Post #SourceDatesAuthorPost
#1SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
EnhSim, DPS simulator

Visit EnhSim Homepage. Please, submit bugs and wishes on the homepage. If you have a problem regarding the sim, please read the FAQ and helps first, before posting here.

Hello everyone, this thread is about my enhancement shaman dps simulator. Until now I've been posting to this [Enhancement Shaman]Yo!? Help me and little bit to this http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t27014-e...ls_discussion/ thread.

My simulator is same style as Yo's(Crazy Shaman's DPS & AEP calculator (c) Yo). Differences:

-Console application. Rar package comes with Windows executable but compiling to other platforms is possible.
-GUI included(Win32) as a front end for the console app. You can still use only the console app if you prefer it that way.
-Config files to save and share your configs with others.
-If wanted, combatlog output to text file.
-Faster, also supports multithreading for even more speed.
-Should be more accurate.
-WotLK mechanics! (not all yet)


Newest version changelog(I won't update this on every update, so check new posts on this thread or the download site)

0.5.7
-GUI is included. You can still use the console version. GUI is actually just front end for enhsim, it generates config file and runs enhsim.exe with it. The GUI uses enhsimgui_config.txt as it's temp config file.
-Buffs in the config file changed to form [value]/[default value]. For example melee_haste_buff 0.0/20.0. It means that buff is off and the "default" or suggested value is 20.0%.
-Fixed potion cooldown. It was 100(!) times shorter than it was supposed to be.


Download:
enhsim - Google Code


It is important to read the config file carefully and don't forget about the comments. Please test this sim and post some feedback, bug reports or wanted features.

Last edited by tukez : 04/11/09 at 9:57 AM. Reason: GUI
#2SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tymir
I've only taken a quick look through the simulator as of yet, but it has been pretty awesome so far.

The only thing I found that wasn't self explanatory/explained in the readme were the EP ranges in the config.txt file. Simulation speeds are very quick and the simulator is simple to use even without the GUI.

About the actual nuts and bolts of the simulator, excuse my ignorance since I'm not an Enhancement Shaman expert but considering the simulator simulates shocks itself what is the point of average_shocks_per_minute in the config file? Is there a way to let the simulator handle assume an ideal DPS priority list and generate this variable by itself?
#3SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Tymir View Post
I've only taken a quick look through the simulator as of yet, but it has been pretty awesome so far.

The only thing I found that wasn't self explanatory/explained in the readme were the EP ranges in the config.txt file. Simulation speeds are very quick and the simulator is simple to use even without the GUI.

About the actual nuts and bolts of the simulator, excuse my ignorance since I'm not an Enhancement Shaman expert but considering the simulator simulates shocks itself what is the point of average_shocks_per_minute in the config file? Is there a way to let the simulator handle assume an ideal DPS priority list and generate this variable by itself?
Thanks for the feedback. To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps. Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

The average_shocks_per_minute actually defines the shock cooldown. 10 shocks per minute, the shock cooldown would be 60/10 = 6 seconds as it should be, but people aren't usually able to achieve that in game. The name might be a little stupid but I think it is easier to approximate how many shocks per minute do you actually do, than how long is the actual cooldown of your shocks + reaction + other factors.

Currently there isn't a way to let the simulator decide the optimal rotation priority. Pitbuller made tests and found out the optimal and that priority is in the default config now. Keep in mind that the optimal rotation might change depending on your gear/play style.
#4SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Chromean
I did 5x5000hours EP simulations and got some pretty strange variations in the values. For example ep for intellect was ranging from 0.80 all the way to 4.01. If you have 3/3 mental dexterity talented, any values under 1.1 shouldn't be possible for intellect if you're using kings, at least in my knowledge. I can upload my config.txt somewhere if you want to have a closer look at it but I'm pretty sure it's filled correctly. I used my current gear as a baseline and switched gems for agility and hit+agility accordingly. I also included the extra attack power from agility and intellect in the current ap value.

Stats used:
MH/OH speed 2.50
MH/OH dps 103.0
Melee crit 29.32%
Melee hit 13.06%
Expertise 83
ap 2253
haste 4.63%
ignore_armor 630
str 215
agi 429
int 141
spellpower 751
spell_crit 17.99%
spell_hit 16.35%

Anyway good to see that someone is working on a simulator with 3.0 in mind and I hope it turns out well.
#5SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Shokkina
It would be nice to add a sort of convertion to the sim to get 3.0 stats for people that cannot access to beta. I cannot use the sim properly because i don't know how much crit from agi/ crit - hit from rating for spells i will get with 3.0

Last edited by Shokkina : 08/30/08 at 10:47 AM.
#6SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Originally Posted by Shokkina View Post
It would be nice to add a sort of convertion to the sim to get 3.0 stats for people that cannot access to beta. I cannot use the sim properly because i don't know how much crit from agi/ crit - hit from rating for spells i will get with 3.0
The entire list of these values, interpolated out to level 80, are pretty easy to locate both here on EJ and through google.

Tried to compile this on OSX 10.5.4, the zthread library failed on the Make. Anyone on a mac been able to use this?

Last edited by Malan : 08/30/08 at 12:03 PM.
#7SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Chromean View Post
I did 5x5000hours EP simulations and got some pretty strange variations in the values. For example ep for intellect was ranging from 0.80 all the way to 4.01. If you have 3/3 mental dexterity talented, any values under 1.1 shouldn't be possible for intellect if you're using kings, at least in my knowledge. I can upload my config.txt somewhere if you want to have a closer look at it but I'm pretty sure it's filled correctly. I used my current gear as a baseline and switched gems for agility and hit+agility accordingly. I also included the extra attack power from agility and intellect in the current ap value.
Thanks for testing. Could you post the config and specific instructions what did you do to get the wierd behaviour? It would help to determine is it a bug and what is the bug about. You can also send it to my email, which you find in the readme.
#8SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
The entire list of these values, interpolated out to level 80, are pretty easy to locate both here on EJ and through google.

Tried to compile this on OSX 10.5.4, the zthread library failed on the Make. Anyone on a mac been able to use this?
So you tried to make a static library out of zthread? You could post the error messages here and maybe me or someone else can tell something about it.
#9SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Chromean
I sent the config file to your e-mail. First I filled the config file up with my stats and raidbuffs and after that I ran start_simulation a few times before running start_ep_calculation. Just getting pretty weird results, hope it helps.
#10SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Impara
Ancestral knowledge is listed as a 0/3 talent in line with the blue poster's beta patch notes but the talent calculators all show 0/5. Not being in the beta I don't know which is correct but I thought it would be worth flagging.

EDIT Having looked at the code more I assume this is purely cosmetic.

Last edited by Impara : 08/30/08 at 3:09 PM.
#11SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hidden
Using the standard 5000h simulation time gives very inexact values for me:
    Stat      | Simulation 1 | Simulation 2 | Simulation 3 | Simulation 4
    AP        | 1            | 1            | 1            | 1
    Crit      | 2.26         | 2.80         | 1.37         | 3.61
    Hit       | 4.19         | 5.17         | 3.50         | 4.33
    Expertise | -1.10        | -1.23        | -1.99        | 0.05
    Haste     | 1.77         | 2.15         | 1.02         | 2.59
    ArPen     | 0.28         | 0.55         | 0.08         | 0.26
    +Dmg      | 0.73         | 1.00         | 0.27         | 0.96
    Agi       | 2.62         | 3.49         | 2.22         | 3.43
    Int       | 1.81         | 2.15         | 0.64         | 2.11
Seems to be very inexact for 50,000 hours as well as I'm getting a value of 0.65 for Expertise there while already being overcapped.

Last edited by Hidden : 08/30/08 at 5:24 PM.
#12SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Impara View Post
Ancestral knowledge is listed as a 0/3 talent in line with the blue poster's beta patch notes but the talent calculators all show 0/5. Not being in the beta I don't know which is correct but I thought it would be worth flagging.

EDIT Having looked at the code more I assume this is purely cosmetic.
Yes you are right on both. It seems it should be 5 point talent, I will fix this for the next version. Yes..it's only cosmetic, just change it in config file to x/5 or you can even use 5/3 or whatever you like.
#13SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3annihilate
have you done a sim to show useing flame tongue on off hand with fast weapon sence a lot of people keep talking about there doing more dps in beta that way or that they just think they are?
#14SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Ok, this one is for Hidden and Chromean. Actually, this is for everyone who uses the EP calculation system.

I did some testing with Chromeans config and I came to conclusion that the sim is working right. The problem lies in the big variance it is giving and that is the result of all random procs, trinkets, flurry, elemental devastation etc. As everyone knows, 2 random procs can give very different results depending on do they happen at the same time or different times, even if the uptimes are exactly the same. If they happen at the same time, resulting DPS is higher than if they happend at different times. And as the number of random procs go up, the variance increase is not linear, it is more like exponential.

As the DPS has increased a lot, you should also increase the EP ranges. Now that is a bad thing, because I think the optimal EP ranges are an amount, which one item can increase one stat. This method should give quite accurate EP values if calculated after every item change. Anyway, I had to up the EP ranges to these values to get some meaningful results:

ep_ap				300
ep_crit_rating			100
ep_hit_rating			140
ep_expertise			5 //not rating
ep_haste_rating			200
ep_armor_ignore			600
ep_spellpower			300
ep_agility			120
ep_intelligence			200
As you see, the expertise is still low. Otherwise it would go over the cap and give weird results. Also the hit rating is questionable as with Chromeans config, spell hit will hit the cap sooner than melee hit. I was trying to get the total DPS difference to match about 180, which is 5% from the baseline total DPS.

Also the 5000 simulation time is not nearly enough for EP value calculations with these number of random procs. I honestly don't know what is enough, it kind of depends on the config I think. In test, I used 10000 hours and EP value difference between 2 tests was maximum of 0.12. Except with expertise(got 2.07 and 2.79), which was expected with too low EP range.

So the advice is to up the simulation time and up the EP ranges, but watch the expertise and hit cap.
#15SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by annihilate View Post
have you done a sim to show useing flame tongue on off hand with fast weapon sence a lot of people keep talking about there doing more dps in beta that way or that they just think they are?
No, I have not. You are able to do that yourself with the sim.
#16SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.4.9

0.4.9
-Fixed spell gcd haste. Mongoose, flurry etc were also affecting spell gcd.
-Ancestral Knowledge fixed to 5 point talent.
-EP value calculation also shows baseline total DPS and DPS difference with every test.

DPS difference on EP value calculation is supposed to help to decide the correct EP ranges.

enhsim - Google Code
#17SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
So you tried to make a static library out of zthread? You could post the error messages here and maybe me or someone else can tell something about it.
after doing ./configure (10.5.4)

kyle:ZThread-2.3.2 Administrator$ make
Making all in src
make  all-recursive
Making all in .
if /bin/sh ../libtool --mode=compile g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I. -I../include   -g -O2 -Wall -DNDEBUG  -g -O2 -Wall -DNDEBUG -MT AtomicCount.lo -MD -MP -MF ".deps/AtomicCount.Tpo" \
	  -c -o AtomicCount.lo `test -f 'AtomicCount.cxx' || echo './'`AtomicCount.cxx; \
	then mv -f ".deps/AtomicCount.Tpo" ".deps/AtomicCount.Plo"; \
	else rm -f ".deps/AtomicCount.Tpo"; exit 1; \
	fi
 g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I. -I../include -g -O2 -Wall -DNDEBUG -g -O2 -Wall -DNDEBUG -MT AtomicCount.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/AtomicCount.Tpo -c AtomicCount.cxx  -fno-common -DPIC -o .libs/AtomicCount.o
../include/zthread/Guard.h: In destructor 'ZThread::Guard<LockType, LockingPolicy>::~Guard()':
../include/zthread/Guard.h:494: error: there are no arguments to 'isDisabled' that depend on a template parameter, so a declaration of 'isDisabled' must be available
../include/zthread/Guard.h:494: error: (if you use '-fpermissive', G++ will accept your code, but allowing the use of an undeclared name is deprecated)
make[3]: *** [AtomicCount.lo] Error 1
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all] Error 2
make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
kyle:ZThread-2.3.2 Administrator$
#18SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by bobxii View Post
after doing ./configure (10.5.4)
../include/zthread/Guard.h:494: error: (if you use '-fpermissive', G++ will accept your code, but allowing the use of an undeclared name is deprecated)
Seems like the zthread is not following the C++ standard or something. So try to build with that -fpermissive flag.
#19SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
../include/zthread/Guard.h:494: error: (if you use '-fpermissive', G++ will accept your code, but allowing the use of an undeclared name is deprecated)
Seems like the zthread is not following the C++ standard or something. So try to build with that -fpermissive flag.


I did that as well ( assuming it's $ make -fpermissive or $ make --fpermissive (on another computer atm, can't remember :P )). Zthreads is (insofar as I have seen from google) a relatively unsupported library; is it required for the program to run or just for the multithread capability ?
#20SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by bobxii View Post
is it required for the program to run or just for the multithread capability ?
It is your lucky day.



0.5.4
-EP test with hit rating or expertise will be skipped, if over the cap.
-combat_length added to config. This will determine the potion cooldown.
-Buff system revamped to WoW 3.0 mechanics.
-Multiple Drums of Battle removed. Drums now have 2min cooldown.
-When compiling to other platforms, it is possible to define NOTHREADS to exclude ZThreads(multithreading) usage.

enhsim - Google Code


In the default config, all the buffs are unused. Give me some suggestions for default buffs.
#21SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Raut
Originally Posted by bobxii View Post
I did that as well ( assuming it's $ make -fpermissive or $ make --fpermissive (on another computer atm, can't remember :P )). Zthreads is (insofar as I have seen from google) a relatively unsupported library; is it required for the program to run or just for the multithread capability ?
Not sure what platform you're trying to do this on, but given some *nix you should set CCFLAGS or CXXFLAGS.

export CCFLAGS="-fpermissive"

Do this before running make.

Last edited by Raut : 09/03/08 at 4:31 AM.
#22SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Krish
Would someone be so kind as to write out a straightforward, step-by-step instruction set for compiling this on a Mac? I could likely muddle through and figure it out on my own, but most people probably won't. Much appreciated.
#23SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.5.7

0.5.7
-GUI is included. You can still use the console version. GUI is actually just front end for enhsim, it generates config file and runs enhsim.exe with it. The GUI uses enhsimgui_config.txt as it's temp config file.
-Buffs in the config file changed to form [value]/[default value]. For example melee_haste_buff 0.0/20.0. It means that buff is off and the "default" or suggested value is 20.0%.
-Fixed potion cooldown. It was 100(!) times shorter than it was supposed to be.

enhsim - Google Code


Yeah, GUI included. The GUI is not very intelligent when it comes to inputting invalid data, so keep that in mind.

Sorry about the potion cooldown .
#24SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xieon
Trying to run 'enhsimgui' gives the following error:

'This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem.'

Windows XP Pro
#25SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Xieon View Post
Trying to run 'enhsimgui' gives the following error:

'This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem.'

Windows XP Pro
So it obviously needs some DLLs or something. I'll investigate some more...
#26SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
So I did my research and I think you need to install this package:

Download details: Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable Package (x86)

Tell me if it works.
#27SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3hozzer
I had the same error and this package fixed it. Thanks!
#28SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Nice to see the gui there, it's looking really sweet.

2 Suggestions though:

Is it possible to include a standard of boss values, perhaps from a dropdown box, maybe even with example bosses with said values (KJ has low armor for example)? Would be nice to not have to set this.

Same goes for a "standard" enha raid talent set. I realise the community has not produced a "cookie cutter" spec yet, but alot of enhancement talents are stable, and would always be chosen, going through 20 dropdown boxes every time would be a nice thing to not have to do
#29SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Bellante View Post
Nice to see the gui there, it's looking really sweet.

2 Suggestions though:

Is it possible to include a standard of boss values, perhaps from a dropdown box, maybe even with example bosses with said values (KJ has low armor for example)? Would be nice to not have to set this.

Same goes for a "standard" enha raid talent set. I realise the community has not produced a "cookie cutter" spec yet, but alot of enhancement talents are stable, and would always be chosen, going through 20 dropdown boxes every time would be a nice thing to not have to do
Can do. Although didn't you notice that you can save/load configs with it too? Also it should load the last used config on start, at least is works on my machine.
#30SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Nope, doesn't load up the previous one on my pc, I'm afraid.
#31SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Bellante View Post
Nope, doesn't load up the previous one on my pc, I'm afraid.
Did you actually save the config or load some config? If I remember correct, otherwise it should not load the last config.
#32SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Melee crits agains lvl 73 bosses suffer 0.6% penalty am I right? What about spell crits?

Secondly, people could post some suggestions about different rotation logic. Like cast LvB only if 1 FS tick left, cast LvB only if ED is down or x seconds is left, otherwise cast LB. Something like that. I could also make those options changeable, I just need to know what all those options are.
#33SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sydane
Spell crits suffer crit depression that to my knowledge has never been clearly explained or modeled. Basically, you never see your theoretical crit rate in the long term, it is always noticeably lower. This may be due in part or whole to spell casts being a on a two roll system. As a result, a sim is probably always going to overestimate the actual spell damage you would see in an ingame encounter. It's possible that along with the changes such as the removal of the 1% miss that spells will get moved to the same type of single roll, logical methodology as melee is, but at this point I don't know that it is even possible to model.

Spells also suffer from partial resists, which according to threads like Some partials resistances studies causes a reduction of roughly 6% of your total damage.
#34SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.6.4

0.6.4
-EP tests agility and intelligence removed. Crit rating test is now divided in physical and spell crit. Agility and intelligence are calculated from those two crit values taking into account the ap value.
-Maelstrom Weapon is used after last event in a tick. This is to prevent using Maelstrom Weapon in between crits during the same tick, which is impossible for human player.
-Fixed Flame Shock coefficients to 21% direct damage and 39% overall dots.
-Fixed Spice Hot Talbuk to affect searing totem hit too.
-Changed rotation priority system to more dynamic. Now you can choose how many slots do you have in your rotation.
-maelstrom_weapon config option removed. That is now integrated in the rotation priority system.
-5 new options to control rotations.

enhsim - Google Code


GUI layout starts to be a little crowded. I might have to divide it in two or more tabs. I also changed the GUI background color, in my opinion it is now bit more neutral to look. Also added the info box as you might notice. It currently tells if hit/expertise is going over the cap.
#35SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
I ran the sim for my expected setup after 3.0 and I thought I'd post my results to get some more variety going. In particular, with 178 hit rating on my current gear, that comes out to 14.1% spell hit unbuffed and with the spell hit debuff of 3%, that puts me just over the spell hit cap. This obviously diminishes the value of hit, so I figured others might be interested to see what the EP's look like in such a case. I converted all STR on gems to AGI, but the crit/ap numbers are napkin math since I'm not in beta and I couldn't find the baseline offsets. Here's the EP results and config from a sim at 100,000 hours. I reduced the EP range on values that can cap drastically(2 exp and 25 hit) and increased the sim time in hopes of more accurate numbers. These results are all pretty close to the average of the 10,000hr runs I had done, so I'm fairly confidant in their stability.
EP                  value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                2485.10
ap                  1         0.44      2616.76        131.66
crit rating         2.80      1.23      2608.05        122.94
hit rating          1.20      0.53      2498.32        13.21
expertise rating    1.82      0.80      2490.70        5.60
haste rating        1.08      0.48      2580.27        95.16
armor ignore        0.26      0.11      2552.44        67.34
spellpower          0.86      0.38      2598.42        113.32
strength            1.10
agility             2.51      1.10      2617.34        132.24
intelligence        1.51      0.66      2617.75        132.65
As for raid buffs, I included everything that I'm likely to get in a 3.0 BT raid based on our guild's typical makeup today.
simulation_time                 100000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2

ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   25
ep_expertise                    2
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_ignore                 600
ep_spellpower                   300
ep_agility                      120
ep_intelligence                 200

mh_speed                        2.50
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          103.0
oh_dps                          103.0
mh_crit                         28.2
oh_crit                         28.2
mh_hit                          11.29
oh_hit                          11.29
mh_expertise_rating             44
oh_expertise_rating             44
ap                              2069
haste                           2.79
ignore_armor                    126
str                             167
agi                             499
int                             213
spellpower                      620
spell_crit                      15.6
spell_hit                       14.1

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        dragonspine_trophy
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

average_shocks_per_minute       10.0
maelstrom_weapon                lb

rotation_priority1              mw
rotation_priority2              fs
rotation_priority3              ss
rotation_priority4              es
rotation_priority5              ls

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

stormstrike_cooldown            8.00
stormstrike_nature_damage_buff  0.00
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1

flurry                          5/5
ancestral_knowledge             5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
weapon_mastery                  5/5
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
improved_shields                0/3
static_shock                    1/3
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
elemental_fury                  0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
potion                          -
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       -
What I also wanted to share, and see if others could do so as well, was the dps breakdown for this setup. Is this typical of what others are seeing? White dps is down to 35%, so with yellows and spells capped, hit drops off to a pretty low value as seen above.
flurry uptime                  94.87%
unleashed rage uptime          99.91%
elemental devastation uptime   69.26%

mh enchant uptime              36.59%
oh enchant uptime              32.57%
trinket1 uptime                26.52%
trinket2 uptime                39.70%
totem uptime                   66.61%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

white dps               886.45           35.79%
wf dps                  524.18           21.16%
ft dps                  0.00             0.00%
ss dps                  167.69           6.77%
searing totem dps       161.24           6.51%
earth shock dps         113.72           4.59%
flame shock dps         141.18           5.70%
frost shock dps         0.00             0.00%
lava burst dps          0.00             0.00%
lightning bolt dps      454.86           18.36%
lightning shield dps    27.70            1.12%
DPS                     2477.01
Thanks for the GUI btw Tukez, it certainly makes things easier.

edit: And just as I post this, tukez posts an update. I'll play with it some more and see if anything major changes.
#36SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Sim look very good now.
Time to start solve best dps spec for 70lvl when first patch hits.
I made new config file(check below post) clean numbers and basic rounding used. Let's keep gear simple. Gear level is sunwell. The point is use baseline gear plus baseline spec with additinal 19 point left to use to achieve best dps build and rotation.


- Baseline dps was 2670.
- Try to get best possible dps without changing stats or buffs.
- Don't remove any points from baseline spec. You still have 19 point to use anywhere yuo want.
- You can play with rotation. But don't use anything what you can't with yuor spec at 70lvl.
- You can change off-hand speed to 2.6 and use windfury if you think it's beats 1.3speed and flametongue.
- When you find the best build and rotation use least 10k hours to calculate dps.
- average_shocks_per_minute 10.00 line indicate what is CD of shocks. If you have 5/5 reverberation use 12.00.
- Bolding indicate that those are lines what you use to tune dps.

We can't determine dps per talent point abefore we have found best rotation. But best rotation depends what talent points was used. So we need find best combination of those now.

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2

ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   150
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_ignore                 600
ep_spellpower                   300

mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        1.3
mh_dps                          110.0
oh_dps                          110.0
mh_crit                         30.0
oh_crit                         30.0
mh_hit                          10.0
oh_hit                          10.0
mh_expertise_rating             110.0
oh_expertise_rating             110.0
ap                              2000
haste                           6.47
ignore_armor                    500
str                             100
agi                             400
int                             300
spellpower                      560
spell_crit                      20
spell_hit                       14.00

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        berserkers_call
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

average_shocks_per_minute       10.00
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              mw_lb
rotation_priority2              ss
rotation_priority3              fs
rotation_priority4              es
rotation_priority5              ls

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

stormstrike_cooldown            10.00
stormstrike_nature_damage_buff  0.00
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1

flurry                          5/5
ancestral_knowledge             3/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
weapon_mastery                  5/5
dual_wield_specialization       0/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
improved_shields                0/3
static_shock                    0/3
concussion                      0/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           0/3
elemental_fury                  0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          381/381
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       drums_of_battle
Edit: You can take points out of weapon mastery too if it feel right.
Edit2: 3080dps is best what I have got now. So aim higher. I will post results when I have tested more.
Edit3: Off-han weapon speed was mistake. I need to farm []. Look like it's gonna be best weapon choice.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/07/08 at 8:20 AM.
#37SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Skiace
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
- You can change off-hand speed to 2.6 and use windfury if you think it's beats 1.3speed and flametongue.
Right now you have the baseline set to a 110.0 dps weapon at 1.3 speed, but this is unrealistic if you're looking at level 70 dps/gear even after 3.0.

The highest dps 1.3 speed weapon is [] at 87.3

Why don't you use 107.9 dps for both hands since that is the value of mounting vengeance and s4 weapons? I understand the attempt to just use round numbers for simplicity, but in the case of the offhand it is a pretty big fudge to throw in a 110 dps 1.3 and show that as proof of FT's superiority. At least change the offhand speed to 1.4, since that would include the s4 dagger.

EDIT: Best I've done so far with the 1.3 OH is 3084 dps with this spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Giving up MW for Reverb seems like a clear loss of ~500dps. The rest was just playing with variations between DW spec, imp SS, Static Shock, and Call of Flame. Most interesting bit was that with the fast offhand, 3/3 Static Shock is better than 1/3 SS and 2/2 imp Stormstrike, but with the 2.6 and WF, they come out about even. The 1.3 OH looks to have about a 130dps edge on 2.6, but if you drop to 1.4 the edge is only ~80dps.

EDIT2: Based on Tukez post below, these results are pretty worthless. I'll try the excersize again once he feels he's fixed the issues.

Last edited by Skiace : 09/07/08 at 6:02 AM.
#38SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dsalt
I havent actually tested your sim yet so im not sure if you have allready included it but dont forget to add Skullfish Soup (20 crit rating) which should be the best food buff and Elixir of Draenic Wisdom (guardian elixir) so you can still use Elixir of Major Agility. I guess im stating the obvious but if we are looking for the highest dps possible those should be the baseline.
#39SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Hey people, I just noticed when doing the mana calculations, that Lightning Bolt is using way too high base damage. I don't know where did I get that one but I've fixed it for the next version.

Other mentions is about Static shock. It is proccing from Windfury currently, so I'll fix that one too.

Originally Posted by Dsalt View Post
I havent actually tested your sim yet so im not sure if you have allready included it but dont forget to add Skullfish Soup (20 crit rating) which should be the best food buff and Elixir of Draenic Wisdom (guardian elixir) so you can still use Elixir of Major Agility. I guess im stating the obvious but if we are looking for the highest dps possible those should be the baseline.
I will add the Skullfish Soup, but I'm lazy to add another potion slot, so you can just add the extra ap manually.
#40SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.7.6

0.7.6
-Lightning Bolt mana cost changed to 10%.

0.7.5
-Fixed Elemental Precision to add 1/2/3% hit.
-EnhSim now simulates also the MPS or mana usage. base_mana added to config.
-You can see (procs/uses) per minute in the statistics.
-Flametongue stats are now also properly recorded.
-Added Call of Thunder talent.
-Added Shamanistic Focus talent.
-Added Convection talent.
-Added Elemental Focus talent.
-Changed Mental Quickness talent to affect mana usage.
-Config file is closed as soons as it is read, instead of closing it at the end of application. This allows to run multiple simulations simultaneously from the GUI.
-Fixed Lightning Bolt base damage to 603.
-Added Skullfish Soup.
-Fixed Elixir of the Mongoose and Elixir of Major Agility also affect spell crit.
-Fixed Static Shock to not proc on Windfury.
-BestDpsBuild.txt added to package. This is supposed to be the best dps spec with baseline gear(sunwell). I'll update this as theorycrafters do their job .

enhsim - Google Code



These are the mana costs I use, please check are they right:

Stormstrike 8%
Earth Shock 23%
Flame Shock 17%
Frost Shock 18%
Lava Burst 22%
Lightning Bolt 10%


One more thing. I don't model the durations of Shamanistic Focus and Elemental Focus, because it is virtually impossible with any sane rotation for them to fade.
#41SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Tukez do flametongue weapon give passive spell damage bonus? I s 96 spell piower at level right value?
#42SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Tukez do flametongue weapon give passive spell damage bonus? I s 96 spell piower at level right value?
No it does not. I will fix this to the next version, meanwhile just put it manually. Btw, does the flametongue spellpower stack with 2 flametongues? Are there any other changes to flametongue in 3.0?
#43SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Skiace
In the new version (after the LB fix) I'm now finding that a slow offhand with WF is much more competitive with the fast FT. The inflated LB numbers must have favored the faster MW stacking of a fast offhand. I'm seeing WF with a slight 30dps edge over FT using a 1.4 speed OH, but they are tied using a 1.3 for FT.

I'm also still seeing Reverb still not worth giving up MW even with reduced LB damage. Best I've done thus far is ~2530dps in this version of the sim.

edit: Wowwiki says base mana should be 2678 for all 70 shaman regardless of race.

edit2: The best build I could come up with for this sim included 1 point in static shock and valued this at ~15-20dps. Hopefully Feral Spirit is worth more than this (it needs to be if it's going to be worth shit in PvE), thus the best build at 70 wouldn't bother with static shock.

Last edited by Skiace : 09/07/08 at 5:31 PM.
#44SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Sorry
Am I doing this right?
I downloaded v0.7.6, I open enhsimgui.exe and load bestdpsbuild.
Then I change talents to this.
OH speed to 1.3, dps to 87, add 96 to spellpower for flametongue, trinkets to shard of contempt / Crusade Card, 10k hours and simulate.
Results in 3061.70dps at 119.55mps

Last edited by Sorry : 09/07/08 at 7:55 PM.
#45SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Skiace
Originally Posted by Sorry View Post
Am I doing this right?
I downloaded v0.7.6, I open enhsimgui.exe and load bestdpsbuild.
Then I change talents to this.
OH speed to 1.3, dps to 87, add 96 to spellpower for flametongue, 10k hours and simulate.
Results in 2991.58dps at 122.19mps
I think i was missing some buffs before, cause I'm able to reproduce your results now. I also tried changing the OH to 110dps and 1.4 speed, and this was a LOSS of 8dps. This suggests the kind of dependence on weapon speed that we've seen in the past for WF, and is clearly not what we'd like to see in the future.

Changeing to a slow offhand with WF was about a 2-3% dps loss, much closer than in the last version of the sim. This is encouraging, but considering the FT speed interaction I noted, I feel like FT really isn't working as intended right now. A 1.3 offhand improves MW dps by 30% over a 2.6 right now. That's a big boost.

edit: Also, if we're trying to compare specs based on the Bestdpsbuild.txt, lets not change any of the trinkets. I was able to get 2998dps with the build you linked without changing trinkets.

Last edited by Skiace : 09/07/08 at 8:22 PM.
#46SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Sorry View Post
Am I doing this right?
I downloaded v0.7.6, I open enhsimgui.exe and load bestdpsbuild.
Then I change talents to this.
OH speed to 1.3, dps to 87, add 96 to spellpower for flametongue, trinkets to shard of contempt / Crusade Card, 10k hours and simulate.
Results in 3061.70dps at 119.55mps
Bet you didn't remember to take off the passive bonus of Berserker's Call.
#47SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
Changeing to a slow offhand with WF was about a 2-3% dps loss, much closer than in the last version of the sim. This is encouraging, but considering the FT speed interaction I noted, I feel like FT really isn't working as intended right now. Either that, or MW needs to proc off of WF in order to make slow weapons competitive. A 1.3 offhand improves MW dps by 30% over a 2.6 right now. That's a big boost.
In the sim MW procs from WF too. It should not?
#48SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Skiace
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
In the sim MW procs from WF too. It should not?
Ah, sorry I missread your changelog (read SS-WF proc line as MW-WF). Someone in the Wrath thread mentioned that it doesn't proc off WF in the latest build, but WF is also broken so I'd presume that's unintended.

Considering it is procing off WF in the sim, then I'm even more suspect of the behavior of FT and fast weapons. An 87dps weapons should NEVER outperform a 110 dps weapon based on speed alone.

EDIT: To further illustrate the point, right now I'm seeing [] within 0.5% of a new fast weapon out of Naxx 10: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...0_loot_018.jpg

The 143dps @1.6 manages to beat the 45dps @1.3, but just barely. If the sim is accurately reflecting FT and MW behavior, we need to make some noise about it.

EDIT2: Also seeing that dual wielding [] is not as good as Slow/Fast, but it's better than Slow/Slow right now. If the sim is accurate, this is broken behavior in my opinion.

Last edited by Skiace : 09/07/08 at 8:45 PM.
#49SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Maelstrom is just bugged or something in Beta, it hasn't proced off Windfury crits since it was implemented. I would leave the sim as is, my assumption is that its going to be fixed in the next shaman round.
#50SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
The 143dps @1.6 manages to beat the 45dps @1.3, but just barely. If the sim is accurately reflecting FT and MW behavior, we need to make some noise about it.
People might want to print out a combatlog from the sim and see if they can find something fishy in there.

I'll double check couple of mechanics, especially flametongue. I think I'll also do some tests with lag. I think it would favor slower weapons, but it probably wouldn't do much about the problem, that crappy 1.3 dagger is better than a good 1.5 dagger.
#51SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Off-hand weapon dps ep is allways been very small. Around 3.5ep with 2.6s and Wf. With 1.3s and Ft it's only 2.2ep. Now it's actual so small that if we see fast one-hand caster weapon we could use it and dps will go up. Caster weapon dps also scale in wrath. [Cudgel of Saronity Justice]


Edit: I think it's just oversight and gonna be fixed.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/08/08 at 4:15 AM.
#52SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Off-hand weapon dps ep is allways been very small. Around 3.5ep with 2.6s and Wf. With 1.3s and Ft it's only 2.2ep. Now it's actual so small that if we see fast one-hand caster weapon we could use it and dps will go up. Caster weapon dps also scale in wrath. [Cudgel of Saronity Justice]
I thought caster weapons were all supposed to be Main-Hand only. Is this weapon an oversight or are many caster weapons in Wrath One-Hand?
#53SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Another discovery:
I tested new naxx weapons and 1.8s caster weapon destroy 2.6s melee weapon in mainhand. Gap was over 150dps. Dps was same with douple flametongue or windfury/flametongue.

I also tested TBC weapons: [] and [] was pretty much par. Melee weapon win when calculted extra melee stats.

Spell damage potential is quite big now.


Edit: That's bug only lower ft/ft dps. But Wf/ft with caster weapon was same amount dps boost. So caster weapon still look like a viable choice.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/08/08 at 9:06 AM.
#54SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Another discovery:
I tested new naxx weapons and 1.8s caster weapon destroy 2.6s melee weapon in mainhand. Gap was over 150dps. Dps was same with douple flametongue or windfury/flametongue.

I also tested TBC weapons: [] and [] was pretty much par. Melee weapon win when calculted extra melee stats.

Spell damage potential is quite big now.
Be advised that I just discovered MH Flametongue bug which causes it to proc on OH attacks, not MH(good old copy&paste). So if you have ft/ft and faster weapon in off hand it will result in more DPS than it supposed to give.
#55SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.7.7

0.7.7
-Stormstrike PPM statistic is now a accurate. It shows the PPM of casts.
-Fixed MH flametongue bug.
-Flametongue now gives 96 spellpower.
-Option to use searing totem approximation removed.

enhsim - Google Code


The reason I removed the Searing Totem approximation is, that it just wasn't accurate anymore. That is because of the overall increase in spell damage, after I made that approximation.

I tried different event systems in hope of making it faster, but seems like my old system is still faster than heaps etc. Maybe I'll try to make up something faster by modifying my system, because I am not satisfied with speed currently. On my computer it is about 2400000 times normal. Used to be a lot more...oh well, that happens when you add a bunch of new procs.
#56SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Sim looks great. One quick question. Any reason that Reverberation talent is not included as an option to test its effects?
#57SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Sim looks great. One quick question. Any reason that Reverberation talent is not included as an option to test its effects?
From the config file:

average_shocks_per_minute	 10.0	//for example, put to 10.0 to have shock cooldown of 6 seconds
You can try bit more different rotations with this setting.
Example Fs, SS, LvB was suggested before anyone tested it with sim. It's very bad low dps rotion but without simulator it looked good and easy rotation. If there was just Reverberation talent to calculate shock cooldown you couldn't set this rotation for sim.

Reverberation is about 0.5% dps per talent point.




Mana usage and how we can handle it:

With this build at 70lvl base rotation mana usage is around 13k. Totem droppin cost 39% of base mana this is 1044mana. We can expect 6k buffed mana pool at least.(Elixir of Major Agility + Elixir of Draenic Wisdom). If we expected get free mana bar every time shamanist rage is up this leave only (105/120 * 14000) - 6000 =~ 6000 mana negative. Jow is 4% of total mana, 100% proc and 4s Cd. If we get proc least one time per 5s this give us 5040mana. Now we are at negative 1000 mana. Mana spring give us 50mp5 * 21 = 1050mana. We can sustain basic rotation + totems infinite even without replenish effect or other outside mana sources.


Edit: Levva it's work just like you want. Just use reverse math.
0/5 = 120 / (6.0 + lag)
1/5 = 120 / (5.8 + lag)
2/5 = 120 / (5.6 + lag)
3/5 = 120 / (5.4 + lag)
4/5 = 120 / (5.2 + lag)
5/5 = 120 / (5.0 + lag)

Shock per minute don't actual tell how many shock sim use per minute. It's tell to sim what is max number per minute what is same as shock cd. If shock priority is set low then sim use far less shock than you have actual inputted.

Example with this config;
...
average_shocks_per_minute       10.00
...
stormstrike_cooldown            9.00
...
rotation_priority1              mw_lb
rotation_priority2              ss
rotation_priority3              fs
rotation_priority4              es
rotation_priority5              ls
Sim used only 9.9741 shock per minute not 10.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/09/08 at 9:41 AM.
#58SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
So the new GUI front end is windows only?
#59SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
From the config file:

average_shocks_per_minute	 10.0	//for example, put to 10.0 to have shock cooldown of 6 seconds
You can try bit more different rotations with this setting.
Example Fs, SS, LvB was suggested before anyone tested it with sim. It's very bad low dps rotion but without simulator it looked good and easy rotation. If there was just Reverberation talent to calculate shock cooldown you couldn't set this rotation for sim.

Reverberation is about 0.5% dps per talent point.
Yes but it was also said that you change "average_shocks_per_minute" to reflect a deal of reality on how many shocks you can realistically get with latency, reaction times etc. ie: the AVERAGE not the IDEAL shocks per minute. Surely that is independent of the duration of the shock cooldown. I would have thought that the sim could easily include when a shock was off cooldown. At present without knowing the Reverberation value it cannot know the CD time period thus cannot simulate its impact.

I would think that it would make the sim easier to use to include a 5 pt Reverberation drop down and a warning if the "average_shocks_per_minute" was impossible given Reverberation. eg: 10.1 shocks per minute is impossible with 0/5 Reverberation. The max value with 5/5 Reverberation would be 12.0 shocks per minute.

My thought is that aside from any DPS increase it MIGHT be that offsetting the shock CD by 0.2 sec or 0.4 sec etc may open up extra GCDs or stagger timings sufficiently to prove useful. The only real way to tell is via a sim. If the sim doesn't support that you cannot tell.
#60SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Yes but it was also said that you change "average_shocks_per_minute" to reflect a deal of reality on how many shocks you can realistically get with latency, reaction times etc. ie: the AVERAGE not the IDEAL shocks per minute.

...
Maybe I should remove the average_shocks_per_minute and add shock_cooldown. If I implement lag in the sim I can remove the shock_cooldown entirely and add Reverberation. What do you think?

Meanwhile, just to clarify: average_shocks_per_minute sets the shock cooldown. As Pitbuller said, it does not mean that shock is used as soon as the cooldown is ready.
#61SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
So the new GUI front end is windows only?
Yeah. VC++ is the only tool I know how to make GUIs.
#62SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
Bleh. There's no Makefile in the source directory. Can we get that, please? Trying to figure out how to compile this on something else than Wintendo is hard enough.

Question about the source: Where does "Sleep()" come from? Closest hit I know of is sleep(3)
       #include <unistd.h>

       unsigned int sleep(unsigned int seconds);
I had some trouble installing ZThread. It didn't like my environment variables. Solved that by using "CPPFLAGS=-fpermissive" as an option to configure.
#63SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Bleh. There's no Makefile in the source directory. Can we get that, please? Trying to figure out how to compile this on something else than Wintendo is hard enough.

Question about the source: Where does "Sleep()" come from? Closest hit I know of is sleep(3)
       #include <unistd.h>

       unsigned int sleep(unsigned int seconds);
I had some trouble installing ZThread. It didn't like my environment variables. Solved that by using "CPPFLAGS=-fpermissive" as an option to configure.
I build with VC++, so I don't have a Makefile for you. Why don't you use some IDE too which does these things for you?

That Sleep() you can safely remove. It is some legacy stuff left from multithreading testing and I will remove it from the source also.

Remember if you can't get the ZThread working you can disable it by using NOTHREADS define.
#64SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
g++ -pthread -I/usr/local/ZThread/include *.cpp /usr/local/ZThread/lib/libZThread.a -o enhsim
There. I had to check with my coworker since it's ages since I manually handled static libraries. (*sob* NerdRep--)

IDEs are really a matter of taste IMO. I don't see why I would have to get, install and learn one to be able to do the above line. If nothing else, please include it in your compile_instructions as the file is a bit sparse on how to actually compile your program.
#65SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
g++ -pthread -I/usr/local/ZThread/include *.cpp /usr/local/ZThread/lib/libZThread.a -o enhsim
There. I had to check with my coworker since it's ages since I manually handled static libraries. (*sob* NerdRep--)

IDEs are really a matter of taste IMO. I don't see why I would have to get, install and learn one to be able to do the above line. If nothing else, please include it in your compile_instructions as the file is a bit sparse on how to actually compile your program.
You asked for a Makefile, but as you noticed, you don't need one. I don't know what is more simple than to compile *.cpp. Only problem is ZThreads, but it depends on the compiler how to link it in.

I'll include that line as example in the instructions.
#66SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Maybe I should remove the average_shocks_per_minute and add shock_cooldown. If I implement lag in the sim I can remove the shock_cooldown entirely and add Reverberation. What do you think?

Meanwhile, just to clarify: average_shocks_per_minute sets the shock cooldown. As Pitbuller said, it does not mean that shock is used as soon as the cooldown is ready.
My preference would be something that's as close to simulating how the game works in reality as possible. Its not a whole lot of use simulating absolutely perfect conditions (zero lag, instant reaction times). If the sim is able to cope with reaction times & lag as variables, then this would be wonderful as we can simulate how the effect of slow reactions vs faster reactions would improve your dps. ie: you get more skilled at reacting faster and your dps goes up by X%. Similarly its useful to know the effects of lag.

The absolutely ideal world scenario is useful I suspect only at the level of comparison with real world. If for example the sim showed that a 100 ms lag/reaction time favoured a different rotation/setup vs a 0ms lag/reaction time then that would be useful info to know.

It may show a tipping point. ie: at x ms lag you are better switching to ABC setup over XYZ as lag will cause XXXX to give lower dps... etc. Then again it may be a straight line less lag = more dps with one fixed setup/spec. Having the sim provide this info would be ideal.
#67SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
I implemented lag as random time added to cooldowns requiring input, also on global cooldown. Here are the results, you tell me is it worth to have. Quick test shows the speed decrease to be about 5%. Maybe 10%.

Tests were made with the default BestDpsBuild.txt.

#68SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
A very straight line. If you've already implemented the code I'd keep it there and have a default lag parameter of say 50ms or 100ms. There is always going to be some lag. If there is an option then people who want ideal, unachievable dps in their sims can set lag to zero. Those that prefer to see achievable real world values can keep it in. The issue is if blizzard make any changes where the lag becomes a factor if the sim can handle the lag now we can flag that up to them instantly.

I play with usually 150-250 ms lag as normal on my 8Mb ADSL connection, lower than that is very rare. I am aware that Oceanic players often have significantly higher lag.

If the sim can give values we can readily replicate in game it becomes more meaningful, and we can trust the output or even find specific bugs where the real values differ from the sim. If the sim gives values that we never seem to achieve (due to lag) it makes it harder to accept the sim is accurate and harder to notice the more obscure bugs.
#69SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.7.8

0.7.8
-Lag is taken into account. Use lag_min and lag_max to set the lag. It is in milliseconds.

enhsim - Google Code
#70SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Might be a good idea to include threat in the simulation. You would input the TPS the tank does and then we can include Windshock in the rotation.
#71SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Might be a good idea to include threat in the simulation. You would input the TPS the tank does and then we can include Windshock in the rotation.
Very good idea.
Threath might be big problem. I calcuted threath from dps what sim show and it was horrifed 2323. Might be hard find tank who do 2112tps at sunwell level. Tanks get TPS boost but I doubt that it that big.

Ps. I want bloodlust too.
#72SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
I was wondering if there were any plans to intergrate your sim into a Rawr model?

Using their interface to pull info from the Armory on all the items, as well as specifying buffs and debuffs involved, and then inputting it all into your simulator to run the actual numbers?

(sorry if this question is retarded from a technical side, I don't know anything about programming. My main used to be a mage and nothing compared to Rawr.mage for ease of use and I miss it.)

Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Very good idea.
Threath might be big problem. I calcuted threath from dps what sim show and it was horrifed 2323. Might be hard find tank who do 2112tps at sunwell level. Tanks get TPS boost but I doubt that it that big.

Ps. I want bloodlust too.
Tanks are currently running 3-4k tps in the Beta, from what people have posted. Don't forget that they are baking the Salv threat reduction into the tanking abilities.
#73SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Very good idea.
Threath might be big problem. I calcuted threath from dps what sim show and it was horrifed 2323. Might be hard find tank who do 2112tps at sunwell level. Tanks get TPS boost but I doubt that it that big.

Ps. I want bloodlust too.
Ah..yes, I've forgotten about the bloodlust. It is a bit problematic though..I am not sure what to do with the cooldown exaclty. Should people be able to choose from 5 or 10min cd or should it have something to do with the combat length.
#74SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I was wondering if there were any plans to intergrate your sim into a Rawr model?

Using their interface to pull info from the Armory on all the items, as well as specifying buffs and debuffs involved, and then inputting it all into your simulator to run the actual numbers?

(sorry if this question is retarded from a technical side, I don't know anything about programming. My main used to be a mage and nothing compared to Rawr.mage for ease of use and I miss it.)
Well, I think it might be possible to make a GUI in Rawr and then run enhsim.exe from Rawr, like I do it with my GUI. I don't know how to do it with Rawr, though. Rawr is C# which I'm not familiar with and I don't know is there something in Rawr which would make this impossible. I have not even tested Rawr so I don't know much about it.

Maybe someone wants to make better GUI for EnhSim!
#75SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Bloodlust is simple:

One or two shaman?

If one then uptime is (combat length / 10) and then round it up next integer and divide it by combat length - last bloodlust partial loss divided by combat length.

If two then uptime is (combat length / 5) and then round it up next integer and divide it by combat length - last bloodlust partial loss divided by combat length.

Then you can even stack bloodlust with other cooldowns.
#76SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Bloodlust is simple:

One or two shaman?

If one then uptime is (combat length / 10) and then round it up next integer and divide it by combat length - last bloodlust partial loss divided by combat length.

If two then uptime is (combat length / 5) and then round it up next integer and divide it by combat length - last bloodlust partial loss divided by combat length.

Then you can even stack bloodlust with other cooldowns.
What you say? Sorry I don't get it entirely . I'm stupid, explain please. What do I do with uptime? Do I change the duration or the cooldown. Whaaat?
#77SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
The sim won't work with Rawr - the idea behind Rawr is that its providing an interface to a closed form solution. The results are computed 'live', not after running a simulated combat.
#78SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Any chance of an output option that shows an EP string similar to output from Yo's!. Even if it was on the screen in the cmd prompt window it can at least be cut n' paste. Ideally output to file though for import into addons such as EquivalencePoints so you can see the personalised EP values in game on tooltip.
#79SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Artoxia
Did someone already try to calculate EP values for the 3.0 Patch? Today i saw the changes to our T6-Set and i am wondering, if T6 (from MH and BT) could be the best choice after the 3.0 patch !?

Sorry if it is already written down somewhere in the forums, i couldn't find it.
#80SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
Slim chances of that, Artoxia. Strength is subbed with AP so T6 is actually worth less than it is now(given today's EP values). Given the boost in crit, hit and ag, I'd say hunter items will come out on top mixed with rogue loot like today.
#81SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Tukez what cause difference with ep calculation base dps and normal sim run dps.
With same config file ep calculator show 3500dps and sim run give 3053dps.

I made new version of BestDpsBuild.txt but now I can't trust final ep values becouse of that dps differiance.


I changed weapons to [Hand of the Deceiver] and [Brutal Gladiator's Shiv] and corrected spell damage from 560 to 600 and some minor changes. Rotation and build should be now one of the best. Most 0.1% off.
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   150
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_ignore                 600
ep_spellpower                   300

mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          114.4
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         30.0
oh_crit                         30.0
mh_hit                          11.0
oh_hit                          11.0
mh_expertise_rating             110.0
oh_expertise_rating             110.0
ap                              2000
haste                           5
ignore_armor                    500
str                             100
agi                             400
int                             300
spellpower                      600
spell_crit                      20
spell_hit                       14.00
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        berserkers_call
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

average_shocks_per_minute       10.00
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              mw_lb
rotation_priority2              fs
rotation_priority3              ss
rotation_priority4              es
rotation_priority5              ls

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

stormstrike_cooldown            9.00
stormstrike_nature_damage_buff  0.00
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1

flurry                          5/5
ancestral_knowledge             3/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
weapon_mastery                  5/5
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
improved_shields                0/3
static_shock                    2/3
concussion                      5/5
convection                      0/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
call_of_thunder                 0/5
elemental_devastation           3/3
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          381/381
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       drums_of_battle
Can you Tukez add this version to next version.
#82SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
What you say? Sorry I don't get it entirely . I'm stupid, explain please. What do I do with uptime? Do I change the duration or the cooldown. Whaaat?
As far as I have understood it, Bloodlust has been changed to be raid wide, but leaves a 5 minute debuff after the effect runs out during which a person can't be affected by Bloodlust. Or in other words, if you have at least 2 shamans, you'll have a Bloodlust cast every 5 minutes and 40 seconds.
#83SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Tukez what cause difference with ep calculation base dps and normal sim run dps.
With same config file ep calculator show 3500dps and sim run give 3053dps.
I'll investigate this.
#84SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
EnhSim 0.7.9

0.7.9
-Flametongue bug fixed. It was giving multiple times the spellpower depending on the number of simulations/threads.
-Internal event system changes. Expect a slight speed increase.
-BestDpsBuild.txt updated.

enhsim - Google Code


Fortunately the bug was a trivial one.

Last edited by tukez : 09/10/08 at 10:56 AM.
#85SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.8.0

0.8.0
-Flametongue bug also fixed for MH Flametongue, ouch.

enhsim - Google Code

Yeah, event that trivial bug was too much for me
#86SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Ep values at 70lvl after spell hit and exptertice cap with best dps spec and rotation. Using bestDpsBuild.txt config. High sunwell gear level.

EP                  value     DPS       total DPS      difference
baseline                                2986.53
ap                  1         0.57      3157.99        171.46
crit rating         2.40      1.37      3123.42        136.89
hit rating          1.74      0.99      3135.35        148.82
expertise rating    0
haste rating        2.08      1.19      3223.92        237.39
armor ignore        0.21      0.12      3057.72        71.19
spellpower          1.15      0.66      3183.36        196.83
strength            1.10
agility             2.23
intelligence        1.34
elapsed simulation time: 120000.00h
elapsed real time: 617.53s
simulation speed: 699560x
#87SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
The sim won't work with Rawr - the idea behind Rawr is that its providing an interface to a closed form solution. The results are computed 'live', not after running a simulated combat.
I was referring more to the GUI facing in front of Rawr if it wouldn't work completely.

It's really nice to be able to pull your current character from the armory and then have options for gear selection instead of having to sit down and manually input all the stats twice if trying to simulate the dps from changing a single piece of gear. To say nothing of how great it would be to be able to save the gear sets and the results from their simulated runs so you could just change that one piece and rerun the sim and get results right away.

Play with Rawr.mage for 10 minutes and you will see what I am talking about.
#88SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Yah, making the sims more *like* Rawr would be great. I'm just saying that the sim won't fit *into* rawr.
#89SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Yah, making the sims more *like* Rawr would be great. I'm just saying that the sim won't fit *into* rawr.

aren't you a programmer? get to it!

#90SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Its not a programming thing its the nature of how Rawr works. Or do you mean the gui front end? I don't know Visual C++.

I'd greatly prefer that these sims were made as multi-platform as possible, to include any GUIs.
#91SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Or do you mean the gui front end?
That.

I don't know Visual C++.
my problem too.
#92SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
That.

my problem too.
Why do you people need use Visual C++ to make the GUI? Do a fresh start with Java or anything you prefer .
#93SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Why do you people need use Visual C++ to make the GUI? Do a fresh start with Java or anything you prefer .

This is Rawr

Rawr - Release: Rawr b16

Download it and load up the mage version and then pull Rounce from US-Mal'Ganis from the armory and play with the items and buffs and talent specs and everything else. I used that a great deal when we were working on Brutallus (before I main-switched to my shaman) and it was indispensible.


What I would kill kittens for would be that interface for my shaman with the ability to press a button and have it run your sim from the buffs and items on the paper doll and then give me dps and sustainability and AeP values from that.

The GUI also pulls data from armory so new items can be added very easily to the list.

As for the comparison data and the optimizations it would seem that if you were deriving AeP values from the Sim runs you would be able to have comparison data available based on the values from that most recent Sim run. Sure a closed model would be easier but if your sim is that much faster then Yo!'s it shouldn't be a big deal to have it run a Sim whenever you want to confirm the AeP values for all the items.

Problem is that I have no knowledge whatsoever about coding. I don't even think I remember how to make the turtle move at this point (and that was the sum total of my programming experience from back when I was 10 or 11 years old - and if any of you remember the turtle anymore I would be surprised). I'm an end-user and I would probably have greater success writing a novel in Russian then coding out a GUI like Rawr's for your sim in any coding language.
#94SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Tukez sim model that flametongue proc maelstorm weapon. It should not.
#95SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Tukez sim model that flametongue proc maelstorm weapon. It should not.
No it does not. Flametongue cannot proc anything in the sim...which made me think another thing. Should Static Shock proc from Flametongue?
#96SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Somehow flametongue did increase MW damage by 50 and then I rememebered passive spell damage. Fool me.

Flametongue proc static shock is something what is hard answer. It deal damage so If we belive tooltip then yes. But it not should proc another proc from another view. Testing in beta ins't right way to test how it should work. In beta there is so much bugs still.
#97SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Artoxia
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Ep values at 70lvl after spell hit and exptertice cap with best dps spec and rotation. Using bestDpsBuild.txt config. High sunwell gear level.

EP                  value     DPS       total DPS      difference
baseline                                2986.53
ap                  1         0.57      3157.99        171.46
crit rating         2.40      1.37      3123.42        136.89
hit rating          1.74      0.99      3135.35        148.82
expertise rating    0
haste rating        2.08      1.19      3223.92        237.39
armor ignore        0.21      0.12      3057.72        71.19
spellpower          1.15      0.66      3183.36        196.83
strength            1.10
agility             2.23
intelligence        1.34
elapsed simulation time: 120000.00h
elapsed real time: 617.53s
simulation speed: 699560x
hmmm can we expect the value for expertise rating to be the similar to our actual EP after patch 3.0?
#98SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Expertise value before cap ~2.86ep.
Hit value before spell hit cap ~4.33ep.

But don't use these numbers for loot rank. If you use those you go way over hit cap and don't get perfect gear. Put hit and expertice value same as crit rating. If this gear don't give enought spell hit to cap then you gem it. Expertice is little easier to get cap: just use 3*sunwell T6 and magister trinket don't bother to cap if you don't have those items.

I made link to lootrank. So many caster item at list. It's almoust funny that elemental t6 shoulders are almoust better than enchancement. Ignore feral items. Str ep value is 2 now becouse t6 items get str->2ap change but lootronk don't know it yet. If these ep values hold still at 80lvl we can wear anything but mana regen gear for dps.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/11/08 at 11:38 AM.
#99SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
New build's Enchant :

Enchant Weapon - Accuracy -- Permanently enchant a melee weapon to increase critical strike and hit rating by 25. Requires a level 60 or higher item.

Can we have this added to the sim please.
#100SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
I made link to lootrank. So many caster item at list. It's almoust funny that elemental t6 shoulders are better than enchancement. Ignore feral items. Str ep value is 2 now becouse t6 items get str->2ap change but lootronk don't know it yet. If these ep values hold still at 80lvl we can wear anything but mana regen gear for dps.
Sunfire robe as 2nd best chestpiece. Something stinks
#101SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Bellante View Post
Sunfire robe as 2nd best chestpiece. Something stinks
You are right. Can't rank healing item as spell power items becouse then spell damage items double dip. Corrected that bug. Changed to beta wolkt loorank.

Updated lootrank!

To Levva:
Edit: You can't rank weapons with lootrank period. You can make some list but only with simulator. Ingnore all weapons. There ins't linear weapon speed ep value. In main-hand slow is good but extremely fast is also better than medium speed. Just ignore weapons.

Edit2: You can try use Wdps ep values. 2.6s mh weapon with wf = 5.95ep and 1.4s oh weapon with ft = 1.94ep.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/11/08 at 1:20 PM.
#102SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
You are right. Can't rank healing item as spell power items becouse then spell damage items double dip. Corrected that bug. Changed to beta wolkt loorank.

Updated lootrank!
Still looks a bit suspect as you didn't change the weapon speeds, all of the MH weapons listed are very fast. If you change MH speed to min 2.4 then the top weapon is [Gavel of Unearthed Secrets] which is surely a joke???

Edit: To Pitbuller

Ah ok thought it couldn't be true. Would be a major indication of Blizzard having totally screwed us if [Gavel of Unearthed Secrets] truly was our best weapon :-)

Last edited by Levva : 09/11/08 at 1:02 PM.
#103SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hidden
Edit: Lootrank looks pretty weird to me, on the items the armor penetration has been converted to rating but not on gems.

Last edited by Hidden : 09/11/08 at 1:53 PM.
#104SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
You are right. Can't rank healing item as spell power items becouse then spell damage items double dip. Corrected that bug. Changed to beta wolkt loorank.

Updated lootrank!
Still have Strength set to 2 instead of 1.1 even though all the Tiered items are fixed on that version of Lootrank. (makes it overvalue druid feral items outta SWP like the demontooth shoulders).
#105SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Still have Strength set to 2 instead of 1.1 even though all the Tiered items are fixed on that version of Lootrank. (makes it overvalue druid feral items outta SWP like the demontooth shoulders).
Ignore feral items. Lootrank tooltips have changed but actual database hasn't. I tried with str 1.1ep value and all T6 enhancement items dropped have to live with bugged database.
#106SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
• Disquette
Use the parameters below. Change only the AP from 0 to 11. There is 0 change in dps. Does the sim round down for until it has an even multiple of 14AP?

Anyway, then change AP to 14. We have 150% of the expected dps gain from it (unless 14AP = 1 dps doesn't hold true anymore, I haven't followed WoW for a long time).

Interestingly (to me), this sim is giving 1.5 white dps increase for each 14AP - when I put in 28 AP, dps goes up another 1.5. Heh, maybe it did change in Blizzard's formulas and I just sorta missed that over the past few months.

I did verify that putting in 0 for everything except using a 1dps one handed weapon, I did get 1 dps.
Attached Thumbnails
hmm.jpg  

Last edited by Disquette : 09/11/08 at 9:58 PM.
#107SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Ignore feral items. Lootrank tooltips have changed but actual database hasn't. I tried with str 1.1ep value and all T6 enhancement items dropped have to live with bugged database.

Except I have the Demontooth Shoulders (feral) and they are a really good item now and they will be even better in WotLK.
#108SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Hey Disquette, we've missed your excellent sage advice

Tukez, in the shaman wotlk thread, there's a new blue post with some pretty hefty changes, just FYI.
#109SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Except I have the Demontooth Shoulders (feral) and they are a really good item now and they will be even better in WotLK.
Ignore those at loot rank or minus the str part. Before database update we have to chooce do lootrank show t6 or feral items right.
#110SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
Originally Posted by Disquette View Post
Use the parameters below. Change only the AP from 0 to 11. There is 0 change in dps. Does the sim round down for until it has an even multiple of 14AP?

Anyway, then change AP to 14. We have 150% of the expected dps gain from it (unless 14AP = 1 dps doesn't hold true anymore, I haven't followed WoW for a long time).

Interestingly (to me), this sim is giving 1.5 white dps increase for each 14AP - when I put in 28 AP, dps goes up another 1.5. Heh, maybe it did change in Blizzard's formulas and I just sorta missed that over the past few months.

I did verify that putting in 0 for everything except using a 1dps one handed weapon, I did get 1 dps.
Thanks for the testing. AP was rounded down, I fixed that. Ap is giving 150% gain because the offhand is still hitting. Currently there is not way to use just one weapon. You can try to to put -100 hit for offhand and then use the 14 ap to get 2 DPS.

Last edited by tukez : 09/12/08 at 8:50 AM.
#111SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Disquette
Alrighty, ty. I'll play with it a bit more as I have time. If WAR keeps being bad, I'll be playing WoW, so I figured I should start figuring out if I want to play my rogue or my shammy, and Malan had told me about this thread last week.
#112SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Disquette View Post
and Malan had told me about this thread last week.
Lies and slander.
#113SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.9.0

0.9.0
-Performance optimizations.
-Reodered talents and rotation&misc in the config files.
-Added Reverberation talent.
-Removed average_shocks_per_minute config option as unused. Increase the lag to simulate real playing environment.
-Added Bloodlust. You can have eiher 0, 1 or 2(or more) casters for Bloodlust. There is also option to sync bloodlust with trinkets.
-Every combat_length, bloodlust, miscellanous item, potion and on use trinkets are resetted.
-Bug fix: ap was being rounded down on the ap->dps calculation.
-With combatlogging, the combatlog.txt is now created if it does not exist and gets overwritten, if it does exist.
-Stormstrike charges modeled. They affect nature, fire and frost damage. Spells eating a charge are: ES,FS,Frost Shock,LvB,LB. Removed stormstrike_nature_damage_buff.
-Added Improved Stormstrike, removed stormstrike_cooldown. Also added Gladiator's Earthshaker set bonus.
-Call of Thunder is now 1 point talent and Elemental Fury is 5 point talent.
-Weapon Mastery is now 3 point talent.
-Lava Lash added. The mechanics are not correct yet.

enhsim - Google Code

I didn't change anything on Lava Burst yet.

I added Lava Lash, because of the limited theorycrafting purposes it might have. I do not know the correct mechanics but this is what I asssumed:

-Triggers static 1.5 gcd, not affected by haste.
-3s cooldown.
-4% mana cost.
-It uses OH weapon damage, eg. scales with AP.
-OH damage penalty is counted in.
-25% extra damage with flametongue off hand is additive...75% and 25% sums to 100%.
-It procs anything that yellow oh hits proc.
-It is affected by fire res and fire damage modifiers.
-It is not affected by armor.


If Bloodlust is synced with trinkets, with 2 casters, an extra 20s is waited after Sated ends. Meaning that the second one is casted at 6min. And so on...
#114SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
edit: ignore
#115SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
EnhSim 0.9.1

0.9.1
-Lava Lash cooldown's end now triggers a possible action with rotation. Meaning that the simulated player "notices" the cooldown an does something based on the rotation priority.

enhsim - Google Code

Note, that I changed the rotation priority options to upper case to improve readability. In the GUI, if you get the skills two times to the rotation priority box, you probably have them still in lower case in the config.

Last edited by tukez : 09/13/08 at 8:04 AM.
#116SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.9.2

0.9.2
-Maelstrom Weapon 5 point talent added. It has 20/40/60/80/100% chance to add a charge.


enhsim - Google Code
#117SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Fearlezz
edit: nvm, never thought my suggestion would be accepted by Blizzard

But since MW has changed now, could we get EnhSim to tell us what is the average time to get a full MW stack with current config after calculating everything?

For example:

- the config says we have 30% crit and 5/5 MW, so it would tell us that average time for 5xMW is 4.3 sec and in 90% of the cases it was faster than 4.1 sec

- the config says we have 30% crit and 3/5 MW, so it would tell us that average time for 5xMW is 6.2 sec and in 90% of the cases it was faster than 4.7 sec,


So we'd get stats like: Average_time_to_5xMW: XX.X, Time_to_5xMW_in_90%_of_cases: XX.X

It would help a lot with deciding if we want 5/5, 4/5 or even 3/5 MW with our crit rate and we can put those extra talent points to a better use somewehre

Last edited by Fearlezz : 09/14/08 at 8:55 AM.
#118SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
Originally Posted by Fearlezz View Post
edit: nvm, never thought my suggestion would be accepted by Blizzard

But since MW has changed now, could we get EnhSim to tell us what is the average time to get a full MW stack with current config after calculating everything?

For example:

- the config says we have 30% crit and 5/5 MW, so it would tell us that average time for 5xMW is 4.3 sec and in 90% of the cases it was faster than 4.1 sec

- the config says we have 30% crit and 3/5 MW, so it would tell us that average time for 5xMW is 6.2 sec and in 90% of the cases it was faster than 4.7 sec,


So we'd get stats like: Average_time_to_5xMW: XX.X, Time_to_5xMW_in_90%_of_cases: XX.X

It would help a lot with deciding if we want 5/5, 4/5 or even 3/5 MW with our crit rate and we can put those extra talent points to a better use somewehre
Yeah I can, but tell me first:

1) How do I calculate that 90% treshold without recording every single MW stacking time? I don't know the maths. I think recording them all would slow the sim quite a bit and that is not what I want to do for a feature, which won't be used much.
2) Is it really necessary to know those times...you could just simulate it and see which gives the best dps?

Last edited by tukez : 09/14/08 at 10:56 AM.
#119SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Fearlezz
Was just a thought, didn't think recording those full MW stacks somewhere and calculating stuff later would slow the sim down a lot.

You do have a point that you could just run the sim a few times and see what the best result is, I just thought that such a number would be nice to have to see what we can expect from rotations, but maybe it's just me. Anybody else who'd like to get such a number?
#120SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Roywyn
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Edit2: You can try use Wdps ep values. 2.6s mh weapon with wf = 5.95ep and 1.4s oh weapon with ft = 1.94ep.
So, using the 1 MHDPS = 6 EP, 1 SP = 1.15 EP estimations from your charts, the new Spell Power Fist would blow every other weapon away?

Wraith Strike vs. Kel'Thuzad's Reach
Loses 66 DPS, that's 396 EP, but gains 530 EP from it's spell power?
They are the same item level and more important the same speed. It's the only slow Spell Power weapon around I've seen.

According to that, it would be the equivalent to a 179 DPS without spell power for an enhancement shaman (unless those values are outdated).

Am I missing something why that weapon hasn't been mentioned?
It's the first spell damage fist and slow, so it seems designed with you guys in mind.
#121SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3frozndevl
Tukez, could you add the deathfrost enchant into the sim?
#122SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Roywyn View Post
So, using the 1 MHDPS = 6 EP, 1 SP = 1.15 EP estimations from your charts, the new Spell Power Fist would blow every other weapon away?

Wraith Strike vs. Kel'Thuzad's Reach
Loses 66 DPS, that's 396 EP, but gains 530 EP from it's spell power?
They are the same item level and more important the same speed. It's the only slow Spell Power weapon around I've seen.

According to that, it would be the equivalent to a 179 DPS without spell power for an enhancement shaman (unless those values are outdated).

Am I missing something why that weapon hasn't been mentioned?
It's the first spell damage fist and slow, so it seems designed with you guys in mind.
Pitbuller noted that weapons like that one may be useful to us in the other thread.
#123SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Fearlezz View Post
edit: nvm, never thought my suggestion would be accepted by Blizzard
People have been suggesting that on the beta forum from the day the ability was announced.
#124SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
People have been suggesting that on the beta forum from the day the ability was announced.
Honestly, I don't see why it matters to everyone here whether he was the one to originally suggest it or not. ;P I could argue that it was my post on the beta forums that got it changed, and you guys would come in here and say, "Nope, it was this other guy's post buried deep in some suggestion thread!" It honestly makes no difference. It would be nice to see the vitriol kept to the WoW forums.

That being said, based on simulations the best gems to socket with will be hit > everything until spell capped after 3.0 and in WotLK, correct? I just wanted to make sure of that since if I'm interpreting things correctly the current "best dps config" assumes capped spell hit.
#125SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
While you're leveling gemming for crit instead of hit will give you better bang for your buck. Unless you plan on leveling on mobs 3 levels higher then you consistently. Spell hit cap for mobs 2 levels above you is only 6% if my memory serves me correctly.

For raiding though you are correct judging from the numbers from the sims.
#126SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
I read on the WotLK thread, that WF proc chance should be 18% on one hand, not 20% as I have it modeled in the sim currently. Did I just understand that post wrong? I use the 36% chance with dual WF.
#127SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by frozndevl View Post
Tukez, could you add the deathfrost enchant into the sim?
Yes, but I can't find any accurate info how it works.

This is what I have gathered so far.

150 frost damage, uses spell crit. Affected by CSD. Don't know is it affected by Elemental Fury or not.
50% proc chance for spells, 20-25s cooldown.
Maybe 8-11% for melee, no cooldown?
Melee and spell proc cooldowns are independent.
#128SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I read on the WotLK thread, that WF proc chance should be 18% on one hand, not 20% as I have it modeled in the sim currently. Did I just understand that post wrong? I use the 36% chance with dual WF.
I would also like to see some evidence to back this up. I know it was discussed some time ago, but I can't see any situation where 18% proc chance is gathered from live without a too small dataset to be predictable.

Is it referring to actual proc chance with miss and avoidance or including the WF silence or something like it?
#129SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Yeah I can, but tell me first:

1) How do I calculate that 90% treshold without recording every single MW stacking time? I don't know the maths. I think recording them all would slow the sim quite a bit and that is not what I want to do for a feature, which won't be used much.
2) Is it really necessary to know those times...you could just simulate it and see which gives the best dps?
Fairly simple, if you are recording the average time, which is just a time taken to get 5 stacks divided by number of MW5s achieved. ie: when 0 stacks note time, then note time when 5 stacks and increment a MW5 stacks count and time taken. Average is total time taken divided by count.

The 90% or slightly more commonly expressed 95% confidence interval for 5 stacks average time is given by using the sample standard deviation. So all you need to do is to track the total, the square of the total and the count.

Pseudo code:

if mws == 0 then
   mwsTimer = Now()
end
if mws == 5 then 
   mwsTimeTaken = Now()-mwsTimer
   mwsCount ++
   mwsTotalTime += mwsTimeTaken
   mwsSDTime += mwsTimeTaken ^2
end
At the end of the sim you do a couple of calcs to calculate average & SD :
mwsAverage = mwsTotalTime/mwsCount
mwsSD = sqrt((mwsSDTime/mwsCount)-(mwsAverage^2))
Then you simply report average time to get 5 MWs is mwsAverage, and 95% of the time it will take between (mwsAverage - 1.96*mwsSD) to (mwsAverage + 1.96*mwsSD)

That wording is sufficient, although really it should be that we are 95% confident that the time taken will fall between those two values.

So you see a simple summation as you go and storing 3 values which is really not a huge overhead, and shouldn't add any noticeable time to the sim.

Last edited by Levva : 09/15/08 at 7:07 AM.
#130SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Fairly simple, if you are recording the average time...

So you see a simple summation as you go and storing 3 values which is really not a huge overhead, and shouldn't add any noticeable time to the sim.
Thanks! I will add this to the next version.
#131SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
DPS per point in maelstorm weapons.
0/0: 2876dps(-)
1/5: 3144dps(+286)
2/5: 3308dps(+164)
3/5: 3459dps(+151)
4/5: 3591dps(+133)
5/5: 3692dps(+101)

816dps talent. Even last point give over 100dps.
If you compare Maelstrorm weapon to other choices you will see that any build without maxed maelstorm is pointless and significant dps downgrade. If that new feature(avarage time per 5stack) slow sim even a bit then just dump it. There is no need to theorycraft about sub-optimal spec.


About windfury: Single wf = 20% and dual wf = 36%. 18% is wrong math(36% / 2) and you can ignore it. 36% come from shared cd and how it coded.(1-0.8^2)
#132SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
DPS per point in maelstorm weapons.
0/0: 2876dps(-)
1/5: 3144dps(+286)
2/5: 3308dps(+164)
3/5: 3459dps(+151)
4/5: 3591dps(+133)
5/5: 3692dps(+101)

816dps talent. Even last point give over 100dps.
If you compare Maelstrorm weapon to other choices you will see that any build without maxed maelstorm is pointless and significant dps downgrade. If that new feature(avarage time per 5stack) slow sim even a bit then just dump it. There is no need to theorycraft about sub-optimal spec.


About windfury: Single wf = 20% and dual wf = 36%. 18% is wrong math(36% / 2) and you can ignore it. 36% come from shared cd and how it coded.(1-0.8^2)
Ah but you are missing that those figures are from sim using OLD version of MW. ie: you need 5 points in it or you don't get instant cast. Now with the proposed change even 1 pt in Maelstrom Weapon will alllow you to get 5 stacks of MW and instant cast. The difference is it will take longer if you spec less than 5/5 thus it becomes important to understand the average time and the spread of time it takes to reach 5 stacks. Hence the reason for suggesting that the average time calc is added to the sim.

With the old method anything less than 5/5 meant you still had some cast time which meant massive dps loss as you listed. Now 5 stacks means instant cast even with 1/5 MW. The old version 5 stacks at 4/5 talents meant 80% cast time reduction thus dps lost whilst casting. This got worse so that 1/5 meant 20% cast time reduction and as you said a lot of lost dps.
#133SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I take it that the sim assumes 2/2 Imp.Windfury Totem? As it seems to be a fairly must have talent, however what would be the effect of taking 1/2 Windfury Totem? Is it possible to add this to the sim? I STRONGLY suspect a dps loss but it would be nice to give numbers to prove it as someone on the Blizzard boards is bound to suggest a spec without it.
#134SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Wolflord
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Ah but you are missing that those figures are from sim using OLD version of MW.
Nope thats the new version. Youll notice that even one point in MW provides a dps gain.
#135SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Hmm extremely interesting and not what I'd have expected from a pure gut feeling. I take it that it derives from the time it takes to get stack of 5.

I've been testing it on beta and its nice and easy to get a stack of 5, soloing, its even quite possible to keep a stack going between mobs. ie: kill one then quickly pull the next and keep the stack going. Noticing you have the stack is the key but here is where I'd put in another plug for ShockAndAwe the updated version of DisqoDice that includes (or will include) support for MW, LvB & LL.

With ShockAndAwe its a piece of cake to see you have a stack of 5 MWs, as well ofc as seeing your SS & Shock cooldowns, your shield charges and your WF hidden CDs.
#136SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
0.9.2
-Maelstrom Weapon 5 point talent added. It has 20/40/60/80/100% chance to add a charge.


enhsim - Google Code
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Ah but you are missing that those figures are from sim using OLD version of MW. ie: you need 5 points in it or you don't get instant cast. Now with the proposed change even 1 pt in Maelstrom Weapon will alllow you to get 5 stacks of MW and instant cast. The difference is it will take longer if you spec less than 5/5 thus it becomes important to understand the average time and the spread of time it takes to reach 5 stacks. Hence the reason for suggesting that the average time calc is added to the sim.

With the old method anything less than 5/5 meant you still had some cast time which meant massive dps loss as you listed. Now 5 stacks means instant cast even with 1/5 MW. The old version 5 stacks at 4/5 talents meant 80% cast time reduction thus dps lost whilst casting. This got worse so that 1/5 meant 20% cast time reduction and as you said a lot of lost dps.
Guess what version of sim I was using?

I don't understand reason why people think that lava burst is something super good. It's auto crit but so what. Lighning bolt actual scale better. If you try fancy build with less than five point at maelstorm weapon you will get lot less lighning bolts. Lighning bolts are huge dps boost(+434dps vs only LvB). Reason why many people was asking maelstorm weapon talent change was that they underestimate lightning bolts and stated that LvB have 8s CD and you get avarage five stack lot faster than that. Then they think that you don't need all five points. But if you can use sim then you see that all serious dps build need 5/5 maelstorm to do competitive numbers.
#137SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Ah but you are missing that those figures are from sim using OLD version of MW.
I believe it is from the new version. The old version didn't even have MW as talent, just 5/5 or nothing. How could he get that data without lower ranks?



Btw, speed decrease is around 2% with the MW stats. I am seeing numbers like 0.8-8.4s with the 90% thingy and average 4.5s with 5/5 MW. Should this

(mwsAverage - 1.96*mwsSD) to (mwsAverage + 1.96*mwsSD)
be this
(mwsAverage - 0.96*mwsSD) to (mwsAverage + 0.96*mwsSD)
Then it gives

5/5, 2.4s-6.7s, 4.5s avg
4/5, 3.0s-8.6s, 5.8s avg
3/5, 4.1s-11.7s, 7.9s avg
2/5, 6.3s-17.9s, 12.1s avg
1/5, 12.9s-36.6s, 24.8s avg

These numbers seems more like I thought they would be. IMHO, I don't think this info is worth it.
#138SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I read on the WotLK thread, that WF proc chance should be 18% on one hand, not 20% as I have it modeled in the sim currently. Did I just understand that post wrong? I use the 36% chance with dual WF.
Its just a statistical thing. The actual observed proc rate will be 20% if you examined a combat log, but while Dual Wielding each eligible hit from both hands (ie, those hits made outside the WF cooldown) have a combined 36% chance of one of the two weapons producing a proc. Each hand still has a 20% chance to proc when viewed individually though.
#139SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its just a statistical thing. The actual observed proc rate will be 20% if you examined a combat log, but while Dual Wielding each eligible hit from both hands (ie, those hits made outside the WF cooldown) have a combined 36% chance of one of the two weapons producing a proc. Each hand still has a 20% chance to proc when viewed individually though.
So is my sim working wrong now?

Let's make it simple. Outside wf cooldown:
Only 1 weapon has wf, proc chance on hit: xx%?
2 weapons have wf, proc chance on single hit: xx%?

In my sim it is 20% and 36%.
#140SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Yah you're doing it wrong. Each hand still has a 20% chance to proc, its just that when you view the system as a whole the proc chance is 36% for any hand to proc. For your sim each hand should have a 20% chance to proc (but locks out the other hand obviously).

Like I said, its just a statistical thing. The 36% number is just saying "If you have windfury on both hands, you have a better chance of getting a proc", but you'll still only see an overall proc rate of 20% of your total eligible hits.
#141SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Yah you're doing it wrong. Each hand still has a 20% chance to proc, its just that when you view the system as a whole the proc chance is 36% for any hand to proc. For your sim each hand should have a 20% chance to proc (but locks out the other hand obviously).

Like I said, its just a statistical thing. The 36% number is just saying "If you have windfury on both hands, you have a better chance of getting a proc", but you'll still only see an overall proc rate of 20% of your total eligible hits.
What about this text from Think Tank? This one says that the proc rate is 36% or then the wording is really bad.

Windfury Proc Rate

When you are wielding a two handed weapon, or are using a shield, your chance to proc windfury on any landed attack outside the 3-second cooldown is 20%. When you dual wield weapons, the chance on each landed attack outside the 3-second cooldown is approximatedly 36%, if and only if both weapons are imbued with Windfury. [footnote]Originally posted by Disquette on the WoW official forums. Original post is no longer archived by Blizzard.[/footnote]

Analysis of the combat log shows that if you sum all hits, the proc rate while DWing is 20%, but that includes hits you make while inside the 3 second cooldown, which cannot actually proc WF. When you remove the ineligible hits the observed proc rate from the eligible hits becomes 36%.
#142SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Windfury Proc Rate

When you are wielding a two handed weapon, or are using a shield, your chance to proc windfury on any
landed attack outside the 3-second cooldown is 20%. When you dual wield weapons, the chance on each landed
attack outside the 3-second cooldown is approximatedly 36%, if and only if both weapons are imbued with
Windfury. [footnote]Originally posted by Disquette on the WoW official forums. 
Original post is no longer archived by Blizzard.[/footnote]

Analysis of the combat log shows that if you sum all hits, the proc rate while DWing is 20%, but that
includes hits you make while inside the 3 second cooldown, which cannot actually proc WF. When you remove
the ineligible hits the observed proc rate from the eligible hits becomes 36%.
How I understand think tank article so wrong? Thats states 36% not 20%.

Edit: Too slow.

Edit2: If observed proc rate is 20% and there is 3s cooldown then actual proc rate has to be higher.
From my last brutallus kill observed procrate was 14.11%.
510 attacks which can proc WF
368s combat time.
144wf attacks or 72proc.
1.38 swing per 1s.
Wf was cd 72*3s=216s.
Wf wasn't cd 368s-216s=152s.
72proc in 152s or 210swing.
72 / 210 = 0.343. Which is close to 36%. Math isn't perfect but show that it's not 20%

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/15/08 at 10:51 AM.
#143SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
The ThinkTank article says exactly what I just stated. When you dual wield there is a 36% chance of a proc from either hand when out of the cooldown. Each hand still has its own 20% proc rate though, and the overall observed rate of windfury procs is still 20% when you view a WWS report.
#144SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
The ThinkTank article says exactly what I just stated. When you dual wield there is a 36% chance of a proc from either hand when out of the cooldown. Each hand still has its own 20% proc rate though, and the overall observed rate of windfury procs is still 20% when you view a WWS report.
No, it doesn't say that.

When you dual wield weapons, the chance on each landed attack outside the 3-second cooldown is approximatedly 36%, if and only if both weapons are imbued with Windfury.
I understand "each landed attack" as one attack with one weapon. I don't know how else can it be understood.

Sorry, I'm not gonna believe it unless Disquette confirms this. (or I see some parsed data from WWS)
#145SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Sorry, I'm not gonna believe it unless Disquette confirms this. (or I see some parsed data from WWS)
.....

Where the hell do you think I got that info from in the first place? Stick your head in the sand all you want I guess. Whatever.
#146SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Oogachaka
Might want to add that that 36% chance to proc only comes into effect if both MH and OH weapons are hitting at the same time. (Usually meaning they both have the same speed.
#147SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Uhh, no? That's not true at all.
#148SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rhaegal
You're not crazy--either the wording on the Think Tank is wrong and 90% of us reading it have been interpreting it as written for a very long time, or the sim is right as is. Unfortunately, as mentioned in the TTT, the original post isn't still hanging around for us to go reference, but every sentence in the TTT, and the original post in the epic-length Enhance thread, is worded such that each hit outside the WF CD has a 36% chance of proccing WF. It's not some "if you take each two sequential hits together, the chance that one of them will proc WF is 36%".

If that's not correct, and we've all been interpreting this test wrong for a year and some change, then the wording in the TTT needs changed.
#149SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
What is so hard to understand here? Its simple mathematics.

1 - (1 - 0.2) * (1 - 0.2) = 0.36

P(A and B) = P(A) * P(B)
#150SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
I have check ten random brutallus wws parses now with this simple formula.
(WF procs) / [(battle time - WF cd time) * (avarage swing per second)]
All result have give > 0.3.
#151SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rhaegal
It's not a question of the math. The statistics are obvious, but that's not the way it's being presented. If it was simple statistics, it never would have been a major topic of interest. Read these two sentences, Malan:

When you dual wield weapons, the chance on each landed attack outside the 3-second cooldown is approximatedly 36%, if and only if both weapons are imbued with Windfury.
When you remove the ineligible hits the observed proc rate from the eligible hits becomes 36%.
Those are directly from the TTT, and are in direct contradiction to what you're saying here today. The TTT says that each hit has a 36% chance to proc WF, and you're saying that every two hits have a 36% chance to proc WF. Those are very different statements.
#152SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Malan is correct, and strangely you are correct too Rhaegal but both expressing it in different ways

It is very very simple from a programming point of view. When a weapon MH or OH lands a hit do the following psuedo code check

if weaponHasWF_embue AND not WFProcced then
   if rnd()<0.2 then 
      -- WF procced on weapon
      WFprocced = true
      StartWFCooldown()
      DoWFDamageCalcs()
   end
end
ie: its a FLAT 20% check to see if WF has procced but you MUST make sure the 3sec CD is not active. Doing an INDEPENDENT check for each weapon at 20% mathematically means that "outside the 3-second cooldown" (the key bit in the quoted text) the chance is 36% EXACTLY as Malan quoted.

The critical part is that you ONLY check a WF outside the CD. This is why off-hands can "steal" a WF proc, as its a single check per hit, if WF is available then there is a 20% chance of a proc for the OH.

If you run the sim with this calc you should then see WF proc rates coming out at 36% OF ELIGIBLE HITS as predicted. However only 20% of ALL HITS.

Last edited by Levva : 09/15/08 at 12:37 PM.
#153SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Levva: Statistic still say 36%. Go and check wws.

I think they have coded it "wrong" and when you have double wf game check wf proc twice per hit. And that way give 36% proc chance.
#154SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
It is incredibly confusing the various wording. I'm reasonably confident the code I wrote is how it works however I am very open to being proved wrong as this is a critical part of the sim and NEEDS to be correct.

Since the article refers to calcs originally done by Disquette and he has popped his head in this thread in the last couple of days could he give any indication of what he found (or repost original thread)?
#155SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post

(mwsAverage - 1.96*mwsSD) to (mwsAverage + 1.96*mwsSD)
be this
(mwsAverage - 0.96*mwsSD) to (mwsAverage + 0.96*mwsSD)
No its most definitely 1.96 * sample standard deviation to give a 95% confidence interval.

1 SD gives only about a 68.27% confidence interval (0.96 would be less)
2 SD gives 95.450% confidence

It is normal however to use 1.96 SDs to give a 95% confidence interval. See Standard deviation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The large variance you are seeing just shows how random the time taken is with low stacks.

However if we are seeing that taking less than 5/5 MW gives markedly less dps then the average time to achieve 5 stacks is not perhaps not a worthwhile statistic to display after all.
#156SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Disquette
Hello all.

First, the best way to settle any sort of argument like this is by testing for one's self

That having been said, when I did my tests, my conclusions are:

1) Once you windfury, you can't windfury again for 3 seconds.

2) After those 3 seconds, any given attack has a 36% chance when dual-wielding (approx, the math behind it makes 36% look like a very attractive candidate) to proc another windfury.

If you're willing to spend a bit of time in blasted lands, anyone can verify or disprove this.
#157SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Levva: Statistic still say 36%. Go and check wws.

I think they have coded it "wrong" and when you have double wf game check wf proc twice per hit. And that way give 36% proc chance.
I think you are calculating it wrong Pitbuller.

I have a BT parse from a weeks ago vs Brutallus.
267 Windfury "hits" (non crit), 105 Windfury critical hits, 4 windfuries parried
Total Windfury attacks: 376

However, WWS counts each windfury hit as unique, ie, the 2 instant attacks are each counted as a unique incident. Therefore, divide 376 by 2.
Total number of actual windfury procs is therefore 188.

On the same parse I had 631 "hits" and 308 crits for a total of 939 swings that connected.

188/939 = 0.20021 or ~20%

So my overall observed proc rate from my *total* number of hits is 20%. Which is what I said above. What you are saying is that if you make some approximations for number of hits outside the cooldown that you see 36%. Which is exactly what I said as well. Outside of the cooldown there is a 36% chance of a windfury. When taken into account for the total data set though its still a 20% effect.
#158SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Roywyn
There has been a test recently that checked that when you perform a Stormstrike, your MH checks first for a WF proc, then your OH checks for a WF proc. (Hence you get more PH procs.)

The test proved "en passant" that the WF proc rate was 36% on each unless I'm completele mistaken.

The test was done by standing sideways to a Blasted Land servant so you could Stormstrike and get Windfury hit, but not get white hits.


That positioning still works on beta, so you can easily do the test there/on the PTR.
(If Windfury works that is.)
#159SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
The actual observed proc rate will be 20% if you examined a combat log, but while Dual Wielding each eligible hit from both hands (ie, those hits made outside the WF cooldown) have a combined 36% chance of one of the two weapons producing a proc. Each hand still has a 20% chance to proc when viewed individually though.
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Yah you're doing it wrong. Each hand still has a 20% chance to proc, its just that when you view the system as a whole the proc chance is 36% for any hand to proc. For your sim each hand should have a 20% chance to proc (but locks out the other hand obviously).

Like I said, its just a statistical thing. The 36% number is just saying "If you have windfury on both hands, you have a better chance of getting a proc", but you'll still only see an overall proc rate of 20% of your total eligible hits.
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
So my overall observed proc rate from my *total* number of hits is 20%. Which is what I said above. What you are saying is that if you make some approximations for number of hits outside the cooldown that you see 36%. Which is exactly what I said as well. Outside of the cooldown there is a 36% chance of a windfury. When taken into account for the total data set though its still a 20% effect.
Underlines mine.

You really didn't say "exactly" those things. You said that each individual hand has a 20% chance to hit even when outside the windfury cooldown and that only as a combination of two hits do we see a 36% proc chance. Disquette has just told us that each individual hand has a 36% chance to hit when outside the windfury cooldown. Because of the 3-second cooldown, the observed proc rate when considering all hits is 20%.

Again, to reiterate, you said that "eligible hits" have a 20% chance to proc windfury. Disquette did not say that. If "eligible hits" had only a 20% chance to proc windfury, because of the 3-second internal cooldown we would see an observed proc rate on all hits of much less than 20%.

I know that you're a smart guy, Malan, but you contradicted yourself, and the vitriol and self-righteousness is getting really tiresome. You were wrong, other people were interpreting the TTT correctly and you were not, and If I get warned for this, whatever.
#160SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Roywyn View Post
There has been a test recently that checked that when you perform a Stormstrike, your MH checks first for a WF proc, then your OH checks for a WF proc. (Hence you get more PH procs.)

The test proved "en passant" that the WF proc rate was 36% on each unless I'm completele mistaken.

The test was done by standing sideways to a Blasted Land servant so you could Stormstrike and get Windfury hit, but not get white hits.


That positioning still works on beta, so you can easily do the test there/on the PTR.
(If Windfury works that is.)
I've been spending a good deal of my free time this morning looking for that testing in the old enhancement thread (no luck so far) but that was what I remembered about it as well.

Basically Blizzard half-assed the coding for Windfury and any strike when dual wielding (wf/wf) would get the 36% chance to proc when off cooldown. Which integrates very well with Stormstrike since Stormstrike checks for a Mainhand proc before it checks for an offhand proc.

I'll keep looking but that's what I remember being the final outcome from ingame testing regarding it.
#161SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
Heh, the last two pages were extremely funny. We've had dualwielding + 3 Sec WF Cooldown for how long now? 1,5years?

And it's still not obvious how it works, apparently.

I'll try to find a wording that makes it crystal clear.

When you are outside the Windfury cooldown and attack with both weapons simultaneously, is it:

  • a) P(WFProc) = 0,36 + ((1-0,36)*0,36) = 0,5904

OR

  • b) P(WFProc) = 0,2 + ((1-0,2)*0,2) = 0,36
#162SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Originally Posted by Xoya View Post
other people were interpreting the TTT correctly and you were not
That's pretty funny considering.

Last edited by Malan : 09/15/08 at 4:28 PM.
#163SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Hey questions about glyphs. Can we use same type of glyph in multiple slots and do they stack? Can we use minor glyphs in major slot? Also, if you use Glyph of Flametongue Weapon and dual FT, do you get 4% spell crit? Is the Glyph of Stormstrike bonus damage additive or multiplicative to the existing 20%.
#164SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Now that they change the armor ignore to armor penetration rating, does Executioner buff change to rating also? I guess static bonuses on items change to rating at least, what about trinket procs like Madness of the Betrayer? AFAIK, debuffs like Sunder Armor or Faerie Fire won't be converted to rating.
#165SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Morelis
Originally Posted by Roywyn View Post
There has been a test recently that checked that when you perform a Stormstrike, your MH checks first for a WF proc, then your OH checks for a WF proc. (Hence you get more PH procs.)

The test proved "en passant" that the WF proc rate was 36% on each unless I'm completele mistaken.

The test was done by standing sideways to a Blasted Land servant so you could Stormstrike and get Windfury hit, but not get white hits.


That positioning still works on beta, so you can easily do the test there/on the PTR.
(If Windfury works that is.)
I was the one that did that testing, and it was posted in the think tank thread but it appears to have been purged at some point... I had done it to determine if the main hand is checked first on SS for WF procs(which it is) but the results also show the proc rate per weapon, not combined is indeed 36%.

Here's the WWS from the log I modified to show the separate procs, the only changes made to it were to descriptions and spell IDs to allow the WWS parser to display them separately:

Wow Web Stats

It's a bit annoying to see good testing thrown out.
#166SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Morelis View Post
per weapon, not combined is indeed 36%..

THANK YOU!

I have been reading the old Enhancement thread page by page all day looking for that proof. I knew I wasn't losing it and that Windfury was 36% per weapon when off cooldown.

The numbers are basically perfect for what would be predicted by 36% chance per weapon.

726 Stormstrikes.

36% would be 261 mainhand windfuries (he had 249 or 34%)

That would leave 726-261 = 465 attacks that would get checked for offhand windfury (477 remaining in his test pool)

36% of that would be 167 offhand windfuries (he had 157 or 33%).

That basically fits although it does open the door that the percentage chance per weapon is slightly lower then the 36%, it actually may be 33-34% or it could just be that it is a small(ish) sample size and over a larger sample size it would show the 36% that was expected.

Very glad you saved that parse, and thanks again for posting it.


Last edited by Rouncer : 09/15/08 at 11:12 PM.
#167SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Morelis
You left out crits.

546 SS, 194 MH WF = 35.5%
(546 - 194) SS, 120 OH WF = 34%

A little closer to 36% but what we would really need to be sure is a larger sample. It took over an hour and a half to get those 546 stormstrikes... Someone else can get more.
#168SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Chromean
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
THANK YOU!

I have been reading the old Enhancement thread page by page all day looking for that proof. I knew I wasn't losing it and that Windfury was 36% per weapon when off cooldown.

The numbers are basically perfect for what would be predicted by 36% chance per weapon.

726 Stormstrikes.

36% would be 261 mainhand windfuries (he had 249 or 34%)

That would leave 726-261 = 465 attacks that would get checked for offhand windfury (477 remaining in his test pool)

36% of that would be 167 offhand windfuries (he had 157 or 33%).

That basically fits although it does open the door that the percentage chance per weapon is slightly lower then the 36%, it actually may be 33-34% or it could just be that it is a small(ish) sample size and over a larger sample size it would show the 36% that was expected.

Very glad you saved that parse, and thanks again for posting it.


Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't WWS count windfury as two separate hits? So if you calculate the procs based on number of connected WF hits the results will show a higher percentage than it really is. I think it came up earlier in this thread already that you need to halve the number of connected WF hits and then calculate the percentage to get an accurate result . What my quick napkin math got out of that parse was ~17% for MH and ~13% for OH windfuries, it is a very small sample though you cannot expect absolute results as was pointed out already.
#169SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Morelis
Originally Posted by Chromean View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't WWS count windfury as two separate hits? So if you calculate the procs based on number of connected WF hits the results will show a higher percentage than it really is. I think it came up earlier in this thread already that you need to halve the number of connected WF hits and then calculate the percentage to get an accurate result . What my quick napkin math got out of that parse was ~17% for MH and ~13% for OH windfuries, it is a very small sample though you cannot expect absolute results as was pointed out already.
That would probably be the proper way to do it, but since he didn't halve the stormstrikes(2 per hit as well) to begin with it ended up working out anyway. The numbers I listed were the halved values. As to the sample size I'm sure one of the statistics nuts around here can tell us exactly how accurate it is.

Last edited by Morelis : 09/16/08 at 4:16 AM.
#170SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Jesus fuck. This thread sure took a turn towards instant failboat all of a sudden.

1. The dataset for the "proof" that WF is so and so is low. Very low.

2. WWS is retarded and shows "hits" without crits so you have to add the crit nuber to hits to get the actual number of attacks.

3. WWS shows one WF proc as two WF attacks, like stated above.

Actual numbers:
      Hits  Crits  Total
SS   : 726 - 366 = 1092
MH WF: 249 - 139 = 388
OH WF: 157 -  83 = 240
So proc chance in this run was for MH: ((388/2)/1092)*100=17.77% and ((240/2)/1092)*100=10.99%.

The above numbers show you a few things. First you see why a very small dataset is bad(but you have to take my word for this until I can dig up my old statistics books to prove it, or someone else can), secondly you see how OH is locked out of WF by MH thus getting a very low proc chance.

Any chance you can put the actual log somewhere, Morelis so we don't have to put our faith in RETARDED WWS?

Edit: And just to let you know: Some of this is pieced together from guesswork on how WWS works so don't take my word for this as the end result. Need the log to be certain.
#171SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Raut: You divide with all SS attacks. You should use only mh SS attacks.
MH: ((388/2)/546)*100=35.53%
[(240/2)/ (1092/2 - (388/2) )]*100=34.09%

WWS parse with over 500 mh and oh SS attacks is big enough for checking 20% vs 36%. And it's closer to 36%
#172SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Tukez could you settle the argument in the sim pls.

If you could record in the sim the number of hits (including crits), the number of WF procs, and the number of hits inside the WF cooldown. Then display these as percentages at the end of the run. We can then run the sim a lot and check.

If the output can show :
Total hits, Total WF procs, hits that were INSIDE the WF CD. We get WF procs/Total hits = Total % chance to proc AND WF Procs/(total hits - hits inside the WF cooldown) = total % chance to proc WF OUTSIDE the WF CD.


Now these figures will give us a 5000 hour sim of numbers of attacks at the current sim rate of 36% ON EACH WEAPON HIT. ie: I understand that every time you check a hit to see if it procs WF you use 36% chance.

You could then alter the sim and change the chance on each weapon hit proccing WF to 20% (which I believe it should be) and see what the rates are for inside and outside CD.

The sim can then show unbiased figures of what the proc rate ends up over a very very large sample, both inside and outside the CD.



Acutally it might be nice in the sim to have a "debug" tick box. So that normal runs didn't show these sorts of figures, and things like the average MW 5 stack times etc. Then if user turns on debug info they get the extra calcs. That way the sim runs full speed without debug info for most occasions and with the extra sometimes useful info when needed simply by ticking a box.


Edit: It might be nice to record MH hits, MH WF procs, MH hits inside WF CD separate from OH hits, OH WF procs, OH hits inside WF CD.

Last edited by Levva : 09/16/08 at 5:15 AM.
#173SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Hey questions about glyphs. Can we use same type of glyph in multiple slots and do they stack? Can we use minor glyphs in major slot? Also, if you use Glyph of Flametongue Weapon and dual FT, do you get 4% spell crit? Is the Glyph of Stormstrike bonus damage additive or multiplicative to the existing 20%.
The glyph interface has 6 round circles, 7 if you are an inscription profession guy. 3 of the circles (4 with inscription) are Major Glyphs, and 3 are minor. On using a glyph you fill up one of the slots. There is nothing on the Glyph (see Shaman Glyphs - Items - World of Warcraft) that says unique or unique equipped, so you might be able to get 3 of the same. I'll see if the beta is stable enough to try it this evening, although will need to find inscription person or level it :-(

The damage bonuses are almost certainly multiplicative as Blizzard changed a lot of effects, with patch 2.0 or 2.1 if memory serves, to be multiplicative and not additive as too many things were becoming possible to exceed or get close to 100% again would need proper testing. I can't see you having 3 Windfury Weapon glyphs and having +120% AP bonus or could it???

Although now the PTRs are actually up it should be possible to test it on there too if you can get through the queues.
#174SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
I knew I made a mistake... Sorry. At least it refreshes my hatred for WWS. (And my assumptions)

Why do you deduct MH WF procs from OH WF proc calculations? The argument stands as a whole and not only in cases where MH hasn't procced WF.
Something akin to (((388/2)+(240/2))/546)*100 = 57.51% of SS attacks procced WF.

We just have to disagree on the size of the dataset.
#175SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
• Philondra
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
I knew I made a mistake... Sorry. At least it refreshes my hatred for WWS. (And my assumptions)

Why do you deduct MH WF procs from OH WF proc calculations? The argument stands as a whole and not only in cases where MH hasn't procced WF.
Something akin to (((388/2)+(240/2))/546)*100 = 57.51% of SS attacks procced WF.

We just have to disagree on the size of the dataset.
As Rounced reminded us several pages back, SS will always attempt to proc from the MH first and, failing that, attempt to proc from the OH. Therefore, if SS procs an MH WF, the OH will never proc. We need to take this into account or else the OH proc rate will appear to be artificially low.

Edit to add: The purpose of this sim was NOT to find out what chance stormstrike has to proc WF. It was to find out what the chance is to proc WF while dual wielding if WF is currently not on cooldown. Stormstrike is merely the vehicle chosen to help ensure that WF is always off cooldown when attacking; if you just sit there and include autoattacking, latency and combat log lag will make it difficult to analyze results and determine the actual proc rate. Controlled tests can be done by turning your character model in such a way that specials will hit but your character will not autoattack.)

We then must compensate for the fact that SS attacks with both weapons, which we do by exluding the OH hit in cases where the MH procced WF, as the OH will have an observed proc rate of 0% in such a situation.

Last edited by Philondra : 09/16/08 at 5:31 AM. Reason: Clarification
#176SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
WF proc from SS = 0.36 + ((1-0.36)*0.36) = 0.5904 vs WWS 0.5751.
I deduct mh wf proc number from total oh attacks becouse those are under shared CD. I wanted just see proc% from both hands invidially.
Can we now forget this subject?


Updated lootrank link for 3.02 at 70lvl raiding. Database still bugs. You need lower str items ep value by self. Assuming spell hit cap gemmed etc if not there.
#177SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
Originally Posted by Philondra View Post
As Rounced reminded us several pages back, SS will always attempt to proc from the MH first and, failing that, attempt to proc from the OH. Therefore, if SS procs an MH WF, the OH will never proc. We need to take this into account or else the OH proc rate will appear to be artificially low.
That's just it - it is low. Because MH gets prioritized, OH WF procs from SS will be far lower. You can't say that the OH proc chance on SS is near 36% when MH gets first shot at it with it's 36% proc chance. You can say OH WF chance is 36% if MH didn't proc WF first, but that is only looking at the remaining 64% of SS attacks.

And as a mind exercise:

Actual proc rate from the WWS: (120/546)*100 = 21.99%
Realistic proc chance of OH WF proc from SS: 0.64*0.36*100 = 23.04%
#178SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
You can't say that the OH proc chance on SS is near 36%
That's not was this discussion was about. It was about any given attack of a single weapon outside the Windfury cooldown. And that's apparently 36%, even for the offhand.
#179SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
Originally Posted by fauxpas View Post
That's not was this discussion was about. It was about any given attack of a single weapon outside the Windfury cooldown. And that's apparently 36%, even for the offhand.
SS is an atomic action that includes both MH and OH so talking about OH WF proc chance without taking the MH's proc chance into account makes no sense. That is my point. I'm being a pedantic here, but we're talking about the common rule-set we use in enhance theory-crafting so pedantic is good.

You're talking about all attacks having a 36% chance of proccing WF(outside of the 3sec rule). That's not right. The 36% applies to SS AFAIK. I did some quick mashup of a generic WWS report(twins, muru and some attempts on KJ):

Melee hit, crit, SS hit, crit:
1780+1278+421+248 = 3702 number of attacks
Excluding misses and parry
(Of course you automatically lose some potential WF procs due to SS, but you can't link the WFs from where they procced and every attack is a potential WF proc)

WF hit, crit:
827+475 = 1302. Procs is half that: 651

So my proc rate for the entire evening was ((1302/2)/3702)*100 = 17.59%. Now this is also a small dataset(too small in my book), but it's larger than the one we've been discussing in the SS debate.
#180SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
What you're describing is overall proc chance. That is at ~17,59% overall including attacks made during the cooldown, the chance has to be significantly higher for attacks outside the windfury cooldown.
#181SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Use this formula to calculate proc chance.
(WF procs) / [(battle time - WF cd time) * (avarage swing per second)]

WF procs = (hits + crits) / 2
Battle time = combat time
WF cd time = WF procs * 3s
Avarage swing per second = (SS hits + SS crits + normal hits + normal crits) / battle time

Every Brutallus report I have parsed show > 0.3.
Formula uses avarages but at the end that not matter really much.
#182SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
No. I'm not describing any proc chance. I just showed actual proc rates during a raid. Of course a lot of these were made inside the 3sec rule. But you are saying that the 3sec rule is effectively cutting the 36% proc chance down to something like 17.59%, or roughly half, yes?
#183SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
But you are saying that the 3sec rule is effectively cutting the 36% proc chance down to something like 17.59%, or roughly half, yes?
Seems like it. The whole point of the discussion - at least to my understanding - was to make sure that the simulator actually simulates windfury correctly. And in order to do that it needs to know how big the proc chance for windfury is for a single attack outside the 3 second cooldown. Which seems to be 36%, not 20% like some people repeatedly suggested in this thread. The actual proc rate may be 18% oder 20% or whatever, but that's not what the simulator cares about.
#184SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
Punched my WWS entry into Pitbull's formula:

Attacks: 3702
WF procs: 651
Battle time: 3:48, 29% presence: (3*60*60+48*60)*0.29 = 3967.20

>>> 651/((3967 - (3*651)) * (3702/3967))
0.34637561381512555

~ 34.64%

The formula looks good for calculating an average, I have to say. I was thinking of how to get a good model for finding the 3sec silence, but this seems to do the job. I'm convinced. Thanks for the clear-up, Pitbull. It's probably the most solid work I've seen on WF mechanics in a long while.

tukez - the bootstrapping of weapon buffs in enhsimconfig.cpp is quite messy. It the first if-else paragraph in both functions. The else should always be false, no?
#185SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
tukez - the bootstrapping of weapon buffs in enhsimconfig.cpp is quite messy. It the first if-else paragraph in both functions. The else should always be false, no?
I don't actually know which lines do you mean, maybe these?

if (mh_weapon_enchant_ == "windfury" && oh_weapon_enchant_ == "windfury") {
      enhsims_[i]->mh_windfury_->proc_chance_ = WINDFURY_DUALWIELD_PROC_CHANCE;
      enhsims_[i]->oh_windfury_->proc_chance_ = WINDFURY_DUALWIELD_PROC_CHANCE;
    }
else {
      enhsims_[i]->mh_windfury_->proc_chance_ = WINDFURY_PROC_CHANCE;
      enhsims_[i]->oh_windfury_->proc_chance_ = WINDFURY_PROC_CHANCE;
}
That works correctly. Actually the else statement is stupid, as the proc rate is already that one.
#186SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
Yeah. Since WINDFURY_DUALWIELD_PROC_CHANCE applies when dual-buffed with WF, the else statement can never be correct. It's just nitpicking anyway.
#187SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Tukez could you settle the argument in the sim pls.
Currently you can see the wf procs/hits and wf procs/swings per hand in the end of sim, just scroll up a bit. You can also see miss/dodge/hit/crit amounts for every ability there. BUT as I did the test I noticed that the WF% didn't take into account SS nor LL. If you test it, keep that in mind. I fixed that for the next version though.

I did these with default config, just took out LL from rotation and 0/2 improved stormstrike.

Anyway, with 36% proc chance outside cd:
MH windfury:
procs/hits          19.97%
procs/swings        17.81%

OH windfury:
procs/hits          13.60%
procs/swings        12.13%
And with 20% proc chance outside cd:

MH windfury:
procs/hits          13.47%
procs/swings        12.01%

OH windfury:
procs/hits          11.07%
procs/swings        9.88%
#188SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Yeah. Since WINDFURY_DUALWIELD_PROC_CHANCE applies when dual-buffed with WF, the else statement can never be correct. It's just nitpicking anyway.
Well, there are mh_windfury_ and oh_windfury objects even if you are not dualwielding. They just won't be used. Anyway, I'll remove that else block.
#189SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
This could be a very big point of contention going forward.

If lava lash is a melee attack and can proc offhand windfury then won't it increase the incidence of offhand windfuries when using WF/WF?

I don't think there will be any way that anyone could track the Windfury cooldown and all the other things and delay hitting Lava Lash to attempt to maximise Mainhand Windfuries, the rotation is just too tight and constant. It will be hard enough just to utilize a priority list properly.

If Lava Lash does proc offhand windfuries is it still a dps increase if you use wf/wf with what we have just established as how the proc rates change when dual wielding wf/wf?

Can your sim determine the answer to that?
#190SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.9.3

Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
If Lava Lash does proc offhand windfuries is it still a dps increase if you use wf/wf with what we have just established as how the proc rates change when dual wielding wf/wf?

Can your sim determine the answer to that?
0.9.3
-Windfury statistics corrected to take into account SS and LL.
-armor_ignore changed to armor_penetration. Notice, that it is % now. Also ep_armor_ignore changed to ep_armor_penetration_rating.

enhsim - Google Code

Yes, you can try it yourself now.
#191SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
WF proc from SS = 0.36 + ((1-0.36)*0.36) = 0.5904 vs WWS 0.5751.
I deduct mh wf proc number from total oh attacks becouse those are under shared CD. I wanted just see proc% from both hands invidially.
Can we now forget this subject?


Updated lootrank link for 3.02 at 70lvl raiding. Database still bugs. You need lower str items ep value by self. Assuming spell hit cap gemmed etc if not there.
The elemental t6 shoulders come out well ahead of the enhancement t6 shoulders on that list. If that's at all accurate, we need to be making a lot of noise.
#192SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.9.5

0.9.5
-Fixed Windfury bonus ap to 475.
-Fixed Call of Flame to affect whole Searing Totem damage, not just base damage.
-Glyphs added: Lightning Bolt, Lightning Shield, Earth Shock, Windfury Weapon, Flametongue Weapon, Stormstrike.

enhsim - Google Code

You can use same glyph in multiple slots currently. Again, I don't know correct mechanics, so this is what I did with glyphs:
Lightning Shield stacks, multiplicative.
Lightning Bolt stacks, additive.
Earth Shock doesn't stack.
Windfury Weapon stacks, multiplicative.
Flametongue Weapon stacks per glyph, no extra bonus with dual flametongue, additive.
Stormstrike stacks, additive.

Windfury ap was 445. It is a bit wierd that Thottbot and Wowhead both show 445 bonus ap, but I logged in with my shaman and noticed it is 475.
#193SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3frozndevl
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Yes, but I can't find any accurate info how it works.

This is what I have gathered so far.

150 frost damage, uses spell crit. Affected by CSD. Don't know is it affected by Elemental Fury or not.
50% proc chance for spells, 20-25s cooldown.
Maybe 8-11% for melee, no cooldown?
Melee and spell proc cooldowns are independent.
From the Deathfrost thread, this is the post that seemed to summarize everything the best.

http://elitistjerks.com/805104-post128.html

In the coming days Ill go try and whack away at a dummy on the ptr to see if I can add to the information at all for proc rates.
#194SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Uhm, my antivirus program has just marked EnhSim.rar (re-zipped so I can fiddle with it at work) with a virus called "ExceedinglyInfected". Could others check if this it just my antivir playing up, and Tukez scan your pc?

Found this link with a description "This statement indicates that Antigen found more than 5 infected or file filtered documents in a ZIP file attachment", I'm not into this sort of thing, so I don't know if it's just the case of a "file filtered document", whatever the hell that is.

Anyway, I may be off the track here, but I thought I'd let you know so you can debunk if it's a false alert.

Link to a description:
RE: Virus
#195SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
Originally Posted by Bellante View Post
Uhm, my antivirus program has just marked EnhSim.rar (re-zipped so I can fiddle with it at work) with a virus called "ExceedinglyInfected". Could others check if this it just my antivir playing up, and Tukez scan your pc?

Found this link with a description "This statement indicates that Antigen found more than 5 infected or file filtered documents in a ZIP file attachment", I'm not into this sort of thing, so I don't know if it's just the case of a "file filtered document", whatever the hell that is.

Anyway, I may be off the track here, but I thought I'd let you know so you can debunk if it's a false alert.

Link to a description:
RE: Virus
I scanned my project folder and the zip file, but no detections. Now I'm scanning my hard drives, nothing so far. I'm using AntiVir.

I checked what's that file filtering means. So you recomprossed the sim and sent it to your e-mail? Then Antigen warned when you opened the email.
Antigen’s File Filter feature lets you search for attachments with a specific name, type and/or size.
Here’s how to configure a file filter.
And then a picture with settings...one being .exe file. So most probably your Antigen is configured to detect and warn about .exe files in attachements. Just to clarify, that it doesn't mean that it's a virus.

Last edited by tukez : 09/17/08 at 8:09 AM.
#196SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I was looking at Elixirs and noted that it may be useful to include [Elixir of Mastery] in the sim as it gives +15 all stats. For us that means +15 str, +15 Agi and +15 Int = +45 AP and some melee crit from Agi and some spell crit from Int. Which makes its look a decent elixir.

I was also wondering if it wasn't a good idea to include a separate section for Guardian Elixirs as whilst there seems to be only one good one at present that gives us a dps boost, it is very likely more will come out as they do final top level passes for all the professions and add in new top level Alchemy recipes.

The current Guardian Elixir of interest is [Elixir of Draenic Wisdom] that gives +30 Int = +30 AP and some spell crit.


Of course in addition to this is the elixirs already announced for WotLK but unavailable in patch 3.0.2 eg:

Elixir of Mighty Strength, Guru's Elixir and Elixir of Mighty Agility.

Edit: Replaced [ item] tags with URL tags as item tags point at Wowhead: OMG IT'S ALMOST HERE not http://woltk.wowhead.com
#197SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
Nod32 doesn't report anything in the current EnhSim ... and didn't do so with all the versions i used before that one.
#198SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I scanned my project folder and the zip file, but no detections. Now I'm scanning my hard drives, nothing so far. I'm using AntiVir.

I checked what's that file filtering means. So you recomprossed the sim and sent it to your e-mail? Then Antigen warned when you opened the email.
And then a picture with settings...one being .exe file. So most probably your Antigen is configured to detect and warn about .exe files in attachements. Just to clarify, that it doesn't mean that it's a virus.
I realise it doesn't, but it's the work Antigen, something I don't even see (it's mailserver stationed), so I just wanted to make sure that it was just my side seeing a problem. Seeing as that is likely the case, there's no problem. Thanks for checking though.
#199SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Minor niggle with sim talent options.

There is no option to choose stormstrike - I guess because its kinda assumed as a given, same with Dual wield. However there is a choice of 3/3 Elemental weapons, which as a pre-requisite of Stormstrike obviously must be a given too?? So is it necessary to give Elemental Weapons as an option if you are assuming stormstrike?

BTW Lava Lash are you intending to include that as a talent choice? Or is it a case if its ticked in the priorities you assume they have it?

Actually thinking about it I'd be interested in assisting with the GUI perhaps adding options to import a tree from wowhead/blizzard/wowdb etc. Possibly also looking at the feasibility of importing stats from Armory. Although not sure armory gives all the stats I couldn't see ArP given for instance - certainly not as a percentage.

Only problem is my C++ skills are extremely rusty. I'd be happier coding in Java, which would have the benefit of being platform independent and helping the Mac & Linux guys.

I'd be willing to look at a Java port of the sim too if you were at all interested in heading in that direction? As I say the major plus is platform independence.
#200SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Windfury ap was 445. It is a bit wierd that Thottbot and Wowhead both show 445 bonus ap, but I logged in with my shaman and noticed it is 475.
Are you sure the tooltip isn't just showing the current value as modified by talents or equipment effects? What value does it give when you have no talents and naked? I'm at work so can't test this on beta at present.
#201SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Minor niggle with sim talent options.

There is no option to choose stormstrike - I guess because its kinda assumed as a given, same with Dual wield. However there is a choice of 3/3 Elemental weapons, which as a pre-requisite of Stormstrike obviously must be a given too?? So is it necessary to give Elemental Weapons as an option if you are assuming stormstrike?

BTW Lava Lash are you intending to include that as a talent choice? Or is it a case if its ticked in the priorities you assume they have it?

Actually thinking about it I'd be interested in assisting with the GUI perhaps adding options to import a tree from wowhead/blizzard/wowdb etc. Possibly also looking at the feasibility of importing stats from Armory. Although not sure armory gives all the stats I couldn't see ArP given for instance - certainly not as a percentage.

Only problem is my C++ skills are extremely rusty. I'd be happier coding in Java, which would have the benefit of being platform independent and helping the Mac & Linux guys.

I'd be willing to look at a Java port of the sim too if you were at all interested in heading in that direction? As I say the major plus is platform independence.
If you have SS in rotation priority, then it assumes you also have the talent. Same goes with Lava Lash. The talent selection box does not check any prerequirements of the talents. It would be nice to have a full blown talent tree selection.

If you want to assist with the GUI, I suggest you make a completely new GUI with Java. I would also like platform independent GUI, I would have done that, but only tool I know how to make GUIs is VC++.

The GUI just needs to create the config file for the enhsim.exe(or whatever the name is in other platforms). You could have a box where to define the enhsim executable, like I have the directory box in EnhSimGui. The problems you mentioned with armory import are not so big. You can handle the stats as you see fit, just when you press simulate button, create the config file and run the enhsim,

I'm not very interested in the Java port of the sim. As you said, it would be great for platform indepence, but bad for speed. I don't think it's too bad to compile the sim if you have Mac or Linux. Of course, there is always someone who don't know how to do that. Well, that is the risk you took, when you chose your platform. No offense to Mac/Linux guys, just stating the fact. I would have done the sim in Java, if it were anywhere near the speed of C++. Actually, the reason I started this project in the first place, was that Yo's sim was so slow.

Last edited by tukez : 09/17/08 at 10:58 AM.
#202SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Are you sure the tooltip isn't just showing the current value as modified by talents or equipment effects? What value does it give when you have no talents and naked? I'm at work so can't test this on beta at present.
I don't think there are any talents affecting the WF ap bonus? I took off Totem of the Astral Winds, still 475.
#203SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I'm not very interested in the Java port of the sim..
A java gui front end at least would still keep the best of both worlds.
#204SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
A java gui front end at least would still keep the best of both worlds.
I am happy to have a bash at doing a Java GUI producing a plain text file at the end of it and/or calling the .exe is straight forward. I'm on holiday in Spain (my parents retired to the sun there so nice free accomodation) next week and so will have a lot of time by the pool with my laptop. Also my guild has decided to stop raiding now that WotLK date is out so I've got plenty of time to throw something together between now and then.

The problem is though Malan that the best a Java GUI could do is to create the .txt config and call the enhsim.exe file. If the enhsim.exe file is compiled for a PC it still won't run on a Mac regardless of how good the Java GUI is. The Java GUI can't make a PC .exe work on a Mac.
#205SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I am happy to have a bash at doing a Java GUI producing a plain text file at the end of it and/or calling the .exe is straight forward. I'm on holiday in Spain (my parents retired to the sun there so nice free accomodation) next week and so will have a lot of time by the pool with my laptop. Also my guild has decided to stop raiding now that WotLK date is out so I've got plenty of time to throw something together between now and then.

The problem is though Malan that the best a Java GUI could do is to create the .txt config and call the enhsim.exe file. If the enhsim.exe file is compiled for a PC it still won't run on a Mac regardless of how good the Java GUI is. The Java GUI can't make a PC .exe work on a Mac.
As I said, you could add a box in the GUI, where the user defines the path and name of executable file. Windows user inputs enhsim.exe and Mac/Linux user inputs something else. I think that should work?
#206SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Are you sure the tooltip isn't just showing the current value as modified by talents or equipment effects? What value does it give when you have no talents and naked? I'm at work so can't test this on beta at present.
Just don't worry about anything on the Beta till the next patch.

We've been promised a working Windfury among all the other things and I am dying to see if the functionality is the same as current or if the "less mathy" rework has been instituted.

Probably going to need to repeat the previous stormstrike test to check the proc rate as well as figuring out some way to determine if the cooldown is the same and if it is still linked between the 2 hands. I'm wondering if they aren't going to change it to something where each hand has a 20% proc rate separate from the other and instead of a cooldown they just make it so that no 2 consecutive melee attacks can proc windfury (no factual basis for that, it's just a hunch).

At least with the cheap respecs and the targeting dummies on the Beta it should be really easy to test everything.
#207SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
The problem is though Malan that the best a Java GUI could do is to create the .txt config and call the enhsim.exe file. If the enhsim.exe file is compiled for a PC it still won't run on a Mac regardless of how good the Java GUI is. The Java GUI can't make a PC .exe work on a Mac.
With a make file or an ant build script we could easily set the target of the gui to run the proper binary.

At any rate the simulation itself should really just be a method called by the gui, not a seperate process launched by the gui.
#208SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
mek
It seems there is a bit of an underlying issue with WF/FT simulation... namely that WF/WF currently (or at least in live) enjoys a "bug" where its 18% proc rate is checked twice (once per hand) regardless of which hand hits, causing an effective 36% proc rate. This was noticed quickly in the early TBC days as WF procced far more often, even accounting for increased hits, than its previous 2h behaviour accounted for. (I can dig up the tests, they are on these forums somewhere..)

Is this accounted for in current simulations?

edit: Nevermind, I just went digging through your code and in fact it is. I'm still going to bring it up with Blizz as it may be devaluing the intended power of WF/FT.

Last edited by mek : 09/17/08 at 6:20 PM.
#209SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
With a make file or an ant build script we could easily set the target of the gui to run the proper binary.

At any rate the simulation itself should really just be a method called by the gui, not a seperate process launched by the gui.
However as Tukez sim is in C++ and WILL be a separate .exe the only thing a Java GUI could do would be to launch a separate process. Unless we can do some shell embedding or some other clever stuff.

Perhaps the simplest would be that the Java GUI could be packaged with PC & Mac exes, so it was distributed as a working package. The bleeding edge stuff would be on the PC and what Tukez put on the google site. So that it would still be possible for technically competent people to compile and replace the exe in the package with newer versions.


As a first stage my only attempt would be to mimic the existing GUI and be able to load, edit and save the config files and calling an external exe. Getting it to this stage will be a sizable initial task. After that I would look at replacing the talents section with importing Wowhead & Blizzard talent trees. ie: specify a URL and it could import the tree. Maybe even embed a browser view to display it on a separate tab. ie: so the talents on a separate tab could be a limited browser view of the wowhead or blizzard talent tree. No navigation just a tree to allow you to visually change the talents.

Further features would build on that. First obvious stage is to include importing talents from the Armory as if it supports Blizzard tree import then getting the URL from the Armory is easy just reading the URL from the Armory XML sheet. Ofc fairly simple the real work here is dealing with all the protocol crap wrapped up in reading the XML from the Armory.

I could then move to reading the rest of the armory data and populating the extra fields replacing the input boxes with an enter character and realm selection.

It does strike me I'd need a text window for editing any settings it doesn't know how to deal with. eg: We get a super new glyph that Tukez adds to the sim "Imp.Windfury Weapon - grants 1 additional WF attack" (actually having thought of that someone on the US beta go add that as a suggestion NOW. A WF proccing 3 extra attacks would be great).

If the GUI can't handle new parameters it means manually editing the config file until the next update. At least having a "I don't know how to handle these parameters" section it would allow editing them in the GUI rather than having to resort to a text editor. It also means that Tukez can release new versions without worrying about having features the GUI doesn't understand.
#210SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Finally getting round to trying the sim with my own personal values so going through each and every field. I noted there was no talent selection for Enhancing Totems to give +15% to SoE & FT totems. Is this an oversight or is it assumed it will be taken? Similarly with Imp.WF totem? Am I just missing the point and the GUI version doesn't allow altering these? Or is it assumed you max them both? What happens if someone doesn't max them both?

Whilst I'm on totems what totems are we assuming the shammy uses? How does the sim calculate the effects of totems? Is it calculating the Lvl 70 equivalent totems or lvl 80 equivalent totems? It does know about totems doesn't it? The source totems.cpp only suggests it looks at the relic slot totem. Is it rolled into the Buffs section so you need to manually edit your totem buff values?
#211SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by mek View Post
It seems there is a bit of an underlying issue with WF/FT simulation... namely that WF/WF currently (or at least in live) enjoys a "bug" where its 18% proc rate is checked twice (once per hand) regardless of which hand hits, causing an effective 36% proc rate. This was noticed quickly in the early TBC days as WF procced far more often, even accounting for increased hits, than its previous 2h behaviour accounted for. (I can dig up the tests, they are on these forums somewhere..)

Is this accounted for in current simulations?

edit: Nevermind, I just went digging through your code and in fact it is. I'm still going to bring it up with Blizz as it may be devaluing the intended power of WF/FT.
If you are successful in getting Blizzard to change this you will earn the undying hatred of all Enh Shammy's out there. It would be a big nerf to half our WF proc chance, which is what you suggest Blizzard should do.
#212SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3mek
Well, if WF/FT is our new setup of choice, the quirky proc rate of WF/WF is irrelevant, except so far as it is being incorrectly modeled internally by Blizzard, which may affect their balancing of the DPS of WF/FT. The time for these sorts of changes is in beta, though admittedly it's getting startingly late and enhancement still needs a lot of work.

Again, this may all be irrelevant, we need to see how WF is implemented next build. If we're really lucky they have recoded the whole damn thing to be "less mathy" and these sorts of quirks will already have been ironed out.
#213SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Levva:
70lvl totems and raid buffs.
armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          381/381
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40
Only what matter is what kind and how big buffs raid will offer to you.

Tukez: Physical_vulnerability_debuff should be only 2.0/2.0.
#214SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Finally getting round to trying the sim with my own personal values so going through each and every field. I noted there was no talent selection for Enhancing Totems to give +15% to SoE & FT totems. Is this an oversight or is it assumed it will be taken? Similarly with Imp.WF totem? Am I just missing the point and the GUI version doesn't allow altering these? Or is it assumed you max them both? What happens if someone doesn't max them both?

Whilst I'm on totems what totems are we assuming the shammy uses? How does the sim calculate the effects of totems? Is it calculating the Lvl 70 equivalent totems or lvl 80 equivalent totems? It does know about totems doesn't it? The source totems.cpp only suggests it looks at the relic slot totem. Is it rolled into the Buffs section so you need to manually edit your totem buff values?
As Pitbuller already mentioned: if you think something is missing, first take a look at the buffs section and think, could it be already included there.
#215SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
@Pitbuller : Ah ofc this makes a lot more sense now that I think about it and I suddenly noticed the tooltips on the GUI for whatever reason they hadn't popped up before. Having a configurable number is easier to modify for level so is the way to go.

If I get something going with a Java GUI I would be tempted to go with a "basic" and "advanced" tabs. Basic would have the tick boxes I'm using these totems and have these buffs. Advanced would be the highly configurable numbers. I'd only be interested in aiming it at the lvl 80 stuff though as by the time I've got something viable the timescale for lvl 70 on patch 3.0 raiding will be negligible. So it seems pointless writing a GUI to be user friendly for that very limited "70 on patch 3.0" market. I'd rather have any user friendly side of things aimed at lvl 80 stuff.

The first aim will still be to replicate the exisiting sim and package it for use with both PC & Mac clients.

@mek : I suppose you have a point if the balancing is based on a flawed mechanic it is indeed better that they fix it, as long as the nett effect is not to nerf our dps I suppose people will still be happy.

It will be interesting tomorrow or Friday when they will probably put up the new patch to see if indeed they have held good to the promise of a less "mathy" WF. Might be a disappointment though for those of us that are heavily into the maths.
#216SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 0.9.7

0.9.7
-Fixed dual Executioner bug.
-Deathfrost enchant added.
-Guardian elixir slot added.
-Added elixirs: Elixir of Mastery, Guru's Elixir, Elixir of Mighty Agility, Elixir of Might Strength, Elixir of Draenic Wisdom.
-Changed physical vulnerability debuff default to 2.0%.

enhsim - Google Code

Deathfrost is static 8% on melee and 50% with spells, 25s cooldown(spells). It does not record the debuff uptime. If someone wants to have that, let me know and I'll do it. It requires some extra work, thats why I didn't do it now.

Just noticed, that I forgot to change the physical vulnerability debuff default from GUI.
#217SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
I'm in beta now and just bought 3 windfury weapon glyphs (some kind soul was selling them on AH for 1g each). I will now go and test what effect I get from stacking 3 of them if I can. I'll edit and update this msg with results.

Edit: Hmmmm, that sucks, after ages spent retrying to back into server after a crash then carefully trying to remove any other proccing effects - I went and got two new weapons so they had no enchants and removed trinkets, relic totem, no totems etc etc etc, to try to have as little proc effects as possible to isolate the effects of glyphs.

I then did some combat testing (I cant get to Dalaran yet so I cant use the training dummies) with my AP reduced to a lowly 1762 (lots of kit removed and crap weapons) I set about getting some numbers. I then used a single glyph and observed the changes on WF procs. All good so far but taking forever to establish good baselines.

I finally attempt to add a second WF weapon glyph to see if the effects are additive or multiplicative and what happens I get an error "That Glyph is already in use in another socket".

So we have an answer at least the glyphs are unique despite it not saying so on the tooltip. I've submitted a bug report saying it should say that on the tooltip.

So in reply to :

Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Hey questions about glyphs. Can we use same type of glyph in multiple slots and do they stack? Can we use minor glyphs in major slot? Also, if you use Glyph of Flametongue Weapon and dual FT, do you get 4% spell crit? Is the Glyph of Stormstrike bonus damage additive or multiplicative to the existing 20%.
NO they are Unique-Equipped even though they don't say that on the tooltip. As an aside using them puts them in a slot and they cannot be removed only overwritten so they act exactly like a gem in that respect (ie: Unique-Equipped is an excellent tag as its identical to gem behaviour).

NO when you right click on a glyph to use it the appropriate slots light up, you then click on that slot to place it. The UI won't permit using the glyph in the wrong type of slot.

Not sure about flametounge on two weapons with dual FT would need to buy the glyph but only seller is selling it for 1000g and I didn't transfer my bank alt. On live I send my bank alt my spare cash to resist temptations its like putting money in a savings account in real life - if its not in my wallet I'm not tempted to spend it

No SS glyphs on the AH sorry so can't answer last part.


It creates a slight annoyance for the sim you need to prevent people using multiple copies - perhaps the first thing the sim needs to do before it starts churning numbers is to validate the config, this could go into the validation routine as a check. Forgive me if you already validate the config I've not studied the code yet.

Last edited by Levva : 09/17/08 at 9:07 PM.
#218SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Tukez - Glyphs do not stack I checked today, you can have exactly 1 of each glyph (3 total). I have all the Enhancement glyphs ready to go for use once they fix the bugs on windfury. Not going to test the Stormstrike one until they make the change for Stormstrike to be fire/frost/nature.
#219SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3seniac
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
However as Tukez sim is in C++ and WILL be a separate .exe the only thing a Java GUI could do would be to launch a separate process. Unless we can do some shell embedding or some other clever stuff.
I think the best way to make a cross platform GUI is to use a framework like QT.
#220SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
However as Tukez sim is in C++ and WILL be a separate .exe the only thing a Java GUI could do would be to launch a separate process. Unless we can do some shell embedding or some other clever stuff.
Say what?
You can import C++ code into java. It's called native integration and its been in the JDK since v1.1. The software that I develop on at my job is built around this, the simulation I work on uses a C and C++ terrain database and a java sim engine/gui. You don't need to "call a binary" to do this.
#221SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Tukez: Two minor changes to sim.
Lava Lash:
You charge your off-hand weapon with lava, instantly dealing 100% off-hand Weapon damage.
Damage is increased by 25% if your off-hand weapon is enchanted with Flametongue.
4% of base mana, 5 yd range, Instant cast, 6 sec cooldown
Thundering Strikes Rank 5:
Improves your chance to get a critical strike with all spells and attacks by 5%.


Lavaburst get another rank but is level 80 and everything else in sim is 70lvl stuff.

Edit: If you add 80lvl ranks and buffs make it optional. Lot's of us still wan't use sim at 70lvl.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/18/08 at 5:43 AM.
#222SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
Now that you mention it .. a switch for 70/80 would be nice .. once all the ranks and details are out, anyway
#223SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Say what?
You can import C++ code into java. It's called native integration and its been in the JDK since v1.1. The software that I develop on at my job is built around this, the simulation I work on uses a C and C++ terrain database and a java sim engine/gui. You don't need to "call a binary" to do this.
Yeah I was vaguely aware that this existed although I've never had reason to code for it as I have no C or C++ code that I use. A PM with url details of any examples would be helpful to get me up to speed. Thanks.
#224SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Just google for "native code java" and you'll get loads of examples.

Tukez - make sure you remove the ability to stack glyphs.
#225SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
0.9.9
-Changed Lava Lash cooldown to 6s and damage multiplier to 100%.
-Changed Lava Burst mana cost to 10%.

enhsim - Google Code

Thundering Strikers: No need to change anything, as it is passive bonus, which shows on the char sheet.
Glyphs: I didn't change anything yet, just added comment/tooltip, which says that you cannot use same type of glyph in multiple slots.
#226SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
New build : New Enchants

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...allrecipes.jpg

Enchant Weapon - Greater Potency : +50 AP
Enchant Weapon - Superior Potency : +65 AP
Enchant Weapon - Massacre : +110 AP
Enchant Weapon - Mighty Spellpower : +63 SP

Now I can't really see any point in including Greater Potency or Mighty Spell Power in the sim, there is perhaps a justification in including Superior Potency as its much cheaper than Massacre but I suspect Massacre is the one that really needs to be in there for serious raiding and ignore the others.

However it may be that it simply adds AP to the char sheet tooltip in which case nothing needed. It does create an interesting issue however where you use the AP from the tooltip and need to set enchant to nothing. Or is it wise to have an option for Massacre but have it do nothing because the AP is already reflected in tooltip?

Depends on how intelligent you think the users are, my style is to code for thick users.
#227SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Massacre to me seems to be an enchant for a 2 hander, just missing the relevant text.
#228SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Depends on how intelligent you think the users are, my style is to code for thick users.
My opinion is, that if you are intelligent enough the get something useful out of the sim, you are intelligent enough to understand, that passive bonus enchants(or whatever) are not needed to be included separately.

Although, in your GUI, all of those might be needed, depending how do you do it. For example, if you let people change items, enchants etc.
#229SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Info coming thick and fast as usual - new trinkets seen in new build :

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...idtrinkets.jpg

Ones for sim are probably :

Fury of the Five Flights : each melee hit = +16 AP stacks 20 times (similar to Darkmoon Card: Crusade)

Grim Toll : +83 hit rating and melee attacks chance to increase Armor Penetration by 612 for 10 secs - Question: Things like this do spell hit too? Looks like exceeding spell hit cap is going to be easy if you get +83 from one item.

Embrace of the Spider : +98 Spell power, spells have chance to increase haste rating by 505 for 10 secs!!!! That SOUNDS enormous as it doesn't say spell haste just haste rating so I assume it affects our melee swings too.

Loatheb's Shadow : +84 crit strike rating, Use: +670 AP for 20 sec (2min CD).

Mirror of Truth : +84 crit strike rating, chance on crit +1000 AP for 10 sec. Sounds like a Enh Shammy one to me

Sundial of the Exiled : +84 crit strike rating, harmful spells have change to add + 590 spellpower for 10 sec.

Note no item levels noted so can't tell if these are starter ones but they sound like Naxx trinkets (Loatheb and all) ie: itemLevel 200.

Note no information at all about proc rates etc - all too early to tell, this is from data mining not from drops.
#230SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
My opinion is, that if you are intelligent enough the get something useful out of the sim, you are intelligent enough to understand, that passive bonus enchants(or whatever) are not needed to be included separately.
Is that consistent with the rest of your interface? That's the only concern, as long as it's done the same way for every input it should be ok.
#231SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Is that consistent with the rest of your interface? That's the only concern, as long as it's done the same way for every input it should be ok.
Yes, it is consistent.
#232SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Tukez, Stormstrike glyph is additive, it adjusts the bonus damage to 28%. Just checked on beta.
#233SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Would it be possible to let us set a complete damage rotation including multiple spell casts? The priority system implemented is nice, but doesn't necessarily let you maximize your casts in any meaningful way. Its real easy for a simulator to say 'if MWStack=5, use LvB', not quite so easy when you are juggling SS/Shocks/LL/LvB/MW/Totems/LS cooldowns all at once.
#234SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
, not quite so easy when you are juggling SS/Shocks/LL/LvB/MW/Totems/LS cooldowns all at once.
Isn't that the entire point of using priorities?
#235SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Urgok
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Would it be possible to let us set a complete damage rotation including multiple spell casts? The priority system implemented is nice, but doesn't necessarily let you maximize your casts in any meaningful way. Its real easy for a simulator to say 'if MWStack=5, use LvB', not quite so easy when you are juggling SS/Shocks/LL/LvB/MW/Totems/LS cooldowns all at once.
I think he means that a priority 1 MW_LB and a priority 2 MW_LvB can't function in the simulator together. The MW_LB command is always executed instead of the priority 2 command. So I suppose an OR option would be nice.
#236SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Urgok View Post
I think he means that a priority 1 MW_LB and a priority 2 MW_LvB can't function in the simulator together. The MW_LB command is always executed instead of the priority 2 command. So I suppose an OR option would be nice.
Not needed if you set the PRIORITY in the sim OR viewing the situation in game and YOU are making decisions then think what happens.

OH I have 5 stacks of MW (easy to see with ShockAndAwe Enh Shammy addon - shameless plug) so you have determined in the sim I should use :

1: MW_LvB
2: MW_LB

So your though process is "is LvB off cooldown" (again easy with ShockAndAwe - well it will be when I write that bit) if it is you know thats your priority so you do that. If not then you go to next in the list LB - well I can do that so off you go and cast LB.

Now at first it will take some getting used to but I do think that the whole concept of having to make intelligent decisions rather than button mashing will bring a lot of skill and interest to the class. Sure at first we wont do max dps cos we will forget the priorities, however in time we will learn these new skills.

The ones that stay button mashing will have much lower dps than those of us that put in the time and effort to learn new skills and having that as a clear differentiator is great. I like that I could out dps someone geared in T8 gear vs me in starter Naxx gear because I put in the effort to be more skillful. It would be great if the game became more about skillful players and less about macros and gear.

Having said that I am well aware that writing an addon to make it easier to decide makes the comments slightly hypocritical. Still all an addon does is present the info for you to decide in a simple manner, it doesn't actually decide anything for you.

Edit: On re-reading your specific ordering there is still no need for an OR, they are mutually exclusive in that order and the MB_LvB AFTER a MB_LB in a priority queue doesnt have an "OR" its simply not part of the priority queue. The sim knows this and its up to the player to learn this.
#237SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hothgor
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Not needed if you set the PRIORITY in the sim OR viewing the situation in game and YOU are making decisions then think what happens.

OH I have 5 stacks of MW (easy to see with ShockAndAwe Enh Shammy addon - shameless plug) so you have determined in the sim I should use :

1: MW_LvB
2: MW_LB

So your though process is "is LvB off cooldown" (again easy with ShockAndAwe - well it will be when I write that bit) if it is you know thats your priority so you do that. If not then you go to next in the list LB - well I can do that so off you go and cast LB.

Now at first it will take some getting used to but I do think that the whole concept of having to make intelligent decisions rather than button mashing will bring a lot of skill and interest to the class. Sure at first we wont do max dps cos we will forget the priorities, however in time we will learn these new skills.

The ones that stay button mashing will have much lower dps than those of us that put in the time and effort to learn new skills and having that as a clear differentiator is great. I like that I could out dps someone geared in T8 gear vs me in starter Naxx gear because I put in the effort to be more skillful. It would be great if the game became more about skillful players and less about macros and gear.

Having said that I am well aware that writing an addon to make it easier to decide makes the comments slightly hypocritical. Still all an addon does is present the info for you to decide in a simple manner, it doesn't actually decide anything for you.

Edit: On re-reading your specific ordering there is still no need for an OR, they are mutually exclusive in that order and the MB_LvB AFTER a MB_LB in a priority queue doesnt have an "OR" its simply not part of the priority queue. The sim knows this and its up to the player to learn this.
So pretty much we all plan on 'prioritizing' our abilites. My problem is: "MW just popped up, but SS cooldown is up in 1 second and WF is off cooldown, to LvB or not to LvB?" I prefer dealing in absolutes or with situations that seem somewhat logical. We seem to have too much to do or think about now, and little thought was given into how our abilities and cool downs interact with others. Every other class has a rotation, it just seems silly that we can't and we are so apathetic about it.

But ignoring the 'speculation' on my original post, I'd like the option of simply selecting the order MANUALLY of spells I want to cast and see what happens.

Last edited by Hothgor : 09/18/08 at 10:11 PM.
#238SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Urgok
You might be able to do that hothgar to some extent using the "rotation and misc" section.


wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left 6.0 //maximum seconds to wait for LvB cooldown to use MW

Does this command tell the simulator to wait for the LvB CD if its under X for the MW_LB command and for all instances of MW_(anything here) despite the priority?
#239SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Every other class has a rotationeems , it just ssilly that we can't and we are so apathetic about it.
No, not every other class has a "rotation."
#240SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
No, not every other class has a "rotation."
Really? Which ones don't?
#241SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ANSeranov
Shadowpriests, for one.

All this stuff in beta has me so confused. When I transferred my shaman over, I started messing around in Northrend, but the new priority list and new abilities like Lava Lash have left me cross-eyed trying to figure out what to do.
#242SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Really? Which ones don't?
Shadow Priests and Affliction locks. I'm fairly certain that Fury warriors don't either. Hunters and rogues are really the only "rotation" classes.

Originally Posted by ANSeranov View Post
All this stuff in beta has me so confused. When I transferred my shaman over, I started messing around in Northrend, but the new priority list and new abilities like Lava Lash have left me cross-eyed trying to figure out what to do.
For solo I've just been opening with a SS, getting a flame shock going and then using Lava lash. By the time LL and SS come back around, mob should be close to dead.

Last edited by Malan : 09/18/08 at 11:46 PM.
#243SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Wolflord
I think the best analogue is to DPS warriors. Rage generation and MW generation are similar concepts, and lead to both of us having dps priorities, not fixed rotations.
#244SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Urgok View Post
You might be able to do that hothgar to some extent using the "rotation and misc" section.


wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left 6.0 //maximum seconds to wait for LvB cooldown to use MW

Does this command tell the simulator to wait for the LvB CD if its under X for the MW_LB command and for all instances of MW_(anything here) despite the priority?
Yes, correct.
#245SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Hey, did they change the DW specialization to increase spell hit also? If they did, I assume that it does not show on the char sheet, as it is DW only?
#246SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Hey, did they change the DW specialization to increase spell hit also? If they did, I assume that it does not show on the char sheet, as it is DW only?
Nah doesn't seem to have been changed. We thought it had been for awhile but I think some guys here proved it wasn't.
#247SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I cant get to Dalaran yet so I cant use the training dummies
There are test dummies in all major cities. If you're Horde, they're right next to the guy selling wolf mounts in Orgrimmar.
#248SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
At least on the EU servers the dummies in the old capitals are lvl 80 .. which makes them pointless for lvl 70 testing. i'd be fine on beta servers but they're also 80 on ptr
#249SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rhaegal
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
So pretty much we all plan on 'prioritizing' our abilites. My problem is: "MW just popped up, but SS cooldown is up in 1 second and WF is off cooldown, to LvB or not to LvB?" I prefer dealing in absolutes or with situations that seem somewhat logical.
In this sense, I think we can take a bit of wisdom from the protection warrior guide. They also use a priority queue for threat generation in a rage-limited situation (rotations are only for infinite rage situations), and the decision on what to do is based on cooldowns and how much rage is available the split second that the GCD is up. The theory is that it's always better to do something to generate threat than to wait on rage, or wait on a cooldown. The same should be true for us: if the GCD is up, and you have a damaging attack that you can do, do it. Don't wait on a cooldown, or you lose damage that you could have done. In the hypothetical example of waiting 1 sec to hit Stormstrike or Lava Lashing now, if you hit LL immediately, then you effectively push the Stormstrike CD back by half a second for the rest of the fight. If you wait on Stormstrike, you push the LL CD back by 2.5 seconds for the rest of the fight. The only exception I can think of is refreshing Lightning Shield, as it doesn't do direct damage and doesn't have a cooldown, so you can do it whenever without missing much.
#250SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Regarding Damage Rotations/Priority

I managed to log onto the premade server last night to test a few things out with regards to how much damage we could do. I tried three methods.

First, a priority system.

I had 5/5 Elemental Fury, 2/3 Call of Flame, 3/3 Static Shock and 5/5 Unleashed Rage.

I started off meleeing as normal to get 5 stacks of MW while dropping my totems and poping Lightning shield. After casting the initial MW_LvB, I jumped into using a priority system. Stormstrike always took higher priority over Flame Shock, which took a higher priority over Lava Lash, which took a higher priority over Earth Shock or Lightning Shield Refresh. Whenever MW was ready to blow, I would ignore any other cooldowns that were refreshed and popped LvB OR LB depending on how quickly I could build 5 stacks. After some initial test runs to refine my order and priority system 'you technically can't get a second LL/Shock between SS cooldowns without pushing SS back', I set out to do a proper test.

The results: The best I could manage to do was around 1850 damage. I did this for almost 2 hours and approximately 14,000,000 damage. Now I used no Goatism, and no Feral Spirits. I wasn't always solo attacking the dummy, and I do not know if I was 'leeching' other players buffs at varying times.

Second, a rotation system.

I had 5/5 Elemental Fury, 2/3 Call of Flame, 3/3 Static Shock and 5/5 Unleashed Rage

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Earth Shock, Lava Burst;

That is the macro that I set up to one button smash while damaging the targeting dummy. Again I started auto attacking while dropping totems, then set into spamming the macro for all my worth just to see what would happen. When it came time to cast Lava Burst, I cast it regardless of the MW charges I have 'our swing time does NOT appear to reset'.

The results: I averaged 2050 dps for 20+ minutes. The test was approximately 16 minutes long, but I decided to stop once the DPS stabilized within a 10 dps range. Again I wasn't always solo attacking, but for this test I had a good 12 minutes of solo time on my dummy.

Third, a rotation system.

I had 5/5 Elemental Fury, 2/3 Call of Flame, 3/3 Static Shock and 0/5 Unleashed Rage with 5/5 Reverberation.

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Earth Shock, Lava Burst;

Same macro as before, just with 1 second faster shock times. Once again, I started auto attacking while dropping totems, then set into spamming the macro as before. I also cast Lava Burst regardless of having a 5/5 stack or not.

The 'surprising' results:

Total Damage: 1917554
Average DPS: 2011
Melee: 556832 (31.1%) Misses 15.2%, Criticals 37%, Dodge 8.6% 1093 count
Lava Burst: 435378 (24.3%) 0% Misses, 100% crit, 103 count
Flametongue Attack: 243709 (13.6%) 75.3% hits, 24.7% crits, 584 count
Windfury Attack: 179742 (10.1%) 60.9% hits, 30.5% crits, 8.6% dodge, 174 count
Flame Shock: 105475 (5.9%) Hits 75.7%, Crits 24.3%, 103 Count
Lava Lash: 103780 (5.8%) Hits 63.1%, Crits 29.1%, Dodge 7.8%, 103 count
Earth Shock: 64443 (3.6%) Hits 60.6%, Crits 39.4%, 33 count
Lightning Shield: 51068 (2.9%) 100% hits, 73 count

Unfortunately this was the only detailed test I could do last night before the server began to crap out on me. Because of the combat log bugs, Stormstrike was not showing up on the recount detailed list. As you can see, I managed to still pull off over 2000 dps on the level 80 dummy. The dummy DID seem to dodge an anomalously large number of times '6.5 expected, 8.6% result'. The breakdowns were typical of our expected ratios. Only Windfury was low, but I was using rank 8 instead of 5 under the mistaken assumption that all WF ranks were broken.

Summy: Take what you want from my tests, see if you can do better on the actual PTR. My opinion is that simulators are great, but only worth talking about when they match up with real world situations. BTW, can anyone explain WHY I was doing so much more damage with the rotation system?
#251SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
BTW, can anyone explain WHY I was doing so much more damage with the rotation system?
Self fulfilling prophecy?
#252SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Just a note on the mechanics of Windfury and how it interacts with Elemental Weapons (I was reminded of this while doing some testing earlier and since I had forgotten I just want to make sure that the Sim is using the proper mechanics).

Elemental Weapons adds 40% to the total Windfury proc not just to the bonus AP.

So for rank 8 Windfury Weapon it would be

((Weapon dps x (AP + (1250 x 1.4))/14) x weapon speed) x 1.4

The first 1.4 representing the Windfury Weapon Glyph and the second one representing Elemental Weapons.


If that is already incorporated into the Sim then just ignore this.

(if there is doubt that the mechanic works that way the simplest check is just to respec and beat on a dummy without Elemental Weapons and then with it and you will see a jump in damage that is too much to be explained by Elemental Weapons only working on the AP bonus - use rank 5 in the beta since that is the highest rank that is actually still getting bonus AP damage although the Elemental Weapons talent will work on the new ranks but just without any bonus AP)
#253SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Self fulfilling prophecy?
I invite you to test it out for yourself, Malan. With a level 80 premade, we will have the same gear, talents, and we SHOULD have the same skill levels when it comes to this. When I get home later tonight, I will put in the premade 80 character stats into the simulator, and I'll see what it says I am supposed to be doing assuming perfect prioritization. I invite you to 'show me the numbers' yourself and challenge my statements here in the previous post. I can only post what the data I'm collecting from the BETA shows me after all. If you can do better, surely you can do the same!
#254SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Hotgor: There might be different priorities if you are not raid buffed. I'm not interested about solo dps only raid dps. Test with all raid buffs and there might be some point.
#255SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
I invite you to test it out for yourself, Malan. With a level 80 premade, we will have the same gear, talents, and we SHOULD have the same skill levels when it comes to this. When I get home later tonight, I will put in the premade 80 character stats into the simulator, and I'll see what it says I am supposed to be doing assuming perfect prioritization. I invite you to 'show me the numbers' yourself and challenge my statements here in the previous post. I can only post what the data I'm collecting from the BETA shows me after all. If you can do better, surely you can do the same!
Hey pal, ask a question, get an answer. I'm not the one making the claims here. The onus is on you, not me.
#256SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Hotgor: There might be different priorities if you are not raid buffed. I'm not interested about solo dps only raid dps. Test with all raid buffs and there might be some point.
That is a specious argument. Your simulation allows us to test our damage with or without certain buffs, does it not? It should not work 'better' with raid buffs than it does without. It should be able to accurately simulate our damage with a variety of buffs/debuffs/enchants/weapon imbunes etc, should it not? It should work regardless of if you are in a raid or not just as long as the correct buffs/debuffs are checked in the GUI. If it does not, then something is seriously wrong.

I punch in my solo premade stats into the simulator, a number should pop out that closely resembles my live testing data.

I punch in my raid premade stats into the simulator, a number should pop out that closely resembles my live testing data.
#257SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
that closely resembles my live testing data.
How can it closely resemble testing data if you didn't have those buffs and debuffs while testing?
#258SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mman
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
How can it closely resemble testing data if you didn't have those buffs and debuffs while testing?
He means that the sim should accurately match testing if the buffs/debuffs are the same in both situations. IE, the sim ran without raid buffs should match the testing he did.

Also, might it be possible that a cast sequence macro is better for a non-raid solo situation? From what I have seen raid buffs up the spell portion of our DPS. A cast sequence is tailored to fit in as many of our melee strikes as possible and a priority system allows us to maximize our spell DPS.
#259SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hothgor
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
How can it closely resemble testing data if you didn't have those buffs and debuffs while testing?
Why wouldn't it? If the simulator has my EXACT paper doll stats, buffs and all, input into it, it should simulate my damage and be reasonably close to my live tested damage. If the simulator has my paper doll raid buffed stats input into it, it should simulate my damage and also be reasonably close to what my live test are doing. I'll do some more testing tonight. If you have access right now, you could be spending time checking it out for yourself instead of being nitpicky :P

Originally Posted by Mman View Post
He means that the sim should accurately match testing if the buffs/debuffs are the same in both situations. IE, the sim ran without raid buffs should match the testing he did.
Originally Posted by Mman View Post
Also, might it be possible that a cast sequence macro is better for a non-raid solo situation? From what I have seen raid buffs up the spell portion of our DPS. A cast sequence is tailored to fit in as many of our melee strikes as possible and a priority system allows us to maximize our spell DPS.
Why wouldn't it be better in a raid? Unless our melee damage is less than our spell casting damage, we will always be prioritizing SS/LL over shocks and a potential extra MW_LB. SS has a higher priority over most of the other abilities. With the cooldowns in place on our abilities, we are restricted to essentially casting 1 shock and 1 LL between SS casts. Unless we are talented for Reverberation, any shock cooldown would overlap with our SS cooldowns, causing us to cast one every 9 seconds instead of 8 if we opted to cast a second one.

Last edited by Hothgor : 09/19/08 at 5:12 PM.
#260SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sydane
If the theory and sims determines an "ideal" rotation based on a priority system, and your ingame tests show that you can't match that dps, all that proves is your own inability to match the execution of the sim, not a flaw in the theory. There are many extraneous things that influence actual ingame execution, from lag to player awareness. Sometimes the sim can create an impossibly ideal situation, and if that is the case it would need to be addressed (for instance if it wasn't including latency and was creating a perfect rotation that would never happen). Other times things don't need to be included in calculations because they affect everything equally, but they will reduce your actual seen results (things like partial resists and crit suppression for casters aren't going to change your gearing as a caster).

One of the biggest reasons hunters and destruction warlocks are able to do top dps now is because there is basically nothing for them to screw up. You press your one button over and over, and you get a result that is as close to the theory as one can get. Those classes are conducive to that, because the theory has proven that adding something more complex actually reduces your overall dps. Not everyone can play a class that requires you to make a judgment call every couple of seconds in order to optimize dps, but anyone can spam a button, and it certainly makes getting out of the fire easier if you have nothing else to pay attention to.

Quite frankly, the game is simple enough that the margin of difference, even for the most complex classes, is rarely very much. Spamming a macro will get you consistent dps because you can't screw it up, and it minimizes the impact of latency. If a more complex rotation or priority system allows for better ideal dps but requires more skillful execution, not everyone will be able to do that. Many of us eagerly anticipate the 3.0 changes as we believe our personal skill will set us apart from the button mashers, especially in certain classes. One of the things that makes me more excited to play my enhancement shaman is the potential for it to be complex and interesting. I look forward to the same thing being true of my warlock as well. Plenty of us will be quite happy to see the people that think they are great just because they can use a spreadsheet and press one button over and over drop off the charts when playing skillfully actually matters. But the sad reality is the difference is probably never going to be as significant as we would like to think it is, especially in a game where the single most important factor is the gear you have.
#261SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Sydane View Post
If the theory and sims determines an "ideal" rotation based on a priority system, and your ingame tests show that you can't match that dps, all that proves is your own inability to match the execution of the sim, not a flaw in the theory. There are many extraneous things that influence actual ingame execution, from lag to player awareness. Sometimes the sim can create an impossibly ideal situation, and if that is the case it would need to be addressed (for instance if it wasn't including latency and was creating a perfect rotation that would never happen). Other times things don't need to be included in calculations because they affect everything equally, but they will reduce your actual seen results (things like partial resists and crit suppression for casters aren't going to change your gearing as a caster).
What a polite way to say 'you suck'. Try it yourself. Do better than I am, please.

Originally Posted by Sydane View Post
One of the biggest reasons hunters and destruction warlocks are able to do top dps now is because there is basically nothing for them to screw up. You press your one button over and over, and you get a result that is as close to the theory as one can get. Those classes are conducive to that, because the theory has proven that adding something more complex actually reduces your overall dps. Not everyone can play a class that requires you to make a judgment call every couple of seconds in order to optimize dps, but anyone can spam a button, and it certainly makes getting out of the fire easier if you have nothing else to pay attention to.
All classes are supposed to be doing equal DPS in raids. If only hunters and warlocks can do 'perfect' damage rotations in a raid, who do you think they will stack in raids over us? You're explination only proves my contention that they need to adjust the mechanics of MW and our cooldowns to allow us to have a 'perfect' damage rotation. If they can't we wont compete. If we don't compete, we won't raid. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Sydane View Post
Quite frankly, the game is simple enough that the margin of difference, even for the most complex classes, is rarely very much. Spamming a macro will get you consistent dps because you can't screw it up, and it minimizes the impact of latency. If a more complex rotation or priority system allows for better ideal dps but requires more skillful execution, not everyone will be able to do that. Many of us eagerly anticipate the 3.0 changes as we believe our personal skill will set us apart from the button mashers, especially in certain classes. One of the things that makes me more excited to play my enhancement shaman is the potential for it to be complex and interesting. I look forward to the same thing being true of my warlock as well. Plenty of us will be quite happy to see the people that think they are great just because they can use a spreadsheet and press one button over and over drop off the charts when playing skillfully actually matters. But the sad reality is the difference is probably never going to be as significant as we would like to think it is, especially in a game where the single most important factor is the gear you have.
Again, wonderful way to say 'you suck'. Again, I say 'show me the numbers'. But you are right. Spamming a button won't let me 'screw up'. The problem is that I prioritized my spells EXACTLY the way they are listed on the simulator. MW_LvB, MW_LB, FS, SS, LL, ES, LS. If FS is down, I cast it ahead of SS regardless. When MW procs, I cast LvB regardless of the cooldowns of my other abilities. If both shocks and SS are down, and MW isnt up, I use Lava Lash. If my dot is up, all other abilities are on cooldowns and MW is not up, I use Earth Shock or LS. If I get a quick 5 stack of MW and LvB isn't up, I cast MW_LB. Its all very 'simple' I know.

Unfortunately for me, the burden of proof doesn't rest on my shoulders. It rests on you to show me that I am wrong!
#262SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mman
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Why wouldn't it be better in a raid? Unless our melee damage is less than our spell casting damage...
In a non-raid situation the spell DPS gained through doing a priority system might not be enough to make up for the melee dps loss of not doing a cast sequence. However, the raid buffs could be enough to make the spell dps gained through a priority system more than the melee dps lost. Our spell dps does not need to bigger portion of our overall dps for this to be true.


Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Unfortunately for me, the burden of proof doesn't rest on my shoulders. It rests on you to show me that I am wrong!
This would be true if you had proven anything. Unfortunately everybody else has more evidence than you do (or at least what you have shown to us). The only thing you have proven is the inability for you to match the simulator, not that a cast sequence is supperior.
#263SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Just remember, that simulator is not for lvl 80 yet. Some new mechanics are probably bit off too. LvB in simulator is the first rank at lvl 75, other stuff is lvl 70.
#264SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Just remember, that simulator is not for lvl 80 yet. Some new mechanics are probably bit off too. LvB in simulator is the first rank at lvl 75, other stuff is lvl 70.
Game mechanics, aside from the rating needed for 1% increase, don't change from level 70 to level 80. If the simulator is ONLY going to work for level 70, then why are we using it?
#265SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Mman View Post
In a non-raid situation the spell DPS gained through doing a priority system might not be enough to make up for the melee dps loss of not doing a cast sequence. However, the raid buffs could be enough to make the spell dps gained through a priority system more than the melee dps lost. Our spell dps does not need to bigger portion of our overall dps for this to be true.
Even with my own 'rotation', I assumed that MW_LvB and MW_LB AND FS are all ALREADY given priority over SS and LL.

Originally Posted by Mman View Post
This would be true if you had proven anything. Unfortunately everybody else has more evidence than you do (or at least what you have shown to us). The only thing you have proven is the inability for you to match the simulator, not that a cast sequence is supperior.
Then they should feel free to post their BETA dps results here for all to see, and explain exactly what they did as I have. No one has 'proven' anything. When YO!'s Simulator was released, it was well vetted by the player community when they compared its results with in game testing. No such effort, outside of mine, has been made for this simulator.
#266SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Game mechanics, aside from the rating needed for 1% increase, don't change from level 70 to level 80. If the simulator is ONLY going to work for level 70, then why are we using it?
Spell ranks might make a difference.

Thanks for making an effort to validate the sim, but I think it's a bit too early for that. I am actually thinking how to implement a fixed rotation system to the sim, in addition to the priority system. I'm open minded for every possibility. Just trying to make a good sim here, not prove anything.

I read your post on the WotLK thread about FT normalization to 1.5 and 3.0 speeds. My sim does not take that into account. So, I just want to know that this mechanic is correct, before I change it to the sim.


I read someone reporting high LL crits. Is LL affected by the 50% off hand penalty or not? Someone also said, the crits are affected by Elemental Fury, which sounds wierd.
#267SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hothgor
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Spell ranks might make a difference.
True, but the additional melee ranks would also offset those. IMHO, the simulator should be based on level 80 ratings, spells and abilities. We may only have 1-2 weeks of fun at level 70 before WotLK comes out, and I'd hate to see the simulator wasted if it really is designed for only level 70 combat.

Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Thanks for making an effort to validate the sim, but I think it's a bit too early for that. I am actually thinking how to implement a fixed rotation system to the sim, in addition to the priority system. I'm open minded for every possibility. Just trying to make a good sim here, not prove anything.
Yeah, I'm not trying to be an ass about it, I just want to min/max our damage in practical settings. What if it turns out that a priority system does 1% more damage than a simple macro? Would that be worth the hassle of blandly staring at our cooldowns and weapon procs for 4 straight hours at a time? It hardly seems fun to have to put so much effort into maximizing our damage while all the other classes can just play their classes. *shrug*

Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I read your post on the WotLK thread about FT normalization to 1.5 and 3.0 speeds. My sim does not take that into account. So, I just want to know that this mechanic is correct, before I change it to the sim.
The wiki seems to indicate that the range is in fact 1.3 to 4.0. It's hard to imagine that I've spent the past 5 years playing wow under the assumption of the 1.5 to 3.0 range, however. It would also be the first instance of blizzard balancing a 'spell coefficient' around a sub 1.5 second casting spell. I will check with some white weapons tonight to be sure.
Flametongue Weapon - Spell - World of Warcraft The comments seem to also indicate the lower boundary to be 1.5 seconds as well.

Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I read someone reporting high LL crits. Is LL affected by the 50% off hand penalty or not? Someone also said, the crits are affected by Elemental Fury, which sounds wierd.
I was getting 2100-2300 LL crits on the beta. That would seem to indicate its base weapon damage and not 50%.

Last edited by Hothgor : 09/19/08 at 8:15 PM.
#268SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3mek
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
TrI was getting 2100-2300 LL crits on the beta. That would seem to indicate its base weapon damage and not 50%.
Follow-up question: what kind of damage does a WF proc from Lava Lash do?
#269SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
True, but the additional melee ranks would also offset those. IMHO, the simulator should be based on level 80 ratings, spells and abilities. We may only have 1-2 weeks of fun at level 70 before WotLK comes out, and I'd hate to see the simulator wasted if it really is designed for only level 70 combat.
Level 80 might be available as separate exe in next version. What are all the things I have to remember to change...ratings, spell ranks, armor reduction formula(or value in the formula) I think. Reistance formula maybe...what else?
#270SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by mek View Post
Follow-up question: what kind of damage does a WF proc from Lava Lash do?
I haven't tested this actually. I'll check tonight!
#271SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by mek View Post
Follow-up question: what kind of damage does a WF proc from Lava Lash do?
It does off hand windfury damage, no difference.
#272SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
I was wrong, FT scales from 1.3 to 4.0 weapon speeds.
#273SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hothgor
Fresh from the Beta. I did find out that Windfury is still bugged for ranks 6-8, and SS still doesn't show up int he combat log as far as I could tell. HOWEVER, melee attacks are no longer consuming SS charges. This is good news of course. In a few other tests, WF-5 was being outdamageg by the offhand flametongue weapon damage

Paper Doll Stats Unbuffed:
2298 AP
1238 Spell Power
8.68 MHit
2.68 SHit
25.23 MCrit
21.67 SHit
1.83 Haste
129 Str
439 Agi
386 Int

Talent Spec:

Test 1

This was a 12 minute fight. 0/5 UR, 3/3 SS and 3/3 IES, however due to mana issues I did not use Static Shock at all. Because WF is still broken, and the fact that FT is doing more damage than WF is presently, I used dual FT enchants. For this testing purpose, I used the following macro:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Earth Shock, Lava Burst, Lava Lash;

The results were interesting!

Length of Test: 12 minutes
Total Damage: 1450291
DPS: 2014.3

Ability         Count        Damage       %          High        Low
Lava Burst       70          411915     31.4         6829        4334 
Melee            808         360235     27.5      
FT Weapon        614         257189     19.6        
Lava Lash        104         95940       7.3         2733        541
Flame Shock      70          84713       6.5
Earth Shock      35          60574       4.6
FS Dot           113         41262       3.1
Pretty high damage for Lava Burst and Lava Lash!

Test 2

Same Macro, but 5/5 UR

Talent Spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Length of Test: 12 minutes
Total Damage: 1478905
DPS 2054

Ability        Count        Damage        %        High        Low
Lava burst       72         417056      30.9       6930        4444
Melee            829        377089      27.9
FT Weapon        609        245501      18.2
Lava Lash        107        109056       8.1       2853        559
Flame Shock      72         85184        6.3
Earth Shock      36         71981        5.3
FS Dot           120        43335        3.2
The spell damage portion of our overall damage with dual FT is around ~65%(~55% with MH WF)!!! Flametongue Weapon does NOT seem to be proccing off every hit in either test!

Test 3

My final test for the night! Same macro, but instead of equiping [Savage Gladiator's Cleaver] I used [Savage Gladiator's Spellblade] . Note that it is a MH only weapon!

Talent Spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Length of Test: 12 minutes
Total Damage: 1547292
DPS: 2149

Ability        Count        Damage        %        High        Low
Lava Burst      72          439407      31.6       6832        5009
Melee          1122         340137      24.5
FT Weapon       707         290991      20.9
Lava Lash       107         106116       7.6       2495        555
Flame Shock     72          97276        7.0
Earth Shock     36          72916        5.2
FS Dot          112         43925        3.2
Even with a caster MAIN HAND weapon with FT, it was quite a bit of an upgrade. Hope you found this info useful!

Last edited by Hothgor : 09/22/08 at 4:21 PM.
#274SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Regarding Lava Lash

I took off all of my equipment and bought myself a nice shiny [Jambiya] . The listed damage range was 29-34 damage, according to my character sheet. I only tested this with flametongue enchant and only did a few attacks, but without any gear and procs, there was little need for a large sample size.


Min / Max
Weapon Damage Range: 29 34
Lava Lash Hits 37 40
Lava Lash Crits 113 116

Conclusions:
Damage is calculated using the 50% offhand penalty
Given the damage range, its reasonable to assume that Lava Lash crits get a damage bonus from both Elemental Fury AND Melee Crit Bonus (IE 300%)

We need to find out if this is a bug or not!
#275SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Now with Elemental Weapons changed, does the 30% affect only the bonus spelldamage FT gives or the whole spelldamage which FT damage is calculated from?
#276SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Hothgor has a point, at the end of the day we need to be able to prove that its possible to match what happens in game in the sim.

Now of course personal ability will come into it, and as long as SOMEONE can do the same dps as the sim, we can have confidence that the sim is accurate. Tukez has put in a fantastic effort to get things right despite Blizzard bugging different things out on each and every build. To my knowledge we haven't yet had a build that actually does what they claim it should.

So with some big assumptions :

The live build does what it says it should, ie: there are no "bugs"/undocumented features AND

Tukez manages to get the sim to the point where it matches what the live says its doing.

IF we can reach that situation then it should be perfectly possible to setup the sim to match exactly your situation in live. Then as Hothgor said it shouldn't make a blind bit of difference if you are soloing on a training dummy or fully raid buffed, as long as you enter the data into the sim exactly as you are setup in game. It should be possible for the best players to accurately match what the sim says.

If the best players exceed the sim dps or come up short on the sim dps then there MUST be something either in game or in the sim that's not behaving correctly. It should never be the case that the sim projects numbers unobtainable by the best players using exactly those stats and buffs in game.

However we are not at that stage yet as there are too many rapid changes and BUGS to accurately match dps. I hope we will get there soon.
#277SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Now with Elemental Weapons changed, does the 30% affect only the bonus spelldamage FT gives or the whole spelldamage which FT damage is calculated from?
Its no longer 15% bonus proc damage, but now 30% spell damage bonus. The max rank spell went from adding 211 spell damage to 274 spell damage.
#278SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
#279SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
Not only that, but on the BETA realms, a MH 1.6 speed 75 dps 355 spell power weapon is out dpsing a MH 2.6 speed 130 dps weapon. How ironic would it be if we went after elemental shaman gear over hunter gear?
#280SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
[Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic]
[Valorous Earthshatter Hauberk]
[Valorous Earthshatter Chestguard]

Actual this time Blizzard done our set right. It's good. It's even better than hunter t7. Elemental piece is lot worser but set bonus is nice.
Our set have lot of intellect but item level formula give more stat when spreading those that int is actual gain. If count only dps stats and give int value of 1. All other stats/ratings get value of 2 and ap get 1.
Ignoring sockets+bonus. All have the same.

Hunter set get 486points.
Our set get 486points.
Rogue set get 450points.
[Valorous Bonescythe Breastplate]

Actual int is even more valuable but ep numbers at 80lvl is still unsolved.
#281SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Embar
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
I went down to the servants in Blasted Lands yesterday with my elemental and enhancement sets. Surprisingly, DPSing as enhancement in a full elemental set with dual FT came out pretty close (+- 100dps in my current gear) to DPSing in proper enhancement gear. However, since SS is not showing in logs right now and SS was still bugged when I tested, this is not definitive - I'll try and get some proper logs later, but if I can replicate this consistently it'd be rather odd.
#282SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Embar View Post
I went down to the servants in Blasted Lands yesterday with my elemental and enhancement sets. Surprisingly, DPSing as enhancement in a full elemental set with dual FT came out pretty close (+- 100dps in my current gear) to DPSing in proper enhancement gear. However, since SS is not showing in logs right now and SS was still bugged when I tested, this is not definitive - I'll try and get some proper logs later, but if I can replicate this consistently it'd be rather odd.
Searing Totem wasn't included in my posted data. I figured it would offset the lack of SS dps showing up. If I included both, I'm fairly certain that my test would still show me doing 60%+ spell damage. When I get home tonight, I'm swapping out my beta premade enhancement set for the elemental set, just to see what happens. I believe it has the potential to do more damage than I am currently seeing, simply because of the extra 600+ spell power!!
#283SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Tukez am I missing someplace where I should input what level shaman I'm running the sim for? (Which would determine what spell ranks are being used I assume?) I can't find an option for it.
#284SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Tukez am I missing someplace where I should input what level shaman I'm running the sim for? (Which would determine what spell ranks are being used I assume?) I can't find an option for it.
Different levels are not done yet. Hold on.
#285SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Different levels are not done yet. Hold on.
Gotcha. I'm trying to get EP values for my beta char at 76 and they're producing some sort of wonky values (3.51 EP for crit).
#286SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3h4rr0d
Hope it's not OT here or if it has been mentioned already, but I have just logged on PTR to check out what did they do with the linked PVP gear (str got just rolled over to AP same as on our tier sets) but I have noticed more important thing. Surefooted enchant is changed to +10 hit +10 crit which is rather imba for us.

Also, seeing how caster items look rather good for us, has anyone tried grabbing 2 elemental tier 6 pieces for the set bonus yet, or is it completely insane thought? I was thinking about chest/shoulders+swp enhancement stuff and head/shoulders+gloves elemental depending on other stuff you have in the slots.
#287SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Gotcha. I'm trying to get EP values for my beta char at 76 and they're producing some sort of wonky values (3.51 EP for crit).
I'll do level 80 as separate exe first, because it's just easy. I'll consider adding an option for level later, if I have some spare time.
#288SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
The lvl 80 version would be fine, all I'm really trying to do is get a list of items from around 76-80 that are actually upgrades on the beta.
#289SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Two elemental t6 pieces is good idea but two set bonus is still only spell crit and not combined crit. Shoulders are very good but other parts aren't even close at best slot items. Resto shaman maybe can make elemental 2*set useful.

Elemental set bonus is about 70ep(45*1.15ep + 35*0.5ep) + 15mp5 for us.

(2) Set: Whenever you have an air totem, an earth totem, a fire totem, and a water totem active at the same time, you gain 15 mana per 5 sec, 35 spell critical strike rating, and 45 spell power.
#290SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by h4rr0d View Post
Hope it's not OT here or if it has been mentioned already, but I have just logged on PTR to check out what did they do with the linked PVP gear (str got just rolled over to AP same as on our tier sets) but I have noticed more important thing. Surefooted enchant is changed to +10 hit +10 crit which is rather imba for us.

Also, seeing how caster items look rather good for us, has anyone tried grabbing 2 elemental tier 6 pieces for the set bonus yet, or is it completely insane thought? I was thinking about chest/shoulders+swp enhancement stuff and head/shoulders+gloves elemental depending on other stuff you have in the slots.
Discussion of gear and upgrades should be made in the main Enh Shammy WotLK thread, this thread is for the EnhSim simulator, and stuff that directly affects the sim.
#291SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
Appropriate noise needs to be made on the beta forums and through in-game reporting on this topic. We really don't want to end up gearing spell power over attack power in the end.
#292SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hothgor
After some interesting testing last night, I decided to test my DPS using ONLY elemental gear on the premade BETA realm. It should be noted initially that I was only able to sustain this for about 5 minutes before going OOM, due primarily to my super low attack power. In a typical raid situation, this would or should not be a problem at all. I used the same macro from the 3 previous tests:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Earth Shock, Lava Burst, Lava Lash;

My Talent Spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

My Paper Doll Stats
970 AP
2228 SP
7.59 MHit
1.98 SHit
18.93 MCrit
20.78 SCrit
0 Haste
121 Str
71 Agil
572 Int

The results:

Damage: 675414
DPS: 2251.38

Ability          Damage        Count        %        MAX        MIN
Lava Burst       200233         29        32.7       7358       5672
FT Weapon        172129         380       28.1
Melee            102043         448       16.7
Flame Shock      45623          30         7.4       2590       1068
Lava Lash        37342          44         6.1       1760       381
Earth Shock      32261          14         5.3       4047       1988
FS Dot           22897          48         3.7
As you can see, this bested my previous best of ~2100 dps with enhancement gear and a MH spell power weapon. Spell Power seems to be THAT good DPS wise, and in my opinion should spark some serious discussion on how exactly we are going to gear ourselves.

Last edited by Hothgor : 09/22/08 at 4:25 PM.
#293SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Skiace
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
As you can see, this bested my previous best of ~2100 dps with enhancement gear and a MH spell power weapon. Spell Power seems to be THAT good DPS wise, and in my opinion should spark some serious discussion on how exactly we are going to gear ourselves.
This needs to spark discussion with the devs about how they expect us to gear. There's little discussion to be had amongst ourselves, as all signs are pointing toward gearing spellpower right now. To reiterate my last post, we need to be making a lot of noise about this.

Edit: I see Malan has started a thread on the topic: WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Koraa - major issue with Enhancement gear

Last edited by Skiace : 09/21/08 at 4:07 AM.
#294SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Urgok
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
I was bored last friday and ran a sim of a well geared t6 Elemental Shaman that decided to spec Enhancement. Sorry for the formating.
mh_speed			          1.6
oh_speed			          1.3
mh_dps				39.0
oh_dps				87.3
mh_crit				28.22
oh_crit				28.22
mh_hit				10.434	
oh_hit				10.434
mh_expertise_rating		44	
oh_expertise_rating		44
ap				      722	
haste				11
armor_penetration		 0	
str				      106
agi				        99
int				      428
spellpower			      878
spell_crit			        28.860
spell_hit			        13.543	
base_mana		    2678
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               221.87     14.36%    121.65
windfury              0.00      0%          0.00
flametongue     548.53     35.51%    128.69
stormstrike       22.23       1.44%     5.27      17.70     19.58%
lava lash           22.68      1.47%     14.71     21.40     23.67%
searing totem   186.93     12.1%     0.00
earth shock         0.00      0%         0.00      0.00      0.00%
flame shock     145.75      9.44%     4.59      13.70     15.16%
frost shock          0.00      0%         0.00      0.00      0.00%
lava burst           0.00      0%         0.00      0.00      0.00%
lightning bolt     396.81    25.69%   9.30      37.59     41.59%
lightning shield    0.00      0%         0.00      0.00      0.00%
misc                    0.00      0%        0.00
DPS 1544.81
MPS 90.39
MP2min 10847.07
Full t6 using a Brutal Gladiator Spellpower dagger and that 1.3 speed dagger from Heroic MGT. No enchantments and I do not think I gemmed anything, but I'd have to double check. I also left the Raid Buff and Debuff section completely blank. If this is accurate this build could easily out dps my current Shaman by a good 3 to 400 points, and I'm assuming the sim's dps value is inflated.

Last edited by Urgok : 09/21/08 at 4:51 AM.
#295SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Low Life
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
Appropriate noise needs to be made on the beta forums and through in-game reporting on this topic. We really don't want to end up gearing spell power over attack power in the end.
I don't see a reason why we wouldn't want to, if it gave us proper DPS and scaled well enough through different content. However, it'd need to be made clear which one we're supposed to pick. At the moment it seems like SP and AP gear are quite close to equal, if they want us to gear SP then AP gear should be close to useless, and vice versa.

Personally I'd love to run around in SP gear, it'd truly make us unique and I wouldn't need to gather a different set if I just wanted to try a different spec for a while.

If I find time I might try to come up with stats for low-quality geared enhancement and elemental shaman sets, so I can check how much the difference is there (to compare scaling)
#296SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
EnhSim1.0.3

1.0.3
-Elemental Weapons changed to increase FT's spellpower by 10/20/30%, not the final damage.
-Static Shock now increases LS charges by 2/4/6.
-Madness of the Betrayer changed to increase armor penetration rating by 42.
-Fixed resistance formula. This change should now result in slightly less spell damage.
-Lvl 80 as separate exe, define LVL80 when compiling.
-In EnhSimGui, you need to specify the executable instead of directory.

enhsim - Google Code

I hope I remembered all the level 80 stuff. Sorry about the slow pace of development, I've been busy with school.

Btw, those info box warnings in GUI are not correct with lvl 80.

Last edited by tukez : 09/21/08 at 6:06 AM.
#297SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
If you check lootrank and 80lvl loots you will see that elemental gear prbolem is 70lvl stuff not 80lvl. Our t7 is muich better than elemental brothers. It's even better than rogue set. Our ap scaling is ridiculous good. 0.65dps per ap. It's almoust double as good that it is now. I'm not against spell damage weapons becouse those are good. But spell damage gear isn't so hot at 80lvl. You all must remember that ratings value drop almoust half when sim updates to 80lvl. This give ap gear even bigger lead. At 70lvl only spellpower best slot items are [Pendant of Sunfire] and [Loop of Forged Power]. Both these are crafterd so no lootdrama conflicted. I really scare that Blizz fix would only cause nerf to some spell damage component. Our class is fine now.
On the other hand now our best slot items include 6 mail and only 2 leather. All these are pure melee gear.


Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
It's not fair to compare BT and Sunwell items.


First 80lvl ep values. I edited bestDpsBuild.txt config to match reality at started gear. I reduced all ratings and percent from gear. Dps/ap dropped but dps still went little up. Hit > agi > crit > exp. Cap spell hit and stack agi after that.
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3646.36
ap                        1         0.52      3802.02        155.66
crit rating               1.91      0.99      3745.30        98.94
hit rating                2.78      1.44      3790.52        144.16
expertise rating          1.66      0.86      3716.00        69.63
haste rating              1.20      0.63      3771.39        125.03
armor penetration rating  0.52      0.27      3669.51        23.14
spellpower                1.19      0.62      3832.03        185.67
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.00
intelligence              1.30
With these values spellpower gear can't match agi/ap gear.

Ep values at wowhead.(gem hit to spell cap if you use these values.)

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/21/08 at 7:15 AM.
#298SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
If you check lootrank and 80lvl loots you will see that elemental gear prbolem is 70lvl stuff not 80lvl. Our t7 is muich better than elemental brothers. It's even better than rogue set. Our ap scaling is ridiculous good. 0.65dps per ap. It's almoust double as good that it is now. I'm not against spell damage weapons becouse those are good. But spell damage gear isn't so hot at 80lvl. You all must remember that ratings value drop almoust half when sim updates to 80lvl. This give ap gear even bigger lead. At 70lvl only spellpower best slot items are [Pendant of Sunfire] and [Loop of Forged Power]. Both these are crafterd so no lootdrama conflicted. I really scare that Blizz fix would only cause nerf to some spell damage component. Our class is fine now.
On the other hand now our best slot items include 6 mail and only 2 leather. All these are pure melee gear.



It's not fair to compare BT and Sunwell items.
On my test, I was comparing level 80 blue Melee gear with level 80 blue spell gear. They clearly do similar damage to each other. Level 80 ep values should be different than level 70 ones, right?
#299SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.0.6

1.0.6
-Fixed uptime statistics minor bug.
-Removed set bonus Skyshatter Harness. Added set bonuses Skyshatter Harness(2), Skyshatter Harness(4), Skyshatter Regalia(2), Skyshatter Regalia(4), Naxx Melee(2), Naxx Melee(4), Naxx Nuker(2) and Naxx Nuker(4).
-Added trinkets Fury of the Five Flights, Grim Troll, Loatheb's Shadow and Mirror of Truth.
-Fixed GUI bug: GUI wasn't saving/loading the enhsim.exe path correctly.

enhsim - Google Code

4 piece set bonuses include 2 piece set bonus.
Trinkets are modeled like their lvl 70 counterparts.
#300SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
On my test, I was comparing level 80 blue Melee gear with level 80 blue spell gear. They clearly do similar damage to each other. Level 80 ep values should be different than level 70 ones, right?
You tested without raid buffs. You tested in buggy PTR(this is huge). I tested with optimal condition with sim. You tested couple dozen minute. I runned sim 25000h. Level 70 ep and level 80 ep values is clearly different becouse rating drops. Both values are in this thread. You can easily say if simulator do something wrong. But I can't say how scientific your test was. At 70lvl there wasn't any optimized gear to these mechanic but at 80lvl there is. Those 80lvl ep values what I posted show clearly that melee gear is strictly better at 80lvl. I know those values aren't perfect but those are best we have now. In game testing is good for testing how mechanic work but in game test isn't very good to test dps. In best scenario someone test how mechanic work and then someone add that to sim. Then sim work just like real game but it can produce lot more numbers. If we wanna know how we do good dps we want lot of those numbers. You scored 2200dps in your test but we want to know how to do 4000dps. It's good that there is in-game testers but actual numbers isn't interesting. Maybe if you re-produce least 15minute test with all raid buffs when ptr is stable enough and all our skills work there. Then those numbers can actual tell about gearing for raiding.
#301SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
You tested without raid buffs. You tested in buggy PTR(this is huge). I tested with optimal condition with sim. You tested couple dozen minute. I runned sim 25000h. Level 70 ep and level 80 ep values is clearly different becouse rating drops. Both values are in this thread. You can easily say if simulator do something wrong. But I can't say how scientific your test was. At 70lvl there wasn't any optimized gear to these mechanic but at 80lvl there is. Those 80lvl ep values what I posted show clearly that melee gear is strictly better at 80lvl. I know those values aren't perfect but those are best we have now. In game testing is good for testing how mechanic work but in game test isn't very good to test dps. In best scenario someone test how mechanic work and then someone add that to sim. Then sim work just like real game but it can produce lot more numbers. If we wanna know how we do good dps we want lot of those numbers. You scored 2200dps in your test but we want to know how to do 4000dps. It's good that there is in-game testers but actual numbers isn't interesting. Maybe if you re-produce least 15minute test with all raid buffs when ptr is stable enough and all our skills work there. Then those numbers can actual tell about gearing for raiding.
I still don't understand this argument. The simulator should be able to tell me what my damage should be raid buffed or self buffed. If it only works while raid buffed then its broken and buggy. While 25,000 hour tests are wonderful to filter out noise, I am more concerned with real playing conditions...and last time I checked, there were not 25,000 hour long boss fights!
#302SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Sim work fine if you turn raid buffs off. But why anyone would be interesting optimize damage at solo content?
Just compare 25-man naxx gear.

Valorous Earthshatter War-Kilt
1125 Armor
+67 Agility
+66 Stamina
+66 Intellect
Red Socket
Yellow Socket
Socket Bonus: +9 Stamina
Equip: Improves hit rating by 36 (0.97% @ L80).
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 51 (0.98% @ L80).
Equip: Increases attack power by 170..
Valorous Earthshatter Kilt
1125 Armor
+99 Stamina
+77 Intellect
Yellow Socket
Blue Socket
Socket Bonus: +6 Hit Rating
Equip: Improves hit rating by 42 (1.13% @ L80).
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 59 (1.13% @ L80).
Equip: Increases spell power by 98.
Enhancement gear have:
+67agility
+170 ap
=~304ep
Elemental gear have:
+11 int
+6 hit
+8crit
+98 spell power
=~161ep
Understood?

Edit: Just look those gear pieces. Enhancement War-kilt give only 28spell power less than elemental kilt when you factor talents. If you say that elemental gear do same damage than enhancemen gear then you have to spec full elemental. And if you don't trust sim then you could point what is wrong there?

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/21/08 at 7:32 PM.
#303SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Sim work fine if you turn raid buffs off. But why anyone would be interesting optimize damage at solo content?
Just compare 25-man naxx gear.

Valorous Earthshatter War-Kilt
1125 Armor
+67 Agility
+66 Stamina
+66 Intellect
Red Socket
Yellow Socket
Socket Bonus: +9 Stamina
Equip: Improves hit rating by 36 (0.97% @ L80).
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 51 (0.98% @ L80).
Equip: Increases attack power by 170..
Valorous Earthshatter Kilt
1125 Armor
+99 Stamina
+77 Intellect
Yellow Socket
Blue Socket
Socket Bonus: +6 Hit Rating
Equip: Improves hit rating by 42 (1.13% @ L80).
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 59 (1.13% @ L80).
Equip: Increases spell power by 98.
Enhancement gear have:
+67agility
+170 ap
=~304ep
Elemental gear have:
+11 int
+6 hit
+8crit
+98 spell power
=~161ep
Understood?
Because most people cant test their raid damage on the raid targeting dummy with raid buffs for extended periods of time, and boss fights in a raid vary in complexity and don't allow conductive testing. The next best thing is solo testing. Hence we tested Yo's simulator in a solo situation until we were sure it was accurate, THEN worried about raid damage.

Understood?
#304SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
You are both arguing different points.

Hothgor is making a very simple point : He sets up the sim to match his gear and buffs and does some tests. He runs the sim WHICH EXACTLY MATCHES HIS TEST, he gets 2200 dps say and the sim says 3200 dps. Now one of two things is happening here. The sim doesn't match the game, and he's uncovered a bug, or Hothgor sucks at Enh Shammy dps.

Either way the point he is making is very very simple. It is possible to setup the sim to simulate your exact setup and predict your dps, if you are getting substantially more or less dps in game then that suggests the sim is NOT modelling the game and needs attention.


Pitbuller's point is entirely different, he is looking to see the extreme min max effects to see what the sim can tell us about the nature of the changes Blizzard are implementing and how that points towards gear selection, gemming, glyphing, enchanting etc to maximise our dps.


BOTH arguments are equally valid. I personally favour Hothgor's approach at present for one extremely simple reason, if the sim can't accurately match what you can do in game then its internal coding is fundamentally flawed, Assuming ofc that you set up completely matching variables and follow exactly the rotation/priority you enter into the sim.

We must be able to match game values to sim values if we can't the sim won't scale and will be useless at end game raiding. ie: You need to prove its got the basics right before you stress test it with ultimate min/maxing.

PS. I have faith in Tukez & the community to be able to make the sim work. However we must be able to prove it works and its not just some hypothetical unobtainable numbers its spitting out.
#305SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
This is something that will have to be checked once the build stabilizes to make sure the Sim is reporting real data, that said at this stage of the game you really can't expect that much accuracy. Stormstrike isn't reporting in Combatlogs or on damage meters (and for parses it shows as belonging to nil) and that's just the tip of the iceberg in regards to what isn't currently working as intended in the Beta/PTR.

Also don't forget that we are a very bursty class, very RNG oriented. That's why we run the sims for as many hours as we do, because Windfury procs can vary greatly. Also until you are spell hit capped that can have a huge effect on what the meters will show and even if you are capped that normally will mean your crit will be low which means less procs, etc.

If the sim can get within +/- 10% of the value of a Beta test run on a targeting dummy with as many variables accounted for as possible then it will have proven itself reliable in my book. But we are still quite a ways away from having a stable enough mechanics for a test like that.
#306SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3darkhorse
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
You are both arguing different points.

Hothgor is making a very simple point : He sets up the sim to match his gear and buffs and does some tests. He runs the sim WHICH EXACTLY MATCHES HIS TEST, he gets 2200 dps say and the sim says 3200 dps. Now one of two things is happening here. The sim doesn't match the game, and he's uncovered a bug, or Hothgor sucks at Enh Shammy dps.

BOTH arguments are equally valid. I personally favour Hothgor's approach at present for one extremely simple reason, if the sim can't accurately match what you can do in game then its internal coding is fundamentally flawed, Assuming ofc that you set up completely matching variables and follow exactly the rotation/priority you enter into the sim.

We must be able to match game values to sim values if we can't the sim won't scale and will be useless at end game raiding. ie: You need to prove its got the basics right before you stress test it with ultimate min/maxing.
I have been looking through Hothgor's posts & can't find any where he actually gives the results of a simulation. All I could find was his postings about his results of his personal beta tests? If you could point it out to me that would be good because it does change the entire equation.

Currently, it looks like hothgor has posted a series of findings made from tests on a very bugged & nebulous server. The shear fact that there are so many bugs (such as WF not working) will in most cases invalidate all findings due to inaccurate data collection. Yes his data might be accurate now but it has no real use for the future when the bugs are fixed.

You cannot make a comparison between two setups when only one of those are functional.

The other thing to remember is that you CANNOT compare the current (broken) server (with broken mechanics) to a "theoretically correct" simulation. There is NO comparison possible at the moment. They are both working on two different mechanics & basis. It is akin to a druid plugging their numbers into a priest simulator because they are both healers.

Personal Server testing will become important in the future. When the server is stable & has all the major bugs fixed, live testing with dummies will become necessary to validate the simulations. Until that stage live tests are largely a meaningless statistic as they will change each bug fix.
#307SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
I have been looking through Hothgor's posts & can't find any where he actually gives the results of a simulation. All I could find was his postings about his results of his personal beta tests? If you could point it out to me that would be good because it does change the entire equation.

Currently, it looks like hothgor has posted a series of findings made from tests on a very bugged & nebulous server. The shear fact that there are so many bugs (such as WF not working) will in most cases invalidate all findings due to inaccurate data collection. Yes his data might be accurate now but it has no real use for the future when the bugs are fixed.

You cannot make a comparison between two setups when only one of those are functional.

The other thing to remember is that you CANNOT compare the current (broken) server (with broken mechanics) to a "theoretically correct" simulation. There is NO comparison possible at the moment. They are both working on two different mechanics & basis. It is akin to a druid plugging their numbers into a priest simulator because they are both healers.

Personal Server testing will become important in the future. When the server is stable & has all the major bugs fixed, live testing with dummies will become necessary to validate the simulations. Until that stage live tests are largely a meaningless statistic as they will change each bug fix.
You actually don't know what you are talking about. My testing is showing what different weapon/enchant combination's do in actual testing situation. The only bugs on the BETA realm have to do with Stormstrike and WF weapon. Only the higher ranks of WF weapon are currently bugged on the BETA server. And it's well known that SS does roughly 10% of our damage even on live. The simulator itself indicates that FT/FT weapon enchants do very similar damage (less than ~1% overall) to WF/WF or WF/FT enchants. Its miss leading to say that you can not test these abilities under the current circumstances!
#308SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3darkhorse
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
You actually don't know what you are talking about. My testing is showing what different weapon/enchant combination's do in actual testing situation. The only bugs on the BETA realm have to do with Stormstrike and WF weapon. Only the higher ranks of WF weapon are currently bugged on the BETA server. And it's well known that SS does roughly 10% of our damage even on live. The simulator itself indicates that FT/FT weapon enchants do very similar damage (less than ~1% overall) to WF/WF or WF/FT enchants. Its miss leading to say that you can not test these abilities under the current circumstances!
That is my point. What they are doing is currently meaning less until blizzard fixes the bugs. Until all the bugs have been fixed there is no way to say what is empirically better because you admit that you can't test all the options.

In fact if you look at it further of course your current tests are going to lean towards spell dmg. Two of your biggest Melee attacks (Stormstrike & WF) are broken. Thus the melee component is smaller & the tests become skewed towards the spell dmg side. It is an unbalanced test.

Real life testing will become necessary when the bugs are fixed. Until that time however all anyone who professes "actual beta testing" is presenting data that is unreliable & flawed.

But you have already shown that others can't convince you, so I don't have any expectations that what I say will change your mind.
#309SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hothgor
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
That is my point. What they are doing is currently meaning less until blizzard fixes the bugs. Until all the bugs have been fixed there is no way to say what is empirically better because you admit that you can't test all the options.

In fact if you look at it further of course your current tests are going to lean towards spell dmg. Two of your biggest Melee attacks (Stormstrike & WF) are broken. Thus the melee component is smaller & the tests become skewed towards the spell dmg side. It is an unbalanced test.

Real life testing will become necessary when the bugs are fixed. Until that time however all anyone who professes "actual beta testing" is presenting data that is unreliable & flawed.

But you have already shown that others can't convince you, so I don't have any expectations that what I say will change your mind.
Thats not your point at all because you dont seem to understand how things are working out.

WF/WF with the max rank WF spell is doing within ~1% damage as someone using FT/FT setup. We don't need to discuss WF here because it wont have any bearing on the test except for in the OPPOSITE direction of what you are getting at. If i were to use max rank WF/WF, my hits per 8 seconds would go up dramatically. I would be getting far MORE MW procs, meaning my spell damage portion would go up.

Lets say that for right now, I'm doing ~20% damage with FT/FT and 31% with LvB. If I were to use WF/WF, It would STILL do ~20% of damage with WF attacks, but 33-34% with LvB. See how that works? The missing SS damage IS a problem. However, it will be adding the same damage to all my different tests because I am always casting 1 SS every 9 seconds with the rotation that I am using. With it well known to do ~10% of total DPS, I can get a reasonable approximation of total DPS. However, Searing Totem is ALSO doing ~10% of my total DPS, and I haven't even been INCLUDING these two categories in my test deliberately!!!

The sad thing is, you don't even know why I'm posting these tests! If you were to read the exchanges between myself and Tukez, you would see that I am helping him to iron out the kinks in the program by giving him real world data on Lava Lash mechanics and other aspects. I'd hardly consider that 'worthless'.

And guess what! With all the information punched into the simulator as it is, its giving me a very close approximation to the damage that I am doing on Beta!

Tukez, some problems!

Lava Lash is doing way more damage on BETA than your simulator is indicating. Lava Burst has also been doing ~40% more damage than the simulator seems to be indicating. Is it possible you dont have the correct base spell damage range and damage coefficient in place? Searing totem has done ~240 dps in all 25 test I conducted tonight, but the simulator seems to believe it should be doing 300 or so. SS also seems to be a tad low, but this may be due to the fact that I'm using a spell damage weapon for the MH instead of a beefy melee dps weapon :P

Last edited by Hothgor : 09/22/08 at 6:41 AM.
#310SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3darkhorse
Thank you for testing lava lash. And I am saying that honestly. That is a section of our code that does work correctly so all testing of that component is totally valid.

You can defiantly test the sub components that work for validation & I do thank you for taking the initiative for helping get the lava lash section fully.

My point was the overall data is skewed when any one sub-component is broken. But this is enough back and forth
#311SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Tukez, some problems!

Lava Lash is doing way more damage on BETA than your simulator is indicating. Lava Burst has also been doing ~40% more damage than the simulator seems to be indicating. Is it possible you dont have the correct base spell damage range and damage coefficient in place? Searing totem has done ~240 dps in all 25 test I conducted tonight, but the simulator seems to believe it should be doing 300 or so. SS also seems to be a tad low, but this may be due to the fact that I'm using a spell damage weapon for the MH instead of a beefy melee dps weapon :P
Hard to say. The way of doing it should be, that people figure out how a mechanic work in the game and then I implement it. With Lava Lash, I have been mostly guessing the mechanics.

In the sim, LL is 100% or 125% off hand damage. 50% off hand penatly is applied. It works like a melee attack, but with fire damage. That means, it can miss, dodge, crit and hit. It can be partially resisted, but not fully. Critical strike damage is with melee multiplier...200% or 206%(with RED). Damage is affected by fire damage debuffs.

Make sure you are using the level 80 version of the sim.
LvB coef 57.14%
Lvb base dmg 1230

Searing coef per tick 16.8%
Searing base dmg 90
#312SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
At the moment it's also getting the bonus crit from Elemental Fury though, not sure yet if that's working as intended or a bug.
#313SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Stopokingme View Post
At the moment it's also getting the bonus crit from Elemental Fury though, not sure yet if that's working as intended or a bug.
Are you able to tell me what is the crit bonus with and without Elemental Fury?
#314SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Searing totem use 2.2s cast. But it act like Npc. Npc cast seems lag some unknow time. This thing aply also warlock imp and mage water elemental. Unkown part is also is this lag caused by server lag or new beta mechanic or something what is also in live. So more testing needed. How often searing totem actual fire bolts?
#315SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
I think you should include [Totem of Ancestral Guidance], [Skycall Totem], [Totem of the Void] and [The Skull of Gul'dan] in the sim as they seem to get useful with MW I think.
#316SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Are you able to tell me what is the crit bonus with and without Elemental Fury?
Only level 74 on the beta at the moment, but I can say that my LL crits hit for roughly 280% of the non crit damage. (This is with 4/5 elemental fury)
#317SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
I made config file for 80lvl. Including all raid buffs/debuffs with updated values. Boss armor updated to 10850(same value that boss level test dummy). I used spec what give most damage with current values. Correct if something is wrong here. Stats are just educated guess what those should look when we start raiding at 80lvl. Weapons are epic item 200lvl crafted/pvp/pve. Trinkets are from 70lvl we just don't have any good data about new trinkets.
Some help needed about these:

-Base mana?(Naked mana minus naked int mana value)
-Base strenght?
-Boss armor value range?

This config yield 4179dps but I guess armor value is too low.
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   100
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_penetration_rating     85
ep_spellpower                   300

mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         20.0
oh_crit                         20.0
mh_hit                          8.0
oh_hit                          8.0
mh_expertise_rating             50
oh_expertise_rating             50
ap                              2500
haste                           0
armor_penetration               0
str                             150
agi                             500
int                             500
spellpower                      750
spell_crit                      15
spell_hit                       10.00
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        berserkers_call
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    -
glyph_major2                    -
glyph_major3                    -
glyph_major4                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              fs
rotation_priority2              mw_lvb
rotation_priority3              mw_lb
rotation_priority4              ss
rotation_priority5              ll
rotation_priority6              es
rotation_priority7              ls

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   1/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       drums_of_battle
#318SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
I used spec what give most damage with current values.
I'm curious - did you run the numbers to see that 1% Int is worth more than 5% Lightning Shield damage?

Tukez - can you perhaps give an option to begin combat with a FS- LvB combo? I've been doing this while soloing and its noticeably different when you begin combat with Elemental Devastation up.
#319SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
I'm curious - did you run the numbers to see that 1% Int is worth more than 5% Lightning Shield damage?

Tukez - can you perhaps give an option to begin combat with a FS- LvB combo? I've been doing this while soloing and its noticeably different when you begin combat with Elemental Devastation up.
That would have zero effect even with a bit longer fight...not even talking about hours. Or are you trying to optimize your leveling?
#320SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
+5% lighning shield damage hould be 123dps * 0.05 = 6.15dps.
2% more intellect with [500(base+gear) + 60(int buff) + 30(elixir) + 52(motw)] * 1.1kings = 706int
0.02 * 706 = 14 int.
Int ep value is about 1.33ep and dps/ep value is about 0.53dps/ap.
So 2% int is 14*1.33*0.53 =~ 10dps gain.

But somehow sim give only 2dps gain. Tukez can you check why Ancestral knowledge isn't working right.(this is new problem last time I checked it worked)

Bad news is that our t7 2set bonus is worth of ~12dps.
#321SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
2% more intellect
Its not 2% Int though - in the spec you linked you have 3 points in Ancestral Knowledge, 1 point of that isn't required to reach the next tier, and 1 point = 1%. Therefore the decision is 1% Int, or 5% LS bonus. Which means from what you posted above that the point is probably better off in Improved Shields.
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Or are you trying to optimize your leveling?
Yarr.
#322SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Are you able to tell me what is the crit bonus with and without Elemental Fury?

250% with Elemental Fury and 200% without.

There are no spell partials for Lava Lash, it can have glancing hits if used with a weapon skill that isn't capped but it uses the melee mechanic not the spell one.
#323SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
250% with Elemental Fury and 200% without.

There are no spell partials for Lava Lash, it can have glancing hits if used with a weapon skill that isn't capped but it uses the melee mechanic not the spell one.
250% and 200% don't make any sense. 100% more crit damage with physical means 300% damage. That would also make sense with 4/5 EF giving 280%.

Are you sure about, that there are no partial resists? And I thought glancing hits can happen with white damage only.
#324SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Ancestral Knowledge
Rank 1
Increases your intellect by 2%.
If it would be only 1% then we would be very envy to paladin counter part. They get 3% per point it's also five point talent.
#325SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
+5% lighning shield damage hould be 123dps * 0.05 = 6.15dps.
2% more intellect with [500(base+gear) + 60(int buff) + 30(elixir) + 52(motw)] * 1.1kings = 706int
0.02 * 706 = 14 int.
Int ep value is about 1.33ep and dps/ep value is about 0.53dps/ap.
So 2% int is 14*1.33*0.53 =~ 10dps gain.

But somehow sim give only 2dps gain. Tukez can you check why Ancestral knowledge isn't working right.(this is new problem last time I checked it worked)

Bad news is that our t7 2set bonus is worth of ~12dps.
Might be, that you are doing it wrong. If you increase Ancestral Knowledge, you also have to increase intelligence and spell crit. I know in these cases, it is kind of annoying, but it is consistent with other inputs. In the sim you always input what you see in your char sheet.

Well I don't know how you did the test, but I wasn't able to get 10dps gain. Dps gain was under 6dps. Maybe the EP values you have don't match with so little changes. You might want to try to calculate EP values again with lower ranges.

Then someone might think, that why do you need to input Ancestral Knowledge at all? Ep value calculation needs it. Also if you get 100 int temporary buff(trinket), with full AK, you actually get 110 int.
#326SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Ancestral Knowledge
Rank 1
Increases your intellect by 2%.
If it would be only 1% then we would be very envy to paladin counter part. They get 3% per point it's also five point talent.
Ack, I'm an idiot, for some reason I was reading it as the 5% mana equivalent with intellect.
#327SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Might be, that you are doing it wrong. If you increase Ancestral Knowledge, you also have to increase intelligence and spell crit. I know in these cases, it is kind of annoying, but it is consistent with other inputs. In the sim you always input what you see in your char sheet.

Well I don't know how you did the test, but I wasn't able to get 10dps gain. Dps gain was under 6dps. Maybe the EP values you have don't match with so little changes. You might want to try to calculate EP values again with lower ranges.

Then someone might think, that why do you need to input Ancestral Knowledge at all? Ep value calculation needs it. Also if you get 100 int temporary buff(trinket), with full AK, you actually get 110 int.
Yeah I did inputs wrong. That is actual pretty harsh talent to calculate with sim becouse you have to calculate new ap, int, spell power and spell crit value(Did I forget something?). I rerun sim and I get 7dps increase. It's still better than imp. shields but not much.
#328SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Roywyn
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Is it possible you dont have the correct base spell damage range and damage coefficient in place? Searing totem has done ~240 dps in all 25 test I conducted tonight, but the simulator seems to believe it should be doing 300 or so. SS also seems to be a tad low, but this may be due to the fact that I'm using a spell damage weapon for the MH instead of a beefy melee dps weapon :P
All NPCs have the issue that they don't chain cast.
Searing Totem, Imps, Water Elemental have a significant delay in between casts.
Ballpark 400ms.

Attack - Spell - World of Warcraft, ideally it should be 2.2s between casts, it will be around 2.6/2.7s however.
Best test would be Blasted Lands. Drop a totem, wait until it expires, drop again, etc
Do that a few times, check the amount of shots/casts and you have a good average.


It's definately not just a beta thing, it happens and always has happened on live as well.
#329SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Low Life
What kind of DPS increase should I be seeing with this sim at 70 compared to Yo!'s? According to the sims my DPS would be going from around 1200 to somewhere close to 2000 with the same gear and about the same buffs, which means that everything's still even gemmed/enchanted with STR. I picked the stats for this sim on the beta server, so they should all be right. Am I doing something horribly wrong here or is the DPS increase just from new talents/mechanics/skills really going to be that huge?
#330SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
250% and 200% don't make any sense. 100% more crit damage with physical means 300% damage. That would also make sense with 4/5 EF giving 280%.

Are you sure about, that there are no partial resists? And I thought glancing hits can happen with white damage only.
Sorry, 300% crits.
#331SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Everything I have tested indicates its currently 300% crits with 5/5 EF.
#332SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
A question was asked on the main thread Enhancement WotLK Talents and spells discussion. that may have effects on the sim. Can you confirm the sim applies the spellpower boost to instant casts only?

Edit : DOH!!! I'll blame the early hour of the morning for not noticing this was crap.

Last edited by Levva : 09/23/08 at 7:10 AM.
#333SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
A question was asked on the main thread Enhancement WotLK Talents and spells discussion. that may have effects on the sim. Can you confirm the sim applies the spellpower boost to instant casts only?

That person was an idiot who couldn't read a tooltip properly, Mental Quickness reduces the mana cost of your Instant cast spells by 6% AND increases your spellpower by 30% of your AP.

Last edited by Rouncer : 09/23/08 at 12:46 AM.
#334SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Bug: Double Flametongue Weapon Enchants aren't giving 4% spell crit, only 2%.
#335SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Bug: Double Flametongue Weapon Enchants aren't giving 4% spell crit, only 2%.
You are talking about the glyph, I assume? So dual FT with the glyph should give 4% spell crit?
#336SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bargle
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Bug: Double Flametongue Weapon Enchants aren't giving 4% spell crit, only 2%.
There's nothing to say whether this is a bug, oversight, or working as intended. The glyph merely reads, "Increases spell critical strike chance by 2% while Flametongue Weapon is active." It says nothing about 2% *per* active flametongue enchant.
#337SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Bargle View Post
There's nothing to say whether this is a bug, oversight, or working as intended. The glyph merely reads, "Increases spell critical strike chance by 2% while Flametongue Weapon is active." It says nothing about 2% *per* active flametongue enchant.
Except the paper doll on BETA clearly shows me having 4% extra crit with double FT enchanted, not 2%.
#338SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jwwpua
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Except the paper doll on BETA clearly shows me having 4% extra crit with double FT enchanted, not 2%.
If it's showing +4% with double FT, what is the bug you're referring to?

Mine shows +2% with 1 FT, and +4% with 2 FT's.
#339SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Except the paper doll on BETA clearly shows me having 4% extra crit with double FT enchanted, not 2%.
Could just be a display bug, FT is bugged out on the char tab anyways and makes your spell damage stack up when you equip weapons, but its just a display bug.
#340SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Could just be a display bug, FT is bugged out on the char tab anyways and makes your spell damage stack up when you equip weapons, but its just a display bug.
True...but when I click off one or both FT weapon enchants, the crit % on the paper doll goes down 2 or 4%. The simulation is bugged to only give you 2% spell crit regardless of if you have two weapons buffed with Flametongue. There would be no reason for it to NOT give us 4% spell crit with 2 enchants after all.
#341SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
. There would be no reason for it to NOT give us 4% spell crit with 2 enchants after all.
Unless they only intended you to get the benefit from one? I don't know, there's obviously a bug here but I don't think you can say for certain which side of the fence the bug is on.
#342SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vaeys
I thought there was a discussion about flame shock & stormstrike, but I can't seem to find it... however after checking for my own curiosity:

- Flame Shock initial hit gets the boost from the SS debuff if it is up (and consumes a charge)
- if SS debuff is up when Flame Shock dot ticks, the dot gets +20% damage, but does not consume a charge

So if you flame shock, then SS, the ticks after will get the boost, and if it wears off during the flame shock (and isn't refreshed) the remaining tics don't get the boost.
#343SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.1.1

1.1.1
-Fixed LB coef to 71.43%.
-Fixed Searing totem attack interval to 2.2s.
-The Skull of Gul'dan trinket added.
-Added totems Totem of Ancestral Guidance, Totem of Splintering, Totem of the Void and Skycall Totem.
-With Flametongue Glyph and dual FT, you now get 4% spell crit.
-Chain Lightning added.
-Stats with zero value are not printed.
-Elemental Fury changed to affect Lava Lash.
-Lava Lash and Lightning Shield changed to consume and gain benefit from Stormstrike debuff.

enhsim - Google Code

Forgot to add that I changed Flame Shock dots to benefit from SS debuff also.
#344SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Forgot to add that I changed Flame Shock dots to benefit from SS debuff also.
They do not consume the debuff. Only the DD does.
#345SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
I think these are wrong. Can someone confirm.
- Lightning Shield changed to consume and gain benefit from Stormstrike debuff.
- Flame Shock dots to benefit from SS debuff also.

Also "Fixed Searing totem attack interval to 2.2s." This is right but NPc do not chain cast and right interval then bumbep up to 2.5-2.6s
#346SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
They do not consume the debuff. Only the DD does.
Yes...or you mean it doesn't get the benefit at all?
#347SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Yes...or you mean it doesn't get the benefit at all?
If they don't consume the debuff the DoT component should not benefit. Same for Flametongue Weapon - it doesn't consume the charge, so it should not receive benefit.
#348SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Also "Fixed Searing totem attack interval to 2.2s." This is right but NPc do not chain cast and right interval then bumbep up to 2.5-2.6s
I'll change this to 2.55s on the next update.
#349SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sorry
Just tested this on the PTR.
Flameshock DoTs benefit from SS debuff while not using up charges.
Lightning Shield charges benefit from SS debuff while not using up charges.
#350SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Sorry View Post
Just tested this on the PTR.
Flameshock DoTs benefit from SS debuff while not using up charges.

Well that's odd. Oh well, can't complain about that I guess.
#351SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Malan View Post

Well that's odd. Oh well, can't complain about that I guess.
Which further emphasizes the 'spelly' nature of our damage come expansion :P
#352SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
In the future could you add some kind of scrolling ability to the gui? I can see only the half of it on a 17" monitor in 1024*768. The parts that are right from the half of buff column aren't visible in any way in this resolution.
#353SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
How about those static shock charges. Blues say that those don't eat charges but do they still get benefit like flame shock dot.
#354SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.1.2

Originally Posted by Aximous View Post
In the future could you add some kind of scrolling ability to the gui? I can see only the half of it on a 17" monitor in 1024*768. The parts that are right from the half of buff column aren't visible in any way in this resolution.
1.1.2
-Fixed Searing totem interval to 2.55s.
-Lightning Shield changed not to consume SS debuff, but still gain the benefit.

enhsim - Google Code

Now when you maximize the window, you'll get scroll bar.
#355SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
Great, thanks.
#356SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Low Life
Originally Posted by Malan View Post

Well that's odd. Oh well, can't complain about that I guess.
Not really odd at all, considering warlocks have had the same mechanics for around two years now with Improved Shadow Bolt.
#357SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
edited out

Last edited by Rouncer : 09/24/08 at 1:32 PM.
#358SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
When you run ep values. How do you do it?
You must edit start_ep_calculation file or else it's run wrong 70lvl exe file.
enhsim_lvl80.exe config.txt ep
I bet you Rounced get too low spell damage ep value becouse of that.

80lvl ep values.
D:\Sim2>enhsim_lvl80.exe 80.txt ep
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      4274.80
ap                        1         0.54      4435.37        160.57
crit rating               2.09      1.12      4386.43        111.63
hit rating                3.10      1.66      4399.17        124.37
expertise rating          1.85      0.99      4354.81        80.01
haste rating              1.39      0.74      4423.17        148.37
armor penetration rating  0.68      0.36      4305.76        30.96
spellpower                1.26      0.68      4477.63        202.83
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.07
intelligence              1.34
elapsed simulation time: 90000.00h
Notes: Expertice don't seem so important anymore. Int seems to be ok. Haste value is low but armor penetration flat out suck.

Damage values and breakdown:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1183.41   27.68%    109.30
windfury            498.98    11.67%    5.90
flametongue         442.84    10.36%    71.55
stormstrike         201.13    4.7%      6.69      22.46     25.44%
lava lash           123.99    2.9%      8.38      9.62      10.89%
searing totem       255.69    5.98%     0.00
earth shock         170.63    3.99%     3.17      11.69     13.24%
flame shock         264.45    6.19%     5.83      6.77      7.67%
lava burst          616.51    14.42%    5.35      20.28     22.97%
lightning bolt      352.62    8.25%     5.05      17.48     19.79%
lightning shield    165.22    3.86%     0.83      0.00      0.00%
DPS                 4275.48
Notes: Spell damage overcomes melee damage very early stages of gear.


Config: Almoust same that I have posted in this thread before. Normally I cap spell hit but If I do it when running ep values but then people just don't understand how high value hit have. I used Wf and SS glyphs.
You can get couple more dps if you get more comlex rotation but those are too hard to do at in-game.

Config:
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   75
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_penetration_rating     85
ep_spellpower                   300

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         20.0
oh_crit                         20.0
mh_hit                          8.0
oh_hit                          8.0
mh_expertise_rating             50
oh_expertise_rating             50
ap                              2500
haste                           0
armor_penetration               0
str                             150
agi                             500
int                             50
spellpower                      750
spell_crit                      15
spell_hit                       11
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        berserkers_call
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    -
glyph_major4                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              fs
rotation_priority2              mw_lvb
rotation_priority3              mw_lb
rotation_priority4              ss
rotation_priority5              es
rotation_priority6              ls
rotation_priority7              ll

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   1/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       drums_of_battle
If you see some fancy about config say so becouse this is next base config file.
#359SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Few things.

1. How do you have 11% spell hit but only 8% melee hit? Especially since Dual Wield Spec gives 6% melee hit. Change it to 10% spell hit and 14% melee hit. (since 10% spell hit is equal to 8% melee hit). If it's because Dual Wield spec doesn't show on the paper doll then just reduce the Spell hit to 10% so that it is equal to the Melee Hit.

2. Your crit percentages are a bit off. Raise the Intellect to 166 and then they are fine, since 500 Agi gives 6% melee crit + 5% for Thundering Strikes = 9% from crit rating. Then Spell crit would be 9% from gear + 5% from Thundering Strikes + 1% from the 166 Intellect.

3. As for the ep values wouldn't it make more sense for them to be worked on a 1% basis? Something like:

ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 46
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 33
ep_haste_rating 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating 15
ep_spellpower 38

That way all the ratings are worth a 1% change in value and the AP and Spellpower are an equal ilevel budget to those ratings values. By using that as the stepping stone between values shouldn't the results be more accurate?
#360SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Few things.

1. How do you have 11% spell hit but only 8% melee hit? Especially since Dual Wield Spec gives 6% melee hit. Change it to 10% spell hit and 14% melee hit. (since 10% spell hit is equal to 8% melee hit). If it's because Dual Wield spec doesn't show on the paper doll then just reduce the Spell hit to 10% so that it is equal to the Melee Hit.

2. Your crit percentages are a bit off. Raise the Intellect to 166 and then they are fine, since 500 Agi gives 6% melee crit + 5% for Thundering Strikes = 9% from crit rating. Then Spell crit would be 9% from gear + 5% from Thundering Strikes + 1% from the 166 Intellect.

3. As for the ep values wouldn't it make more sense for them to be worked on a 1% basis? Something like:

ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 46
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 33
ep_haste_rating 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating 15
ep_spellpower 38

That way all the ratings are worth a 1% change in value and the AP and Spellpower are an equal ilevel budget to those ratings values. By using that as the stepping stone between values shouldn't the results be more accurate?
Very good points.
Spell hit should be 10%.(dw spec don't show at paper doll)
Intellect should be something higher. 166 sound pretty good.
Ep ranges was high when I tested with lower simulated times. Your values look pretty much better.
I edited config and sended it to Tukez.
#361SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Since we now know that double FT enchants gives us 4% spell crit with the glyph, would WF glyph give +80% to the WF attack power bonus when double enchanted?
#362SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Few things.

1. How do you have 11% spell hit but only 8% melee hit?
It takes less hit rating to get 1% spell hit than it does for melee hit. My paperdoll values show that I have more spell hit than I do melee hit. (not counting talents)
#363SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
It takes less hit rating to get 1% spell hit than it does for melee hit. My paperdoll values show that I have more spell hit than I do melee hit. (not counting talents)
Except 11% spell hit is not equal to 8% melee hit - 10% spell hit is equal to 8% melee hit (it's written that way in my post - basically he was using 1% spell hit that was unaccounted for in the melee hit).


Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Since we now know that double FT enchants gives us 4% spell crit with the glyph, would WF glyph give +80% to the WF attack power bonus when double enchanted?

Anyone got a Windfury Glyph on Lich King so I can test that out?
#364SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Urgok
Any chance that you would be so kind as to add Mp5 into the simulator. I'd like to come up with a build and a rotation for the 3.0 launch and I've been running into fairly unrealistic mana usage, 10 to 12k every two minutes, and I'd just like to compare Mp5 to Int in an objective way.
#365SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Orlgin
FT is overperforming on the sim. The simulator is showing FT is hitting on every swing that an enhance uses but that's not true if you are using FT/FT. Go on a live shaman, use FT/FT and count the number of hits versus the number of FT procs. They aren't the same. Stormstrike will often record only one FT even though you hit twice. I was testing FT theory back when the Lightning capacitor didn't have a cooldown and noted at the time that FT/FT didn't proc as often as it should.

The more interesting thing is that with Stormstrike having 4 debuffs with an 8 sec cooldown, there is almost always a debuff on the target. This essentially means FT is scaling better than Blizzard intended.

I have a question for my own research. Static Shock scaling is what I'm looking at. What damage effects don't trigger this? For example, can a static charge discharge cause a second?
#366SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Naibot
Originally Posted by Orlgin View Post
FT is overperforming on the sim. The simulator is showing FT is hitting on every swing that an enhance uses but that's not true if you are using FT/FT. Go on a live shaman, use FT/FT and count the number of hits versus the number of FT procs. They aren't the same. Stormstrike will often record only one FT even though you hit twice. I was testing FT theory back when the Lightning capacitor didn't have a cooldown and noted at the time that FT/FT didn't proc as often as it should.
Yes, i roughly came to this same conclusion yesterday when i hopped into DM north on PTR to test a dual FT setup. Some basic weaponspeed interaction with dual FT showed me this (no flurry, no UR, naked only swinging a combination of vendor weapons).

2.5/2.5 (136.7dps) - # melee hits == # flametongue procs (100%)

1.4/1.4 (157.7dps) - # melee hits == # flametongue procs (100%)

2.5/1.4 (137.4dps) - # melee hits =/= # flametongue procs (90.8%)

1.4/2.5 (138.0dps) - # melee hits =/= # flametongue procs (91.4%)

No matter how much haste i introduced (flurry/WFT/DST/BL), equal speed weapons nicely procced every possible flametongue. It's only when swings overlap either due to different speeds, when you are parrying attacks or whenever you hit /startattack before you are in range, that flametongue procs seem to get lost.

So what's the cause of these lost flametongue procs? Is it latency? Since there is some delay between the weapon hit and the proc some may be wiped from the queue? Or like Windfury Weapon maybe there is some small hidden cooldown to prevent chain proccing, seems likely.

Like already said, FT interaction with SS only gives one proc, if dual enchanted the mainhand proc seems to put the offhand proc on cooldown.
Funnily enough two different ranks of FT do yield both procs on a SS (sounds familiar to the windfury issue we had in TBC ) Whatever fix they made to prevent chainproccing they forgot to include cross ranking. Even looking a bit further and checking out Frostbrand shows even more how big of a mess the coding of weapon imbues is. There seems to be 3 checks for a FB proc on a SS (debuff/mh/oh) resulting in triple procs quite often when dual enchanted.

All in all we can honestly say that the weapon imbue system is a mess and Blizzard never really bothered to recode it to properly behave with dualwielding. Band-aid fixes to prevent abuse of messy mechanics is all what we have seen.
I'm fairly sure this is why Blizzard is hinting us to use two different imbues in Wotlk, WF/FT will be the combination for lvl80 trust me. They won't remove the choice to dw same imbues no, but they won't bother to recode them either.

Edit: A quick test on blasted land mobs, using two different ranks of flametongue indeed shows that there are no lost procs compared to the ~20% lost using same ranks due to overlapping swings. So i think we can honestly say that there seems to be a small cooldown on the proc.

Last edited by Naibot : 09/25/08 at 9:24 AM.
#367SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
Chaotic and relentless metagems aren't seem to be having the same effect. Without changing stats I got 30dps difference just by changing the metagems.
Relentless:
white 1091.21
windfury 641.97
stormstrike 215.37
lava lash 105.57
searing totem 131.32
earth shock 130.39
flame shock 154.92
lightning bolt 472.57
lightning shield 88.71

DPS 3032.04
MPS 127.80
MP2min 15335.89

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 24.87s
simulation speed: 1447701x
Chaoitc:
white 1065.22
windfury 629.10
stormstrike 210.92
lava lash 105.57
searing totem 133.30
earth shock 132.41
flame shock 156.02
lightning bolt 479.75
lightning shield 88.71

DPS 3001.00
MPS 127.82
MP2min 15338.21

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 25.19s
simulation speed: 1429081x
#368SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Ghostcrawler posted today stating that it is unintended for multiple weapon enchants to give us double the glyph bonus. For example, 2 FT weapon enchants were giving us 4% spell crit, and 2 WF enchants were giving us 96% bonus attack power. It's only supposed to get the benefit once, not twice. Please update the simulator accordingly if needed!
#369SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Pitbuller, I have a new set of stats for you to use as a baseline for the Sim.

They are based off a level 80 Tauren Shaman wearing

-5 piece Naxx 10 man Enhance armor
-3 piece SWP-T6 armor
-new PvP melee cloak
-2x Naxx 10 man melee rings
-Madness of the Betrayer and Shard of Contempt
-Supremus Neck
-2x ilevel 200 PvP weapons
-All gear enchanted with WotLK enchants (although used TBC helm enchant since couldn't find the new helm enchant)
-All gems slots filled with 32 AP blue gems (to keep things simple and to give room for EP calculations - I did include gem slot bonuses that were useful though)

There were 10 gem slots so if people want to change stats around they can pull 32 AP off and convert it into 16 Crit Rating or 16 Expertise or 16 Hit Rating or 16 Agility or 19 Spellpower

Values for Sim
Strength = 125
Agility = 455
Intellect = 403
Expertise Rating = 184 (5.61%)
Critical Rating = 445 (9.69%)
Haste Rating = 75 (2.29%)
Hit Rating = 282 (melee hit = 8.6%/spell hit = 10.75%)
AP = 2636

melee crit = 18.07%
spell crit = 14.31%



(if anyone is curious here are the base stats for a Tauren Shaman at level 80)

Strength = 125
Agility = 69
Intellect = 123
Melee Crit = 3.75%
Spell Crit = 2.94%
HP = 8009
Mana = 5961


base stats (agi and int) were only used for AP determinations and not for melee or spell crit percentages.

Last edited by Rouncer : 09/25/08 at 6:32 PM.
#370SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Rounced thanks! Those are pretty much what I expected and worked with. So I don't need to do all sim runs again for every weapon speed with every imbue. I work with those now on.
Do I understand correct that base mana is 5961 - 123*15 = 4116. Or do I miss something?

Edit: Damn typos.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/25/08 at 6:50 PM.
#371SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Do I understand correct that base mana is 5961 - 123*13 = 4116. Or do I miss something?
It's 15 mana per Intellect so Base mana would be 5961 - 123*15 = 4116 (heh you used the right value in your calculator but wrote it wrong in your post )
#372SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
With real gear numbers dps went up. I fear nerf bat soon just please don't hit hard.
4557dps with this config with fast mainhand with flame tongue over ~4700-
I added Glyph of Strength of Earth Totem to crit value it's not typo.(This time). What weapons enchant should be used? Arena totems have to added to sim becouse [Totem of Splintering] suck big time it's not even close to [Stonebreaker's Totem]. Even when dual wf and glyph plus slowest weapons. How bad it can be? Config is allmoust ready. More comments.


simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         19.07
oh_crit                         19.07
mh_hit                          8.6
oh_hit                          8.6
mh_expertise_rating             184
oh_expertise_rating             184
ap                              2636
haste                           2.29
armor_penetration               0
str                             125
agi                             455
int                             403
spellpower                      791
spell_crit                      14.31
spell_hit                       10.75
base_mana                       4396

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        madness_of_the_betrayer
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    -
glyph_major4                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              fs
rotation_priority2              mw_lvb
rotation_priority3              mw_lb
rotation_priority4              ss
rotation_priority5              es
rotation_priority6              ll
rotation_priority7              ls

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       drums_of_battle
Thanks kasik047. Anything else you can find?

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/27/08 at 11:23 AM.
#373SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• kasik047
Pitbuller, in your config you have call of flame at 1/3, I believe you might mean 2/3 points which will result in a slight dps increase (although extremely small)
#374SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.1.3

1.1.3
-Double FT with glyph doesn't give 4% spell crit anymore.
-Fixed Stonebreaker's Totem to proc only from shocks.
-Removed the fourth major glyph slot.

enhsim - Google Code


I also did pretty big internal changes to the code. The code started to fall apart from some parts, so I redid them. If someone is interested, I changed the proc choosing system from single inheritance and function overriding to clever use of multiple inheritance. I also changed the method how I calculate some of the stats to a cleaner one. Although, now I have to divide the stats in their components in the enhsimconfig. Now it is a bit easier to maintain the code.

I also added that level 80 config file.
#375SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Roywyn
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
It's 15 mana per Intellect so Base mana would be 5961 - 123*15 = 4116 (heh you used the right value in your calculator but wrote it wrong in your post )
The first 20 points of intellect (and stamina) give you only 1 point of Mana (HP).
So, base mana is 5961-103*15-20 = 4396.

If you hover over intellect, it also tells you how much mana you get. Difference to your actualy mana is Base Mana.
#376SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3PaulchenP
First, sorry for my wonderful school english . I hope, you can although understand my whishes/recommendations..

- In my opinion, it would be better if you could choose at the „buffs“, which class is in the raid and which buff-option is skilled. When I have to calculate manually how much haste etc. I got from all buffs, the feasibility to get a wrong sim is much higher, as you can choose it via checkbox and the system calculates the right stats.

- A very nice feature would be a gui with equipmodeling and armory-import like rawr.

- A possibility to sim/calc the best gems/enchants/glyphs for my inputted equip.

- A possibility to sim/calc the best rotation (priority) for my inputted equip.

- An exportstring for addons like pawn/equivalence points/etc.

- Why is the standard melee hit at boss only 9%? The stylecap (WF/SS/..) is at 9%, but all whitehits need 28% hit so that they can`t miss (like it is for every other dual wild melee..)

That are a few points, which I figured out when I`ve tried the simulator my first time . But let me say, you`ve made a good job. Keep it up!

Greetz,

Crafity
#377SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Buff/Debuff work like this list. Use default if you don't understand how these works. You don't have to calculate anything.
*  Armor Debuff (Major): Acid Spit (exotic Hunter pet), Expose Armor, Sunder Armor
    * Armor Debuff (Minor): Faerie Fire, Sting (Hunter pet), Curse of Recklessness
    * Physical Vulnerability Debuff: Blood Frenzy, (2nd Talent Spec TBA)
    * Melee Haste Buff: Improved Icy Talons, Windfury Totem
    * Melee Critical Strike Chance Buff: Leader of the Pack, Rampage
    * Attack Power Buff (Flat Add): Battle Shout, Blessing of Might
    * Attack Power Buff (Multiplier): Abomination's Might, Trueshot Aura, Unleashed Rage
    * Spell Haste Buff: Wrath of Air Totem
    * Spell Critical Strike Chance Buff: Moonkin Aura, Elemental Oath
    * Spell Critical Strike Chance Debuff: Improved Scorch, Winter's Chill
    * Increased Spell Damage Taken Debuff: Ebon Plaguebringer, Earth and Moon, Curse of the Elements
    * Increased Spell Power Buff: Focus Magic, Improved Divine Spirit, Flametongue Totem, Totem of Wrath
    * Increased Spell Hit Chance Taken Debuff: Improved Faerie Fire, Misery
    * Percentage Haste Increase (All Types): Improved Moonkin Aura, Swift Retribution
    * Percentage Damage Increase: Ferocious Inspiration, Sanctified Retribution
    * Critical Strike Chance Taken Debuff (All types): Heart of the Crusader, Totem of Wrath
    * Stat Multiplier Buff: Blessing of Kings
    * Stat Add Buff: Mark of the Wild
    * Agility and Strength Buff: Strength of Earth Totem, Horn of Winter
    * Intellect Buff: Arcane Intellect, Fel Intelligence
Calculate ep values if you want to know best gems.
#378SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3PaulchenP
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Buff/Debuff work like this list. Use default if you don't understand how these works. You don't have to calculate anything.
Of cause, it works like the list. But that isn`t an argument against my point. It is much easier to click some buffs/debuffs, than to calculate how much effect I get through this and this and this talent..

Calculate ep values if you want to know best gems.
Right, but it would be much better (in my opinion), if the sim calculate all gem-possibilities (meta), than I have to calculate in manually.
#379SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by PaulchenP View Post
First, sorry for my wonderful school english . I hope, you can although understand my whishes/recommendations..

...

Greetz,

Crafity
Some of these will be in the new GUI developed by Levva. Btw Levva, how is the development going?
#380SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Some of these will be in the new GUI developed by Levva. Btw Levva, how is the development going?
It has started but the attractions of sipping spanish wine by the pool in the heat of the spanish sun got the better of me on holiday so its not nearly as far on as I'd hoped.

I'm using the latest version of Eclipse and building something new for me an RCP (Rich Client Platform) app. So there is lots of "architectural" stuff to deal with including integration with SVN access and all that jazz. So the actual basics are in place but I'm getting hampered by the structural stuff.

I suspect what I need to do is take some time out to get all the background stuff sorted so I can actually get on with some coding. My main issue in setting this up is that I develop on 3 different machines. My home PC, my Laptop, and occasionally when I'm otherwise at a loose end - my work PC. I'm the IT Manager so I can get away with it

Getting the structural stuff right so I can port the code between development machines is something that needs to be right before I can get the actual GUI working. That said I've done a fair bit of reading on armory xml parsing etc. Thats because reading poolside with a glass of wine is easier than coding!!
#381SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Tukez check out the other thread to see the discussion so far. What is the reasoning behind the current EP step values in the default config for the sim? Are they meant to be that high and how can they be accurate at that high of a level.

Previous Sim author used EP step values of 40-80 while you are stepping 300 for AP and Spellpower and 150 for hit which doesn't even make any sense to me from an itemization value standpoint since 300 Spellpower is an equivalent EP step to 500 Attackpower not to 300 AP.

I think it's skewing the EP values Pitbuller is pulling out of the Sim, especially for Spellpower, and is making the results incredibly unreliable for things like hit rating since the single EP step is already putting the value way over the hit cap.

Wouldn't it be better to use a smaller step rating and to scale that step based on the itenmization values for those stats?

I set my numbers based on 2x gem values for the stats, would that work or would it be incorrect in some way?
#382SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
It would be *amazingly* nice if the Sim had an idea of whether you were at hit or expertise cap as well, and accounted for it in the EP step size (not stepping over the caps) and in the results (letting the user know that these ratings are capped and no longer useful).
#383SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Tukez check out the other thread to see the discussion so far. What is the reasoning behind the current EP step values in the default config for the sim? Are they meant to be that high and how can they be accurate at that high of a level.

Previous Sim author used EP step values of 40-80 while you are stepping 300 for AP and Spellpower and 150 for hit which doesn't even make any sense to me from an itemization value standpoint since 300 Spellpower is an equivalent EP step to 500 Attackpower not to 300 AP.

I think it's skewing the EP values Pitbuller is pulling out of the Sim, especially for Spellpower, and is making the results incredibly unreliable for things like hit rating since the single EP step is already putting the value way over the hit cap.

Wouldn't it be better to use a smaller step rating and to scale that step based on the itenmization values for those stats?

I set my numbers based on 2x gem values for the stats, would that work or would it be incorrect in some way?
I would use EP ranges, which one item upgrade gives in stat. For example, I have a chest with 100ap and average upgrade for that piece would give me 50ap more, then I would use 50 for EP range. If you know how EP values/ranges work and are calculated, it makes some kind of sense.

The high EP ranges in the default config are legacy of bad config, I guess. People reported high variance with EP values(with wow 2.4 version sim) on different simulation runs, so I upped the EP ranges to get reasonable results. If the variance has gone down since, as it seems so, you can safely lower the EP ranges as you see fit. In theory, the more you raise the simulation runtime, the more accurate results you get and the more you can lower the EP ranges.

I'll lower the default EP ranges for next version.
#384SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
It would be *amazingly* nice if the Sim had an idea of whether you were at hit or expertise cap as well, and accounted for it in the EP step size (not stepping over the caps) and in the results (letting the user know that these ratings are capped and no longer useful).
Actually the GUI warns about that...it works for level 70 only though. I know you can't use the GUI, so can you explain what kind of system you specificly would like?
#385SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I would use EP ranges, which one item upgrade gives in stat. For example, I have a chest with 100ap and average upgrade for that piece would give me 50ap more, then I would use 50 for EP range. If you know how EP values/ranges work and are calculated, it makes some kind of sense.

The high EP ranges in the default config are legacy of bad config, I guess. People reported high variance with EP values(with wow 2.4 version sim) on different simulation runs, so I upped the EP ranges to get reasonable results. If the variance has gone down since, as it seems so, you can safely lower the EP ranges as you see fit. In theory, the more you raise the simulation runtime, the more accurate results you get and the more you can lower the EP ranges.

I'll lower the default EP ranges for next version.
So then using the settings that I was recommending would work better then?

Since I was basing them off what adding 2 gems worth of stats would do to the pieces.

Guess that also means we should be running different EP values for level 70 gear and for level 80 since the stat value increase between pieces is significantly more at level 80.

If these look ok to you feel free to use them.

Level 70

ep_ap 40
ep_crit_rating 20
ep_hit_rating 20
ep_expertise 20
ep_haste_rating 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 20
ep_spellpower 24

Level 80

ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 32
ep_hit_rating 32
ep_expertise 32
ep_haste_rating 32
ep_armor_penetration_rating 32
ep_spellpower 38


With those being based on 2x gem values for the gems available at 70 and then the gems that will be available at 80.
#386SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3PaulchenP
Hmm, I`ve sim today my dps with solo buffs and a priority list, that is given with level 70 (MW_LB).

The sim shows me 1458 dps.. I`ve made seven fights with the dummies in OG and got all the time a dps between 1432 and 1453.. So, I think, the sim is running well.

All values were near the sim values.
#387SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by PaulchenP View Post
Hmm, I`ve sim today my dps with solo buffs and a priority list, that is given with level 70 (MW_LB).

The sim shows me 1458 dps.. I`ve made seven fights with the dummies in OG and got all the time a dps between 1432 and 1453.. So, I think, the sim is running well.

All values were near the sim values.
Great to hear . Better even if you happened to take a combatlog or some end stat results and the config you used to simulate. It would be nice to see does that combatlog look something like the simulator is spitting out.
#388SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
It would be *amazingly* nice if the Sim had an idea of whether you were at hit or expertise cap as well, and accounted for it in the EP step size (not stepping over the caps) and in the results (letting the user know that these ratings are capped and no longer useful).
One nice little trick is that you can use negative ep value ranges too. If you are some sort of cap of something then just turn that ep range to negative. Result is: How good stat is before cap and that is maybe usefull when changing gear and drop below that cap.

Rounced: AP and spell power scale linearly. Ep ranges aren't reason why you get inconsistent numbers(not me, check other thread). You can easily check ep values by hand:
Run sim. Write dps down.
Set ap x higher(also remember set spellpower 0.3x higher too). Write dps down.
dps/ap = (2nd run - 1st run) / x
Reset config to original.
Set some stat value higher by value of z. Write dps down.
Value of that stat = [(3rd run - 1st run) / z] / (dps/ap)
This is what sim do when calculating ep values.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/30/08 at 7:11 AM.
#389SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
PaulchenP
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         4
min_lag                         350
max_lag                         400

ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   150
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_penetration_rating     600
ep_spellpower                   300

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          97.5
oh_dps                          97.5
mh_crit                         24.54
oh_crit                         24.54
mh_hit                          9.61
oh_hit                          9.61
mh_expertise_rating             59
oh_expertise_rating             59
ap                              1785
haste                           1.9
armor_penetration               168
str                             224
agi                             346
int                             273
spellpower                      593
spell_crit                      18.59
spell_hit                       4.52
base_mana                       2958

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        bloodlust_brooch
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    -
glyph_major2                    -
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              mw_lb
rotation_priority2              fs
rotation_priority3              ss
rotation_priority4              ll

miss                            28.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           2/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              0/2600
armor_debuff_minor              0/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20/20
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 83/83
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  0/40

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -



Screenshot from recount

The screen shows 1451,9 DPS after 306.4 sec, but the fightduration was 300,x sec. So, if you calc 444857/300, you got a dps realy near the sim one.
Only the values aren`t as near together, as today afternoon, but I`m not sure, if I had a piority list like in the list above..



Edit: But there are wrong values, if I choose FT/FT or WF/FT.. WF/FT is simed with ~1400 DPS, but it got ~1564 DPS.. Nice was, at the beginning (with mana) I hold 1800+ DPS. In my opinion, WF/FT is atm the best imbue-mix.

recount screenshot from WF/FT


For you as translation:
Nahkampf = Melee
Blitzschlag = LB
Angriff des Windzorns = WF
Angriff der Flammenzunge = FT
Sturmschlag = Stormstrike
Flammenschock = Flameshock
Lavapeitsche = LL
Flammenschock (DoT) = Flameshock (DoT)
-----------------
Gestreift = hmm, normally glancing blow, but it must be Crit..
Treffer = hit
Miss = miss..
Dodge = dodge..

Last edited by PaulchenP : 09/29/08 at 8:25 PM.
#390SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
EP ranges should follow the item budget, not numbers pulled out of a hat. Using gem values isn't that stupid, but gems don't follow the item budget as strictly as some of us had hoped.

Budget factors:

Any rating: 1
AP : 0.5
A stat : 1 - (Only Ag? Obviously not Str since it will result in only x1.1 AP, but Int?)
Spell power: 0.86 (6/7)

So with a base value of, say, 50, you get 100 AP, 50 ag, 50 of any rating, 58 spell power.

Source: Item values - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
#391SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.1.7

1.1.7
-Trinkets added: Meteorite Whetstone, Embrace of the Spider, Dying Curse, Illustration of the Dragon Soul, Sundial of the Exiled, Forge Ember, Incisor Fragment, Mark of the War Prisoner, Sphere of the Red Dragon's Blood and Tome of Arcane Phenomena.
-Grim Troll's name fixed to Grim Toll. Also changed the ppm to static proc chance of 15% and cd of 45s.
-Dual Wield Specialization changed to increase hit by 1/2/3%. Changed to affect spell hit also.
-Flurry attack speed increase lowered to 5/10/15/20/25%.
-Stormstrike damage debuff now affects nature spells only.
-Maelstrom Weapon proc chance reduced to 3/6/9/12/15% and procs form all melee. Duration increased to 30s.
-Lowered default EP ranges.

enhsim - Google Code


As you see, I assumed that DW spec affects spells too.

GUI warnings for hit and expertise caps works for level 80 too. It searches the enhsim file text box to see are you using level 70 or 80 exe.
#392SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vaeys
According to wowhead, dual-wield spec still doesn't affect spell hit, just melee hit.
#393SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by PaulchenP View Post
MW was updated today on the ptr.

MW.
Its mentioned in the post directly above yours.
#394SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Enhsim 1.1.8

1.1.8
-Elemental Fury does not affect Lava Lash crits anymore.
-DW spec bonus changed back to affect only melee.

enhsim - Google Code
#395SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
I'm designing to add support for casting with partial MW stacks. I need to know does the cast time change, if haste changes during casting?
#396SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I'm designing to add support for casting with partial MW stacks. I need to know does the cast time change, if haste changes during casting?
No it will not. The spell casting time will stay constant once you cast the spells, even if your haste changes.
#397SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
So I came up with this system for generic rotations:

System consists of fixed rotation slots and those slots are priority lists. The system would use the first slot(priority list) to use the first skill, then move to the next slot and use that list until a skill is available to cast. Move to next slot and so on. After last slot it would move back to the first one.

You could also define do you skip the slot and move to next one, if you can't cast any of the skills in that slot.

Example rotation:

SS
ES
MW_CL,MW_LB(skip)
FS

This means start with SS, then ES. Check if MW is ready and CL not on cd: cast CL. Otherwise check if MW is ready: cast LB. If either cannot be done, move to FS. After FS, start again with SS.

So to clarify, this rotation consists of 4 priority lists. Only the 3rd one have more than one item in it.

What do you think, is this good?. Can you do any kind of rotation with this sytem? Can you make up a better one?

Btw, spell casting with duration is almost done. In next version you are able to specify the minimum amount of MW charges to cast. Instead of defining, for example MW_LB, you have to define MW_LB_5 or MW_LB_3.
#398SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Unless I'm misreading this, this priority system would skip on SS after the first cycle for much longer then it's actual cooldown.

Forgetting MW it leads to this:

0 SS
1.5 ES
7.5 FS
9 SS
13.5 ES
19.5 FS
21 SS

Which gives a 12 second gap while there was a perfect slot for SS available at 17 seconds. A better priority system would start at the top again after a succesful step was made, and maybe even check the remaining cooldown on a skill so that you wait say 0.5 seconds instead of firing up a flame shock and using a SS instead.

If it already does this then forget what I wrote.
#399SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Stopokingme View Post
Unless I'm misreading this, this priority system would skip on SS after the first cycle for much longer then it's actual cooldown.

Forgetting MW it leads to this:

0 SS
1.5 ES
7.5 FS
9 SS
13.5 ES
19.5 FS
21 SS

Which gives a 12 second gap while there was a perfect slot for SS available at 17 seconds. A better priority system would start at the top again after a succesful step was made, and maybe even check the remaining cooldown on a skill so that you wait say 0.5 seconds instead of firing up a flame shock and using a SS instead.

If it already does this then forget what I wrote.
Well you kind of missed the point. The point was to explain the system to make the rotations, not to show an efficient rotation. You are able to make the rotation you explained with that generic rotation system.
#400SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
So I came up with this system for generic rotations:

System consists of fixed rotation slots and those slots are priority lists. The system would use the first slot(priority list) to use the first skill, then move to the next slot and use that list until a skill is available to cast. Move to next slot and so on. After last slot it would move back to the first one.

You could also define do you skip the slot and move to next one, if you can't cast any of the skills in that slot.

Example rotation:

SS
ES
MW_CL,MW_LB(skip)
FS

This means start with SS, then ES. Check if MW is ready and CL not on cd: cast CL. Otherwise check if MW is ready: cast LB. If either cannot be done, move to FS. After FS, start again with SS.

So to clarify, this rotation consists of 4 priority lists. Only the 3rd one have more than one item in it.

What do you think, is this good?. Can you do any kind of rotation with this sytem? Can you make up a better one?

Btw, spell casting with duration is almost done. In next version you are able to specify the minimum amount of MW charges to cast. Instead of defining, for example MW_LB, you have to define MW_LB_5 or MW_LB_3.
So its a case of every pass of the priority :

use the first skill if available, if not move onto slot 2 use if available, if not move onto slot 3 etc?

ie: every pass it starts at the top, or every pass it starts from where it left off thus potentially missing an earlier higher priority?

BTW given the request for possibilities for MW at less than 5 stacks to see the effects. Can I suggest you rename the above to be MW5_CL & MW5_LB. This then allows MW4_CL etc.
#401SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
So its a case of every pass of the priority :

use the first skill if available, if not move onto slot 2 use if available, if not move onto slot 3 etc?

ie: every pass it starts at the top, or every pass it starts from where it left off thus potentially missing an earlier higher priority?

BTW given the request for possibilities for MW at less than 5 stacks to see the effects. Can I suggest you rename the above to be MW5_CL & MW5_LB. This then allows MW4_CL etc.
I don't quite get what you mean so I'll give some more examples. It is fixed and priority rotation combined. With this new system, the old priority list from default config.txt would be written like this:
MW_LB,SS,FS,ES,LL,LS
Just one line.

Plain fixed rotation with SS, FS and ES would be written like this:
SS
FS
ES
SS
ES
This is not an efficient rotation, just an example. This means that those skills will be cast in order from top to bottom and starting again from top.

Then you can mix fixed and priority rotations together:
SS
MW_LB,ES
FS
MW_CL,MW_LB (skip)
LL
Again, just example. Here is what would probably happen:

0.0s cast SS.
1.5s MW isn't most probably ready yet, so lets check next skill(ES). ES is ready -> cast ES.
7.5s cast FS
9.0s if MW is ready and CL cd is not on, cast CL. Else if MW is ready, cast LB. Else skip this priority list and move to the next one. Let's say MW wasn't ready yet.
9.0s cast LL
10.5s cast SS

And so on.

Hopefully this cleared it up.

About the naming thing, I think your suggestion is good, MW5_LB or whatever makes more sense.
#402SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
You might include logic that allows for a delay though. ie, SS is much more important that LL is. So LL maybe off CD, but if SS is coming off CD in say... 1 second or less, I'd rather SS and use LL after. Same thing for Shocks, they're going to do more damage over time than LL will so they're more important to use if they're coming off CD but would conflict with LL.
#403SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Tukez, please update the sim with Maelstrom Weapon set to 12.4PPM.


Edited - reduced the PPM to 12.4, another 5 minute run was posted so it should be averaged in too

Last edited by Rouncer : 10/04/08 at 1:17 AM.
#404SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
EnhSim 1.2.1

1.2.1
-Maelstrom Weapon is now 12.4 PPM. Removed Lava Burst as an option.
-Flurry changed back to 10/15/20/25/30%.
-Dual Wield Specialization changed back to 2/4/6%.
-You can now specify the minimum amount of charges to use MW. You can also cast spells without MW charges at all, check the config.txt for details.

enhsim - Google Code


Sorry it took so long, I basically had this version ready since yesterday, but it took a while to track down one nasty bug. I hope there aren't any other bugs.

As you see, you can cast spells now without MW, so you can play elemental shaman and spam LB if you feel like it .


EDIT: I forgot to write the instructions for spell casting to config.txt. I'll write it here instead.

Basically the Maelstrom Weapons commands are:
MWx_LB
MWx_CL
Where x is number 1-5. It means what is the minimum number of MW charges to start casting.

You can cast full duration spells with these commands: LB, CL, LVB. They use MW charges if possible(LB is same as MW0_LB).

MW casting with charges pauses the swing timer and full duration casting resets it.


EDIT 2: Realized that different MW ranks do all the same thing. I guess ppm should increase as you gain ranks up to 12.4? I'll change this to the next version.

Last edited by tukez : 10/04/08 at 9:29 AM.
#405SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
So, running the Sim on all default settings, AP seems to be the best stat (except for hit and expertise obviously)... interesting.
#406SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3PaulchenP
Removed Lava Burst as an option.
-Maelstrom Weapon now has a 100% chance to reduce the cast time of your next Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Burst, Lesser Healing Wave, Chain Heal or Healing Wave spell by 20%. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 30 sec. (Up from 3/6/9/12/15% chance)

source
#407SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3namuras
Originally Posted by fauxpas View Post
So, running the Sim on all default settings, AP seems to be the best stat (except for hit and expertise obviously)... interesting.
I got the biggest EP values for AP too, but if I gem for hit I have more DPS.
All EP Ranges are on default settings.
#408SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
Originally Posted by PaulchenP View Post
-Maelstrom Weapon now has a 100% chance to reduce the cast time of your next Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Burst, Lesser Healing Wave, Chain Heal or Healing Wave spell by 20%. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 30 sec. (Up from 3/6/9/12/15% chance)

source

It's a typo, try it out ingame.
#409SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by fauxpas View Post
So, running the Sim on all default settings, AP seems to be the best stat (except for hit and expertise obviously)... interesting.
Which config do you mean? I didn't get AP for strongest in any of the configs. I think I tried them all, config.txt, config_lvl80.txt and BestDpsBuild.txt.
#410SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
You might include logic that allows for a delay though. ie, SS is much more important that LL is. So LL maybe off CD, but if SS is coming off CD in say... 1 second or less, I'd rather SS and use LL after. Same thing for Shocks, they're going to do more damage over time than LL will so they're more important to use if they're coming off CD but would conflict with LL.
I came up with this system: You can define for how long you wait for the cd to go off with every skill. Like this:
FS:3.0,SS:2.0,LL
So it first checks is FS on cd and waits for the cd doing nothing for maximum of 3.0 seconds. If the cd is longer than 3.0s, it checks SS and waits max 2.0s and so on. Would this be a good system? It would work with most of the cases.
#411SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
EP                        value  

baseline                  3995.30
ap                        1 
crit rating               1.61  
hit rating                3.20   
expertise rating          2.34 
haste rating              1.35   
armor penetration rating  
spellpower                1.36
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.73
intelligence              1.35
Using config_lvl80..

EP                        value

baseline
ap                        1
crit rating               1.66
hit rating                1.31
expertise rating          0
haste rating              1.33
armor penetration rating  0.17
spellpower                1.29
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.73
intelligence              1.36
slightly modified with nearly capped meleehit and capped expertise. here, ap is the best stat.
#412SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
...
slightly modified with nearly capped meleehit and capped expertise. here, ap is the best stat.
Ok got it. So you meant best stat when taking stat cost into account.
#413SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
Obviously, wouldn't make sense otherwise, would it? :P
#414SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Krish
As I have yet to get the sim working on my mac, I'd love to see some EP values at level 70 in a 25-man environment in Sunwell gear. Hit rating values set to greater than that needed to cap specials and less than the spell hit cap would probably be most useful to those of us who are gemmed/enchanted for 2.x.

On a separate note, has anyone gotten the sim to compile on a mac? I'd love to know a basic step-by-step of how you did it.
#415SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
EDIT 2: Realized that different MW ranks do all the same thing. I guess ppm should increase as you gain ranks up to 12.4? I'll change this to the next version.
PPM is fixed we reckon at 12.4ppm for 5 pts in MW. 1 stack reduces cast time by 20%, 2 stacks 40% etc same as before. What changed was the method of gaining a stack.

Did you mean what would be the ppm for 1 pt in MW? Don't think anyone's tested that.

Last edited by Levva : 10/04/08 at 8:46 PM.
#416SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
PPM is fixed we reckon at 12.4ppm. 1 stack reduces cast time by 20%, 2 stacks 40% etc same as before. What changed was the method of gaining a stack.
2 different things, he is talking about the number of points spent in the talent which definitely does effect your PPM rate. Not sure to the degree but probably something like

1 point = ~2.5
2 points = ~5
3 points = ~7.5
4 points = ~10
5 points = ~12.5

(12.4 seems to be the rate but without more testing precision will be a bit lacking)
#417SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Got something new for you to add into the Sim regarding Maelstrom Weapon.

Seems if a weapons speed drops below 1 second it's PPM increases to 16.2
#418SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Blind
Long time lurker - I've just stuck my level 70 stats as per the PTR into the smulator and run the AEP values.

Most of the stats make sense, eg expertise rated highly and agi >str. I am however getting a value of 1.84 for armour penetration which seems very wrong to me. What would cause such a high value?
#419SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3delbin
Originally Posted by Blind View Post
Long time lurker - I've just stuck my level 70 stats as per the PTR into the smulator and run the AEP values.

Most of the stats make sense, eg expertise rated highly and agi >str. I am however getting a value of 1.84 for armour penetration which seems very wrong to me. What would cause such a high value?
Are you mixing up the PTR's armor penetration rating with live's straight armor penetration?
#420SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Armor Pen was changed to a rating system so it produces different values now.
#421SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Wundorn
Easy way to use the sim on a Mac

I haven't done this in the last week or so, but last time I tried, the sim ran just fine under Darwine, and it was crazy fast too. I wasn't using the GUI so I don't know if that would work too.

So if you don't want to compile it yourself (though that looks pretty easy), just grab a copy of Darwine. you don't even need to install the various extra that Darwine says it wants (updated X drivers, etc.) - it'll work out of the box well enough for the sim.
#422SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Chain lightning usage on every cooldown yields +100dps but cost 500mp5. Lava burst full cast is dps loss if used every cd but can be dps and mana neutral if only used when elemental devastion drop so no reason to use it ever when being melee range. What is interesting that our ranged dps is over 2000 now.

About mana: If you are mana limited then spec out of concussion and get convection. No reason drop static shield.
Concussion =~ 50dps.
Convection is 100mp5

Static shock =~ 150dps
Water shield = 100mp5 + globes.

Edit: Corrected Convection mp5 value to 100mp5 not 66mp5.

With this priority dps is 2190 and you can do it at 20ayd without shocks you can do about 2000dps at 30yad:
rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              fs
rotation_priority2              lvb
rotation_priority3              cl
rotation_priority4              es
rotation_priority5              lb
rotation_priority6              ls

Last edited by Pitbuller : 10/06/08 at 11:41 AM.
#423SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Chain lightning usage on every cooldown yields +100dps but cost 500mp5. Lava burst full cast is dps loss if used every cd but can be dps and mana neutral if only used when elemental devastion drop so no reason to use it ever when being melee range. What is interesting that our ranged dps is over 2000 now.

About mana: If you are mana limited then spec out of concussion and get convection. No reason drop static shield.
Concussion =~ 50dps.
Convection is 66mp5

Static shock =~ 150dps
Water shield = 100mp5 + globes.
By ranged I take it you mean spell? Since I'm only showing 1000 dps for LB + Shocks and another 250 for Searing Totem.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to Maelstrom Weapon tuning.

Tukez, hopefully we'll get some more consistant results today for MW but what I think may be happening is that the PPM is really 10 but that the proc rate is just determined by the base weapon speed and doesn't change when haste is applied. Which would mean that MW scales, to a degree, with haste.

EDIT - Jury does appear to be back in from deliberation and MW scales with Haste. So set the proc rate based on the base weapon speed and a PPM of 9.8 and that rate won't change no matter how much haste is added into the system.

Last edited by Rouncer : 10/06/08 at 11:51 PM.
#424SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Double post, sorry
#425SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.2.3

1.2.3
-You can set ep range to 0, if you want to skip that particular test. Ep value calculations for MH and OH dps added.
-EnhSim warns if some stat goes past the cap in EP value calculation.
-Metagems added: Chaotic Skyflare Diamond, Ember Skyflare Diamond, Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. CSD is for spells and RED is for melee.
-Maelstrom Weapon is now 2/4/6/8/10 ppm.
-Added Maelstrom Weapon observed PPM to the stats.

enhsim - Google Code


Haste of any kind do not affect the proc chance. In other words, all haste increases the PPM.
#426SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
polocabbit
Is is still common practice to calculate multiple ep values and then take the average like we did with Yo's sim?

edit: Was playing around with 1.2.3 and I get some really strange values for MH and OH DPS when I calculate EP values.

I've posted screen shots and the config file I'm using.

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    20
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     24
ep_spellpower                   20
ep_dps                          

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          103.1
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         30.56
oh_crit                         30.56
mh_hit                          17.57
oh_hit                          17.57
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              2108
haste                           4.69
armor_penetration               17.56
str                             180
agi                             379
int                             233
spellpower                      632
spell_crit                      19.43
spell_hit                       13.97
base_mana                       4463

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        shard_of_contempt
trinket2                        berserkers_call

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              MW_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              0/2600
armor_debuff_minor              0/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  0/40

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

Last edited by polocabbit : 10/07/08 at 6:00 AM.
#427SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by polocabbit View Post
Is is still common practice to calculate multiple ep values and then take the average like we did with Yo's sim?

edit: Was playing around with 1.2.3 and I get some really strange values for MH and OH DPS when I calculate EP values.
No you don't have to run it multiple times, just set simulation time high enough. At first, you should test a couple of times, how high you have to set the time to get stable results. After the initial tests, it should be enough to just run EP test once.

Reason you get wierd results is, that you don't have ep_dps defined:
ep_armor_penetration_rating     24
ep_spellpower                   20
ep_dps
#428SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Originally Posted by tukez
CSD is for spells and RED is for melee
RED and CSD both are just crit damage, affecting both spell and melee crit last time I checked on beta, at least according to the tooltip.
#429SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kyuki
But they add more than just the crit modifier
#430SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Originally Posted by Kyuki View Post
But they add more than just the crit modifier
That might very well be, but reading the changes summary it looked like the crit modifiers only applied to spell damage for the CSD and melee damage for the RED, which would need fixing.
#431SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3polocabbit
LvB had its damaged buff by 10% (source). Thought you might want to know for your next revision of your sim.
#432SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.2.9

1.2.9
-REDs and CSDs affect both melee and spell crits.
-You can define the maximum number of LS charges to cast LS. Config option is cast_ls_only_if_charges_left.
-Glyph of Flame Shock added.
-Added talents: Lightning Mastery, Elemental Oath, Lightning Overload, Lava Flows, Storm Earth and Fire.
-Fixed bug with Flame Shock dotting one time too many.
-Lava Burst casting logic with Flame Shock dots now take casting time into account.
-You can change the base ep stat with ep_base_stat. Options are ap or sp.

enhsim - Google Code


As you see, mostly Elemental stuff.
#433SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by polocabbit View Post
LvB had its damaged buff by 10% (source). Thought you might want to know for your next revision of your sim.
Is it just 10% to base damage or did they change the coef too?
#434SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Is it just 10% to base damage or did they change the coef too?
More then likely just the base but won't know for sure till we hear either the cries of joy or the wails of disgust from the Ele Shaman threads.
#435SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
It was just the base damage, Bink already railed that they didn't fix its scaling.
#436SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
It was just the base damage, Bink already railed that they didn't fix its scaling.
I thought I heard the gnashing of teeth.

Edit so the post isn't completely useless. Tukez are you including Feral Spirit damage in your sim?
#437SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Krish
I've spent what must be several hours now trying to get the simulator to compile on my Mac. I've installed X11 and Wine and attempted it that way. I've attempted to download zterm and compile it that way. I am reaching dead end after dead end and slamming my head into the wall. If someone who has gotten this to work under 10.5.x (I'm on 10.5.5) could provide some kind of step-by-step instructions for myself and other mac users, it would make my day. We're going to need to have something to put into the wiki that we can refer people to when they ask "should I be using X or Y weapon?", even if they are a Mac user.
#438SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I thought I heard the gnashing of teeth.

Edit so the post isn't completely useless. Tukez are you including Feral Spirit damage in your sim?
Yeah, eventually. It is a bit bigger work than it seems on the first look. It will introduce a second creature to the sim and I have to sort out what buffs are shared and create separate armor reduction for the wolfs and shaman itself etc. etc.
#439SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.3.0

1.3.0
-Lava Burst base damage buffed by 10%.
-Added mh_auto_attack and oh_auto_attack config options.

enhsim - Google Code
#440SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Wundorn
Originally Posted by Krish View Post
I've spent what must be several hours now trying to get the simulator to compile on my Mac. I've installed X11 and Wine and attempted it that way. I've attempted to download zterm and compile it that way. I am reaching dead end after dead end and slamming my head into the wall. If someone who has gotten this to work under 10.5.x (I'm on 10.5.5) could provide some kind of step-by-step instructions for myself and other mac users, it would make my day. We're going to need to have something to put into the wiki that we can refer people to when they ask "should I be using X or Y weapon?", even if they are a Mac user.
Ok...

You could build Darwine from scratch, but I didn't bother this time. Go get it from Random Tidbits of Information. For example, http://thisismyinter.net/Files/Darwi...ne%201.1.5.dmg at the moment, though it's updated often enough that you shouldn't use that direct link. (If you do want to build it from scratch he's got some useful notes on that page on what you need to do it.)

The page author also suggests that you get Xquartz, but you don't need it for the sim. (At least, not the engine. I didn't try the GUI.)

When you decompress and run Darwine, it creates a hidden directory in your root dir called ".wine". Inside of that is a directory that holds the contents of the "C:" drive called "drive_c" (unless I picked the name - I don't recall- in which case it'll be whatever you name it). Put the sim somewhere inside the C drive (I was sloppy and stuck it in the root), then use the WineHelper.app to start the sim with the necessary arguments. The first time around only run it for a hundred hours. That way it should run in less than a second even on the weakest intel Mac ever made. So you'll know right away if things are working or not.

You don't need to fire up X by hand, just make sure you installed it when you installed your OS (or go get the install DVD and install X now. It won't harm your current OS installation).

That should do it. Post if you have more trouble. (Oh yeah... if you're not on an Intel Mac, this won't work! You'll have to compile it.)
#441SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3dedmonwakeen
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
No you don't have to run it multiple times, just set simulation time high enough. At first, you should test a couple of times, how high you have to set the time to get stable results. After the initial tests, it should be enough to just run EP test once.
Tukez,

I've begun generating statistic data in my sim and it has been very revealing. One interesting stat that I've been looking at is:

Convergence = ( | DPS_Final - DPS_90% | ) / DPS_Final

DPS_Final => The average DPS across all iterations
DPS_90% => The average DPS after 90% of total iterations

This gives me an idea how well the sim is converging. I'm probably going to add an option that allows the sim to run to a specified convergence level.....
#442SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Wundorn View Post
(Oh yeah... if you're not on an Intel Mac, this won't work! You'll have to compile it.)
Hence the entire problem of why people are asking how to compile this on OS X. If I had an Intel mac I would simply bootcamp into Windows and run the sim there for convenience. The compile instructions as provided by tukez don't seem to work. (Grab libs, build them, run g++ on the sim)
#443SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Acks
Thank you Tukez for this wonderful tool. Quick question here in regards to expertise. I get the message that "MH and OH expertise are over the cap" unless I set the values from rating (which the GUI specifically asks for) to actual expertise (e.g. even putting in 50 expertise rating yields this error message, it only goes away by setting expertise to 27 or lower).

As such I can't generate an EP value for expertise. Im assuming either im doing something wrong or the sim expects us to cap expertise and so an EP would be useless anyway. Or maybe its related to the step ep values im using (stole from Rouncie above with AP at 40 and others set from there).

Edit: One more question. Do i deduct the stats provided by trinkets from my stats before inputting them? E.g. DST, should i deduct 40 AP from my paperdoll stats? Or does the trinket selection only factor in equip/use mechanics? I saw someone mention deducting the AP from Berzerker's Call in a previous post but couldn't find anything that would confirm this.

Last edited by Acks : 10/09/08 at 2:20 PM.
#444SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.3.2

1.3.2
-Fixed Lightning Overload mechanics.
-Fixed Lava Flows mechanics.
-Totem of Hex added.
-Fixed Naxx nuker 4 set bonus mechanics.
-Fixed Illustration of the Dragon Soul to give sp instead of ap.
-Added default elemental config based around item lvl 213 items.
-Added option to cast Lava Lash only if Windfury is on cd. This option is noted only if dual wf is used. Config options is cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd.

enhsim - Google Code
#445SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Acks View Post
Thank you Tukez for this wonderful tool. Quick question here in regards to expertise. I get the message that "MH and OH expertise are over the cap" unless I set the values from rating (which the GUI specifically asks for) to actual expertise (e.g. even putting in 50 expertise rating yields this error message, it only goes away by setting expertise to 27 or lower).

As such I can't generate an EP value for expertise. Im assuming either im doing something wrong or the sim expects us to cap expertise and so an EP would be useless anyway. Or maybe its related to the step ep values im using (stole from Rouncie above with AP at 40 and others set from there).

Edit: One more question. Do i deduct the stats provided by trinkets from my stats before inputting them? E.g. DST, should i deduct 40 AP from my paperdoll stats? Or does the trinket selection only factor in equip/use mechanics? I saw someone mention deducting the AP from Berzerker's Call in a previous post but couldn't find anything that would confirm this.
If putting 50 to expertise rating box, only way it could say that, is because you changed the dodge from 6.5 to some lower value. Also note that you input expertise(not rating) in the EP ranges. The default EP range in some configs is 20, which is too high for expertise. Just noticed that.

No, you don't deduct stats. Always input what you see, or would see, in your paper doll.
#446SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Acks
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
If putting 50 to expertise rating box, only way it could say that, is because you changed the dodge from 6.5 to some lower value. Also note that you input expertise(not rating) in the EP ranges. The default EP range in some configs is 20, which is too high for expertise. Just noticed that.
Boss dodge is set to 6.5 in my config file.

I just now tried changing my expertise from 112 (actual) to 102, and then changed the EP range from 20 to 5, and i still get the error that its over the cap. With 102 expertise, i have to change the EP range for Expertise to "1" in order to get the sim to not report being over the cap.

The same is true for spell hit. It is reporting anything over 11% as being over the spell hit. I thought it was 17% for spell hit, based on the information provided by wowwiki (202 spell hit rating). EDIT: Just remembered dual wield specialization adding 6% "hit". I suppose this could be the issue as 11+6 =17. I didnt' even consider that DW specialization would affect spell hit. D'oh.

Here are my EP ranges that I stole from Rouncie's post earlier in the thread (EDIT: with exp changed to 5 as suggested):

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    5
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5

Last edited by Acks : 10/09/08 at 3:08 PM.
#447SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
• Krish
Originally Posted by Wundorn View Post
Ok...

You could build Darwine from scratch, but I didn't bother this time. Go get it from Random Tidbits of Information. For example, http://thisismyinter.net/Files/Darwi...ne%201.1.5.dmg at the moment, though it's updated often enough that you shouldn't use that direct link. (If you do want to build it from scratch he's got some useful notes on that page on what you need to do it.)

The page author also suggests that you get Xquartz, but you don't need it for the sim. (At least, not the engine. I didn't try the GUI.)

When you decompress and run Darwine, it creates a hidden directory in your root dir called ".wine". Inside of that is a directory that holds the contents of the "C:" drive called "drive_c" (unless I picked the name - I don't recall- in which case it'll be whatever you name it). Put the sim somewhere inside the C drive (I was sloppy and stuck it in the root), then use the WineHelper.app to start the sim with the necessary arguments. The first time around only run it for a hundred hours. That way it should run in less than a second even on the weakest intel Mac ever made. So you'll know right away if things are working or not.

You don't need to fire up X by hand, just make sure you installed it when you installed your OS (or go get the install DVD and install X now. It won't harm your current OS installation).

That should do it. Post if you have more trouble. (Oh yeah... if you're not on an Intel Mac, this won't work! You'll have to compile it.)
Thanks for the advice! I didn't know about the hidden .wine directory (it's in my home folder, by the way, not at the root of my HD). I am on an intel mac (I've been hoping to avoid installing windows to do this). I am, however, still getting stuck. When I use WineHelper to open the Sim, I select the Enhsim.exe file and it doesn't open. I tried pasting the text from config.txt in, that didn't work. I'm seemingly either not doing the right steps to select the arguments, or something else is going wrong.

Edit: I'm taking a closer look at the config.txt file now. I was using the default, but perhaps the 0/2600 kinds of values that are input for armor_debuff_major and the like are the problem? Also I see a few talent values that seem to be impossible (not having any talents in tier 1 of enhancement). I'll try changing those things and see if it makes the difference.

Edit 2: Tried the same things with the BestDpsBuild.txt file instead, since it seems to be filled in. Same problems.

Last edited by Krish : 10/09/08 at 3:26 PM.
#448SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Acks View Post
Boss dodge is set to 6.5 in my config file.

I just now tried changing my expertise from 112 (actual) to 102, and then changed the EP range from 20 to 5, and i still get the error that its over the cap. With 102 expertise, i have to change the EP range for Expertise to "1" in order to get the sim to not report being over the cap.

The same is true for spell hit. It is reporting anything over 11% as being over the spell hit. I thought it was 17% for spell hit, based on the information provided by wowwiki (202 spell hit rating). EDIT: Just remembered dual wield specialization adding 6% "hit". I suppose this could be the issue as 11+6 =17. I didnt' even consider that DW specialization would affect spell hit. D'oh.
I don't know do you mean the message EnhSimGui gives or the one EnhSim gives. Anyway, if it is EnhSimGui, check the message. There are two types. One tells that the stat goes over the cap and the other one tells that the stat is over the cap. First one is told if stat + ep range is over the cap.

DW does not affect spell hit. There are some other things though, which do, like the spell hit buff or spice hot talbuk. Noticed a bug in the GUI btw, it calculates spice hot talbuks spell hit based on the melee hit rating conversion -> you might get incorrect error message with spell hit.
#449SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Krish View Post
When I use WineHelper to open the Sim, I select the Enhsim.exe file and it doesn't open. I tried pasting the text from config.txt in, that didn't work. I'm seemingly either not doing the right steps to select the arguments, or something else is going wrong.
You give the config's filename as argument to EnhSim. If you want to calculate EP values, give the config's filename and somethings else. ("enhsim.exe config.txt ep" for example)

Sorry, can't really give much assistance in this matter.
#450SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Krish
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
You give the config's filename as argument to EnhSim. If you want to calculate EP values, give the config's filename and somethings else. ("enhsim.exe config.txt ep" for example)

Sorry, can't really give much assistance in this matter.
I tried that in WineHelper as well. No luck so far. Perhaps using WineHelper is the problem and I should be using a command line interface to pass the config.txt file to enhsim.exe? If so, the commands I've tried have been problematic to this point as they're not working. I'm about ready to give up and go buy a copy of Parallels and Windows and just run it there.
#271SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by mek View Post
Follow-up question: what kind of damage does a WF proc from Lava Lash do?
It does off hand windfury damage, no difference.
#272SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
I was wrong, FT scales from 1.3 to 4.0 weapon speeds.
#273SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hothgor
Fresh from the Beta. I did find out that Windfury is still bugged for ranks 6-8, and SS still doesn't show up int he combat log as far as I could tell. HOWEVER, melee attacks are no longer consuming SS charges. This is good news of course. In a few other tests, WF-5 was being outdamageg by the offhand flametongue weapon damage

Paper Doll Stats Unbuffed:
2298 AP
1238 Spell Power
8.68 MHit
2.68 SHit
25.23 MCrit
21.67 SHit
1.83 Haste
129 Str
439 Agi
386 Int

Talent Spec:

Test 1

This was a 12 minute fight. 0/5 UR, 3/3 SS and 3/3 IES, however due to mana issues I did not use Static Shock at all. Because WF is still broken, and the fact that FT is doing more damage than WF is presently, I used dual FT enchants. For this testing purpose, I used the following macro:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Earth Shock, Lava Burst, Lava Lash;

The results were interesting!

Length of Test: 12 minutes
Total Damage: 1450291
DPS: 2014.3

Ability         Count        Damage       %          High        Low
Lava Burst       70          411915     31.4         6829        4334 
Melee            808         360235     27.5      
FT Weapon        614         257189     19.6        
Lava Lash        104         95940       7.3         2733        541
Flame Shock      70          84713       6.5
Earth Shock      35          60574       4.6
FS Dot           113         41262       3.1
Pretty high damage for Lava Burst and Lava Lash!

Test 2

Same Macro, but 5/5 UR

Talent Spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Length of Test: 12 minutes
Total Damage: 1478905
DPS 2054

Ability        Count        Damage        %        High        Low
Lava burst       72         417056      30.9       6930        4444
Melee            829        377089      27.9
FT Weapon        609        245501      18.2
Lava Lash        107        109056       8.1       2853        559
Flame Shock      72         85184        6.3
Earth Shock      36         71981        5.3
FS Dot           120        43335        3.2
The spell damage portion of our overall damage with dual FT is around ~65%(~55% with MH WF)!!! Flametongue Weapon does NOT seem to be proccing off every hit in either test!

Test 3

My final test for the night! Same macro, but instead of equiping [Savage Gladiator's Cleaver] I used [Savage Gladiator's Spellblade] . Note that it is a MH only weapon!

Talent Spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Length of Test: 12 minutes
Total Damage: 1547292
DPS: 2149

Ability        Count        Damage        %        High        Low
Lava Burst      72          439407      31.6       6832        5009
Melee          1122         340137      24.5
FT Weapon       707         290991      20.9
Lava Lash       107         106116       7.6       2495        555
Flame Shock     72          97276        7.0
Earth Shock     36          72916        5.2
FS Dot          112         43925        3.2
Even with a caster MAIN HAND weapon with FT, it was quite a bit of an upgrade. Hope you found this info useful!

Last edited by Hothgor : 09/22/08 at 3:21 PM.
#274SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Regarding Lava Lash

I took off all of my equipment and bought myself a nice shiny [Jambiya] . The listed damage range was 29-34 damage, according to my character sheet. I only tested this with flametongue enchant and only did a few attacks, but without any gear and procs, there was little need for a large sample size.


Min / Max
Weapon Damage Range: 29 34
Lava Lash Hits 37 40
Lava Lash Crits 113 116

Conclusions:
Damage is calculated using the 50% offhand penalty
Given the damage range, its reasonable to assume that Lava Lash crits get a damage bonus from both Elemental Fury AND Melee Crit Bonus (IE 300%)

We need to find out if this is a bug or not!
#275SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Now with Elemental Weapons changed, does the 30% affect only the bonus spelldamage FT gives or the whole spelldamage which FT damage is calculated from?
#276SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Hothgor has a point, at the end of the day we need to be able to prove that its possible to match what happens in game in the sim.

Now of course personal ability will come into it, and as long as SOMEONE can do the same dps as the sim, we can have confidence that the sim is accurate. Tukez has put in a fantastic effort to get things right despite Blizzard bugging different things out on each and every build. To my knowledge we haven't yet had a build that actually does what they claim it should.

So with some big assumptions :

The live build does what it says it should, ie: there are no "bugs"/undocumented features AND

Tukez manages to get the sim to the point where it matches what the live says its doing.

IF we can reach that situation then it should be perfectly possible to setup the sim to match exactly your situation in live. Then as Hothgor said it shouldn't make a blind bit of difference if you are soloing on a training dummy or fully raid buffed, as long as you enter the data into the sim exactly as you are setup in game. It should be possible for the best players to accurately match what the sim says.

If the best players exceed the sim dps or come up short on the sim dps then there MUST be something either in game or in the sim that's not behaving correctly. It should never be the case that the sim projects numbers unobtainable by the best players using exactly those stats and buffs in game.

However we are not at that stage yet as there are too many rapid changes and BUGS to accurately match dps. I hope we will get there soon.
#277SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Now with Elemental Weapons changed, does the 30% affect only the bonus spelldamage FT gives or the whole spelldamage which FT damage is calculated from?
Its no longer 15% bonus proc damage, but now 30% spell damage bonus. The max rank spell went from adding 211 spell damage to 274 spell damage.
#278SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
#279SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
Not only that, but on the BETA realms, a MH 1.6 speed 75 dps 355 spell power weapon is out dpsing a MH 2.6 speed 130 dps weapon. How ironic would it be if we went after elemental shaman gear over hunter gear?
#280SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
[Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic]
[Valorous Earthshatter Hauberk]
[Valorous Earthshatter Chestguard]

Actual this time Blizzard done our set right. It's good. It's even better than hunter t7. Elemental piece is lot worser but set bonus is nice.
Our set have lot of intellect but item level formula give more stat when spreading those that int is actual gain. If count only dps stats and give int value of 1. All other stats/ratings get value of 2 and ap get 1.
Ignoring sockets+bonus. All have the same.

Hunter set get 486points.
Our set get 486points.
Rogue set get 450points.
[Valorous Bonescythe Breastplate]

Actual int is even more valuable but ep numbers at 80lvl is still unsolved.
#281SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Embar
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
I went down to the servants in Blasted Lands yesterday with my elemental and enhancement sets. Surprisingly, DPSing as enhancement in a full elemental set with dual FT came out pretty close (+- 100dps in my current gear) to DPSing in proper enhancement gear. However, since SS is not showing in logs right now and SS was still bugged when I tested, this is not definitive - I'll try and get some proper logs later, but if I can replicate this consistently it'd be rather odd.
#282SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Embar View Post
I went down to the servants in Blasted Lands yesterday with my elemental and enhancement sets. Surprisingly, DPSing as enhancement in a full elemental set with dual FT came out pretty close (+- 100dps in my current gear) to DPSing in proper enhancement gear. However, since SS is not showing in logs right now and SS was still bugged when I tested, this is not definitive - I'll try and get some proper logs later, but if I can replicate this consistently it'd be rather odd.
Searing Totem wasn't included in my posted data. I figured it would offset the lack of SS dps showing up. If I included both, I'm fairly certain that my test would still show me doing 60%+ spell damage. When I get home tonight, I'm swapping out my beta premade enhancement set for the elemental set, just to see what happens. I believe it has the potential to do more damage than I am currently seeing, simply because of the extra 600+ spell power!!
#283SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Tukez am I missing someplace where I should input what level shaman I'm running the sim for? (Which would determine what spell ranks are being used I assume?) I can't find an option for it.
#284SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Tukez am I missing someplace where I should input what level shaman I'm running the sim for? (Which would determine what spell ranks are being used I assume?) I can't find an option for it.
Different levels are not done yet. Hold on.
#285SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Different levels are not done yet. Hold on.
Gotcha. I'm trying to get EP values for my beta char at 76 and they're producing some sort of wonky values (3.51 EP for crit).
#286SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3h4rr0d
Hope it's not OT here or if it has been mentioned already, but I have just logged on PTR to check out what did they do with the linked PVP gear (str got just rolled over to AP same as on our tier sets) but I have noticed more important thing. Surefooted enchant is changed to +10 hit +10 crit which is rather imba for us.

Also, seeing how caster items look rather good for us, has anyone tried grabbing 2 elemental tier 6 pieces for the set bonus yet, or is it completely insane thought? I was thinking about chest/shoulders+swp enhancement stuff and head/shoulders+gloves elemental depending on other stuff you have in the slots.
#287SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Gotcha. I'm trying to get EP values for my beta char at 76 and they're producing some sort of wonky values (3.51 EP for crit).
I'll do level 80 as separate exe first, because it's just easy. I'll consider adding an option for level later, if I have some spare time.
#288SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
The lvl 80 version would be fine, all I'm really trying to do is get a list of items from around 76-80 that are actually upgrades on the beta.
#289SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Two elemental t6 pieces is good idea but two set bonus is still only spell crit and not combined crit. Shoulders are very good but other parts aren't even close at best slot items. Resto shaman maybe can make elemental 2*set useful.

Elemental set bonus is about 70ep(45*1.15ep + 35*0.5ep) + 15mp5 for us.

(2) Set: Whenever you have an air totem, an earth totem, a fire totem, and a water totem active at the same time, you gain 15 mana per 5 sec, 35 spell critical strike rating, and 45 spell power.
#290SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by h4rr0d View Post
Hope it's not OT here or if it has been mentioned already, but I have just logged on PTR to check out what did they do with the linked PVP gear (str got just rolled over to AP same as on our tier sets) but I have noticed more important thing. Surefooted enchant is changed to +10 hit +10 crit which is rather imba for us.

Also, seeing how caster items look rather good for us, has anyone tried grabbing 2 elemental tier 6 pieces for the set bonus yet, or is it completely insane thought? I was thinking about chest/shoulders+swp enhancement stuff and head/shoulders+gloves elemental depending on other stuff you have in the slots.
Discussion of gear and upgrades should be made in the main Enh Shammy WotLK thread, this thread is for the EnhSim simulator, and stuff that directly affects the sim.
#291SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
Appropriate noise needs to be made on the beta forums and through in-game reporting on this topic. We really don't want to end up gearing spell power over attack power in the end.
#292SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hothgor
After some interesting testing last night, I decided to test my DPS using ONLY elemental gear on the premade BETA realm. It should be noted initially that I was only able to sustain this for about 5 minutes before going OOM, due primarily to my super low attack power. In a typical raid situation, this would or should not be a problem at all. I used the same macro from the 3 previous tests:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Earth Shock, Lava Burst, Lava Lash;

My Talent Spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

My Paper Doll Stats
970 AP
2228 SP
7.59 MHit
1.98 SHit
18.93 MCrit
20.78 SCrit
0 Haste
121 Str
71 Agil
572 Int

The results:

Damage: 675414
DPS: 2251.38

Ability          Damage        Count        %        MAX        MIN
Lava Burst       200233         29        32.7       7358       5672
FT Weapon        172129         380       28.1
Melee            102043         448       16.7
Flame Shock      45623          30         7.4       2590       1068
Lava Lash        37342          44         6.1       1760       381
Earth Shock      32261          14         5.3       4047       1988
FS Dot           22897          48         3.7
As you can see, this bested my previous best of ~2100 dps with enhancement gear and a MH spell power weapon. Spell Power seems to be THAT good DPS wise, and in my opinion should spark some serious discussion on how exactly we are going to gear ourselves.

Last edited by Hothgor : 09/22/08 at 4:25 PM.
#293SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Skiace
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
As you can see, this bested my previous best of ~2100 dps with enhancement gear and a MH spell power weapon. Spell Power seems to be THAT good DPS wise, and in my opinion should spark some serious discussion on how exactly we are going to gear ourselves.
This needs to spark discussion with the devs about how they expect us to gear. There's little discussion to be had amongst ourselves, as all signs are pointing toward gearing spellpower right now. To reiterate my last post, we need to be making a lot of noise about this.

Edit: I see Malan has started a thread on the topic: WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Koraa - major issue with Enhancement gear

Last edited by Skiace : 09/21/08 at 4:07 AM.
#294SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Urgok
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
I was bored last friday and ran a sim of a well geared t6 Elemental Shaman that decided to spec Enhancement. Sorry for the formating.
mh_speed			          1.6
oh_speed			          1.3
mh_dps				39.0
oh_dps				87.3
mh_crit				28.22
oh_crit				28.22
mh_hit				10.434	
oh_hit				10.434
mh_expertise_rating		44	
oh_expertise_rating		44
ap				      722	
haste				11
armor_penetration		 0	
str				      106
agi				        99
int				      428
spellpower			      878
spell_crit			        28.860
spell_hit			        13.543	
base_mana		    2678
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               221.87     14.36%    121.65
windfury              0.00      0%          0.00
flametongue     548.53     35.51%    128.69
stormstrike       22.23       1.44%     5.27      17.70     19.58%
lava lash           22.68      1.47%     14.71     21.40     23.67%
searing totem   186.93     12.1%     0.00
earth shock         0.00      0%         0.00      0.00      0.00%
flame shock     145.75      9.44%     4.59      13.70     15.16%
frost shock          0.00      0%         0.00      0.00      0.00%
lava burst           0.00      0%         0.00      0.00      0.00%
lightning bolt     396.81    25.69%   9.30      37.59     41.59%
lightning shield    0.00      0%         0.00      0.00      0.00%
misc                    0.00      0%        0.00
DPS 1544.81
MPS 90.39
MP2min 10847.07
Full t6 using a Brutal Gladiator Spellpower dagger and that 1.3 speed dagger from Heroic MGT. No enchantments and I do not think I gemmed anything, but I'd have to double check. I also left the Raid Buff and Debuff section completely blank. If this is accurate this build could easily out dps my current Shaman by a good 3 to 400 points, and I'm assuming the sim's dps value is inflated.

Last edited by Urgok : 09/21/08 at 4:51 AM.
#295SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Low Life
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
Appropriate noise needs to be made on the beta forums and through in-game reporting on this topic. We really don't want to end up gearing spell power over attack power in the end.
I don't see a reason why we wouldn't want to, if it gave us proper DPS and scaled well enough through different content. However, it'd need to be made clear which one we're supposed to pick. At the moment it seems like SP and AP gear are quite close to equal, if they want us to gear SP then AP gear should be close to useless, and vice versa.

Personally I'd love to run around in SP gear, it'd truly make us unique and I wouldn't need to gather a different set if I just wanted to try a different spec for a while.

If I find time I might try to come up with stats for low-quality geared enhancement and elemental shaman sets, so I can check how much the difference is there (to compare scaling)
#296SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
EnhSim1.0.3

1.0.3
-Elemental Weapons changed to increase FT's spellpower by 10/20/30%, not the final damage.
-Static Shock now increases LS charges by 2/4/6.
-Madness of the Betrayer changed to increase armor penetration rating by 42.
-Fixed resistance formula. This change should now result in slightly less spell damage.
-Lvl 80 as separate exe, define LVL80 when compiling.
-In EnhSimGui, you need to specify the executable instead of directory.

enhsim - Google Code

I hope I remembered all the level 80 stuff. Sorry about the slow pace of development, I've been busy with school.

Btw, those info box warnings in GUI are not correct with lvl 80.

Last edited by tukez : 09/21/08 at 6:06 AM.
#297SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
If you check lootrank and 80lvl loots you will see that elemental gear prbolem is 70lvl stuff not 80lvl. Our t7 is muich better than elemental brothers. It's even better than rogue set. Our ap scaling is ridiculous good. 0.65dps per ap. It's almoust double as good that it is now. I'm not against spell damage weapons becouse those are good. But spell damage gear isn't so hot at 80lvl. You all must remember that ratings value drop almoust half when sim updates to 80lvl. This give ap gear even bigger lead. At 70lvl only spellpower best slot items are [Pendant of Sunfire] and [Loop of Forged Power]. Both these are crafterd so no lootdrama conflicted. I really scare that Blizz fix would only cause nerf to some spell damage component. Our class is fine now.
On the other hand now our best slot items include 6 mail and only 2 leather. All these are pure melee gear.


Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Its rather discouraging to see [Gauntlets of the Ancient Shadowmoon] worth more according to the sim than [Grips of Damnation]
It's not fair to compare BT and Sunwell items.


First 80lvl ep values. I edited bestDpsBuild.txt config to match reality at started gear. I reduced all ratings and percent from gear. Dps/ap dropped but dps still went little up. Hit > agi > crit > exp. Cap spell hit and stack agi after that.
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3646.36
ap                        1         0.52      3802.02        155.66
crit rating               1.91      0.99      3745.30        98.94
hit rating                2.78      1.44      3790.52        144.16
expertise rating          1.66      0.86      3716.00        69.63
haste rating              1.20      0.63      3771.39        125.03
armor penetration rating  0.52      0.27      3669.51        23.14
spellpower                1.19      0.62      3832.03        185.67
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.00
intelligence              1.30
With these values spellpower gear can't match agi/ap gear.

Ep values at wowhead.(gem hit to spell cap if you use these values.)

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/21/08 at 7:15 AM.
#298SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
If you check lootrank and 80lvl loots you will see that elemental gear prbolem is 70lvl stuff not 80lvl. Our t7 is muich better than elemental brothers. It's even better than rogue set. Our ap scaling is ridiculous good. 0.65dps per ap. It's almoust double as good that it is now. I'm not against spell damage weapons becouse those are good. But spell damage gear isn't so hot at 80lvl. You all must remember that ratings value drop almoust half when sim updates to 80lvl. This give ap gear even bigger lead. At 70lvl only spellpower best slot items are [Pendant of Sunfire] and [Loop of Forged Power]. Both these are crafterd so no lootdrama conflicted. I really scare that Blizz fix would only cause nerf to some spell damage component. Our class is fine now.
On the other hand now our best slot items include 6 mail and only 2 leather. All these are pure melee gear.



It's not fair to compare BT and Sunwell items.
On my test, I was comparing level 80 blue Melee gear with level 80 blue spell gear. They clearly do similar damage to each other. Level 80 ep values should be different than level 70 ones, right?
#299SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.0.6

1.0.6
-Fixed uptime statistics minor bug.
-Removed set bonus Skyshatter Harness. Added set bonuses Skyshatter Harness(2), Skyshatter Harness(4), Skyshatter Regalia(2), Skyshatter Regalia(4), Naxx Melee(2), Naxx Melee(4), Naxx Nuker(2) and Naxx Nuker(4).
-Added trinkets Fury of the Five Flights, Grim Troll, Loatheb's Shadow and Mirror of Truth.
-Fixed GUI bug: GUI wasn't saving/loading the enhsim.exe path correctly.

enhsim - Google Code

4 piece set bonuses include 2 piece set bonus.
Trinkets are modeled like their lvl 70 counterparts.
#300SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
On my test, I was comparing level 80 blue Melee gear with level 80 blue spell gear. They clearly do similar damage to each other. Level 80 ep values should be different than level 70 ones, right?
You tested without raid buffs. You tested in buggy PTR(this is huge). I tested with optimal condition with sim. You tested couple dozen minute. I runned sim 25000h. Level 70 ep and level 80 ep values is clearly different becouse rating drops. Both values are in this thread. You can easily say if simulator do something wrong. But I can't say how scientific your test was. At 70lvl there wasn't any optimized gear to these mechanic but at 80lvl there is. Those 80lvl ep values what I posted show clearly that melee gear is strictly better at 80lvl. I know those values aren't perfect but those are best we have now. In game testing is good for testing how mechanic work but in game test isn't very good to test dps. In best scenario someone test how mechanic work and then someone add that to sim. Then sim work just like real game but it can produce lot more numbers. If we wanna know how we do good dps we want lot of those numbers. You scored 2200dps in your test but we want to know how to do 4000dps. It's good that there is in-game testers but actual numbers isn't interesting. Maybe if you re-produce least 15minute test with all raid buffs when ptr is stable enough and all our skills work there. Then those numbers can actual tell about gearing for raiding.
#501SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
It's apparently not calculating wrongly, it's just a bit counterintuitive, the hitcap message.

If you look at your EP step for hit, it's 150. So the simulator is adding 150 hit rating (as far as I've understood this), noting dps without the extra 150, with the 150, and then telling you the AP equivalent value of that added dps. So it's telling you that you're grossly overshooting the hitcap in the simulator, but you still have to have clear knowledge on what to set the EP value to, so the simulator can calculate a proper marginal EP value for hit, as you get closer to the cap. That is, the closer you get to the cap, the smaller the EP steps have to be to get a sensible value.
#502SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Lava burst elemenental devastion loop was boring. Why not just make passive +9% crit talent. Now elemental devastion scale with gear. More crit more uptime. Scaling is good. Elemental uptime is still over 50% easily. Elemental devastion is still over talent budget with that uptime.
#503SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hidden
You'll probably want to get the hit rating EPs at various hit levels with additional, longer runs and small hit rating steps so you don't get over another cap, either spell while not being capped at all or melee while already being spell hit capped. Anyway the data I've gotten is enough for me to gem for the spell hit cap before even thinking about gemming anything else.

Edit@Pitbuller: Many talents are over the "1% per talent point" budget, I'd even say most are.
#504SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Karok(EU)
Followed your advice bellante and went for a really tight ep-step setting:

1 for each rating, 2 for AP. Ran it for 60k hours (27mins of siming) which gave me the following results:

EP (note the negative spellpower):

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2699.43
ap                        1         0.43      2700.29        0.86
crit rating               1.72      0.74      2700.17        0.74
hit rating                1.59      0.69      2700.11        0.69
expertise rating          0
haste rating              1.88      0.81      2700.24        0.81
armor penetration rating  1.80      0.78      2700.20        0.78
spellpower                -0.50     -0.22     2699.21        -0.22
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.93
intelligence              1.30
mh dps                    7.29      3.15      2762.33        62.90
oh dps                    4.40      1.90      2737.42        37.99
DPS sim:

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 51.70

flurry uptime                  91.26%
unleashed rage uptime          100.00%
elemental devastation uptime   72.82%

mh enchant uptime              34.16%
oh enchant uptime              42.11%
trinket1 uptime                47.31%
trinket2 uptime                40.16%
totem uptime                   50.28%
set bonus uptime               99.99%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1052.71   39%       81.05
windfury            596.35    22.09%    13.39
stormstrike         195.04    7.23%     6.69      47.61     19.56%
lava lash           91.98     3.41%     8.56      30.46     12.51%
searing totem       119.37    4.42%     0.00
earth shock         278.86    10.33%    9.05      76.82     31.55%
lightning bolt      365.00    13.52%    9.36      88.57     36.38%

DPS                 2699.30
MPS                 243.47
MP2min              29215.89
Is MW uptime supposed to be that high, as it doesn't really map on the findings of in-game ppm reports.


And for completeness the config:

simulation_time                 60000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   15
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           2
ep_crit_rating                  1
ep_hit_rating                   1
ep_expertise                    1
ep_haste_rating                 1
ep_armor_penetration_rating     1
ep_spellpower                   1
ep_dps                          20.0

mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          103.0
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         30.52
oh_crit                         30.52
mh_hit                          11.73
oh_hit                          11.73
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              2185
haste                           6.21
armor_penetration               16.48
str                             259
agi                             306
int                             200
spellpower                      655
spell_crit                      24.56
spell_hit                       14.66
base_mana                       5678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        madness_of_the_betrayer
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       skyshatter_harness_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    -
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -
#505SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Really tight mean extremely high run time too. There is allways some noice when you simulate things. If standart deviation is 0.04% and you try ep_ range that is 0.04% of your dps you will only get problems. Ap ep range should be very high its scale linearly and all other rating are calcuted via ap dps value. Other should be low but still high enough to be much higher than noise.

Mw ppm is 10 with single wield.
You did get 32mw procs per minute. It's match perfectly when you include things like two weapons, haste and instants.



Edit: If you are very near to some cap use negative ep range. This give almoust same value but you can use bigger range and lower effect of noise.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 10/12/08 at 5:58 PM.
#506SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Ye, I think you took my advice a bit to an extreme, you should for every stat basically have an EP step that kind of matches the upgrade you see on items compared to your current gear. About hit, if you're about 1 percent from the cap, try setting the EP step to 10 (at level 70, the rating/% is about 12.6 if I remember correctly) or maybe down to 5 or something, then try various larger steps and see the difference. If the sim is working correctly (and if I've understood it correctly), you should be seeing an effect on your EP for hit as you reach the spellhit cap. However, the last % still gives you a positive boost to spelldamage, so it won't drop flat. To see THAT effect, you need to set your current hit % to 14 (presuming you have misery/imp ff on the boss).

I have not gone through the above steps myself at the moment, but if I've understood this correctly, I motion that someone writes "idiot's guide to enhsim", especially regarding EP ranges and caps. There are alot of pitfalls to the unenlightened, but at the same time it gives you excellent control of what you want to test.
#507SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Karok(EU)
I just realised it doesnt count the 5-stack mw's but the single mw's, making it a 51.7/5 = 10.34 5-stacks per min which allmost map against the 9.36 "ppm" of LB.

I'll have the sim run with my 1/rating 2-ap stepping again for an hour or 600.000 when I'm off doing worky-stuff and another one the day after.

Would it be perhaps be good to lower the default steps of each stat? Or atleast have some concensus on what steps per stat would be more practical then either the really low or really high steps to generate more unified results as people use it?

I don't know how you got to 32mw ppm btw Pitbuller, reported ppm is 51.7.

The negative spellpower seemed kinda odd, as was the switch from having agi as best stat to having ap beating agi.
#508SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Raut
I made some changes to the gemming on PTR, lost the pure crit gems(30 cr in total) for hit/ag and replaced 3 of those with 20 AP. Dual WF went down 9 DPS. Sadly made some mistakes with gemming that last round so it hardly made a dent in DPS. I'll have to manually deduct all the gems and experiment with different ones in the sim.

Damn all these synergies!

Edit; Riddle me this: I lose crit, crit EP goes a little up, still only 1.8. I go up in AP which the sim clocks in at 2 with it's relative item budget, yet overall DPS goes down. Melee crit dropped under 30% unbuffed though. My config is based on Pibuller's BestDPSBuild; think I have to go over all the buffs.

Last edited by Raut : 10/12/08 at 6:27 PM.
#509SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Karok(EU) View Post
I just realised it doesnt count the 5-stack mw's but the single mw's, making it a 51.7/5 = 10.34 5-stacks per min which allmost map against the 9.36 "ppm" of LB.

I'll have the sim run with my 1/rating 2-ap stepping again for an hour or 600.000 when I'm off doing worky-stuff and another one the day after.

Would it be perhaps be good to lower the default steps of each stat? Or atleast have some concensus on what steps per stat would be more practical then either the really low or really high steps to generate more unified results as people use it?

I don't know how you got to 32mw ppm btw Pitbuller, reported ppm is 51.7.

The negative spellpower seemed kinda odd, as was the switch from having agi as best stat to having ap beating agi.
Don't waste your CPU time to that. Use higher ap ep range. You don't gain any accuracy when you use low ap ep range you lose it and big time.

Negative spell power ep value caused by your silly ep ranges. If you add 1spellpower you should get 0.3dps. Sim variance can be over 1dps. Your ep values are noise. Don't trust those. You only proved that two simulator run aren't 100% identically. There is no reason to use so low values. You can only stack one stat with gems. Gems have 20rating/stat.

32mw ppm was mistake actual ppm was 46.6proc per minute

Lightning bolt      365.00    13.52%    9.36      88.57     36.38%
9.36 lightning bolt per minute.
5 * 9.36 = 46.6 procs(used) per minute.
#510SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Perhaps if the sim detects that you're going to go over cap (and thus make the stat a 0 weight) the sim should attempt to find a step value that is less than (Stat_Cap - Current_Stat_Value) and run the test again.

Alternatively the report output should additionally state the stat step size could be lowered to produce a valid value.
#511SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3dedmonwakeen
Tukez:

What was the final decision on Maelstrom Weapon? How many procs per minutes? Also: Watching all the data extraction posts stream by, it really seemed like some forms of haste actually increased the proc rate..... I want to make sure I model it the same way you chose to....
#512SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Don't waste your CPU time to that. Use higher ap ep range. You don't gain any accuracy when you use low ap ep range you lose it and big time.

Negative spell power ep value caused by your silly ep ranges. If you add 1spellpower you should get 0.3dps. Sim variance can be over 1dps. Your ep values are noise. Don't trust those. You only proved that two simulator run aren't 100% identically. There is no reason to use so low values. You can only stack one stat with gems. Gems have 20rating/stat.

32mw ppm was mistake actual ppm was 46.6proc per minute

Lightning bolt      365.00    13.52%    9.36      88.57     36.38%
9.36 lightning bolt per minute.
5 * 9.36 = 46.6 procs(used) per minute.
I used these, as far as I know it was you who came up with them, right Pitbuller? My understanding was to take realistic upgrade "jumps" as EP ranges:

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap 				40
ep_crit_rating 			20
ep_hit_rating 			20
ep_expertise 			20 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	20
ep_spellpower 			24
ep_dps				7.5
#513SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zaurok
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
I made some changes to the gemming on PTR, lost the pure crit gems(30 cr in total) for hit/ag and replaced 3 of those with 20 AP. Dual WF went down 9 DPS. Sadly made some mistakes with gemming that last round so it hardly made a dent in DPS. I'll have to manually deduct all the gems and experiment with different ones in the sim.

Damn all these synergies!

Edit; Riddle me this: I lose crit, crit EP goes a little up, still only 1.8. I go up in AP which the sim clocks in at 2 with it's relative item budget, yet overall DPS goes down. Melee crit dropped under 30% unbuffed though. My config is based on Pibuller's BestDPSBuild; think I have to go over all the buffs.
I wish there was a level 73 (boss) dummy to test things on as you cannot test +hit gear/gems on the level 70. Why? Because you only require 4% to hit with spells and pretty much everyone has at least 4% spell hit from gear alone making you spell hit capped on a level 70.
The cap is 17% on bosses (73) mobs atm. If there's a level 73 dummy somewhere, let me know.
#514SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Zaurok View Post
I wish there was a level 73 (boss) dummy to test things on as you cannot test +hit gear/gems on the level 70. Why? Because you only require 4% to hit with spells and pretty much everyone has at least 4% spell hit from gear alone making you spell hit capped on a level 70.
The cap is 17% on bosses (73) mobs atm. If there's a level 73 dummy somewhere, let me know.
This is the sim, baby, where level 73 dummies are plenty, girls are willing, mana is free and I reign supreme. It gets a little lonely after the 5000 hours though.

No-one have any thoughts about my previous crit for AP remark?
#515SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Perhaps if the sim detects that you're going to go over cap (and thus make the stat a 0 weight) the sim should attempt to find a step value that is less than (Stat_Cap - Current_Stat_Value) and run the test again.

Alternatively the report output should additionally state the stat step size could be lowered to produce a valid value.
Ok, I'll do something about this.

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen View Post
Tukez:

What was the final decision on Maelstrom Weapon? How many procs per minutes? Also: Watching all the data extraction posts stream by, it really seemed like some forms of haste actually increased the proc rate..... I want to make sure I model it the same way you chose to....
2/4/6/8/10 PPM. Any form of haste increases proc rate == Any form of haste does not affect the proc chance == Any form of haste increases the observed PPM.

Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
9.36 lightning bolt per minute.
5 * 9.36 = 46.6 procs(used) per minute.
I think the difference comes from the fact, that you can't use all the charges every time. Sometime you get more than 5 and those go to waste, but they still show on the MW PPM stat.
#516SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I think the difference comes from the fact, that you can't use all the charges every time. Sometime you get more than 5 and those go to waste, but they still show on the MW PPM stat.
I understand that well and this isn't big problem for simulator but it's big problem for human players. Using lightning bolt with only four stack is little better dps and use little more mana. But real game enviroment this could be huge increase for dps. Lot less wasted procs. Even when you try cast when you have four actual cast can be instant becouse human lag is big. Lot's easier game style and better dps.
#517SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
So EnhSim broke somewhere between 0.6.something and 1.3.2 on my RHEL box. Ignore the above slacker stuff, I figured it out.

Patch:
--- EnhSim1.3.2-orig/source/enhsim.cpp  2008-10-08 21:48:26.000000000 +0200
+++ EnhSim1.3.2/source/enhsim.cpp       2008-10-13 11:45:19.733199000 +0200
@@ -441,13 +441,13 @@
   if (fire_resistance_ < 0) fire_resistance_ = 0;
   if (frost_resistance_ < 0) frost_resistance_ = 0;

-  int effective_nature_resistance = (nature_resistance_ + max((TARGET_LEVEL - ATTACKER_LEVEL) * 5, 0) - min(0/*spell penetration*/, 0));
+  int effective_nature_resistance = (nature_resistance_ + std::max((TARGET_LEVEL - ATTACKER_LEVEL) * 5, 0) - std::min(0/*spell penetration*/, 0));
   nature_damage_reduction_ = 1.0f - (effective_nature_resistance / (ATTACKER_LEVEL * 5.0f)) * 75.0f / 100.0f;

-  int effective_fire_resistance = (fire_resistance_ + max((TARGET_LEVEL - ATTACKER_LEVEL) * 5, 0) - min(0/*spell penetration*/, 0));
+  int effective_fire_resistance = (fire_resistance_ + std::max((TARGET_LEVEL - ATTACKER_LEVEL) * 5, 0) - std::min(0/*spell penetration*/, 0));
   fire_damage_reduction_ = 1.0f - (effective_fire_resistance / (ATTACKER_LEVEL * 5.0f)) * 75.0f / 100.0f;

-  int effective_frost_resistance = (frost_resistance_ + max((TARGET_LEVEL - ATTACKER_LEVEL) * 5, 0) - min(0/*spell penetration*/, 0));
+  int effective_frost_resistance = (frost_resistance_ + std::max((TARGET_LEVEL - ATTACKER_LEVEL) * 5, 0) - std::min(0/*spell penetration*/, 0));
   frost_damage_reduction_ = 1.0f - (effective_frost_resistance / (ATTACKER_LEVEL * 5.0f)) * 75.0f / 100.0f;
 }
This makes me able to compile EnhSim once again on Linux. Test run shows the same results as on Vista.

Ho... Calculating EP takes time on this thing. God damn. Better look at som -O options.
#518SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Karok(EU)
So on the ep-step sizes, would I be correct in asuming the "best" or most logical step sizes would simply be the gem stats? And if so, would it perhaps be good to use gemstats as default?
#519SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Quaunaut
Wondering:

Is everything in rating, or only the things that say 'rating' next to it? Should the others be % or hard values, exclusively?

Edit: Also, I just downloaded 1.3.2, and noticed...simulate isn't having me attacking at all. Its doing exclusively Flame Shock, Earth Shock, and Searing Totem.

Last edited by Quaunaut : 10/13/08 at 12:02 PM.
#520SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Wolflord
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
No-one have any thoughts about my previous crit for AP remark?
I had something similar I think. I ran a number of EP runs which consistently gave me AP as the best gem. So then I replaced agility gems with AP gems in my config (in lots of 4gems, ie 1% melee crit for 40AP) yet every time my DPS would drop despite my overall gear's EP increasing. I havnt had time to go back and check things further but its evidence at least of a similar situation.

Edit:: And today I retry these tests and I get more dps from the raw AP, so I dont know what to say. Ignore the above anecdote I think.

Last edited by Wolflord : 10/13/08 at 12:19 PM.
#521SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ronboar
Hi guys

My coding skills never got beyond some very basic BASIC...

So I have no idea how to get the simulator working. I did download and install the visual C++ thing, but now I just get this error 0xc0000135 when i launch the ehnsimgui.

Any help would be appreciated.
#522SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Originally Posted by Karok(EU) View Post
So on the ep-step sizes, would I be correct in asuming the "best" or most logical step sizes would simply be the gem stats? And if so, would it perhaps be good to use gemstats as default?
That's what I've done for hit, as I'm below the cap before regemming for 3.0. So my step is 10 hit, and I've then run another sim with my current stats and spellhit capped to see how it plays out thereafter, and get a feel for where I'll turn with the rest of the regemming.
#523SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.3.3

1.3.3
-Added searing totem to the rotation. Config option is ST. Removed config option use_searing_totem.
-Minor tweak to the expertise cap calculation.
-Removed the cap warnings from GUI for the time being.

enhsim - Google Code


Unfortunately, I don't have much time to develop the sim, schoolwork deadlines are breaking my balls. Next thing I'll do, is Feral Spirit, I think. If it scales with ap, it will affect the EP values too.

How is the GUI, Levva?
#524SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.3.4

1.3.4
-Fixed expertise cap warning and fixed the warnings in the GUI.
-Lightning Shield, Blackened Naaru Sliver, Darkmoon Card Crusade, Fury of the Five Flight and Illustration of the Dragon soul now show the their stack in the combatlog output.

enhsim - Google Code

I fixed the expertise cap, again. Never should code when you're tired.
#525SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ridan
Spell hit goes past cap by 1.58537% (20 hit rating).
Mh expertise goes past cap by 5.28293 expertise (20.8269 expertise rating).
Oh expertise goes past cap by 5.28293 expertise (20.8269 expertise rating).


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2911.81
ap                        1.00      0.54      2933.53        21.73
crit rating               1.76      0.96      2930.96        19.16
hit rating                1.67      0.91      2930.00        18.19
expertise rating          0
haste rating              2.33      1.27      2937.16        25.35
armor penetration rating  1.65      0.89      2929.68        17.88
spellpower                0.55      0.30      2919.04        7.23
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.95
intelligence              1.26
mh dps                    6.79      3.69      2939.46        27.66
oh dps                    3.55      1.93      2926.27        14.46


elapsed simulation time: 100000.00h

MH:
miss                2715969        10.59%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            6398363        24.95%
hit                 3147725        12.27%
crit                13385722       52.19%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.75%
procs/swings        13.39%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 3795358        47.88%
crit                4131048        52.12%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1890060        47.96%
crit                2051027        52.04%

OH:
miss                2693419        10.50%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            6340687        24.72%
hit                 3110790        12.13%
crit                13502883       52.65%

OH Windfury:
procs/hits          11.08%
procs/swings        10.21%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 3334113        47.54%
crit                3679137        52.46%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1883948        47.80%
crit                2057139        52.20%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1381029        54.78%
crit                1140091        45.22%

Flame Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1379960        54.74%
crit                1141177        45.26%
dots                10084544.00

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2251500        47.47%
crit                2491478        52.53%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3079538        54.74%
crit                2546556        45.26%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1336811        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 53.02

flurry uptime                  97.18%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   81.75%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              35.55%
oh enchant uptime              40.06%
trinket1 uptime                40.16%

trinket2 uptime                40.15%
totem uptime                   46.78%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1228.82   42.2%     85.49
windfury            674.42    23.16%    12.45
stormstrike         213.09    7.32%     6.57      24.35     19.35%
lava lash           93.04     3.2%      7.90      14.65     11.64%
earth shock         138.57    4.76%     4.20      23.35     18.55%
flame shock         132.98    4.57%     4.20      17.26     13.71%
lightning bolt      399.54    13.72%    9.38      46.23     36.74%
lightning shield    31.65     1.09%     0.45      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 2912.12
MPS                 125.83
MP2min              15100.16

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h

#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value

simulation_time			10000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	30	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				150	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				250	//1000 ms = 1s


########### 
#EP RANGES# 
########### 

ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				40
ep_crit_rating 			20
ep_hit_rating 			20
ep_expertise 			3 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	20
ep_spellpower 			24
ep_dps				7.5


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
mh_speed			2.60
oh_speed			2.60
mh_dps				114.4
oh_dps				107.9
mh_crit				30.20	//%
oh_crit				30.20	
mh_hit				11.40	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit				11.40
mh_expertise_rating		112	//notice that these are given as rating, 20 rating is about 5 expertise
oh_expertise_rating		112
ap				2137	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
haste				8.56	//%
armor_penetration		17.02	//%
str				109
agi				325
int				210
spellpower			641	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit			24.83	//%
spell_hit			14.00	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
base_mana			2958

mh_imbue	 		windfury	
oh_imbue	 		windfury


mh_enchant			executioner
oh_enchant			mongoose


trinket1			blackened_naaru_sliver
trinket2			shard_of_contempt

totem				stonebreakers_totem


set_bonus			-

metagem				relentless_earthstorm_diamond

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			windfury_weapon
glyph_major2			-
glyph_major3			-
glyph_major4			-
//{ lightning_shield | flametongue_weapon | lightning_bolt |
  //  windfury_weapon | stormstrike | earth_shock | - }

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-


###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		2	//{ 0 | 1 | 2 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left		0.0	//maximum seconds to wait for LvB cooldown to use MW
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS


rotation_priority_count		6
rotation_priority1		MW5_LB
rotation_priority2		SS
rotation_priority3		FS
rotation_priority4		ES
rotation_priority5		LL
rotation_priority6		LS


##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				9.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			25.00	//%
armor				7700	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0


#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		2/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		1/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			5/5
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			1/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			5/5
call_of_flame			0/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			0/1
elemental_fury			0/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/5


######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		2600/2600		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		610/610		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	2.0/2.0		//%, bloody frenzy, 2nd talent spec TBA
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		306/306		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	99.7/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	10.0/10.0	//%, improved scorch, winter's chill
spell_damage_debuff		10.0/10.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of elements, totem of wrath
spellpower_buff			150/150		//focus magic, improved divine spirit, flametongue totem, demonic pact
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			3.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	3.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			19/19		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		98/98		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			40/40		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence


#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			elixir_of_major_agility

guardian_elixir			elixir_of_draenic_wisdom

potion				haste_potion

food				ravager_dog

misc_item			drums_of_battle
2 things I would like to highlight in my sim:
I put 14% spell hit (164 hit rating => 13% spell hit +1% draeni Aura), and the ep calculation foundd that I'm 1.58537% (20 hit rating), other the hit cap (I don't use spice_hot_talbuk). Same goes for the Expertise cap, I should only be 2 expertise (not rating) above the expertise cap.

I'm a little surprised at the ep rating I have for haste. It seems that MW scales really well with haste in the sim.
#551SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shamanzomg
I am using the default enhsim value of 7700. Major arm debuff 2600 Minor 610. Thats strange, I am gonna do some more runs...
#552SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Truu
What values should I use for the "EP Ranges"? If there is some way to personally figure it out, please help. New to using sims. Thanks ahead of time.
#553SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Feedback on the Import from Armoury java program. This has stalled a lot as I've got caught up in improving ShockAndAwe and doing lots of testing. However I just had a lightbulb moment. What if I add an option to ShockAndAwe to export (cut n'paste) your paperdoll, glyph and talent settings.

Tukez would it be possible to add a suitable import option to the sim to make this possible? ie: perhaps some means of allowing paper doll stats to be input separate from the other config options. This would mean that the sim could take two config files. Paper doll stats, glyphs & talents file and a buffs, rotations, config options file.

Is this idea possible or something you would consider? If so I can add in some of the stuff I'd planned for the java app to ShockAndAwe so that players could simply click a button to create the paperdoll/glyph/talent export data format.

This would then completely isolate any work I'm doing from changes to EnhSim, as one of the issues with the Java App I was struggling with was how to interpret the config file if you had made changes - eg: adding new parameters.

With a separate paper doll/glyph/talent file and a buffs/rotations/settings file, the only time changes would be needed to the format of the paper doll file would be if blizzard changed the stats or talents.

Is this a possibility?
#554SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Stopokingme
I'm not a big fan of mods that have way to many functions rolled into one. Why not just make it a separate mod instead? I personally don't use ShockAndAwe, that's why I'm asking.

Now that I think of it, might be nice to implement and EquivalencePoints like functionality into the mod that exports your stats, haven't tried EquivalencePoints yet this patch, but I presume it to be dead.

Last edited by Stopokingme : 10/17/08 at 7:44 AM.
#555SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Stopokingme View Post
I'm not a big fan of mods that have way to many functions rolled into one. Why not just make it a separate mod instead? I personally don't use ShockAndAwe, that's why I'm asking.

Now that I think of it, might be nice to implement and EquivalencePoints like functionality into the mod that exports your stats, haven't tried EquivalencePoints yet this patch, but I presume it to be dead.
Equivalence points works just fine. You just can't use the defaults any more, then again the best use of it was always to enter your own personal numbers. I'll miss the import feature to import from Yo! However would be very very easy for Tukez to add an EP string to the output so we could cut and paste it into Equivalence Points. The format is a simple one after all.

As for writing a separate mod. Why? ShockAndAwe is aimed at being a mod for Enh Shammys to give them everything they need to work the most efficiently. Having a very specific feature that is only of relevance to Enh Shammys sits perfectly with an Enh Shammy mod!!

Also since you don't use it I suspect you are not aware that the design philosophy is to make all parts of the mod optional so that users use as much or as little as they like, yet have it all in one mod tightly focused on ONLY Enh Shammys. ie: I won't put in totem management, or things of generic benefit to shammys its going to be purely for Enh Shammys. This design philosophy means that users can use it for just the export feature if they don't want the other parts and the other parts will be turned off and not executed at all, thus acting as if it was a smaller mod.
#556SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Sorry if my post came out as offensive, it wasn't meant to be. It's just that my experiences with mods with a lot of functions aren't to good I guess, which has made me look for separate smaller addons to get the functionality I want.

Regardless, considering the sim is taking more of a general approach as well, aiming at enhancement and elemental shamans right now, the elementals might feel a bit silly installing an enhancement mod just so they can export stats.

Anyway, before I come of again as bashing your idea again, I like your idea, would make life simpler for all of us. Didn't know about the modular design, might not have been implemented yet when I tried earlier versions of your mod, but I guess I can live with being able to turn stuff of
#557SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3HeeroTheShaman
Any chance of getting a Mac version of this program done? I don't have a pc around to use this, and it sounds really great.
#558SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Yeah the early versions of ShockAndAwe was all or nothing. I have substantially re-written it with the goal of being modular that it uses only what you want it to use. Eventually I hope to make it with sub modules so that you only load what you choose to use. This design I feel meets both objectives a single mod (thus easy updating) with lots of user choice as to what features to use/or not.

On the Sim and Macs. It would be fantastic if someone who has a Mac and a bit of technical knowledge would volunteer to compile a mac version of the Sim. At present Tukez supplies all the source code, all we need is someone to compile that code and upload the mac executables. This would need to be done whenever there was a new sim uploaded.

It should be fairly straightforward once you have done it once, it could be scripted to simply ftp get the new source code compile it and ftp post the new executable back to the site again. We just need that someone with a Mac.
#559SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rosboeuf
Hi everyone,

Long-time reader, first time poster. I use a Mac and would love to help compile a Mac version. I have tech knowledge but no programming knowledge, although I do have a developer friend who does, so I could probably get something done this weekend?

Looking over this thread, I assume that calculating the EP values for us is still the subject of on-going research (hence the simulator!). Looking at the most recent values posted by people, it seems that while individual runs do vary, the EP figures for each stat are more or less in the same range.

While calculations are on-going, would it be appropriate as a stop-gap measure to just take an average of the EP values for use in things like Pawn or Lootrank?
#560SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Are people unable to compile EnhSim with gcc on Macs, or are you using other compilers? I've requested actual compile errors from Mac users earlier to try to help solve the problem. There's no actual information from anyone trying right now, just "it didn't compile".
#561SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
I just think no one has put their head above the water and said "I'm happy to be the regular compiler (pun not intentional) of the Mac version". The individuals who have tried compiling for a Mac before have been solo users who have as you said just replied "it didn't compile" which is useless. As a non mac user I can't help.

Hopefully if Rosboeuf is up to the challenge between us we can get any issues sorted out and get him regularly compiling the sim and uploading the executable as a service to the mac users and that part of the Enh Shammy community.


Rosboeuf if you could pull down the latest code from the source and try to compile it - check earlier in this thread for details about a processor threading issue. If it works great, if not see if your developer friend can help if not then post the actual error so those of us that can debug these things can get it working.

Once its working, getting permissions to upload it somewhere can be sorted, and we can update the thread with details so mac users can use the sim "out of the box" too. It would then just be a case of you keeping on top of updates and re-compiling when Tukez releases a new version. This would mean a slight lag for Mac users but its better than nothing for those who have no clue what a compiler is.

On the EP values the problem is at present putting in a big effort to establish a base EP values is not hugely productive when things may change and we only have a couple of weeks until Wrath anyway. What will be a lot more productive is producing stable EP values for Naxx geared and beyond shamans. Of course we may need pre-Naxx values too but these should quickly lose usefulness.

Last edited by Levva : 10/17/08 at 10:06 AM.
#562SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Are people unable to compile EnhSim with gcc on Macs, or are you using other compilers? I've requested actual compile errors from Mac users earlier to try to help solve the problem. There's no actual information from anyone trying right now, just "it didn't compile".
Well in prior attempts gcc failed out complaining about the formatting of the file. Now when I tried last week, I couldn't get it to recognize where the Boost lib was at. It kept complaining that the files didn't exist, even though I was providing the linkage to gcc.
#563SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rosboeuf
Thanks Levva. I will take a look tonight/tomorrow morning and will post a detailed update here.
#564SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Well in prior attempts gcc failed out complaining about the formatting of the file. Now when I tried last week, I couldn't get it to recognize where the Boost lib was at. It kept complaining that the files didn't exist, even though I was providing the linkage to gcc.
Full command with reported errors, please. I'm sure I saw tukez say that you only needed a header file from Boost somewhere.
#565SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Ronboar
Removed the rubbish

Last edited by Ronboar : 10/17/08 at 7:15 PM.
#566SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shamanzomg
I am still getting 5dps higher with exec/goose, can someone please check if something in my config file is abnormal or if this result is legit?

2x Goose = 3068dps
Goose/Exec = 3073dps


simulation_time 500
simulation_time_combatlog 30
combat_length 6
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 0
max_lag 0

ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 300
ep_crit_rating 100
ep_hit_rating 20
ep_expertise 5
ep_haste_rating 300
ep_armor_penetration_rating 20
ep_spellpower 300
ep_dps 7.5

mh_speed 2.60
oh_speed 2.60
mh_dps 100.2
oh_dps 107.9
mh_crit 28.72
oh_crit 28.72
mh_hit 17.47
oh_hit 17.47
mh_expertise_rating 102
oh_expertise_rating 83
ap 2175
haste 4.62
armor_penetration 13
str 114
agi 369
int 252
spellpower 653
spell_crit 18.08
spell_hit 14.35
base_mana 3780

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue windfury

mh_enchant mongoose
oh_enchant mongoose (just changed here to Executioner)

trinket1 berserkers_call
trinket2 shard_of_contempt

totem stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus skyshatter_harness_4

metagem relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1 windfury_weapon
glyph_major2 lightning_shield
glyph_major3 -

glyph_minor1 -
glyph_minor2 -
glyph_minor3 -

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 0
bloodlust_casters 2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left 0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 0

rotation_priority_count 5
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 ES
rotation_priority3 SS
rotation_priority4 LL
rotation_priority5 LS

miss 9.00
dodge 6.50
glancing 25.00
armor 7700
spell_miss 17.00
nature_resistance 0
fire_resistance 0
frost_resistance 0

ancestral_knowledge 2/5
improved_shields 0/3
mental_dexterity 3/3
shamanistic_focus 1/1
flurry 5/5
elemental_weapons 3/3
unleashed_rage 5/5
weapon_mastery 3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness 3/3
improved_stormstrike 2/2
static_shock 3/3
maelstrom_weapon 5/5
convection 0/5
concussion 5/5
call_of_flame 0/3
elemental_devastation 3/3
reverberation 0/5
elemental_focus 0/1
elemental_fury 0/5
call_of_thunder 0/1
elemental_precision 0/3
lightning_mastery 0/5
elemental_oath 0/2
lightning_overload 0/5
lava_flows 0/3
storm_earth_and_fire 0/5

armor_debuff_major 2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor 610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff 2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff 20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat 381/381
attack_power_buff_multiplier 0/99.7
spell_haste_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff 10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff 10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
haste_buff 3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase 3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff 19/19
agi_and_strength_buff 98/98
intellect_buff 40/40

flask_elixir flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir -
potion -
food spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item -
#567SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mindrila
So I just made a quick and dirty java-app to calculate mean ep values for me and give me a string to import it into EquivalencePoints (which is quite useful but I think there might be some problems after 3.0 because of the new stats, so it has to be updated somehow)

You can download it from here: EPMeaner (what a great name)
EPMeaner Source

The usage:
Copy your Enhsim output into a single file.
(Should look like this:
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2698.94
ap                        1.00      0.48      2718.29        19.35
crit rating               1.25      0.60      2704.97        6.03
hit rating                4.06      1.96      2718.56        19.62
expertise rating          3.89      1.88      2734.75        35.81
haste rating              0.66      0.32      2702.13        3.19
armor penetration rating  1.40      0.68      2712.51        13.57
spellpower                1.16      0.56      2704.54        5.60
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.85
intelligence              1.17
mh dps                    7.07      3.42      2724.60        25.66
oh dps                    3.94      1.91      2713.25        14.31


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2696.86
ap                        1.00      0.58      2720.01        23.16
crit rating               1.91      1.11      2707.92        11.06
hit rating                3.66      2.12      2718.04        21.18
expertise rating          3.55      2.06      2735.91        39.05
haste rating              0.92      0.53      2702.17        5.31
armor penetration rating  1.46      0.85      2713.81        16.95
spellpower                1.36      0.79      2704.75        7.90
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.06
intelligence              1.27
mh dps                    6.24      3.62      2723.97        27.11
oh dps                    3.69      2.13      2712.87        16.01
.....
Do not delete anything, especially no double spaces because I use them to split up the results)

Go into a nice console and type something like "java EPMeaner EP.txt"

Then you will hopefully get something like this:
Mean AP EP: 1.00
Mean strength EP: 1.10
Mean agility EP: 1.8283333333333331
Mean intelligence EP: 1.1849999999999998
Mean crit rating EP: 1.2616666666666667
Mean hit rating EP: 3.73
Mean expertise rating EP: 3.681666666666666
Mean haste rating EP: 0.6966666666666667
Mean armor penetration rating EP: 1.405
Mean spellpower EP: 1.215
Equivalence Points import string:
^1^T^SCR_SPELLHIT^N3.73^SATTACKPOWER^N1.0^SCR_SPELLHASTE^N0.6966666666666667^SDM
G^N1.215^SCR_HIT^N3.73^SCR_EXPERTISE^N3.681666666666666^SSTR^N1.1^SINT^N1.184999
9999999998^SCR_SPELLCRIT^N1.2616666666666667^SCR_CRIT^N1.2616666666666667^SCR_HA
STE^N0.6966666666666667^SAGI^N1.8283333333333331^SIGNOREARMOR^N1.405^t^^
You can copy and paste the import string under "session import" in EP config menu.
Actually I was to lazy to calculate AP and Strength so they are hardcoded to 1 and 1.1

The java file was compiled on JDK 1.6 on Windows but I don't think I used some great stuff so it should work on every machine.
#568SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
chadbrochill
a few suggestions:
Dragonstrike
Hyjal Rings
SSO Necks Aldor/Scryer
minor glyphs


THanks

Last edited by chadbrochill : 10/17/08 at 5:09 PM.
#569SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
ChaguraED
Originally Posted by Shamanzomg View Post
I am still getting 5dps higher with exec/goose, can someone please check if something in my config file is abnormal or if this result is legit?

2x Goose = 3068dps
Goose/Exec = 3073dps


simulation_time 500
simulation_time_combatlog 30
combat_length 6
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 0
max_lag 0

ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 300
ep_crit_rating 100
ep_hit_rating 20
ep_expertise 5
ep_haste_rating 300
ep_armor_penetration_rating 20
ep_spellpower 300
ep_dps 7.5

mh_speed 2.60
oh_speed 2.60
mh_dps 100.2
oh_dps 107.9
mh_crit 28.72
oh_crit 28.72
mh_hit 17.47
oh_hit 17.47
mh_expertise_rating 102
oh_expertise_rating 83
ap 2175
haste 4.62
armor_penetration 13
str 114
agi 369
int 252
spellpower 653
spell_crit 18.08
spell_hit 14.35
base_mana 3780

Your hit looks very High. This sim is different then Yo!'s in that you only enter the paper doll's hit, not the extras you get from talent points.
I'll check you stats in my sim now though, see if it can be re-created

EDIT: Found it. Your Armor penetration is entered as the rate, not the %. You have to use the % in the sim. In your case, that 13 arP rating is worth 2.43%. The sim thinksyou have 13% passive ArP right now.

If I run your stats using 11.47% hit from gear, and the right ArP %, I get 2,850 DPS using Both Executioner and Mongoose.

P.S. I have you with 3/3 Static shock, and 3/3 Elemental Devastation. I do not believe both of these are possible at 70 using your config. You have to give up a point somewhere in the enhancement. i.e. 4/5 maelstrom or some sort.

Last edited by ChaguraED : 10/17/08 at 5:48 PM.
#570SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ronboar
A question about expertise in this sim.

I have the SoC trinket and the searing grip gloves for a grand total of 62 expertise rating. This gives me 15 expertise.

When i put my expertise rating into the sim (62) it tells me that I am over the cap.

My config
mh_speed 2.50
oh_speed 2.50
mh_dps 100.3
oh_dps 100.3
mh_crit 25.69
oh_crit 25.69
mh_hit 13.06
oh_hit 13.06
mh_expertise_rating 62
oh_expertise_rating 62
ap 1893
haste 2.79 //%
armor_penetration 3.92 //%
str 188
agi 341
int 134
spellpower 567
spell_crit 18.12
spell_hit 16.33
base_mana 2958
And the EP

Set bonus not found.
Spell hit goes past cap by 2.49537% (31.48 hit rating).
Mh expertise goes past cap by 9.6 expertise (37.8462 expertise rating).
Oh expertise goes past cap by 9.6 expertise (37.8462 expertise rating).

EP value DPS total DPS difference

baseline 1352.70
ap 1.00 0.32 1365.40 12.70
crit rating 2.17 0.69 1366.47 13.77
hit rating 1.45 0.46 1361.88 9.18
expertise rating 1.59 0.51 1392.58 39.89
haste rating 1.48 0.47 1362.08 9.38
armor penetration rating 1.65 0.52 1363.18 10.49
spellpower 0.77 0.24 1358.57 5.87
strength 1.00
agility 1.76
intelligence 1.29
mh dps 6.31 2.00 1367.73 15.03
oh dps 3.31 1.05 1360.57 7.88


elapsed simulation time: 110000.00h
elapsed real time: 236.50s
simulation speed: 1674418x
As far as I can tell this means that my expertise is weighted to low in the EPs. Any help would be appreciated.
#571SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ChaguraED
Originally Posted by Ronboar View Post
A question about expertise in this sim.

I have the SoC trinket and the searing grip gloves for a grand total of 62 expertise rating. This gives me 15 expertise.

When i put my expertise rating into the sim (62) it tells me that I am over the cap.

My config

And the EP

As far as I can tell this means that my expertise is weighted to low in the EPs. Any help would be appreciated.

At the start of the sim, there is the EP steps. What this means is that for each of those values, it'll add that stat in that amount and test your DPS again. So for Crit=20, that means it'll add 20 crit and test your DPS again to see how it improves it.

In your case, your current Expertise, plus the step, is over the expertise cap. So its warning you that the expertise it's adding isn't quite accurate, since a certain amount of it is over the cap.
Yuo can try to lower the step size of EP, and see if that fixes it (try like half the default value)
#572SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Tukez - new build changes inbound that will affect the sim. See details in my post on the Enh Shammy thread

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t27014-e...32/#post942152
#573SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kelben
What I've taken to doing is running the sim generated numbers through lootrank, and the taking the link from lootrank and importing that into EQP mod. I've just unsure how to account for armor pen now... a value of .25 roughly puts armor pen value at what i'd expect it to be but it just me guessing, any tips on how to handle that stat now?
#574SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ronboar
Originally Posted by ChaguraED View Post
At the start of the sim, there is the EP steps. What this means is that for each of those values, it'll add that stat in that amount and test your DPS again. So for Crit=20, that means it'll add 20 crit and test your DPS again to see how it improves it.

In your case, your current Expertise, plus the step, is over the expertise cap. So its warning you that the expertise it's adding isn't quite accurate, since a certain amount of it is over the cap.
Yuo can try to lower the step size of EP, and see if that fixes it (try like half the default value)

Worked like a charm! thanks.

Maybe a line could be added for the dim witted (like me).

########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated.
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.
//If your paperdoll value plus the EP range gets you over the cap for that particular skill, the simulator will rate the EP accordingly.
Or something along those lines...
#575SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mindrila
Well I am wondering if I'm doing something wrong, because I get ridiculous values for haste, sometimes they are negative. I only have 1.33% haste so I don't believe that I stacked to much of it.

Perhaps someone can point at a wrong config:
simulation_time                 20000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   600000
report_count                    80
threads                         3
min_lag                         20
max_lag                         70

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  10
ep_hit_rating                   10
ep_expertise                    5
ep_haste_rating                 10
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   10
ep_dps                          0

mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          103
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         28
oh_crit                         28
mh_hit                          10.53
oh_hit                          10.53
mh_expertise_rating             15
oh_expertise_rating             15
ap                              2116
haste                           1.33
armor_penetration               9.86
str                             205
agi                             419
int                             232
spellpower                      635
spell_crit                      18.71
spell_hit                       14.16
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        dragonspine_trophy
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    -
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LS
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              ST

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          381/381
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       drums_of_battle
#346SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
They do not consume the debuff. Only the DD does.
Yes...or you mean it doesn't get the benefit at all?
#347SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Yes...or you mean it doesn't get the benefit at all?
If they don't consume the debuff the DoT component should not benefit. Same for Flametongue Weapon - it doesn't consume the charge, so it should not receive benefit.
#348SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Also "Fixed Searing totem attack interval to 2.2s." This is right but NPc do not chain cast and right interval then bumbep up to 2.5-2.6s
I'll change this to 2.55s on the next update.
#349SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sorry
Just tested this on the PTR.
Flameshock DoTs benefit from SS debuff while not using up charges.
Lightning Shield charges benefit from SS debuff while not using up charges.
#350SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Sorry View Post
Just tested this on the PTR.
Flameshock DoTs benefit from SS debuff while not using up charges.

Well that's odd. Oh well, can't complain about that I guess.
#351SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by Malan View Post

Well that's odd. Oh well, can't complain about that I guess.
Which further emphasizes the 'spelly' nature of our damage come expansion :P
#352SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
In the future could you add some kind of scrolling ability to the gui? I can see only the half of it on a 17" monitor in 1024*768. The parts that are right from the half of buff column aren't visible in any way in this resolution.
#353SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
How about those static shock charges. Blues say that those don't eat charges but do they still get benefit like flame shock dot.
#354SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.1.2

Originally Posted by Aximous View Post
In the future could you add some kind of scrolling ability to the gui? I can see only the half of it on a 17" monitor in 1024*768. The parts that are right from the half of buff column aren't visible in any way in this resolution.
1.1.2
-Fixed Searing totem interval to 2.55s.
-Lightning Shield changed not to consume SS debuff, but still gain the benefit.

enhsim - Google Code

Now when you maximize the window, you'll get scroll bar.
#355SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
Great, thanks.
#356SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Low Life
Originally Posted by Malan View Post

Well that's odd. Oh well, can't complain about that I guess.
Not really odd at all, considering warlocks have had the same mechanics for around two years now with Improved Shadow Bolt.
#357SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
edited out

Last edited by Rouncer : 09/24/08 at 1:32 PM.
#358SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
When you run ep values. How do you do it?
You must edit start_ep_calculation file or else it's run wrong 70lvl exe file.
enhsim_lvl80.exe config.txt ep
I bet you Rounced get too low spell damage ep value becouse of that.

80lvl ep values.
D:\Sim2>enhsim_lvl80.exe 80.txt ep
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      4274.80
ap                        1         0.54      4435.37        160.57
crit rating               2.09      1.12      4386.43        111.63
hit rating                3.10      1.66      4399.17        124.37
expertise rating          1.85      0.99      4354.81        80.01
haste rating              1.39      0.74      4423.17        148.37
armor penetration rating  0.68      0.36      4305.76        30.96
spellpower                1.26      0.68      4477.63        202.83
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.07
intelligence              1.34
elapsed simulation time: 90000.00h
Notes: Expertice don't seem so important anymore. Int seems to be ok. Haste value is low but armor penetration flat out suck.

Damage values and breakdown:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1183.41   27.68%    109.30
windfury            498.98    11.67%    5.90
flametongue         442.84    10.36%    71.55
stormstrike         201.13    4.7%      6.69      22.46     25.44%
lava lash           123.99    2.9%      8.38      9.62      10.89%
searing totem       255.69    5.98%     0.00
earth shock         170.63    3.99%     3.17      11.69     13.24%
flame shock         264.45    6.19%     5.83      6.77      7.67%
lava burst          616.51    14.42%    5.35      20.28     22.97%
lightning bolt      352.62    8.25%     5.05      17.48     19.79%
lightning shield    165.22    3.86%     0.83      0.00      0.00%
DPS                 4275.48
Notes: Spell damage overcomes melee damage very early stages of gear.


Config: Almoust same that I have posted in this thread before. Normally I cap spell hit but If I do it when running ep values but then people just don't understand how high value hit have. I used Wf and SS glyphs.
You can get couple more dps if you get more comlex rotation but those are too hard to do at in-game.

Config:
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   75
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_penetration_rating     85
ep_spellpower                   300

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         20.0
oh_crit                         20.0
mh_hit                          8.0
oh_hit                          8.0
mh_expertise_rating             50
oh_expertise_rating             50
ap                              2500
haste                           0
armor_penetration               0
str                             150
agi                             500
int                             50
spellpower                      750
spell_crit                      15
spell_hit                       11
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        berserkers_call
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    -
glyph_major4                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              fs
rotation_priority2              mw_lvb
rotation_priority3              mw_lb
rotation_priority4              ss
rotation_priority5              es
rotation_priority6              ls
rotation_priority7              ll

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   1/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       drums_of_battle
If you see some fancy about config say so becouse this is next base config file.
#359SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Few things.

1. How do you have 11% spell hit but only 8% melee hit? Especially since Dual Wield Spec gives 6% melee hit. Change it to 10% spell hit and 14% melee hit. (since 10% spell hit is equal to 8% melee hit). If it's because Dual Wield spec doesn't show on the paper doll then just reduce the Spell hit to 10% so that it is equal to the Melee Hit.

2. Your crit percentages are a bit off. Raise the Intellect to 166 and then they are fine, since 500 Agi gives 6% melee crit + 5% for Thundering Strikes = 9% from crit rating. Then Spell crit would be 9% from gear + 5% from Thundering Strikes + 1% from the 166 Intellect.

3. As for the ep values wouldn't it make more sense for them to be worked on a 1% basis? Something like:

ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 46
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 33
ep_haste_rating 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating 15
ep_spellpower 38

That way all the ratings are worth a 1% change in value and the AP and Spellpower are an equal ilevel budget to those ratings values. By using that as the stepping stone between values shouldn't the results be more accurate?
#360SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Few things.

1. How do you have 11% spell hit but only 8% melee hit? Especially since Dual Wield Spec gives 6% melee hit. Change it to 10% spell hit and 14% melee hit. (since 10% spell hit is equal to 8% melee hit). If it's because Dual Wield spec doesn't show on the paper doll then just reduce the Spell hit to 10% so that it is equal to the Melee Hit.

2. Your crit percentages are a bit off. Raise the Intellect to 166 and then they are fine, since 500 Agi gives 6% melee crit + 5% for Thundering Strikes = 9% from crit rating. Then Spell crit would be 9% from gear + 5% from Thundering Strikes + 1% from the 166 Intellect.

3. As for the ep values wouldn't it make more sense for them to be worked on a 1% basis? Something like:

ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 46
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 33
ep_haste_rating 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating 15
ep_spellpower 38

That way all the ratings are worth a 1% change in value and the AP and Spellpower are an equal ilevel budget to those ratings values. By using that as the stepping stone between values shouldn't the results be more accurate?
Very good points.
Spell hit should be 10%.(dw spec don't show at paper doll)
Intellect should be something higher. 166 sound pretty good.
Ep ranges was high when I tested with lower simulated times. Your values look pretty much better.
I edited config and sended it to Tukez.
#601SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Can probably put together an Automator script that would ask them to point to the config file they want to use.
#602SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Excellent sounds like with some team work you will have managed to get the Mac users sorted.
#603SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3scalax
Hello to all.

This is my first post here but i'm following this forum since long long time
I'm making this reply to ask you more information about this results that comes out from EnhSim calculating EP Values.

Config File
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         180

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   150
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_penetration_rating     600
ep_spellpower                   300
ep_dps                          20.0

mh_speed                        2.80
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          100.2
oh_dps                          100.2
mh_crit                         26.76
oh_crit                         26.76
mh_hit                          10.72
oh_hit                          10.72
mh_expertise_rating             11
oh_expertise_rating             16
ap                              2191
haste                           3.30
armor_penetration               2.43
str                             186
agi                             355
int                             324
spellpower                      791
spell_crit                      21.22
spell_hit                       13.40
base_mana                       4376

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        madness_of_the_betrayer
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       skyshatter_harness_2

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         0

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      0/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           0/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              0/2600
armor_debuff_minor              0/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/19
agi_and_strength_buff           0/98
intellect_buff                  0/40

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       -

------------------------------
Simulator
------------------------------
Spell hit goes past cap by 8.29024% (104.585 hit rating).

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      611.77
ap                        1.00      0.15      656.00         44.23
crit rating               2.49      0.37      648.47         36.70
hit rating                2.97      0.44      677.56         65.79
expertise rating          3.46      0.51      631.90         20.13
haste rating              2.49      0.37      685.24         73.47
armor penetration rating  3.16      0.47      891.67         279.90
spellpower                0.28      0.04      624.14         12.37
strength                  1.00
agility                   2.32
intelligence              1.11
mh dps                    8.63      1.27      637.22         25.44
oh dps                    3.04      0.45      620.73         8.96


elapsed simulation time: 11000.00h
elapsed real time: 24.41s
simulation speed: 1622551x
As you can see i'm already spell hit capped but the simulator still says that hit rating worth 2.97 (more than crit rating and haste rating). Since i'm not sure about this results i'm asking you if those values are correct (and then i have to go for hit rating gems) or not. In the case they are not correct, any idea about how much hit rating can worth ? Since i have to use this value to compare some equipment pieces that i have (T6 chest and gloves vs Badge Ones)

Thank you for your anwers
#604SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
ChaguraED
Originally Posted by scalax View Post
Hello to all.

This is my first post here but i'm following this forum since long long time
I'm making this reply to ask you more information about this results that comes out from EnhSim calculating EP Values.

As you can see i'm already spell hit capped but the simulator still says that hit rating worth 2.97 (more than crit rating and haste rating). Since i'm not sure about this results i'm asking you if those values are correct (and then i have to go for hit rating gems) or not. In the case they are not correct, any idea about how much hit rating can worth ? Since i have to use this value to compare some equipment pieces that i have (T6 chest and gloves vs Badge Ones)

Thank you for your anwers
You...Aren't spell hit capped.

You show 13.40% Spell hit. The boss has 17.00% spell miss chance. That's 3.6% you're missing. Thus hit rating is showing as Hugely valuable.

If you enable the 3% Spell hit buff in raid buffs, then you'll be 0.6% short. If you change your warp burger to Spicy Hot Talbuk, then you'll cross the spell hit cap, and get the Valid EP ratings.

EDIT: After looking closer, you have inputted Massive EP steps to test. They should be a fraction of that size, such as 40AP, and 20 Crit rating.

And it looks like you've disabled all spell casts anyways? Your config file has you only auto-attacking.
Rotation_priority_count=0 should be 4 or 5, and have all the spells that you'd be using in it.
Just auto attacking will give way different results then a proper rotation.

Your config.txt should have something like this in it:
rotation_priority_count 5
rotation_priority1 ES
rotation_priority2 MW5_LB
rotation_priority3 SS
rotation_priority4 LL
rotation_priority5 LS

Last edited by ChaguraED : 10/20/08 at 1:55 PM.
#605SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3scalax
Thanks for your answer ChaguraED, with your help i have understanded better the functioning of this simulator.

I have changed the configuration accordingly (i left warp burger since i'm interested about a raid environment with +3% hit) and this are the results:
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      1360.54
ap                        1.00      0.28      1371.76        11.22
crit rating               2.18      0.61      1372.78        12.24
hit rating                2.66      0.75      1375.44        14.90
expertise rating          3.41      0.96      1371.84        11.30
haste rating              1.91      0.54      1371.27        10.74
armor penetration rating  1.51      0.42      1369.02        8.49
spellpower                0.99      0.28      1367.20        6.66
strength                  1.00
agility                   1.95
intelligence              1.21
mh dps                    6.18      1.73      1373.55        13.01
oh dps                    2.79      0.78      1366.40        5.86


elapsed simulation time: 11000.00h
elapsed real time: 47.92s
simulation speed: 826360x

------------------------------------
Configuration File
------------------------------------
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         180

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5

mh_speed                        2.80
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          100.2
oh_dps                          100.2
mh_crit                         26.76
oh_crit                         26.76
mh_hit                          10.72
oh_hit                          10.72
mh_expertise_rating             11
oh_expertise_rating             16
ap                              2191
haste                           3.30
armor_penetration               2.43
str                             186
agi                             355
int                             324
spellpower                      791
spell_crit                      21.22
spell_hit                       13.40
base_mana                       4376

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        madness_of_the_betrayer
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       skyshatter_harness_2

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              ES
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      0/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           0/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              0/2600
armor_debuff_minor              0/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/19
agi_and_strength_buff           0/98
intellect_buff                  0/40

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       -
Still the hit rating is valuable but now i know why

edit: pasted wrong config file
#606SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ChaguraED
Those do look reasonable.

Here are my current EP values according to the Sim:
EP
STR 1.10
AGI 2.02
AP 1.00
CRIT 2.06
HIT 2.14
HST 1.80
Apn 1.49
EXP 3.55
STA
INT 1.34
META 75.00

That's with nearly full raid buffs (I ran my sims with the buffs I tend to have in real raids) My Config is at the bottom
The Meta gem value is from the old EP calculations. I assume it's gone up a few points now that it's affecting our spell crits.

Hit is still very valuable, since it directly affects our chance to proc Maelstrom Weapons. My only suggestion would be to change your simulation_time in the config.txt to something higher, like 5,000 or 10,000. that will take longer to run, but offer more stable EP Values.

##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
mh_speed			2.60
oh_speed			2.50
mh_dps		        96.5
oh_dps			103.0
mh_crit			25.24	//%
oh_crit			25.24	
mh_hit			10.42	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit			10.42
mh_expertise_rating	58	//notice that these are given as rating, 20 rating is about 5 expertise
oh_expertise_rating	38
ap				1885	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
haste				8.94	//%
armor_penetration		2.43	//%
str				115
agi				410
int				214
spellpower			587	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit			16.94	//%
spell_hit			13.37	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
base_mana			2958

mh_imbue	 		windfury	
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | - }

mh_enchant			mongoose
oh_enchant			mongoose
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | - }

trinket1			hourglass_of_the_unraveller
trinket2			darkmoon_card_crusade


totem				stonebreakers_totem


set_bonus			-


metagem				relentless_earthstorm_diamond


//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2			windfury_weapon



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		2	//{ 0 | 1 | 2 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	0	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left		0.0	
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	


rotation_priority_count		4
rotation_priority1		ES
rotation_priority2		MW5_LB
rotation_priority3		SS
rotation_priority4		LL




##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				9.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			25.00	//%
armor				7700	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0


#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		3/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		        0/3
mental_dexterity		        3/3
shamanistic_focus		        1/1
flurry				        5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			5/5
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		        3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			0/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			        5/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			        0/5
call_of_flame			0/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			0/1
elemental_fury			0/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		        0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		        0/5
lava_flows			        0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/5


######### 
#BUFFS### 
#########
armor_debuff_major		2600/2600		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0/610		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	0.0/2.0		//%, bloody frenzy, 2nd talent spec TBA
melee_haste_buff		        20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		306/306		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	0.0/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		        0.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	        10.0/10.0	//%, improved scorch, winter's chill
spell_damage_debuff		0.0/10.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of elements, totem of wrath
spellpower_buff			150/150		//focus magic, improved divine spirit, flametongue totem, demonic pact
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			        0.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	0.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			19/19		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		98/98		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			40/40		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence


#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############

flask_elixir			elixir_of_major_agility

guardian_elixir			elixir_of_draenic_wisdom

potion				haste_potion

food				spice_hot_talbuk

misc_item			drums_of_battle
#607SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ChaguraED
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Questions:

-What is the PPM of Shamanistic Rage and how does it work(haste affects how)?
-How should I model Judgement of Wisdom?
-Is there anything else besided mp5, normal mana regen, Water Shield, Shamanistic Rage, Mana Spring Totem, Replenishment and Judgement of Wisdom, that generate mana?
-Should WF proc Static Shock now? AFAIK, WF doesn't proc Static Shock currently, but after the change maybe?

They've just updated JoW in the latest beta patch, so it might be easier to sim. The old equation was (AP*0.09)+(SP*0.09) per proc. This double dipping is why Enhance shaman are currently crushing on the mana regen. This has been changed to 2% of Total mana. It's a chance on hit (50%?) with an internal cooldown of 4 seconds. For my own purposes on spreadsheets, I've been treating it as 2% total mana/5.

Currently, Manaspring totem stacks, so if you are going to include that option in the sim, could I request the option to toggle an additional shaman's totem?
#608SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mindrila
As I have absolutely no experience with macs, is there any restriction in using Java on Macs?

I could perhaps write a new Java-based GUI which recognizes the system its running on and can replace the Windows GUI. Using Java only for the GUI has no performance impact on the simulator itself. And so we could make a package with GUI + win executables + mac executables. (if it is that easy)
#609SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• giansm
Java works fine on Macs as long as you stick to the "pure java" stuff and don't use platform specific extensions. There's a blurb on Apple's site that says what you can expect Mac users to have: http://developer.apple.com/java. You don't want to use anything outside of that standard distribution, since I believe Apple's distribution is the only one really available for Macs.
#610SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
I think someone else (levva?) was working on a java gui too, might check with him to see what he's got done.
#611SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
spanko
So I finally decided to try out this sim and I'm getting what I think is weird results. Can someone check this over and see if I messed something up or something looks weird? I'm getting an armor pen EP rating of 2.21 and its my highest EP stat and that just seems wrong to me.

EDIT: I'm dumb and I made the same mistake as the guy above and didn't change my EP ranges from default, rerunning the sim, will post results.

EDIT 2:Heres the results with fixed EP ranges, and I think I still managed to mess something up because I got a negative value for haste rating.

simulation_time                 100000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         30
max_lag                         60

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  23
ep_hit_rating                   17
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 17
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   30
ep_dps                          7.5

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          114.4
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         29.4
oh_crit                         29.4
mh_hit                          11.22
oh_hit                          11.22
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              2300
haste                           5.14
armor_penetration               25.12
str                             123
agi                             377
int                             218
spellpower                      690
spell_crit                      21.88
spell_hit                       14.03
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        dragonspine_trophy
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       skyshatter_harness_2

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    lightning_bolt
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3047.86
ap                        1.00      0.56      3070.13        22.27
crit rating               1.90      1.06      3072.24        24.37
hit rating                1.81      1.01      3064.99        17.13
expertise rating          0
haste rating              -2.90     -1.61     3020.45        -27.41
armor penetration rating  1.86      1.03      3063.37        15.50
spellpower                0.53      0.29      3056.66        8.80
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.02
intelligence              1.34
mh dps                    6.92      3.85      3076.76        28.90
oh dps                    3.71      2.06      3063.34        15.47


elapsed simulation time: 1000000.00h
elapsed real time: 1034.39s
simulation speed: 3480312x

Last edited by spanko : 10/20/08 at 6:15 PM.
#612SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ChaguraED
Originally Posted by spanko View Post
So I finally decided to try out this sim and I'm getting what I think is weird results. Can someone check this over and see if I messed something up or something looks weird? I'm getting an armor pen EP rating of 2.21 and its my highest EP stat and that just seems wrong to me.

EDIT: I'm dumb and I made the same mistake as the guy above and didn't change my EP ranges from default, rerunning the sim, will post results.

EDIT 2:Heres the results with fixed EP ranges, and I think I still managed to mess something up because I got a negative value for haste rating.
I would assume based on the passive haste you have now, and that you're using WF/WF, any more haste will push you over a plateu in the WF 3 second CD, which will actually hurt the time until you can proc you next WF, thus reducing DPS. to confirm, could you try throwing on 4% more passive haste, and see if it spits a negative value again?
#613SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mengus
Priority Window

Not sure if there's a version i missed (just been updating with Curse Client) but the latest build I downloaded will not allow me to hide the Priority frame
#614SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
What the heck does that have to do with the simulator? Try the thread in the UI forum.
#615SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3spanko
Originally Posted by ChaguraED View Post
I would assume based on the passive haste you have now, and that you're using WF/WF, any more haste will push you over a plateu in the WF 3 second CD, which will actually hurt the time until you can proc you next WF, thus reducing DPS. to confirm, could you try throwing on 4% more passive haste, and see if it spits a negative value again?
I ran the sim again, everything the same except for 4% more haste rating. I lost the results cause the power went out but haste was 2.43 positive. So haste rating went from -2.9 EP and lowering my dps to being my best stat by far with 2.43 EP. This doesn't make sense to me, maybe it was a fluke? I'll run the sim a few more times.
#616SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
You can see flukes, but haste is a dodgy stat for enhance due to the 3 sec rule. I've had everything between 1.9-something to my current 0.31. If the sim gave you such a large negative EP, chances are that the haste you currently have is hurting your DPS. Try to insert -10 haste in the EP section and see what happens.
#617SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
I think someone else (levva?) was working on a java gui too, might check with him to see what he's got done.
I was working on this and got bogged down in trying to learn to use the RCP extensions that made stuff platform independant. It was eating into play time and more importantly ShockAndAwe time so I've suspended doing any java related stuff. I also realised that being able to export exact values from the ShockAndAwe addon in the format that EnhSim requires is a lot easier and will produce quicker and more accurate results than trying to rely on the Armory which doesn't match my paper doll stats a lot of the time.

The Armory also suffers from the problem of having buffs up when logged out, so the armoury figures are not the "paper doll" figures that EnhSim suggests. All this led me to think that armoury based stats was not the way to go and in game export of stats was.

Originally Posted by Mengus View Post
Not sure if there's a version i missed (just been updating with Curse Client) but the latest build I downloaded will not allow me to hide the Priority frame
Please take this to the ShockAndAwe thread and keep this one focused on the Sim.
#618SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ridan
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
You can see flukes, but haste is a dodgy stat for enhance due to the 3 sec rule. I've had everything between 1.9-something to my current 0.31. If the sim gave you such a large negative EP, chances are that the haste you currently have is hurting your DPS. Try to insert -10 haste in the EP section and see what happens.
This is most probably what's happening. 2.6 weapon speed, with flury, windfury totem, retribution aura and your passive haste gives you an attack speed just over 1.5. Adding 17 haste rating puts you just bellow 1.5 (at 1.48).
#619SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ronboar
When did the "1.5 - 1.4 attackspeed will lower your DPS" idea get back in the discussion? I was convinced that people generally agreed on this not being the case?
#620SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Arkady
Originally Posted by Ronboar View Post
When did the "1.5 - 1.4 attackspeed will lower your DPS" idea get back in the discussion? I was convinced that people generally agreed on this not being the case?
From reading the other thread, it seems to me that back in the day, a certain amount of haste would cost you wf's. This was mitigated by the increase in white damage though. Now that flametongue is a viable enchant however, if you have enough haste to get you into that range, you lose dps doing wf/wf compared to doing wf/ft. So it's not that it lowers your dps, just that it makes a different imbue combo superior.

I think.
#621SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Ronboar View Post
When did the "1.5 - 1.4 attackspeed will lower your DPS" idea get back in the discussion? I was convinced that people generally agreed on this not being the case?
There are actually weird plateaus where things like that can happen, that's why we need the Sim in the first place because Windfury Weapon is so hard to model due to that cooldown. The <1.5 thing reenters the conversation when we add enough haste that there is an additional weapon strike inside of the cooldown that has no chance to proc windfury. It would be exacerbated by using Windfury on just the mainhand since then there would only be one weapon that would be capable of proccing.

Add additional haste after that and you will reach a point where the increased number of white hits will offset the lost windfury proc opportunities but since the EP for haste was set at 17 it was only adding 17 additional haste and then seeing what it did to the overall dps and since that 17 Haste rating was enough to bring it from above 1.5 to under 1.5 it showed a negative value for haste altogether.
#622SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
It was shown a few pages back that it's a lot less than 1/10th of a second of speed though, it's actually an extremely narrow band that causes the issue. Overall I'd say it's not something to worry about.
#623SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ronboar
So... we can still agree that the <1.5 problem is narrowed down to a very tiny hole right after 1.5 attackspeed. And that the risk of actually ingame ending up at that point is minor. But it will still give some extreeme EP-stats when you hit it?
#624SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Raut
I'd say it is something to keep in mind. If we agree that the sim is correct, sim results show that juggling haste can actually lower your DPS(however slightly) so one should tread carefully. Getting a negative EP for haste is a strong indication of this(can't really say proof as we're working with empirical observations and not mathematical proofs).

Edit: To reach 1.5 weapon speed on a 2.6 weapon we need 11.11% haste from gear, is this correct? 2.6/(1.2*1.3*(1+X/100)) = 1.5. Wonder why I'm seeing the drop in haste EP at just 3.11 % haste. Are there any raid buff I'm missing? Included are WF totem and Flurry.

Last edited by Raut : 10/21/08 at 9:08 AM.
#625SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rosboeuf
Another Mac update:

I've been tinkering with an Automator script that will make the Terminal executable less painful for people who are not comfortable with the command line to use until some kind of GUI is ready. I love the idea of a Java GUI by the way!

I'm still getting used to the simulator myself (as I've only been using it since I compiled the Mac version!), but as I understand it we want to be able to do two things:

1. Run the simulator with your selected config text file
2. Run the simulator to calculate EP values

I haven't looked at start_ep_calculation.bat yet, but I'm assuming these are the two functions of the simulator? 1 is calculating your DPS, 2 is calculating the EP values of stats and attributes?

Regarding the config file reader bug, my friend who got the build up and running fixed it. He says:

>>

The config loader didn't check for a < 2 character line when it tried to check if the line started with //, so lines with fewer characters generated an exception. I just added a check.

>>

So that's fixed, and the simulator is working correctly and loading config files (as demonstrated in my results post).
#376SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3PaulchenP
First, sorry for my wonderful school english . I hope, you can although understand my whishes/recommendations..

- In my opinion, it would be better if you could choose at the „buffs“, which class is in the raid and which buff-option is skilled. When I have to calculate manually how much haste etc. I got from all buffs, the feasibility to get a wrong sim is much higher, as you can choose it via checkbox and the system calculates the right stats.

- A very nice feature would be a gui with equipmodeling and armory-import like rawr.

- A possibility to sim/calc the best gems/enchants/glyphs for my inputted equip.

- A possibility to sim/calc the best rotation (priority) for my inputted equip.

- An exportstring for addons like pawn/equivalence points/etc.

- Why is the standard melee hit at boss only 9%? The stylecap (WF/SS/..) is at 9%, but all whitehits need 28% hit so that they can`t miss (like it is for every other dual wild melee..)

That are a few points, which I figured out when I`ve tried the simulator my first time . But let me say, you`ve made a good job. Keep it up!

Greetz,

Crafity
#377SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Buff/Debuff work like this list. Use default if you don't understand how these works. You don't have to calculate anything.
*  Armor Debuff (Major): Acid Spit (exotic Hunter pet), Expose Armor, Sunder Armor
    * Armor Debuff (Minor): Faerie Fire, Sting (Hunter pet), Curse of Recklessness
    * Physical Vulnerability Debuff: Blood Frenzy, (2nd Talent Spec TBA)
    * Melee Haste Buff: Improved Icy Talons, Windfury Totem
    * Melee Critical Strike Chance Buff: Leader of the Pack, Rampage
    * Attack Power Buff (Flat Add): Battle Shout, Blessing of Might
    * Attack Power Buff (Multiplier): Abomination's Might, Trueshot Aura, Unleashed Rage
    * Spell Haste Buff: Wrath of Air Totem
    * Spell Critical Strike Chance Buff: Moonkin Aura, Elemental Oath
    * Spell Critical Strike Chance Debuff: Improved Scorch, Winter's Chill
    * Increased Spell Damage Taken Debuff: Ebon Plaguebringer, Earth and Moon, Curse of the Elements
    * Increased Spell Power Buff: Focus Magic, Improved Divine Spirit, Flametongue Totem, Totem of Wrath
    * Increased Spell Hit Chance Taken Debuff: Improved Faerie Fire, Misery
    * Percentage Haste Increase (All Types): Improved Moonkin Aura, Swift Retribution
    * Percentage Damage Increase: Ferocious Inspiration, Sanctified Retribution
    * Critical Strike Chance Taken Debuff (All types): Heart of the Crusader, Totem of Wrath
    * Stat Multiplier Buff: Blessing of Kings
    * Stat Add Buff: Mark of the Wild
    * Agility and Strength Buff: Strength of Earth Totem, Horn of Winter
    * Intellect Buff: Arcane Intellect, Fel Intelligence
Calculate ep values if you want to know best gems.
#378SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3PaulchenP
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Buff/Debuff work like this list. Use default if you don't understand how these works. You don't have to calculate anything.
Of cause, it works like the list. But that isn`t an argument against my point. It is much easier to click some buffs/debuffs, than to calculate how much effect I get through this and this and this talent..

Calculate ep values if you want to know best gems.
Right, but it would be much better (in my opinion), if the sim calculate all gem-possibilities (meta), than I have to calculate in manually.
#379SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by PaulchenP View Post
First, sorry for my wonderful school english . I hope, you can although understand my whishes/recommendations..

...

Greetz,

Crafity
Some of these will be in the new GUI developed by Levva. Btw Levva, how is the development going?
#380SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Some of these will be in the new GUI developed by Levva. Btw Levva, how is the development going?
It has started but the attractions of sipping spanish wine by the pool in the heat of the spanish sun got the better of me on holiday so its not nearly as far on as I'd hoped.

I'm using the latest version of Eclipse and building something new for me an RCP (Rich Client Platform) app. So there is lots of "architectural" stuff to deal with including integration with SVN access and all that jazz. So the actual basics are in place but I'm getting hampered by the structural stuff.

I suspect what I need to do is take some time out to get all the background stuff sorted so I can actually get on with some coding. My main issue in setting this up is that I develop on 3 different machines. My home PC, my Laptop, and occasionally when I'm otherwise at a loose end - my work PC. I'm the IT Manager so I can get away with it

Getting the structural stuff right so I can port the code between development machines is something that needs to be right before I can get the actual GUI working. That said I've done a fair bit of reading on armory xml parsing etc. Thats because reading poolside with a glass of wine is easier than coding!!
#381SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Tukez check out the other thread to see the discussion so far. What is the reasoning behind the current EP step values in the default config for the sim? Are they meant to be that high and how can they be accurate at that high of a level.

Previous Sim author used EP step values of 40-80 while you are stepping 300 for AP and Spellpower and 150 for hit which doesn't even make any sense to me from an itemization value standpoint since 300 Spellpower is an equivalent EP step to 500 Attackpower not to 300 AP.

I think it's skewing the EP values Pitbuller is pulling out of the Sim, especially for Spellpower, and is making the results incredibly unreliable for things like hit rating since the single EP step is already putting the value way over the hit cap.

Wouldn't it be better to use a smaller step rating and to scale that step based on the itenmization values for those stats?

I set my numbers based on 2x gem values for the stats, would that work or would it be incorrect in some way?
#382SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
It would be *amazingly* nice if the Sim had an idea of whether you were at hit or expertise cap as well, and accounted for it in the EP step size (not stepping over the caps) and in the results (letting the user know that these ratings are capped and no longer useful).
#383SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Tukez check out the other thread to see the discussion so far. What is the reasoning behind the current EP step values in the default config for the sim? Are they meant to be that high and how can they be accurate at that high of a level.

Previous Sim author used EP step values of 40-80 while you are stepping 300 for AP and Spellpower and 150 for hit which doesn't even make any sense to me from an itemization value standpoint since 300 Spellpower is an equivalent EP step to 500 Attackpower not to 300 AP.

I think it's skewing the EP values Pitbuller is pulling out of the Sim, especially for Spellpower, and is making the results incredibly unreliable for things like hit rating since the single EP step is already putting the value way over the hit cap.

Wouldn't it be better to use a smaller step rating and to scale that step based on the itenmization values for those stats?

I set my numbers based on 2x gem values for the stats, would that work or would it be incorrect in some way?
I would use EP ranges, which one item upgrade gives in stat. For example, I have a chest with 100ap and average upgrade for that piece would give me 50ap more, then I would use 50 for EP range. If you know how EP values/ranges work and are calculated, it makes some kind of sense.

The high EP ranges in the default config are legacy of bad config, I guess. People reported high variance with EP values(with wow 2.4 version sim) on different simulation runs, so I upped the EP ranges to get reasonable results. If the variance has gone down since, as it seems so, you can safely lower the EP ranges as you see fit. In theory, the more you raise the simulation runtime, the more accurate results you get and the more you can lower the EP ranges.

I'll lower the default EP ranges for next version.
#384SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
It would be *amazingly* nice if the Sim had an idea of whether you were at hit or expertise cap as well, and accounted for it in the EP step size (not stepping over the caps) and in the results (letting the user know that these ratings are capped and no longer useful).
Actually the GUI warns about that...it works for level 70 only though. I know you can't use the GUI, so can you explain what kind of system you specificly would like?
#385SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I would use EP ranges, which one item upgrade gives in stat. For example, I have a chest with 100ap and average upgrade for that piece would give me 50ap more, then I would use 50 for EP range. If you know how EP values/ranges work and are calculated, it makes some kind of sense.

The high EP ranges in the default config are legacy of bad config, I guess. People reported high variance with EP values(with wow 2.4 version sim) on different simulation runs, so I upped the EP ranges to get reasonable results. If the variance has gone down since, as it seems so, you can safely lower the EP ranges as you see fit. In theory, the more you raise the simulation runtime, the more accurate results you get and the more you can lower the EP ranges.

I'll lower the default EP ranges for next version.
So then using the settings that I was recommending would work better then?

Since I was basing them off what adding 2 gems worth of stats would do to the pieces.

Guess that also means we should be running different EP values for level 70 gear and for level 80 since the stat value increase between pieces is significantly more at level 80.

If these look ok to you feel free to use them.

Level 70

ep_ap 40
ep_crit_rating 20
ep_hit_rating 20
ep_expertise 20
ep_haste_rating 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 20
ep_spellpower 24

Level 80

ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 32
ep_hit_rating 32
ep_expertise 32
ep_haste_rating 32
ep_armor_penetration_rating 32
ep_spellpower 38


With those being based on 2x gem values for the gems available at 70 and then the gems that will be available at 80.
#386SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3PaulchenP
Hmm, I`ve sim today my dps with solo buffs and a priority list, that is given with level 70 (MW_LB).

The sim shows me 1458 dps.. I`ve made seven fights with the dummies in OG and got all the time a dps between 1432 and 1453.. So, I think, the sim is running well.

All values were near the sim values.
#387SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by PaulchenP View Post
Hmm, I`ve sim today my dps with solo buffs and a priority list, that is given with level 70 (MW_LB).

The sim shows me 1458 dps.. I`ve made seven fights with the dummies in OG and got all the time a dps between 1432 and 1453.. So, I think, the sim is running well.

All values were near the sim values.
Great to hear . Better even if you happened to take a combatlog or some end stat results and the config you used to simulate. It would be nice to see does that combatlog look something like the simulator is spitting out.
#388SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
It would be *amazingly* nice if the Sim had an idea of whether you were at hit or expertise cap as well, and accounted for it in the EP step size (not stepping over the caps) and in the results (letting the user know that these ratings are capped and no longer useful).
One nice little trick is that you can use negative ep value ranges too. If you are some sort of cap of something then just turn that ep range to negative. Result is: How good stat is before cap and that is maybe usefull when changing gear and drop below that cap.

Rounced: AP and spell power scale linearly. Ep ranges aren't reason why you get inconsistent numbers(not me, check other thread). You can easily check ep values by hand:
Run sim. Write dps down.
Set ap x higher(also remember set spellpower 0.3x higher too). Write dps down.
dps/ap = (2nd run - 1st run) / x
Reset config to original.
Set some stat value higher by value of z. Write dps down.
Value of that stat = [(3rd run - 1st run) / z] / (dps/ap)
This is what sim do when calculating ep values.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 09/30/08 at 7:11 AM.
#389SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
PaulchenP
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         4
min_lag                         350
max_lag                         400

ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   150
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_penetration_rating     600
ep_spellpower                   300

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          97.5
oh_dps                          97.5
mh_crit                         24.54
oh_crit                         24.54
mh_hit                          9.61
oh_hit                          9.61
mh_expertise_rating             59
oh_expertise_rating             59
ap                              1785
haste                           1.9
armor_penetration               168
str                             224
agi                             346
int                             273
spellpower                      593
spell_crit                      18.59
spell_hit                       4.52
base_mana                       2958

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        bloodlust_brooch
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    -
glyph_major2                    -
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              mw_lb
rotation_priority2              fs
rotation_priority3              ss
rotation_priority4              ll

miss                            28.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           2/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              0/2600
armor_debuff_minor              0/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20/20
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 83/83
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  0/40

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -



Screenshot from recount

The screen shows 1451,9 DPS after 306.4 sec, but the fightduration was 300,x sec. So, if you calc 444857/300, you got a dps realy near the sim one.
Only the values aren`t as near together, as today afternoon, but I`m not sure, if I had a piority list like in the list above..



Edit: But there are wrong values, if I choose FT/FT or WF/FT.. WF/FT is simed with ~1400 DPS, but it got ~1564 DPS.. Nice was, at the beginning (with mana) I hold 1800+ DPS. In my opinion, WF/FT is atm the best imbue-mix.

recount screenshot from WF/FT


For you as translation:
Nahkampf = Melee
Blitzschlag = LB
Angriff des Windzorns = WF
Angriff der Flammenzunge = FT
Sturmschlag = Stormstrike
Flammenschock = Flameshock
Lavapeitsche = LL
Flammenschock (DoT) = Flameshock (DoT)
-----------------
Gestreift = hmm, normally glancing blow, but it must be Crit..
Treffer = hit
Miss = miss..
Dodge = dodge..

Last edited by PaulchenP : 09/29/08 at 8:25 PM.
#390SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
EP ranges should follow the item budget, not numbers pulled out of a hat. Using gem values isn't that stupid, but gems don't follow the item budget as strictly as some of us had hoped.

Budget factors:

Any rating: 1
AP : 0.5
A stat : 1 - (Only Ag? Obviously not Str since it will result in only x1.1 AP, but Int?)
Spell power: 0.86 (6/7)

So with a base value of, say, 50, you get 100 AP, 50 ag, 50 of any rating, 58 spell power.

Source: Item values - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
#391SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim1.1.7

1.1.7
-Trinkets added: Meteorite Whetstone, Embrace of the Spider, Dying Curse, Illustration of the Dragon Soul, Sundial of the Exiled, Forge Ember, Incisor Fragment, Mark of the War Prisoner, Sphere of the Red Dragon's Blood and Tome of Arcane Phenomena.
-Grim Troll's name fixed to Grim Toll. Also changed the ppm to static proc chance of 15% and cd of 45s.
-Dual Wield Specialization changed to increase hit by 1/2/3%. Changed to affect spell hit also.
-Flurry attack speed increase lowered to 5/10/15/20/25%.
-Stormstrike damage debuff now affects nature spells only.
-Maelstrom Weapon proc chance reduced to 3/6/9/12/15% and procs form all melee. Duration increased to 30s.
-Lowered default EP ranges.

enhsim - Google Code


As you see, I assumed that DW spec affects spells too.

GUI warnings for hit and expertise caps works for level 80 too. It searches the enhsim file text box to see are you using level 70 or 80 exe.
#392SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vaeys
According to wowhead, dual-wield spec still doesn't affect spell hit, just melee hit.
#393SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by PaulchenP View Post
MW was updated today on the ptr.

MW.
Its mentioned in the post directly above yours.
#394SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Enhsim 1.1.8

1.1.8
-Elemental Fury does not affect Lava Lash crits anymore.
-DW spec bonus changed back to affect only melee.

enhsim - Google Code
#395SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
I'm designing to add support for casting with partial MW stacks. I need to know does the cast time change, if haste changes during casting?
#396SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hothgor
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I'm designing to add support for casting with partial MW stacks. I need to know does the cast time change, if haste changes during casting?
No it will not. The spell casting time will stay constant once you cast the spells, even if your haste changes.
#397SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
So I came up with this system for generic rotations:

System consists of fixed rotation slots and those slots are priority lists. The system would use the first slot(priority list) to use the first skill, then move to the next slot and use that list until a skill is available to cast. Move to next slot and so on. After last slot it would move back to the first one.

You could also define do you skip the slot and move to next one, if you can't cast any of the skills in that slot.

Example rotation:

SS
ES
MW_CL,MW_LB(skip)
FS

This means start with SS, then ES. Check if MW is ready and CL not on cd: cast CL. Otherwise check if MW is ready: cast LB. If either cannot be done, move to FS. After FS, start again with SS.

So to clarify, this rotation consists of 4 priority lists. Only the 3rd one have more than one item in it.

What do you think, is this good?. Can you do any kind of rotation with this sytem? Can you make up a better one?

Btw, spell casting with duration is almost done. In next version you are able to specify the minimum amount of MW charges to cast. Instead of defining, for example MW_LB, you have to define MW_LB_5 or MW_LB_3.
#398SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Unless I'm misreading this, this priority system would skip on SS after the first cycle for much longer then it's actual cooldown.

Forgetting MW it leads to this:

0 SS
1.5 ES
7.5 FS
9 SS
13.5 ES
19.5 FS
21 SS

Which gives a 12 second gap while there was a perfect slot for SS available at 17 seconds. A better priority system would start at the top again after a succesful step was made, and maybe even check the remaining cooldown on a skill so that you wait say 0.5 seconds instead of firing up a flame shock and using a SS instead.

If it already does this then forget what I wrote.
#399SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Stopokingme View Post
Unless I'm misreading this, this priority system would skip on SS after the first cycle for much longer then it's actual cooldown.

Forgetting MW it leads to this:

0 SS
1.5 ES
7.5 FS
9 SS
13.5 ES
19.5 FS
21 SS

Which gives a 12 second gap while there was a perfect slot for SS available at 17 seconds. A better priority system would start at the top again after a succesful step was made, and maybe even check the remaining cooldown on a skill so that you wait say 0.5 seconds instead of firing up a flame shock and using a SS instead.

If it already does this then forget what I wrote.
Well you kind of missed the point. The point was to explain the system to make the rotations, not to show an efficient rotation. You are able to make the rotation you explained with that generic rotation system.
#400SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
So I came up with this system for generic rotations:

System consists of fixed rotation slots and those slots are priority lists. The system would use the first slot(priority list) to use the first skill, then move to the next slot and use that list until a skill is available to cast. Move to next slot and so on. After last slot it would move back to the first one.

You could also define do you skip the slot and move to next one, if you can't cast any of the skills in that slot.

Example rotation:

SS
ES
MW_CL,MW_LB(skip)
FS

This means start with SS, then ES. Check if MW is ready and CL not on cd: cast CL. Otherwise check if MW is ready: cast LB. If either cannot be done, move to FS. After FS, start again with SS.

So to clarify, this rotation consists of 4 priority lists. Only the 3rd one have more than one item in it.

What do you think, is this good?. Can you do any kind of rotation with this sytem? Can you make up a better one?

Btw, spell casting with duration is almost done. In next version you are able to specify the minimum amount of MW charges to cast. Instead of defining, for example MW_LB, you have to define MW_LB_5 or MW_LB_3.
So its a case of every pass of the priority :

use the first skill if available, if not move onto slot 2 use if available, if not move onto slot 3 etc?

ie: every pass it starts at the top, or every pass it starts from where it left off thus potentially missing an earlier higher priority?

BTW given the request for possibilities for MW at less than 5 stacks to see the effects. Can I suggest you rename the above to be MW5_CL & MW5_LB. This then allows MW4_CL etc.
#401SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
So its a case of every pass of the priority :

use the first skill if available, if not move onto slot 2 use if available, if not move onto slot 3 etc?

ie: every pass it starts at the top, or every pass it starts from where it left off thus potentially missing an earlier higher priority?

BTW given the request for possibilities for MW at less than 5 stacks to see the effects. Can I suggest you rename the above to be MW5_CL & MW5_LB. This then allows MW4_CL etc.
I don't quite get what you mean so I'll give some more examples. It is fixed and priority rotation combined. With this new system, the old priority list from default config.txt would be written like this:
MW_LB,SS,FS,ES,LL,LS
Just one line.

Plain fixed rotation with SS, FS and ES would be written like this:
SS
FS
ES
SS
ES
This is not an efficient rotation, just an example. This means that those skills will be cast in order from top to bottom and starting again from top.

Then you can mix fixed and priority rotations together:
SS
MW_LB,ES
FS
MW_CL,MW_LB (skip)
LL
Again, just example. Here is what would probably happen:

0.0s cast SS.
1.5s MW isn't most probably ready yet, so lets check next skill(ES). ES is ready -> cast ES.
7.5s cast FS
9.0s if MW is ready and CL cd is not on, cast CL. Else if MW is ready, cast LB. Else skip this priority list and move to the next one. Let's say MW wasn't ready yet.
9.0s cast LL
10.5s cast SS

And so on.

Hopefully this cleared it up.

About the naming thing, I think your suggestion is good, MW5_LB or whatever makes more sense.
#402SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
You might include logic that allows for a delay though. ie, SS is much more important that LL is. So LL maybe off CD, but if SS is coming off CD in say... 1 second or less, I'd rather SS and use LL after. Same thing for Shocks, they're going to do more damage over time than LL will so they're more important to use if they're coming off CD but would conflict with LL.
#403SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Tukez, please update the sim with Maelstrom Weapon set to 12.4PPM.


Edited - reduced the PPM to 12.4, another 5 minute run was posted so it should be averaged in too

Last edited by Rouncer : 10/04/08 at 1:17 AM.
#404SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
EnhSim 1.2.1

1.2.1
-Maelstrom Weapon is now 12.4 PPM. Removed Lava Burst as an option.
-Flurry changed back to 10/15/20/25/30%.
-Dual Wield Specialization changed back to 2/4/6%.
-You can now specify the minimum amount of charges to use MW. You can also cast spells without MW charges at all, check the config.txt for details.

enhsim - Google Code


Sorry it took so long, I basically had this version ready since yesterday, but it took a while to track down one nasty bug. I hope there aren't any other bugs.

As you see, you can cast spells now without MW, so you can play elemental shaman and spam LB if you feel like it .


EDIT: I forgot to write the instructions for spell casting to config.txt. I'll write it here instead.

Basically the Maelstrom Weapons commands are:
MWx_LB
MWx_CL
Where x is number 1-5. It means what is the minimum number of MW charges to start casting.

You can cast full duration spells with these commands: LB, CL, LVB. They use MW charges if possible(LB is same as MW0_LB).

MW casting with charges pauses the swing timer and full duration casting resets it.


EDIT 2: Realized that different MW ranks do all the same thing. I guess ppm should increase as you gain ranks up to 12.4? I'll change this to the next version.

Last edited by tukez : 10/04/08 at 9:29 AM.
#405SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fauxpas
So, running the Sim on all default settings, AP seems to be the best stat (except for hit and expertise obviously)... interesting.
#701SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Because it is testing each condition for 1000 hours and since there are 11 conditions that means it takes 11000 hours to do all of them.

Look for what you might be doing wrong first, then look for what might be wrong with the sim.

Xoya, I tested it, I'm sure many of us have tested it, it's one of the reasons the original EP values were set as high as they were. Sims are not very precise for that type of calculation except when you run very large EP values which are not very helpful or when you run the sim for thousands and thousands and thousands of hours to attempt to standardize the results.
I was just going to run a simple DPS check. Screw the EP values. They're based on DPS increases anyway, so if the DPS doesn't increase significantly by going from 28% melee hit & 17% spell hit to 1% higher on each, then we know that it's working just fine.

Edit to add: if you've tested this very thing, then that's all well and good, but it can't do any harm for me to test it to see for myself!
#702SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zaurok
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Because it is testing each condition for 1000 hours and since there are 11 conditions that means it takes 11000 hours to do all of them.

Look for what you might be doing wrong first, then look for what might be wrong with the sim.

Xoya, I tested it, I'm sure many of us have tested it, it's one of the reasons the original EP values were set as high as they were. Sims are not very precise for that type of calculation except when you run very large EP values which are not very helpful or when you run the sim for thousands and thousands and thousands of hours to attempt to standardize the results.
Yeah, the values varies a lot even at 5000 hours. It's annoying because crit goes above a value of 2 then back down so I can't say "AP is better than crit" or vice versa atm. I'll have to run something like 200000 hours (or less if PC hangs) to get better results to know which gem is the best per slot.

Again, I appologies. Spell hit beyond the cap doesn't seem to affect EP values. I was a victim of good/bad luck last night. sigh
#703SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
Some thoughts I've been having about the sim lately...

We currently run, for a simple dps test, 10000 hours with each fight length being 5 hours. I thought to myself, 'That's not very realistic', so I tried running the sim with fight lengths of 1 hour, .5 hours, .25 hours, .13 hours (8 minutes), and .05 hours (3 minutes). I also tried running a sim with a fight length of 10000 hours, which was slightly less inflated than the 5 hour fight length sims, but still inconsistent. Here were my results:
10000 / 10000

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1110.71   38.35%    82.37
windfury            426.48    14.73%    6.36
flametongue         238.47    8.23%     53.37
stormstrike         214.25    7.4%      6.91      23.18     20.55
lava lash           118.03    4.08%     8.58      14.40     12.76
earth shock         300.44    10.37%    8.89      35.58     31.53
lightning bolt      393.05    13.57%    8.89      39.67     35.16
lightning shield    94.50     3.26%     0.94      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 2895.91
MPS                 112.83
MP2min              13539.29

10000 / 5
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1151.73   38.88%    85.37
windfury            433.32    14.63%    6.46
flametongue         244.61    8.26%     54.74
stormstrike         214.54    7.24%     6.91      23.21     20.40%
lava lash           117.98    3.98%     8.57      14.38     12.64%
earth shock         300.20    10.13%    8.88      35.54     31.24%
lightning bolt      402.70    13.6%     9.11      40.65     35.73%
lightning shield    96.95     3.27%     0.96      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 2962.03
MPS                 113.78
MP2min              13653.56

10000 / 1
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1405.51   41.64%    103.92
windfury            478.66    14.18%    7.12
flametongue         282.86    8.38%     63.28
stormstrike         216.49    6.41%     6.96      23.36     19.50%
lava lash           117.80    3.49%     8.54      14.33     11.96%
earth shock         298.65    8.85%     8.83      35.36     29.51%
lightning bolt      463.31    13.73%    10.48     46.76     39.03%
lightning shield    111.80    3.31%     1.10      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 3375.07
MPS                 119.81
MP2min              14377.58

10000 / .99
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1408.95   41.68%    104.16
windfury            479.25    14.18%    7.13
flametongue         283.38    8.38%     63.39
stormstrike         216.52    6.4%      6.96      23.37     19.49%
lava lash           117.78    3.48%     8.54      14.33     11.95%
earth shock         298.65    8.83%     8.83      35.35     29.49%
lightning bolt      464.11    13.73%    10.49     46.83     39.07%
lightning shield    112.00    3.31%     1.10      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 3380.62
MPS                 119.88
MP2min              14386.07

10000 / .5
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1626.29   43.57%    120.02
windfury            517.91    13.88%    7.69
flametongue         315.81    8.46%     70.63
stormstrike         217.95    5.84%     7.00      23.48     18.80%
lava lash           117.20    3.14%     8.48      14.23     11.39%
earth shock         297.37    7.97%     8.79      35.20     28.18%
lightning bolt      515.41    13.81%    11.65     52.01     41.63%
lightning shield    124.58    3.34%     1.22      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 3732.52
MPS                 124.92
MP2min              14990.45

10000 / .25
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1785.95   44.89%    131.68
windfury            538.93    13.55%    7.99
flametongue         339.38    8.53%     75.90
stormstrike         218.49    5.49%     7.01      23.51     18.35%
lava lash           115.91    2.91%     8.38      14.06     10.97%
earth shock         295.32    7.42%     8.73      34.95     27.27%
lightning bolt      551.04    13.85%    12.46     55.61     43.40%
lightning shield    133.76    3.36%     1.31      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 3978.78
MPS                 128.14
MP2min              15376.50

10000 / .13
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               2081.82   46.76%    153.17
windfury            597.67    13.42%    8.85
flametongue         382.59    8.59%     85.54
stormstrike         219.94    4.94%     7.04      23.64     17.65%
lava lash           112.99    2.54%     8.15      13.68     10.22%
earth shock         290.44    6.52%     8.59      34.37     25.67%
lightning bolt      616.21    13.84%    13.94     62.22     46.46%
lightning shield    150.49    3.38%     1.46      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4452.17
MPS                 133.91
MP2min              16069.20

10000 / .05
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               3040.30   51.68%    222.91
windfury            711.26    12.09%    10.50
flametongue         523.81    8.9%      117.08
stormstrike         222.38    3.78%     7.10      23.83     15.85%
lava lash           106.16    1.8%      7.64      12.82     8.53%
earth shock         275.79    4.69%     8.16      32.66     21.73%
lightning bolt      799.96    13.6%     18.16     81.03     53.90%
lightning shield    203.10    3.45%     1.92      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 5882.77
MPS                 150.35
MP2min              18041.49
Now for the question.. is the sim not designed to properly handle shorter, more realistic fight lengths? If that is the case, would tukez be able to modify the sim so that it does? Or is my interest in this matter simply pointless?

As a reference, by the way, here is my config:
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   .05
report_count                    80
threads                         4
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    20
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7

mh_speed                        2.80
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          100.2
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         27.84
oh_crit                         27.84
mh_hit                          10.65
oh_hit                          10.65
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              2142
haste                           6.60
armor_penetration               11.21
str                             119
agi                             282
int                             269
spellpower                      642
spell_crit                      23.34
spell_hit                       13.32
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        shard_of_contempt
trinket2                        dragonspine_trophy

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       skyshatter_harness_2

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    2

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  0/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    100.0/100.0
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       drums_of_battle
#704SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Xoya View Post
Some thoughts I've been having about the sim lately...

We currently run, for a simple dps test, 10000 hours with each fight length being 5 hours. I thought to myself, 'That's not very realistic', so I tried running the sim with fight lengths of 1 hour, .5 hours, .25 hours, .13 hours (8 minutes), and .05 hours (3 minutes). I also tried running a sim with a fight length of 10000 hours, which was slightly less inflated than the 5 hour fight length sims, but still inconsistent. Here were my results:
Combat length is in minutes. It reads in the config.txt, but I guess I should really put the units in the GUI too.
#705SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Xoya
Err... huh. Well then! I just assumed that because the sim length was in hours that the fight length would be in hours, too. Woops. At least now I know how much damage I'd be doing if I had every single buff up, all procs, etc. for a 3 second fight.

Edit: while I am testing things, then, tukez: I don't think the sim properly accounts for the increased WF proc chance when dual-imbuing windfury on weapons. I realize this has been brought up before, and I apologize if my understanding of this is incorrect, but I thought it was made quite clear in the past that double-imbued windfury means that each hands's hits, individually, have a 36% chance to proc windfury.

Now, in the sim, I get the following results when dual-imbuing WF:

MH Windfury:
procs/hits 14.53%
procs/swings 13.27%

OH Windfury:
procs/hits 12.85%
procs/swings 11.88%


I get the following results when using WF/nothing:
MH Windfury:
procs/hits 14.98%
procs/swings 13.69%


I get the following results when using WF/FT:
MH Windfury:
procs/hits 14.99%
procs/swings 13.69%


Clearly something changes in the sim's code when you switch from dual-imbue to single-imbue.. I'm just not sure what, so I'm not sure which change to the code, if any, would be necessary.

Now, if with 3.0 they have removed the increased proc chance when dual-imbuing WF, please let me know!

Last edited by Xoya : 10/24/08 at 2:31 AM.
#706SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Xoya View Post
I don't think the sim properly accounts for the increased WF proc chance when dual-imbuing windfury on weapons. I realize this has been brought up before, and I apologize if my understanding of this is incorrect, but I thought it was made quite clear in the past that double-imbued windfury means that each hands's hits, individually, have a 36% chance to proc windfury.

Now, in the sim, I get the following results when dual-imbuing WF:



Clearly something changes in the sim's code when you switch from dual-imbue to single-imbue.. I'm just not sure what, so I'm not sure which change to the code, if any, would be necessary.

Now, if with 3.0 they have removed the increased proc chance when dual-imbuing WF, please let me know!
The thing you aren't accounting for is the 3 second cooldown. Looking at this weeks Brutallus I had a melee strike every 0.66 seconds. Which means 4.5 strikes are automatically ineligible during each cooldown period. That is why the percentage seems low because there are many strikes where windfury is simply ineligible to proc in the first place.
#707SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
I've updated ShockAndAwe v3.30beta3 to export data for EnhSim can people try it and report back any problems in the ShockAndAwe thread please. Even just confirmation that it exports what you expect would be nice.

Last edited by Levva : 10/24/08 at 6:53 AM.
#708SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Teeza
In this latest version of the sim, I have Syphon/Badge with WF/FT outperforming both Syphon/Badge with WF/WF and Badge/Badge with WF/WF.

And the 2.5 Speed badge weapon outperforming its faster counterpart when both have FT.

Can anyone confirm similar results?
#709SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ChaguraED
Originally Posted by Teeza View Post
In this latest version of the sim, I have Syphon/Badge with WF/FT outperforming both Syphon/Badge with WF/WF and Badge/Badge with WF/WF.

And the 2.5 Speed badge weapon outperforming its faster counterpart when both have FT.

Can anyone confirm similar results?
Right now no one is really able to confirm too much, but I do have WF/FT being my best DPS.

As well, it's expected that Slow/Slow is still ideal, but some quirky things are letting some folks do better with a fast OH
#710SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Teeza View Post
In this latest version of the sim, I have Syphon/Badge with WF/FT outperforming both Syphon/Badge with WF/WF and Badge/Badge with WF/WF.

And the 2.5 Speed badge weapon outperforming its faster counterpart when both have FT.

Can anyone confirm similar results?

That would make sense. WF/WF is not a huge advantage anymore over WF/FT and the badge weapons are 2.5s so they are a bit fast anyway.

Sorry if this will seem directed at you Teeza (it's not) but people really need to stop questioning the Sim for results like this, mechanics have changed dramatically and it will take some time to get used to seeing how things work now. The sim works incredibly well and Tukez has done a remarkable job with it.

This thread should really stop being about people's results and more about ways to either make the Sim better (like all the stuff about getting it to compile on a Mac) or errors in the Sims output or changes in the basic game mechanics that Tukez would need to incorporate into the Sim.

As for reporting errors, to prevent pages of crap again, take a moment to format your issue properly.

1. What were you trying to test?

2. What was the conditional you changed between the samples?

3. Were the dps results consistent between the samples?

4. Is your error greater then 1% from expected (This is in regards to EP calculations and is referring to the DPS figures not the EP figures)?

5. Did you run the Sim for long enough to remove inconsistencies (10,000 hours should be enough to limit them)?

6. If you are a Draenai did you add the 1% spell and melee hit to your stats (raid buffs=raid buffs) prior to running the Sim?

7. Does it really matter?

The last question is probably the most important.

The sim is never going to give perfect results. It relies on RNG to determine it's output so there will always be some inconsistencies. That's fine and doesn't in any way hinder it's practical applications so just because your Hit EP shifted from 1.78 to 1.94 between 2 samples doesn't mean that the Sim is broken in any way. Just increase the time and/or the EP values until you get to a level of consistency that you are happy with.
#711SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Zaurok
One thing I noticed for hit rating (it might be affecting other stats)

On the character sheet, when I eat the +20 hit food, I end up with 13% spell hit. (14% with racial)
I have the +3% hit from debuffs to bring it up to 17%(the cap)

Now the catch is...
I input 14% spell hit in the Sim but leave the food section blank (since I have the effect calculated already)
The EP Range for hit rating is 40
When I calculate, the sim says that the spell hit is over the cap (40 hit rating).
This is fine. It's exactly what I should get

I input the spell hit pre-food of 12.41% in the sim but add the spicy hot talbuk in the food section.
I get 19.8739 hit rating over the cap this time.


I assume this is because the number in % on the character sheet is rounded. Could it be possible to input the hit rating (instead of hit %) to get more precise results?

It wouldn't affect the data by much albeit being more precise.
The same could be said for crit rating, haste, armor penetration and expertise (did I miss any?)
Being that ratings needed for 1% changes as you level up, we'd need to either be able to input the level of the character or having one sim for level 70 and one for level 80.

On a side note, oh/mh expertise rating is a bit miss leading as my rating is 54 but gives me 13 expertise. Not sure how you could name it to make it more clear. It's not a rating, nor is it a value. Maybe just call it expertise?


What do you guys think?


EDIT: Changed the values to 14 and 12.41 (1% from draenei) and lowered debuff to +3% hit. Added more text to avoid confusion

EDIT2: Is it already planned for a future release?

Last edited by Zaurok : 10/24/08 at 12:32 PM.
#712SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Teeza
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
That would make sense. WF/WF is not a huge advantage anymore over WF/FT and the badge weapons are 2.5s so they are a bit fast anyway.

Sorry if this will seem directed at you Teeza (it's not) but people really need to stop questioning the Sim for results like this, mechanics have changed dramatically and it will take some time to get used to seeing how things work now. The sim works incredibly well and Tukez has done a remarkable job with it.

This thread should really stop being about people's results and more about ways to either make the Sim better (like all the stuff about getting it to compile on a Mac) or errors in the Sims output or changes in the basic game mechanics that Tukez would need to incorporate into the Sim.

As for reporting errors, to prevent pages of crap again, take a moment to format your issue properly.

1. What were you trying to test?

2. What was the conditional you changed between the samples?

3. Were the dps results consistent between the samples?

4. Is your error greater then 1% from expected (This is in regards to EP calculations and is referring to the DPS figures not the EP figures)?

5. Did you run the Sim for long enough to remove inconsistencies (10,000 hours should be enough to limit them)?

6. If you are a Draenai did you add the 1% spell and melee hit to your stats (raid buffs=raid buffs) prior to running the Sim?

7. Does it really matter?

The last question is probably the most important.

The sim is never going to give perfect results. It relies on RNG to determine it's output so there will always be some inconsistencies. That's fine and doesn't in any way hinder it's practical applications so just because your Hit EP shifted from 1.78 to 1.94 between 2 samples doesn't mean that the Sim is broken in any way. Just increase the time and/or the EP values until you get to a level of consistency that you are happy with.

Yeh, I agree completely. That is what this thread should be for, and I also agree that the Sim is fantastic. I have a very stringent theoretical statistical background, and the results it gives and the rate of convergence can do nothing but inspire alot of confidence.

That being said I just got a result that I didnt expect and just wanted someone to validate it so as to not just have me think that I am doing something stupid..
#713SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
The thing you aren't accounting for is the 3 second cooldown. Looking at this weeks Brutallus I had a melee strike every 0.66 seconds. Which means 4.5 strikes are automatically ineligible during each cooldown period. That is why the percentage seems low because there are many strikes where windfury is simply ineligible to proc in the first place.
Well, my question wasn't about the % listed, but rather, about the fact that the % listed doesn't really change from WF-WF to WF-FT to WF-nothing. Hence my curiosity! It would be nice to have a listing of "WF procs / eligible hits" and "WF procs / eligible swings" or somesuch to get an accurate measurement of how it's actually doing things. Or tukez can just tell us! I have no reason to assume he's doing it wrong, just trying to help out in case it is wrong.
#714SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Xoya View Post
Well, my question wasn't about the % listed, but rather, about the fact that the % listed doesn't really change from WF-WF to WF-FT to WF-nothing. Hence my curiosity! It would be nice to have a listing of "WF procs / eligible hits" and "WF procs / eligible swings" or somesuch to get an accurate measurement of how it's actually doing things. Or tukez can just tell us! I have no reason to assume he's doing it wrong, just trying to help out in case it is wrong.
WF proc chance in the sim is 20% or 36% with dual WF.

Btw, mana simulations are almost ready. I need to finish couple of things and do some quick testing first.
#715SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Afabar
Could it be possible to add in the "EP module" a dps calculation with other imbue like WF/FT, FT/FT ?
#716SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
You can just do that yourself manually, you know.
#717SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Afabar
Originally Posted by Xoya View Post
You can just do that yourself manually, you know.
In the same way that you can add on your character description additional AP or Hit how much it increase your DPS.

I'm really think that it could be something useful.

EP module is for me a tool to see how I could tune/improve my DPS. It could make sense to add an imbue value.
#718SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shegokigo
Hoping this isn't answered already (checked a few pages back but couldn't find anything)

The SIM says if I get "MH and OH expertise are over the cap. EP expertise will be skipped"

So I try lowering the EP range of Expertise to 1 and it still says "over". The tooltip says I can imput a negative value and still get a "EP" but I'm not getting anything.

Any advice?
#719SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Mindrila
Originally Posted by Zaurok View Post
...
Being that ratings needed for 1% changes as you level up, we'd need to either be able to input the level of the character or having one sim for level 70 and one for level 80.
...
Well at least in my folder there is a EnhSim.exe and a EnhSim_lvl80.exe so I believe, although I've not tested it, that one is for level 70 an one is for level 80.

Last edited by Mindrila : 10/24/08 at 5:43 PM. Reason: forgot ,
#720SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Shegokigo
simulation_time                 15000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    20
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5

mh_speed                        2.50
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          103.0
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         26.30
oh_crit                         26.30
mh_hit                          11.73
oh_hit                          11.73
mh_expertise_rating             125
oh_expertise_rating             125
ap                              2212
haste                           4.19
armor_penetration               7.56
str                             137
agi                             398
int                             189
spellpower                      663
spell_crit                      17.99
spell_hit                       14.66
base_mana                       5513

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        dragonspine_trophy
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    lightning_shield
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            1/2
static_shock                    2/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              0/2600
armor_debuff_minor              0/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          381/381
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  0/40

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          -
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       -
Thought this might help my case, if anyone sees a problem.

Using this set-up doesn't give me a value for my expertise, it just skips it all together, which makes trying to imput values in Loot Rank for WoW not very helpful.

Last edited by Shegokigo : 10/24/08 at 5:54 PM.
#721SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ganrak
Originally Posted by Shegokigo View Post
mh_expertise_rating             125
oh_expertise_rating             125
Thought this might help my case, if anyone sees a problem.

Using this set-up doesn't give me a value for my expertise, it just skips it all together, which makes trying to imput values in Loot Rank for WoW not very helpful.
With that in your expertise its still capped. Presuming this is for level 70 that is. The cap for expertise is around 104 if i remember correctly, so you'd need to input something lower to get an EP value for expertise.
#722SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ChaguraED
Originally Posted by ganrak View Post
With that in your expertise its still capped. Presuming this is for level 70 that is. The cap for expertise is around 104 if i remember correctly, so you'd need to input something lower to get an EP value for expertise.
And currently the sim is correct, your EP value for Expertise is 0.0 . Adding more expertise will have no impact on your expertise, so lowering it artificially to get a value would not be a good idea.
#723SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shegokigo
Originally Posted by ganrak View Post
With that in your expertise its still capped. Presuming this is for level 70 that is. The cap for expertise is around 104 if i remember correctly, so you'd need to input something lower to get an EP value for expertise.
I try to input something lower. All the way to ZERO and it still skips it. I try and use negative numbers to get an idea what to gear without dropping UNDER the cap.

Originally Posted by ChaguraED View Post
And currently the sim is correct, your EP value for Expertise is 0.0 . Adding more expertise will have no impact on your expertise, so lowering it artificially to get a value would not be a good idea.
My above reply is what I'm currently questioning as "what to do".
#724SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Shegokigo View Post
I try to input something lower. All the way to ZERO and it still skips it. I try and use negative numbers to get an idea what to gear without dropping UNDER the cap.



My above reply is what I'm currently questioning as "what to do".

are you changing the EP value or your expertise value?

If changing EP then just make the value negative so that it will take you under the cap and that will give you an EP value.

If changing your Exp value and you are getting that, then you broke the Sim, since the sim seems to work fine for everyone else I'm gonna guess its the first option.
#725SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shegokigo
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
are you changing the EP value or your expertise value?

If changing EP then just make the value negative so that it will take you under the cap and that will give you an EP value.

If changing your Exp value and you are getting that, then you broke the Sim, since the sim seems to work fine for everyone else I'm gonna guess its the first option.

I can't put it on any "POSITIVE" numbers or it skips it. I can put it in negative, but my question is WHAT value negative should I put for a realistic EP value? -20? -50? I need a value for Exp that I can weigh my gear on for replacing a piece of expertise I'm wearing right now (Hydross Shoulders, Vashj Belt, T6 Bracer, T6 Boots, Shard of Contempt). With another piece of Sunwell/MH/BT, but without the right EP weights, I can't use lootrank to balance them out.
#726SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Shegokigo View Post
I can't put it on any "POSITIVE" numbers or it skips it. I can put it in negative, but my question is WHAT value negative should I put for a realistic EP value? -20? -50? I need a value for Exp that I can weigh my gear on for replacing a piece of expertise I'm wearing right now (Hydross Shoulders, Vashj Belt, T6 Bracer, T6 Boots, Shard of Contempt). With another piece of Sunwell/MH/BT, but without the right EP weights, I can't use lootrank to balance them out.
Remove them all and input those paper doll stats and that should give you the values to determine which ones to put on. Then you don't need to go negative on your EP values since then you will be under the Exp cap in the first place.
#727SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shegokigo
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Remove them all and input those paper doll stats and that should give you the values to determine which ones to put on. Then you don't need to go negative on your EP values since then you will be under the Exp cap in the first place.
Well, If I take off shoulders I'm still over exp cap, if I take off belt, I'm dead on exp cap. My question is if I de-equip them all and put in those paper doll stats, will it correctly weigh the rest of my stats other than Exp or do I just get the value of exp (from wearing none) and input that value in Lootrank, reequip them again, get the values for all non-exp stats and find those values?

My head is beginning to hurt.....
#728SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Andrast
Originally Posted by Shegokigo View Post
I can't put it on any "POSITIVE" numbers or it skips it. I can put it in negative, but my question is WHAT value negative should I put for a realistic EP value? -20? -50? I need a value for Exp that I can weigh my gear on for replacing a piece of expertise I'm wearing right now (Hydross Shoulders, Vashj Belt, T6 Bracer, T6 Boots, Shard of Contempt). With another piece of Sunwell/MH/BT, but without the right EP weights, I can't use lootrank to balance them out.
The easiest thing to do is just ignore expertise completely and make sure you're capped. If you run the sim with mh and oh values of 0 expertise rating you'll see that it has a very high value and will retain this value until the cap. Once you reach the expertise cap it will immediately have a value of zero.

The sim is useful, but it seems far more important, to me, to actually simulate useful things that can't be answered easily through other means. In this case you know that expertise has a high value before the cap and zero value afterwards. The problem with lootrank is if you give expertise a value you'll find that things like the "tanking" M'uru trinket have an abnormally high value compared to anything else when in reality you don't need expertise since you're capped already.
#729SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Shegokigo View Post
Well, If I take off shoulders I'm still over exp cap, if I take off belt, I'm dead on exp cap. My question is if I de-equip them all and put in those paper doll stats, will it correctly weigh the rest of my stats other than Exp or do I just get the value of exp (from wearing none) and input that value in Lootrank, reequip them again, get the values for all non-exp stats and find those values?

My head is beginning to hurt.....

How can you not understand how to use EP to evaluate gear choices when there is a cap involved? This really doesn't belong in this thread since it has nothing to do with the Sim and honestly I don't think it belongs in any of these threads since it really is pretty dumb. One last time and then I wipe my hands of this.

Take off all the pieces you are choosing between.
In this case that means every piece with expertise.
Stick your paperdoll stats into the sim.
Take the values from there and stick them in lootlink.
Weigh the pieces against each other and combine them until you get to the Exp cap with the best possible total EP value.
Then stop and rerun lootlink with 0 as the EP value for expertise.
For every spot that does not have any gear now use gear ranking to fill them with all the options.

That is you ideal set from your current gear. Then you have a lootrank page for items that have expertise on them and a lootrank page for items once you are over the expertise cap. You may end up over the cap using this method and that is fine if the item is ranked highly on the lootrank page with 0 as the EP value for Exp then it is a better item then the other choices even though the Expertise is doing nothing.
#730SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Using download from site of v1.3.4.rar and exporting to a directory and doing nothing other than double clicking on EnhSimGUI I am getting :

See the end of this message for details on invoking 
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index and length must refer to a location within the string.
Parameter name: length
   at System.String.InternalSubStringWithChecks(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length, Boolean fAlwaysCopy)
   at System.String.Substring(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.readConfigFile(SByte* filename)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.MainForm_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnLoad(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnCreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl(Boolean fIgnoreVisible)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
enhsimgui
    Assembly Version: 1.0.3209.18414
    Win32 Version: 
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/World%20of%20Warcraft/Interface/Programming/EnhSim/enhsimgui.exe
----------------------------------------
msvcm90
    Assembly Version: 9.0.30729.1
    Win32 Version: 9.00.30729.1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/WinSxS/x86_Microsoft.VC90.CRT_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.1_x-ww_6f74963e/msvcm90.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.
This suggests the default config file as supplied has data that the GUI doesn't like.


I was experimenting with simply cutting and pasting the test export from ShockAndAwe and got this error. If you click continue the sim still loads. The EnhSim.exe accepts the config file just fine however. Also noted that saving the file once loaded then reads in just fine, so its probably some of the comment stuff it doesn't like.


I'd also point out that if you can rearrange the config file so all the stuff got from paper doll is at the end (or beginning) in one consecutive block, then the save routine from the GUI needs to output in the same fashion.


Cutting and pasting values from v3.30 to the version saved by EnhSimGUI seems to work just fine.
#731SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mindrila
I want to try out a new Look and Feel Library I found on the web, so could someone with a mac test this tiny application an tell me if it looks fine or if it looks ugly?

When it looks ugly I can skip learning to use it, but if it looks fine I'm going to use it.

Tiny (Copyrigth of this app goes to Karsten Lentzsch from jgoodies.com)
#732SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Mindrila View Post
I want to try out a new Look and Feel Library I found on the web, so could someone with a mac test this tiny application an tell me if it looks fine or if it looks ugly?

When it looks ugly I can skip learning to use it, but if it looks fine I'm going to use it.

Tiny (Copyrigth of this app goes to Karsten Lentzsch from jgoodies.com)
I am wondering, what is that exactly and what does it have to do with the sim? I don't have Mac to test it...but you said if it looks okay, you are going to use it. In what?
#733SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mindrila
In my Java GUi for EnhSim, I want to program one so that our beloved Macusers have one too. This Tiny program is only to demonstrate the capabilities of the look and feel library. Sorry for not mentioning it.
#734SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Darkclaw
I have a question about what settings in the config file mostly effect when you run an EP sim?
Does it actually use all of them for that, or could we use a more simplified config for just doing EP values?

Sorry if this was answered in some way already and I just didn't find it, and haven't seemed to figure it out yet. (my computer is a bit slow...
#735SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Darkclaw
Originally Posted by Mindrila View Post
In my Java GUi for EnhSim, I want to program one so that our beloved Macusers have one too. This Tiny program is only to demonstrate the capabilities of the look and feel library. Sorry for not mentioning it.


I got this error

10/25/08 4:29:33 PM [0x0-0x332332].com.apple.JarLauncher[8417] Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/jgoodies/looks/Options
10/25/08 4:29:33 PM [0x0-0x332332].com.apple.JarLauncher[8417] at Tiny.configureUI(Tiny.java:76)
10/25/08 4:29:33 PM [0x0-0x332332].com.apple.JarLauncher[8417] at Tiny.main(Tiny.java:60)
#736SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tukez
EnhSim 1.4.2

1.4.2
-Mana simulation added. Config option is simulate_mana.
-Added glyphs Glyph of Lava, Glyph of Lava Lash and Glyph of Water Mastery.
-Changed Glyph of Flame Shock to increase duration by 6s and LvB not to consume it.
-Fixed bug with Flame Shock dots.
-Unrelenting Storm added.
-Shamanistic Rage added to rotation. Option is SR. You can control SR usage with cast_sr_only_if_mana_left.
-Fixed Lava Burst base damages to 1151 and 1355.
-Fixed Lava Burst crit damage modifiers to current known mechanics. Crit damage: base damage + crit bonus damage * ( 100% + Elemental Fury + Lava Flows + other bonus %).
-Spirit, mana and mp5 added to base stats. Base_mana removed. EP value calculations added for spirit, mana and mp5. Changed some consumables to give spirit too.
-Added message to inform if part of some EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
-Added buffs Water Shield, Replenishment, Mana Spring Totem, Blessing of Wisdom and Judgement of Wisdom.
-If spell_crit_chance_buff is greater than 0, Elemental Oath is disabled.
-Mana Potions added. You can control the usage with use_mana_potion_if_mana_left.
-Skycall Totem fixed to give only spell haste.
-Fixed Glyph of Earth Shock mechanics.
-Added race, mh_weapon and oh_weapon config options. You don't manually have to add draenei hit bonus or orc's axe bonus anymore.
-Fixed Earth Shock mana cost to 18%.

enhsim - Google Code


A lot of stuff, so there are probably bugs. I suggest you take the results of this version with a grain of salt.

About the FS bug I found, I'm not sure how much did it affect the previous versions, but people might want to test again, if FS is viable.

In the statistics, MRPS means mana regen per second. The last MRPS is mana regen including overregen.

Intelligence's EP value is calculated from mp5(through Unrelenting Storm), spirit, ap(Mental Dexterity), mana and spell crit.


EDIT: I forgot to mention, that Shamanistic Rage's ppm is set to 15. I just made that up, fee free to correct.

Last edited by tukez : 10/27/08 at 6:38 AM.
#737SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Can you clarify which mp5 figure is required. The config.txt file is silent on the matter - I'd assume its in combat regen rate rather than the ooc headline figure given on paper doll?

Looking through the config file to check I've covered things in ShockAndAwe I noted that the GUI has a small bug :

On changing some stats and saving the file it misspells oh_weapon as oh_waepon and if you initially load a file with a - it seems to save a blank. I suspect it may be due to the misspelling mismatching the value?

Suggested config layout for putting paperdoll stuff at the end :

#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value

//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			2500 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				0	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				0	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			1	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account


########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				40
ep_crit_rating 			20
ep_hit_rating 			20
ep_expertise 			3 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	20
ep_spellpower 			24
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				200
ep_spirit			100
ep_mp5				20


###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		2	//{ 0 | 1 | 2 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left		0.0	//maximum seconds to wait for LvB cooldown to use MW
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast sr
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting









//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		7
rotation_priority1		SR
rotation_priority2		LVB
rotation_priority3		FS
rotation_priority4		SS
rotation_priority5		ES
rotation_priority6		LL
rotation_priority7		LS


##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				9.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			25.00	//%
armor				7700	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0


######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		0/2600		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0/610		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	0.0/2.0		//%, bloody frenzy, 2nd talent spec TBA
melee_haste_buff		0.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		0/306		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	0.0/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	0.0/10.0	//%, improved scorch, winter's chill
spell_damage_debuff		0.0/10.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of elements, totem of wrath
spellpower_buff			0/150		//focus magic, improved divine spirit, flametongue totem, demonic pact
spell_hit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			0.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	0.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath
stat_multiplier			0.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			0/19		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		0/98		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			0/40		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }


#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			elixir_of_major_agility
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength | - }

guardian_elixir			elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				spice_hot_talbuk
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | - }

misc_item			drums_of_battle
// { drums_of_battle | - }

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race				orc	//{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed			2.60
oh_speed			1.40
mh_dps				100.3
oh_dps				107.9
mh_crit				31.42	//%
oh_crit				31.42	
mh_hit				8.05	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit				8.05
mh_expertise_rating		112	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating		112
ap				1866	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
haste				6.47	//%
armor_penetration		10.42	//%
str				277
agi				289
int				208
spi				100
spellpower			560	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit			26.18	//%
spell_hit			13.00	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
max_mana			6000
mp5				0


mh_imbue	 		windfury
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | - }

mh_enchant			mongoose
oh_enchant			mongoose
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | - }

mh_weapon			axe
oh_weapon			axe
//{ axe | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			madness_of_the_betrayer
trinket2			shard_of_contempt
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  abacus_of_violent_odds | badge_of_tenacity |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | fury_of_the_five_flights |
//  grim_toll | loathebs_shadow | mirror_of_truth | 
//  the_skull_of_guldan | meteorite_whetstone | embrace_of_the_spider |
//  dying curse | illustration_of_the_dragon_soul |
//  sundial_of_the_exiled | forge_ember | incisor_fragment |
//  mark_of_the_war_prisoner | sphere_of_the_red_dragons_blood |
//  tome_of_arcane_phenomena | - }

totem				stonebreakers_totem
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | totem_of_splintering |
//  totem_of_ancestral_guidance | totem_of_the_void | skycall_totem | 
//  totem_of_hex | - }

set_bonus			skyshatter_harness_4
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness | desolation_battlegear |
//  skyshatter_harness_2 | skyshatter_harness_4 | skyshatter_regalia_2 |
//  skyshatter_regalia_4 | naxx_melee_2 | naxx_melee_4 | gladiators_earthshaker |
//  naxx_nuker_2 | naxx_nuker_4 | - }

metagem				relentless_earthstorm_diamond
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | 
//  chaotic_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyflare_diamond |
//  ember_skyflare_diamond | relentless_earthsiege_diamond | - }

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			-
glyph_major2			-
glyph_major3			-
glyph_major4			-
//{ lightning_shield | flametongue_weapon | lightning_bolt |
//  windfury_weapon | stormstrike | earth_shock | lava | lava_lash |
//  water_mastery | - }

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-


#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		0/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		0/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			5/5
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			3/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			0/5
call_of_flame			0/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			1/1
elemental_fury			5/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/5
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/5
v3.41 of ShockAndAwe supplies most of the data now, it is missing the tooltip scraping data for weapon dps, set bonuses, meta gems. Also I need to add the glyph info. However whilst working out what you have for this is missing it still exports the option name with a - as a value for users to manually fill in.

I also noted in the priorities there is an option for Lightning Shield but Water Shield is under buffs and consumables - could this cause a conflict? Given the sim now does mana calcs it might be better under priorities so the sim can't accidentally calculate water shield and lightning shield benefits combined.

Edit: Noted that there is still an option "wait MW if LvB left" in the GUI - I would have said this is redundant now that LvB cannot be instant cast off MW.

The options "Cast LS only if charges left", "cast SR only if mana left" and "use mana potion if mana left" suffer from copy n paste syndrome. Their tooltips are the same as the two items above them.

Last edited by Levva : 10/28/08 at 8:51 AM.
#738SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
pdpi
Originally Posted by Mindrila View Post
In my Java GUi for EnhSim, I want to program one so that our beloved Macusers have one too. This Tiny program is only to demonstrate the capabilities of the look and feel library. Sorry for not mentioning it.
For all the cross-platform GUI programming I've done before (in Python), I've used the wxWidgets package, which works well enough for Windows, Linux/GTK, and Mac OS. It's also reasonably simple to use.

I dug around and there appears to be a set of java bindings for it too: jwx! - wxWidgets for Java

EDIT: In my haste to communicate my previous experience to you, I missed that those bindings are still in Alpha. Oh well...

Last edited by pdpi : 10/28/08 at 8:28 AM. Reason: Ooops
#739SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Saabu
When I do a 'simulate' I am showing unleashed rage as 0% uptime even though I have the full 5 points added in the talent screen.
#740SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Afabar
Originally Posted by Saabu View Post
When I do a 'simulate' I am showing unleashed rage as 0% uptime even though I have the full 5 points added in the talent screen.
I would that it's because in your config file, the 10% AP bonus is already brought.
#741SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paradox
i'm confused as to how to work with this sim and the EP values it spits out.

I exported my data using ShockAndAwe, added it into the config.txt and filled in what it couldn't export like weapon speed (Why not I don't know)

I ran the sim, got my EP values, and added them to Pawn
I then swapped my gear / gems around based on what Pawn was telling me was better, using the EP values the sim gave me.

Then I exported my data again, and ran the sim again, and then added the new EP values to Pawn.

And then Pawn was telling me my previous gear was better, after I just re-gemmed all my other items... so how the hell does this work?
with the Java sim, I did exactly the same thing, got my EP values, put them into the game, and chose my gear like that.. but this just doesn't seem to be working? what am I doing wrong?
#742SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skreekins
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
i'm confused as to how to work with this sim and the EP values it spits out.

I exported my data using ShockAndAwe, added it into the config.txt and filled in what it couldn't export like weapon speed (Why not I don't know)

I ran the sim, got my EP values, and added them to Pawn
I then swapped my gear / gems around based on what Pawn was telling me was better, using the EP values the sim gave me.

Then I exported my data again, and ran the sim again, and then added the new EP values to Pawn.

And then Pawn was telling me my previous gear was better, after I just re-gemmed all my other items... so how the hell does this work?
with the Java sim, I did exactly the same thing, got my EP values, put them into the game, and chose my gear like that.. but this just doesn't seem to be working? what am I doing wrong?
Are you watching your caps? If your old gear was special/spell capped then the EP values generated for hit would be comparably low to someone who wasn't capped. Regearing/gemming based on the EP values for your old gear could potentially cause you to sink below your previously reached caps (because of the lower EP values for hit), which would greatly increase the EP for hit and cause your old gear to score better. The inverse is also true. if your old gear is NOT special/spell capped you will get higher values for hit, which would lead you to choose upgrades with tons of hit when you really only needed a little bit more to cap spells (at which point the value drops significantly).

Accounting for caps isnt something that can be easily automated with any tools we currently have. Try upgrading from your old gear one piece at a time and generating new EP values after each piece. Watch your hit % before you choose an upgrade and see if it will cause you to dip below the cap. If my theory is correct, you will reach some sort of medium between your two gear sets.

The sim is very quick, so if you would like more of an affirmation that your upgrades are indeed upgrades you can always run a DPS simulation after each piece as well.
#743SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paradox
Originally Posted by Skreekins View Post
Are you watching your caps? If your old gear was special/spell capped then the EP values generated for hit would be comparably low to someone who wasn't capped. Regearing/gemming based on the EP values for your old gear could potentially cause you to sink below your previously reached caps (because of the lower EP values for hit), which would greatly increase the EP for hit and cause your old gear to score better. The inverse is also true. if your old gear is NOT special/spell capped you will get higher values for hit, which would lead you to choose upgrades with tons of hit when you really only needed a little bit more to cap spells (at which point the value drops significantly).

Accounting for caps isnt something that can be easily automated with any tools we currently have. Try upgrading from your old gear one piece at a time and generating new EP values after each piece. Watch your hit % before you choose an upgrade and see if it will cause you to dip below the cap. If my theory is correct, you will reach some sort of medium between your two gear sets.

The sim is very quick, so if you would like more of an affirmation that your upgrades are indeed upgrades you can always run a DPS simulation after each piece as well.

thanks, i'll try this

what are the caps?
#744SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
what are the caps?
Less than 5 minutes of effort and you can figure this out on your own you know.
#745SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
wow really?
Read http://elitistjerks.com/938358-post8.html for help.

BTW ShockAndAwe doesn't currently export weapon dps numbers as there is no in game call to export them I have to write something that analyses the tooltip and captures the information from there. Since this is a lot of work for a very minor change (major in its effects on the sim if you don't change the numbers granted), I have chosen to release what works and add this to the list of things to find out how to do.
#746SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rosboeuf
Someone sent me a bug report for 1.4.2:

>>

If you don't have unrelenting_storm talent in your config file (at least 0/5), it calculates over 7000 EP value of intelligence.

>>

In the meantime I'll update the Mac app.
#747SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rosboeuf View Post
Someone sent me a bug report for 1.4.2:

>>

If you don't have unrelenting_storm talent in your config file (at least 0/5), it calculates over 7000 EP value of intelligence.

>>

In the meantime I'll update the Mac app.
You are supposed to use the latest config file format available.

Don't put the Mac version up just yet, I'll release new version soon.
#748SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.4.3

1.4.3
-wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left removed.
-Judgement of Wisdom changed to restore 1% of max mana.
-Default layout of config files changed to make ShockAndAwe export easier.

enhsim - Google Code


Thank you Levva for the feedback. I didn't change Water Shield, but I added a warning to the GUI to warn if LS and WS are used the same time.
#749SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kadari
I'm very new to using this sim but was curious if there was a way to run a test against level 72 and below mobs, say for trash and 5 mans. Would i need to change the numbers on the boss tab only and to what amounts? Also about the boss tab shouldn't the miss % be set to 28% when dual wielding instead of the default 9%?
#750SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Kadari View Post
I'm very new to using this sim but was curious if there was a way to run a test against level 72 and below mobs, say for trash and 5 mans. Would i need to change the numbers on the boss tab only and to what amounts? Also about the boss tab shouldn't the miss % be set to 28% when dual wielding instead of the default 9%?
I don't know the values with lower level mobs, but yes, you need to change the values in the boss tab.

9% miss is right, the sim adds 19% miss for white attacks.
#751SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Writing the ShockAndAwe code for exporting the detail of any set bonuses it struck me that its perfectly possible for someone to have a two piece bonus from one set and a two piece bonus from another. eg: I could well believe people with T6 gear replacing with naxx gear would end up with 2 different "2 set" bonuses ie:one from T6, one from Naxx kit. I couldn't see any way the sim would cope with this.

I was thinking for ShockAndAwe purposes I go with the latter of the two. Although I could see long term it being possible to have 2 from one set and 2 from another (eg: PvP)

If you plan on catering for this might I suggest :

set_bonus gear_name_X; gear_name_Y (where X & Y are 2 or 4 or whatever the bonus number is).

This format maintains consistency with later gear as at present you have some with gear_name format and some with gear_name_X format.
#752SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
I put up a new download of 1.4.3 versioned 1.4.3.1. I didn't change EnhSim, just the GUI. I had messed up the GUI and it was outputting wrong config file format.

Levva, ShockAndAwe does not export Unrelenting Storm talent. It results in GUI crashing.
#753SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Oogachaka
Has anyone tried putting into EP the Lightning Capacitor on enhance or other on spell crit trinkets?
(Like the upcoming Thunder Capacitor and Serrah's Star)

Should we follow we follow the basic same fixed ep + proc ep divided by cooldown?
How do we take into account the spell crit rate vs cooldowns?

Edit: Someone posted a similar question about a week ago, but i think it got lost along the way.

I'm actually more interested in these trinkets since i heard ft crits can proc them.

Last edited by Oogachaka : 10/30/08 at 2:51 AM.
#754SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I put up a new download of 1.4.3 versioned 1.4.3.1. I didn't change EnhSim, just the GUI. I had messed up the GUI and it was outputting wrong config file format.

Levva, ShockAndAwe does not export Unrelenting Storm talent. It results in GUI crashing.
Ok fixed in next release. I noted in the Water Shield/Lightning Shield warning that it works if you turn on both - you get the warning. If you then turn one off the warning doesn't go away.
#755SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bingarosso
So, I've checked the Enhsim thread, the Shock and Awe Thread and the WOTLK Enh Shaman thread and I have not been able to figure this out. I will phrase it is a request to update the readme rather than an unuseful individual question.

It's not very intuitive how to use the "Export" function of SAA along with Enhsim. (I've still yet to figure it out). If you could 1) Outline it here, and 2) Maybe throw it in the readme or alternately incorporate an explanation besides "Press Ctrl C" into SAA, that would be dope.
#756SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
I've updated the news section in ShockAndAwe to explain things - new version up soon after I've tested things in game.

Using cut n paste is very very simple and works exactly the same as every other Windows and Mac application. You open the default config file called config.txt in the EnhSim download. At the bottom of it is a section that tells you to replace it with the ShockAndAwe data. Open the config.txt file on Windows in Wordpad or similar (notepad doesn't work as it doesn't understand the next line character from WOW). Delete the default data then goto WoW.

So now you are in game you type /saa export and up pops the export box. Press CTRL-C to copy the data to the clipboard. Minimise WoW and go back to your text editor, and paste the text you copied from WoW into your text editor, by default this is CTRL-V. You can of course use menu paste options if you prefer.

Once you save the config.txt file - eg: I save mine as Levva.txt you can then run the Sim, if you aren't sure about the options I'd recommend running EnhSimGUI.exe and selecting File Load and load your saved file. Then you can visually see its imported your data and it allows you to visually tick what buffs etc you have. Clicking on the Simulate button will then run the sim.

Last edited by Levva : 10/31/08 at 11:31 AM.
#757SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Paradox
thanks for the hard work on SAA.

Is there any chance of something like an "import" for the EP data that the sim spits out? saves manually adding the EP data into Pawn every time we run the sim and increases synergy between the sim and SAA.

The sim keeps spitting out EP values for my INT at crazy amounts like "4284.2" is this a known bug or something how do I deal with this value?

Last edited by Paradox : 10/31/08 at 11:31 AM.
#758SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
thanks for the hard work on SAA.

Is there any chance of something like an "import" for the EP data that the sim spits out? saves manually adding the EP data into Pawn every time we run the sim and increases synergy between the sim and SAA.

The sim keeps spitting out EP values for my INT at crazy amounts like "4284.2" is this a known bug or something how do I deal with this value?
There is already an addon that does this called Equivalence Points Which allows you to enter the values from the sim.

It would be nice if the Sim had a feature (a tick box option) to display the import string for this addon (it would be the same format as Yo!s simulator used. ie: you tick box (or set option in config file) run the sim and after all the output it shows a import string for Equiv Points and/or a Lootrank URL.
#759SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3afx114
Skyguard Silver Cross

Thanks for the great work on SAA Levva. I have a few questions:

1) Using the export copy/paste method outlined above, my paste looks like it contains rich-text linebreaks. They show up as squares when I paste into my config.txt. Shouldn't this be exported as plain text?

2) Can you add [Skyguard Silver Cross] to the trinket export?

Thanks so much, SAA is the bee's knees.
#760SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by afx114 View Post
2) Can you add [Skyguard Silver Cross] to the trinket export?

Thanks so much, SAA is the bee's knees.
Trinket does nothing special. You never get proc against single target. It just have passive stats. You see passive stat at paperdoll. Problem solved.
#761SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3afx114
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Trinket does nothing special. You never get proc against single target. It just have passive stats. You see passive stat at paperdoll. Problem solved.
How is it any different than [Hourglass of the Unraveller], which is included in EnhSim?
#762SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kyuki
It's diffrent because it doesnt have a proc that provides randomly ala chance on X - but rather each time you kill something - Which has 0 purpose when you want to hit something (even trash) in a 25 man eviroment.
#763SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by afx114 View Post
How is it any different than [Hourglass of the Unraveller], which is included in EnhSim?
Because you don't kill anything in the sim, hence you will never activate the trinket. This is pretty elementary, did you actually read the trinket description where it says you have to kill something that grants XP or honor?
#764SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3afx114
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Because you don't kill anything in the sim, hence you will never activate the trinket. This is pretty elementary, did you actually read the trinket description where it says you have to kill something that grants XP or honor?
Yes, but Kyuki clarified it for me. Thanks Kyuki.
#765SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3RadicalSS
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
There is already an addon that does this called Equivalence Points Which allows you to enter the values from the sim.

It would be nice if the Sim had a feature (a tick box option) to display the import string for this addon (it would be the same format as Yo!s simulator used. ie: you tick box (or set option in config file) run the sim and after all the output it shows a import string for Equiv Points and/or a Lootrank URL.
Ive made a parser/converter from EnhSim to pawn. You can find it here:
Pawn parser from EnhSim output

All the code is included in the html so you can see whats going on. Tukez, you are more than welcome to take the code.

Please reply here if there are any errors. Ill update the rest on Sunday, Im planning to a loot rank link as well.

Tukez, a suggestion: could you add EP calc for meta gems? I dont think it should be too hard to implement. I might look at it next weekend, not sure Ill have the time though.

Enjoy.
#766SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by RadicalSS View Post
Ive made a parser/converter from EnhSim to pawn. You can find it here:
Pawn parser from EnhSim output

All the code is included in the html so you can see whats going on. Tukez, you are more than welcome to take the code.

Please reply here if there are any errors. Ill update the rest on Sunday, Im planning to a loot rank link as well.

Tukez, a suggestion: could you add EP calc for meta gems? I dont think it should be too hard to implement. I might look at it next weekend, not sure Ill have the time though.

Enjoy.
Yeah, I might add the metagem EP to next version. Thanks for the gem calculator
#767SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Amaxe
Anyone else having a problem with SAA 3.6.0? I had to disable it because there was text overwriting the whole screen (I think it was an intro screen). I hate to lose the addon, but it makes WoW unplayable at the moment.
#768SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Afabar
Originally Posted by Amaxe View Post
Anyone else having a problem with SAA 3.6.0? I had to disable it because there was text overwriting the whole screen (I think it was an intro screen). I hate to lose the addon, but it makes WoW unplayable at the moment.
There sould be a "OK" button in the bottom that close the window.
#769SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Amaxe
Originally Posted by Afabar View Post
There sould be a "OK" button in the bottom that close the window.
I looked but it is entirely filling my screen, so i can't access any "OK" button
#770SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ilmatar
The news frame is only shown when the addon is updated, so logging out and logging back in (don't disable the addon) should hide the window. It would be cool if the news frame could be moved, or dismissed with Escape or Enter. Very good work, on S&A, Levva.

Tukez, I've been really busy all week but I will get to the trinket thing (before wrath, I hope).

Thanks for the Pawn parser, and mad props for making it a JS app
#771SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Darkclaw
I would like to put my vote in for having both PAWN and Equivalence Points ready data in the EP value calculations. Please.

I use Both, but prefer PAWN for most things, it's just so much easier to use... Equivalence Points however is good for helping me choose weapons, I haven't figured out how to get it to show me different data for helping choose Off Spec gear. (heal, ele) also seems to give different values even when I'm 98% sure the numbers between the 2 tools are the same.

Love SSA and how it exports


BTW, i've dug around and can't find a how to build the Sim for the code challenged description, can anyone write up a step by step how in Xcode, so we can keep up to date? I love that there is a Mac version up there now, I'm just worried it may fall out of sync with new features in SSA exports.

Thanks!

Last edited by Darkclaw : 11/01/08 at 7:24 PM. Reason: added a minor comment.
#772SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3RadicalSS
I've updated the parser a bit, and I'm satisfied enough. So unless there are any mistakes, it wont be changed.

I might add Equivalence Points, if you can link me the documentation as I dont use that add on.
#773SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by RadicalSS View Post
I've updated the parser a bit, and I'm satisfied enough. So unless there are any mistakes, it wont be changed.

I might add Equivalence Points, if you can link me the documentation as I dont use that add on.
No need EquivalencePoints - Addons - Curse can import LootRank URLs too. Its a great addon as it gives each item its total EP value shown on the tooltip in game - so when you are comparing stuff side by side (with EquipCompare EquipCompare : WoWInterface Downloads : Bags, Bank, Inventory Mods ) You can glance at the total EP value to see if its an upgrade.

Oh and to those mentioning the News frame issue in SAA v3.60 please upgrade to v3.62. Also if we could keep this thread to the SIM and how it works and stuff like that - SAA has its own forum thread at ShockAndAwe (formerly DisqoDice) please post stuff about SAA there and NOT on this thread.
#774SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3raabnox
Has anyone else been getting very high EP values for INT when running the sim? When I ran the sim yesterday, int came in @ 3.8. This seems a bit out of line.

My int is at 251 and my mana pool @ 6443.
#775SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by raabnox View Post
Has anyone else been getting very high EP values for INT when running the sim? When I ran the sim yesterday, int came in @ 3.8. This seems a bit out of line.

My int is at 251 and my mana pool @ 6443.
If you have any out of mana time, int will have high value. If you don't have OOM time, it's a bug.

There is a bug in the sim. If you disable spirit EP calculation, int EP value will be messed up, because it includes dividing by ep_spirit(0 if disabled). This is fixed in the next version. This bug probably causes those very high int EP values some people have reported.
#776SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Barrar
I am still having issues getting EP values which make logical sense. I know that once spell hit cap is reached, the weight of hit rating should drop quite a bit and I thought from others that it should be worth less than crit rating and agility. They all seem to come out close, but yet hit rating continues to be valued more than crit/AP/agility. Could you please take a look and see if I missed something here? I understand how the sim works (beginning to think I don't) and how EPs are calculated so the math makes sense. Thanks for any greater understanding you can help me with.

ep_base_stat				ap
ep_ap 					40
ep_crit_rating 				20
ep_hit_rating 				20
ep_expertise 				3
ep_haste_rating 			20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	        20
ep_spellpower 				24
ep_dps					7.5
ep_mana				        200
ep_mp5				        20
mh_speed				2.6
oh_speed				2.5
mh_dps					100.2
oh_dps					103.0
mh_crit					24.72
oh_crit					24.72	
mh_hit					10.72
oh_hit					10.72
mh_expertise_rating			25
oh_expertise_rating			25
ap				        2087
haste					5.0
armor_penetration			0
str				        115
agi			                371
int				        239
spi					128
spellpower				750
spell_crit				19.71
spell_hit				14.0
mh_imbue	 			windfury
oh_imbue	 			flametongue
mh_enchant				mongoose
oh_enchant				mongoose
trinket1			        darkmoon_card_crusade
trinket2				dragonspine_trophy
baseline                                      		    2441.52
ap                        		1.00      0.46      2459.94        18.42
crit rating               		1.95      0.90      2459.44        17.93
hit rating               	 	2.18      1.00      2461.56        20.05
expertise rating          	        3.56      1.64      2460.88        19.37
haste rating              		1.16      0.53      2452.19        10.68
armor penetration rating  	        1.37      0.63      2454.10        12.58
spellpower                		0.74      0.34      2449.68        8.17
mh dps                    		6.59      3.03      2464.26        22.75
oh dps                    		2.91      1.34      2451.56        10.04
strength                  		1.10
agility                   		1.97
intelligence              		1.26

Last edited by Barrar : 11/03/08 at 4:03 PM.
#777SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ChaguraED
Your Hit does look in line with numbers I've seen from peoples results. Hit is by no means a bad stat anymore, even after spell cap. It's a direct contribution to our maelstrom procs happening faster. As well, flametongue on your offhand will help drive hit value up. If you swap to WF on your OH you may see hit EP drop, but that may drop your overall DPS as well. If it says hit is good, then more hit is good.
#778SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Lethnon
My sim numbers are looking like Barrar's, but I am also seeing another odd thing with the sim. Before, I was in T5, still had STR gems and enchants, etc. Now, I have a few more hyjal / bt pieces of gear, I have replaced my str enchants with hit and AP, and my hit is 169, yet the sim shows a decrease in DPS. It doesn't match what I am hitting in raids and such, and I am quite confused. Can anyone help explain this?

*edit*

I think I figured it out. For some reason, the sim isn't reading my MH or OH dps anymore.

*edit #2*

I went back and double checked. Shock and Awe has stopped putting in MH and OH DPS, and no matter what imbue you actually have, it seems to be putting in windfury for both hands. I don't know if a newer version of SAA just came out (I use the curse client, and so sometimes addon updates slip by automatically) or if another addon I have is causing issues with the export.

Last edited by Lethnon : 11/04/08 at 2:49 AM.
#779SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jasum
Originally Posted by raabnox View Post
Has anyone else been getting very high EP values for INT when running the sim? When I ran the sim yesterday, int came in @ 3.8. This seems a bit out of line.

My int is at 251 and my mana pool @ 6443.
Since the manapool simulation was implemented you have to put shamanistic rage into your spellrotation. Otherwise the sim thinks your a going oom and more INT would let you go on longer. So the high EP value for INT is kind of logical.
#780SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Tukez, a question came up in the SAA thread for the sim

Should users make sure they clear buffs like flametongue weapon buffs before using the values on their paper doll stats? In SAA export I warn users to remove all buffs (bar heroic presence which you cant remove). Its important I think to ensure people are entering the right values - or SAA is exporting the right ones but there is a lot of confusion about what updates the character sheet and what doesn't.


Originally Posted by Lethnon View Post
I went back and double checked. Shock and Awe has stopped putting in MH and OH DPS, and no matter what imbue you actually have, it seems to be putting in windfury for both hands. I don't know if a newer version of SAA just came out (I use the curse client, and so sometimes addon updates slip by automatically) or if another addon I have is causing issues with the export.
I think the answer to my question above will be you should be exporting without any weapon imbues. As I expected this was the case when I wrote the export routine I programmed SAA to export what the user had set as their weapon buff preferences if you have windfury/windfury set then thats what will export. If you want it to export windfury/flametongue then /saa config and change the options in warning options section.

There is a new version 3.63 that has updates for the export routine, in particular fixes for non enUS clients not recognising the spelling of weapon dps values. Can someone PLEASE do a translation I CANNOT accurately translate myself, so that's why people get errors or output that has 0.0 dps weapons and a warning message. In addition it now exports glyphs.
#781SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Tukez, a question came up in the SAA thread for the sim

Should users make sure they clear buffs like flametongue weapon buffs before using the values on their paper doll stats? In SAA export I warn users to remove all buffs (bar heroic presence which you cant remove). Its important I think to ensure people are entering the right values - or SAA is exporting the right ones but there is a lot of confusion about what updates the character sheet and what doesn't.
Export without any buffs. About the Heroic Presence, I want to make sure, that it does not show on paper doll as I have now assumed? If it doesn't show, everything is ok, also assuming that you removed the adding of Heroic Presence in SAA export, because sim handles it now.
#782SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peragor
When outputting a combat log I am not seeing any shocks.
#783SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3lupohki
Just thought I'd share that I see a small ~7 dps increase when I make my rotation ES-SS, rather than the normal SS-ES.

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         300
max_lag                         350
simulate_mana                   1

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              SR

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    1
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_demonslaying
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          103.1
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         29.45
oh_crit                         29.45
mh_hit                          9.77
oh_hit                          9.77
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              2305
haste                           3.11
armor_penetration               18.64
str                             114
agi                             312
int                             257
spi                             128
spellpower                      691
spell_crit                      24.05
spell_hit                       12.21
max_mana                        6533
mp5                             8

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        berserkers_call
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       skyshatter_harness_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#784SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Acks
What are everyone's thoughts on statistical significance? with a p of .01, and dps at 70 being 2000-3500 depending on the fight, that would mean 20-35 dps difference to even consider making a real change based on the simulator, no?

I am just seeing too many posts here and on the wow general forums making the assumption that a 5 dps difference in the sim (3050 vs 3055) means the latter is superior, when i would consider anything within ~30 dps to be, for all intents and purposes, equal to another setup.

Is it safe to say that the simulator's significance is around 30dps? Or am i just confused? (<-- very possible)
#785SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bargle
Just curious, but were there any unlisted changes between v1.3.4 and 1.4.3 with regards to haste? Without changing any of my buffs/gear/EP steps/etc. my EP value for haste has dropped from 2.25 to 0.97. I looked over the changelog and didn't see any mentions of changes to haste calculations, which is why I'm confused. All of my other EP values are unchanged (aside from minor differences in the range of 0.05 or less).
#786SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3namuras
Is there any modelling for [Band of the Eternal Champion] and [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might]?
#787SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3-Abakus-
Something to consider:
Mage's Focus Magic isn't a spellpower buff anymore, despite being listed as such in EnhSim's tooltip.
#788SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3xkaziex
Question: I have been loading my results from the sim into Equivalencepoints, however i noticed that some people recommend pawn.

is there any real benefit to switch? (just wondering if anyone has used both).

Also, i missed this somewhere but how do you calculate EP on metasockets? or is there a flat value since we have always used 1 type of gem? (ENH).
#789SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jheherrin
Depends on the gem, but for the RED it is quite simple.

If we assume 33% crit rate, your crit damage will be approximately 50% of your total damage.
If you increase your crit damage by 3% you will increase your overall damage by 1.5%.

This also means that your dps will increase by 1.5%.
Find the AEP for 1.5% of YOUR dps, add the agility or crit AEP (depending on which diamond you use) from the diamond and you should reach an AEP for the diamond.

In TBC it was usually in the region of 70AEP for a RED.

It will obviously scale with your dps for Wrath.
#790SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mjoedvitnir
maybe a stupid question but i am the only one where the sim doesnt calculate the right expertise cap for lvl80? or isnt it updated to calculate the right stats for lvl80 yet?
#791SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Make sure you're using the level 80 binary.
#792SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mjoedvitnir
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Make sure you're using the level 80 binary.
well, it is the lvl80 config - and all works well, except the expertise rating.
#793SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
No, not the level 80 config file, the level 80 executable.
#794SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Karok(EU)
Even then it does not seem to check out.
Correct me if I'm wrong but there is 6.5% dodge to remove through expertise.

It takes 32.78 rating to get -1% dodge/parry. 6.5x32.78 = 213.07.
Due to the way expertise is calculated (see tank) you get: 213.07/3.9423, take the floor of that and multiply with 3.9423 gives 212.8842. Or simply 213 expertise rating to cap.

The sim uses 132 expertise rating as cap, which would give ~-4% dodge.
#795SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Karok(EU) View Post
Even then it does not seem to check out.
Correct me if I'm wrong but there is 6.5% dodge to remove through expertise.

It takes 32.78 rating to get -1% dodge/parry. 6.5x32.78 = 213.07.
Due to the way expertise is calculated (see tank) you get: 213.07/3.9423, take the floor of that and multiply with 3.9423 gives 212.8842. Or simply 213 expertise rating to cap.

The sim uses 132 expertise rating as cap, which would give ~-4% dodge.
Let me try:

It takes 32.78998947 rating to get -1% dodge/parry. 6.5%x32.78998947 = 213.134931555. Ceil that and you need 214 expertise rating to cap.

Gui warns if your exp rating + ep exp goes OVER the cap. So if you have 214 expertise it does not give you any warning, assuming that ep expertise is 0 and you don't get expertise from anywhere else(orc + axe). 215 gives warning, because you go OVER the cap. If both hand's expertise is at 214, gui says the test will be skipped, because ep value would be 0.

Btw, 3.9423 is for lvl 70 exp rating -> exp. Lvl 80 rate is 8.1974973675.
#796SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Mjoedvitnir
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
No, not the level 80 config file, the level 80 executable.
its also the lvl80 exec. sim warns at 182 in the gui
no, no axes at procs and stuff configured.

//gui warns but it seems it calculates expertise right, so only a gui display bug.

Last edited by Mjoedvitnir : 11/22/08 at 10:51 AM.
#797SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Mjoedvitnir View Post
its also the lvl80 exec. sim warns at 182 in the gui
no, no axes at procs and stuff configured.

//gui warns but it seems it calculates expertise right, so only a gui display bug.
Default expertise ep range is 4, I think. 182 rating + 4 is close to the cap. So I guess you have 4 in ep expertise range.
#798SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Tukez will you get support for Wrath trinkets and weapon enchants in soon?

Last edited by Malan : 11/22/08 at 5:43 PM.
#799SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Tukez will you get support for Wrath trinkets and weapon enchants in soon?
I have a busy examination week ahead of me. I'll do it after that.
#800SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Darkclaw
Originally Posted by xkaziex View Post
Question: I have been loading my results from the sim into Equivalencepoints, however i noticed that some people recommend pawn.

is there any real benefit to switch? (just wondering if anyone has used both).

Also, i missed this somewhere but how do you calculate EP on metasockets? or is there a flat value since we have always used 1 type of gem? (ENH).
I use both
#801SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Phudu
Hi! Thanks for all the work you guys have done. It have help me aloot, but now I got a problem.
Every time I try to use export my papperdoll from SAA to the EnhSimGui get this messenge.
I dont know where the problem is and I dont know where to turn.



See the end of this message for details on invoking 
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Value of '0' is not valid for 'Value'. 'Value' should be between 'Minimum' and 'Maximum'.
Parameter name: Value
   at System.Windows.Forms.NumericUpDown.set_Value(Decimal value)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.readConfigFile(SByte* filename)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.MainForm_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnLoad(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnCreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl(Boolean fIgnoreVisible)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
enhsimgui
    Assembly Version: 1.0.3224.37290
    Win32 Version: 
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrat%F6r/Skrivbord/EnhSim1.4.3.1/enhsimgui.exe
----------------------------------------
msvcm90
    Assembly Version: 9.0.21022.8
    Win32 Version: 9.00.21022.8
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/WinSxS/x86_Microsoft.VC90.CRT_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_x-ww_d08d0375/msvcm90.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.
Sorry grama and spelling misstake.
#802SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hornbreakerz
Originally Posted by xkaziex View Post
Also, i missed this somewhere but how do you calculate EP on metasockets? or is there a flat value since we have always used 1 type of gem? (ENH).
I have a formula which I made some time ago, but here it is hope it helps.

Taking all this info from EnhSim. So of course you will have to put in your own stats.

White crit dps : 44,155% = 203 dps = 483,3 ep
WF crit dps: 43,16% = 133 dps = 316,7 ep
SS crit dps: 46,025% = 40,5 dps = 96,4 ep
LL crit dps: 45,55% = 20,3 dps = 48,3 ep
ES crit dps: 29,47% = 73,68 dps = 175,43 ep
LB crit dps: 30,46% = 35,3 dps = 84,05 ep

All crit dps = 505,78

1 dps = 2,381 ep

+ 3% crit dmg = 36,1254 EP. + 12 AGI (18,96 ep) = 55,0845 ep
#803SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3chadbrochill
Originally Posted by Phudu View Post
Hi! Thanks for all the work you guys have done. It have help me aloot, but now I got a problem.
Every time I try to use export my papperdoll from SAA to the EnhSimGui get this messenge.
I dont know where the problem is and I dont know where to turn.



See the end of this message for details on invoking 
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Value of '0' is not valid for 'Value'. 'Value' should be between 'Minimum' and 'Maximum'.
Parameter name: Value
   at System.Windows.Forms.NumericUpDown.set_Value(Decimal value)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.readConfigFile(SByte* filename)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.MainForm_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnLoad(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnCreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl(Boolean fIgnoreVisible)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
enhsimgui
    Assembly Version: 1.0.3224.37290
    Win32 Version: 
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrat%F6r/Skrivbord/EnhSim1.4.3.1/enhsimgui.exe
----------------------------------------
msvcm90
    Assembly Version: 9.0.21022.8
    Win32 Version: 9.00.21022.8
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/WinSxS/x86_Microsoft.VC90.CRT_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_x-ww_d08d0375/msvcm90.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.
Sorry grama and spelling misstake.
same here, just input my stats and hit simulate, any ideas whats up?
#804SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ronboar
Can somebody explain to me how the sim. takes the "diminishing returns" of the different ratings (Hit, Crit etc.) into account.

I used the lvl80 version on my level 79 char. And most stats vent down in value, including hit and crit, even if they aren capped.

I'm not doubting this is correct - I just got curious...

Thanks
#805SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by chadbrochill View Post
same here, just input my stats and hit simulate, any ideas whats up?
You need to post your config file in code tags so we can check what is wrong. You did check the values you exported from ShockAndAwe? You didn't just paste and go did you? As it puts in notes for anything it had an issue with, and you should check those and fix anything manually before you run the sim. Weapon DPS speeds being the ones that are giving issues at present, and something I hope to fix very very soon.
#806SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Taowth
In addition to the wrath trinkets (which most are in, atm the only ones i see missing are mark, bandits, and darkmoon card greatness) and enchants that Malan mentioned, thought i'd drop a small reminder for the last couple types of new totems. Splintering is in, but dueling and the gladiator ones are not.
#807SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Phudu
Nvm. I did not used the Enhgui configfile. After that it worked.
#808SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Taowth View Post
In addition to the wrath trinkets (which most are in, atm the only ones i see missing are mark, bandits, and darkmoon card greatness) and enchants that Malan mentioned, thought i'd drop a small reminder for the last couple types of new totems. Splintering is in, but dueling and the gladiator ones are not.
Oh well if they're in there they just aren't represented in the comments of the config files.
#809SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sado
I used the thread search function and am unable to find the method of taking data from SAA and loading it in EnhSim. I know it has something to do with with SAA output being rich text and EnhSim only loading txt files. Is there a method of quickly taking the data from SAA and loading it into EnhSim without having to go through and fix the output by hand?
#810SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3chadbrochill
Originally Posted by Phudu View Post
Nvm. I did not used the Enhgui configfile. After that it worked.
im just retarded and had it pathing to the wrong folder, works fine now sorry to bother.
#811SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Gritts
Quick question, when calculating EP, is it better to simulate with raid buffs, consumable, etc... or just strait with paper doll stats ?

BTW, thanks for the work you guys are doing. I sure do have an interest in the mechanics and how the math of the game. What I don't have is the knowledge to elaborate it myself. You guys make the game more fun to me and make me a better player.
#812SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Low Life
Which stats/settings affect the value of Haste most? I'm thinking I'm doing something wrong because haste seems to be getting ridiculous values for me, I'm hit capped (but not expertise) and crit and agi are bit over 1.7 whereas haste is at 2.16, expertise at 2.54. I'm doing all the simulations with full raid buffs and flask of Endless Rage added to my AP. I know my gear isn't close to optimal but this just seems weird especially since in the TT article haste seems to be valued much lower.

Here's my config if anyone cares enough to check if there's something wrong with it:
simulation_time                 20000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         20
max_lag                         100
simulate_mana                   0

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       20
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               0
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/100
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.8
mh_dps                          143.6
oh_dps                          111.8
mh_crit                         25.48
oh_crit                         25.48
mh_hit                          11.38
oh_hit                          11.38
mh_expertise_rating             119
oh_expertise_rating             119
ap                              3182
haste                           0.12
armor_penetration               0
str                             129
agi                             757
int                             421
spi                             152
spellpower                      900
spell_crit                      18.2
spell_hit                       14.22
max_mana                        10431
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      -

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#813SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
You seem to have very little haste, that and you have 0 bloodlusts set, try changing the last one and see how that influences your haste. The very little haste might explain the high value though, while it's not the best stat, it's still decent when you've reached a good enough crit level, which you seem to have to.

Think of the values in the TTT more as a general guide line, not a rule.
#814SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Sado View Post
I used the thread search function and am unable to find the method of taking data from SAA and loading it in EnhSim. I know it has something to do with with SAA output being rich text and EnhSim only loading txt files. Is there a method of quickly taking the data from SAA and loading it into EnhSim without having to go through and fix the output by hand?
SAA is NOT rich text output and neither is the sim config file. Both are exactly the same format, the only issue is that Notepad is retarded and doesn't understand the standard end of line character that wow puts in the text files. So use ANY text editor other than Notepad and it works. Wordpad is built into windows and perfoms just fine.

All you need to do is to press CTRL-C in SAA minimise WoW and press CTRL-V once in your text editor to paste the text in. Make sure of course you have deleted the default stuff so its not copied twice. All this is dead basic stuff and covered in the readme in game for SAA however.

Note there is an occassional bug at present with SAA that sometimes doesn't recognise Weapon DPS so you may need to manually correct this. Which is just fine as you need to manually adjust the config for your buffs etc anyway.
#815SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mengus
This might just be reconfirming information we already know, but I wanted to share some sim info for folks. Note, this is with my current values, and the ONLY thing I switched out was the MH weapon speed/dps. Unless otherwise noted OH was fixed at 2.6/143.5, WF/FT.

4077 DPS = 2.8s/143.5 x2 (MH AND OH) *used 2.8s OH!
4014 DPS = 2.6s/143.5dps
4009 DPS = 2.8s/143.5dps
3993 DPS = 2.6s/143.5 dps MH AND 2.8s/143.5 OH *used 2.8 OH!
3977 DPS = 2.6s/131dps
3970 DPS = 2.8s/131dps
3937 DPS = 2.5s/143.5dps


The interesting thing to note is that the SLOWEST weapon did not result in the best DPS unless paired with a matching slow OH. This reinforced values I had at 75 with a SWP 2.6/115 dps MH vs a 2.8/111 dps MH Blue from the arena in ZD quest reward. I don't know if this is a result of having matching MH/OH speeds, which seems odd when doing WF/FT, I had previously thought thought the matching weapon speeds was due to WF/WF.

More proof that you should always be simming YOUR current gear. I don't know if the matching weapon speeds is a factor of the simmulations or is actual behavior in game, and it may warrant further investigation.
#816SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tequodai
negative haste rating?

somehow i get a negative haste ep valuation.

heres my config:

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   7
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         29
max_lag                         54
simulate_mana                   1

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              SR

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.50
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          103.0
oh_dps                          103.0
mh_crit                         16.75
oh_crit                         16.75
mh_hit                          8.26
oh_hit                          8.26
mh_expertise_rating             65.00
oh_expertise_rating             65.00
ap                              2046
haste                           3.28
armor_penetration               0.00
str                             165
agi                             412
int                             338
spi                             157
spellpower                      613
spell_crit                      12.67
spell_hit                       10.33
max_mana                        8898
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        -
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    -
glyph_major2                    -
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
just wondering, i thought haste is like a flat 1% dps increase now and the plateau around 1.5 is not really achievable ?
#817SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xieon
Minor Bug

One small thing regarding the GUI to report. Tabbing through the text boxes on the left, there is a disconnect between the display and the tab order. Tabbing from intelligence skips over spirit and goes down to spellpower. Nothing that prevents usage of the tool, just a minor bug.
#818SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
I didn't read the whole thread so I am sorry if this is a repost, but I noticed that Thundering Strikes talent was not listed, is it assumed 5/5 or just missing? Or did you intentionally exclude it due to it affecting the paper doll crit stats?
#819SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
It appears on the paper-doll stats wich you have to input so no point in inlcuding it.
#820SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paksenarrion
Ok sorry if some of this has been answered. But i do not get a sim etc to work. And just have a few questions that some of you more capable could answer, if you dont mind

I was under the impression that Slow/Slow with WF/WF was still the way to go or is Slow/Fast with WF/FT better now due to Elemental Fury
#821SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Paksenarrion View Post
Ok sorry if some of this has been answered. But i do not get a sim etc to work. And just have a few questions that some of you more capable could answer, if you dont mind

I was under the impression that Slow/Slow with WF/WF was still the way to go or is Slow/Fast with WF/FT better now due to Elemental Fury
Please learn to use search or read the Think Tank article where this has been covered in great detail. This thread is definitely NOT the place to ask such questions.
#822SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paradox
Hi

I'm just wondering why I have such high EP values for INT, is it supposed to be this high and can anyone explain why?

Here is my config file:

race                 tauren
mh_speed             2.60
oh_speed             2.50
mh_dps               143.5 # unable to read weapon dps please check
oh_dps               143.6 # unable to read weapon dps please check
mh_crit              23.27
oh_crit              23.27
mh_hit               11.77
oh_hit               11.77
mh_expertise_rating  102.00
oh_expertise_rating  102.00
ap                   3073
haste                2.41
armor_penetration    3.44
str                  133
agi                  629
int                  452
spi                  153
spellpower           980
spell_crit           17.71
spell_hit            14.71
max_mana             10896
mp5                  0
mh_imbue             windfury
oh_imbue             windfury

mh_enchant           mongoose
mh_weapon            -
oh_enchant           mongoose
oh_weapon            -

trinket1             meteorite_whetstone
trinket2             sphere_of_red_dragons_blood

totem                stonebreakers_totem
set_bonus            - ## not currently available in the addon export
metagem              relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1         windfury_weapon
glyph_major2         earth_shock
glyph_major3         stormstrike
glyph_major4         - ## slot empty

glyph_minor1         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor2         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor3         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim

ancestral_knowledge       5/5
improved_shields          0/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         1/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            5/5
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      2/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                2/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             0/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             0/5
elemental_focus           1/1
elemental_fury            3/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm        0/5
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/5
lava_flows                0/3
storm_earth_and_fire      0/5
It's giving me normal looking values for all stats but INT it's giving me 4-5.5 EP.

Also, just want to say the simulator is looking for sphere_of_the_red_dragons_blood but ShockAndAwe is exporting it as sphere_of_red_dragons_blood.

Also, when I export from SAA, I have a question about these fields:

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue windfury

the "oh_imbue" field is always left empty even when enchanted ingame, am I supposed to manually edit this after exporting and add windfury or flametongue? or do I leave it blank? Obviously the logical thing to do is add the imbue manually but I can't see why it doesn't just export that for no good reason.

Thanks
#823SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Hi

I'm just wondering why I have such high EP values for INT, is it supposed to be this high and can anyone explain why?
You have it simulating mana and you don't have a deep enough mana pool to sustain full bore dps between Shamanistic Rages. That means you are having "downtime" where you are waiting for SR to be up and are doing nothing but autoattacking. Increasing the amount of Int you have decreases the "downtime" which is a substantial dps increase and the reason Intellect is giving such high EP values.

Edited to add:

Tukez could you check how you have the Stonebreaker Totem coded in the sim, since it seems to be giving the totem too much uptime currently.

The totem has a 10 second cooldown with a 50% proc rate so the buff can't refresh itself and giving it roughly a 45% uptime if you are shocking on every cooldown.

Last edited by Rouncer : 11/28/08 at 9:27 AM.
#824SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3darkInertia
Please correct my math if I'm wrong (been a while since prob & stat). For stonebreaker totem, assuming 1) no points in reverberation, 2) spell hit cap and 3) you're shocking every cooldon, we have 6 sec shock cooldown and a 10 sec buff duration.

To determine the uptime, let us assume that are at shock n, where we are shocking and have shocked at least one time previously.

Let us look at whether stonebreaker proc the shock before (at shock n-1):
1) if it did (50% chance), then the current shock n isn't checked b/c of the internal cooldown. In addition, because of the timing, we will have the buff for only 4 sec out of 6 sec (time until the next shock)

2) if it didn't (1-0.5) then we can check the proc normally for the our shock n.

2a) it procs (0.5) then we have 6 sec out of 6 sec of the buff

2b) or it doesn't proc and we don't get the buff

So our uptime is equal to:

case 1 + case 2a
0.5 * 4/6 + (1-0.5) * 0.5 * 6/6
= 0.583
#825SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by darkInertia View Post
Please correct my math if I'm wrong (been a while since prob & stat). For stonebreaker totem, assuming 1) no points in reverberation, 2) spell hit cap and 3) you're shocking every cooldon, we have 6 sec shock cooldown and a 10 sec buff duration.

To determine the uptime, let us assume that are at shock n, where we are shocking and have shocked at least one time previously.

Let us look at whether stonebreaker proc the shock before (at shock n-1):
1) if it did (50% chance), then the current shock n isn't checked b/c of the internal cooldown. In addition, because of the timing, we will have the buff for only 4 sec out of 6 sec (time until the next shock)

2) if it didn't (1-0.5) then we can check the proc normally for the our shock n.

2a) it procs (0.5) then we have 6 sec out of 6 sec of the buff

2b) or it doesn't proc and we don't get the buff

So our uptime is equal to:

case 1 + case 2a
0.5 * 4/6 + (1-0.5) * 0.5 * 6/6
= 0.583
I have no idea if your math is right or not, I was going by what I saw on Patchwerk and other fights to estimate the uptime, from looking at the numbers from the Sim I think Tukez is using your uptime for the totem but my experience has it as lower then that.
#826SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mindrila
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Hi

I'm just wondering why I have such high EP values for INT, is it supposed to be this high and can anyone explain why?

Here is my config file:

--snip--

Also, when I export from SAA, I have a question about these fields:

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue windfury

the "oh_imbue" field is always left empty even when enchanted ingame, am I supposed to manually edit this after exporting and add windfury or flametongue? or do I leave it blank? Obviously the logical thing to do is add the imbue manually but I can't see why it doesn't just export that for no good reason.

Thanks
ShockAndAwe uses the configured imbues in the export, so you have to set it in the SAA Config.

The problem with your high INT value could also be related to 0 mp5 in your config.
#827SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Enhsim 1.4.6

1.4.6
-Removed lvl 70. enhsim.exe is not for level 80.
-Fixed bug when spirit EP calculation was disabled, intelligence EP value was broken.
-arcane_resistance and shadow_resistance added to boss stats.
-Added trinkets: Mark of Norgannon, Fezzik's Pocketwatch, Thorny Rose Brooch, Rune of Finite Variation, Bandit's Insignia, Darkmoon Card: Greatness, Pendulum of Telluric Currents, Vestige of Haldor and Figurine: Twilight Serpent.
-Renamed sphere_of_the_red_dragons_blood to sphere_of_red_dragons_blood.
-Added totems: Savage, Hateful and Deadly Gladiator's Totem of Indomitability/Survival, Totem of Dueling and Totem of the Elemental Plane.
-Added consumables: Elixir of Mighty Thoughts, Elixir of Expertise, Flask of Endless Rage, Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak and Fish Feast.
-Enchant added: Berserking.

Berserking is 1ppm. I think Stonebreaker's Totem is working right. Those damage proc trinkets are affected by resistances and buffs/debuffs, 1.5 crit multiplier.

I updated my VC++ to SP1. If GUI doesn't work, you might have to update the redistributable:
Download details: Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)
#828SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
-Fixed bug when spirit EP calculation was disabled, intelligence EP value was broken.
I just updated the sim and still got this error.
#829SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
I just updated the sim and still got this error.
Are you sure you are using the new executable, not the old enhsim_lvl80.exe? I don't seem to get the error. If you are using the new one, please post the configs and results to reproduce the error.
#830SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Are you sure you are using the new executable, not the old enhsim_lvl80.exe? I don't seem to get the error. If you are using the new one, please post the configs and results to reproduce the error.
Yeah that was it, sorry.
#831SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Karok(EU)
Some of the default buffs are still at their lvl 70 values:

Major armor: 3925
Minor armor: 1260
motw: +37
AI: 60

Might have missed some still.

Although I guess we'd first need to know the new boss armor values before using the new armor debuffs.

Expertise still shows odd behavour though. Filling in 202 expertise rating (-6% dodge/parry) shows no warning at an EP range of 1, but shows one for 2 (which would make 204 be over the cap?).

No other source of expertise either.
This is still 10 expertise off the actual cap (214 rating giving -6.5).
In your previous answer you kind of omited the actual problem, since as long as you are not capped the sim shows the warning way too early even with EP values that would not go over the cap in the first step atleast (or does it take the first 6+ steps to check?)
#832SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hulk
I have been using the enhsim and i input my values

armory link The World of Warcraft Armory

EP value DPS total DPS difference

baseline 1319.29
ap 1.00 0.19 1327.03 7.74
crit rating 1.89 0.37 1326.62 7.34
hit rating 2.50 0.48 1328.96 9.67
expertise rating 2.22 0.43 1329.87 10.58
haste rating 1.38 0.27 1324.63 5.34
armor pen 0.99 0.19 1323.13 3.85
spellpower 0.82 0.16 1323.09 3.80
mh dps 7.14 1.38 1329.65 10.36
oh dps 2.88 0.56 1323.47 4.18
strength 1.00
agility 1.69
intelligence 2.93
spirit 0.80 0.16 1334.82 15.53
mana 0.10 0.02 1323.08 3.80
mp5 7.14 1.38 1346.95 27.66


Now i thought once i get to 367 hit rating which is the cap, i should move on to Expertise, but the sim still has Hit rating as a higher EP value. Why would this be? Im currently at 401 hit.
#833SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kamileon
Originally Posted by Hulk View Post

Now i thought once i get to 367 hit rating which is the cap, i should move on to Expertise, but the sim still has Hit rating as a higher EP value. Why would this be? Im currently at 401 hit.
Because that's the spell hit cap, not the be all end all cap for hit rating. Dual-Wield melee still benefits from more hit. Hit won't hit zero ep at spell hit caps the same way expertise will.
#834SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Kamileon View Post
Because that's the spell hit cap, not the be all end all cap for hit rating. Dual-Wield melee still benefits from more hit. Hit won't hit zero ep at spell hit caps the same way expertise will.
Yeah but the EP of hit should drop significantly after the spell hit cap. (from somewhere over 2.5 to somewhere less than 2)


Edit: The baseline dps of that sim run was only 1300?? Why is it so low? Are you just auto-attacking or what?
#835SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Karok(EU) View Post
Expertise still shows odd behavour though. Filling in 202 expertise rating (-6% dodge/parry) shows no warning at an EP range of 1, but shows one for 2 (which would make 204 be over the cap?).

No other source of expertise either.
This is still 10 expertise off the actual cap (214 rating giving -6.5).
In your previous answer you kind of omited the actual problem, since as long as you are not capped the sim shows the warning way too early even with EP values that would not go over the cap in the first step atleast (or does it take the first 6+ steps to check?)
EP range is expertise, not expertise rating.
#836SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
Now i thought once i get to 367 hit rating which is the cap, i should move on to Expertise, but the sim still has Hit rating as a higher EP value. Why would this be? Im currently at 401 hit.
No once you hit the specials cap (99 hit rating) you should move onto expertise, then once you hit the expertise cap you should move onto spell hit cap (which you have passed). Remember that hit also affects melee hit so its still good, just not as good as it was before. The sim does seem to accurately reflect this.

I'll update this post when I've updated ShockAndAwe to understand the new trinkets etc added in this sim version.
#837SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
Now i thought once i get to 367 hit rating which is the cap, i should move on to Expertise, but the sim still has Hit rating as a higher EP value. Why would this be? Im currently at 401 hit.
Got Misery/Improved Faerie Fire tagged as a raid buff? My bet is that should be it.

On another related note, I currently have 367 hit rating, and this shows on my paper doll as 13.99% spell hit, haven't really been able to test correctly if I still have a chance to miss with spells. Wondering if this is just a rounding/display error on the dumb character screen now though.
#838SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SoBlù
One little problem with EhnSim.

-Enchant added: Berserking.

Doesn't realy work for me. Always shows:

Enchant berserking not found.
Enchant berserking not found.
.........................................................................

Anyone else having the same problem?
#839SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by SoBlù View Post
One little problem with EhnSim.

-Enchant added: Berserking.

Doesn't realy work for me. Always shows:

Enchant berserking not found.
Enchant berserking not found.
.........................................................................

Anyone else having the same problem?
You are using old executable.
#840SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hulk
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post

Edit: The baseline dps of that sim run was only 1300?? Why is it so low? Are you just auto-attacking or what?
No i have it as a rotation, i wondered the same thing when i looked at it.

#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			2500 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				0	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				0	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			1	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				40
ep_crit_rating 			20
ep_hit_rating 			20
ep_expertise 			3 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	20
ep_spellpower 			24
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				200
ep_spirit			100
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		2	//{ 0 | 1 | 2 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		4
rotation_priority1		SS
rotation_priority2		ES
rotation_priority3		LL
rotation_priority4		MW5_LB
rotation_priority5		-
rotation_priority6		-
rotation_priority7		-



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				9.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			25.00	//%
armor				7700	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		0/2600		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0/610		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	0.0/2.0		//%, bloody frenzy, 2nd talent spec TBA
melee_haste_buff		0.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		0/306		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	0.0/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	0.0/10.0	//%, improved scorch, winter's chill
spell_damage_debuff		0.0/10.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of elements, totem of wrath
spellpower_buff			0/150		//focus magic, improved divine spirit, flametongue totem, demonic pact
spell_hit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			0.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	0.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath
stat_multiplier			0.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			0/19		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		0/98		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			0/40		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			-
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength | - }

guardian_elixir			-
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | - }

potion				-
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				-
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | - }

misc_item			-
// { drums_of_battle | - }





###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race				orc	//{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed			2.60
oh_speed			2.50
mh_dps				143.5
oh_dps				143.6
mh_crit				18.52	//%
oh_crit				18.52	
mh_hit				12.23	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit				12.23
mh_expertise_rating		70	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating		70
ap				2984	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
haste				1.16	//%
armor_penetration		5.26	//%
str				131
agi				629
int				533
spi				154
spellpower			1169	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit			13.45	//%
spell_hit			15.29	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
max_mana			12111
mp5				0	//in combat

mh_imbue	 		windfury
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | - }

mh_enchant			mongoose
oh_enchant			-
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | - }

mh_weapon			axe
oh_weapon			axe
//{ axe | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			sphere_of_red_dragons_blood
trinket2			incisor_fragment
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  abacus_of_violent_odds | badge_of_tenacity |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | fury_of_the_five_flights |
//  grim_toll | loathebs_shadow | mirror_of_truth | 
//  the_skull_of_guldan | meteorite_whetstone | embrace_of_the_spider |
//  dying curse | illustration_of_the_dragon_soul |
//  sundial_of_the_exiled | forge_ember | incisor_fragment |
//  mark_of_the_war_prisoner | sphere_of_the_red_dragons_blood |
//  tome_of_arcane_phenomena | - }

totem				totem_of_splintering
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | totem_of_splintering |
//  totem_of_ancestral_guidance | totem_of_the_void | skycall_totem | 
//  totem_of_hex | - }

set_bonus			-
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness | desolation_battlegear |
//  skyshatter_harness_2 | skyshatter_harness_4 | skyshatter_regalia_2 |
//  skyshatter_regalia_4 | naxx_melee_2 | naxx_melee_4 | gladiators_earthshaker |
//  naxx_nuker_2 | naxx_nuker_4 | - }

metagem				-
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | 
//  chaotic_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyflare_diamond |
//  ember_skyflare_diamond | relentless_earthsiege_diamond | - }

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			windfury_weapon
glyph_major2			lava_lash
glyph_major3			stormstrike
glyph_major4			-
//{ lightning_shield | flametongue_weapon | lightning_bolt |
//  windfury_weapon | stormstrike | earth_shock | lava | lava_lash |
//  water_mastery | - }

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-



#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		5/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		0/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			4/5
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			0/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			4/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			5/5
call_of_flame			2/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			1/1
elemental_fury			5/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/5
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/5
#841SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
No i have it as a rotation, i wondered the same thing when i looked at it.
You don't have Shamanistic Rage in rotation. Also might be missing Searing Totem. I noticed I didn't fix sphere_of_red_dragons_blood in the GUI. Until I fix it, you have to manually type it to the combo box there. Gui has sphere_of_the_red_dragons_blood and enhsim.exe is looking for sphere_of_red_dragons_blood.

Btw, what is the coef of Searing Totem? TT thread says it's 16.8%, but some other sources say 8%.
#842SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hulk
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
You don't have Shamanistic Rage in rotation.
Should that be the first thing i use in a DPS rotation?

I usually do SS, ES, LL and LB if Malestrom Wep is up, And pop SR when i need mana back.

Is there a better rotation to do this or what?
#843SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Utters
Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
Should that be the first thing i use in a DPS rotation?

I usually do SS, ES, LL and LB if Malestrom Wep is up, And pop SR when i need mana back.

Is there a better rotation to do this or what?
That is only in relation to the sim. In actual play you should SR at sub 1k mana, MW_5/ES and then check SS/LL. Neither needs pref between SS or LL except to keep the SS debuff up.
#844SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eva
Does the program support "ring procs" such as Signet of Edward the Odd in any way?

Assuming a 45 sec internal cooldown, the proc would be worth about 41 haste rating. Would it suffice to just add 41 haste rating into the sim, when comparing different gear-setups?
#845SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Radditz
why get expertise and hit this high values with my current gear? and ARP negative?
using the latest 1.46. im hitcapped (melee: 11.38% spell 14.22%) and over the half exp cap (115)
ap                        1.00
crit rating               2.76
hit rating                3.15
expertise rating          4.00
haste rating              2.25
armor penetration rating  -0.09
spellpower                1.05
mh dps                    8.98
oh dps                    1.39
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.06
intelligence              1.05
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         4
min_lag                         60
max_lag                         120
simulate_mana                   0

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              0/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          143.6
oh_dps                          130.2
mh_crit                         23.10
oh_crit                         23.10
mh_hit                          11.38
oh_hit                          11.38
mh_expertise_rating             115
oh_expertise_rating             115
ap                              2942
haste                           0.12
armor_penetration               1.69
str                             129
agi                             624
int                             338
spi                             153
spellpower                      882
spell_crit                      16.92
spell_hit                       14.22
max_mana                        9186
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        -

totem                           totem_of_splintering

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    earth_shock

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#846SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eva
Originally Posted by Radditz View Post
why get expertise and hit this high values with my current gear? and ARP negative?
using the latest 1.46. im hitcapped (melee: 11.38% spell 14.22%) and over the half exp cap (115)
You used the total expertise from gear, not the expertise rating. It should be a value between 0 and 26 (the cap).
#847SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Eva View Post
You used the total expertise from gear, not the expertise rating. It should be a value between 0 and 26 (the cap).

No, they inputted it correctly, they just need a lot more expertise which is also pushing up the value of hit since even though they are over the spell hit cap they are under the melee hit cap and if you don't hit the target you don't get MW charges and your dps suffers accordingly.
#848SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eva
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
No, they inputted it correctly, they just need a lot more expertise which is also pushing up the value of hit since even though they are over the spell hit cap they are under the melee hit cap and if you don't hit the target you don't get MW charges and your dps suffers accordingly.
I stand corrected: the wow-armory and the paper doll in game both have a different opinion about what rating is.
#849SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Eva View Post
I stand corrected: the wow-armory and the paper doll in game both have a different opinion about what rating is.
It's just how Tukez has the Sim setup that can be a little confusing and it's a holdover from when there needed to be a level 70 and a level 80 version (also if people input values for expertise rating that weren't enough to hit a new rank of expertise the stat could end up being undervalued). So we input rating into the character stats but use real expertise values for the EP calculations. The 4 expertise they used translates to 32.79 expertise rating.


Expertise is one of the more annoying stats since it only works in very specific chunks. They have 115 rating which works out to 14 expertise. Now lets say they change their glove enchant (just for an example, I didn't use the armory) to the 15 expertise one, that puts them at 130 rating which would be 15.86 expertise, however due to the nature of expertise they really only have 15 expertise and the remaining 0.86 (7 expertise rating) does absolutely nothing at all since expertise rating always "rounds down".
#850SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Unclejesse
With 192 expertise rating (23 exp), the sim is telling me I am over the cap. AFAIK, the cap is 26, so why am I getting this message?
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_CL
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         26.37
oh_crit                         26.37
mh_hit                          8.11
oh_hit                          8.11
mh_expertise_rating             192
oh_expertise_rating             192
ap                              3238
haste                           5.49
armor_penetration               3.70
str                             123
agi                             679
int                             367
spi                             145
spellpower                      971
spell_crit                      19.71
spell_hit                       10.14
max_mana                        10000
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        sphere_of_the_red_dragons_blood
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         chaotic_skyfire_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lava_lash

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#851SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
hozzer
With 192 expertise rating (23 exp), the sim is telling me I am over the cap. AFAIK, the cap is 26, so why am I getting this message?
ep_expertise                    4
Because this puts you at 27 expertise when calculating it's EP. Change to 2 or 3 and you should be fine.

edit - explained more thoroughly by Rounced below.

Last edited by hozzer : 12/02/08 at 1:02 PM.
#852SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Unclejesse View Post
With 192 expertise rating (23 exp), the sim is telling me I am over the cap. AFAIK, the cap is 26, so why am I getting this message?

The error message is that your EP value for expertise goes over the cap. EP works by adding the specified value to your stats and looking at the dps change. You specified 4 expertise for the EP calculations which is 32.79 expertise rating, so adding that to your 192 expertise rating brings you to 224.79 rating or 27.42 expertise which is over the cap.

edit - beaten by Hozzer
#853SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Unclejesse
Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification.
#854SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Idk
Bug report:

I'm having a problem where anytime I involve MWx_yy (any iteration of 1-5 for x and CL or LB for yy) in the simulator, the simulator appears to build up to 5 charges of maelstrom at which point it simply fails to do anything else. The resulting report shows just a few seconds worth of combat data even though the simulator runs to the end of the cycle. The example I'm providing is stripped down to provide a readable combatlog. If I set bloodlust_casters to 2 you'll see bloodlusts going up and fading for the entire 5 hour simulation window.

If I remove the MWx_yy listing from the rotation, the simulator works just fine.

I first experienced this problem trying to run the precompiled enhsim.exe using DarwineHelper. I figured it was a problem with darwine or some other platform issue. I built enhsim from source using boost and ZThreads on an i586 linux box and I'm seeing the exact same behavior that I saw under Darwine on OSX.

I suspect it may have to do with the double global cooldown entry at this point in the combat log:

0h 0m 8.68s Maelstrom Weapon stacks (5)
0h 0m 9.13s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 9.13s Casting started
0h 0m 9.13s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 10.66s Global cooldown off

Unfortunately, my c++ skills are nearly non-existent. I've done my best to try to diagnose the problem but I just can't read the code well enough to know where to start diddling.

I searched the thread for anyone else experiencing this issue.. I saw that Krish encountered something similar weeks ago but I didn't see any resolution to that issue.

I built enhsim using the Enhsim 1.4.6 source.

The configuration:

simulation_time                 1
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    1
threads                         2
min_lag                         20
max_lag                         80
simulate_mana                   0

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               0
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00

arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

armor_debuff_major              0/2600
armor_debuff_minor              0/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                0.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0.0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/19
agi_and_strength_buff           0/98
intellect_buff                  0/40

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.6
mh_crit                         18.52
oh_crit                         18.52
mh_hit                          12.23
oh_hit                          12.23
mh_expertise_rating             70
oh_expertise_rating             70
ap                              2984
haste                           1.16
armor_penetration               5.26
str                             131
agi                             629
int                             533
spi                             154
spellpower                      1169
spell_crit                      13.45
spell_hit                       15.29
max_mana                        12111
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        -
trinket2                        -

totem                           -

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    lava_lash
glyph_major3                    stormstrike
glyph_major4                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
The output:

MH:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            0              0.00%
hit                 4              80.00%
crit                1              20.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.67%
procs/swings        16.67%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

OH:
miss                1              20.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2              40.00%
hit                 2              40.00%
crit                0              0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 6              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 0              0.00%
crit                1              100.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 0.02

flurry uptime                  101.98%
unleashed rage uptime          0.08%
elemental devastation uptime   0.00%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              0.00%
oh enchant uptime              0.00%
trinket1 uptime                0.00%
trinket2 uptime                0.00%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                   MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      nan%
mp5                 0.00      nan%
replenishment       0.00      nan%
unrelenting storm   0.00      nan%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      nan%
shamanistic rage    0.00      nan%
mana potion         0.00      nan%
misc potion         0.00      nan%

                   DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               0.30      34.77%    0.03
windfury            0.15      17.33%    0.00
flametongue         0.10      11.82%    0.02
stormstrike         0.06      6.5%      0.00      0.02      27.37%
lava lash           0.05      5.54%     0.00      0.01      13.68%
earth shock         0.21      24.04%    0.01      0.04      58.95%

DPS                 0.87
MPS                 0.07
MP2min              8.05
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5.00h
elapsed real time: 0.00s
simulation speed: -2147483648x
The combatlog:

0h 0m 0s        MH SS hit 689.589
0h 0m 0s        Maelstrom Weapon stacks (1)
0h 0m 0s        OH SS hit 331.626
0h 0m 0s        OH Flametongue hit 306.578
0h 0m 0s        MH hit 689.589
0h 0m 0s        OH hit 331.626
0h 0m 0s        OH Flametongue hit 306.578
0h 0m 1.54s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 1.54s     Earth shock hit 1866.05
0h 0m 2.47s     OH glancing 232.138
0h 0m 2.47s     OH Flametongue hit 306.578
0h 0m 2.57s     MH hit 689.589
0h 0m 3.09s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 3.09s     Lava Lash crit 870.207
0h 0m 3.09s     OH Flametongue hit 306.578
0h 0m 3.09s     Flurry procs
0h 0m 3.09s     Unleashed Rage procs
0h 0m 4.52s     OH glancing 246.038
0h 0m 4.52s     OH Flametongue hit 315.325
0h 0m 4.61s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 4.67s     MH hit 730.892
0h 0m 4.67s     Maelstrom Weapon stacks (2)
0h 0m 6.42s     OH hit 351.483
0h 0m 6.42s     OH Flametongue hit 315.325
0h 0m 6.42s     Flurry fades
0h 0m 6.71s     MH crit 1461.78
0h 0m 6.71s     Flurry procs
0h 0m 7.6s      Earth shock hit 1911.43
0h 0m 8.39s     OH miss
0h 0m 8.68s     MH hit 730.892
0h 0m 8.68s     MH WF hit 1361.49
0h 0m 8.68s     Maelstrom Weapon stacks (3)
0h 0m 8.68s     MH WF hit 1361.49
0h 0m 8.68s     Maelstrom Weapon stacks (4)
0h 0m 8.68s     Maelstrom Weapon stacks (5)
0h 0m 9.13s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 9.13s     Casting started
0h 0m 9.13s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 10.66s    Global cooldown off
0h 0m 16.71s    Unleashed Rage fades
0h 0m 38.68s    Maelstrom Weapon fades
Is this a known problem? What do you recommend that I try?

Thank you in advance!
#855SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Honuk
Is anyone else getting spell damage values high enough to give some interesting results when EP values are plugged into something like lootrank? I know that during the beta one of Blizzard's goals was to make enhance shamans less likely to be interested in caster gear, but that hasn't really been born out for me. I get a spell power value of 1.1, which makes a fair amount of caster gear very desirable, especially cloaks, necks and, yes, main hand weapons. Sim plus loot rank are, in fact, giving me 25 man Kel'Thuzad's healing mace as the best weapon in the game. I ran the sim with that weapons stats over the stats of my current main hand (greed), and came out with a 150 dps increase. Is this normal? And if it is, shouldn't something be done about it?
#856SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3frozndevl
Originally Posted by Honuk View Post
Is anyone else getting spell damage values high enough to give some interesting results when EP values are plugged into something like lootrank? I know that during the beta one of Blizzard's goals was to make enhance shamans less likely to be interested in caster gear, but that hasn't really been born out for me. I get a spell power value of 1.1, which makes a fair amount of caster gear very desirable, especially cloaks, necks and, yes, main hand weapons. Sim plus loot rank are, in fact, giving me 25 man Kel'Thuzad's healing mace as the best weapon in the game. I ran the sim with that weapons stats over the stats of my current main hand (greed), and came out with a 150 dps increase. Is this normal? And if it is, shouldn't something be done about it?
Show us your config file so we can take a look at it. It may just be an errant value mucking up the works.
#857SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Utters
Originally Posted by Honuk View Post
Is anyone else getting spell damage values high enough to give some interesting results when EP values are plugged into something like lootrank? I know that during the beta one of Blizzard's goals was to make enhance shamans less likely to be interested in caster gear, but that hasn't really been born out for me. I get a spell power value of 1.1, which makes a fair amount of caster gear very desirable, especially cloaks, necks and, yes, main hand weapons. Sim plus loot rank are, in fact, giving me 25 man Kel'Thuzad's healing mace as the best weapon in the game. I ran the sim with that weapons stats over the stats of my current main hand (greed), and came out with a 150 dps increase. Is this normal? And if it is, shouldn't something be done about it?
Were you putting in a weight for wep speed and dps? I would assume no and as you know caster weps have all kinds of stats on them while melee ones are lacking. So that is the most likely culprit of the MH wep debacle. Also caster neck, ring and trinket's are often weighted high if they are high in hit and crit. And that weight seems normal for spell power, mine is 1.04 for comparison.
#858SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Honuk
I did have weights for damage and speed inputed, yes. I could see some speed bug throwing off some of those weapon values, but the wraith strike is 2.60 speed; no amount of number fiddling is going to stop that from being a top three weapon for me.

I also tested double flametongue with a caster main hand and got comparable dps to WF/FT with any weapon combo you could care to name.
#859SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Darkclaw
any chance of getting a bit more setup by step xCode setup and build help?

the info I read so far is still rather out there for a code noob...
#860SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Acks
I was able to get a WWS parse of my Patchwerk combat logs from last night and compare the simulator with a real world example.

The simulator is giving me ~4700 dps estimates (I can post the config file when i get home if it is warranted).
Patchwerk shows me at ~3880 dps. So my concern is that if the simulator is off by ~20 percent, could this skew EP weights when I calculate them? And a bigger question would be: Are others seeing such large discrepancies between the sim and actual boss encounters?

Possibilities: Patchwerk armor/mitigation is different than stated in sim, the sim is off, WWS/recount are off, my raid mates were terrible at putting up buffs and/or I got extremely unlucky with crits.

My WWS
#861SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rako
Originally Posted by Honuk View Post
Is anyone else getting spell damage values high enough to give some interesting results when EP values are plugged into something like lootrank? I know that during the beta one of Blizzard's goals was to make enhance shamans less likely to be interested in caster gear, but that hasn't really been born out for me. I get a spell power value of 1.1, which makes a fair amount of caster gear very desirable, especially cloaks, necks and, yes, main hand weapons. Sim plus loot rank are, in fact, giving me 25 man Kel'Thuzad's healing mace as the best weapon in the game. I ran the sim with that weapons stats over the stats of my current main hand (greed), and came out with a 150 dps increase. Is this normal? And if it is, shouldn't something be done about it?
I'm getting similar numbers. Right now SP is 1.22 and Int is 1.43 EP from the sim. Alot of the caster rings and necks are looking very good. Also several of the 2.5+ speed caster weapons. When running the sim over 50% of my damage is from spells. Maybe with more Naxx gear the scaling will go back toward AP. Also if Blizzard does increase the scaling on LB and make Manga totem tick for alot more then we will be doing even more spell damage. I know MT is costly for mana, but this week was my first 25 man Naxx run and I didnt need SR on a single fight, so the mana is thier, for me at least.

Last edited by Rako : 12/03/08 at 2:57 PM.
#862SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Rako View Post
I'm getting similar numbers. Right now SP is 1.22 and Int is 1.43 EP from the sim. Alot of the caster rings and necks are looking very good. Also several of the 2.5+ speed caster weapons. When running the sim over 50% of my damage is from spells. Maybe with more Naxx gear the scaling will go back toward AP. Also if Blizzard does increase the scaling on LB and make Manga totem tick for alot more then we will be doing even more spell damage. I know MT is costly for mana, but this week was my first 25 mana Naxx run and I didnt need SR on a single fight, so the mana is thier, for me at least.
Fast offhand favors higher spell damage values.

Caster rings and necks will always look good even when your gear gets better and you replace that offhand with a real enhancement weapon (slow/slow always and forever or until Blizzard makes it not so). But melee has some damn nice alternatives that are complete crap for casters so leave the rings and necks to the casters unless they are going to rot.

Spellpower runs about 0.9 value for me and Intellect is about 1.5 (gets 1.1AP from talents+kings and then there is the spell crit and increased mana pool to take into account as well) so your values aren't that far off.


Originally Posted by Acks View Post
I was able to get a WWS parse of my Patchwerk combat logs from last night and compare the simulator with a real world example.

The simulator is giving me ~4700 dps estimates (I can post the config file when i get home if it is warranted).
Patchwerk shows me at ~3880 dps. So my concern is that if the simulator is off by ~20 percent, could this skew EP weights when I calculate them? And a bigger question would be: Are others seeing such large discrepancies between the sim and actual boss encounters?

Possibilities: Patchwerk armor/mitigation is different than stated in sim, the sim is off, WWS/recount are off, my raid mates were terrible at putting up buffs and/or I got extremely unlucky with crits.

My WWS
I get ~4600 from the sim and this weeks Patchwerk I ran 4300 dps so I consider the sim working as intended.

Was your raid fully optimized?

MMO-Champion RaidComp

If you are missing some buffs that you used in the sim or the buffs you used in the sim are of a greater value then you actually had it could easily cost you that much dps.


Edit - checked your parse and you are missing an Elemental Shaman or a Moonkin so you are losing the Spell Crit buff and a bunch of spellpower (assuming your resto shaman was dropping Flametongue so that you were in range of the totem) since there was no Totem of Wrath present.

Uncheck your Spell crit chance buff and change your Spellpower buff to whatever you were getting from Flametongue or from Demonic Pact (whichever is higher) since the default setting is for 280 which you only get from Totem of Wrath. So that would be a loss of 5% spell crit and probably 130 spellpower which should account for the difference seen between the parse and your sim results.

Also keep in mind that the Sim is perfect play, something that we all strive to emulate but that is basically impossible to obtain, that said also make sure that you are setting some latency into your settings since the default is 0 and no one ever gets to raid without any latency.

Last edited by Rouncer : 12/03/08 at 3:15 PM.
#863SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rako
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Fast offhand favors higher spell damage values.

Caster rings and necks will always look good even when your gear gets better and you replace that offhand with a real enhancement weapon (slow/slow always and forever or until Blizzard makes it not so). But melee has some damn nice alternatives that are complete crap for casters so leave the rings and necks to the casters unless they are going to rot.

Spellpower runs about 0.9 value for me and Intellect is about 1.5 (gets 1.1AP from talents+kings and then there is the spell crit and increased mana pool to take into account as well) so your values aren't that far off.


I have ran sims and also used the test dumb and the 1.6 off-hand I'm using does alot more DPS then the slow off-hands I have access to. It will be replace as soon as I can, But even when I change the offhand speed to 2.6 in the sim, and leave all other number the same, I get very similar result: 1.18 SP and 1.35 Int. I dont plan on bidding on the cast items yet, but the fact that caster gear is as good and in some cases better then Melee gear is something we need to keep an eye on. One thing I have noticed is that ArP is pretty crappy for us and the stat is on a lot gear. While caster gear (DPS) dont waste points on stuff we dont need. I dont think AP is weighted the same way as SP on gear so should get more AP on items then they have SP for now.
#864SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Rako View Post
I have ran sims and also used the test dumb and the 1.6 off-hand I'm using does alot more DPS then the slow off-hands I have access to. It will be replace as soon as I can, But even when I change the offhand speed to 2.6 in the sim, and leave all other number the same, I get very similar result: 1.18 SP and 1.35 Int. I dont plan on bidding on the cast items yet, but the fact that caster gear is as good and in some cases better then Melee gear is something we need to keep an eye on. One thing I have noticed is that ArP is pretty crappy for us and the stat is on a lot gear. While caster gear (DPS) dont waste points on stuff we dont need. I dont think AP is weighted the same way as SP on gear so should get more AP on items then they have SP for now.
ArP is a crappy raiding stat but it will be very good for PvP so I wouldn't worry about it. It's just that the stat has barely any scaling with the other armor penetration buffs so if the mob is completely sundered and fairy fired each point of AP is worth more damage since there is less armor but since ArP works off percentages there is suddenly less armor to remove so it has a lesser effect, so it scales badly.

The items are itemized correctly, it's just that spellpower has value for us and so does intellect and so does hit and crit and even haste so a caster item will have value and will be good but an item perfectly itemized for melee (without ArP) will end up being even better for us then an equivalent ilevel caster item.
#865SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rako
I know this line of questioning is really done to death, but the more I look over my logs the less Slow only in off-hand is really the end all. I know for SS and LL slow off hand helps.

My logs give SS 6.5% and LL 3.5% of my damage. 66% of the SS damage is from the main hand so 1/3 of that damage is from the off-hand. So off hand speed is affecting 6% of my total damage.

Even with a slow off hand we lose only 1/3 of that damage. That is from the medium damage of a 1.6 and a 2.6 speed weapon. Thats losing about 2-2.5% from a slow offhand. But now that we have FT in the off hand we gain about 1.5-2% from FT. I tested this in the sim and it seems my numbers are correct.

Thats a total lose of about 1%. 1% is still 1% so slow off-hand is better, but with only a 1% difference the stats on the weapon might be more important then the actually speed. For a quick test just lower you off-hand speed in the sim by 1 and see how close you are. It just seems to me that with all thing equal slow is better but since when is all things equal.
#866SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Rako View Post
I know this line of questioning is really done to death, but the more I look over my logs the less Slow only in off-hand is really the end all. I know for SS and LL slow off hand helps.

My logs give SS 6.5% and LL 3.5% of my damage. 66% of the SS damage is from the main hand so 1/3 of that damage is from the off-hand. So off hand speed is affecting 6% of my total damage.

Even with a slow off hand we lose only 1/3 of that damage. That is from the medium damage of a 1.6 and a 2.6 speed weapon. Thats losing about 2-2.5% from a slow offhand. But now that we have FT in the off hand we gain about 1.5-2% from FT. I tested this in the sim and it seems my numbers are correct.

Thats a total lose of about 1%. 1% is still 1% so slow off-hand is better, but with only a 1% difference the stats on the weapon might be more important then the actually speed. For a quick test just lower you off-hand speed in the sim by 1 and see how close you are. It just seems to me that with all thing equal slow is better but since when is all things equal.
The other aspect missing from this is that slower weapons result in more MW procs. All in all, this is the reason you should use the sim to test possible weapon upgrades, because it's just so much simpler than trying to pin down a consistent rule to follow.
#867SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
The other aspect missing from this is that slower weapons result in more MW procs. All in all, this is the reason you should use the sim to test possible weapon upgrades, because it's just so much simpler than trying to pin down a consistent rule to follow.

QFT

A 2.6 speed weapon has a 43% chance for a MW proc on every Lava Lash and Stormstrike hit while a 1.6 speed weapon will only have a 27% chance.

I played with the Sim for you about weapon speeds.

Starting with my base stats 2.5/2.5 (which should work out in your favor since they are a bit fast to begin with but they are all that RNG has given me so far) I get 4790dps. Changing Weapon speed on the offhand to 1.6, I get 4744 dps. Doesn't seem like much does it?

So then I changed the weapon speed back up to 2.5/2.5 and started playing with the offhand dps and to get an equivalent level of dps I dropped down to a 114dps weapon which gave me 4746dps. So for dps calculations for an offhand weapon a 114dps 2.5 speed weapon is equal to a 143.6dps 1.6 speed weapon.
#868SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vaeys
Originally Posted by Acks View Post
I was able to get a WWS parse of my Patchwerk combat logs from last night and compare the simulator with a real world example.

The simulator is giving me ~4700 dps estimates (I can post the config file when i get home if it is warranted).
Patchwerk shows me at ~3880 dps. So my concern is that if the simulator is off by ~20 percent, could this skew EP weights when I calculate them? And a bigger question would be: Are others seeing such large discrepancies between the sim and actual boss encounters?

Possibilities: Patchwerk armor/mitigation is different than stated in sim, the sim is off, WWS/recount are off, my raid mates were terrible at putting up buffs and/or I got extremely unlucky with crits.

My WWS
Make sure you're putting in the right armour value - when I re-downloaded the sim yesterday and starting fiddling with it, it had the boss AC at ~7k, not the ~13k it is in Wrath. (see one of the boss armour value threads)
#869SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Nevets_69
So as I'm looking to the future, and much needed weapon upgrades, I started sim'ing some of the different alternatives for off hand weapons. The general opinion is slow is better, but as I started looking closer, I noticed something peculiar, and I was hoping for a second opinion from the community.

Here is my config file. This is setup with my current stats, but I changed the main hand weapon DPS to match [Calamity's Grasp], and the off hand weapon DPS to 156.4 (a common value for a variety of possible off hands [Angry Dread],[Anarchy],[The Hand of Nerub],[Webbed Death]).

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         250
simulate_mana                   1

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    -16
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    9
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    200

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         29.94
oh_crit                         29.94
mh_hit                          11.38
oh_hit                          11.38
mh_expertise_rating             215.00
oh_expertise_rating             215.00
ap                              3476
haste                           2.10
armor_penetration               9.22
str                             139
agi                             775
int                             503
spi                             162
spellpower                      1042
spell_crit                      22.94
spell_hit                       14.22
max_mana                        11661
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      -

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        sphere_of_the_red_dragons_blood
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           -

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
So with the generally accepted theory is that slower is better. Unfortunately a 2.6s OH weapon with 156DPS is not available until Arena Season 5 begins. But here are the results since that is the base I started with:

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1626.88   37.78%    78.89
windfury            607.29    14.1%     6.50
flametongue         358.15    8.32%     48.97
stormstrike         286.31    6.65%     6.21      20.83     28.22%
lava lash           149.03    3.46%     6.99      8.45      11.44%
earth shock         444.00    10.31%    7.92      16.67     22.58%
lightning bolt      647.43    15.04%    8.09      27.88     37.76%
lightning shield    186.90    4.34%     8.60      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4306.00
MPS                 73.82
MP2min              8858.68
MRPS                73.62
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 16.36s
simulation speed: 1100311x
So I started looking at alternatives, and what I found was somewhat surprising.

Here is a summary of the results:

MH/OH         DPS
2.6/2.6        4306.00   <- Not available until Season 5 starts
2.6/2.5        4269.50
2.6/2.2        4260.30   <- Does not exist
2.6/2.0        4265.70   <- Does not exist
2.6/1.8        4271.90
2.6/1.6        4285.02
2.6/1.4        4312.88
So while the 2.6/2.6 setup does seem to be good, it isn't yet possible. Among the available alternatives, the faster the better.

Now I've noticed from sim'ing my gear repeatedly, that using 2.6 vs 2.5 speed weapons seems to land me on the endge of a haste rating plateau. That is, I get large values for haste when using 2.6 speed weapons, and near zero (or even negative) values when using 2.5 speed weapons.

Anyway, I was hoping that someone could take a look and either confirm these results or find a mistake that I've made.

Last edited by Nevets_69 : 12/04/08 at 3:14 AM.
#870SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Slainor
i think the Sim is correct cause the sim tells me i'm doing 5146 dps with no lag and in my last Patchwerk kill i did 5029 dps

Wow Web Stats

and here my gear The World of Warcraft Armory

sry for my bad english
#871SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Utters
Originally Posted by Slainor View Post
i think the Sim is correct cause the sim tells me i'm doing 5146 dps with no lag and in my last Patchwerk kill i did 5029 dps

Wow Web Stats

and here my gear The World of Warcraft Armory

sry for my bad english
I notice you are specced 3/3 imp shields over the 5th point in elemental fury and the point in elemental focus. Does this sim out higher for you? I am just curious to see what other people are getting out of the sim for best specs and that is one that I haven't seen yet.
#872SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Slainor
hm, i didn't sim this before but you're right with 2/3 imp shields and 5/5 elemental fury it's a dps gain by 50
#873SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Nevets_69 View Post
So while the 2.6/2.6 setup does seem to be good, it isn't yet possible. Among the available alternatives, the faster the better.

Now I've noticed from sim'ing my gear repeatedly, that using 2.6 vs 2.5 speed weapons seems to land me on the endge of a haste rating plateau. That is, I get large values for haste when using 2.6 speed weapons, and near zero (or even negative) values when using 2.5 speed weapons.

Anyway, I was hoping that someone could take a look and either confirm these results or find a mistake that I've made.
I appreciate all the work you've done with the post and I've tried to look for flaws in what you input into the sim or in your results and I can't really find any besides maybe that you haven't added any weapon enchants (guessing you are using a weapon chain or the 50AP enchants which is why nothing is selected since they would show on the paperdoll).

The results I posted above are also from the Sim so I'm not really sure what is going on except to suggest that we are a very complicated class and there are numerous levels of certain stats that can play havok with our expected results. Ask Toots about the haste plateus that occur when using WF only on the mainhand and you will see what I am talking about, or look back through this thread and see the shaman who was getting a huge EP value for +hit after the spell hit cap because he had so little expertise that anything that increased his melee hit rate was a huge boost.

We aren't simple to figure out and that is the thing I love the most about Enh Shaman theorycraft. All I can suggest is to use Rawr and the Sim to try and work out what is and what is not an upgrade ahead of time so you don't end up grabbing something that actually decreases your dps but that would have been an upgrade for someone else in your raid.
#874SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I appreciate all the work you've done with the post and I've tried to look for flaws in what you input into the sim or in your results and I can't really find any besides maybe that you haven't added any weapon enchants (guessing you are using a weapon chain or the 50AP enchants which is why nothing is selected since they would show on the paperdoll).
I actually have the 26agi enchant on my weapons for now. Waiting for something a little better before I get Berzerking since [Abyss Crystal] are so scarce for the time being.

Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
The results I posted above are also from the Sim so I'm not really sure what is going on except to suggest that we are a very complicated class and there are numerous levels of certain stats that can play havok with our expected results.
Yeah, as a side note, I am at the expertise and hit caps, and I get an EP of 3 for both hit and crit. My EP values don't change much at all as I vary weapon speeds. I was worried that switching to a faster offhand would seriously alter my EP values, but was pretty happy to see that it didn't.

Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Ask Toots about the haste plateus that occur when using WF only on the mainhand and you will see what I am talking about, or look back through this thread and see the shaman who was getting a huge EP value for +hit after the spell hit cap because he had so little expertise that anything that increased his melee hit rate was a huge boost.
Has this been discussed within this thread? I follow it pretty closely, but don't remember seeing any really conclusive results on the WF plateau. Guess I'll do a search, but a link would be appreciated.
#875SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Nevets_69 View Post

Has this been discussed within this thread? I follow it pretty closely, but don't remember seeing any really conclusive results on the WF plateau. Guess I'll do a search, but a link would be appreciated.
Shaman: Enhancement

Anyone found a situation yet where Stonebreakers totem is NOT better than level 80 relics?
#876SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3hozzer
It looks like the effects of haste (other than bloodlust) on the global cooldown are not currently being modeled. Can you confirm/deny this tukez? Thanks!

With 20% passive haste in the config for testing:
0h 0m 44.86s	Lightning Bolt hit 1663.67
0h 0m 45.88s	OH hit 303.679
0h 0m 45.88s	Shamanistic Rage procs 791.7
0h 0m 45.88s	Maelstrom Weapon stacks (1)
0h 0m 46.34s	MH crit 1263.3
0h 0m 46.37s	Global cooldown off
0h 0m 46.37s	Earth shock hit 1460.62
0h 0m 47.48s	OH miss
0h 0m 47.88s	Global cooldown off
#877SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Purges
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Shaman: Enhancement

Anyone found a situation yet where Stonebreakers totem is NOT better than level 80 relics?
I'm not sure if this was simply a rhetoric question or not. But Stonebreakers is coming out anywhere from 5DPS less to equal to the Totem of Dueling for me. And curiously, Totem of Hex is actually coming out about 10DPS higher than both of those in my simulations. I am currently running with Dueling though. Those are the only 3 I've tested so far as they are the only relics I posses. If this is an oddity, I'd be more than happy to post my code file.
#878SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
AeroByte
According to EhnSim i get less DPS using [Bandit's Insignia] than not using it (the procc). There's like 2-3 DKP difference, can anyone explain this?

Can't see how a damageprocc should lower my DPS.

Last edited by AeroByte : 12/04/08 at 4:12 PM.
#879SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Triper
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Shaman: Enhancement

Anyone found a situation yet where Stonebreakers totem is NOT better than level 80 relics?
According to my sims, Totem of Dueling is 20 DPS better than any other option available to me.

But in a real raid setting... I personally cannot tell the difference between any of them. :-/
#880SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by hozzer View Post
It looks like the effects of haste (other than bloodlust) on the global cooldown are not currently being modeled. Can you confirm/deny this tukez? Thanks!
Confirmed bug. Seems I broke it when I separated melee and spell haste rating. Good catch!

Originally Posted by AeroByte View Post
According to EhnSim i get less DPS using [Bandit's Insignia] than not using it (the procc). There's like 2-3 DKP difference, can anyone explain this?

Can't see how a damageprocc should lower my DPS.
Also a bug. Are you using Deathfrost also? That would explain the lower DPS as Bandit's Insignia was resetting misc damage every proc. I'll upload a new version later today.
#881SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Interesting, the sim was showing Dueling as being a significant drop in DPS. Must just be a gearing thing.
#882SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Utters
Elemental Plane
MH:
miss                2457123        10.42%
dodge               235829         1.00%
glancing            5886261        24.96%
hit                 4991331        21.17%
crit                10011637       42.45%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.24%
procs/swings        13.73%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               77230          1.02%
hit                 4326596        57.10%
crit                3173782        41.88%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               40022          1.00%
hit                 2289627        57.18%
crit                1674753        41.82%

OH:
miss                2556623        10.42%
dodge               245022         1.00%
glancing            6124556        24.95%
hit                 5194074        21.16%
crit                10422884       42.47%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 18757206       61.55%
crit                11718135       38.45%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               39207          0.99%
hit                 2269214        57.24%
crit                1655959        41.77%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3172599        61.53%
crit                1983806        38.47%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               48338          1.00%
hit                 2761789        56.86%
crit                2046865        42.14%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2993643        61.50%
crit                1873916        38.50%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4151849        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 44.52

flurry uptime                  84.80%
unleashed rage uptime          99.97%
elemental devastation uptime   72.63%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              34.83%
oh enchant uptime              31.55%
trinket1 uptime                20.52%
trinket2 uptime                17.44%
totem uptime                   10.96%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.07      0.06%
mp5                 34.53     30.96%
replenishment       24.05     21.56%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 19.01     17.04%
shamanistic rage    33.88     30.37%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1299.03   32.58%    80.21
windfury            564.77    14.17%    6.31
flametongue         394.48    9.89%     50.79
stormstrike         247.21    6.2%      6.67      36.77     28.64%
lava lash           134.76    3.38%     8.09      16.70     13.01%
searing totem       217.30    5.45%     1.00      4.83      3.76%
earth shock         441.29    11.07%    8.59      26.41     20.57%
lightning bolt      543.19    13.62%    8.11      43.69     34.02%
lightning shield    144.82    3.63%     0.77      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 3986.86
MPS                 128.40
MP2min              15407.54
MRPS                132.05
Out of mana time    0.01%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 59.08s
simulation speed: 609312x
Splintering
MH:
miss                2444232        10.43%
dodge               234605         1.00%
glancing            5857184        24.98%
hit                 4962271        21.17%
crit                9946685        42.43%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.31%
procs/swings        13.80%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               76675          1.01%
hit                 4319562        57.04%
crit                3177073        41.95%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               40291          1.01%
hit                 2291826        57.27%
crit                1669864        41.73%

OH:
miss                2542218        10.42%
dodge               243716         1.00%
glancing            6094883        24.98%
hit                 5167150        21.18%
crit                10349852       42.42%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 18679942       61.57%
crit                11661755       38.43%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               39166          0.99%
hit                 2267423        57.23%
crit                1655101        41.78%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3174489        61.55%
crit                1983110        38.45%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               48611          1.00%
hit                 2760744        56.85%
crit                2046544        42.15%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2982272        61.52%
crit                1865038        38.48%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4146233        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 44.32

flurry uptime                  84.83%
unleashed rage uptime          99.97%
elemental devastation uptime   72.54%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              34.88%
oh enchant uptime              31.46%
trinket1 uptime                20.51%
trinket2 uptime                17.42%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.07      0.06%
mp5                 34.53     31.02%
replenishment       24.05     21.61%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 18.99     17.06%
shamanistic rage    33.66     30.24%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1290.91   32.37%    79.74
windfury            579.40    14.53%    6.31
flametongue         392.70    9.85%     50.57
stormstrike         246.93    6.19%     6.67      36.75     28.6
lava lash           134.72    3.38%     8.09      16.71     13.0
searing totem       217.14    5.44%     1.00      4.83      3.77
earth shock         441.32    11.06%    8.60      26.42     20.6
lightning bolt      540.81    13.56%    8.08      43.52     33.9
lightning shield    144.62    3.63%     0.77      0.00      0.00

DPS                 3988.55
MPS                 128.22
MP2min              15386.46
MRPS                131.80
Out of mana time    0.01%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 48.18s
simulation speed: 747260x
Stonebreakers
MH:
miss                2444277        10.43%
dodge               233973         1.00%
glancing            5855676        24.98%
hit                 4964383        21.17%
crit                9946912        42.43%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.30%
procs/swings        13.78%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               76889          1.02%
hit                 4320726        57.11%
crit                3168093        41.87%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               39948          1.00%
hit                 2291080        57.25%
crit                1670809        41.75%

OH:
miss                2541075        10.42%
dodge               244053         1.00%
glancing            6092274        24.97%
hit                 5164896        21.17%
crit                10355769       42.45%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 18668881       61.53%
crit                11674510       38.47%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               38805          0.98%
hit                 2267700        57.24%
crit                1655384        41.78%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3174691        61.55%
crit                1983397        38.45%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%

dodge               48257          0.99%
hit                 2761508        56.87%
crit                2045860        42.13%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2983686        61.53%
crit                1865137        38.47%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4138808        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 44.33

flurry uptime                  84.83%
unleashed rage uptime          99.97%
elemental devastation uptime   72.55%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              34.88%
oh enchant uptime              31.49%
trinket1 uptime                20.51%
trinket2 uptime                17.42%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.07      0.06%
mp5                 34.54     31.03%
replenishment       24.06     21.62%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 18.98     17.06%
shamanistic rage    33.65     30.23%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1291.07   32.37%    79.74
windfury            578.50    14.51%    6.30
flametongue         392.83    9.85%     50.57
stormstrike         246.98    6.19%     6.67      36.75     28.65
lava lash           134.71    3.38%     8.09      16.70     13.02
searing totem       217.15    5.45%     1.00      4.83      3.77%
earth shock         441.37    11.07%    8.60      26.43     20.61
lightning bolt      540.95    13.56%    8.08      43.54     33.95
lightning shield    144.36    3.62%     0.77      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 3987.92
MPS                 128.24
MP2min              15389.13
MRPS                131.64
Out of mana time    0.01%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 40.43s
simulation speed: 890537x
Seems they are all equivalent for me and there is no real reason to spend your WotLK badges if you already have stonebreakers.

EDIT:
Config for those who care.
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         150
simulate_mana                   1

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              ST
rotation_priority7              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               
shadow_resistance               

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            rhinolicious_wyrmsteak
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.6
mh_crit                         25.07
oh_crit                         25.07
mh_hit                          10.58
oh_hit                          10.58
mh_expertise_rating             146
oh_expertise_rating             146
ap                              2842
haste                           1.16
armor_penetration               1.43
str                             129
agi                             681
int                             285
spi                             153
spellpower                      852
spell_crit                      17.89
spell_hit                       13.23
max_mana                        8391
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        meteorite_whetstone
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_splintering

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      5/5
concussion                      2/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#883SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3AeroByte
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Also a bug. Are you using Deathfrost also? That would explain the lower DPS as Bandit's Insignia was resetting misc damage every proc. I'll upload a new version later today.
Running double Mongoose + [Fury of the Five Flights]
#884SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Artoxia
Enh Sim tells me that i reached expertise cap and that the ep calculation will be skipped für that stat.

this is my config file:
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				40
ep_crit_rating 			20
ep_hit_rating 			20
ep_expertise 			1 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	20
ep_spellpower 			24
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				200
ep_spirit			100
ep_mp5				20

race				draenei //{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed			2.50
oh_speed			2.80
mh_dps				156.6
oh_dps				112.0
mh_crit				22.85	//%
oh_crit				22.85	
mh_hit				11	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit				11
mh_expertise_rating		151	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating		151	
ap				2841	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
haste				6.43	//%
armor_penetration		0	//%
str				184
agi				558
int				412
spi				151
spellpower			852	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit			17.91	//%
spell_hit			6.25	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
max_mana			10296
mp5				90	//in combat
i already set the ep range for expertise to 1, but it still tells me that i am over the cap. any sugestions?
#885SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
enhsim 1.4.8

Originally Posted by AeroByte View Post
Running double Mongoose + [Fury of the Five Flights]
It shouldn't decrease DPS unless you are using something else which adds to the misc damage. Anyway bug fixed, tell me do you still get the dps decrease.

1.4.8
-Config option ep_precision added. It defines how many decimal digits there are in EP values.
-EP value export added. Export strings can be found and edited in enhsim_ep_exports.txt. You can add, edit, remove or comment out strings.
-Now you can output to file using output parameter when starting the executable. Also combatlog file can be chosen. Example: enhsim.exe config.txt ep output=output.txt, enhsim_combatlog.exe config.txt log=log2.txt.
-Fixed a bug where paper doll haste rating wasn't affecting spell GCD.
-Fixed Bandit's Insignia, Pendulum of Telluric Currents and Vestige of Haldor. They were resetting misc damage every proc.

I couldn't find Enhancer's EP string. Could someone post it here, so I can add it as default to enhsim_ep_export.txt
#886SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jules_AA
Hey guys, Im a long time lurker on the EJ forums and thought I could contribute to the offhand debate started by nevets_69 (or at least confirm which is better for me).

I did some simming but I dont wanna go yell out till someone can confirm I did it right (since im kinda new to EnhSim).

Mind you I calculated with my own gear and the mainhand is therefore [Kel'Thuzad's Reach] not [Calamity's Grasp]. But as offhand I use [Sinister Revenge] which nevets_69 seemed to have missed.

I compared it vs the 'best' slow offhand Angry Dread which is 2.5 speed. Here are the results.

Angry Dread:
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   10
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.08
oh_crit                         30.08
mh_hit                          10.79
oh_hit                          10.79
mh_expertise_rating             206
oh_expertise_rating             206
ap                              3447
haste                           6.41
armor_penetration               0
str                             133
agi                             746
int                             502
spi                             153
spellpower                      1308
spell_crit                      23.48
spell_hit                       13.48
max_mana                        11600
mp5                             92

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_splintering

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  0/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
................................................................................


MH:
miss                2906523        11.18%
dodge               64904          0.25%
glancing            6488499        24.96%
hit                 3388226        13.04%
crit                13143681       50.57%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.19%
procs/swings        12.79%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               19680          0.26%
hit                 3798903        49.33%
crit                3882083        50.41%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               10495          0.25%
hit                 2043199        49.62%
crit                2064036        50.13%

OH:
miss                3019772        11.19%
dodge               67581          0.25%
glancing            6735778        24.95%
hit                 3517905        13.03%
crit                13656429       50.58%

OH Flametongue:
miss                171206         0.52%
hit                 18683527       56.46%
crit                14235911       43.02%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               10215          0.25%
hit                 2035873        49.57%
crit                2061147        50.18%

Earth Shock:
miss                28210          0.53%
hit                 3005698        56.46%
crit                2289737        43.01%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               12701          0.25%
hit                 2509633        49.25%
crit                2573879        50.51%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                27731          0.52%
hit                 2981653        56.43%
crit                2274207        43.04%

Lightning Shield:
miss                24436          0.54%
hit                 4492669        99.46%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 48.10

flurry uptime                  90.36%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   79.36%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              35.33%
oh enchant uptime              31.95%
trinket1 uptime                0.00%
trinket2 uptime                18.31%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 35.07     34.27%
replenishment       36.91     36.06%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 30.37     29.67%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1744.24   33.58%    88.32
windfury            685.02    13.19%    6.42
flametongue         551.00    10.61%    55.15
stormstrike         309.36    5.96%     6.86      37.81     26.29%
lava lash           179.22    3.45%     8.49      16.95     11.78%
earth shock         604.50    11.64%    8.87      36.46     25.35%
lightning bolt      833.99    16.05%    8.81      52.63     36.58%
lightning shield    287.64    5.54%     0.84      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 5194.98
MPS                 143.85
MP2min              17262.49
MRPS                103.36
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 26.35s
simulation speed: 1366327x
Sinister Revenge:
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   10
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.8
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          171.1
mh_crit                         29.51
oh_crit                         29.51
mh_hit                          11.16
oh_hit                          11.16
mh_expertise_rating             206
oh_expertise_rating             206
ap                              3464
haste                           7.14
armor_penetration               0
str                             133
agi                             746
int                             502
spi                             153
spellpower                      1313
spell_crit                      22.85
spell_hit                       13.95
max_mana                        11600
mp5                             92

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_splintering

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  0/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
................................................................................


MH:
miss                2815957        10.81%
dodge               64997          0.25%
glancing            6492878        24.93%
hit                 3676284        14.12%
crit                12993306       49.89%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.22%
procs/swings        12.86%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               19811          0.26%
hit                 3881699        50.05%
crit                3854888        49.70%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               10318          0.25%
hit                 2069593        50.34%
crit                2031328        49.41%

OH:
miss                4083085        10.82%
dodge               94623          0.25%
glancing            9419881        24.96%
hit                 5314419        14.08%
crit                18822640       49.88%

OH Flametongue:
miss                21435          0.05%
hit                 24528795       57.37%
crit                18206918       42.58%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               10353          0.25%
hit                 2062401        50.29%
crit                2028167        49.46%

Earth Shock:
miss                2779           0.05%
hit                 3062067        57.35%
crit                2274026        42.59%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               13079          0.26%
hit                 2559097        49.96%
crit                2550543        49.79%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                2597           0.05%
hit                 2946456        57.33%
crit                2189978        42.61%

Lightning Shield:
miss                2740           0.05%
hit                 5069531        99.95%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 46.63

flurry uptime                  88.63%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   78.45%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              35.34%
oh enchant uptime              28.75%
trinket1 uptime                0.00%
trinket2 uptime                18.69%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 35.11     34.13%
replenishment       36.95     35.92%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 30.82     29.95%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1765.20   33.67%    106.30
windfury            687.85    13.12%    6.46
flametongue         631.75    12.05%    71.26
stormstrike         281.50    5.37%     6.85      37.75     26.39%
lava lash           132.73    2.53%     8.54      17.14     11.98%
earth shock         606.97    11.58%    8.90      36.84     25.75%
lightning bolt      812.27    15.49%    8.57      51.32     35.88%
lightning shield    324.96    6.2%      0.94      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 5243.24
MPS                 143.06
MP2min              17167.12
MRPS                103.83
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 29.09s
simulation speed: 1237751x
So I end up on:
Angry Dread : 5194.98 DPS
Sinister Revenge: 5243.24 DPS

Which is 48,26 dps better. But keep in mind sinister revenge is 14,5 DPS higher.

If there are factor's I missed (should I sim [Webbed Death] for completion?) please let me know. Also let me know if this didn't help at all and i'll go back to lurking ;P
#887SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Not all food buffs seem to be represented, the Expertise food in particular.
#888SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Artoxia View Post
Enh Sim tells me that i reached expertise cap and that the ep calculation will be skipped für that stat.

...

i already set the ep range for expertise to 1, but it still tells me that i am over the cap. any sugestions?
You might have lowered the default boss dodge.
You might be using older GUI version and you have enhsim.exe in the path. Then it believes you use level 70.
#889SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rako
Originally Posted by Purges View Post
I'm not sure if this was simply a rhetoric question or not. But Stonebreakers is coming out anywhere from 5DPS less to equal to the Totem of Dueling for me. And curiously, Totem of Hex is actually coming out about 10DPS higher than both of those in my simulations. I am currently running with Dueling though. Those are the only 3 I've tested so far as they are the only relics I posses. If this is an oddity, I'd be more than happy to post my code file.

For me Totem of Dueling is always lower then Stonebreak, but only by a small margin. Its one of many things that everyone has to sim out for themselves. Another week of Naxx runs will change my equipment alot, so I will just resim it then.

Last edited by Rako : 12/08/08 at 1:35 PM.
#890SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I couldn't find Enhancer's EP string. Could someone post it here, so I can add it as default to enhsim_ep_export.txt
I'd done some updating of the EquivalencePoints addon to get it to work with patch 3.0 this is where the Enhancer EP string now imports to, as the original author split the addon in two keeping the EP values separate from Enhancer, as the EP values is equally useful to other classes if they change the values to suit their class.

The addon can import a LootRank string and is perhaps best output as this as that kills two birds with one stone. The main reason for not doing an old "Enhancer" style export string at present is that it was the old Yo! sim string which doesn't support some of the new stats mainly INT.

AP:100;CR:167;STR:200;AGI:148;HR:175;HsR:169;IA:023;ExP:258;

was the format.


Exporting a LootRank or Lootzor string should work just fine. I could do an update of EquivalencePoints if the strings you create have further issues with the importing. As either website may have adjusted the syntax of their URL. If you get the URL right I can amend EquivPoints to get the import right.

I see a beautiful symmetry between exporting from game with ShockAndAwe to EnhSim which feeds output back into game to Equivalence Points, displaying possible kit upgrades on LootRank on the way. I've even looked at packaging Equivalence Points as an optional part of ShockAndAwe as I feel the two combined gives an Enh Shaman a great deal of information to work with to improve their play.
#891SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I see a beautiful symmetry between exporting from game with ShockAndAwe to EnhSim which feeds output back into game to Equivalence Points, displaying possible kit upgrades on LootRank on the way. I've even looked at packaging Equivalence Points as an optional part of ShockAndAwe as I feel the two combined gives an Enh Shaman a great deal of information to work with to improve their play.
I mentioned to Rounced last night that something like that also would really benefit from having a tooltip that said "Hey! This item is better than your current one, but takes you over/under the hit/expertise caps! Recommend you swap gems from your [Chest] and [Legs] to compensate!"
#892SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
I made an export string for Lootrank. So can EquivalencePoints also import this? Add this to the enhsim_ep_exports.txt.
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=$strength&mh=$haste&dps=$mhdps&mp5=$mp5&mcr=$crit&odps=$ohdps&spd=$spellpower&Agi=$agility&mhit=$hit&Int=$intelligence&Spi=$spirit&map=$attackpower&arp=$armorp&Exp=$expertise
I noticed a minor rounding bug in exporting. On screen, values are rounded normally, but export strings truncate the values, I think.
#893SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
You should remove Drums of Battle since they aren't relevant to level 80 characters.
#894SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Triper
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Interesting, the sim was showing Dueling as being a significant drop in DPS. Must just be a gearing thing.
I do have quite a bit more passive haste than you (I'm at 10.03%). That may have something to do with it. I'll double-check the sim to make sure though.

Here are the precise results for my gear:

Totem of Splintering: 5425.95 DPS
Totem of the Elemental Plane: 5432.81 DPS
Stonebreaker's Totem: 5441.28 DPS
Totem of Hex: 5449.37 DPS
Totem of Dueling: 5452.04 DPS

Dueling and Hex are so close I don't think it really truly matters, but I'm a perfectionist so I'll be sticking with my Totem of Dueling.

Last edited by Triper : 12/05/08 at 4:23 PM.
#895SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Not all food buffs seem to be represented, the Expertise food in particular.
[Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak] is there.
#896SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ardonomus
I think all the old 70 foods are obsolete now compared to their new 80 counterparts, so they can probably be safely removed and replaced with the new food.

Here's a list of some of the new consumables we might benefit most from:

[taken from wowhead; filtering crafted by a profession and the stat in question > 0]

Armor penetration
[Elixir of Armor Piercing]
[Hearty Rhino]

Expertise
[Elixir of Expertise]
[Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak]

Attack Power
[Flask of Endless Rage]
[Wrath Elixir]
[Mega Mammoth Meal] or [Poached Northern Sculpin]
[Mammoth Meal] or [Grilled Sculpin]
[Dalaran Clam Chowder]

Crit rating
[Elixir of Deadly Strikes]
[Spiced Wyrm Burger] or [Spicy Blue Nettlefish]
[Wyrm Delight] or [Poached Nettlefish]

Haste rating
[Elixir of Lightning Speed]
[Potion of Speed]
[Imperial Manta Steak] or [Very Burnt Worg]
[Baked Manta Ray] or [Roasted Worg]

Hit rating
[Elixir of Accuracy]
[Snapper Extreme]

Spell Power
[Flask of the Frost Wyrm]
[Spellpower Elixir]
[Potion of Wild Magic]
[Firecracker Salmon] or [Tender Shoveltusk Steak]
[Smoked Salmon] or [Shoveltusk Steak]

Agility
[Elixir of Mighty Agility]
[Blackened Dragonfin]
[Guru's Elixir]

Intellect
[Elixir of Mighty Thoughts]
[Guru's Elixir]
#897SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hornbreakerz
This might be a stupid question, but how do you pass a config file to a certain simulator? I can't figure out how to change from the level 70 config, to the level 80.
#898SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Hornbreakerz View Post
This might be a stupid question, but how do you pass a config file to a certain simulator? I can't figure out how to change from the level 70 config, to the level 80.
Lower right corner where it says Path hit the browse button and select the simulator you want to use (although the level 70 one is no longer included in the folder so that should make it easier).
#899SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Hornbreakerz
Done, thanks.

But now I have the expertise rating problem, it says the max amount of expertise rating I can have, before there is no more use of it, is 132. Now I know this is wrong, so what am I to do here? Boss dodge is at 6.5 and I am using the newest version of EnhSim.

Edit: And the EP calculation sim seems to crash every time I start it. At least when using the GUI

Last edited by Hornbreakerz : 12/06/08 at 2:13 PM.
#900SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3mjgunn
Ok, I've found something a little strange with the sim. Been playing with my build a bit to work static shock in, since I've been unable to even give my mana away during raids no matter how hard I try. Using the sim, I find that if I drop Elemental Focus, it's a huge loss in dps, around 500. But if I drop the point from Shamanistic Focus, my DPS goes up 100. And this is with no other difference between the builds. Is this a fluke, I don't understand why my dps would possibly go up doing that.

P.S. Here's the build I'm looking at. If I put in the sim I have EF and SF, my dps is 4550ish,4kish with just SF, and 4650ish with just Elemental Focus. Shouldn't it be highest with both of them?
#901SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by mjgunn View Post
Ok, I've found something a little strange with the sim. Been playing with my build a bit to work static shock in, since I've been unable to even give my mana away during raids no matter how hard I try. Using the sim, I find that if I drop Elemental Focus, it's a huge loss in dps, around 500. But if I drop the point from Shamanistic Focus, my DPS goes up 100. And this is with no other difference between the builds. Is this a fluke, I don't understand why my dps would possibly go up doing that.

P.S. Here's the build I'm looking at. If I put in the sim I have EF and SF, my dps is 4550ish,4kish with just SF, and 4650ish with just Elemental Focus. Shouldn't it be highest with both of them?

It's because you have the little mana button checked and without Elemental Focus you end up with periods of no mana which is horrible for sustained dps. If you mana really is never a concern then uncheck that box and rerun your values.

Oh and it's not an issue with the sim being wrong or anything like that, the defaults on the sim are for 6 minutes of sustained dps and even with replenishment (and no mana pots) that can be rough on some builds. The reason that isn't what you are experiencing is that there are no current raid fights with 6 minutes of sustained dps, most fights are 3-4minutes or they have breaks where your natural regen is active and you get closer to being able to use Shamanistic Rage while not spending mana.
#902SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3mjgunn
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
It's because you have the little mana button checked and without Elemental Focus you end up with periods of no mana which is horrible for sustained dps. If you mana really is never a concern then uncheck that box and rerun your values.

Oh and it's not an issue with the sim being wrong or anything like that, the defaults on the sim are for 6 minutes of sustained dps and even with replenishment (and no mana pots) that can be rough on some builds. The reason that isn't what you are experiencing is that there are no current raid fights with 6 minutes of sustained dps, most fights are 3-4minutes or they have breaks where your natural regen is active and you get closer to being able to use Shamanistic Rage while not spending mana.
I'll do that, though I assume then the dps numbers should be the same across the board then since mana won't be taken into account, no?

One thing I don't get though, if it's taking mana into account, why wouldn't DPS be highest with both mana cost reduction talents?
#903SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mindrila
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I couldn't find Enhancer's EP string. Could someone post it here, so I can add it as default to enhsim_ep_export.txt
I have written a small java tool for building the mean value of EP Stats out of multiple runs and give me an import string for Equivalence Points. I used the Session Import which has following format (for our relevant stats):
^1^T^SMANAREG^N[mp5]^SATTACKPOWER^N[ap]^SINT^N[int]^SSTR^N[str]^SCR_ARMOR_PENETRATION^N[arp]^SEMPTY_SOCKET_META^N[metabonus]^SCR_EXPERTISE^N[expertise]^SCR_HIT^N[hit]^SSPI^N[spirit]^SAGI^N[agi]^SCR_HASTE^N[haste]^SSPELLPOWER^N[sp]^SCR_CRIT^N[crit]^t^^
Just replace the [ ] with the according stat. It's also worth noting, that Equivalence Points calculates BoK itself, so all base stats should be divided by 1.1 to give correct numbers.
#904SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by mjgunn View Post
I'll do that, though I assume then the dps numbers should be the same across the board then since mana won't be taken into account, no?

One thing I don't get though, if it's taking mana into account, why wouldn't DPS be highest with both mana cost reduction talents?
Probably because Elemental Focus is active just about constantly in a raiding situation and affects shocks and Lightning Bolts and Chain Lightning. Do you have MW5CL in your priority list? If you do that could easily explain the results you are seeing.
#905SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.4.9

1.4.9
-Fixed export string bug. Spellpower was set as attack power value.
-Fixed export string rounding bug.
-Added consumables from this list EnhSim, DPS simulator which were not in the sim. Thanks to Ardonomus for making that list.
#906SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Roflmeow
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
So I did my research and I think you need to install this package:

Download details: Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable Package (x86)

Tell me if it works.
The above fixed my issue

Hey guys.

I'm getting the following error when trying to run the sim on Vista 64. Based on what i see from the log the sim is not compatible with x64?

Error:
The application has failed to start because its side-byside configuration is incorrect.  Please see the application event log for more detail.


Event log detail:
Log Name:      Application
Source:        SideBySide
Date:          12/7/2008 9:33:47 AM
Event ID:      33
Task Category: None
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      PC
Description:
Activation context generation failed for "C:\Users\username\Desktop\enhsim\enhsimgui.exe". Dependent Assembly Microsoft.VC90.CRT,processorArchitecture="x86",publicKeyToken="1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b",type="win32",version="9.0.21022.8" could not be found. Please use sxstrace.exe for detailed diagnosis.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="SideBySide" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="49409">33</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2008-12-07T14:33:47.000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>749</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>wilby-PC</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>Microsoft.VC90.CRT,processorArchitecture="x86",publicKeyToken="1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b",type="win32",version="9.0.21022.8"</Data>
  
    <Data>C:\Users\wilby\Desktop\enhsim\enhsimgui.exe</Data>

</Event>
#907SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Radditz
same stats just pressed calculate ep few times...:
baseline                                      2467.36
ap                        1.00      0.23      2482.36        15.00
crit rating               2.69      0.63      2496.31        28.96
hit rating                1.44      0.34      2477.49        10.13
expertise rating          3.50      0.82      2494.27        26.92
haste rating              2.05      0.48      2483.25        15.89
armor penetration rating  1.80      0.42      2473.69        6.33
spellpower                1.15      0.27      2474.90        7.54
mh dps                    6.01      1.41      2481.44        14.09
oh dps                    2.10      0.49      2472.28        4.92
strength                  1.00
agility                   1.88
intelligence              -0.69
spirit                    -0.06     -0.01     2465.88        -1.47
mana                      -0.13     -0.03     2461.21        -6.15
mp5                       -0.52     -0.12     2464.90        -2.46
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2462.84
ap                        1.00      0.36      2485.67        22.84
crit rating               2.08      0.74      2496.97        34.14
hit rating                1.60      0.57      2480.02        17.18
expertise rating          2.39      0.85      2490.81        27.97
haste rating              1.63      0.58      2482.07        19.23
armor penetration rating  1.01      0.36      2468.22        5.38
spellpower                1.18      0.42      2474.59        11.75
mh dps                    5.40      1.93      2482.10        19.27
oh dps                    2.43      0.87      2471.49        8.66
strength                  1.00
agility                   1.70
intelligence              1.94
spirit                    0.17      0.06      2469.02        6.18
mana                      0.04      0.02      2465.91        3.07
mp5                       1.15      0.41      2471.06        8.23
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      diffe

baseline                                      2463.70
ap                        1.00      0.33      2484.97        21.27
crit rating               2.02      0.67      2494.61        30.91
hit rating                1.57      0.52      2479.38        15.68
expertise rating          2.63      0.87      2492.34        28.64
haste rating              1.84      0.61      2483.90        20.20
armor penetration rating  1.69      0.56      2472.11        8.41
spellpower                1.41      0.47      2476.81        13.11
mh dps                    5.30      1.76      2481.32        17.62
oh dps                    2.50      0.83      2472.00        8.30
strength                  1.00
agility                   1.66
intelligence              1.04
spirit                    0.21      0.07      2470.71        7.00
mana                      -0.02     -0.01     2462.65        -1.05
mp5                       1.16      0.39      2471.44        7.74
some numbers are really different. using 1.4.9... just get the mean value from those 3?
config:
simulation_time                 3000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         4
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              0/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          143.6
oh_dps                          143.6
mh_crit                         21.12
oh_crit                         21.12
mh_hit                          13.72
oh_hit                          13.72
mh_expertise_rating             115
oh_expertise_rating             115
ap                              3130
haste                           0
armor_penetration               0
str                             129
agi                             639
int                             383
spi                             153
spellpower                      1213
spell_crit                      15.03
spell_hit                       17.15
max_mana                        9861
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        -

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                2/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#908SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
A got a newbie question, how often should i check&update the ep value? every item? was also wondering about the basic ep values set in the gui, the amounts it check for variation, do i need to change it or just leave it?
#909SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Skiace
Shouldn't the ep value of int never be lower than 1.0, or 1.1 with kings?

I understand that what's happening is the sim takes a run with more mana and due to the RNG can come up with a lower dps number, thus giving the mana portion of int a negative value. But there should be a hard cap in place if this happens, i.e. the sim should know that this isn't realistic and report a default value of 1.0 or 1.1.

Last edited by Skiace : 12/07/08 at 11:59 AM.
#910SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
Shouldn't the ep value of int never be lower than 1.0, or 1.1 with kings?

I understand that what's happening is the sim takes a run with more mana and due to the RNG can come up with a lower dps number, thus giving the mana portion of int a negative value. But there should be a hard cap in place if this happens, i.e. the sim should know that this isn't realistic and report a default value of 1.0 or 1.1.
except that Intellect also gives spell crit which has value

Think about it this way, why is Agi worth more the 1.1 with kings. Because you get melee crit from each point of Agi. Intellect gives spell crit and since half of our dps is spells now that has value. It's not as good as Agi since it takes 2 points of Intellect to give as much spell crit as 1 point of Agi gives in melee crit.
#911SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
except that Intellect also gives spell crit which has value

Think about it this way, why is Agi worth more the 1.1 with kings. Because you get melee crit from each point of Agi. Intellect gives spell crit and since half of our dps is spells now that has value. It's not as good as Agi since it takes 2 points of Intellect to give as much spell crit as 1 point of Agi gives in melee crit.
That's not what he's asking. He's asking why Int is sometimes showing up as less than 1.0 or 1.1 (with King) in the sim, when that should be the absolute minimum due to Int adding to AP now.
#912SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Triper
Originally Posted by Radditz View Post
same stats just pressed calculate ep few times...:
Your simulation run time is way too short for calculating EP values. I usually run mine at 100,000 hours.
#913SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
Edit: Xoya beat me to it. Delete this post.
#914SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I made an export string for Lootrank. So can EquivalencePoints also import this? Add this to the enhsim_ep_exports.txt.
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=$strength&mh=$haste&dps=$mhdps&mp5=$mp5&mcr=$crit&odps=$ohdps&spd=$spellpower&Agi=$agility&mhit=$hit&Int=$intelligence&Spi=$spirit&map=$attackpower&arp=$armorp&Exp=$expertise
I noticed a minor rounding bug in exporting. On screen, values are rounded normally, but export strings truncate the values, I think.
Looks like EquivalencePoints import routine for any imports is bugged, it isn't understanding Armour Penetration and Spellpower. I can have a look at some point about fixing this. For now that format of LootRank string looks fine though I'd add

&s1=2.4&s3=2.4

at the start to force min MH & OH weapon speeds to 2.4 perhaps even 2.5 should be used.

BTW any support for Meta gem EP values in output.
#915SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Xoya View Post
That's not what he's asking. He's asking why Int is sometimes showing up as less than 1.0 or 1.1 (with King) in the sim, when that should be the absolute minimum due to Int adding to AP now.
Oh, sorry about misreading it. I've never had that happen before (the Int showing as low in value not the misreading part).

Guessing the 3 points in Mental Dexterity aren't selected.
#916SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Oh, sorry about misreading it. I've never had that happen before (the Int showing as low in value not the misreading part).

Guessing the 3 points in Mental Dexterity aren't selected.
Intelligence EP value is calculated from attack power(Mental Dexterity), spirit(mana regen), mana and mp5(Unrelenting Storm). Negative values on some of these lowers the intelligence value too.
#917SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mindrila
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Looks like EquivalencePoints import routine for any imports is bugged, it isn't understanding Armour Penetration and Spellpower. I can have a look at some point about fixing this. For now that format of LootRank string looks fine though I'd add

&s1=2.4&s3=2.4

at the start to force min MH & OH weapon speeds to 2.4 perhaps even 2.5 should be used.

BTW any support for Meta gem EP values in output.
Well at least the version of EQP I have does a woderful job importing my session strings.
If you import something it is saved as a new set with status hidden, so you have to unhide it to see it.
There is a bug which prevents loading sets into the actual set to change the values manually. You have to set all values to a random value and then load the set.

^1^T^SMANAREG^N0.34561224489795916^SATTACKPOWER^N1.00^SINT^N2.199350649350649^SS
TR^N1.00^SCR_ARMOR_PENETRATION^N0.8462857142857143^SEMPTY_SOCKET_META^N65.967000
00000001^SCR_EXPERTISE^N2.664571428571428^SCR_HIT^N1.163^SSPI^N0.314192949907235
56^SAGI^N1.557012987012987^SCR_HASTE^N1.336857142857143^SSPELLPOWER^N1.162285714
2857141^SCR_CRIT^N1.6181428571428569^t^^
I imported this string just a few hours ago.
#918SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Oh, sorry about misreading it. I've never had that happen before (the Int showing as low in value not the misreading part).

Guessing the 3 points in Mental Dexterity aren't selected.
I have had int EP show up as less than 1, and even negative with both kings and Mental Dexterity selected. The issue is negative values from mana etc as tukez pointed out.
#919SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Smokestomp
Post Deleted

Last edited by Smokestomp : 12/08/08 at 12:13 PM.
#920SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rako
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
I have had int EP show up as less than 1, and even negative with both kings and Mental Dexterity selected. The issue is negative values from mana etc as tukez pointed out.

This should get fixed then. Intel should never be less then 1 with Metal Dexterity. Also why would any score ever give a negative value. Their is no stat or value that should lower another stats usefullness below a certain piont. If your crit % is over 50% agl might be worth less but still should never dip below 1.1 (with kings).
#921SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rako View Post
This should get fixed then. Intel should never be less then 1 with Metal Dexterity. Also why would any score ever give a negative value. Their is no stat or value that should lower another stats usefullness below a certain piont. If your crit % is over 50% agl might be worth less but still should never dip below 1.1 (with kings).
If increasing a stat results in negative DPS, it will get a negative EP value. Rare, but possible.

Im not going to add any fail safes to check does some EP values make sense, because how can the sim possibly know, for example when some negative value is correct or incorrect? If you get results you didn't expect, then you notice something went wrong when calculating EP values. If I added limits for some of the stats, you wouldn't notice anything and would use bad EP values happily.

Usually, when you get negative EP values, it is not correct. You are probably using too short simulation runtime or too low EP ranges.
#922SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.5.0

1.5.0
-When mana simulation is disabled, spirit, mana and mp5 EP tests are skipped automatically.
-Fixed a bug with armor penetration consumables.

I have been building this website for EnhSim: EnhSim: Welcome to EnhSim homepage. There are some useful guides and you can also download EnhSim through that site. The website is not completely done yet, but at least the EP value guide is good reading for many people.

If someone wants to help me out with this site, you are welcome.
#923SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Rako View Post
This should get fixed then. Intel should never be less then 1 with Metal Dexterity. Also why would any score ever give a negative value. Their is no stat or value that should lower another stats usefullness below a certain piont. If your crit % is over 50% agl might be worth less but still should never dip below 1.1 (with kings).
If you'd actually read my initial post, you'd see how mana-related stats can easily give negative EP values just from RNG fluctuations.
#924SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rako
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
If increasing a stat results in negative DPS, it will get a negative EP value. Rare, but possible.

Im not going to add any fail safes to check does some EP values make sense, because how can the sim possibly know, for example when some negative value is correct or incorrect? If you get results you didn't expect, then you notice something went wrong when calculating EP values. If I added limits for some of the stats, you wouldn't notice anything and would use bad EP values happily.

Usually, when you get negative EP values, it is not correct. You are probably using too short simulation runtime or too low EP ranges.
How would increasing any stat result in a lowering of DPS. Its even shown that increasing haste even to the "special" levels will not lower dps. I can understand how some stats will not raise DPS. But maybe I'm missing something if a stat increase can lower DPS? Can you give me any stat or even a sitution in the sim where a increase would lower overall dps.

Personal I have never seen a sim run where any increase has does this, but if its possible I would know how or even why?

EDIT:
Just saw the post above mine. I run the sim with mana turned off. So except for mana fuctionations it should not happen?

Last edited by Rako : 12/08/08 at 3:11 PM.
#925SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rako View Post
How would increasing any stat result in a lowering of DPS. Its even shown that increasing haste even to the "special" levels will not lower dps. I can understand how some stats will not raise DPS. But maybe I'm missing something if a stat increase can lower DPS? Can you give me any stat or even a sitution in the sim where a increase would lower overall dps.

Personal I have never seen a sim run where any increase has does this, but if its possible I would know how or even why?

EDIT:
Just saw the post above mine. I run the sim with mana turned off. So except for mana fuctionations it should not happen?
I was thinking about those haste levels. Some people have gotten negative values from haste. I'm not sure though, was it because of RNG or not.
#926SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cyaxeres
I have consistently gotten a strongly negative value for haste at my current gear level, between -3 and -4. I keep thinking I did something wrong in setting up my simulation run. I can post my config and results a bit later when I am back at my main computer if that would be any help. What specifically should I post?
#927SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I was thinking about those haste levels. Some people have gotten negative values from haste. I'm not sure though, was it because of RNG or not.
Actually there are some values for haste that can be very bad for shaman. Toots has got a list up somewhere but basically if you are using Windfury on only one weapon and cross over a certain weapon speed due to haste you can suddenly get a large loss of dps. I actually started stacking haste a bit due to this since I am using 2.5 speed weapons and since I couldn't get below that haste point since I am using double mongoose I figured it was easier to just push past that point.

Once I hit about 7% haste the EP value for haste rating came back up to what I feel is a more normal level.
#928SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bart00
Originally Posted by Rako View Post
How would increasing any stat result in a lowering of DPS.
RNG mostly I would guess.
#929SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by rastotem View Post
A got a newbie question, how often should i check&update the ep value? every item? was also wondering about the basic ep values set in the gui, the amounts it check for variation, do i need to change it or just leave it?
Boderline off-topic, but nevermind.

Yes, in an EP setting you should recalculate EP after every change. If it's something minor, like 20 AP or 10 int, chances are that nothing will change, but most stats will give screw the balance when you increase or decrease them. A superior item can greatly change you EP. Moving away from a 40 hit poor item for a 200 AP, no hit item and thus bringing you below the spell hit cap will make hit EP go up.

You don't need to fiddle with EP ranges, if that is what you mean. Chances are the defaults are fine.
#930SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3gilf
Mac Compilage of 1.5

Originally Posted by Rosboeuf View Post
When you start the new project in Xcode perhaps choose the Command Line Utility -> C++ Tool template. Save the project somewhere else on your drive. Delete the main.cpp in Xcode that came with the template, then add all of the source code to the project from the source folder in the unrarred version - checking the checkbox "Copy to ... if needed".
Drag the SFMT (or whatever it is) in the same way. Then you need to download the boost library and put it into a subdir in the project folder (not in Xcode) called libraries and add that to the libraries search path. Then define NOTHREADS in enhsim.h so that you don't have to install zthreads...
After attempting to wait it out and hope that someone would update the Mac binary, I am attempting to compile the new version on my Mac using Xcode. My apologies if this is off-topic, but hopefully I can get some help here. If I can get this working, I would be happy to write up a tutorial for others in my situation. I have pretty extensive experience writing code, but very little in C++ itself and am not a 'real' developer (am a sciences grad student). This is my first time using Xcode.

I have followed the above procedures, more or less. I found that you need to list the 'libraries' folder mentioned above as a header search path--not a library search path. Moreover, you shouldn't set Xcode to recursively search for subdirectories--it breaks things in a buggy way. (Documented via Google.)

At any rate, the compile is still failing with the errors like:

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim/stats.cpp:187: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::endl [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits<char>]))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::fixed) << enh::setprecision(2)'
It then proceeds to list a number of possible candidates, such as:

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim/enhsimoutput.h:37: note: candidates are: enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(bool)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim/enhsimoutput.h:38: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(short int)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim/enhsimoutput.h:39: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(short unsigned int)
(There are 25 in total I think.) Each error is an unmatched << operator to enh::eout it looks like.

My C++ is very rusty, but it looks like something might be stomping on the output stream somehow? Or I don't have the stream defined somewhere?

This fails in stats.cpp (29 errors), and enhsimconfig.cpp (17 errors).

I am compiling in Xcode 3.1.2 with GCC 4.2 and the OSX 10.5 Base SDK. Boost release is 1.37.0. Computer is a Macbook Pro 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo running OSX 10.5.5 with 2 GB of memory.
#931SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Just followed the steps as you outlined and I had the same results.

I'm not too savvy with C++ but is this just a typecast error? It looks like the overloaded operators you've defined for << may be interpreting enh::setw(26) incorrectly.

Oh and to elaborate on the steps to get to this point:
1) Download EnhSim and unpack.
2) Download Boost and unpack.
3) Invoke Xcode. Define a new project anywhere on the drive.
4) Right click main.cpp in Xcode and Delete this file (send to trash)
5) In the left hand panel (Groups & Files) right click the name of the project you created (should be the top entry) and choose Add -> Existing Files. Navigate to the Source folder and hit ok. If asked if you want to copy the files to the project path, choose to do so.
6) In the Finder (not in Xcode) create a new folder called 'libraries' and put Boost into it. Move that entire directory into the project path that you created in 3.
7) In Xcode go to Project -> Edit Project Settings, then the Build tab. Scroll down till you see the header that says "Search Paths". Double click the entry for "Header Search Paths", and in the dialog use the + button to add a new path. Do not select the Recursive check box. Type in the path to the Boost folder you copied, it should look like: "libraries/boost_1_37_0", and then exit all those menus.
8) Hit the Build button.

Last edited by Malan : 12/08/08 at 11:42 PM.
#932SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
gilf
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Just followed the steps as you outlined and I had the same results.

I'm not too savvy with C++ but is this just a typecast error? It looks like the overloaded operators you've defined for << may be interpreting enh::setw(26) incorrectly.

Oh and to elaborate on the steps to get to this point:
1) Download EnhSim and unpack.
2) Download Boost and unpack.
3) Invoke Xcode. Define a new project anywhere on the drive.
4) Right click main.cpp in Xcode and Delete this file (send to trash)
5) In the left hand panel (Groups & Files) right click the name of the project you created (should be the top entry) and choose Add -> Existing Files. Navigate to the Source folder and hit ok. If asked if you want to copy the files to the project path, choose to do so.
6) In the Finder (not in Xcode) create a new folder called 'libraries' and put Boost into it. Move that entire directory into the project path that you created in 3.
7) In Xcode go to Project -> Edit Project Settings, then the Build tab. Scroll down till you see the header that says "Search Paths". Double click the entry for "Header Search Paths", and in the dialog use the + button to add a new path. Do not select the Recursive check box. Type in the path to the Boost folder you copied, it should look like: "libraries/boost_1_37_0", and then exit all those menus.
8) Hit the Build button.
To be fair, I've not defined anything to do with the output stream, that's all tukez, presumably. I am hoping this error is one that between his knowledge of the code, and my ability to click radio buttons, we can solve on the Mac.

As for the procedure, I did one extra step that you didn't list: I added #define NOTHREADS in enhsim.h. I did this so that I didn't have to install zthreads or whatever. If you didn't do this, and got the same result, I suppose it's possible that my build just fails before it tries to link and never gets that far or something. My boost path is slightly different, but I don't think that matters, as long as the directory structure starting at the boost/ directory and below is intact. Other than that, however, this looks right. I spent a good deal of time trying to build with the different SDKs and versions of GCC provided with my install, but had no success. I've tried the versions of GCC provided with xcode: 3.3, 4.0, and 4.2. Presumably these are all similar to the gcc provided by GNU, but horribly warped by Apple in some way. I tried compiling with both the 10.4 and 10.5 SDKs.

It's possible that I'm doing something extremely basic incorrectly. MATLAB this ain't.

Last edited by gilf : 12/08/08 at 11:59 PM.
#933SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by gilf View Post
After attempting to wait it out and hope that someone would update the Mac binary, I am attempting to compile the new version on my Mac using Xcode.
Try with this. I modified the source in hopes of it would compile on XCode.
Megaupload - EnhSim 1.5.0
#934SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ganrak
Just tried compiling with the source code from megaupload and getting the same errors when following Malan's steps above.
#935SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by ganrak View Post
Just tried compiling with the source code from megaupload and getting the same errors when following Malan's steps above.
Could you post all the errors?
#936SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by gilf View Post
To be fair, I've not defined anything to do with the output stream, that's all tukez, presumably.
Ah of course, I wasn't referring to you in my post above at all, by 'you' I meant 'tukez'.

As for the procedure, I did one extra step that you didn't list: I added #define NOTHREADS in enhsim.h.
I did this as well, just failed to note it in the steps above.

I've tried the versions of GCC provided with xcode: 3.3, 4.0, and 4.2. Presumably these are all similar to the gcc provided by GNU, but horribly warped by Apple in some way. I tried compiling with both the 10.4 and 10.5 SDKs.
I wonder, did you also try using the 4.2 g++? If the gcc and g++ aren't the same version all sorts of funny things can happen. I just ran the build out of the box so to speak, I didn't even bother to check what gcc/g++ version it was using.


Tukez I'll get you a full print of the errors in about 2 hours when I get home for lunch.
#937SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
gilf
EDIT: Split the build output to make it more readable.

tukez--

Thanks for your help with this. Enhsim is an amazing tool. Below is a direct cut-and-paste of the build output from Xcode using your repackaged download.

Unless I've missed one, all the errors are the unmatched operator<< errors.

There seems to be one in main.cpp that I don't remember from last night.

Building target “EnhSimRepack” of project “EnhSimRepack” with configuration “Debug” — (74 errors, 5 warnings)
	    cd /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c++ -arch i386 -fmessage-length=0 -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -O0 -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG=1 -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG_PEDANTIC=1 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -mfix-and-continue -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-generated-files.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-own-target-headers.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-all-target-headers.hmap -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-project-headers.hmap -F/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug/include -ILibraries -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/DerivedSources -c /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp -o /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/Objects-normal/i386/stats.o
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp: In member function 'void Statistics::print()':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:187: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:205: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:206: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:244: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:245: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:282: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:343: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:346: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:347: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:348: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:349: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:350: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:352: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:353: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:354: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:355: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:356: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:357: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:358: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(31)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:360: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:369: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:371: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:387: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:388: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:389: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:390: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:391: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:392: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:402: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp: In member function 'void Statistics::printValueAndPercentRegen(const std::string&, const double&, const double&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:406: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp: In member function 'void Statistics::printValueAndPercent(const std::string&, const double&, const double&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:410: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp: In member function 'void Statistics::printValueAndPercentFinal(const std::string&, const double&, const double&, const double&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:421: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp: In member function 'void Statistics::printValueAndPercentFinalMana(const std::string&, const double&, const double&, const double&, const double&, const double&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/stats.cpp:433: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(20)'

	    cd /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c++ -arch i386 -fmessage-length=0 -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -O0 -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG=1 -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG_PEDANTIC=1 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -mfix-and-continue -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-generated-files.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-own-target-headers.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-all-target-headers.hmap -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-project-headers.hmap -F/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug/include -ILibraries -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/DerivedSources -c /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/skills.cpp -o /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/Objects-normal/i386/skills.o
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/skills.cpp: In member function 'void LightningShield::consumeCharge()':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/skills.cpp:682: warning: unused variable 'dmg'
	    cd /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c -arch i386 -fmessage-length=0 -pipe -std=c99 -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -O0 -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG=1 -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG_PEDANTIC=1 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -mfix-and-continue -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-generated-files.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-own-target-headers.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-all-target-headers.hmap -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-project-headers.hmap -F/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug/include -ILibraries -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/DerivedSources -c /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/SFMT/SFMT.c -o /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/Objects-normal/i386/SFMT.o
In file included from /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/SFMT/SFMT.c:16:
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/SFMT/SFMT-params.h:6:4: warning: #warning "MEXP is not defined. I assume MEXP is 19937."
	    cd /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c -arch i386 -fmessage-length=0 -pipe -std=c99 -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -O0 -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG=1 -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG_PEDANTIC=1 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -mfix-and-continue -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-generated-files.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-own-target-headers.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-all-target-headers.hmap -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-project-headers.hmap -F/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug/include -ILibraries -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/DerivedSources -c /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/SFMT/test.c -o /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/Objects-normal/i386/test.o
In file included from /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/SFMT/SFMT.c:16,
                 from /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/SFMT/test.c:19:
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/SFMT/SFMT-params.h:6:4: warning: #warning "MEXP is not defined. I assume MEXP is 19937."
	    cd /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c++ -arch i386 -fmessage-length=0 -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -O0 -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG=1 -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG_PEDANTIC=1 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -mfix-and-continue -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-generated-files.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-own-target-headers.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-all-target-headers.hmap -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-project-headers.hmap -F/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug/include -ILibraries -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/DerivedSources -c /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/main.cpp -o /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/Objects-normal/i386/main.o
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/main.cpp: In function 'int main(int, char**)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/main.cpp:319: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"simulation speed: ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(#'fix_trunc_expr' not supported by dump_expr#<expression error>))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"x")) << enh::endl()'

	    cd /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c++ -arch i386 -fmessage-length=0 -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -O0 -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG=1 -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG_PEDANTIC=1 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -mfix-and-continue -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-generated-files.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-own-target-headers.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-all-target-headers.hmap -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-project-headers.hmap -F/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug/include -ILibraries -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/DerivedSources -c /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/globalutil.cpp -o /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/Objects-normal/i386/globalutil.o
In file included from /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/SFMT/SFMT.c:16,
                 from /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/globalutil.cpp:7:
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/SFMT/SFMT-params.h:6:4: warning: #warning "MEXP is not defined. I assume MEXP is 19937."
	    cd /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c++ -arch i386 -fmessage-length=0 -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -O0 -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG=1 -D_GLIBCXX_DEBUG_PEDANTIC=1 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -mfix-and-continue -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-generated-files.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-own-target-headers.hmap -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-all-target-headers.hmap -iquote /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/EnhSimRepack-project-headers.hmap -F/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/Debug/include -ILibraries -I/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/DerivedSources -c /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp -o /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/build/EnhSimRepack.build/Debug/EnhSimRepack.build/Objects-normal/i386/enhsimconfig.o
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EPThread::run()':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:252: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((std::string&)(& message))) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::printEPValues(const f32&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:337: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:338: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(46)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:339: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:340: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:341: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:342: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:343: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:344: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:345: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:346: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:347: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:349: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:351: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:353: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:354: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:355: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:356: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:361: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:405: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((std::string&)(+ lines. __gnu_debug_def::vector<_Tp, _Allocator>::operator[] [with _Tp = std::string, _Allocator = std::allocator<std::string>](((long unsigned int)i))))) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:408: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setMhWeaponEnchant(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:969: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Imbue ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setOhWeaponEnchant(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1006: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Imbue ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setMhEnchant(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1051: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Enchant ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setOhEnchant(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1096: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Enchant ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setTrinket(const std::string&, const int&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1296: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Trinket ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setTotem(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1383: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Totem ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setSetBonus(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1460: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Set bonus ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setMetagem(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1509: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Metagem ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setConsumable(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1949: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Consumable ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setMiscItem(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1975: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Misc item ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'void EnhSimConfig::setGlyph(const std::string&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2039: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Glyph ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'f32 EnhSimConfig::calculateEPValues(const f32&)':
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2201: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Hit is past caps, EP hit test will be skipped.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2205: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Mh hit + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((mhhit - miss) / 1.0e+2)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"% (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((mhhit - miss) / ((double)HIT_RATING_TO_HIT))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" hit rating).")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2208: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Oh hit + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((ohhit - miss) / 1.0e+2)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"% (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((ohhit - miss) / ((double)HIT_RATING_TO_HIT))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" hit rating).")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2211: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((spellhit - #'float_expr' not supported by dump_expr#<expression error>) / 1.0e+2)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"% (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((spellhit - #'float_expr' not supported by dump_expr#<expression error>) / ((double)HIT_RATING_TO_SPELLHIT))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" hit rating).")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2219: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2223: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Mh expertise + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((mhexp - expcap) / ((double)EXPERTISE_RATING_TO_EXPERTISE))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" expertise (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<((mhexp - expcap)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" expertise rating).")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2226: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Oh expertise + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((ohexp - expcap) / ((double)EXPERTISE_RATING_TO_EXPERTISE))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" expertise (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<((ohexp - expcap)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" expertise rating).")) << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2229: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2185: warning: unused variable 'skipped'
		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:252: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((std::string&)(& message))) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:337: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:338: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(46)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:339: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:340: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:341: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:342: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:343: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:344: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:345: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:346: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:347: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:349: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:351: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:353: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:354: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:355: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:356: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:361: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:405: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((std::string&)(+ lines. __gnu_debug_def::vector<_Tp, _Allocator>::operator[] [with _Tp = std::string, _Allocator = std::allocator<std::string>](((long unsigned int)i))))) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:408: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:969: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Imbue ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1006: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Imbue ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1051: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Enchant ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1096: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Enchant ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1296: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Trinket ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1383: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Totem ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1460: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Set bonus ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1509: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Metagem ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1949: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Consumable ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:1975: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Misc item ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2039: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Glyph ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const std::string&)(+ name))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" not found.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2201: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Hit is past caps, EP hit test will be skipped.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2205: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Mh hit + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((mhhit - miss) / 1.0e+2)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"% (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((mhhit - miss) / ((double)HIT_RATING_TO_HIT))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" hit rating).")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2208: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Oh hit + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((ohhit - miss) / 1.0e+2)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"% (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((ohhit - miss) / ((double)HIT_RATING_TO_HIT))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" hit rating).")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2211: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((spellhit - #'float_expr' not supported by dump_expr#<expression error>) / 1.0e+2)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"% (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((spellhit - #'float_expr' not supported by dump_expr#<expression error>) / ((double)HIT_RATING_TO_SPELLHIT))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" hit rating).")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2219: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2223: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Mh expertise + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((mhexp - expcap) / ((double)EXPERTISE_RATING_TO_EXPERTISE))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" expertise (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<((mhexp - expcap)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" expertise rating).")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2226: error: no match for 'operator<<' in '(+(+(+(+ enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)"Oh expertise + EP range goes past cap by ")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((ohexp - expcap) / ((double)EXPERTISE_RATING_TO_EXPERTISE))))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" expertise (")))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<((ohexp - expcap)))->enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((const char*)" expertise rating).")) << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2229: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::endl()'

		/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimconfig.cpp:2185: warning: unused variable 'skipped'
Build failed (74 errors, 5 warnings)
After every 'error: no match for 'operator<<' line there is the following collection of lines that seems identical for each instance:

/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:48: note: candidates are: enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(bool)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:49: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(short int)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:50: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(short unsigned int)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:51: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(int)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:52: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(unsigned int)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:53: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(long int)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:54: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(long unsigned int)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:55: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(float)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:56: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(double)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:57: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(long double)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:58: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(void*)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:60: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::string&)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:61: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(const std::string&)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:62: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::streambuf*)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:63: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::ostream& (*)(std::ostream&))
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:64: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::ios& (*)(std::ios&))
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:65: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::ios_base& (*)(std::ios_base&))
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:67: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(enh::setprecision&)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:68: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(enh::setw&)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:69: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(enh::fixed&)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:70: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(enh::endl&)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:72: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(char)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:73: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(signed char)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:74: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(unsigned char)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:75: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(const char*)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:76: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(const signed char*)
/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSimRepack/enhsimoutput.h:77: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(const unsigned char*)
I trimmed these from the output since it boosts the list to unwieldy length for a forum post.

Malan--

I wonder, did you also try using the 4.2 g++? If the gcc and g++ aren't the same version all sorts of funny things can happen. I just ran the build out of the box so to speak, I didn't even bother to check what gcc/g++ version it was using.
This makes sense and I checked. There's a pulldown box that allows you to pick the C/C++ Compiler Version, which I figured would take care of this issue. I don't see a way to select them individually.

Last edited by gilf : 12/09/08 at 11:08 AM.
#938SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bonquida
I finally successfully ran Enhsim after dinking with it fruitlessly for a while (yay for googling the error message). After putting in all of my values, I clicked "Simulate" and the following appeared:

"Unhandled exception has occurred in your application. If you click Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If you click Quit, the application will close immediately."

Obviously I have a problem. I can only hope that this isn't the result of me not doing some idiotically simple thing that I should obviously have done.

I can post the details section of the error message if this isn't enough to go on. I seem to encounter every possible problem under the sun with every new thing I try.

Anyhow, I appreciate any help on the subject.
#939SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Bonquida View Post
I finally successfully ran Enhsim after dinking with it fruitlessly for a while (yay for googling the error message). After putting in all of my values, I clicked "Simulate" and the following appeared:

"Unhandled exception has occurred in your application. If you click Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If you click Quit, the application will close immediately."

Obviously I have a problem. I can only hope that this isn't the result of me not doing some idiotically simple thing that I should obviously have done.

I can post the details section of the error message if this isn't enough to go on. I seem to encounter every possible problem under the sun with every new thing I try.

Anyhow, I appreciate any help on the subject.
Yeah, post the error message along with the config file and your system specs.
#940SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
gilf
Now here is something interesting: I tried with the 1.3.4 version of Enhsim, since that's the one MacEnh was built off of. I only got one error this time, and it was different:

    mkdir /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4/build/Debug
    cd /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4
    setenv MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET 10.5
    /Developer/usr/bin/g++-4.0 -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -L/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4/build/Debug -F/Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4/build/Debug -filelist /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4/build/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Debug/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Objects-normal/i386/EnhSim1.3.4.LinkFileList -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -o /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4/build/Debug/EnhSim1.3.4
ld: duplicate symbol _get_idstring in /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4/build/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Debug/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Objects-normal/i386/test.o and /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4/build/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Debug/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Objects-normal/i386/SFMT.o
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
	ld: duplicate symbol _get_idstring in /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4/build/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Debug/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Objects-normal/i386/test.o and /Users/greer/Documents/EnhSim1.3.4/build/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Debug/EnhSim1.3.4.build/Objects-normal/i386/SFMT.o
	collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
It appears that either I'm not quite following all the steps used in making the first executable, or perhaps the development environment has changed.

UPDATE: 1.4.2 fails like 1.3.4 (linking). 1.4.8 and 1.4.9 fail like 1.5 (output stream errors). I need to run now though. I will work on this some more later.

Last edited by gilf : 12/09/08 at 11:57 AM.
#941SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by gilf View Post
Now here is something interesting: I tried with the 1.3.4 version of Enhsim, since that's the one MacEnh was built off of. I only got one error this time, and it was different: ...
I made changes to outputting. Because on Windows you can't use command line parameters to output to a file and screen at the same time, I coded it in the software. Obviously it does not work on gcc or whatever.

Here is the a slighty modified source, this is like shooting in the dark MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

If it doesn't work, do these replacements on the whole project:

enh::eout << ==> std::cout <<
enh::endl() ==> std::endl
enh::fixed() ==> std::fixed
enh::setprecision ==> std::setprecision
enh::setw ==> std::setw
That SHOULD do the trick, but then it doesn't output anything to a file. What a clusterfuck
#942SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
Originally Posted by Bonquida View Post
I finally successfully ran Enhsim after dinking with it fruitlessly for a while (yay for googling the error message). After putting in all of my values, I clicked "Simulate" and the following appeared:

"Unhandled exception has occurred in your application. If you click Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If you click Quit, the application will close immediately."

Obviously I have a problem. I can only hope that this isn't the result of me not doing some idiotically simple thing that I should obviously have done.

I can post the details section of the error message if this isn't enough to go on. I seem to encounter every possible problem under the sun with every new thing I try.

Anyhow, I appreciate any help on the subject.
This error is a little more obvious. In the lower right of the gui, you have to change which .exe is being targetted. By default the gui is still trying to use Enhsim_80.exe which no longer exists. Just change it to target the correct Enhsim.exe file. I did this a couple of times before facepalming. Then everything worked fine.
#943SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Ok we're getting somewhere now Tukez! The repack you just posted had only one failure this time (and 5 warnings mostly about unused vars).

Linking /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/EnhanceSim (1 error)
Line Location Tool:0: Command /Developer/usr/bin/g++-4.0 failed with exit code 1
Line Location Tool:0: duplicate symbol _get_idstring in /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/test.o and /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/SFMT.o

    cd /Users/zach/EnhanceSim
    /Developer/usr/bin/g++-4.0 -o /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/EnhanceSim -L/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release -F/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release -filelist /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/EnhanceSim.LinkFileList -arch ppc -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk
ld: duplicate symbol _get_idstring in /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/test.o and /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/SFMT.o

collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
	ld: duplicate symbol _get_idstring in /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/test.o and /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/SFMT.o
	collect2: ld returned 1 exit status


And in case you care to later clean up the source, here are the warnings too -
    cd /Users/zach/EnhanceSim
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c++ -arch ppc -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -Os -mdynamic-no-pic -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -fmessage-length=0 -mtune=G5 -fvisibility=hidden -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/EnhanceSim.hmap -F/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release/include -Iboost_1_37_0 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/DerivedSources -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -c /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/enhsimconfig.cpp -o /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/enhsimconfig.o
/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/enhsimconfig.cpp: In member function 'f32 EnhSimConfig::calculateEPValues(const f32&)':
/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/enhsimconfig.cpp:2185: warning: unused variable 'skipped'
	/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/enhsimconfig.cpp:2185: warning: unused variable 'skipped'
    cd /Users/zach/EnhanceSim
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c++ -arch ppc -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -Os -mdynamic-no-pic -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -fmessage-length=0 -mtune=G5 -fvisibility=hidden -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/EnhanceSim.hmap -F/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release/include -Iboost_1_37_0 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/DerivedSources -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -c /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/globalutil.cpp -o /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/globalutil.o
In file included from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT.c:16,
                 from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/globalutil.cpp:7:
/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT-params.h:6:4: warning: #warning "MEXP is not defined. I assume MEXP is 19937."
	                 from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/globalutil.cpp:7:
		In file included from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT.c:16,
			/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT-params.h:6:4: warning: #warning "MEXP is not defined. I assume MEXP is 19937."
    cd /Users/zach/EnhanceSim
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c -arch ppc -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -Os -mdynamic-no-pic -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -fmessage-length=0 -mtune=G5 -fvisibility=hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/EnhanceSim.hmap -F/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release/include -Iboost_1_37_0 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/DerivedSources -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -c /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT.c -o /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/SFMT.o
In file included from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT.c:16:
/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT-params.h:6:4: warning: #warning "MEXP is not defined. I assume MEXP is 19937."
	In file included from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT.c:16:
		/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT-params.h:6:4: warning: #warning "MEXP is not defined. I assume MEXP is 19937."
    cd /Users/zach/EnhanceSim
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c -arch ppc -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -Os -mdynamic-no-pic -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -fmessage-length=0 -mtune=G5 -fvisibility=hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/EnhanceSim.hmap -F/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release/include -Iboost_1_37_0 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/DerivedSources -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -c /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/test.c -o /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/test.o
In file included from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT.c:16,
                 from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/test.c:19:
/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT-params.h:6:4: warning: #warning "MEXP is not defined. I assume MEXP is 19937."
	                 from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/test.c:19:
		In file included from /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT.c:16,
			/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/SFMT/SFMT-params.h:6:4: warning: #warning "MEXP is not defined. I assume MEXP is 19937."
    cd /Users/zach/EnhanceSim
    /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -x c++ -arch ppc -pipe -Wno-trigraphs -fpascal-strings -fasm-blocks -Os -mdynamic-no-pic -Wreturn-type -Wunused-variable -fmessage-length=0 -mtune=G5 -fvisibility=hidden -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -mmacosx-version-min=10.5 -gdwarf-2 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/EnhanceSim.hmap -F/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/Release/include -Iboost_1_37_0 -I/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/DerivedSources -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk -c /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/skills.cpp -o /Users/zach/EnhanceSim/build/EnhanceSim.build/Release/EnhanceSim.build/Objects-normal/ppc/skills.o
/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/skills.cpp: In member function 'void LightningShield::consumeCharge()':
/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/skills.cpp:682: warning: unused variable 'dmg'
	/Users/zach/EnhanceSim/skills.cpp:682: warning: unused variable 'dmg'
#944SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3gilf
That looks like the same linking error I was getting with versions 1.3.4 on, Malan.

One thing I haven't tried is compiling the 1.3.4 source included with MacEnh 1.0. Perhaps there was some change made that Rosabeuf's developer buddy neglected to mention.

If there isn't, then something about our environment has changed since MacEnh 1.0 was compiled...
#945SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by gilf View Post
That looks like the same linking error I was getting with versions 1.3.4 on, Malan.

One thing I haven't tried is compiling the 1.3.4 source included with MacEnh 1.0. Perhaps there was some change made that Rosabeuf's developer buddy neglected to mention.

If there isn't, then something about our environment has changed since MacEnh 1.0 was compiled...
Ok, I noticed you included every file in the source dir including subdirs. Problem is that in the SFMT directory, there is test.c, which is a test program for SFMT. This of course messes up the linking. You can exclude the test.c from the project, so it doesn't get compiled. Actually you should include only the source dir, not the subdirs. It should work because subdirs have only header files.

Remember to put some optimization flags on when you compile. Here are some flags, which should work http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/hint...timization.txt.
#946SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
New error thrown after excluding the SMTF code from the build -

Line Location c++locale.h:72: error: 'snprintf' is not a member of 'std'
Line Location c++locale.h:72: error: 'snprintf' is not a member of 'std'

These are being thrown [while compiling] from effects.cpp and consumables.cpp

Looks like xcode doesn't like this block from c++locale.h
#ifdef _GLIBCXX_USE_C99
      const int __ret = std::snprintf(__out, __size, __fmt, __prec, __v);
#else
      const int __ret = std::sprintf(__out, __fmt, __prec, __v);
#endif

Last edited by Malan : 12/09/08 at 1:50 PM.
#947SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
New error thrown after excluding the SMTF code from the build -

Line Location c++locale.h:72: error: 'snprintf' is not a member of 'std'
Line Location c++locale.h:72: error: 'snprintf' is not a member of 'std'

These are being thrown from effects.cpp and consumables.cpp
Hard to say, I don't use snprintf anywhere...I found this: Re: Compile Error: 'snprintf' is not a member of 'std'. You could try to include that #include <cstring> in those files.

Another solution I found: Nabble - Boost - Users - Mac Xcode 3.0 Boost compile issue

Hi,
I had the same problem with Xcode 3 and boost 1.34.1.

To fix my problem, I had to uncheck the "recursive" checkbox button in the "Header Search Paths" section of the "Debug" target project settings for the boost header path. Once I unchecked the "recursive" checkbox, I was able to compile my target.

I hope this helps you.
#948SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Bah, shit that was it. I still had the recursive box checked. It just built fine!

I'll repost a set of OS X instructions for you in a few minutes once I verify its working properly with a config file.

Voila!
Attached Thumbnails
sim_grab.jpg  

Last edited by Malan : 12/09/08 at 2:07 PM.
#949SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3gilf
We win!

Good job Malan and especially thanks tukez!
#950SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Compile instructions for mac:
  • Invoke xCode (install from OS X cds under Developer Tools if you don't have it)
  • Start a new project (the name of the project will by default be the name of the binary that you have to run, so be concise). Immediately delete the main.cpp file when the project appears.
  • Right click in the left panel of xCode on the name of the project and choose Add -> Existing Files, then browse to the source code for EnhSim and choose all the files, including the SFMT subdirectory.
  • In the list of source files in xCode, un-check the box in the right-most column next to the test.c and SFMT.c files so that these are not included in the build.
  • Edit the file enhsim.h (double click it) and add the text "#define NOTHREADS", then save the file. (CMD-S)
  • In finder, unpack and then copy Boost (Should appear as something like 'boost_1_37_0' when unpacked) directly to the project path that you created in xCode. Do not do this *in* xCode, do it in Finder.
  • In the main menu choose Project -> Edit Project Settings then the Build tab. Scroll down till you see the header that says "Search Paths". Double click the entry for "Header Search Paths", and in the dialog use the + button to add a new path. You must ensure that the 'Recursive' checkbox is cleared or the build will fail. Type in the relative path to the Boost folder you copied, it should look like: "boost_1_37_0" and then close the menu.
  • In xCode choose Build. When its complete your binary executable for the sim will appear in [path to project]/[project name]/build/Release. You can copy the binary file to anywhere else in the system so that you can run it in Terminal with your config file.

Final step - tell your wife she no longer has to be pissy that you have to use her windows laptop to run the sim.
#951SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3gilf
One thing that might be worth mentioning: I originally downloaded a bjam executable from the boost website. This is some sort of compiled nonsense. What you need is the full source-code header library, not the bjam thing.

The current library is here:

SourceForge.net: Files

the general download page is:

Boost Downloads

(In general pick the second of the two 'Packaged Releases'.)
#952SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Yah the boost download page is a little misleading and I made the same mistake at first.

Is there a reason that you can't just bundle Boost with the sim Tukez? I seem to recall you did so at first and then removed it.
#953SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Compile instructions for mac:
  • Invoke xCode (install from OS X cds under Developer Tools if you don't have it)
  • Start a new project (the name of the project will by default be the name of the binary that you have to run, so be concise). Immediately delete the main.cpp file when the project appears.
  • Right click in the left panel of xCode on the name of the project and choose Add -> Existing Files, then browse to the source code for EnhSim and choose all the files, including the SFMT subdirectory.
  • In the list of source files in xCode, un-check the box in the right-most column next to the test.c and SFMT.c files so that these are not included in the build.
  • Edit the file enhsim.h (double click it) and add the text "#define NOTHREADS", then save the file. (CMD-S)
  • In finder, unpack and then copy Boost (Should appear as something like 'boost_1_37_0' when unpacked) directly to the project path that you created in xCode. Do not do this *in* xCode, do it in Finder.
  • In the main menu choose Project -> Edit Project Settings then the Build tab. Scroll down till you see the header that says "Search Paths". Double click the entry for "Header Search Paths", and in the dialog use the + button to add a new path. You must ensure that the 'Recursive' checkbox is cleared or the build will fail. Type in the relative path to the Boost folder you copied, it should look like: "boost_1_37_0" and then close the menu.
  • In xCode choose Build. When its complete your binary executable for the sim will appear in [path to project]/[project name]/build/Release. You can copy the binary file to anywhere else in the system so that you can run it in Terminal with your config file.

Final step - tell your wife she no longer has to be pissy that you have to use her windows laptop to run the sim.
Thanks for the guide. I copied it here: EnhSim: Compiling and building EnhSim.
#954SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Yah the boost download page is a little misleading and I made the same mistake at first.

Is there a reason that you can't just bundle Boost with the sim Tukez? I seem to recall you did so at first and then removed it.
I guess I could put it back in, it seems to take about 160KB in the rar. Not too much. I think I could try to include ZThreads also, so you wouldn't have to build it separately...have to take a look later.
#955SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3gilf
I'll look into ZThreads for Mac when I get home. If it's something along the lines of the Boost library, I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to do.

What advantages does it provide for the build? I've never dealt with multithreading. Presumably I guess it would matter in the ep calculations since it could do multiple stats independently?

Are there any negative effects that arise from not using Zthreads? Aside from speed, possibly?
#956SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I guess I could put it back in, it seems to take about 160KB in the rar. Not too much. I think I could try to include ZThreads also, so you wouldn't have to build it separately...have to take a look later.

Well really I think you're almost at the point where you may as well make 2 packages - a Source release with no precompiled binaries, just source and bundled with Boost and ZThreads (prebuilt), and then a Windows release that's nothing but the precompiled binaries and the config files and readmes.

Originally Posted by gilf View Post
What advantages does it provide for the build? I've never dealt with multithreading. Presumably I guess it would matter in the ep calculations since it could do multiple stats independently?
It provides a lot of objects dealing with multithreading synchronization, and does it cross-platform to deal with all the different ways that each OS handles errors and thread creations/termination.
#957SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Akkilees
Has there been any discussion on the merits of Call of Thunder vs Feral Spirit? I tried searching the forums and I couldn't find anything on it. I know its been said you get roughly 100DPS from wolves whichh would be for 45sec every 3min. With Call of Thunder you would get an additional 5% LB crits which on my dps logs has been behind autoattack melee and flip flopping with WF for the #2 spot. On top of that it would cause Elemental Devastation to proc more. Just curious if it has any merit.
#958SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Originally Posted by Akkilees View Post
Has there been any discussion on the merits of Call of Thunder vs Feral Spirit? I tried searching the forums and I couldn't find anything on it. I know its been said you get roughly 100DPS from wolves whichh would be for 45sec every 3min.
Incorrect. Wolves are worth around 300-400 DPS (assuming they were bloodlusted) while they are active, its 100 DPS over time when you consider the cooldown and lifespan.
#959SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rounced
Originally Posted by Akkilees View Post
Has there been any discussion on the merits of Call of Thunder vs Feral Spirit? I tried searching the forums and I couldn't find anything on it. I know its been said you get roughly 100DPS from wolves whichh would be for 45sec every 3min. With Call of Thunder you would get an additional 5% LB crits which on my dps logs has been behind autoattack melee and flip flopping with WF for the #2 spot. On top of that it would cause Elemental Devastation to proc more. Just curious if it has any merit.
The sim gives you the option to select Call of Thunder and test it for yourself.

I tested it for myself awhile back and it was worth 15dps so if the wolves do more then 60dps they are better (to say nothing of their utility).

I'm bored so I just simmed myself with Call of Thunder selected and without it and it is now up to 34dps.

Recent Naxx parse has the Wolves averaging 410dps in a raid setting. 25% uptime would set the wolves at 102.5dps.

Besides how could you look into the faces of those doggies and tell them that you are trading them in for 5% crit on LB/CL.

Last edited by Rounced : 12/09/08 at 4:54 PM.
#960SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Well really I think you're almost at the point where you may as well make 2 packages - a Source release with no precompiled binaries, just source and bundled with Boost and ZThreads (prebuilt), and then a Windows release that's nothing but the precompiled binaries and the config files and readmes.
Keep things the way they are. Readme states how you get ZThread. ZThread docs explain how you compile it. The binary isn't bothering my linux boxes in any way but it's nice to have on my Wintendo box as I have no compilers on it.

ZThread being a library need to be installed just once(and maybe updated when new releases come out) so I don't see why an URL shouldn't be enough.

Btw, is ZThread on Mac using pthreads?
#961SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Triper
Just ignore this post.... fail guild without sunder armor on patchwerk is fail...

Last edited by Triper : 12/09/08 at 11:14 PM.
#962SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
I followed the instructions for compiling on Mac, I get 40 errors in enhsimconfig.cpp all of this kind:

Projects/enhsim/source/enhsimconfig.cpp:252: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout. enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(((std::string&)(& message))) << enh::endl()'
Could it be related to the kind of Project I'm using (Command Line Utility - C++ Tool)? It's not specified in the guide.
#963SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Grab the version that Tukez posted on the previous page. He hasn't updated the files on his site with those changes yet.
#964SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Purges
I am unsure if this belongs here or over at Pawns forums, but I figured I'd try here first since I'm producing my values using EnhSim. I guess I'm trying to find out if anybody else is having any problems with either the export string produced by EnhSim or with plugging that string into Pawn itself? I am getting very strange EP numbers when looking at weapons using Pawn's tooltip (I should note, that other gear "appears" to be fine and I am only noticing this error with weapons at the moment, but I haven't extensively used Pawn due to the weapon errors) . I currently dual wield [Angry Dread] and Pawn is giving me a number somewhere in the 200s. Meanwhile when I scroll over older banked weapons like [The Stray] it is assigning a value in the 600s (where the value should be). Pawns default codes (while the values are way off base) are at least giving the correct comparison ranking with the superior weapon having a higher ranking. So I thought it may have to do with the string being spit out by EnhSim.

Anybody else experiencing these issues? On a sidenote, LootRank appears to be functioning fine, but I'd love to get an in-game function so I don't have to constantly alt+tab to compare gear.

Here's the string I produce and plug into Pawn. From my novice opinion, it appears to be fine. Any suggestions much appreciated.

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      4559.61
ap                        1.00      0.52      4663.45        103.83
crit rating               1.65      0.86      4585.37        25.76
hit rating                2.01      1.04      4590.88        31.27
expertise rating          2.50      1.30      4602.24        42.62
haste rating              1.20      0.62      4578.33        18.72
armor penetration rating  1.08      0.56      4576.38        16.77
spellpower                1.13      0.59      4647.87        88.26
mh dps                    5.33      2.77      4580.38        20.76
oh dps                    2.61      1.35      4569.77        10.16
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.64
intelligence              1.44
spirit                    -0.01     -0.00     4558.99        -0.63
mana                      0.00      0.00      4560.01        0.39
mp5                       0.17      0.09      4561.40        1.79

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.65, HitRating=2.01, HasteRating=1.20
, ExpertiseRating=2.50, ArmorPenetration=1.08, SpellDamage=1.13, MainHandDps=5.3
3, OffHandDps=2.61, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.64, Intellect=1.44, Spirit=-0.01, M
ana=0.00, Mp5=0.17 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.20&dps=5.33&mp5=0.17&mcr
=1.65&odps=2.61&spd=1.13&Agi=1.64&mhit=2.01&Int=1.44&Spi=-0.01&map=1.00&arp=1.08
&Exp=2.50

elapsed simulation time: 140000.00h
elapsed real time: 283.53s
simulation speed: 1777583x

Last edited by Purges : 12/10/08 at 11:11 AM.
#965SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Purges View Post
I currently dual wield [Angry Dread] and Pawn is giving me a number somewhere in the 200s. Meanwhile when I scroll over older banked weapons like [The Stray] it is assigning a value in the 600s (where the value should be). Pawns default codes (while the values are way off base) are at least giving the correct comparison ranking with the superior weapon having a higher ranking. So I thought it may have to do with the string being spit out by EnhSim.
First off, I hate you and your RNG luck.

That said, Gratz! on the awesome weapons.

Is it possible that you have the Pawn MH/OH dps values only in place in the Fist weapon slot and not in the general weapon slot?
#966SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Purges View Post
I am unsure if this belongs here or over at Pawns forums, but I figured I'd try here first since I'm producing my values using EnhSim. I guess I'm trying to find out if anybody else is having any problems with either the export string produced by EnhSim or with plugging that string into Pawn itself? I am getting very strange EP numbers when looking at weapons using Pawn's tooltip (I should note, that other gear "appears" to be fine and I am only noticing this error with weapons at the moment, but I haven't extensively used Pawn due to the weapon errors) . I currently dual wield [Angry Dread] and Pawn is giving me a number somewhere in the 200s. Meanwhile when I scroll over older banked weapons like [The Stray] it is assigning a value in the 600s (where the value should be). Pawns default codes (while the values are way off base) are at least giving the correct comparison ranking with the superior weapon having a higher ranking. So I thought it may have to do with the string being spit out by EnhSim.
I believe it's a bug in Pawn, I have noticed the same thing and I think sometimes Pawn just ignores the DPS value on some weapons.
#967SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Purges
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I believe it's a bug in Pawn, I have noticed the same thing and I think sometimes Pawn just ignores the DPS value on some weapons.
Thank you. I thought I was going crazy missing something stupid. Maybe I'll troll Pawns forums to see if its been reported as a bug. Also, thank you very much for your hard work (and everybody else's work) and effort to these forums and producing this amazing sim.
#968SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Grab the version that Tukez posted on the previous page. He hasn't updated the files on his site with those changes yet.
I used that version. Then followed the instructions, still I got the errors. I'm on a G5 Mac with OSX 10.5.5, XCode 3.0
#969SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Staticus
Anyone else getting expertise cap issues? I have 168 rating atm but the sim says I'm over the cap. Even taking the EP range into account (which at 4 would add ~32 rating) that's still less than the cap of 213.

I'm also getting weird haste results atm (<0.5) which in the past have reverted to normal ones (1.3-1.4) with an upgrade or two but then change back to the weird <0.5 values again with the next upgrades.
#970SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3gilf
Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
I used that version. Then followed the instructions, still I got the errors. I'm on a G5 Mac with OSX 10.5.5, XCode 3.0
The errors you are describing are exactly the ones Malan and I found in the old versions.

There were two linked versions on the previous page. The first one suffered those operator problems. Make sure you use the one here:

EnhSim, DPS simulator

I compiled on XCode 3.1 on an Intel chip. I don't think, necessarily, this is the problem, especially considering your errors are identical to the ones Malan and I found.

Which version of GCC are you using with XCode 3.0?

If your code has the errors still, do the search and replace as tukez suggested.
#971SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bart00
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I believe it's a bug in Pawn, I have noticed the same thing and I think sometimes Pawn just ignores the DPS value on some weapons.
Actually that's because Angry Dead is One-Hand, and when you export with EnhSim it only fills the Main-Hand and Off-Hand values, wich are used only by weapons that are Main-Hand only and Off-Hand only. So you have to fill the One-Hand value yourself.
Pawn also can't know if you want that One-Handed to be used on MH or OH.

What I do is make 2 Pawn "profiles", one where One-Hands have the MH DPS value and one where they have the OH DPS value, cause then you know how much it would be worth if you are using Angry Dead and others One-Handed weapons on either the MH or the OH.
#972SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nefastilock
1.5 here
The dps i'm seeing ingame with recount is 200 higher than what i`m getting at the simulator.
Any idea?
#973SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Supradog
I might be missing something vital, but why is 1 ap only valued 1 ep when it's real value is 1 ep +(Spelldmg Ep/3) ?
Is it because it's the baseline for ep calculation, so all ep values is relative to ap with that included bonus?
#974SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Supradog View Post
I might be missing something vital, but why is 1 ap only valued 1 ep when it's real value is 1 ep +(Spelldmg Ep/3) ?
Is it because it's the baseline for ep calculation, so all ep values is relative to ap with that included bonus?
Indeed it is.
#975SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
I'm having an odd problem when I try to use the simulator. Forgive me if this has already been covered in a previous post, but when I try to simulate my current stats, the simulator doesn't include melee damage. No matter what I change to my melee stats, the dps stays at 1350dps or so. The only time this changes is when I increase spell damage or crit, so I'm assuming the simulator is only simulating spellcasts. How can I change this?
#976SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3draizen
pawn low weapon ep

Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I believe it's a bug in Pawn, I have noticed the same thing and I think sometimes Pawn just ignores the DPS value on some weapons.
The low ep on some weapons arent a bug in pawn, this weapons are not MH or OH, thats the problem for pawn. in this cases it takes the normal dps, not MH nor OH dps. since enhsim just gives us MH and OH dps, normal dps value should be empty in most cases.
You can copy your first pawn profile, name it MH and copy the MH-dps into normal weapon dps, same for OH.
its not the best solution since you got 3 values for normal items, but you dont got to add the weapon dps yourself.
sry for my bad english i hope you get the point
#977SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• aers
Originally Posted by Vesham View Post
I'm having an odd problem when I try to use the simulator. Forgive me if this has already been covered in a previous post, but when I try to simulate my current stats, the simulator doesn't include melee damage. No matter what I change to my melee stats, the dps stays at 1350dps or so. The only time this changes is when I increase spell damage or crit, so I'm assuming the simulator is only simulating spellcasts. How can I change this?
Make sure MH and OH autoattack are on; either under "Rotation and Misc" if you use the GUI or "mh_auto_attack 1" and "oh_auto_attack 1" in a config file.

If they're actually on it sounds like a bug of some sort.
#978SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Daenerys
Originally Posted by Vesham View Post
I'm having an odd problem when I try to use the simulator. Forgive me if this has already been covered in a previous post, but when I try to simulate my current stats, the simulator doesn't include melee damage. No matter what I change to my melee stats, the dps stays at 1350dps or so. The only time this changes is when I increase spell damage or crit, so I'm assuming the simulator is only simulating spellcasts. How can I change this?
Make sure you're not prioritizing any casts that are not MW procs. I did that the first time I fiddled with the sim (think I had LB priority instead of LL by accident), so all it did was chain cast LB.
#979SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Nerfbat incoming.

Tukez would you mind creating a separate version of the sim to reflect the proposed changes on the PTR (separate exe files) so we can see how the nerf is potentially going to affect us.

For people who haven't seen it yet.

Mental Quickness: Reduced the mana cost of instant cast Shaman spells by 2/4/6% and increases spell power by an amount equal to 23/46/70% of your agility.

is listed in the PTR patch notes.

WoW -> Test Realm Patch Notes

That's about a 50% reduction in static spellpower and a substantial nerf to our spell damage while raiding considering Battleshout, Unleashed Rage and all the AP trinkets will no longer affect how much spellpower we have.

No need to QQ until we get real numbers though.
#980SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kamileon
I'd be really interested in seeing a new sim with the change to see what it does to values of agi relative to AP and such. My latest simming already puts agi at about 1.8.

I'm less concerned about my overall damage, since I'm the Enh buffbot and already doing less than total potential because I have to bring UR and Imp WF to the raid, as well as doing a lot of pitch in heals from MW, as I am worried about how the spellpower change will affect the utility of the extra healing and in a pinch stuff I do a ton of in 5s and 10s, as well as how I should be choosing gear/gems etc.
#981SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Suryaa
Shaman: Lava Lash - Fixed a bug which allowed you to use the ability even if you had a shield in offhand. Now requires a 1hand axe, fist or dagger to be able to be used.

Hmm mace?
#982SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Zyla
Man, that enh nerf seems way over the top. :<

I'm gonna try to modify the sim to get some rough estimates of dps loss, and I'll be back here to post what I found.

Quick and dirty sim run: (some values of the raid buffs are not accurate (level 70 versions I believe) I was too lazy to update them again to get a sense of things there, perhaps some of it is made back up but:



First is a normal parse with my values seen in my profile armory link, with the old mental quickness. The second is me manually dialing down my spell power (a net loss of ~500 SP) and removing my talent points in the sim from MQ.

Of course this is a very imprecise and quick and dirty comparison, the numbers speak for themselves.

Last edited by Zyla : 12/11/08 at 5:16 PM.
#983SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Zyla View Post
Man, that enh nerf seems way over the top. :<

I'm gonna try to modify the sim to get some rough estimates of dps loss, and I'll be back here to post what I found.

I did some playing with the current sim - basically just unspec mental quickness and then change your spellpower value to what you would get from raidbuffed agility (incl Kings and Mark basically - this won't work if you are using a Darkmoon: Greatness card btw).

We lose about 10% of our dps (~250) solo and unbuffed and about 11% of our current dps in a fully raid buffed situation (~500), based on my rough hackage.

Other then that (lol) it's really not a bad change since it does fix the issue with the need to sim the hell outta offhand weapons to determine upgrades (since fast ones were starting to near the value of slow ones due to Flametongue scaling with all the AP and Haste that is available). It also opens up some room for them to give us personal buffs to go with Unleashed Rage and Improved Windfury Totem. Maybe they will even use it as an opportunity to finally do something about the hidden cooldown on Windfury Weapon.

I can say that this does change the math for Weapon Enchants, without some other changes Goose is back since this change would make it worth 212EP (based on my very rough hackage) compared to Berzerkers 208EP.
#984SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zyla
I kinda hope we get something else to help. I do agree it was completely ridiculous to have 2k spell damage raid buffed as well as having like 5k ap, just from a sense of numbers, but it seemed in line with their "vision".

I suppose the bottom line is that we're still fine but it feels pretty harsh.

Seems like it also makes the Darkmoon card undeniably best in slot.
#985SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Zyla View Post
I kinda hope we get something else to help. I do agree it was completely ridiculous to have 2k spell damage raid buffed as well as having like 5k ap, just from a sense of numbers, but it seemed in line with their "vision".

I suppose the bottom line is that we're still fine but it feels pretty harsh.

Seems like it also makes the Darkmoon card undeniably best in slot.
The change isn't about us, the change is about nerfing the Ele/Enh spec that was debunked as crap awhile back.
#986SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• aers
Doing the same thing Zyla did to test the nerf, I'm going from 5173 to 4473 on the sim, which is something like 13.5%.

I guess I need to get a Greatness card now.
#987SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Timewasted
I updated the sim with the PTR changes, and adjusted my spell power down from 1077 to 620 (3592 AP, 885 agi), and the result was only a 250 DPS loss.

Live:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1618.75   33.81%    82.92
windfury            599.32    12.52%    6.28
flametongue         505.22    10.55%    51.74
stormstrike         292.40    6.11%     6.67      36.76     28.11%
lava lash           168.51    3.52%     8.18      16.35     12.51%
earth shock         577.84    12.07%    8.65      30.82     23.57%
lightning bolt      798.80    16.69%    8.23      46.82     35.81%
lightning shield    226.67    4.73%     0.78      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4787.53
MPS                 130.75
MP2min              15689.47
MRPS                101.04
Out of mana time    0.03%
PTR:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1616.26   35.69%    82.91
windfury            600.80    13.27%    6.29
flametongue         443.87    9.8%      51.71
stormstrike         292.45    6.46%     6.67      36.76     28.10%
lava lash           168.41    3.72%     8.18      16.34     12.49%
earth shock         516.05    11.4%     8.65      30.83     23.57%
lightning bolt      690.51    15.25%    8.25      46.89     35.84%
lightning shield    200.21    4.42%     0.79      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4528.58
MPS                 130.82
MP2min              15698.15
MRPS                101.03
Out of mana time    0.03%
This is my first time actually looking at the source, so it's possible that there's still some AP --> spellpower conversion that I didn't remove, or AGI --> spellpower conversions that I didn't add, but I'm reasonably confident that I didn't miss anything.

Edit: None of this matters anyways, since Blizzard changed their mind about changing Mental Quickness already.

Last edited by Timewasted : 12/11/08 at 8:20 PM.
#988SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zyla
It's been reverted!
#989SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
I love the fact that I told Blizz during Beta that they needed to move MQ further down the tree to fix that stupid Elemental spec.
#990SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Radditz
quick question for enh spelldamage input.. should i input spelldamge without or with FT applied
#991SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ardonomus
Regarding the negative haste values.

I just downloaded the newest sim and figured I'd finally redo my EP values, but when I did I had a negative value for haste (and expertise, but that's because I sat expertise to -10).

I fiddled around a little with it, and I noticed I had a very low (but not negative!) value for haste when I checked the Naxx_melee_2 setbonus. However, I got a negative value when I used the Naxx_melee_4 bonus. Could it be an issue with these bonuses or flurry, or is it simply as people have suggested, RNG?
#992SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Negative haste value is problem of windfury cd. When main hand goes down 1.5s wf procs goes down. Becouse mongoose isn't allways up there is about 4% range where haste have reduced value. This value can be also negative. Try without haste buffs, passive haste, mongoose and flurry using 1.5s main hand. Then run sim. You will get negative haste value for sure becouse effective Wf proc goes down at 16.66% to 14.28%.
#993SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3phasedweasel
Originally Posted by Zyla View Post
It's been reverted!
Can you link the source on that, please?
#994SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Acks
Originally Posted by phasedweasel View Post
Can you link the source on that, please?
Source


Worth noting the change to the LB glyph insofar as the next iteration of EnhSim is concerned:

Glyph of Lightning Bolt -- No longer affects cost. Now increases damage by 4%.

Source
#995SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tanfel
Hi everyone,

I am kind of new at this forum so sorry for that maybe stupid question.

I cant run the simulator, because my Computer still has no SSE2, so i wanted to ask, if it is possible to get it run in any other ways or if there are simple alternatives to it.

Thanks
#996SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• aers
From PTR 3.0.8 Build 9355 :

Glyph of Windfury Weapon - Increases the chance per swing for Windfury Weapon to trigger by 5%. (Old - The attack power bonus on the additional attacks granted by Windfury Weapon is increased by 40%.)
#997SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lumb
Hey tukaz, just to let you know:

You've listed the trinket "Bandit's_Insignia" as "Bandits_Insignia", and as a result it doesn't appear automatically when you export from ShockAndAwe
#998SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Leviathon
Originally Posted by aers View Post
I can see the glyph change being a hint to them changing WF to mainhand only and removing the cooldown.

Last edited by Leviathon : 12/13/08 at 10:43 AM.
#999SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
New wf glyph will boost singe wield wf damage about 15.4-20%. This is about ~2% dps increase. Math behind these numbes are simple. After all haste effect with slower than 1.5s weapon we actual proc chance is 16.666% and with that glyph it's 20%. If main hand hit faster than 1.5s then numbers are 14.44% and 16.66%.
0.2 / 0.1666... = 1.2
0.16666... / 0.1444... = 1.1538

Then if wf damage is about 10-15% total damage this give about ~2% damage increase. Increased wf hits also give some benefit to damage I can guess this is around +1%. Much better that before.
#1000SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Staticus
Would this also make totem of splintering more viable too? (still carrying stonebreakers and have yet to see dueling drop in naxx)
#1001SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Canopener
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
New wf glyph will boost singe wield wf damage about 15.4-20%. This is about ~2% dps increase. Math behind these numbes are simple. After all haste effect with slower than 1.5s weapon we actual proc chance is 16.666% and with that glyph it's 20%. If main hand hit faster than 1.5s then numbers are 14.44% and 16.66%.
0.2 / 0.1666... = 1.2
0.16666... / 0.1444... = 1.1538

Then if wf damage is about 10-15% total damage this give about ~2% damage increase. Increased wf hits also give some benefit to damage I can guess this is around +1%. Much better that before.
Are you sure this is correct? As it was stated in the 'bible', not all attacks can proc WF, and not all misses could have been a potential WF proc. Just because we get 80% of our 20% proc rate now with a slow 1 handed weapon, doesn't mean we will get 80% of our 25% proc rate in the next patch, right?

Of course if it does work out to a 20% proc rate, that tells me they have no plans to ever take WF off the CD, as it will essentially have the 20% stated proc rate we should have been getting all along.
#1002SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sado
Is there any data from the sim to support whether the Totem of Splintering or the Totem of Dueling is better?
#1003SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Sado View Post
Is there any data from the sim to support whether the Totem of Splintering or the Totem of Dueling is better?
They are in the sim, run it and see.

Splintering is a PoS btw, even with the new glyph it's still a PoS.

Wait for the new PvP ones, even the Blue is better then any of our current options (I think - but it's close enough that if you don't have Dueling you won't miss it).
#1004SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Otoswrath
comparing angry dread from noth 25, to the stray from 10man trash. Both used in the OH i'm getting a 29dps increase in favor of the stray even though the decline in stats and a difference of only 0.1 weapon speed. My question is what exactly is it about that 0.1 speed that makes up so much in favor of this weapon?
#1005SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Enhsim really seems to prefer matched weapon speeds.

For example I ran the sim with my stats, with 2.5/2.6, 2.6/2.6, 2.7/2.6 weapon speeds with wf/ft and mongoose/mongoose.
2.5/2.6: 4067.60 dps
2.6/2.6: 4137.82 dps
2.7/2.6: 4106.80 dps

Looking into the breakdown to find the source of the dps increase, and it appears to be a higher flurry uptime.
2.5/2.6: 84.90%
2.6/2.6: 91.89%
2.7/2.6: 85.05%

Is this something that other people see with their stats? Is it a real mechanic, or a bug in the sim?
#1006SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Vesham
Originally Posted by Otoswrath View Post
comparing angry dread from noth 25, to the stray from 10man trash. Both used in the OH i'm getting a 29dps increase in favor of the stray even though the decline in stats and a difference of only 0.1 weapon speed. My question is what exactly is it about that 0.1 speed that makes up so much in favor of this weapon?
There's no way I could see that happening unless you forgot to change the dps of the Angry Dread to 156.6 (as compared to The Stray's 143.5). The stats on each weapon are about equal, but Angry Dread has a clear advantage in terms of dps and weapon damage range.

Last edited by Vesham : 12/14/08 at 11:32 AM.
#1007SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
Enhsim really seems to prefer matched weapon speeds.

For example I ran the sim with my stats, with 2.5/2.6, 2.6/2.6, 2.7/2.6 weapon speeds with wf/ft and mongoose/mongoose.
2.5/2.6: 4067.60 dps
2.6/2.6: 4137.82 dps
2.7/2.6: 4106.80 dps

Looking into the breakdown to find the source of the dps increase, and it appears to be a higher flurry uptime.
2.5/2.6: 84.90%
2.6/2.6: 91.89%
2.7/2.6: 85.05%

Is this something that other people see with their stats? Is it a real mechanic, or a bug in the sim?
It is flurry mechanics i believe. With equal speed unless you get parries flurry gives you 4 hasted attacks instead of 3.
#1008SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Atren View Post
It is flurry mechanics i believe. With equal speed unless you get parries flurry gives you 4 hasted attacks instead of 3.
Except I thought that was disproved a long time back?
#1009SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Except I thought that was disproved a long time back?
If it was i missed it. Anyways, consensus was it was more complicated than what i wrote if i recall right.
#1010SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Otoswrath
definitely changing the dps when I change the weapon speeds which is why I am so confused and thought it might a bug, I checked the rest of the damage brake down and it seemed that for some reason the sim with the slower OH had more white damage it also had more SS and WF damage even after about 5 runs which confused me because angry dread has a higher min/max damage so SS should be larger and OH speed shouldn't affect MH wf's as far as I know
#1011SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3mofunz
Im getting a similar problem to some others who have an issue with the expertise cap. My version appears to be capped at 181. I haven't changed boss dodge values at all.

I've deleted the entire folder and rar file (aside from my exported configuration from Shock&Awe which I saved as config_new, if that makes any difference), and re-downloaded. Im definitely using the enhsim.exe path which leads to the newest version of the file, created Monday, December 08, 2008, 9:08:10 PM.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
#1012SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
It would be interesting to look at the old research on the flurry subject. It appears there is something real with the flurry uptime differences.

I got some low level weapons from the auction house that have no meaningful stats and auto-attacked for 30 minutes on the grandmaster's training dummy.

sim: 2.7/2.7 63% flurry uptime
live: 2.7/2.7 61% flurry uptime

sim: 2.8/2.7 52% flurry uptime
live: 2.8/2.7 56% flurry uptime

One thing I noticed is that enhsim seems to start the weapons in phase, and they stay there if they have the same speed. On live they start out about half a swing out of phase, but eventually get in phase and once they get in phase, they stay in phase. They got in-phase after several minutes on the combat dummy.

I think in-phase weapons would have higher up-time because flurry would proc/fade on both weapons at the same time, so you have more swings with the flurry buff.

I saved a combat log that shows when they first get in phase, and how flurry interacts.
12/14 13:41:05.760  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,222,221,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/14 13:41:05.993  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,449,448,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/14 13:41:07.526  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Tramana",0x511,"Tramana",0x511,16280,"Flurry",0x1,BUFF
12/14 13:41:07.760  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,467,466,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil  (crit)
12/14 13:41:08.027  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,448,447,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/14 13:41:08.293  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,"Tramana",0x511,"Tramana",0x511,16280,"Flurry",0x1,BUFF
12/14 13:41:10.365  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,467,466,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil  (crit)
12/14 13:41:10.365  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,923,922,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil  (crit)
12/14 13:41:10.644  SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,nil,0x80000000,"Tramana",0x511,16280,"Flurry",0x1,BUFF
12/14 13:41:12.165  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,221,220,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/14 13:41:12.165  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,448,447,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/14 13:41:14.368  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,453,452,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/14 13:41:14.368  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,464,463,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil  (crit)
12/14 13:41:16.367  SWING_MISSED,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,MISS
12/14 13:41:16.367  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,462,461,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/14 13:41:18.201  SWING_DAMAGE,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,465,464,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/14 13:41:18.201  SWING_MISSED,"Tramana",0x511,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0x10a28,DODGE
12/14 13:41:20.400  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Tramana",0x511,"Tramana",0x511,16280,"Flurry",0x1,BUFF
Every time I stop, and restart combat my weapons start out of phase. It seems like enhsim should do the same, or else it will overvalue matched weapon speed configurations.
#1013SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Otoswrath
good work this is what I was wondering, you said it took you a few minutes to get 'in phase' this would mean that for any real boss fight, especially non static ones you're very unlikely to get in phase and the amount of flurry uptime difference made by having such a small difference in weapon speed would be negligible at best?
#1014SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kristaps
While many people test out different weapon speeds, I was wondering what is the best weapon setup as of now. Calamity's Grasp in main hand, of course, but Angry Dread or Sinister Revenge in offhand? I tried running the enhSim, and it gave slightly higher more dps with the Sinister Revenge, what did you guys get?
#1015SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
The LootRank export string is screwing up the ArmorPen value everytime I export it.

http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.89&dps=5.88&mp5=0.00&mcr=1.89&odps=2.58&spd=1.00&Agi=1.77&mhit=2.53&Int=1.47&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.20&Exp=2.78
That string is somehow translating ArmorPen into some crazy values like 84.000000 when I view it in Lootrank.
#1016SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
• Zyla
Originally Posted by kristaps View Post
While many people test out different weapon speeds, I was wondering what is the best weapon setup as of now. Calamity's Grasp in main hand, of course, but Angry Dread or Sinister Revenge in offhand? I tried running the enhSim, and it gave slightly higher more dps with the Sinister Revenge, what did you guys get?
I'm actually getting The Stray as the optimal offhand, which seems to be solely because of the sim using a 4 charge if synced model for Flurry. If this has been disproven, then the sim needs to be changed because it is outputting about a 60-70 dps change at the high end as a bonus purely for syncing the speed.

I tried to create a workaround to get the actual dps for the linked weapons by causing them to desync by making the mainhand speed 2.5999999~, which places Sinister Revenge first with Angry Dread second and The Stray about 25dps behind total.

Fake Edit:

I decided to try to finagle a 100% flurry uptime by just giving myself 100% crit (6.22% haste)

Results were :

2.6/2.6 : 6239.30 dps
2.6/2.5 : 6220 dps
2.6/1.8 : 6191 dps

Same dps (171.4/143.7)

Additional Testing, changing the variable dps to match the items
2.6/2.6(143.7dps) = 6240
2.6/2.5(156.6dps) = 6239
2.6/1.8(171.1dps) = 6231

Interesting stuff, and I can't seem to isolate why it matters that much, whether it's a bug in the sim or something else, it appears to be unrelated to flurry if its bugged or not.

Clarification edit: I was too lazy to change the stat values of the items beyond what was already on The Stray, so higher other stats based on your EP values will also increase dps.

The gist seems to be that none of the three are bad choices but they're all roughly equal.

Last edited by Zyla : 12/15/08 at 2:24 AM.
#1017SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Perty
Currently unable to run the sim on my laptop for some reason, but I'd imagine that [Last Laugh] is superior dps due to being 1.6spd (even with the obvious tank stats). Has anyone with a working sim tried the calamity / laugh combo?


Many thanks for the sim and all the work put into enh theorycraft, it has saved me oodles of time lately.
#1018SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Zyla View Post
I decided to try to finagle a 100% flurry uptime by just giving myself 100% crit (6.22% haste)
100% crit isn't enough to get 100% flurry uptime because of misses, glancing blows and dodges. I got 96.97% uptime with 100% crit, and unmatched weapon speeds while matched weapon speeds gave me a 98.99% uptime.

A better way to see if there is a matched weapon speed effect without flurry is to give 0 talent points to flurry.

5/5 flurry
2.6/2.5 4131.52 dps
2.6/2.6 4172.81 dps
2.6/2.7 4143.24 dps

0/5 flurry
2.6/2.5 3662.65 dps
2.6/2.6 3670.32 dps
2.6/2.7 3676.42 dps

It sure seems like most of the effect is from flurry. Could you try it again without flurry with your stats?
#1019SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
• Zyla
Originally Posted by Perty View Post
Currently unable to run the sim on my laptop for some reason, but I'd imagine that [Last Laugh] is superior dps due to being 1.6spd (even with the obvious tank stats). Has anyone with a working sim tried the calamity / laugh combo?


Many thanks for the sim and all the work put into enh theorycraft, it has saved me oodles of time lately.
Actually, it's even worse using the same 100% crit model as before.

I get 6181.5 dps for that weapon's dps and speed. Of course, it will be less than this because it lacks the dps stats as well.

I think the bottom line on that one is that it's bad. Just completely bad. The amount you gain in flametongue does not make up for less from stormstrike and lash.

edit: ran thru a comparison of the weapons using my stats, 100% crit rate and 0% miss/dodge/glancing, to assure full flurry uptime, and eliminate modeling "noise". Again, using the other stats of the stray.

The Stray: 7048
Angry Dread: 7074
Sinister Revenge: 7097
Mythical 171.1 dps 2.6 speed fist: 7102

This type of test seems kind of stupid and inaccurate for other reasons, but I can't really articulate why or anything.

Last edited by Zyla : 12/15/08 at 3:20 AM.
#1020SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kristaps
So your point being is that all 3 offhands (Stray, Angry Dead and Sinister Revenge) are of the same quality and I shouldn't bother getting others if I have Angry Dead now (using it as main hand now though, waiting on Calamity's Grasp)?
#1021SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Zyla
Well, if the last test I did has any sort of significance, it appears that Sinister Revenge is best in slot, by a small margin. If you have AD, you're pretty set, although you might want to grab SR if the rogues don't mind.
#1022SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kristaps
Originally Posted by Zyla View Post
Well, if the last test I did has any sort of significance, it appears that Sinister Revenge is best in slot, by a small margin. If you have AD, you're pretty set, although you might want to grab SR if the rogues don't mind.
Well, we have like 2 rogues, one of them is still a trial, and both of them are interested in Calamity's Grasp ^^ Thanks for your help.

On a side note - I made the best gear list I could find (chardev.org v4 - A World of Warcraft character planner - template #106684), but I don't trust my character development skills that much (regarding expertise cap - planning to eat 40expertise rating food). Anyone has some advices on it or has his own, better gear wishlist?
#1023SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by kristaps View Post
Well, we have like 2 rogues, one of them is still a trial, and both of them are interested in Calamity's Grasp ^^ Thanks for your help.
Seeing as Sinister Revenge is a fast dagger that you'd use in the OH, and Calamity's Grasp is a slow MH, I'm not really sure how that matters.
#1024SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stolf
I must say, great job everyone of you with all these calculations and stuff

Anyway, one thing is bothering me, and it is that, isn't a fast weapon "better" than a slow weapon with equal dps/stats and whatever? Since, doesn't the faster weapon procc Static shock and flurry more often because it swings faster? (I'm kinda new to this so correct my flaws, might've missed something etc.) Would be glad with a response!
Keep up the good work, cheers!


-/stolf
#1025SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Stolf View Post
I must say, great job everyone of you with all these calculations and stuff

Anyway, one thing is bothering me, and it is that, isn't a fast weapon "better" than a slow weapon with equal dps/stats and whatever? Since, doesn't the faster weapon procc Static shock and flurry more often because it swings faster? (I'm kinda new to this so correct my flaws, might've missed something etc.) Would be glad with a response!
Keep up the good work, cheers!


-/stolf
Faster weapons:
-increased static shock procs
-better FT scaling

Slower weapons:
-higher SS/WF/LL damage
-higher flurry uptime (because SS/WF proc but don't consume flurry)
-more MW procs (ppm mechanic interaction with yellow attacks)

All else being equal, slow is better.
#1026SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Stolf View Post
I must say, great job everyone of you with all these calculations and stuff

Anyway, one thing is bothering me, and it is that, isn't a fast weapon "better" than a slow weapon with equal dps/stats and whatever? Since, doesn't the faster weapon procc Static shock and flurry more often because it swings faster? (I'm kinda new to this so correct my flaws, might've missed something etc.) Would be glad with a response!
Keep up the good work, cheers!

-/stolf
Why on earth do you need to ask this, especially in this thread, USE THE SIM!!!

This has been asked and answered a 1001 times, the answers are in the Think Tank article and the sim will provide personalised answers.
#1027SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Enhsim tells me that including MW4_LB and MW3_LB in the priority list improves my dps. The enhancement TTT says that casting with less than 5 stacks resets the swing timer. Since these seem to be at odds, I wanted to test this out.

I took a 2 handed weapon 3.58 speed (including my haste) to make testing the mechanic easier. I have about 200ms latency. My lightning bolt has a 2.42 second cast time according to the tooltip.

Here are a few examples from the combatlog.
0 maelstrom -- 9.407 between swings, 3.4 seconds between spell damage and swing.
12/16 13:30:45.798 SWING_DAMAGE
12/16 13:30:49.207 SPELL_CAST_START,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 13:30:51.835 SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 13:30:55.205 SWING_DAMAGE
0 maelstrom -- 6.14 seconds between swings, 3.4 seconds between spell damage and swing
12/16 15:05:19.900 SWING_DAMAGE
12/16 15:05:19.970 SPELL_CAST_START, "Lightning Bolt"
12/16 15:05:22.594 SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 15:05:26.036 SWING_DAMAGE
1 maelstrom -- 3.6 seconds between swings
12/16 15:20:55.509 SWING_DAMAGE
12/16 15:20:55.867 SPELL_CAST_START,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 15:20:56.114 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED, "Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
12/16 15:20:58.185 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
12/16 15:20:58.242 SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lightning Bolt",0x8,2818,2817,8,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
12/16 15:20:59.097 SWING_DAMAGE
2 maelstrom -- 2.7 seconds between flurry hasted swings
12/16 14:28:27.329 SWING_DAMAGE
12/16 14:28:27.831 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF,2
12/16 14:28:27.841 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,"Flurry"
12/16 14:28:30.281 SWING_DAMAGE
12/16 14:28:30.385 SPELL_CAST_START,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 14:28:31.889 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Maelstrom Weapon"
12/16 14:28:32.141 SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 14:28:32.979 SWING_DAMAGE
3 maelstrom -- 3.6 seconds between swings
12/16 13:29:50.519 SWING_DAMAGE
12/16 13:29:50.770 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE,"Maelstrom Weapon"
12/16 13:29:52.519 SPELL_CAST_START,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 13:29:53.530 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Maelstrom Weapon"
12/16 13:29:53.839 SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 13:29:54.090 SWING_DAMAGE
4 maelstrom -- 7.31 seconds between swings (I timed the cast to clip the weapon swing)
12/16 14:58:14.949 SWING_DAMAGE
12/16 14:58:15.854 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF,4
12/16 14:58:17.044 SPELL_CAST_START"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 14:58:18.681 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
12/16 14:58:18.991 SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 14:58:22.259 SWING_DAMAGE
Conclusions:
  • With 0 stacks of MW, the swing timer gets reset when you cast a spell.
  • With 1+ stacks of MW, the swing timer continues to run, and can clip weapon swings (much like the old warrior slam mechanic)
  • With 5 stacks of MW, the spell cast is instant so it doesn't interact with the swing.

Then I checked enhsim to see what mechanic it uses:
1 maelstrom -- 5.5 seconds between swings
0h 0m 0s MH crit 1896.49
0h 0m 0s Maelstrom Weapon stacks (1)
0h 0m 0.19s Casting started
0h 0m 1.91s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 2.12s Lightning Bolt hit 1827.39
0h 0m 5.5s MH glancing 684.968
2 maelstrom -- 5.01 seconds between swings
0h 0m 7.14s MH crit 2015.76
0h 0m 7.14s Maelstrom Weapon stacks (2)
0h 0m 7.33s Casting started
0h 0m 8.77s Lightning Bolt crit 3401.82
0h 0m 9.05s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 12.15s MH crit 2015.76
Looks like Enhsim pauses the swing timer during casts with MW stacks. It's hard to say which way this would bias rotations which use MW4_LB and MW3_LB. It would be nice if someone could try to reproduce what I'm seeing in my combatlog.
#1028SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
Enhsim tells me that including MW4_LB and MW3_LB in the priority list improves my dps. The enhancement TTT says that casting with less than 5 stacks resets the swing timer. Since these seem to be at odds, I wanted to test this out.
I've reported this a few times and even pmed Toots about the error.

I didn't get the clipping you are seeing with my testing on the Beta server though.

They changed the slam mechanism and I assumed they used the same one for MW especially since it worked that way for me.

Basically it just pauses the swing timer when you try to cast a spell with even a single stack of MW. It's not really possible to clip it since it should just be pausing the timer.

Try this test - wait 2 seconds after a swing hit and then start your cast with only 1-2 stacks of MW so that the cast time definitely clips the swing timer. You will see the spell cast and then the swing hit right after as if it was paused during the cast.

That was what I saw when I did the testing and that was what I reported back then. If it is clipping the swing timer when they both would go off exactly at the same time then it is something that definitely needs more testing.
#1029SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Is it actually pausing the swing timer for stacks 1-4? If so then the wiki article is definitely worded wrong, as right now I have it stating that it completely resets it.
#1030SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Is it actually pausing the swing timer for stacks 1-4? If so then the wiki article is definitely worded wrong, as right now I have it stating that it completely resets it.
from my experience and testing it pauses it, not reset.
#1031SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Look at my 4 maelstrom case. It looks like it's clipping. I'll retest to confirm for other maelstrom stacks timed to clip.
#1032SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
Look at my 4 maelstrom case. It looks like it's clipping. I'll retest to confirm for other maelstrom stacks timed to clip.

Even if it can clip, and I think that is something else since I was intentionally trying to clip with only a 1-2 stack when I did my original testing, it is still irrelevant to Malan's question.

It pauses the swing timer since if it reset it then there wouldn't be any question of clipping or not.

If you try to cast a spell without any stacks of MW the swing timer is reset completely, even if the cast was quick quick enough to fit inside a single swing of your weapon. That isn't what is happening with even a single stack of MW so the wiki needs to be updated.
#1033SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Tramana
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Even if it can clip, and I think that is something else since I was intentionally trying to clip with only a 1-2 stack when I did my original testing, it is still irrelevant to Malan's question.

It pauses the swing timer since if it reset it then there wouldn't be any question of clipping or not.

If you try to cast a spell without any stacks of MW the swing timer is reset completely, even if the cast was quick quick enough to fit inside a single swing of your weapon. That isn't what is happening with even a single stack of MW so the wiki needs to be updated.
Here is a MW2_LB clipping the swing.
12/16 22:49:55.388 SWING_DAMAGE
12/16 22:49:55.940 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF,2
12/16 22:49:57.774 SPELL_CAST_START,"Lightning Bolt",0x8
12/16 22:49:59.388 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
12/16 22:49:59.698 SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lightning Bolt"
12/16 22:50:02.665 SWING_DAMAGE
From my paper doll I have a 3.52 second swing. From the tooltip for LB, Maelstrom Weapon x2 gives a 1.43 cast time.

If the swing timer is pausing the time between swings should be 3.52 + 1.43 = 4.95.
If the swing timer is clipping the time between swing should be 3.52*2 = 7.04.

The measured time between swings from the combatlog is 7.277. This fits with all the other data I've collected where the swing is not delayed if you can fit the cast in between swings, but you get a big delay if the cast falls on a swing.

Last edited by Tramana : 12/17/08 at 3:11 AM. Reason: spelling
#1034SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
The measured time between swings from the combatlog is 7.277. This fits with all the other data I've collected where the swing is not delayed if you can fit the cast in between swings, but you get a big delay if the cast falls on a swing.
I started testing with the purpose of either proving you wrong or figuring out where I went wrong and instead I found something really interesting and a bit strange.

Try this out.

Hop on the PTR and remove all your talents.
Go over to the Targeting Dummy with your slow 2-hander.
Start autoattack.
Cast a Lava Burst right after a swing so that it should be able to fit inside the swingtimer.
Notice that your swingtimer reset.

Spec talents so that you have at least 1 point in MW.
Try the same thing again, using Lava Burst and without any charges of MW.
Notice that the Swingtimer doesn't reset if the cast fits inside the swing time.
Doesn't matter if you have charges of MW or even what spell you use.

It's not the charges that determine if the swingtimer resets it's whether you specced the talent or not.

The swingtimer does reset if it gets clipped though, you are right about that part. Something changed between my initial testing and now. I did the testing back when Lava Burst was usable with MW, before it would work with heals and before the charges were gained through the PPM mechanic so I guess they just coded the whole thing differently from how it worked when I initially tested it (either that or I just suck at testing, which is a distinct possibility).
#1035SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
This would mean, that the chance of a MW_4 LB reseting our swing timer is rather low if you use two slow weapons and that probably using MW with 4 charges could result in an dps increase over today's MW_5 LB priority.
#1036SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by SentinelBorg View Post
This would mean, that the chance of a MW_4 LB reseting our swing timer is rather low if you use two slow weapons and that probably using MW with 4 charges could result in an dps increase over today's MW_5 LB priority.

I'm actually thinking that could be wrong but I'm not sure how to model it. If either weapon tries to swing before the cast is complete the swingtimers for both should be reset. Whether the chance of them being reset is going to be a dps decrease is a question I'll leave to the smarter members of our community to answer.
#1037SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3HeeroTheShaman
MAc Update

I'd like to see a mac update for the new consumables and such, or is there a way to edit it to update it?

I downloaded the newest windows one, and moved the new source files into the mac ones, but it didn't do anything (i don't know anything about MAc coding, just thought it might work.)
#1038SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I'm actually thinking that could be wrong but I'm not sure how to model it. If either weapon tries to swing before the cast is complete the swingtimers for both should be reset. Whether the chance of them being reset is going to be a dps decrease is a question I'll leave to the smarter members of our community to answer.
The best thing would be to update the code of the simulator with your findings.
#1039SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Originally Posted by HeeroTheShaman View Post
I'd like to see a mac update for the new consumables and such, or is there a way to edit it to update it?

I downloaded the newest windows one, and moved the new source files into the mac ones, but it didn't do anything (i don't know anything about MAc coding, just thought it might work.)
Yah you can't just do that, once the binary is compiled it no longer references the source files. You'll have to recompile on OS X every time Tukez puts out a new version, and he hasn't done so since the 1.50 release that he included some changes so that OS X can compile it properly.
#1040SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3scalax
Hello all.

I'm currently experiencing a problem with the last version of EnhSim (1.5.0)
Basically when i try to calculate my EP i'm getting this error

ep_mp5 not found from config.
ep_spirit not found from config.
ep_mana not found from config.
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left not found from config.
spi not found from config.
arcane_resistance not found from config.
shadow_resistance not found from config.
max_mana not found from config.
mp5 not found from config.
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left not found from config.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.Calculation 2/14: Attack power calcula
ted.

Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calcul
ated.

Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.Calculation 6/14: Expertise calculated.

Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculate
d.

Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.

Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2086
ap                        1         0         2100           14
crit rating               2         1         2100           14
hit rating                3         1         2104           18
expertise rating          2         1         2103           17
haste rating              1         0         2095           9
armor penetration rating  1         0         2091           5
spellpower                1         0         2093           7
mh dps                    5         2         2100           14
oh dps                    3         1         2094           8
strength                  1
agility                   2
intelligence*             1
spirit                    0         0         0              -2086
mana                      0         0         0              -2086
mp5                       0         0         0              -2086

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1, CritRating=2, HitRating=3, HasteRating=1, ExpertiseR
ating=2, ArmorPenetration=1, SpellDamage=1, MainHandDps=5, OffHandDps=3, Strengt
h=1, Agility=2, Intellect=1, Spirit=0, Mana=0, Mp5=0 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1&mh=1&dps=5&mp5=0&mcr=2&odps=3&sp
d=1&Agi=2&mhit=3&Int=1&Spi=0&map=1&arp=1&Exp=2

elapsed simulation time: 11000h
elapsed real time: 46s
simulation speed: 864704x
My configuration file is the following:
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         180
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    0
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         
ep_spirit                       
ep_mp5                          

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               
shadow_resistance               

armor_debuff_major              0/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           0/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          143.2
oh_dps                          130.2
mh_crit                         25.48
oh_crit                         25.48
mh_hit                          6.59
oh_hit                          6.59
mh_expertise_rating             12
oh_expertise_rating             17
ap                              3044
haste                           3.69
armor_penetration               4.87
str                             131
agi                             704
int                             454
spi                             
spellpower                      1187
spell_crit                      19.03
spell_hit                       8.23
max_mana                        
mp5                             

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        sphere_of_red_dragons_blood
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    lava_lash

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
What i did wrong ?
#1041SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
You can't just blank out the values, tukez has a specific format to indicate a zero or null value. You need to either use a 0 or a - to indicate these things. Check the annotated config file for the full list of what options you can use.
#1042SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by scalax View Post
What i did wrong ?
The other thing is that you only set it to 1 degree of precision for the EP values, up it to 3 degrees and the results will look better.
#1043SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3HeeroTheShaman
So Malan, how do i recompile?
#1044SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Originally Posted by HeeroTheShaman View Post
So Malan, how do i recompile?
EnhSim: Compiling and building EnhSim
#1045SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Gartixxar
I was running the simulator to get new EP values since I had not run this simulator in a week or 2 and my gear has changed a fair bit since then.

and heres what I put in

simulation_time                 200000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    3
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    0
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              FS
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925
/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260
/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0
/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0
/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0
/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688
/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0
/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0
/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0
/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0
/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0
/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280
/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0
/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0
/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0
/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0
/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0
/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52
/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178
/178
intellect_buff                  60
/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          
-
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.50
oh_speed                        1.60
mh_dps                          143.6
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         27.30
oh_crit                         27.30
mh_hit                          11.13
oh_hit                          11.13
mh_expertise_rating             209.00
oh_expertise_rating             209.00
ap                              3331
haste                           2.65
armor_penetration               0.00
str                             133
agi                             709















int                             424
spi                             153
spellpower                      1273
spell_crit                      22.62
spell_hit                       13.91
max_mana                        10476
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        
-

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       
-
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        sphere_of_red_dragons_blood

totem                           totem_of_splintering

set_bonus                       
-

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    
-
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3
/3
mental_dexterity                3
/3
shamanistic_focus               1
/1
flurry                          5
/5
elemental_weapons               3
/3
unleashed_rage                  0
/5
weapon_mastery                  3
/3
dual_wield_specialization       3
/3
mental_quickness                3
/3
improved_stormstrike            2
/2
static_shock                    3
/3
maelstrom_weapon                5
/5

convection                      2
/5
concussion                      5
/5
call_of_flame                   0
/3
elemental_devastation           3
/3
reverberation                   0
/5
elemental_focus                 1
/1
elemental_fury                  5
/5
call_of_thunder                 0
/1
unrelenting_storm               0
/5
elemental_precision             0
/3
lightning_mastery               0
/5
elemental_oath                  0
/2
lightning_overload              0
/5
lava_flows                      0
/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0
/

The EP values I get are:


ap            1.00
crit          1.62
hit           3.10
expertise     0.00
(capped)
haste         1.57
armor pen     1.22
Mh dps        7.24
oh dps        2.76
strength      1.10
agility       1.79
int           1.37 

For the most part, those seem right to me, what is bugging me is agility has a higher value then crit, is there something I am doing wrong or is the simulator correct ? I turned off Mana simulation because it always kept giving me 5.0 for intellect.
#1046SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
Originally Posted by Gartixxar View Post
I was running the simulator to get new EP values since I had not run this simulator in a week or 2 and my gear has changed a fair bit since then.

For the most part, those seem right to me, what is bugging me is agility has a higher value then crit, is there something I am doing wrong or is the simulator correct ? I turned off Mana simulation because it always kept giving me 5.0 for intellect.
You don't have an imbue on your off-hand. Add that and it will increase the value of crit substantially since FT can crit, but agi won't up that.
#1047SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Golnar
How do I get the new consumables working? I have 1.5.0 downloaded.
#1048SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
What consumables are you talking about?
#1049SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Golnar
I've tried putting in Elixir of Expertise, Elixir of Mighty Thought, Snapper Extreme, and Flask of Endless Rage. All say it couldn't be found for me.
#1050SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Please tell me that you aren't actually typing "Flask of Endless Rage" into the config file.
#1051SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
If you're using the GUI make sure to update the enhsim.exe path to the new 1.5 executable.
#1052SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Tramana
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I started testing with the purpose of either proving you wrong or figuring out where I went wrong and instead I found something really interesting and a bit strange.

Try this out.

Hop on the PTR and remove all your talents.
Go over to the Targeting Dummy with your slow 2-hander.
Start autoattack.
Cast a Lava Burst right after a swing so that it should be able to fit inside the swingtimer.
Notice that your swingtimer reset.

Spec talents so that you have at least 1 point in MW.
Try the same thing again, using Lava Burst and without any charges of MW.
Notice that the Swingtimer doesn't reset if the cast fits inside the swing time.
Doesn't matter if you have charges of MW or even what spell you use.

It's not the charges that determine if the swingtimer resets it's whether you specced the talent or not.
This is interesting. I showed in an earlier post that lightning bolt needs to have at least one stack of Maelstrom Weapon to not reset the swing timer. Because you're reporting different behavior for Lava Burst on PTR, I tested this out on live

1.81 sec cast Lava Bolt (using WoA to speed up the cast so it's less likely to clip)
3.52 sec swing time

No Maelstrom, timed to not clip:
    12/18 09:41:44.492  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
    12/18 09:41:45.501  SWING_DAMAGE
    12/18 09:41:46.425  SPELL_CAST_START3,"Lava Burst"
    12/18 09:41:48.243  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lava Burst"
    12/18 09:41:51.718  SWING_DAMAGE
This matches the swing timer reseting after the spell cast completes
cast_start + cast_time + swing_time = 41:46.43 + 1.81 + 3.52 = 41:51.76

1x Maelstrom, timed to not clip:
    12/18 09:57:58.464  SWING_DAMAGE
    12/18 09:57:59.168  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
    12/18 09:57:59.625  SPELL_CAST_START,"Lava Burst",0x4
    12/18 09:58:01.465  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lava Burst",0x4,2037,2036,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
    12/18 09:58:02.253  SWING_DAMAGE
This matches the swing timer free running during the cast (difference is within my latency reported by quartz)
first_swing + swing_time = 57:58.46 + 3.52 = 58:01.98 

1x Maelstrom, timed to clip:
    12/18 10:05:52.958  SWING_DAMAGE
    12/18 10:05:53.211  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
    12/18 10:05:55.931  SPELL_CAST_START,"Lava Burst"
    12/18 10:05:57.748  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lava Burst"
    12/18 10:05:59.766  SWING_DAMAGE
This matches the swing timer free running, and the swing getting clipped.
first_swing + 2 * swing_time = 05:52.96 + 2 * 3.52 = 06:00.00
Either PTR is behaving differently or perhaps you had MW proc when you were testing it out. Either that or one of our testing methods is invalid. I guess the next thing for me to do is test this in PTR.

edit:
By the way. This brings up a disturbing possibility for timing spell casts with the swing timer for maximum dps.
12/18 10:47:10.275  SWING_DAMAGE
12/18 10:47:10.275  SWING_DAMAGE
12/18 10:47:10.345  SPELL_CAST_START,"Lava Burst",0x4
12/18 10:47:11.179  SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
12/18 10:47:12.247  SWING_DAMAGE
12/18 10:47:12.249  SWING_DAMAGE
12/18 10:47:12.249  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lava Burst"
12/18 10:47:12.789  SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
12/18 10:47:14.029  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Flurry",0x1,BUFF
12/18 10:47:14.029  SWING_DAMAGE
12/18 10:47:14.029  SWING_DAMAGE
I don't have the latency to pull that off with any consistency, but perhaps some could.

Last edited by Tramana : 12/18/08 at 3:52 PM.
#1053SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
This is interesting. I showed in an earlier post that lightning bolt needs to have at least one stack of Maelstrom Weapon to not reset the swing timer. Because you're reporting different behavior for Lava Bolt on Beta, I tested this out on live

Either Beta is behaving differently or perhaps you had MW proc when you were testing it out. Either that or one of our testing methods is invalid. I guess the next thing for me to do is test this in beta.
Test it on the PTR, please, and see if it matches your live results.

Either way it is interesting that a spell that is unaffected by Maelstrom Weapon (Lava Burst) still doesn't reset the swingtimer. Could have some interesting potential for 2-hand PvP, although after last night's attempt at doing the Arenas I really don't care anymore if it does or doesn't since I don't think I will be spending much time PvPing anymore anyway.
#1054SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Golnar
Nope, I'm selecting it from the drop down list.
--------------------------------------
I did what Tramana said it works.

Thanks
#1055SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bart00
Originally Posted by Golnar View Post
I've tried putting in Elixir of Expertise, Elixir of Mighty Thought, Snapper Extreme, and Flask of Endless Rage. All say it couldn't be found for me.
If you read the original config.txt, not the lvl80 one, you can check what you can use for each entry, for example:

flask_elixir			elixir_of_major_agility
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				spice_hot_talbuk
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }
Same thing for trinkets, totems, etc. For Endless Rage you would write flask_of_endless_rage.
#1056SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kalahad
Originally Posted by Zyla View Post
Actually, it's even worse using the same 100% crit model as before.

I get 6181.5 dps for that weapon's dps and speed. Of course, it will be less than this because it lacks the dps stats as well.

I think the bottom line on that one is that it's bad. Just completely bad. The amount you gain in flametongue does not make up for less from stormstrike and lash.

edit: ran thru a comparison of the weapons using my stats, 100% crit rate and 0% miss/dodge/glancing, to assure full flurry uptime, and eliminate modeling "noise". Again, using the other stats of the stray.

The Stray: 7048
Angry Dread: 7074
Sinister Revenge: 7097
Mythical 171.1 dps 2.6 speed fist: 7102

This type of test seems kind of stupid and inaccurate for other reasons, but I can't really articulate why or anything.
Have you Sim'd Webbed Death at all out of curiosity? It actually sims higher for me then any other weapon due to it's 1.4 speed. I am over the spell hit cap, so Sinister would probably sim slightly higher if I wasn't, but the numbers I came out with with my current gear showed Webbed Death 6 dps higher. Given equal stats/dps, the 1.4 sims for me about 60 dps higher then a 2.6 would.
#1057SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vilnix
I have been messing around with he sim for quite some time now, but I can never seem to get EP values that make any sense. While I understand that do to the nature of the sim I will never get the exact same results, I am still confused with some of the negative results that I have gotten for the various ratings. Here is my config file. I would really appreciate if someone could point out any mistakes that I made in setting up the sim.l

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       20
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.6
mh_crit                         30.57
oh_crit                         30.57
mh_hit                          11.47
oh_hit                          11.47
mh_expertise_rating             205.00
oh_expertise_rating             205.00
ap                              3457
haste                           4.61
armor_penetration               0.00
str                             141
agi                             831
int                             458
spi                             161
spellpower                      1037
spell_crit                      22.63
spell_hit                       14.33
max_mana                        10986
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        meteorite_whetstone
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           -

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  0/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#1058SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Test it on the PTR, please, and see if it matches your live results.

Either way it is interesting that a spell that is unaffected by Maelstrom Weapon (Lava Burst) still doesn't reset the swingtimer. Could have some interesting potential for 2-hand PvP, although after last night's attempt at doing the Arenas I really don't care anymore if it does or doesn't since I don't think I will be spending much time PvPing anymore anyway.
PTR matches what I see live.
3.67 swing time
1.93 cast time
I have 5/5 MW

No Maelstrom weapon proc, cast timed to not clip.
12/18 22:31:35.859  SWING_DAMAGE
12/18 22:31:36.544  SPELL_CAST_START,"Lava Burst"
12/18 22:31:38.676  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lava Burst"
12/18 22:31:42.210  SWING_DAMAGE

The timestamps match a reset of swing timer with no MW stacks
36.54 + 1.93 + 3.67 = 42.10
#1059SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Perty
Originally Posted by Kalahad View Post
Have you Sim'd Webbed Death at all out of curiosity? It actually sims higher for me then any other weapon due to it's 1.4 speed. I am over the spell hit cap, so Sinister would probably sim slightly higher if I wasn't, but the numbers I came out with with my current gear showed Webbed Death 6 dps higher. Given equal stats/dps, the 1.4 sims for me about 60 dps higher then a 2.6 would.

I had some similar thoughts with[Last Laugh] a little while back in this thread, I never bothered to actually sim it since it supposedly came out to lower dps. I'll do it when I get home, though. Just in my head I'd think a 1.6 @ 171.6dps would come out higher than a 2.5 @ 156.6dps -- very likely not higher than the Sinister Revenge due to noticeable stat loss though.
#1060SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Perty View Post
I had some similar thoughts with[Last Laugh] a little while back in this thread, I never bothered to actually sim it since it supposedly came out to lower dps. I'll do it when I get home, though. Just in my head I'd think a 1.6 @ 171.6dps would come out higher than a 2.5 @ 156.6dps -- very likely not higher than the Sinister Revenge due to noticeable stat loss though.
My OH DPS EP is generally in the low 2s, 2.15 currently. It doesn't take much in terms of OH stats to make up for ~30 EP going from 156.6 to 171.6.
#1061SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Tukez - on the directions for the mac compiling of the source, please add that when creating the new project in Xcode, the project type should be Command Line Utility -> C++ Tool
#1062SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
Every time I stop, and restart combat my weapons start out of phase. It seems like enhsim should do the same, or else it will overvalue matched weapon speed configurations.
I thought I would come back to this comment because I've learned how to start fights with my weapons in phase.

With matched main hand and off hand weapon speeds, if I enable my swing a couple seconds before I'm in range of the target they start in phase, If I start the swing when i'm in melee range of the target they start out of phase.

If I start with the weapons out of phase, steping back out of melee range for a couple seconds will line up the weapons back into phase.

Because of this, I've taken to using a macro as I approach the target
/startattack
/cast earth shock
#1063SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
I wanted to bring back up the topic of Angry Dread vs. Sinister Revenge again mostly because of whether the mechanics for Berserking are accurate in the sim or not. If they mechanics are accurate, please ignore this post, but otherwise, Angry Dread should have a higher Berserking uptime on OH, correct?
#1064SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Vesham View Post
I wanted to bring back up the topic of Angry Dread vs. Sinister Revenge again mostly because of whether the mechanics for Berserking are accurate in the sim or not. If they mechanics are accurate, please ignore this post, but otherwise, Angry Dread should have a higher Berserking uptime on OH, correct?
There is another factor besides weapon speed in determining zerker uptime and it would play a role here. Haste. Sinister Revenge has 24 haste rating and Angry Dread has none so that will also need to be factored in to determine which weapon would average higher uptimes of the weapon enchants.
#1065SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
One thing I noted using the GUI today, I was playing around with what effects different meta gems would have and noted that on changing the meta gem I was getting almost identical figures - ie: within 1 dps each run. It then struck me that all the sim was doing was accounting for the "special" on the meta gem (eg: 3% crit damage bonus) and I was expected to change the crit rating myself. This is fair enough but not intuitive.

My issue was that for the entry Chaotic Skyflare Diamond I needed to adjust the crit rating however crit is entered as a percentage but of course all I had to go on was the rating so I had to look up Whitetooth's Combat Ratings at 80, convert the rating to a percentage and then manually adjust the rating percentage. Adjusting for Relentless Earthsiege Diamond was even worse as adding 21 Agi to the GUI in the sim makes ZERO difference to the dps, I thought I was seeing things so I added 100 and then 1000 Agi and got the same results (note I didn't have Blessing of Kings ticked). So I surmised that I had to manually adjust all the things that agi affects before I could re-run the sim, a huge amount of manual effort when the GUI could perhaps cope with that.

I fully understand why this is happening as the GUI is simply creating the text file and running the sim, I can cope with doing this as I know where to get the info, however for the average user this is way beyond what they would ever expect to be able to cope with. Perhaps a warning when changing meta gems that no change in base stat (eg: agility, crit rating etc) is taken into account, or better still a tick box (stats included or not included) and if not ticked then the sim could add the 21 Agi, 21 Crit rating etc. This way your average user could use the sim and not have to manually add a lot of changes at the same time they are experimenting with changing an item in a drop down list.

The same philosophy could be used with trinkets etc that grant fixed bonuses + specials ie: tick box to ask if the user has already included the base figures in the paper doll stats column.

NB. This change would be a huge benefit to the extreme min/maxer too as it saves a massive amount of time simply ticking a box rather than having to manually adjust lots of figures every time they change around a gem/trinket/etc before rerunning the sim. A typical intense user would want to run the sim dozens of times with dozens of different settings making small tweaks here and there. To have to do manual calculations at every stage is a huge extra time sync and makes small changes prone to user error, with forgetting to revert a change or typo having a potentially major impact.

How to intense users currently cope with this? Is there some easy method I'm overlooking?

Last edited by Levva : 12/23/08 at 8:00 AM.
#1066SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Atren
Levva, i disagree about the metagem personally. It is fine as is and totally logical as it is bonus, not values that is chosen.

Speaking of 3.0.8, what proc rate are you going to give DW WF? That is assuming person has WF glyph of course.

Last edited by Atren : 12/23/08 at 9:10 AM.
#1067SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rounced
Ignore this - reread Levva's post and already mentioned my point.

Last edited by Rounced : 12/23/08 at 11:15 AM.
#1068SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
How to intense users currently cope with this? Is there some easy method I'm overlooking?
I don't have an easy method. I'm doing all the error prone work of hand calculating %'s. Perhaps there is a character builder website that would give you the paper doll values for different gear/gem setups?

What would be really nice is a section that allows you to add misc stats that the sim or gui could add in automatically. The misc stats fields would allow you to add stats as they show up on item tooltips.

For example. If I want to try out different main hand weapons, I could take off my main hand, and enter in the paper doll stats I see in the old paper doll stats fields. Then enter the stats of the weapon I want to try in the misc stats fields and run the sim. For each weapon I want to try I just change the misc stats fields, and leave the paper doll alone. This would save a lot of time for min/maxers, and would also work (with a little bit of effort) for the meta gem problem described by Levva.
#1069SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
I don't have an easy method. I'm doing all the error prone work of hand calculating %'s. Perhaps there is a character builder website that would give you the paper doll values for different gear/gem setups?

What would be really nice is a section that allows you to add misc stats that the sim or gui could add in automatically. The misc stats fields would allow you to add stats as they show up on item tooltips.

For example. If I want to try out different main hand weapons, I could take off my main hand, and enter in the paper doll stats I see in the old paper doll stats fields. Then enter the stats of the weapon I want to try in the misc stats fields and run the sim. For each weapon I want to try I just change the misc stats fields, and leave the paper doll alone. This would save a lot of time for min/maxers, and would also work (with a little bit of effort) for the meta gem problem described by Levva.
This was why I wish there was some way to link Rawr with the Sim so that the Rawr could be used to gather the paper doll stats to output to the Sim to determine the EP values that would be fed back into the Rawr to rank the individuals items and show the dps determined from the Sim run. Then you could change items based on those rankings and re-output it back into the Sim for another determination of overall dps or to even run another reranking of items based on the current paper doll stats showed on the Rawr interface.
#1070SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3scalax
Hello all again.

I'm trying to calculate the EP values against lvl 82 mobs (for heroic instances gear templates) and i'm getting the following values:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2218.29
ap                        1.00      0.33      2284.20        65.91
crit rating               1.61      0.53      2234.17        15.88
hit rating                1.20      0.40      2230.19        11.90
expertise rating          2.15      0.71      2241.52        23.23
haste rating              0.82      0.27      2226.39        8.10
armor penetration rating  1.13      0.37      2229.43        11.14
spellpower                0.93      0.31      2264.08        45.79
mh dps                    4.74      1.56      2230.02        11.73
oh dps                    1.92      0.63      2223.04        4.75
strength                  1.00
agility                   1.48
intelligence              3.36
spirit                    0.06      0.02      2221.39        3.10
mana                      0.13      0.04      2229.40        11.11
mp5                       3.12      1.03      2238.87        20.58
The simulator is giving me an EP value of 3.36 for the intellect (or around this value in the various tests i did) and i don't know if this value is exact or not. What i did wrong?
This is my configuration file:
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              SR

miss                            6.00
dodge                           6.00
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      6.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              0/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           0/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          130.2
mh_crit                         27.96
oh_crit                         27.96
mh_hit                          7.99
oh_hit                          7.99
mh_expertise_rating             63
oh_expertise_rating             63
ap                              3134
haste                           3.69
armor_penetration               4.87
str                             131
agi                             748
int                             466
spi                             154
spellpower                      1214
spell_crit                      21.06
spell_hit                       9.99
max_mana                        11106
mp5                             16

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#1071SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Real simple, you are running OOM so mana pool size is the biggest determinant of how much dps you will do.

I know that isn't the case but that is the data you are feeding into the Sim.

You have it doing 6 minute combat cycles with SR set to the lowest priority which means it probably isn't actually being used at all since something else will be using your GCD and also since it can't even use SR in the first place unless you are under 700 mana which is something you set in the priority tab.

Change the combat cycles to 3 minutes since there are few if any heroic battles that last longer then that anyway.

Then change the priority list so that SR is first priority, which is fine since it won't be used unless you drop below 700 mana anyway.

or you can just uncheck the simulate mana option and go from there.
#1072SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3scalax
You are absolutely right.
I changed the values you suggested and now i'm getting the following values

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2351.01
ap                        1.00      0.32      2415.64        64.63
crit rating               1.99      0.64      2370.26        19.25
hit rating                1.36      0.44      2364.15        13.14
expertise rating          2.49      0.80      2377.35        26.34
haste rating              1.05      0.34      2361.14        10.13
armor penetration rating  1.19      0.38      2362.50        11.49
spellpower                1.08      0.35      2403.46        52.45
mh dps                    5.49      1.77      2364.31        13.30
oh dps                    2.98      0.96      2358.24        7.23
strength                  1.00
agility                   1.55
intelligence              1.70
spirit                    0.01      0.00      2351.62        0.61
mana                      0.02      0.01      2352.96        1.95
mp5                       0.65      0.21      2355.21        4.20
Config file
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS

miss                            6.00
dodge                           6.00
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      6.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              0/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           0/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          130.2
mh_crit                         27.96
oh_crit                         27.96
mh_hit                          7.99
oh_hit                          7.99
mh_expertise_rating             63
oh_expertise_rating             63
ap                              3134
haste                           3.69
armor_penetration               4.87
str                             131
agi                             748
int                             466
spi                             154
spellpower                      1214
spell_crit                      21.06
spell_hit                       9.99
max_mana                        11106
mp5                             16

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#1073SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Radditz
simulation_time 1000
this is definitly way too low. i would make a minimum 20.000h for ep value generation, or im wrong?
#1074SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
This was why I wish there was some way to link Rawr with the Sim so that the Rawr could be used to gather the paper doll stats to output to the Sim to determine the EP values that would be fed back into the Rawr to rank the individuals items and show the dps determined from the Sim run. Then you could change items based on those rankings and re-output it back into the Sim for another determination of overall dps or to even run another reranking of items based on the current paper doll stats showed on the Rawr interface.
Currently Rawr gives a reasonable enough data export when you save your character and it saves it in XML format. I am away for Xmas at parents house for four days with only a dial up internet connection so I'll be climbing the walls without anything useful to do. You have just however saved my sanity by suggesting a useful project.

I shall endeavour to write a Java (ie: platform independent) app that will take the output of a Rawr xml file and re-write it as the same format that ShockAndAwe exports which of course EnhSim already supports. This would then mean you run the app point it at your XML file and it would give you the stuff to paste into your EnhSim config file.

In four days, assuming I'm not being offered more food every 30 mins by my mother keen not to see me starve, I'd hope to have at least a version able to be tested.


BTW. Is the Rawr 2.1.4 Enhance module broken at present or even updated for 3.0.3 as I can find no way to change the Boss level from the fixed value of 70.

Edit: Hmm bugger. The Rawr save only saves item ids not any actual stats. It does however save talents. Conversely the "Copy to Clipboard" option does seem to give some useful values - very very messy. This would mean any program would need to read two different files one as a cut n paste one as a saved file. Not at all intuitive, it would be so much nicer if the people at Rawr could be persuaded to include the paper doll stats in the XML save file.

I'll have a bash at it as I need something to do but I'm not that hopeful now.

I've posted a Issue on the Rawr Issue Tracker - perhaps if people here who like the idea of enabling data swapping between EnhSim & Rawr could vote on the issue on the tracker it would bump it up the queue and perhaps get implemented soon. The issue is logged at Rawr - View Issue

Last edited by Levva : 12/24/08 at 9:46 AM.
#1075SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
I was playing around with the ele part of the sim and I discovered mana problems with my shit gear and looking at the output it displayed 0 mana gained from JoW. I found that strange because JoW gives mana on spells so this seems to be a flaw in the mana calculations, WTB fix.
#1076SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
e30Birdy
I discovered a prob and wondered if i was wrong or the sim just not have it set right:

I have been running the sim a lot lately to get my dps to the max and man did it do wonders and want to thank the creator!

To my prob:

I noticed that the enhsim doesnt recognize the hitcap for Draenei shamans at 341, i tried to see when it will throw the EP hit value is over the cap in the info box and it was much higher then the 341, i was wondering if this was a bug or something that will be fixed so that i can get correct EP values cause i am sitting at 375 hit (14.3%) and enhsim still giving me a 4.02 EP value which i would think it totally off cause i am 34 over the cap already! My Current 16/55/0 build

Edit: on my main rig it is working like it should be and states EP Hit goes past cap with spells... but its not showing that on my laptop.. wierd

Last edited by e30Birdy : 12/25/08 at 8:51 AM.
#1077SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
Equipping bandit's insignia seams to cause some wierd results:
arcane_resistance not found from config.
shadow_resistance not found from config.
................................................................................

MH:
miss                1161344        4.70%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            6155059        24.92%
hit                 4335824        17.56%
crit                13045649       52.82%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.62%
procs/swings        14.02%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 3768974        47.16%
crit                4222686        52.84%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1801963        47.38%
crit                2001642        52.62%

OH:
miss                1890996        4.71%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            10029373       24.97%
hit                 7044691        17.54%
crit                21198160       52.78%

OH Windfury:
procs/hits          10.50%
procs/swings        10.10%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 4677281        47.18%
crit                5236107        52.82%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1796119        47.22%
crit                2007486        52.78%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3018556        57.19%
crit                2259848        42.81%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2410267        46.98%
crit                2720631        53.02%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3172244        57.16%
crit                2377187        42.84%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 6169497        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 50.88

flurry uptime                  92.13%
unleashed rage uptime          100.00%
elemental devastation uptime   79.81%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              36.24%
oh enchant uptime              36.09%
trinket1 uptime                0.00%
trinket2 uptime                0.00%
totem uptime                   48.92%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.06      0.03%
mp5                 34.23     18.79%
replenishment       35.22     19.33%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 29.47     16.17%
shamanistic rage    83.23     45.68%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2052.62   -0.13%    108.10
windfury            1162.61   -0.07%    14.92
stormstrike         298.32    -0.01%    6.34      34.93     18.54%
lava lash           107.65    0%        8.55      23.56     12.50%
searing totem       314.77    -0.01%    1.10      5.32      2.82%
earth shock         553.93    -0.03%    8.80      56.85     30.17%
lightning bolt      787.68    -0.04%    9.25      67.76     35.97%
lightning shield    285.79    -0.01%    1.40      0.00      0.00%
misc                -1508103.36100.37%   1.26

DPS                 -1502540.00
MPS                 188.42
MP2min              22609.98
MRPS                244.02
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 46.07s
simulation speed: 781487x
config:
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         75
max_lag                         125
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   12
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              2.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    6
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       1
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    2
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       800
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    200

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              ST
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           11000
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               
shadow_resistance               

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            dalaran_clam_chowder
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        1.60
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          171.6
mh_crit                         34.16
oh_crit                         34.16
mh_hit                          17.28
oh_hit                          17.28
mh_expertise_rating             216
oh_expertise_rating             216
ap                              3526
haste                           2.84
armor_penetration               2.4
str                             178
agi                             823
int                             400
spi                             161
spellpower                      1058
spell_crit                      23.82
spell_hit                       14.1
max_mana                        12000
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       axe
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        bandits_insignia

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    earth_shock

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                2/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#1078SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
Edit: on my main rig it is working like it should be and states EP Hit goes past cap with spells... but its not showing that on my laptop.. wierd
Maybe you don't have the same raid buffs selected on your laptop?
#1079SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tinit5190
This may have been in one of the files. But does your program calculate the DPS including Searing Totem?
#1080SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
e30Birdy
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Maybe you don't have the same raid buffs selected on your laptop?
I zipped up the sim on my laptop and sent it over here using the same files as i was there.

Last edited by e30Birdy : 12/26/08 at 1:34 PM.
#1081SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
I zipped up the sim on my laptop and sent it over here using the same files as i was there!
Just check your config and make sure that you have all the exact same buffs selected on both, also make sure that the raid boss stats listed are the same on both computers.

(btw the exclamation point makes you look like a trolling doosh)
#1082SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
yeah totally the same setting, i checked them side by side

i wanted to apologize for putting a exlamation mark at the end of my sentance but i am german and I'm happy that my grammer and spelling is correct that people can understand my post.


To get back to topic: can this be right? Here is the sim i ran with my gear using a Webbed Death in my OH, which until now has gotten me the highest DPS in Sim till i ran it with a The Stray in my OH.


................................................................................

MH:
miss                5062920        10.43%
dodge               847885         1.75%
glancing            12127771       24.99%
hit                 8845763        18.23%
crit                21637599       44.59%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.21%
procs/swings        13.58%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               270159         1.76%
hit                 8346136        54.49%
crit                6701501        43.75%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               137522         1.75%
hit                 4303113        54.71%
crit                3424678        43.54%

OH:
miss                9492137        10.44%
dodge               1588850        1.75%
glancing            22716023       24.99%
hit                 16562737       18.22%
crit                40544179       44.60%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 57649369       60.48%
crit                37664316       39.52%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               135394         1.75%
hit                 4227587        54.71%
crit                3364810        43.54%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 5269792        60.46%
crit                3446972        39.54%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               141354         1.76%
hit                 4372688        54.39%
crit                3525661        43.85%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 5213722        60.45%
crit                3411131        39.55%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 10125330       100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 42.13

flurry uptime                  83.57%
unleashed rage uptime          100.00%
elemental devastation uptime   68.73%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              34.65%
oh enchant uptime              25.57%
trinket1 uptime                20.87%
trinket2 uptime                18.50%
totem uptime                   42.01%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 16.81     14.84%
replenishment       32.70     28.88%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 27.37     24.17%
shamanistic rage    36.34     32.10%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1421.96   31.58%    116.19
windfury            579.98    12.88%    6.38
flametongue         587.15    13.04%    79.43
stormstrike         218.97    4.86%     6.55      36.11     27.85%
lava lash           67.62     1.5%      6.70      13.70     10.57%
searing totem       318.05    7.06%     1.15      5.54      4.27%
earth shock         456.07    10.13%    7.26      30.67     23.65%
lightning bolt      614.90    13.65%    7.19      43.65     33.66%
lightning shield    238.68    5.3%      0.99      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4503.38
MPS                 129.67
MP2min              15560.82
MRPS                127.92
Out of mana time    0.01%

elapsed simulation time: 20000.00h
elapsed real time: 32.39s
simulation speed: 2223114x
................................................................................

MH:
miss                5140451        10.25%
dodge               876173         1.75%
glancing            12529625       24.99%
hit                 9288766        18.53%
crit                22293588       44.47%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.15%
procs/swings        13.54%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               277399         1.77%
hit                 8578481        54.60%
crit                6855282        43.63%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               137859         1.75%
hit                 4317411        54.82%
crit                3419762        43.43%

OH:
miss                5134071        10.24%
dodge               876948         1.75%
glancing            12510059       24.96%
hit                 9298022        18.55%
crit                22309503       44.50%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 36453443       61.16%
crit                23150464       38.84%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               135220         1.75%
hit                 4238861        54.79%
crit                3363092        43.47%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 5308928        61.19%
crit                3367673        38.81%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               140548         1.75%
hit                 4377491        54.55%
crit                3506879        43.70%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 5636944        61.17%
crit                3578149        38.83%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 8307090        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 45.81

flurry uptime                  92.68%
unleashed rage uptime          99.98%
elemental devastation uptime   69.13%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              34.92%
oh enchant uptime              30.82%
trinket1 uptime                20.52%
trinket2 uptime                17.66%
totem uptime                   41.88%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 16.76     14.85%
replenishment       32.62     28.90%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 26.19     23.21%
shamanistic rage    37.29     33.04%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1453.21   32.25%    83.55
windfury            593.71    13.18%    6.55
flametongue         460.20    10.21%    49.67
stormstrike         256.41    5.69%     6.56      36.16     27.22%
lava lash           122.25    2.71%     6.69      13.67     10.29%
searing totem       317.02    7.04%     1.15      5.54      4.17%
earth shock         451.94    10.03%    7.23      30.69     23.11%
lightning bolt      654.53    14.53%    7.68      46.76     35.20%
lightning shield    196.12    4.35%     0.82      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4505.39
MPS                 132.82
MP2min              15938.83
MRPS                131.99
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 20000.00h
elapsed real time: 27.68s
simulation speed: 2601532x
Top one is Webbed Death (Speed 1.4) and bottom The Stray (Speed 2.6). Now to my question is The Stray getting more DPS since it is synced with my MH being Kel'thuzad's Reach also being a 2.6?

I double checked my stats and they are right and i ran the sim set to 20000h. Like i said above i have ran many weapons and the closest to Webbed Death has been Sinister's Revenge at 4501.
#1083SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
Top one is Webbed Death (Speed 1.4) and bottom The Stray (Speed 2.6). Now to my question is The Stray getting more DPS since it is synced with my MH being Kel'thuzad's Reach also being a 2.6?

I double checked my stats and they are right and i ran the sim set to 20000h. Like i said above i have ran many weapons and the closest to Webbed Death has been Sinister's Revenge at 4501.
You're talking about 4501 vs 4503 vs 4505. That's a difference of less than 0.1% between all 3 weapons, and is likely well within the RNG range of the sim. Those 3 setups are functionally identical for in-game dps. Use whatever weapon you can get ahold of or prefer.
#1084SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
Yeah i know they were really close compared to others i tested for sure, but didnt think that a 143.5, 2.6 OH would be as high as it is compared to 2 other items with quite a bit more dps (WD 156.4 and SR being 171.1)

I was just wondering how this happens? If it has something to do with the weapons being synced or something? The Angry Dead is like 30-40 less atleast, and it goes downhill from there with The Hand of Nerub, and the Split Greathammer.

Just looking to learn a lil more about my class as i run these sims like a mad man.
#1085SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
Yeah i know they were really close compared to others i tested for sure, but didnt think that a 143.5, 2.6 OH would be as high as it is compared to 2 other items with quite a bit more dps (WD 156.4 and SR being 171.1)

I was just wondering how this happens? If it has something to do with the weapons being synced or something? The Angry Dead is like 30-40 less atleast, and it goes downhill from there with The Hand of Nerub, and the Split Greathammer.

Just looking to learn a lil more about my class as i run these sims like a mad man.
There is value in slower weapons, which is why a lower dps slow weapon can be similar to a higher dps fast weapon. Additionally, there has been some discussion lately that the sim is overvaluing matched weapon speeds with it's flurry simulations. I believe the discussion has been in this thread, though it might have been in the catch-all sticky thread.
#1086SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
e30Birdy
Okay see thats the answer i a was looking for because it gets to be a pain to find out you get a weapon and drop beserker on it and sim was just giving wrong values, i will see if i can find that thread and read that.

Thanks a lot Skiance

Last edited by e30Birdy : 12/26/08 at 4:21 PM.
#1087SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paradox
I have a suggestion for the sim;

Would a "gem slot suggestion" option not be possible? have the config.txt ask for how many gem slots you have and what gems are currently in them, and then suggest any better gems for those slots, taking into account slot bonuses maybe?

thanks and keep up the good work love the sim
#1088SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Dragon-CR
I know engineering has long been dismissed as a min/max profession, so I'm not surprised nobody has mentioned the PTR changes to engineering but the Hyperspeed Accelerators are (potentially) getting a huge buff in 3.0.8 and at least a minor one. The patch notes themselves say increasing the duration from 8 seconds to 10 seconds, but in game the cooldown has also been reduced to one minute instead of two. Since it's not in the notes and the tooltip still says 2 mins it may very well be a mistake, but I have a feeling it's not. I even brought some maths to back that up.

10 sec duration w/ 2 min CD gives us 340 * 10 / 120 = 28.33 effective HR (~28 item points worth), which isn't better than hit or exp if not capped and may or may not be better than 44 AP if you are.

Take the LW wrist enchants for example, 114AP is 57 item points worth, obviously much better than the other wrist options.

If the current PTR changes stick though and the CD is reduced to one minute you're looking at 340 * 10 / 60 = 56.66 HR (~57 item points worth) which puts it on par with the LWing enchant item point wise and unless your hit EP is way overblown from being way below the cap, would become the best wrist enchant by far. Even if hit was rated at 4EP and haste at 1.5EP, the accelerators would still be marginally better. Since most other professions personal enchants are in the ~50-60 item point range, or 20-25 points over the comparable enchant, this puts engineering on equal ground with the other professions as far as its apparent intended value.

Add to that the fact that it's burst haste and the EP can be even higher. Still off GCD and does not trigger the mini trinket CD that prevents dual trinket usage, so you can trinket at the same time.

Would it be possible to get this added to the sim to evaluate how good (or bad) it possibly is.

Another (hopefully simple) sim request, could you have the simulator set the processing threads to below normal or idle priority so it doesn't bog down the PC any more than it has to.

Last edited by Dragon-CR : 12/28/08 at 2:40 AM.
#1089SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Zyla
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
Okay see thats the answer i a was looking for because it gets to be a pain to find out you get a weapon and drop beserker on it and sim was just giving wrong values, i will see if i can find that thread and read that.

Thanks a lot Skiance
Its this thread, posts by me, about 50 posts back or so? The sim is broken sightly because it wrongly gives you 4 flurry charges with matched speeds. This does not really happen.
#1090SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Zyla View Post
Its this thread, posts by me, about 50 posts back or so? The sim is broken sightly because it wrongly gives you 4 flurry charges with matched speeds. This does not really happen.
I've found that matched weapon speeds gives higher flurry uptime in game which matches what the sim does. You have to ensure that the weapons are synced however to see this higher uptime.
#1091SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
I've found that matched weapon speeds gives higher flurry uptime in game which matches what the sim does. You have to ensure that the weapons are synced however to see this higher uptime.
So best would be starting with a macro like this one below? i heard thats how people sync weapons, havent had any same speed weapons in forever.

/cast Earth Shock
/startattack
#1092SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
So best would be starting with a macro like this one below? i heard thats how people sync weapons, havent had any same speed weapons in forever.

/cast Earth Shock
/startattack
That'll work. You just have to start your attack a couple seconds before you're in range of the target.
#1093SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
I seem to recall having read in the old old enha shaman thread that opening with stormstrike should do the trick as well? Because you hit with both weapons and autoattack resumes from there.
#1094SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jonnaei
Originally Posted by Bellante View Post
I seem to recall having read in the old old enha shaman thread that opening with stormstrike should do the trick as well? Because you hit with both weapons and autoattack resumes from there.
You are assuming that stormstrike is not on cooldown. I use:

/cast stormstrike
/startattack

It makes it easy to auto-target on trash and you don't have to waste white hits and procs while you wait for SS to come off of cooldown.
#1095SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Ye, use a /startattack macro for SS and LL both, so I can mash anything to start attacking. Point was just that you don't need to stand back and have autoattack going before approaching, say, Patchwerk. You just open with SS. Anyway, just wanted to have it confirmed that SS achieved the same result, as it is the approach I've been using.
#1096SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3yazakib
I had a quick question. When I run Enhism it adds FS and LVB into the rotation. I'm curious how to take that out. This is what my rotation specifications are

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 0
bloodlust_casters 2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left 700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left 3000

rotation_priority_count 6
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 SS
rotation_priority3 ES
rotation_priority4 LL
rotation_priority5 LS
rotation_priority6 SR

yet it still includes LVB and FS into my rotation, curious as how to get that to edit out.
#1097SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
Now i might understand wrong, but the rotation part determines what skills are used. I would recommend rising SR to first priority btw.
#1098SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3BW~Merlin
Error when trying to import data

I am trying to run enhsim from values exported by Shockandawe but when I load the file (I use wordpad to save the export data as a txt file and wordpad tells me that formatting will be lost as I am saving it as a txt file) I get this error message.

See the end of this message for details on invoking 
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Value of '0' is not valid for 'Value'. 'Value' should be between 'Minimum' and 'Maximum'.
Parameter name: Value
   at System.Windows.Forms.NumericUpDown.set_Value(Decimal value)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.readConfigFile(SByte* filename)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.openFileDialog1_FileOk(Object sender, CancelEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.FileDialog.OnFileOk(CancelEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.FileDialog.HandleVistaFileOk(IFileDialog dialog)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
enhsimgui
    Assembly Version: 1.0.3263.26181
    Win32 Version: 
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Miller/Desktop/EnhSim1.5.0/enhsimgui.exe
----------------------------------------
msvcm90
    Assembly Version: 9.0.21022.8
    Win32 Version: 9.00.21022.8
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/WinSxS/x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_none_bcb86ed6ac711f91/msvcm90.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

This is the data that I am trying to import


###############################
## ShockAndAwe EnhSim Export ##
###############################
race                 tauren
mh_speed             2.60
oh_speed             2.80
mh_dps               143.5
oh_dps               111.8
mh_crit              21.86
oh_crit              21.86
mh_hit               4.30
oh_hit               4.30
mh_expertise_rating  0.00
oh_expertise_rating  0.00
ap                   2706
haste                4.24
armor_penetration    1.43
str                  125
agi                  595
int                  396
spi                  145
spellpower           1085
spell_crit           16.37
spell_hit            5.38
max_mana             10056
mp5                  100
mh_imbue             windfury
oh_imbue             flametongue

mh_enchant           -
mh_weapon            -
oh_enchant           -
oh_weapon            -

trinket1             sphere_of_red_dragons_blood
trinket2             fezziks_pocketwatch

totem                stonebreakers_totem
set_bonus            - ## not currently available in the addon export
metagem              -

glyph_major1         windfury_weapon
glyph_major2         lava_lash
glyph_major3         stormstrike
glyph_major4         - ## slot empty

glyph_minor1         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor2         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor3         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim


#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge       5/5
improved_shields          0/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         1/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            5/5
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      0/2
static_shock              0/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                2/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             0/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             5/5
elemental_focus           1/1
elemental_fury            3/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/5
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/5
lava_flows                0/3
storm_earth_and_fire      0/5

If I continue and run the EP values it tells me that some test were skipped and does not give me EP values for anything and the output file reports the follow.


ep_mp5 not found from config.
ep_spirit not found from config.
ep_mana not found from config.
ep_dps not found from config.
ep_spellpower not found from config.
ep_armor_penetration_rating not found from config.
ep_haste_rating not found from config.
ep_expertise not found from config.
ep_hit_rating not found from config.
ep_crit_rating not found from config.
ep_ap not found from config.
threads not found from config.
max_lag not found from config.
min_lag not found from config.
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left not found from config.
combat_length not found from config.
wait_ss_with_wf_cd not found from config.
simulation_time not found from config.
report_count not found from config.
Mh hit + EP range goes past cap by 528249% (1.73213e+007 hit rating).
Oh hit + EP range goes past cap by 528249% (1.73213e+007 hit rating).
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 660322% (1.73216e+007 hit rating).
Mh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 1.73218e+007 expertise (1.41996e+008 expertise rating).
Oh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 1.73218e+007 expertise (1.41996e+008 expertise rating).

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      0
ap                        0         0         0              0
crit rating               0         0         0              0
hit rating                0         0         0              0
expertise rating          0         0         0              0
haste rating              0         0         0              0
armor penetration rating  0         0         0              0
spellpower                0         0         0              0
mh dps                    0         0         0              0
oh dps                    0         0         0              0
strength                  0         
agility                   0         
intelligence*             0         
spirit                    0         0         0              0
mana                      0         0         0              0
mp5                       0         0         0              0

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=0, CritRating=0, HitRating=0, HasteRating=0, ExpertiseRating=0, ArmorPenetration=0, SpellDamage=0, MainHandDps=0, OffHandDps=0, Strength=0, Agility=0, Intellect=0, Spirit=0, Mana=0, Mp5=0 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=0&mh=0&dps=0&mp5=0&mcr=0&odps=0&spd=0&Agi=0&mhit=0&Int=0&Spi=0&map=0&arp=0&Exp=0

elapsed simulation time: 0h
elapsed real time: 2127s
simulation speed: 0x
#1099SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
The export part is only your character setup, upper part is still same as in normal config file. I am guessing your config file only has SAA export part?
#1100SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
You're missing 90% of the config file, the SAA export stuff isn't meant to replace the entire file, its just the last bit at the bottom of it.
#1101SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Bellante View Post
Ye, use a /startattack macro for SS and LL both, so I can mash anything to start attacking. Point was just that you don't need to stand back and have autoattack going before approaching, say, Patchwerk. You just open with SS. Anyway, just wanted to have it confirmed that SS achieved the same result, as it is the approach I've been using.
It's simple enough to see if you're getting in phase weapons in a wws parse or combatlog for a fight like patchwerk

Or you can test on a target dummy. Get into range of the target dummy and start with a SS. For me this is what I got when I tried:
1/1 14:09:23.526  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,17364,"Stormstrike",0x9
1/1 14:09:23.535  SWING_DAMAGE,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,1711,1710,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:23.570  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Stormstrike",0x1,1851,1850,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:23.570  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Stormstrike",0x1,990,989,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:24.794  SWING_DAMAGE,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,1053,1052,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:25.446  SWING_DAMAGE,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,1038,1037,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:26.653  SWING_DAMAGE,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,1036,1035,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
So leading with stormstrike does not automatically put your weapons in phase.
#1102SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kalahad
While keeping weapons in phase, dual Webbed Death with 2x Flametongue is simming far higher for me then any other combo (150-200 dps higher then any Calamity+WD/SR/Stray Combo). Anyone else getting this? I'm sure things will change once the WF glyph is changed, however. If every rogue in the guild didn't want to DW Webbed Death's as well I'd seriously consider trying it out.
#1103SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
I just recently updated from 1.4.3, which seemed to be giving me pretty reasonable numbers (numbers which seemed in the ballpark for what I would just guess) to 1.5.0 which seems to be giving me unreasonable numbers. I am not sure whether I am just working from bad assumptions and these numbers are right, or if I am doing something wrong. I will also point out that I am not entirely sure what the EP range settings should be when trying to determine EP values, so that may be my issue, I left them at default except expertise which I set to 1.

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    1
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              ST
rotation_priority7              SR

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            dalaran_clam_chowder
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         28.83
oh_crit                         28.83
mh_hit                          13.78
oh_hit                          13.78
mh_expertise_rating             26
oh_expertise_rating             26
ap                              3649
haste                           5.34
armor_penetration               2.53
str                             129
agi                             822
int                             437
spi                             153
spellpower                      1129
spell_crit                      20.87
spell_hit                       17.23
max_mana                        10671
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 5.37364% (140.961 hit rating).

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana calculated.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit calculated.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      4956.67
ap                        1.00      0.55      5066.11        109.45
crit rating               2.13      1.17      4991.69        35.02
hit rating                1.80      0.99      4986.27        29.61
expertise rating          2.87      1.57      4969.53        12.87
haste rating              0.17      0.09      4959.48        2.81
armor penetration rating  1.33      0.73      4978.47        21.81
spellpower                1.13      0.62      5049.07        92.40
mh dps                    6.19      3.39      4982.07        25.40
oh dps                    2.26      1.24      4965.93        9.27
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.83      
intelligence              1.59      
spirit                    0.02      0.01      4958.52        1.85
mana                      0.01      0.00      4957.65        0.98
mp5                       0.25      0.14      4959.39        2.73

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=2.13, HitRating=1.80, HasteRating=0.17, ExpertiseRating=2.87, ArmorPenetration=1.33, SpellDamage=1.13, MainHandDps=6.19, OffHandDps=2.26, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.83, Intellect=1.59, Spirit=0.02, Mana=0.01, Mp5=0.25 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=0.17&dps=6.19&mp5=0.25&mcr=2.13&odps=2.26&spd=1.13&Agi=1.83&mhit=1.80&Int=1.59&Spi=0.02&map=1.00&arp=1.33&Exp=2.87

elapsed simulation time: 14000.00h
elapsed real time: 36.86s
simulation speed: 1367372x
The numbers which seem unreasonable to me are expertise and haste. I would think just the increase in white damage would make haste more valuable than .17, and shouldn't expertise be negligible after cap? I also know that my hit is stupid right now, I have to re-gem since I picked up Grim Toll.

A simple "those numbers are fine you are an idiot" will suffice if that is the case, thanks.
#1104SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Well number one, you aren't expertise capped.
mh_expertise_rating 26
oh_expertise_rating 26
26 rating is like 3 expertise.

Also, don't mess with the EP stuff at the top of the config file unless you know what you're doing. Since you said you don't, I suggest you change it back to what it was.
#1105SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Well number one, you aren't expertise capped.


26 rating is like 3 expertise.

Also, don't mess with the EP stuff at the top of the config file unless you know what you're doing. Since you said you don't, I suggest you change it back to what it was.
Ah yes, it used to ask for rating but want actual expertise, I see it actually wants rating now. Here is the corrected output, still with abnormal results. I only changed the expertise EP range because another post suggested that if you were capped you didn't want a high number there.

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 5.37364% (140.961 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5233.06
ap                        1.00      0.56      5345.35        112.30
crit rating               1.90      1.06      5265.00        31.94
hit rating                1.67      0.94      5261.23        28.18
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5233.06
haste rating              -0.20     -0.11     5229.65        -3.41
armor penetration rating  1.47      0.82      5257.78        24.72
spellpower                1.13      0.63      5328.05        94.99
mh dps                    5.35      3.00      5255.59        22.54
oh dps                    2.62      1.47      5244.10        11.05
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.81      
intelligence              1.53      
spirit                    0.01      0.01      5234.24        1.19
mana                      0.01      0.00      5234.10        1.04
mp5                       0.43      0.24      5237.93        4.87

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.90, HitRating=1.67, HasteRating=-0.20, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.47, SpellDamage=1.13, MainHandDps=5.35, OffHandDps=2.62, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.81, Intellect=1.53, Spirit=0.01, Mana=0.01, Mp5=0.43 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=-0.20&dps=5.35&mp5=0.43&mcr=1.90&odps=2.62&spd=1.13&Agi=1.81&mhit=1.67&Int=1.53&Spi=0.01&map=1.00&arp=1.47&Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 13000.00h
elapsed real time: 36.02s
simulation speed: 1299458x
#1106SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
bobxii
Couple things:

Post a dps run (i.e. non-ep value run); I think you'll see you're running OOM (more than 0.05% or so) judging from the non-negligible mp5 value, probably because of this:
rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              ST
rotation_priority7              SR
Which should have SR on top instead of the bottom.

Also, you're only running 1000 hours of combat time (this should get things in the ballpark, however, so it doesn't explain the haste issue). The three likely explanations are: 1) you're in the <1.5s MH swing range which hurts WF damage, and you don't have enough haste EP difference to make up for it with white damage/MW procs, or 2) you're in the realm of some other interfering cooldowns involving MW with something else, and 3) the combat time simply isn't long enough, giving you deviations in dps larger than the difference from the additional haste.



Also, to tukez: does the sim account for the 4.8% (Retesting hit table assumptions) physical crit depression on bosses? (I'm not sure what it is on spells) I have noticed the seemingly unattainable dps numbers from this sim (with the input stats).

Last edited by bobxii : 01/02/09 at 7:20 PM. Reason: added link
#1107SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
................................................................................

MH:
miss                197435         8.15%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            604033         24.94%
hit                 437876         18.08%
crit                1182126        48.82%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.21%
procs/swings        14.15%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 413046         51.49%
crit                389162         48.51%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 212350         51.47%
crit                200223         48.53%

OH:
miss                206512         8.19%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            626060         24.84%
hit                 456636         18.12%
crit                1230904        48.84%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1867943        57.71%
crit                1368715        42.29%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 212512         51.51%
crit                200061         48.49%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 307761         57.82%
crit                224499         42.18%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 260550         51.04%
crit                249935         48.96%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 300525         57.80%
crit                219450         42.20%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 445058         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 47.27

flurry uptime                  89.89%
unleashed rage uptime          99.99%
elemental devastation uptime   78.24%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              36.19%
oh enchant uptime              32.57%
trinket1 uptime                20.64%
trinket2 uptime                18.06%
totem uptime                   49.34%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 34.49     24.94%
replenishment       32.47     23.47%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 26.09     18.86%
shamanistic rage    45.27     32.73%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1631.18   31.47%    82.36
windfury            681.48    13.15%    6.69
flametongue         529.02    10.21%    53.94
stormstrike         305.11    5.89%     6.88      37.89     25.45%
lava lash           166.51    3.21%     8.51      17.09     11.48%
searing totem       332.03    6.41%     1.02      4.92      3.31%
earth shock         577.55    11.14%    8.87      36.90     24.79%
lightning bolt      781.14    15.07%    8.67      52.07     34.98%
lightning shield    179.54    3.46%     0.82      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 5183.54
MPS                 148.87
MP2min              17863.83
MRPS                172.00
Out of mana time    0.05%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 2.72s
simulation speed: 1324503x
There is the output from a DPS run, my weapons are 2.6 and 2.5 so I can't imagine I ever get below 1.5. I moved the SR up to top priority per your suggestion and I am still seeing the low number. I normally run 5000+ hours for more precise EP numbers, but always run a short one first to make sure things look relatively normal before doing a long run.
#1108SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
Ah yes, it used to ask for rating but want actual expertise, I see it actually wants rating now. Here is the corrected output, still with abnormal results. I only changed the expertise EP range because another post suggested that if you were capped you didn't want a high number there.
Actually those values are correct. The issue is that you're running into the windfury chasm where your weapon is just under 1.5 seconds and it is decreasing the number of Windfury procs you see per unit time from the mainhand.

Toots can explain it better then me but basically either get more haste or stay right where you currently are because at your current level haste really has no value as a stat. Get another percent or two and it will start to have a value again as you will be under that "cap" for the most part and you will be back to your normal Windfury PPM rate.
#1109SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Rounced we may need to add those graphics that Toots made for the windfury-haste issue to the wiki. I'm not sure where that post went though...


Originally Posted by bobxii View Post
Which should have SR on top instead of the bottom.
I don't see why SR would need the highest priority. Placing it last on priority, with a "use SR with less than X mana" option set would mean that the sim would use abilities till everything was on CD and then pop SR once you were below the mana line and had every ability on CD and LS was still active. That's exactly how I do it in-game.

Besides, if you aren't running into any sort of mana issues in your raid (I haven't even been using SR during bosses anymore) then you may as well just turn mana simulation off just to save yourself the hassle of potential wonky output.
#1110SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Rounced we may need to add those graphics that Toots made for the windfury-haste issue to the wiki. I'm not sure where that post went though...
I don't think it was actually in our forums, I think it was from a post he linked from wowhead where someone was being a dumbass and he felt the need to educate.

e: nm http://elitistjerks.com/990992-post8.html it's in the TTT thread.

Although what is really missing is the chart that he listed that showed the specific amounts of haste that puts you into that zone. Maybe he would be willing to rewrite that for inclusion in the TTT since that would be the most useful and easiest to follow thing we could put there. Would be ideal if it showed Flurry + Windfury Totem and then showed the haste amount estimated with 1 goose enchant and with 2 goose enchants.

I'll try to find that other post though since that laid it all out simply enough that even I was able to follow it.

Last edited by Rouncer : 01/02/09 at 10:40 PM.
#1111SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Thanks for linking that post, it is illuminating. It would be a good addition to TTT, I had seen that graph re: WF procs vs Weapon speed but the post makes sense of it.
#1112SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
bobxii
Ok, with essentially zero OOM time, the mp5 value thing was just a fluke.

You might actually try running it with negative haste EP values (ie. decreasing haste) to see if you're already in the "windfury chasm" (depends on if the main hand is running under or over 1.50s); you may do more dps with less haste (YAY). (However I added haste in every possible way and found that only with double goose up could you run under the 1.5s mark for the main hand outside of bloodlust.)


I found something interesting; working out the PPM of the MH and OH yields some wierd results:
FT	
53.94	PPM	
8.51	lava lash	
6.88	stormstrike	
38.55	OH ppm	43.81  MH ppm
2.5 sec		2.6 sec
Obviously this isn't right, since the MH is SLOWER than the OH! Even the vagaries of flurry mechanics (which with a ~90% uptime are much less significant) wouldn't account for this much deviation, and the miss %'s for each hand are nearly identical.

Last edited by bobxii : 01/03/09 at 12:30 AM.
#1113SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by bobxii View Post

Obviously this isn't right, since the MH is SLOWER than the OH! Even the vagaries of flurry mechanics (which with a ~90% uptime are much less significant) wouldn't account for this much deviation, and the miss %'s for each hand are nearly identical.
Windfury
#1114SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Sprinter
Perfect enhancer gear?

Hi folks,
i put up the best gear combination i can think of (3.0.3) together and made some enhsim calculations.
As starting a new topic is restricted i thought this is the best forum to post it to as all calculations are based on enhsim.

This is the gear overview:
chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x

The result using enhsim 1.5.0 is: 5413 DPS

Notes:
- Darkmoon Card Crusade is only slighly better then FotFF
- 40Hit Food
- No Set bonus has been chosen in enhsim. (is valorous earthshatter bonus available in enhsim?)

Used Enhsim Config can be downloaded here

Last edited by Sprinter : 01/05/09 at 3:38 AM.
#1115SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I was wondering if Tukez could add a ES_SS option to the priority list in the sim I'm intending to add this to the next version of ShockAndAwe. The idea being use ES if SS still on target. This allows a priority of : MW5_LB, ES_SS, SS, ES, LL

ie: give elevated ES priority if SS still on target but put it after SS if no SS debuff on target. A small tweak but I think a useful one. My plan is to try this out in ShockAndAwe so that it advises using ES before SS if there's still a SS debuff.

Thoughts?
#1116SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sprinter View Post
Hi folks,
i put up the best gear combination i can think of (3.0.3) together and made some enhsim calculations.
As starting a new topic is restricted i thought this is the best forum to post it to as all calculations are based on enhsim.

The result using enhsim 1.5.0 is: 5413 DPS

Notes:
- Darkmoon Card Crusade is only slighly better then FotFF
- 40Hit Food
- No Set bonus has been chosen in enhsim. (is valorous earthshatter bonus available in enhsim?)
You can put in set bonuses. Under procs and stuff, Naxx_4_melee.

I have Frosted Adroit Handguards + 4pc Valorous as BiS (if your Rogues let you have them). Hunter 4pc set bonus is pretty meh so they are probably much more interested in the Blue Aspect Helm then the Rogues are over the gloves.

Webbed Death is a superior option to Sinister Revenge for the offhand once you include 4pc Naxx. Hand of Nerub is actually about equal to Sinister Revenge once you have the 4pc bonus and is unlikely to be very contested (also looks amazing too).

Swap the Mirror for a Grim Toll.

With Frosted Adriot, Grim Toll and using Valorous Helm you can use Feast over the hit food.
#1117SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
Any specific reason why Webbed Death is superior to Sinister Revenge? I had assumed that a slower offhand would be superior but Sinister Revenge won out because of dps.
#1118SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bargle
"Lightning Daggers" revisited?

So, I was playing around with EnhSim last night, and I decided to see what dual Webbed Deaths would look like with my gear (I currently mainhand Calamity's Grasp and offhand Webbed Death). The results were rather surprising: EnhSim shows an increase of ~390 DPS by switching from Calamity's Grasp with WF to Webbed Death with FT in my mainhand. Am I missing something, or does this seem accurate? Configs/outputs below...



Calamity's Grasp w/WF + Webbed Death w/FT ~5927 DPS

Config:
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ST
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              SR
rotation_priority7              LL

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 144/144
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            dalaran_clam_chowder
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        1.40
mh_dps                          171.6
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         33.78
oh_crit                         33.78
mh_hit                          10.37
oh_hit                          10.37
mh_expertise_rating             214.00
oh_expertise_rating             214.00
ap                              3770
haste                           3.60
armor_penetration               2.01
str                             129
agi                             853
int                             457
spi                             153
spellpower                      1405
spell_crit                      27.56
spell_hit                       12.96
max_mana                        10971
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  0/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
Output:
................................................................................

MH:
miss                1302079        10.63%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            3060674        24.98%
hit                 1266509        10.34%
crit                6623148        54.06%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.42%
procs/swings        13.11%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1721051        45.99%
crit                2021099        54.01%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 933606         46.13%
crit                1090416        53.87%

OH:
miss                2427399        10.63%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            5706428        24.99%
hit                 2361432        10.34%
crit                12339126       54.04%

OH Flametongue:
miss                10034          0.04%
hit                 12827540       51.35%
crit                12145090       48.61%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 931308         46.01%
crit                1092714        53.99%

Earth Shock:
miss                1099           0.04%
hit                 1402884        51.36%
crit                1327609        48.60%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1172208        45.94%
crit                1379448        54.06%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                996            0.04%
hit                 1239502        51.36%
crit                1172923        48.60%


Lightning Shield:
miss                1151           0.04%
hit                 2729717        99.96%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 43.55

flurry uptime                  90.86%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   83.22%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              35.14%
oh enchant uptime              26.83%
trinket1 uptime                19.14%
trinket2 uptime                32.61%
totem uptime                   67.47%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 34.72     26.48%
replenishment       33.68     25.69%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 28.05     21.39%
shamanistic rage    34.67     26.44%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1809.37   30.53%    116.96
windfury            668.01    11.27%    6.24
flametongue         756.65    12.77%    83.28
stormstrike         285.69    4.82%     6.75      37.17     26.51%
lava lash           106.26    1.79%     8.51      16.51     11.77%
searing totem       413.63    6.98%     1.06      5.10      3.63%
earth shock         676.45    11.41%    9.11      34.64     24.70%
lightning bolt      842.33    14.21%    8.04      46.83     33.39%
lightning shield    368.17    6.21%     1.01      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 5926.57
MPS                 140.24
MP2min              16829.15
MRPS                154.31
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 8.34s
simulation speed: 2157497x

Webbed Death w/FT + Webbed Death w/FT ~6317 DPS

Config:
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ST
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              SR
rotation_priority7              LL

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0


spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 144/144
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            dalaran_clam_chowder
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        1.40
oh_speed                        1.40
mh_dps                          156.4
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         33.74
oh_crit                         33.74
mh_hit                          11.01
oh_hit                          11.01
mh_expertise_rating             214.00
oh_expertise_rating             214.00
ap                              3745
haste                           2.87
armor_penetration               2.01
str                             129
agi                             860
int                             457
spi                             153
spellpower                      1668
spell_crit                      29.43
spell_hit                       13.76
max_mana                        10971
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        flametongue
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  0/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   1/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
Output:
................................................................................

MH:
miss                2286304        10.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            5712946        24.99%
hit                 2523022        11.04%
crit                12335609       53.97%

MH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 11172840       49.48%
crit                11405912       50.52%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 925676         46.12%
crit                1081499        53.88%

OH:
miss                2274666        9.95%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            5696529        24.92%
hit                 2521513        11.03%
crit                12365173       54.10%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 12474744       49.48%
crit                12738974       50.52%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 924098         46.04%
crit                1083077        53.96%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1396034        49.51%
crit                1423759        50.49%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1207381        46.02%
crit                1415947        53.98%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1036203        49.56%
crit                1054542        50.44%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3058434        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 37.14

flurry uptime                  95.17%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   83.26%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              23.29%
oh enchant uptime              27.42%
trinket1 uptime                19.52%
trinket2 uptime                32.71%
totem uptime                   66.91%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 0.00      0.00%
replenishment       0.00      0.00%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      100.00%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1780.29   28.18%    152.39
flametongue         1677.09   26.55%    159.31
stormstrike         175.64    2.78%     6.69      36.86     27.46%
lava lash           108.32    1.71%     8.74      17.01     12.68%
searing totem       486.76    7.71%     1.05      5.08      3.79%
earth shock         782.66    12.39%    9.40      34.88     25.99%
lightning bolt      841.74    13.32%    6.97      40.39     30.09%
lightning shield    464.66    7.36%     1.13      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 6317.18
MPS                 134.23
MP2min              16107.82
MRPS                30.92
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 8.44s
simulation speed: 2133459x
#1119SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
I wondered about that, can anyone corroborate the sim results? I mean the sim is good, and we all put a lot of stock in it, still nice to double check this sort of thing.
#1120SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I'm doing a spreadsheet just now of the main choices for OH weapons with the aim of coming up with Sim dps figures for each weapon. At present Sinister Revenge is a clear winner. I'd be happier if someone could check the spreadsheet calcs though to confirm I've picked up every change. I've not finished so the results part requires further updating. The Sim Adjustments figures in the results is what I adjusted the base config by. I think I've caught everything but if this can be double checked please, and I'll adjust the results accordingly.

The base config file used was :
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            snapper_extreme
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        1.80
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          171.3
mh_crit                         31.32
oh_crit                         31.32
mh_hit                          10
oh_hit                          10
mh_expertise_rating             216
oh_expertise_rating             216
ap                              3799
haste                           6
armor_penetration               2
str                             133
agi                             942
int                             523
spi                             156
spellpower                      1414
spell_crit                      23.67
spell_hit                       12.5
max_mana                        11961
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
The results so far are :

Name			iLvl	Type			DPS	Speed	Agi	Hit	AP	ArP	Crit	Haste	Exp			
Anarchy			213	Dagger			156.4	1.8	29	28	86	25						
Angry Dread		213	One-Handed Mace		156.6	2.5	31	25	86		29					
Murder			213	Dagger			156.7	1.5	25	21	86			21				
Sinister Revenge	226	Dagger			171.1	1.8	36	37	98				24				
Split Greathammer	213	One-Handed Mace		156.6	1.6	43		66		29		21			
The Hand of Nerub	213	Fist Weapon		156.6	1.6	33	21	86		29					
Twilight Mist		213	Dagger			156.7	1.8	25	21	86			33				
Webbed Death		213	Dagger			156.4	2.4	43	21	66		31					
														
Differences from base stats of Sinister Revenge														
Name			iLvl	Type			DPS	Speed	Agi	Hit	AP	ArP	Crit	Haste	Exp			
Anarchy			213	Dagger			156.4	1.8	-7	-9	-12	25	0	-24	0			
Angry Dread		213	One-Handed Mace		156.6	2.5	-5	-12	-12	0	29	-24	0			
Murder			213	Dagger			156.7	1.5	-11	-16	-12	0	0	-3	0			
Sinister Revenge	226	Dagger			171.1	1.8	0	0	0	0	0	0	0			
Split Greathammer	213	One-Handed Mace		156.6	1.6	7	-37	-32	0	29	-24	21			
The Hand of Nerub	213	Fist Weapon		156.6	1.6	-3	-16	-12	0	29	-24	0			
Twilight Mist		213	Dagger			156.7	1.8	-11	-16	-12	0	0	9	0			
Webbed Death		213	Dagger			156.4	2.4	7	-16	-32	0	31	-24	0			
														
Sim adjustments									Hit Percentage			Crit Percentage				
Name			iLvl	Type			DPS	Speed	Agi	Melee	Spell	AP	ArP	Melee	Spell	Haste	Exp	Spellpower
Anarchy			213	Dagger			156.4	1.8	-7	-0.27	-0.34	-19	1.62	-0.08	0.00	-0.73	0	-6
Angry Dread		213	One-Handed Mace		156.6	2.5	-5	-0.37	-0.46	-17	0.00	0.57	0.63	-0.73	0	-6
Murder			213	Dagger			156.7	1.5	-11	-0.49	-0.61	-23	0.00	-0.13	0.00	-0.09	0	-8
Sinister Revenge	226	Dagger			171.1	1.8	0	0.00	0.00	0	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0	0
Split Greathammer	213	One-Handed Mace		156.6	1.6	7	-1.13	-1.41	-25	0.00	0.72	0.63	-0.73	21	-8
The Hand of Nerub	213	Fist Weapon		156.6	1.6	-3	-0.49	-0.61	-15	0.00	0.60	0.63	-0.73	0	-5
Twilight Mist		213	Dagger			156.7	1.8	-11	-0.49	-0.61	-23	0.00	-0.13	0.00	0.27	0	-8
Webbed Death		213	Dagger			156.4	2.4	7	-0.49	-0.61	-25	0.00	0.76	0.68	-0.73	0	-8
														
Sim Results														
Name			iLvl	Type			DPS	Speed	Sim DPS								
Anarchy			213	Dagger			156.4	1.8	5437.03								
Angry Dread		213	One-Handed Mace		156.6	2.5	5396.01								
Murder			213	Dagger			156.7	1.5										
Sinister Revenge	226	Dagger			171.1	1.8	5492.33								
Split Greathammer	213	One-Handed Mace		156.6	1.6										
The Hand of Nerub	213	Fist Weapon		156.6	1.6										
Twilight Mist		213	Dagger			156.7	1.8										
Webbed Death		213	Dagger			156.4	2.4
BTW it strikes me this would be best taken to a separate thread to discuss OH weapons, as a topic I'm sure it will be the subject of ongoing debate, especially when patch 3.1 comes out. I am assuming of course that the sim is giving accurate results.
#1121SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Bargle View Post
So, I was playing around with EnhSim last night, and I decided to see what dual Webbed Deaths would look like with my gear (I currently mainhand Calamity's Grasp and offhand Webbed Death). The results were rather surprising: EnhSim shows an increase of ~390 DPS by switching from Calamity's Grasp with WF to Webbed Death with FT in my mainhand. Am I missing something, or does this seem accurate? Configs/outputs below...
You added in the imbues.

You changed the stats to allow for the weapon difference but you then added the additional spellpower for the Flametongue imbues.

Click off ALL imbues and then copy the paper doll stats since the Sim will add the spellpower from Flametongue imbue when you select that option on the "Procs and Stuff" panel.

Fixing your Spellpower brings it to a 1131 with CG+WD and 1120 with WDx2 then running the exact same setting through the sim gives

CG+WD=5611

and

WDx2=5595

Which still makes it an issue since WD gets better as you add more haste. But since they are changing WF glyph next patch it will push the balance right back into WF's favor and move the issue off the table for now.

Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I'm doing a spreadsheet just now of the main choices for OH weapons with the aim of coming up with Sim dps figures for each weapon.
Levva, you did it too.

You are adding in the spellpower from Flametongue imbue into your paperdoll stats.

I'm probably the only enhancement shaman with over 1400 spellpower atm and that's because KT is a bitch and won't give me my Calamities Grasp so I am stuck with using a Wrathstrike. Think about it, without a spellpower weapon or elemental gear you need 4667AP to get 1400 spellpower from Mental Quickness.

Zyla and I have been discussing offhands over the last few days and based on my sim runs with my stats (which aren't really ideal and favor a faster offhand more then normal due to the additional spellpower from the Wrathstrike as well as the fact that I run with Mongoosex2 so the haste also favors the faster offhand).

Webbed Death > Sinister Revenge = Hand of Nerub > Angry Dread

Last edited by Rouncer : 01/05/09 at 12:35 PM.
#1122SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I'm probably the only enhancement shaman with over 1400 spellpower atm
Unbuffed or buffed? I had over 1900 last night at some point when I glanced at it.
(Just checked and I'm at 1336 on the armory with no buffs, so I don't think you're ~that~ much higher than everyone else considering I'm missing several BiS items.)
#1123SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Unbuffed or buffed? I had over 1900 last night at some point when I glanced at it.
(Just checked and I'm at 1336 on the armory with no buffs, so I don't think you're ~that~ much higher than everyone else considering I'm missing several BiS items.)
Your 1336 is including 274 from Flametongue so you really only have 1062 spellpower. I clicked off my imbues before I logged because I wanted to copy my stats from the Armory while I am at work, to play with the Sim.

Completely unbuffed I have 1524 spellpower and with Flametongue on offhand I have 1798 spellpower (that's also with the wrong boots - I logged out on my heroic set which has boots with runspeed on them instead of my Sapp boots with Icewalker).

461 spellpower from that mainhand is a lot, true I would much rather have your mainhand but mine doesn't sim out too badly until KT wants to cooperate.

Last edited by Rouncer : 01/05/09 at 2:31 PM.
#1124SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Zyla
Levva: you have Webbed Death at 2.4 speed. It is 1.4.

edit: beaten
#1125SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ncervantes
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Webbed Death > Sinister Revenge = Hand of Nerub > Angry Dread
Can you link sim's that brought you to this conclusion? I just picked up Anarchy and wanted to see how it compares to the rest.
#1126SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by ncervantes View Post
Can you link sim's that brought you to this conclusion?
nope.

Those are an ordering based on my stats and inputting the weapons into the Sim. If you want to waste some time feel free to armory me, replace the boots with [Boots of the Great Construct] stick an accurate monarch in the slot and enchant them with Icewalker and run the Sim for yourself.

Offhands have a lot of issues with modeling for BiS since Lava Lash likes slow weapons and Flametongue likes them fast with lots of haste, so the results are really going to be very dependent on the rest of your stats and especially on whether or not you are using 4pc T7-Melee.
#1127SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
ncervantes
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
nope.

Those are an ordering based on my stats and inputting the weapons into the Sim. If you want to waste some time feel free to armory me, replace the boots with [Boots of the Great Construct] stick an accurate monarch in the slot and enchant them with Icewalker and run the Sim for yourself.

Offhands have a lot of issues with modeling for BiS since Lava Lash likes slow weapons and Flametongue likes them fast with lots of haste, so the results are really going to be very dependent on the rest of your stats and especially on whether or not you are using 4pc T7-Melee.

Well I just played around with my characters stats and if my sim is correct I get the following.

Webbed Death > Sinister Revenge = Angry Dread > Hand of Nerub

Last edited by ncervantes : 01/05/09 at 4:53 PM.
#1128SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by ncervantes View Post
Well I just played around with my characters stats and if my sim is correct I get the following.

Webbed Death > Sinister Revenge = Angry Dread > Hand of Nerub
My only question is, did you use 1083 as the spellpower value or 1357?

The value that should be in the Sim is 1083, since 1357 is including flametongue on the offhand.

From a cursory look at your Armory profile you actually should have Angry Dread much higher in that list since you aren't running with 4pc T7, so that's 5% less of the haste that Flametongue weapon benefits from but that Lava Lash derives no benefit from.
#1129SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
ncervantes
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
My only question is, did you use 1083 as the spellpower value or 1357?

The value that should be in the Sim is 1083, since 1357 is including flametongue on the offhand.

From a cursory look at your Armory profile you actually should have Angry Dread much higher in that list since you aren't running with 4pc T7, so that's 5% less of the haste that Flametongue weapon benefits from but that Lava Lash derives no benefit from.
I thought I had fixed that but obviously I didn't. You are correct. I just reran the sim (with Anarchy) and received the following. Does that look better to you?

Angry Dread > Sinister Revenge >Webbed Death > Anarchy > Hand of Nerub


Another question, are you seeing Stonebreaker's totem siming higher than the totem of splintering?

Last edited by ncervantes : 01/05/09 at 5:53 PM.
#1130SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
The value that should be in the Sim is 1083, since 1357 is including flametongue on the offhand.
Are you certain that the sim is adding flametongue spell power for you? Tukez has always said that you should report exactly what's on your character sheet, and that would include the bonus spell damage from flametongue. I'd expect that you're short changing yourself if you aren't using it in your spellpower total.
#1131SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
bobxii
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Windfury
No, windfury doesn't count towards WHITE MH PPM.


The reason FT/FT fast/fast is winning is simple: spells hit for full damage (plus spell damage buffs) and physical doesn't because it suffers reduction from boss armor. In other words, 100% of the stat increase from gear applies to spell damage, but only xyz% (armor reduction) applies to physical damage; spell will win out eventually.

Last edited by bobxii : 01/05/09 at 6:04 PM.
#1132SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Bargle
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
You added in the imbues.

You changed the stats to allow for the weapon difference but you then added the additional spellpower for the Flametongue imbues.

Click off ALL imbues and then copy the paper doll stats since the Sim will add the spellpower from Flametongue imbue when you select that option on the "Procs and Stuff" panel.

Fixing your Spellpower brings it to a 1131 with CG+WD and 1120 with WDx2 then running the exact same setting through the sim gives

CG+WD=5611

and

WDx2=5595

Which still makes it an issue since WD gets better as you add more haste. But since they are changing WF glyph next patch it will push the balance right back into WF's favor and move the issue off the table for now.
After subtracting the FT imbue bonus spellpower and the 2% spell crit per FT imbue, I'm still getting 5686 DPS for CG+WD and 5690*** DPS for dual WDs, but that's a pretty negligible difference.


Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Webbed Death > Sinister Revenge = Hand of Nerub > Angry Dread
This is the same order I'm coming up with, minus the Hand of Nerub as I haven't simmed it.




***Edit: The sim doesn't add the additional 2% spell crit from having a second glyphed flametongue imbue active. After manually adding 2% crit, dual WDs sims out at 5740 DPS, a 50 DPS increase over CG+WD.

Last edited by Bargle : 01/05/09 at 7:20 PM.
#1133SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by ncervantes View Post
I thought I had fixed that but obviously I didn't. You are correct. I just reran the sim (with Anarchy) and received the follow. Does that look better to you?

Angry Dread > Sinister Revenge >Webbed Death > Anarchy > Hand of Nerub
Pretty much, although I am a little surprised by Anarchy beating Hand of Nerub.

What you are seeing is Lava Lash getting more use out of the slower speed of Angry Dread then Flametongue can get out of the faster swing time of the other weapons. When you get 4pc T7 it flips everything around, basically, and then Flametongue gets more from the faster swing timer then Lava Lash loses.

This is why a definitive list isn't really possible at this time. Unless they change Flametongue so that the coefficient scales with weapon speed there will always be this 3rd order interaction complicating the situation.
#1134SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ncervantes
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Pretty much, although I am a little surprised by Anarchy beating Hand of Nerub.

What you are seeing is Lava Lash getting more use out of the slower speed of Angry Dread then Flametongue can get out of the faster swing time of the other weapons. When you get 4pc T7 it flips everything around, basically, and then Flametongue gets more from the faster swing timer then Lava Lash loses.

This is why a definitive list isn't really possible at this time. Unless they change Flametongue so that the coefficient scales with weapon speed there will always be this 3rd order interaction complicating the situation.
That makes sense. I'll run this again if I ever decide to go with 4pc T7-Melee. Thanks again.
#1135SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Are you certain that the sim is adding flametongue spell power for you? Tukez has always said that you should report exactly what's on your character sheet, and that would include the bonus spell damage from flametongue. I'd expect that you're short changing yourself if you aren't using it in your spellpower total.
Nah, when you select Flametongue imbue it adds the spellpower for you. Simple check, plug in your stats and then select WF/WF and run an hour. Then select WF/FT and run another hour, then select FT/FT and run one more hour.

Now compare the Earth Shock damage between the 3 samples and you will see the spellpower being added and then stacked with the Flametongue imbues.

Originally Posted by bobxii View Post
No, windfury doesn't count towards WHITE MH PPM.


The reason FT/FT fast/fast is winning is simple: spells hit for full damage (plus spell damage buffs) and physical doesn't because it suffers reduction from boss armor. In other words, 100% of the stat increase from gear applies to spell damage, but only xyz% (armor reduction) applies to physical damage; spell will win out eventually.
No, it was winning because he made a simple mistake when he entered his stats. It is close but that has nothing to do with armor penetration or anything like that, it's that close because Blizzard in their infinite wisdom made the coefficient for flametongue static so it scales incredibly well with haste and fast weapons.

Even so with the fastest decent weapon available (I'm not simming out a [Librarian's Paper Cutter] on general principles) it is just barely equaling windfury on the best available mainhand. Once the new glyph is available Windfury will blow Flametongue outta the water on the mainhand so the point will become moot for at least the next tier or two of gear.

As for "Windfury doesn't count towards the white MH ppm" maybe you should do your research better. Windfury hits count as instant attacks and can proc everything including Maelstrom Weapon charges.

Originally Posted by ncervantes View Post
That makes sense. I'll run this again if I ever decide to go with 4pc T7-Melee. Thanks again.
You're welcome. By the way, grab 4pc T7 as soon as you can. It's about a 170dps increase, according to the sim, since it is basically the equivalent of adding roughly 148 haste rating (5% haste = 164 haste rating with 90% uptime = 148).

Last edited by Rouncer : 01/05/09 at 6:34 PM.
#1136SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
As for "Windfury doesn't count towards the white MH ppm" maybe you should do your research better. Windfury hits count as instant attacks and can proc everything including Maelstrom Weapon charges.
That is obvious, but it does not count as white PPM in the sim. That is what I was talking about, as is entirely obvious from the topic we were discussing. If it did, he would be looking at 100+ PPM.
#1137SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by bobxii View Post
That is obvious, but it does not count as white PPM in the sim. That is what I was talking about, as is entirely obvious from the topic we were discussing. If it did, he would be looking at 100+ PPM.
Obviously I must be an idiot then cause it obviously wasn't obvious to me what you are attempting to show with your "chart".

Could you be a little more clear on what you think you have found that is a flaw or an error in the sim?
#1138SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Nah, when you select Flametongue imbue it adds the spellpower for you. Simple check, plug in your stats and then select WF/WF and run an hour. Then select WF/FT and run another hour, then select FT/FT and run one more hour.

Now compare the Earth Shock damage between the 3 samples and you will see the spellpower being added and then stacked with the Flametongue imbues.
That flies contrary to how the sim works for everything else then and Tukez probably ought to clarify it somewhere.
#1139SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
That flies contrary to how the sim works for everything else then and Tukez probably ought to clarify it somewhere.

Not really, would you expect to copy your paperdoll stats with a flask and buffs active? The imbues are the same thing. Otherwise if you were to change weapons to Flametongue or to Windfury you would have to manually recalculate the spellpower changes each time.
#1140SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I was thinking that we should start a new thread for the sole purpose of evaluating the results of OH weapons, this would keep the sim thread cleaner and give a reference point for OH weapon choices.

The default config file I started with was the one suggested a couple of posts before mine as an Enh Shammy with a "perfect" set. Sadly my own gear is not as good as that yet. I then modified it to include the Naxx 4 bonus as Rounced had pointed out. What I was hoping to do was a methodical test

1) start with a default base config file with an agreed set of stats

2) list the weapons and have an agreed variance about how much each stat in the sim config needs changed

3) run the sim with ONLY those agreed changes for each weapon

This should give decent base figures for each weapon for evaluation purposes. From that we can then look at the effects of subsiduary changes eg: using different glyphs for a fast vs a slow weapon.

As new weapons are added we can evaluate them on the same basis. Of course individuals may see different results as they will have lesser gear than the optimised base config. However if we use an agreed base config we have a methodology to work with to come up with solid numbers for theorycrafting.



Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Not really, would you expect to copy your paperdoll stats with a flask and buffs active? The imbues are the same thing. Otherwise if you were to change weapons to Flametongue or to Windfury you would have to manually recalculate the spellpower changes each time.
I can confirm that ShockAndAwe when exporting should warn you if you still have weapon imbues active when you export, as I had assumed that you should copy the paper doll stats with NO buffs (other than Heroic Presence - Draenei buff you can't right click to get rid of).
#1141SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ziff
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
That flies contrary to how the sim works for everything else then and Tukez probably ought to clarify it somewhere.
Looking at the code for 1.5.0, in EnhSimConfig.cpp, EnhSimConfig::setMhWeaponEnchant line 961

    else if (mh_weapon_enchant_ == "flametongue") {
      enhsims_[i]->useEffect(enhsims_[i]->mh_flametongue_);
      if (once) {
        spellpower_ += FLAMETONGUE_BONUS_SPELLPOWER;
      }
    }
Where FLAMETONGUE_BONUS_SPELLPOWER is set to 211 in Level80.h. The same block of code exists in EnhSimConfig::setOhWeaponEnchant in the same file.

Seems pretty clear to me that the sim is automatically adding in the bonus from Flametongue, but I didn't step through the code running in a debugger so I can't be totally positive.
#1142SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Artoxia
i hit more than 341 hit so i ran the sim to see how much hit is still worth.

my first Result was:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3574.77
ap                        1.00      0.36      3646.29        71.52
crit rating               2.25      0.80      3598.87        24.10
hit rating                3.45      1.23      3611.75        36.98
expertise rating          0.79      0.28      3584.02        9.25
haste rating              1.73      0.62      3593.30        18.53
armor penetration rating  1.46      0.52      3590.39        15.62
i was wondering if this is correct so i changed mit hit % in the config file from 11.xx % to 15% and ran the sim again. this is the result:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3657.32
ap                        1.00      0.36      3730.13        72.82
crit rating               2.08      0.76      3680.05        22.73
hit rating                3.33      1.21      3693.68        36.36
expertise rating          0.76      0.28      3666.44        9.13
haste rating              1.71      0.62      3676.01        18.69
Did you guys get to the same result that hit is (after spell hit cap) still the the stat with the highest ep vlue?
#1143SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
SentinelBorg
Originally Posted by Rounced
Which still makes it an issue since WD gets better as you add more haste. But since they are changing WF glyph next patch it will push the balance right back into WF's favor and move the issue off the table for now.
That and two other changes could end this issue once and for all:

- WF cooldown scaling with melee haste.
- FT completely scaling with weapon speed, with a 10% spelldamage coefficient at a weapon speed of 2.5 seconds.

And I agree, we should have another thread for the OH topic. Actualy there are multiple topics rolled into this thread. I think, this thread should only concentrate on the usage and improvement of the tool, not on the discussion of its results.

Originally Posted by Artoxia
Did you guys get to the same result that hit is (after spell hit cap) still the the stat with the highest ep vlue?
No, it dropped down from 3.1 to around 1.6 for me.

Last edited by SentinelBorg : 01/06/09 at 11:01 AM.
#1144SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
There are quite a few subtle changes in patch 3.0.8 I noted for example a change on of Judgement of Wisdom changing from chance of 1% max mana to chance of 2% base mana, that is a nerf. We have 4396 base mana so JoW will now give fixed 88 mana per proc. This is equivalent to someone who had only 8800 mana a pathetically low figure. So we are going from around 110-120 JoW mana per proc to 88.
#1145SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paenor
Ugh, OK well sorry if this post is a little sloppy, I just wrote out a novel and accidentally lost it as I went to preview the post before submitting it. I wanted to post this a day or two ago, but the delay between registering and posting delayed that. So I'm not really in high spirits to write it all out again.


Now then, on the topic of Webbed Death being the best offhand, a week or two ago I simulated a bunch of offhands myself, and came to the same conclusion. However, since then I've refined my process, and though I little out of the box and came up with something much more interesting.

As a prefix to these results. They were all calculated with the same gear, spec, gems, glyphs. Keep in mind that the glyphs I currently have are Windfury, Flametongue, and Stormstrike. I started by taking off my weapons and input my stats without them. I then went and adding the stats for the weapons in myself by hand. Yes, I remembered to calculates stats make and the effect of ap on spellpower.

Additionally, my gear isn't overly good. Up until this week I haven't really done any 25man content. I do however have pretty much everything you would want from 10man raiding. Unfortunately, as I did all the tests with the same setup up, some combination do fall below the spell hit cap. However, it doesn't really change the end result of what I'm trying to show. So bear with me.

I'll write some notes before each log, and summaries the results below if you don't care about the logs themselves.

Vanilla 'best'
[Calamity's Grasp]/WF & [Angry Dread]/FT 4881.16dps
MH:
miss                6795090        11.09%
dodge               919525         1.50%
glancing            15320141       25.00%
hit                 8261107        13.48%
crit                29991914       48.94%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.21%
procs/swings        13.53%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               287765         1.50%
hit                 9638347        50.34%
crit                9219888        48.16%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               142224         1.50%
hit                 4780729        50.37%
crit                4568173        48.13%

OH:
miss                7062433        11.08%
dodge               955548         1.50%
glancing            15940362       25.01%
hit                 8576355        13.45%
crit                31207534       48.96%

OH Flametongue:
miss                611092         0.80%
hit                 43406970       56.72%
crit                32511588       42.48%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               140458         1.50%
hit                 4701739        50.29%
crit                4506705        48.21%

Earth Shock:
miss                102293         0.80%
hit                 7260217        56.72%
crit                5436780        42.48%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               176701         1.50%
hit                 5899806        50.11%
crit                5697149        48.39%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                96727          0.80%
hit                 6887951        56.73%
crit                5157457        42.48%

Lightning Shield:
miss                82803          0.80%
hit                 10301236       99.20%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 44.89

flurry uptime                  89.52%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   76.76%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              34.55%
oh enchant uptime              30.68%
trinket1 uptime                20.53%
trinket2 uptime                18.03%
totem uptime                   47.14%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 16.76     13.94%
replenishment       35.15     29.23%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 28.06     23.34%
shamanistic rage    40.27     33.49%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1551.53   31.79%    83.35
windfury            627.69    12.86%    6.38
flametongue         496.25    10.17%    51.02
stormstrike         267.92    5.49%     6.33      34.86     26.41%
lava lash           151.04    3.09%     7.85      15.74     11.92%
searing totem       298.37    6.11%     1.00      4.82      3.65%
earth shock         566.74    11.61%    8.53      30.51     23.11%
lightning bolt      743.16    15.23%    8.09      46.07     34.90%
lightning shield    178.47    3.66%     0.77      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4881.16
MPS                 132.01
MP2min              15840.76
MRPS                139.02
Out of mana time    0.08%

elapsed simulation time: 25000.00h
elapsed real time: 90.47s
simulation speed: 994826x
Next, the recent 'proposed best'. I realise I had stated earlier that Webbed Death came out ahead of Angry Dread, but that was using my gear from a week or two ago. Since then I had replaced a fair amount of hit rating, and I suspect that is the major difference. Luckily, this isn't really what I'm trying to prove anyways, so it doesn't much matter.
[Calamity's Grasp]/WF & [Webbed Death]/FT 4860.64dps
MH:
miss                6836320        11.22%
dodge               914908         1.50%
glancing            15229615       25.00%
hit                 8224680        13.50%
crit                29715523       48.78%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.25%
procs/swings        13.54%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               286225         1.50%
hit                 9625068        50.50%
crit                9149141        48.00%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               141822         1.50%
hit                 4771435        50.48%
crit                4537990        48.01%

OH:
miss                12765703       11.21%
dodge               1706407        1.50%
glancing            28459387       25.00%
hit                 15322060       13.46%
crit                55587652       48.83%

OH Flametongue:
miss                1106565        0.92%
hit                 67899454       56.48%
crit                51217862       42.60%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               139120         1.49%
hit                 4691158        50.39%
crit                4479147        48.11%

Earth Shock:
miss                118620         0.92%
hit                 7269872        56.47%
crit                5485547        42.61%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               178190         1.50%
hit                 5959049        50.23%
crit                5725428        48.26%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                105815         0.92%
hit                 6496977        56.51%
crit                4894156        42.57%

Lightning Shield:
miss                116087         0.92%
hit                 12565008       99.08%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 42.18

flurry uptime                  87.33%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   75.99%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              34.43%
oh enchant uptime              25.95%
trinket1 uptime                20.87%
trinket2 uptime                18.81%
totem uptime                   47.39%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 16.81     14.02%
replenishment       35.26     29.41%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 29.60     24.69%
shamanistic rage    38.21     31.88%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1540.71   31.7%     116.51
windfury            623.85    12.83%    6.35
flametongue         624.34    12.84%    80.15
stormstrike         229.30    4.72%     6.30      34.72     26.74%
lava lash           85.05     1.75%     7.91      15.94     12.28%
searing totem       292.26    6.01%     1.00      4.83      3.72%
earth shock         561.74    11.56%    8.58      30.71     23.66%
lightning bolt      689.63    14.19%    7.66      43.64     33.61%
lightning shield    213.76    4.4%      0.94      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4860.64
MPS                 129.83
MP2min              15579.92
MRPS                134.09
Out of mana time    0.07%

elapsed simulation time: 25000.00h
elapsed real time: 103.22s
simulation speed: 871940x
Ok, here is where things get a bit interesting. I thought that if we were trying to maximize flametongue damage through weapon speed. Why not just go all out with it and see what happens?
Remember to keep in mind i'm still using the Windfury Glyph in this test even though it does me no good!
[Torch of Holy Fire]/FT & [Webbed Death]/FT 5032.07dps
MH:
miss                9884476        11.21%
dodge               1324895        1.50%
glancing            22030512       24.99%
hit                 13160042       14.93%
crit                41743051       47.36%

MH Flametongue:
miss                793046         0.92%
hit                 47378679       54.97%
crit                38019837       44.11%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               140705         1.50%
hit                 4883475        51.96%
crit                4374482        46.54%

OH:
miss                12725280       11.21%
dodge               1703966        1.50%
glancing            28394010       25.00%
hit                 16962031       14.94%
crit                53771349       47.35%

OH Flametongue:
miss                1106742        0.92%
hit                 66117594       54.97%
crit                53056815       44.11%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               139763         1.51%
hit                 4801561        51.86%
crit                4316633        46.63%

Earth Shock:
miss                119952         0.92%
hit                 7165713        54.96%
crit                5752566        44.12%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               182666         1.50%
hit                 6314589        51.68%
crit                5720978        46.82%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                92252          0.92%
hit                 5518550        54.96%
crit                4430227        44.12%

Lightning Shield:
miss                119113         0.92%
hit                 12869673       99.08%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 35.94

flurry uptime                  84.69%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   75.57%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              23.35%
oh enchant uptime              26.01%
trinket1 uptime                20.91%
trinket2 uptime                18.83%
totem uptime                   47.99%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 19.92     19.61%
replenishment       35.79     35.23%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 30.46     29.98%
shamanistic rage    15.42     15.18%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1367.91   27.18%    134.47
flametongue         1371.70   27.26%    137.65
stormstrike         151.90    3.02%     6.27      34.52     27.73%
lava lash           85.00     1.69%     8.15      16.45     13.21%
searing totem       376.65    7.49%     1.00      4.83      3.88%
earth shock         670.68    13.33%    8.69      30.66     24.63%
lightning bolt      745.07    14.81%    6.69      38.02     30.54%
lightning shield    263.15    5.23%     0.96      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 5032.07
MPS                 124.49
MP2min              14938.61
MRPS                103.91
Out of mana time    0.02%

elapsed simulation time: 25000.00h
elapsed real time: 107.27s
simulation speed: 839043x
Well then, we should probably check to see if it's just the torch that is giving us that huge boost.
[Torch of Holy Fire]/FT & [Angry Dread]/FT 4870.93dps
MH:
miss                9688635        11.09%
dodge               1311894        1.50%
glancing            21839892       25.00%
hit                 13899140       15.91%
crit                40607093       46.49%

MH Flametongue:
miss                684424         0.80%
hit                 46607854       54.42%
crit                38359852       44.79%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               142609         1.51%
hit                 4980297        52.71%
crit                4325708        45.78%

OH:
miss                6943263        11.08%
dodge               938876         1.50%
glancing            15657857       25.00%
hit                 9974172        15.92%
crit                29126094       46.50%

OH Flametongue:
miss                607611         0.80%
hit                 41295767       54.41%
crit                33987362       44.78%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               139473         1.50%
hit                 4905892        52.72%
crit                4260640        45.78%

Earth Shock:
miss                104031         0.80%
hit                 7060311        54.43%
crit                5807978        44.77%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               181718         1.50%
hit                 6379367        52.51%
crit                5586718        45.99%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                84999          0.80%
hit                 5774986        54.41%
crit                4753464        44.79%

Lightning Shield:
miss                83910          0.79%
hit                 10478827       99.21%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 38.20

flurry uptime                  84.96%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   77.08%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              0.00%
oh enchant uptime              0.00%
trinket1 uptime                20.58%
trinket2 uptime                17.99%
totem uptime                   47.79%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 19.87     18.03%
replenishment       35.64     32.34%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 28.98     26.30%
shamanistic rage    25.70     23.33%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1330.32   27.31%    99.99
flametongue         1168.94   24%       107.70
stormstrike         185.70    3.81%     6.30      34.71     27.56%
lava lash           148.62    3.05%     8.10      16.18     12.85%
searing totem       373.79    7.67%     1.00      4.83      3.83%
earth shock         666.29    13.68%    8.65      30.17     23.96%
lightning bolt      784.81    16.11%    7.08      40.05     31.80%
lightning shield    212.46    4.36%     0.78      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4870.93
MPS                 125.93
MP2min              15112.03
MRPS                115.28
Out of mana time    0.04%

elapsed simulation time: 25000.00h
elapsed real time: 88.89s
simulation speed: 1012487x
Finally, I had simulated what Rounced just joked about, I snickered when I came back today and saw he mentioned it....
[Torch of Holy Fire]/FT & [Librarian's Paper Cutter]FT 4954.04dps
MH:
miss                10545094       11.86%
dodge               1334601        1.50%
glancing            22236353       25.01%
hit                 13286951       14.94%
crit                41511014       46.69%

MH Flametongue:
miss                1344626        1.56%
hit                 46647025       54.05%
crit                38304212       44.39%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               141530         1.51%
hit                 4940564        52.54%
crit                4320981        45.95%

OH:
miss                14618399       11.86%
dodge               1849576        1.50%
glancing            30820292       25.00%
hit                 18413585       14.94%
crit                57566427       46.70%

OH Flametongue:
miss                1997180        1.56%
hit                 69179274       54.05%
crit                56820110       44.39%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               138839         1.50%
hit                 4867564        52.56%
crit                4255142        45.94%

Earth Shock:
miss                203503         1.56%
hit                 7059111        54.06%
crit                5794236        44.38%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               183474         1.50%
hit                 6413201        52.32%
crit                5660353        46.18%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                155371         1.56%
hit                 5402450        54.08%
crit                4432323        44.37%

Lightning Shield:
miss                209452         1.56%
hit                 13203640       98.44%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 35.74

flurry uptime                  83.91%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   75.74%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              23.22%
oh enchant uptime              25.44%
trinket1 uptime                20.95%
trinket2 uptime                18.91%
totem uptime                   47.84%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 19.93     19.76%
replenishment       35.76     35.45%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 30.42     30.15%
shamanistic rage    14.76     14.64%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1318.56   26.62%    141.45
flametongue         1387.12   28%       142.86
stormstrike         143.50    2.9%      6.27      34.54     27.80%
lava lash           73.84     1.49%     8.17      16.49     13.27%
searing totem       370.79    7.48%     1.00      4.83      3.89%
earth shock         663.36    13.39%    8.70      30.61     24.64%
lightning bolt      730.05    14.74%    6.66      37.79     30.41%
lightning shield    266.81    5.39%     0.99      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4954.04
MPS                 124.25
MP2min              14910.54
MRPS                102.81
Out of mana time    0.02%

elapsed simulation time: 25000.00h
elapsed real time: 119.30s
simulation speed: 754425x

So, what are the final results?

[Calamity's Grasp]/WF & [Angry Dread]/FT 4881.16dps
[Calamity's Grasp]/WF & [Webbed Death]/FT 4860.64dps
[Torch of Holy Fire]/FT & [Webbed Death]/FT 5032.07dps
[Torch of Holy Fire]/FT & [Angry Dread]/FT 4870.93dps
[Torch of Holy Fire]/FT & [Librarian's Paper Cutter]/FT 4954.04dps

Oh dear. A BoE blue the second best offhand? Well hold on now! If you noticed from the simulations I actually have almost a 1.6 miss rate with spells using the Librarian's Paper Cutter. With some poking around with my stats (hit rating mostly) you can actually get it's dps higher than Webbed Death. As my gear isn't that good, it is actually quite possible that it IS the best offhand for you!

However, this is just theorycrafting. How about some real numbers?

Initial testing with a target dummy seems to confirm my tests. Additionally, last night to finish off 10man Naxx I threw mongoose on a [Blade of Dormant Memories] to replace my normal [Kel'Thuzad's Reach], to use along side my [Pride]. There was a noticeable DPS increase. Especially on Loatheb where flametongue did nearly 40% of my total damage.
Now I could upload a WWS for you guys if you really want, however I'm not sure how much it would prove to you. I started the instance without maxed dagger weapon skill (about 370), and it didn't get maxed out until after all of Plague wing, and Anub/Grand Widow. Additionally, it was only Spider/Plague wings and KT, and as I don't have a good data set from a previous week to compare it to. Furthermore, I didn't use consumables, and for all you know I might do 5600dps on Loatheb and 3500dps on Grand Window with my 10man gear normally. So really, I urge other people who actually have better gear than I to actually try it yourself and post your data.

Now between losing the post, and having to delay posting this i've forgotten what else I had to say. So i'll just post it in a list as it comes to me:
-As Rounced said, next patch the Windfury Glyph is getting a make over. However, i'm not so sure it will make up for the dps gap. Remember, that if I were to respec, switch my Windfury Glyph to Lightning Shield, and regem/enchant the gap becomes much larger.
-Hit rating becomes more important with these weapons and setup with so much damage coming from flametongue. With Heroism I got my mainhand down to attacking at 0.86 speed. With my average crit on a Flametongue at 950, missing can add up fast and hit you pretty hard.
-Threat might become something you have to watch. When literally 80% of your damage is coming from magic sources, spirit weapons doesn't help that much.
#1146SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Gartixxar
This question was answered in a earlier post.

Last edited by Gartixxar : 01/06/09 at 10:09 PM. Reason: question answered in earlier post
#1147SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shammando
Struggling to get EnhSim to work

I'm having trouble getting EnhSim to work properly. Perhaps something in my config is wrong but I've scoured it for a couple hours and run it over and over and never break 1500dps in simulation. Here is my config log, as well as the corresponding sim results and EP value results. Ty for any help. Note I'm including the full config as perhaps something above my inputted stats is off.

simulation_time                 100000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   10
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1


flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          runic_mana_potion
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          156.5
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         26.70
oh_crit                         26.70
mh_hit                          10.73
oh_hit                          10.73
mh_expertise_rating             214
oh_expertise_rating             214
ap                              3331
haste                           5.03
armor_penetration               0.0
str                             135
agi                             801
int                             434
spi                             155
spellpower                      999
spell_crit                      18.98
spell_hit                       13.42
max_mana                        10626
mp5                             90

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
Simulation output from said config file (using lv80, not ele):

MH:
miss                194896         13.37%
dodge               29250          2.01%
glancing            364663         25.01%
hit                 274808         18.85%
crit                594163         40.76%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.78%
procs/swings        14.62%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               10528          2.01%
hit                 303665         57.96%
crit                209709         40.03%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               6750           2.02%
hit                 193046         57.82%
crit                134072         40.16%

OH:
miss                379174         13.34%
dodge               56818          2.00%
glancing            710540         24.99%
hit                 537326         18.90%
crit                1159129        40.77%

OH Flametongue:
miss                104386         3.24%
hit                 2282286        70.87%
crit                833743         25.89%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               6685           2.04%
hit                 188720         57.69%
crit                131713         40.26%

Earth Shock:
miss                5217           3.20%
hit                 115610         70.85%
crit                42359          25.96%

Flame Shock:
miss                11432          3.23%
hit                 250259         70.74%
crit                92076          26.03%
dots                854769.00

Lava Burst:
miss                10781          3.26%
hit                 0              0.00%
crit                319492         96.74%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               10077          2.00%
hit                 291397         57.92%
crit                201590         40.07%

Lightning Shield:
miss                11774          3.29%
hit                 345765         96.71%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 27.51

flurry uptime                  81.66%
unleashed rage uptime          99.88%
elemental devastation uptime   90.98%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              26.61%
oh enchant uptime              21.91%
trinket1 uptime                30.99%
trinket2 uptime                38.66%
totem uptime                   47.17%
set bonus uptime               95.01%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.82      1.09%
mp5                 16.90     22.54%
replenishment       23.47     31.32%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      0.00%
shamanistic rage    33.76     45.05%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               332.47    22.81%    71.68
windfury            168.05    11.53%    4.37
flametongue         212.81    14.6%     53.67
stormstrike         73.09     5.02%     5.56      30.66     32.13%
lava lash           29.13     2%        8.38      15.95     16.72%
earth shock         83.08     5.7%      2.72      10.25     10.74%
flame shock         139.27    9.56%     5.90      2.56      2.68%
lava burst          347.05    23.81%    5.50      35.99     37.72%
lightning shield    72.53     4.98%     0.66      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 1457.49
MPS                 95.41
MP2min              11449.42
MRPS                75.41
Out of mana time    3.81%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 5.47s
simulation speed: 658375x
EP values:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      1457.94
ap                        1.00      0.30      1517.42        59.48
crit rating               0.75      0.22      1464.64        6.70
hit rating                2.21      0.66      1477.63        19.70
expertise rating          1.28      0.38      1470.38        12.45
haste rating              0.94      0.28      1466.29        8.35
armor penetration rating  0.60      0.18      1463.28        5.34
spellpower                1.04      0.31      1504.34        46.40
mh dps                    4.91      1.46      1468.89        10.95
oh dps                    1.87      0.56      1462.12        4.18
strength                  1.00      
agility                   1.27      
intelligence              1.52      
spirit                    0.04      0.01      1459.75        1.81
mana                      0.03      0.01      1460.17        2.23
mp5                       1.21      0.36      1465.11        7.18
#1148SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ foolish_fool
Originally Posted by Shammando View Post
lava burst          347.05    23.81%    5.50      35.99     37.72%
This is likely your problem.
#1149SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shammando
Yes, it would appear that is definitely wrong, but Lava burst (LVB) is not in my rotation priority at all. I must be missing something, because I'm not sure why it's simulating that.

Edit: On that note, why is Flameshock in there too as more than ES, it shouldn't be in there at all either.
#1150SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Tramana
Originally Posted by Paenor View Post
Now I could upload a WWS for you guys if you really want, however I'm not sure how much it would prove to you. I started the instance without maxed dagger weapon skill (about 370), and it didn't get maxed out until after all of Plague wing, and Anub/Grand Widow. Additionally, it was only Spider/Plague wings and KT, and as I don't have a good data set from a previous week to compare it to. Furthermore, I didn't use consumables, and for all you know I might do 5600dps on Loatheb and 3500dps on Grand Window with my 10man gear normally. So really, I urge other people who actually have better gear than I to actually try it yourself and post your data.
I've been experimenting with ft/ft for the past couple weeks after I found out that ft/ft with a fast offhand was a dps increase over what I had earlier.

I also added [Thunder Capacitor] to enhsim so that it would be taken into account when getting my stat weights.

On a related note, I noticed that flametongue doesn't proc 100% of the time when using ft/ft it's more like 80% of the time. When I used different ranks of FT on each weapon the proc rate went back to 100%. Try testing this out on the target dummy yourself to see if you see the same thing.
Using recount to count, and a 1.8/1.4 ft/ft I hit the level 60 target dummy 100 times wiith my daggers. Flametongue Attack hit 80 times. When I switch to ft(rank 9)/ft(rank 10) I got 100 hits with my dagger and 100 hits with Flametongue. I'm pretty sure enhsim doesn't model this behavior.
Since my ep weights push me towards spell power, haste, and crit more than the conventional gearing I wonder where I will end up when I have everything best in slot. I wonder how my best in slot gearing will compare to a more conventional best in slot gearing. This would be another case where a working rawr module for exporting to the sim would be invaluable.

Last edited by Tramana : 01/07/09 at 3:00 AM.
#1151SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paenor
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
On a related note, I noticed that flametongue doesn't proc 100% of the time when using ft/ft it's more like 80% of the time. When I used different ranks of FT on each weapon the proc rate went back to 100%. Try testing this out on the target dummy yourself to see if you see the same thing.
I don't have this issue. Interestingly, looking back at my WWS I actually have quite a few more flametongue attacks than I do melee hits. This can be attributed to Stormstrike and Lava Lash.

I suspect the reason why you aren't getting as many on the target dummy is because you aren't spell capped without raid buffs. It's possible to have a melee hit, but the flametongue miss. You can easily see this if you lose your shadow priest (and/or moonkin) part way through a raid.
#1152SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Paenor View Post
I don't have this issue. Interestingly, looking back at my WWS I actually have quite a few more flametongue attacks than I do melee hits. This can be attributed to Stormstrike and Lava Lash.

I suspect the reason why you aren't getting as many on the target dummy is because you aren't spell capped without raid buffs. It's possible to have a melee hit, but the flametongue miss. You can easily see this if you lose your shadow priest (and/or moonkin) part way through a raid.
It's interesting that you aren't seeing this.

The missing procs were not due to spell miss. Recount showed 0 misses for flametongue weapon, I was hitting a level 60 training dummy with 14% spell hit, and I saw different results when changing the rank of the main hand flametongue.
#1153SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
It's interesting that you aren't seeing this.

The missing procs were not due to spell miss. Recount showed 0 misses for flametongue weapon, I was hitting a level 60 training dummy with 14% spell hit, and I saw different results when changing the rank of the main hand flametongue.
Most probably there is a short cooldown on FT. Paenor used two weapons with a big difference in speed in his test (1.8/2.5), while you use weapons with a more closer speed (1.8/1.4).
#1154SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paenor
Actually tonight I managed to grab a Webbed Death, so my combat dummy (and the WWS I referred to in my last post) tests were actually done with that.

Since that post I have done more testing on the dummies, and i'm get some strange results as well.

First and foremost. Make sure you are reading Recount correctly. It displays the current amount of swings, which includes dodges/misses/parries. So the number will be inflated by default. However, Recount is also giving me different numbers that looking directly at the combat log does. Nearly always for the worse.

Even keeping that in mind, most (but not all) of the tests that I did do have missing flametongue procs. Just by watching your scrolling damage text you can see it behaving strangely. Sometimes you will get 5 procs in a row after one hit, sometimes none.

Even stranger still, looking back at my combat logs from Naxx earlier today many fights not only did I have more flametongue hits than melee attacks, but I had many more than all physical hits combined. Additionally, I never once had less flametongue hits than melee. So it appears that it can actually work both ways.

At this point, i'm not sure what to say, other than I'm tired and I'll look into it more later. I need more raid data at this point to make a call. It's hard to say right now if it's some strange target dummy thing, or possibly a lag issue.
#1155SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by SentinelBorg View Post
Most probably there is a short cooldown on FT. Paenor used two weapons with a big difference in speed in his test (1.8/2.5), while you use weapons with a more closer speed (1.8/1.4).
I think this is right. To help test this idea, I got two weapons with matched speed. When I run with 2.6/2.6 and start with them out of phase (each weapon hits about 1 second apart) I got 100 ft out of 100 melee hits. When I started with the weapons in phase (each weapon hits at the same time) I got 54 ft out of 101 melee hits.

It would seem that using different ranks gets around the short FT cooldown. This is the way windfury behaved when they first introduced the cooldown if I remember correctly.
#1156SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Building EnhSim is currently broken using GCC on linux. Lines starting with "enh::eout << enh::setw(26)" triggers an error:
enhsimconfig.cpp:337: error: no match for 'operator<<' in 'enh::eout << enh::setw(26)'
enhsimoutput.h:37: note: candidates are: enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(bool)
enhsimoutput.h:38: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(short int)
enhsimoutput.h:39: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(short unsigned int)
enhsimoutput.h:40: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(int)
enhsimoutput.h:41: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(unsigned int)
enhsimoutput.h:42: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(long int)
enhsimoutput.h:43: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(long unsigned int)
enhsimoutput.h:44: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(float)
enhsimoutput.h:45: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(double)
enhsimoutput.h:46: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(long double)
enhsimoutput.h:47: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(void*)
enhsimoutput.h:49: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::string&)
enhsimoutput.h:50: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(const std::string&)
enhsimoutput.h:51: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::streambuf*)
enhsimoutput.h:52: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::ostream& (*)(std::ostream&))
enhsimoutput.h:53: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::ios& (*)(std::ios&))
enhsimoutput.h:54: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(std::ios_base& (*)(std::ios_base&))
enhsimoutput.h:56: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(enh::setprecision&)
enhsimoutput.h:57: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(enh::setw&)
enhsimoutput.h:59: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(char)
enhsimoutput.h:60: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(signed char)
enhsimoutput.h:61: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(unsigned char)
enhsimoutput.h:62: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(const char*)
enhsimoutput.h:63: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(const signed char*)
enhsimoutput.h:64: note:                 enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<<(const unsigned char*)
I've noticed "enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<< (setw& p)" in enhsimoutput.cpp, but I don't really know C++ enough to correct it. I guess all << enh::setw() or enh::setprecision() fail, but GCC will only show the first error in the line.
#1157SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jonnaei
Problems Running the GUI

Sorry if this problem seems amateurish, but I'm quite unversed in programming language and code. Here's my problem:

I download the latest enhsim rar file and unzip it and go to run enhsimgui and I get an error message that says


"Unable to Locate Component
This application has failed to start because MSCOREE.DLL was not found. Re-installing this application may fix this problem"


Maybe I'm missing something obvious here (that is what I'm hoping in posting this), but this tells me nothing of use. Does anyone have any suggestions on this?
#1158SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Caladiera
I was wondering what is the most efficient way to sim multiple items?

Are people using chardev.org, rawr or manually calculating stats to put into EnhSim?

Or am I missing something fundamental?
#1159SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Caladiera View Post
I was wondering what is the most efficient way to sim multiple items?

Are people using chardev.org, rawr or manually calculating stats to put into EnhSim?

Or am I missing something fundamental?
To answer your's and Rounced question on Rawr, over the holiday's I wrote a java app that takes your Rawr exports and creates a EnhSim config similar to what ShockAndAwe does - idea being that the data in each would be identical so the cut n' paste was exactly the same. The problem is that whilst it works there is a vast amount of info that is missing from the Rawr export. The saved character file xml is decent but only has item id's and so can't be used directly to support export to the sim, a cross reference database would need to be maintained to convert item ids into sim config text. This could be overcome if Tukez was willing to modify the sim config to allow things like

trinket1             40256
trinket2             40684
as an option ie: not replacing the existing

trinket1             grim_toll
trinket2             mirror_of_truth
but as a valid config option to use the item ids instead of user readable names. Incidentally this would make ShockAndAwe export more robust too as SAA could simply export the item ids and avoid current issues with being out of sync when new sim version is released. If the sim supported the item id then the Rawr export and the ShockAndAwe export would both work with whichever version of EnhSim was current.

There are other annoyances, the Cut n' paste option in Rawr contains the base stats (STR, STA, AGI etc) but the XML doesn't. If we could convince the Rawr people to include that in the XML then it would be simply a case of use Rawr, save your char and import XML into sim using my Java app.
#1160SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by jonnaei View Post
"Unable to Locate Component
This application has failed to start because MSCOREE.DLL was not found. Re-installing this application may fix this problem"


Maybe I'm missing something obvious here (that is what I'm hoping in posting this), but this tells me nothing of use. Does anyone have any suggestions on this?
Install .NET framework.

About the crit reduction. I glanced trough the threads, but I couldn't find any conclusive results. To make sure I do it right, I would like the info on the following. (My assumptions are in parenthesis)
  • white hit system? 1roll / 2roll? (1roll)
  • white crit reduction? (4.8%)
  • yellow hit system? (2roll)
  • yellow crit reduction? (0%??)
  • spell hit system? (2roll)
  • spell crit reduction? (3%??)

And melee miss chance is 8%/27% based on this thread Is melee hit cap really 9%? .

Raut, next version source should compile fine with the guide from the home page. I also included boost library in the source so it is no longer necessary to setup boost separately. I ripped uneccessary files out to make it smaller in size, so I'm not exactly sure does it work with other platforms other than Windows. I might have ripped off necessary files on other platforms..will see that when I release the next version.

Levva, good idea with the item IDs. I'll implement it when I have time.
#1161SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
White should be 1 roll, yellow should be 2 roll as you have assumed.
#1162SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Levva, good idea with the item IDs. I'll implement it when I have time.
Did you also notice the request to add ES_SS to priority list. I've implemented this in ShockAndAwe 3.90 basically it will prioritise ES if there is still a SS debuff on the target. This should give a slight dps boost as you can use ES that bit earlier in the priority as fairly frequently the SS charges haven't all been consumed. It would be interesting to see if this was borne out in the sim.

I therefore changed ShockAndAwe defaults to MW5_LB, ES_SS, SS, ES, LL.
#1163SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Glayde
So atm the sim overrates ft/ft? (Due to giving 1:1 procs/hit on both hands or by assuming top rank on both hands)
#1164SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Gadoh
I seem to be having a problem with my ep calculations in the enhsim. Im using the lvl80 config file, but when I run it at home i am getting messages saying im over the hit and expertise cap by some amount, but im clearly not expertise capped or hit capped yet.

Does anyone know if Ive configured something wrong? Here is my config file for reference.

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS
rotation_priority7		ST

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          143.6
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         24.40
oh_crit                         24.40
mh_hit                          9.24
oh_hit                          9.24
mh_expertise_rating             196
oh_expertise_rating             196
ap                              3173
haste                           4.88
armor_penetration               0
str                             133
agi                             616
int                             473
spi                             153
spellpower                      951
spell_crit                      19.12
spell_hit                       11.55
max_mana                        11211
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        -
trinket2                        fury_of_the_five_flights

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lava_lash

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
#1165SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
wiggie
You have your Expertise EP range at 4, that converts into 32.78998947 expertise rating, taking you well over the cap. Try chaning the EP range to something smaller, like 1.

Edit: Also, why are you using old TBC consumables?

Edit2: I noticed your Spellpower is below 1k, have I been doing things wrong and inputting my spellpower with Flametongue imbued? If yes, I might have just screwed up all my sims

Last edited by wiggie : 01/08/09 at 1:10 PM.
#1166SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Gadoh
Ah thats because I had to reproduce my config file since im at work and I didnt notice the consumables. And I didnt use the spellpower added from FT because of the sim asking you for the imbue, and I didnt want it added twice. But I may be wrong about that.

I thought I read a post in this thread about that issue.
#1167SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by wiggie View Post
You have your Expertise EP range at 4, that converts into 32.78998947 expertise rating, taking you well over the cap. Try chaning the EP range to something smaller, like 1.

Edit: Also, why are you using old TBC consumables?

Edit2: I noticed your Spellpower is below 1k, have I been doing things wrong and inputting my spellpower with Flametongue imbued? If yes, I might have just screwed up all my sims
If you make the EP value that low you introduce a lot of potential error into the calculation. The simpler method is to just make it a negative value so that the sim is removing that much Exp when comparing instead of adding and see what values you get that way.

You should be running the sim with your paperdoll stats with no imbues active and no buffs whatsoever.

Who cares what kinds of consumables he is using? I have a bunch of relentless flasks that I break out for raiding sometimes and run sims with occassionally. What does it matter?


Finally, if you aren't sure about how the Sim functions in the first place, why are you trying to answer other people's concerns?

Last edited by Rouncer : 01/08/09 at 2:44 PM.
#1168SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3wiggie
I actually realised on the way home from work that using negatives would probably be a better idea, I hadn't gone through the config file thoroughly enough.
I had been using 1 as the Expertise EP range because upon skimming through this thread, I noticed other people using it. The config file does after all say "Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time", I just didn't know how low was "low". Sorry Gadoh.
#1169SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ankasunamore
Ok, I can't for the life of me get the sim to work. I feel really stupid for not see what is probably a obvious error on my part, but I've never been good with computer programs. When I've open the enhsim.exe it just comes back to me with: 'No config file specified. Pass the config file as parameter to this program'.

I'm sorry for the stupid question, but i really want to better myself and have back up for when the rogues complain about my dkp spending.
#1170SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3BW~Merlin
If you are using windows use enhsimgui.exe other wise you need to run enhsim.exe through a command line interface and specify the config file that contains your settings (something like enhsim.exe myconfigfile.txt). Visit the enhsim website for more info about running enhsim through command line.
#1171SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rhalis
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Building EnhSim is currently broken using GCC on linux.
The issue is the same as that of compiling on OSX. The author posted the bits of text that needed to be replaced in order to make it compile a few pages back. Though, even after replacing it, there still seemed to be an issue on linux, that I didn't have on OSX.

Long story short, here's the diff for the patch:
diff -drc source/effects.cpp source_patched/effects.cpp
*** source/effects.cpp	2008-12-04 04:58:21.000000000 -0800
--- source_patched/effects.cpp	2008-12-31 13:53:51.000000000 -0800
***************
*** 9,15 ****
  
  void SimulationProgress::event(const int& event_id) {
    ++reported_count_;
!   enh::eout << ".";
  
    sim.addLowPrioEvent(interval_, this);
  }
--- 9,15 ----
  
  void SimulationProgress::event(const int& event_id) {
    ++reported_count_;
!   std::cout << ".";
  
    sim.addLowPrioEvent(interval_, this);
  }
diff -drc source/enhsimconfig.cpp source_patched/enhsimconfig.cpp
*** source/enhsimconfig.cpp	2008-12-08 11:09:25.000000000 -0800
--- source_patched/enhsimconfig.cpp	2008-12-31 13:53:51.000000000 -0800
***************
*** 249,255 ****
      }
      skip = false;
      std::getline(msg, message);
!     enh::eout << message << std::endl;
    }
  }
  
--- 249,255 ----
      }
      skip = false;
      std::getline(msg, message);
!     std::cout << message << std::endl;
    }
  }
  
***************
*** 333,371 ****
    bool valuemissing = false;
    std::string vmissing = "";
  
!   enh::eout << "\n\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "EP" << enh::setw(10) << "value" << enh::setw(10) << "DPS" << enh::setw(15) << "total DPS" << "difference\n\n" << std::fixed << enh::setprecision(ep_precision_);
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(46) << "baseline" << statsv_[0].getTotalDamage() / (hours_ * 3600) << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "ap" << enh::setw(10) << ep_ap << enh::setw(10) << ap_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[1].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[1].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "crit rating" << enh::setw(10) << ep_crit << enh::setw(10) << critp_dps + crits_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[2].getTotalDPS() + statsv_[3].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[2].getTotalDPS() + statsv_[3].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() * 2 << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "hit rating" << enh::setw(10) << ep_hit << enh::setw(10) << hit_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[4].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[4].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "expertise rating" << enh::setw(10) << ep_expertise << enh::setw(10) << expertise_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[5].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[5].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "haste rating" << enh::setw(10) << ep_haste << enh::setw(10) << haste_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[6].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[6].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "armor penetration rating" << enh::setw(10) << ep_armorp << enh::setw(10) << armor_ignore_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[7].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[7].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "spellpower" << enh::setw(10) << ep_spellpower << enh::setw(10) << spellpower_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[8].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[8].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "mh dps" << enh::setw(10) << ep_mhdps << enh::setw(10) << mh_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[9].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[9].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "oh dps" << enh::setw(10) << ep_ohdps << enh::setw(10) << oh_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[10].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[10].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
    vmissing = ""; if (ep_ap_ == 0) { vmissing = "*"; valuemissing = true; }
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "strength" + vmissing << enh::setw(10) << ep_strength << std::endl;
    vmissing = ""; if (ep_ap_ == 0 || ep_crit_rating_ == 0) { vmissing = "*"; valuemissing = true; }
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "agility" + vmissing << enh::setw(10) << ep_agility << std::endl;
    vmissing = ""; if (ep_ap_ == 0 || ep_crit_rating_ == 0 || ep_spirit_ == 0 || ep_mp5_ == 0 || ep_mana_ == 0) { vmissing = "*"; valuemissing = true; }
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "intelligence" + vmissing << enh::setw(10) << ep_intelligence << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "spirit" << enh::setw(10) << ep_spirit << enh::setw(10) << spirit_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[12].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[12].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "mana" << enh::setw(10) << ep_mana << enh::setw(10) << mana_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[11].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[11].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(26) << std::left << "mp5" << enh::setw(10) << ep_mp5 << enh::setw(10) << mp5_dps << enh::setw(15) << statsv_[13].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[13].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
  
    if (valuemissing) {
!     enh::eout << "\n* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.";
    }
!   enh::eout << std::endl;
  
  
    std::ifstream is("enhsim_ep_exports.txt");
    std::vector<std::string> lines;
  
    if (is.fail()) {
!     enh::eout << "Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt";
    }
    else {
  
--- 333,371 ----
    bool valuemissing = false;
    std::string vmissing = "";
  
!   std::cout << "\n\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "EP" << std::setw(10) << "value" << std::setw(10) << "DPS" << std::setw(15) << "total DPS" << "difference\n\n" << std::fixed << std::setprecision(ep_precision_);
!   std::cout << std::setw(46) << "baseline" << statsv_[0].getTotalDamage() / (hours_ * 3600) << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "ap" << std::setw(10) << ep_ap << std::setw(10) << ap_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[1].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[1].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "crit rating" << std::setw(10) << ep_crit << std::setw(10) << critp_dps + crits_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[2].getTotalDPS() + statsv_[3].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[2].getTotalDPS() + statsv_[3].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() * 2 << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "hit rating" << std::setw(10) << ep_hit << std::setw(10) << hit_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[4].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[4].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "expertise rating" << std::setw(10) << ep_expertise << std::setw(10) << expertise_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[5].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[5].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "haste rating" << std::setw(10) << ep_haste << std::setw(10) << haste_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[6].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[6].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "armor penetration rating" << std::setw(10) << ep_armorp << std::setw(10) << armor_ignore_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[7].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[7].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "spellpower" << std::setw(10) << ep_spellpower << std::setw(10) << spellpower_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[8].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[8].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "mh dps" << std::setw(10) << ep_mhdps << std::setw(10) << mh_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[9].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[9].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "oh dps" << std::setw(10) << ep_ohdps << std::setw(10) << oh_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[10].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[10].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
    vmissing = ""; if (ep_ap_ == 0) { vmissing = "*"; valuemissing = true; }
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "strength" + vmissing << std::setw(10) << ep_strength << std::endl;
    vmissing = ""; if (ep_ap_ == 0 || ep_crit_rating_ == 0) { vmissing = "*"; valuemissing = true; }
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "agility" + vmissing << std::setw(10) << ep_agility << std::endl;
    vmissing = ""; if (ep_ap_ == 0 || ep_crit_rating_ == 0 || ep_spirit_ == 0 || ep_mp5_ == 0 || ep_mana_ == 0) { vmissing = "*"; valuemissing = true; }
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "intelligence" + vmissing << std::setw(10) << ep_intelligence << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "spirit" << std::setw(10) << ep_spirit << std::setw(10) << spirit_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[12].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[12].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "mana" << std::setw(10) << ep_mana << std::setw(10) << mana_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[11].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[11].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(26) << std::left << "mp5" << std::setw(10) << ep_mp5 << std::setw(10) << mp5_dps << std::setw(15) << statsv_[13].getTotalDPS() << statsv_[13].getTotalDPS() - statsv_[0].getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
  
    if (valuemissing) {
!     std::cout << "\n* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.";
    }
!   std::cout << std::endl;
  
  
    std::ifstream is("enhsim_ep_exports.txt");
    std::vector<std::string> lines;
  
    if (is.fail()) {
!     std::cout << "Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt";
    }
    else {
  
***************
*** 402,411 ****
      searchAndReplace(lines[i], "$mana", doubleToString(ep_mana, ep_precision_));
      searchAndReplace(lines[i], "$mp5", doubleToString(ep_mp5, ep_precision_));
  
!     enh::eout << lines[i] << std::endl;
    }
  
!   enh::eout << std::endl;
  }
  
  EnhSimConfig::EnhSimConfig()
--- 402,411 ----
      searchAndReplace(lines[i], "$mana", doubleToString(ep_mana, ep_precision_));
      searchAndReplace(lines[i], "$mp5", doubleToString(ep_mp5, ep_precision_));
  
!     std::cout << lines[i] << std::endl;
    }
  
!   std::cout << std::endl;
  }
  
  EnhSimConfig::EnhSimConfig()
***************
*** 966,972 ****
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         enh::eout << "Imbue " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
--- 966,972 ----
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         std::cout << "Imbue " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
***************
*** 1003,1009 ****
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         enh::eout << "Imbue " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
--- 1003,1009 ----
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         std::cout << "Imbue " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
***************
*** 1048,1054 ****
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         enh::eout << "Enchant " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
--- 1048,1054 ----
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         std::cout << "Enchant " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
***************
*** 1093,1099 ****
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         enh::eout << "Enchant " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
--- 1093,1099 ----
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         std::cout << "Enchant " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
***************
*** 1293,1299 ****
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         enh::eout << "Trinket " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
--- 1293,1299 ----
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         std::cout << "Trinket " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
***************
*** 1380,1386 ****
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         enh::eout << "Totem " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
--- 1380,1386 ----
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         std::cout << "Totem " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
***************
*** 1457,1463 ****
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         enh::eout << "Set bonus " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
--- 1457,1463 ----
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         std::cout << "Set bonus " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
***************
*** 1506,1512 ****
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         enh::eout << "Metagem " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
--- 1506,1512 ----
      }
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!         std::cout << "Metagem " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
***************
*** 1946,1952 ****
  
    else {
      if (name != "-") {
!       enh::eout << "Consumable " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
      }
    }
  }
--- 1946,1952 ----
  
    else {
      if (name != "-") {
!       std::cout << "Consumable " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
      }
    }
  }
***************
*** 1972,1978 ****
  
    else {
      if (name != "-") {
!       enh::eout << "Misc item " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
      }
    }
  }
--- 1972,1978 ----
  
    else {
      if (name != "-") {
!       std::cout << "Misc item " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
      }
    }
  }
***************
*** 2036,2042 ****
  
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!           enh::eout << "Glyph " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
--- 2036,2042 ----
  
      else {
        if (once && name != "-") {
!           std::cout << "Glyph " << name << " not found." << std::endl;
        }
      }
  
***************
*** 2198,2214 ****
        ep_hit_rating_ >= 0) {
  
      ep_hit_rating_ = 0;
!     enh::eout << "Hit is past caps, EP hit test will be skipped." << std::endl;
    }
    else {
      if (mhhit > miss) {
!       enh::eout << "Mh hit + EP range goes past cap by " << (mhhit - miss)/100 << "% (" << (mhhit - miss) / HIT_RATING_TO_HIT << " hit rating)." << std::endl;
      }
      if (ohhit > miss) {
!       enh::eout << "Oh hit + EP range goes past cap by " << (ohhit - miss)/100 << "% (" << (ohhit - miss) / HIT_RATING_TO_HIT << " hit rating)." << std::endl;
      }
      if (spellhit > spell_miss_) {
!       enh::eout << "Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by " << (spellhit - spell_miss_)/100 << "% (" << (spellhit - spell_miss_) / HIT_RATING_TO_SPELLHIT << " hit rating)." << std::endl;
      }
    }
    if (mh_expertise_rating_ >= expcap &&
--- 2198,2214 ----
        ep_hit_rating_ >= 0) {
  
      ep_hit_rating_ = 0;
!     std::cout << "Hit is past caps, EP hit test will be skipped." << std::endl;
    }
    else {
      if (mhhit > miss) {
!       std::cout << "Mh hit + EP range goes past cap by " << (mhhit - miss)/100 << "% (" << (mhhit - miss) / HIT_RATING_TO_HIT << " hit rating)." << std::endl;
      }
      if (ohhit > miss) {
!       std::cout << "Oh hit + EP range goes past cap by " << (ohhit - miss)/100 << "% (" << (ohhit - miss) / HIT_RATING_TO_HIT << " hit rating)." << std::endl;
      }
      if (spellhit > spell_miss_) {
!       std::cout << "Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by " << (spellhit - spell_miss_)/100 << "% (" << (spellhit - spell_miss_) / HIT_RATING_TO_SPELLHIT << " hit rating)." << std::endl;
      }
    }
    if (mh_expertise_rating_ >= expcap &&
***************
*** 2216,2236 ****
        ep_expertise_rating_ >= 0) {
  
      ep_expertise_rating_ = 0;
!     enh::eout << "Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped." << std::endl;
    }
    else {
      if (mhexp > expcap) {
!       enh::eout << "Mh expertise + EP range goes past cap by " << (mhexp - expcap) / EXPERTISE_RATING_TO_EXPERTISE << " expertise (" << mhexp - expcap << " expertise rating)." << std::endl;
      }
      if (ohexp > expcap) {
!       enh::eout << "Oh expertise + EP range goes past cap by " << (ohexp - expcap) / EXPERTISE_RATING_TO_EXPERTISE << " expertise (" << ohexp - expcap << " expertise rating)." << std::endl;
      }
    }
!   enh::eout << std::endl;
  
    
  
!   enh::eout << "Calculating EP values...\n";
  
  #ifndef NOTHREADS
    for (unsigned int i=0; i<threads_; ++i) {
--- 2216,2236 ----
        ep_expertise_rating_ >= 0) {
  
      ep_expertise_rating_ = 0;
!     std::cout << "Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped." << std::endl;
    }
    else {
      if (mhexp > expcap) {
!       std::cout << "Mh expertise + EP range goes past cap by " << (mhexp - expcap) / EXPERTISE_RATING_TO_EXPERTISE << " expertise (" << mhexp - expcap << " expertise rating)." << std::endl;
      }
      if (ohexp > expcap) {
!       std::cout << "Oh expertise + EP range goes past cap by " << (ohexp - expcap) / EXPERTISE_RATING_TO_EXPERTISE << " expertise (" << ohexp - expcap << " expertise rating)." << std::endl;
      }
    }
!   std::cout << std::endl;
  
    
  
!   std::cout << "Calculating EP values...\n";
  
  #ifndef NOTHREADS
    for (unsigned int i=0; i<threads_; ++i) {
diff -drc source/enhsimconfig.h source_patched/enhsimconfig.h
*** source/enhsimconfig.h	2008-12-08 11:08:46.000000000 -0800
--- source_patched/enhsimconfig.h	2008-12-31 13:53:51.000000000 -0800
***************
*** 157,163 ****
      /*void setPhysicalCritBonus(const f32& crit_bonus) { physical_crit_multiplier_ *= 1.0f + crit_bonus / 100; };
      void setSpellCritBonus(const f32& crit_bonus) { spell_crit_multiplier_ *= 1.0f + crit_bonus / 100; };*/
  
!     /*void enh::setwindfuryAp(const int& wf_ap) { for (unsigned int i=0; i<enhsims_.size(); ++i) {
                                              enhsims_[i]->mh_windfury_->bonus_ap_ += wf_ap;
                                              enhsims_[i]->oh_windfury_->bonus_ap_ += wf_ap; }};*/
  
--- 157,163 ----
      /*void setPhysicalCritBonus(const f32& crit_bonus) { physical_crit_multiplier_ *= 1.0f + crit_bonus / 100; };
      void setSpellCritBonus(const f32& crit_bonus) { spell_crit_multiplier_ *= 1.0f + crit_bonus / 100; };*/
  
!     /*void std::setwindfuryAp(const int& wf_ap) { for (unsigned int i=0; i<enhsims_.size(); ++i) {
                                              enhsims_[i]->mh_windfury_->bonus_ap_ += wf_ap;
                                              enhsims_[i]->oh_windfury_->bonus_ap_ += wf_ap; }};*/
  
diff -drc source/enhsimoutput.cpp source_patched/enhsimoutput.cpp
*** source/enhsimoutput.cpp	2008-12-04 14:08:40.000000000 -0800
--- source_patched/enhsimoutput.cpp	2008-12-31 13:53:57.000000000 -0800
***************
*** 165,171 ****
    return *this;
  }
  
! enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<< (enh::setprecision& p) {
    std::cout << std::setprecision(p.i_);
    if (logset_) {
      log_ << std::setprecision(p.i_);
--- 165,171 ----
    return *this;
  }
  
! enh::EnhSimOutput& enh::EnhSimOutput::operator<< (enh::setprecision&   p) {
    std::cout << std::setprecision(p.i_);
    if (logset_) {
      log_ << std::setprecision(p.i_);
diff -drc source/globalutil.cpp source_patched/globalutil.cpp
*** source/globalutil.cpp	2008-12-06 14:08:59.000000000 -0800
--- source_patched/globalutil.cpp	2008-12-31 13:53:51.000000000 -0800
***************
*** 16,22 ****
  void setupCombatLog(std::string filename) {
    combatlog.open(filename.c_str(), std::ios::out);
    if (combatlog.fail()) {
!     enh::eout << "Could not open " << filename << " for combatlog." << std::endl;
    }
  }
  
--- 16,22 ----
  void setupCombatLog(std::string filename) {
    combatlog.open(filename.c_str(), std::ios::out);
    if (combatlog.fail()) {
!     std::cout << "Could not open " << filename << " for combatlog." << std::endl;
    }
  }
  
diff -drc source/main.cpp source_patched/main.cpp
*** source/main.cpp	2008-12-08 11:02:20.000000000 -0800
--- source_patched/main.cpp	2008-12-31 13:53:51.000000000 -0800
***************
*** 16,22 ****
  int getConfigInt(const std::string& key) {
    std::string value = config[key];
    if (value.empty()) {
!     enh::eout << key << " not found from config.\n";
    }
  
    return stringToInt(value);
--- 16,22 ----
  int getConfigInt(const std::string& key) {
    std::string value = config[key];
    if (value.empty()) {
!     std::cout << key << " not found from config.\n";
    }
  
    return stringToInt(value);
***************
*** 25,31 ****
  f32 getConfigFloat(const std::string& key) {
    std::string value = config[key];
    if (value.empty()) {
!     enh::eout << key << " not found from config.\n";
    }
  
    return stringToFloat(value);
--- 25,31 ----
  f32 getConfigFloat(const std::string& key) {
    std::string value = config[key];
    if (value.empty()) {
!     std::cout << key << " not found from config.\n";
    }
  
    return stringToFloat(value);
***************
*** 34,40 ****
  int getConfigTalent(const std::string& key) {
    std::string value = config[key];
    if (value.empty()) {
!     enh::eout << key << " not found from config.\n";
    }
  
    return stringToInt(value.substr(0,value.length()-2));
--- 34,40 ----
  int getConfigTalent(const std::string& key) {
    std::string value = config[key];
    if (value.empty()) {
!     std::cout << key << " not found from config.\n";
    }
  
    return stringToInt(value.substr(0,value.length()-2));
***************
*** 43,49 ****
  float getConfigBuff(const std::string& key) {
    std::string value = config[key];
    if (value.empty()) {
!     enh::eout << key << " not found from config.\n";
    }
  
    return stringToFloat(value.substr(0,value.find_first_of("/")));
--- 43,49 ----
  float getConfigBuff(const std::string& key) {
    std::string value = config[key];
    if (value.empty()) {
!     std::cout << key << " not found from config.\n";
    }
  
    return stringToFloat(value.substr(0,value.find_first_of("/")));
***************
*** 65,71 ****
    }
  
    if (argc == 1) {
!     enh::eout << "No config file specified. Pass the config file as parameter to this program.";
      std::cin.get();
  
      return 1;
--- 65,71 ----
    }
  
    if (argc == 1) {
!     std::cout << "No config file specified. Pass the config file as parameter to this program.";
      std::cin.get();
  
      return 1;
***************
*** 73,79 ****
  
    std::ifstream is(argv[1]);
    if (is.fail()) {
!     enh::eout << "Could not open config file " << argv[1];
      std::cin.get();
      return 1;
    }
--- 73,79 ----
  
    std::ifstream is(argv[1]);
    if (is.fail()) {
!     std::cout << "Could not open config file " << argv[1];
      std::cin.get();
      return 1;
    }
***************
*** 314,322 ****
      closeCombatLog();
  #endif
  
!   enh::eout << "elapsed simulation time: " << hours << "h\n";
!   enh::eout << "elapsed real time: " << (f32)(end-start) / CLOCKS_PER_SEC << "s\n";
!   enh::eout << "simulation speed: " << static_cast<int>(hours*3600 / ((f32)(end-start) / CLOCKS_PER_SEC)) << "x" << std::endl;
  
    std::cin.get();
  
--- 314,322 ----
      closeCombatLog();
  #endif
  
!   std::cout << "elapsed simulation time: " << hours << "h\n";
!   std::cout << "elapsed real time: " << (f32)(end-start) / CLOCKS_PER_SEC << "s\n";
!   std::cout << "simulation speed: " << static_cast<int>(hours*3600 / ((f32)(end-start) / CLOCKS_PER_SEC)) << "x" << std::endl;
  
    std::cin.get();
  
diff -drc source/skills.cpp source_patched/skills.cpp
*** source/skills.cpp	2008-10-26 19:36:33.000000000 -0700
--- source_patched/skills.cpp	2009-01-07 17:12:12.000000000 -0800
***************
*** 491,497 ****
    sim.global_cooldown_->cd_ = true;
    sim.addLowPrioEvent(sim.spell_gcd_duration_, sim.global_cooldown_, 0, sim.randomLag());
  
!   int64 casttime = floor(casting_time_ / sim.spell_haste_divider_ * (1.0 - (0.2 * sim.maelstrom_weapon_->stack_)));
    sim.spell_casting_->startCasting(this, casttime, !(sim.maelstrom_weapon_->stack_ > 0));
  
    return true;
--- 491,498 ----
    sim.global_cooldown_->cd_ = true;
    sim.addLowPrioEvent(sim.spell_gcd_duration_, sim.global_cooldown_, 0, sim.randomLag());
  
!   int64 casttime = floor(casting_time_ / sim.spell_haste_divider_ * 0.2 * (5.0 - sim.maelstrom_weapon_->stack_));
! 
    sim.spell_casting_->startCasting(this, casttime, !(sim.maelstrom_weapon_->stack_ > 0));
  
    return true;
diff -drc source/stats.cpp source_patched/stats.cpp
*** source/stats.cpp	2008-12-04 14:04:37.000000000 -0800
--- source_patched/stats.cpp	2008-12-31 13:53:51.000000000 -0800
***************
*** 184,196 ****
  }
  
  void Statistics::print() {
!   enh::eout << std::endl << std::fixed << enh::setprecision(2);
  
    double dmg = getTotalDamage();
  
    double mhhits = mh_crit_ + mh_dodge_ + mh_glancing_ + mh_hit_ + mh_miss_;
    if (mhhits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nMH:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", mh_miss_, mhhits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", mh_dodge_, mhhits);
      printValueAndPercent("glancing", mh_glancing_, mhhits);
--- 184,196 ----
  }
  
  void Statistics::print() {
!   std::cout << std::endl << std::fixed << std::setprecision(2);
  
    double dmg = getTotalDamage();
  
    double mhhits = mh_crit_ + mh_dodge_ + mh_glancing_ + mh_hit_ + mh_miss_;
    if (mhhits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nMH:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", mh_miss_, mhhits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", mh_dodge_, mhhits);
      printValueAndPercent("glancing", mh_glancing_, mhhits);
***************
*** 201,209 ****
    double mhsshits = mh_ss_crit_ + mh_ss_dodge_ + mh_ss_hit_ + mh_ss_miss_;
    double mhwfhits = mh_wf_crit_ + mh_wf_dodge_ + mh_wf_hit_ + mh_wf_miss_;
    if (mhwfhits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nMH Windfury:\n";
!     enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "procs/hits" << mhwfhits / 2 / (mhhits - mh_miss_ - mh_dodge_ + mhsshits - mh_ss_miss_ - mh_ss_dodge_) * 100 << "%" << std::endl;
!     enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "procs/swings" << mhwfhits / 2 / (mhhits + mhsshits) * 100 << "%" << std::endl;
      printValueAndPercent("miss", mh_wf_miss_, mhwfhits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", mh_wf_dodge_, mhwfhits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", mh_wf_hit_, mhwfhits);
--- 201,209 ----
    double mhsshits = mh_ss_crit_ + mh_ss_dodge_ + mh_ss_hit_ + mh_ss_miss_;
    double mhwfhits = mh_wf_crit_ + mh_wf_dodge_ + mh_wf_hit_ + mh_wf_miss_;
    if (mhwfhits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nMH Windfury:\n";
!     std::cout << std::setw(20) << "procs/hits" << mhwfhits / 2 / (mhhits - mh_miss_ - mh_dodge_ + mhsshits - mh_ss_miss_ - mh_ss_dodge_) * 100 << "%" << std::endl;
!     std::cout << std::setw(20) << "procs/swings" << mhwfhits / 2 / (mhhits + mhsshits) * 100 << "%" << std::endl;
      printValueAndPercent("miss", mh_wf_miss_, mhwfhits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", mh_wf_dodge_, mhwfhits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", mh_wf_hit_, mhwfhits);
***************
*** 212,225 ****
  
    double mhfthits = mh_ft_crit_ + mh_ft_hit_ + mh_ft_miss_;
    if (mhfthits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nMH Flametongue:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", mh_ft_miss_, mhfthits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", mh_ft_hit_, mhfthits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", mh_ft_crit_, mhfthits);
    }
  
    if (mhsshits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nMH Storsmtrike:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", mh_ss_miss_, mhsshits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", mh_ss_dodge_, mhsshits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", mh_ss_hit_, mhsshits);
--- 212,225 ----
  
    double mhfthits = mh_ft_crit_ + mh_ft_hit_ + mh_ft_miss_;
    if (mhfthits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nMH Flametongue:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", mh_ft_miss_, mhfthits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", mh_ft_hit_, mhfthits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", mh_ft_crit_, mhfthits);
    }
  
    if (mhsshits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nMH Storsmtrike:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", mh_ss_miss_, mhsshits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", mh_ss_dodge_, mhsshits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", mh_ss_hit_, mhsshits);
***************
*** 228,234 ****
  
    double ohhits = oh_crit_ + oh_dodge_ + oh_glancing_ + oh_hit_ + oh_miss_;
    if (ohhits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nOH:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", oh_miss_, ohhits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", oh_dodge_, ohhits);
      printValueAndPercent("glancing", oh_glancing_, ohhits);
--- 228,234 ----
  
    double ohhits = oh_crit_ + oh_dodge_ + oh_glancing_ + oh_hit_ + oh_miss_;
    if (ohhits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nOH:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", oh_miss_, ohhits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", oh_dodge_, ohhits);
      printValueAndPercent("glancing", oh_glancing_, ohhits);
***************
*** 240,248 ****
    double ohsshits = oh_ss_crit_ + oh_ss_dodge_ + oh_ss_hit_ + oh_ss_miss_;
    double ohwfhits = oh_wf_crit_ + oh_wf_dodge_ + oh_wf_hit_ + oh_wf_miss_;
    if (ohwfhits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nOH Windfury:\n";
!     enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "procs/hits" << ohwfhits / 2 / (ohhits - oh_miss_ - oh_dodge_ + ohsshits - oh_ss_miss_ - oh_ss_dodge_ + lavalash - lava_lash_miss_ - lava_lash_dodge_) * 100 << "%" << std::endl;
!     enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "procs/swings" << ohwfhits / 2 / (ohhits + ohsshits + lavalash) * 100 << "%" << std::endl;
      printValueAndPercent("miss", oh_wf_miss_, ohwfhits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", oh_wf_dodge_, ohwfhits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", oh_wf_hit_, ohwfhits);
--- 240,248 ----
    double ohsshits = oh_ss_crit_ + oh_ss_dodge_ + oh_ss_hit_ + oh_ss_miss_;
    double ohwfhits = oh_wf_crit_ + oh_wf_dodge_ + oh_wf_hit_ + oh_wf_miss_;
    if (ohwfhits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nOH Windfury:\n";
!     std::cout << std::setw(20) << "procs/hits" << ohwfhits / 2 / (ohhits - oh_miss_ - oh_dodge_ + ohsshits - oh_ss_miss_ - oh_ss_dodge_ + lavalash - lava_lash_miss_ - lava_lash_dodge_) * 100 << "%" << std::endl;
!     std::cout << std::setw(20) << "procs/swings" << ohwfhits / 2 / (ohhits + ohsshits + lavalash) * 100 << "%" << std::endl;
      printValueAndPercent("miss", oh_wf_miss_, ohwfhits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", oh_wf_dodge_, ohwfhits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", oh_wf_hit_, ohwfhits);
***************
*** 251,264 ****
  
    double ohfthits = oh_ft_crit_ + oh_ft_hit_ + oh_ft_miss_;
    if (ohfthits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nOH Flametongue:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", oh_ft_miss_, ohfthits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", oh_ft_hit_, ohfthits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", oh_ft_crit_, ohfthits);
    }
  
    if (ohsshits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nOH Stormstrike:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", oh_ss_miss_, ohsshits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", oh_ss_dodge_, ohsshits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", oh_ss_hit_, ohsshits);
--- 251,264 ----
  
    double ohfthits = oh_ft_crit_ + oh_ft_hit_ + oh_ft_miss_;
    if (ohfthits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nOH Flametongue:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", oh_ft_miss_, ohfthits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", oh_ft_hit_, ohfthits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", oh_ft_crit_, ohfthits);
    }
  
    if (ohsshits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nOH Stormstrike:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", oh_ss_miss_, ohsshits);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", oh_ss_dodge_, ohsshits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", oh_ss_hit_, ohsshits);
***************
*** 267,273 ****
  
    double eshits = earth_shock_hit_ + earth_shock_crit_ + earth_shock_miss_;
    if (eshits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nEarth Shock:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", earth_shock_miss_, eshits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", earth_shock_hit_, eshits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", earth_shock_crit_, eshits);
--- 267,273 ----
  
    double eshits = earth_shock_hit_ + earth_shock_crit_ + earth_shock_miss_;
    if (eshits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nEarth Shock:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", earth_shock_miss_, eshits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", earth_shock_hit_, eshits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", earth_shock_crit_, eshits);
***************
*** 275,290 ****
  
    double fshits = flame_shock_hit_ + flame_shock_crit_ + flame_shock_miss_;
    if (fshits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nFlame Shock:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", flame_shock_miss_, fshits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", flame_shock_hit_, fshits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", flame_shock_crit_, fshits);
!     enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << std::left << "dots" << flame_shock_dot_ << std::endl;
    }
  
    double frosthits = frost_shock_hit_ + frost_shock_crit_ + frost_shock_miss_;
    if (frosthits > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nFrost Shock:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", frost_shock_miss_, frosthits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", frost_shock_hit_, frosthits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", frost_shock_crit_, frosthits);
--- 275,290 ----
  
    double fshits = flame_shock_hit_ + flame_shock_crit_ + flame_shock_miss_;
    if (fshits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nFlame Shock:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", flame_shock_miss_, fshits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", flame_shock_hit_, fshits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", flame_shock_crit_, fshits);
!     std::cout << std::setw(20) << std::left << "dots" << flame_shock_dot_ << std::endl;
    }
  
    double frosthits = frost_shock_hit_ + frost_shock_crit_ + frost_shock_miss_;
    if (frosthits > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nFrost Shock:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", frost_shock_miss_, frosthits);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", frost_shock_hit_, frosthits);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", frost_shock_crit_, frosthits);
***************
*** 292,305 ****
  
    double lavaburst = lava_burst_hit_ + lava_burst_crit_ + lava_burst_miss_;
    if (lavaburst > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nLava Burst:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lava_burst_miss_, lavaburst);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lava_burst_hit_, lavaburst);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", lava_burst_crit_, lavaburst);
    }
  
    if (lavalash > 0) {
!   enh::eout << "\nLava Lash:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lava_lash_miss_, lavalash);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", lava_lash_dodge_, lavalash);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lava_lash_hit_, lavalash);
--- 292,305 ----
  
    double lavaburst = lava_burst_hit_ + lava_burst_crit_ + lava_burst_miss_;
    if (lavaburst > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nLava Burst:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lava_burst_miss_, lavaburst);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lava_burst_hit_, lavaburst);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", lava_burst_crit_, lavaburst);
    }
  
    if (lavalash > 0) {
!   std::cout << "\nLava Lash:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lava_lash_miss_, lavalash);
      printValueAndPercent("dodge", lava_lash_dodge_, lavalash);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lava_lash_hit_, lavalash);
***************
*** 308,314 ****
  
    double lb = lightning_bolt_hit_ + lightning_bolt_crit_ + lightning_bolt_miss_;
    if (lb > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nLightning Bolt:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lightning_bolt_miss_, lb);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lightning_bolt_hit_, lb);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", lightning_bolt_crit_, lb);
--- 308,314 ----
  
    double lb = lightning_bolt_hit_ + lightning_bolt_crit_ + lightning_bolt_miss_;
    if (lb > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nLightning Bolt:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lightning_bolt_miss_, lb);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lightning_bolt_hit_, lb);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", lightning_bolt_crit_, lb);
***************
*** 316,322 ****
  
    double cl = chain_lightning_hit_ + chain_lightning_crit_ + chain_lightning_miss_;
    if (cl > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nChain Lightning:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", chain_lightning_miss_, cl);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", chain_lightning_hit_, cl);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", chain_lightning_crit_, cl);
--- 316,322 ----
  
    double cl = chain_lightning_hit_ + chain_lightning_crit_ + chain_lightning_miss_;
    if (cl > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nChain Lightning:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", chain_lightning_miss_, cl);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", chain_lightning_hit_, cl);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", chain_lightning_crit_, cl);
***************
*** 324,330 ****
  
    double ls = lightning_shield_hit_ + lightning_shield_crit_ + lightning_shield_miss_;
    if (ls > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nLightning Shield:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lightning_shield_miss_, ls);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lightning_shield_hit_, ls);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", lightning_shield_crit_, ls);
--- 324,330 ----
  
    double ls = lightning_shield_hit_ + lightning_shield_crit_ + lightning_shield_miss_;
    if (ls > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nLightning Shield:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lightning_shield_miss_, ls);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lightning_shield_hit_, ls);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", lightning_shield_crit_, ls);
***************
*** 332,363 ****
  
    double lo = lightning_overload_hit_ + lightning_overload_crit_ + lightning_overload_miss_;
    if (lo > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nLightning Overload:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lightning_overload_miss_, lo);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lightning_overload_hit_, lo);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", lightning_overload_crit_, lo);
    }
  
    if (maelstrom_weapon_procs_ > 0) {
!     enh::eout << "\nMaelstrom Weapon:\n";
!     enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "PPM" << maelstrom_weapon_procs_ * 60 / seconds_ << std::endl;
    }
  
!   enh::eout << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "flurry uptime" << flurry_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "unleashed rage uptime" << unleashed_rage_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "elemental devastation uptime" << elemental_devastation_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "elemental oath uptime" << elemental_oath_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n\n";
  
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "mh enchant uptime" << mh_enchant_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "oh enchant uptime" << oh_enchant_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "trinket1 uptime" << trinket1_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "trinket2 uptime" << trinket2_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "totem uptime" << totem_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "set bonus uptime" << set_bonus_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(31) << "metagem uptime" << metagem_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n\n";
  
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "" << "MRPS without overregen\n";
    printValueAndPercentRegen("mana regen", mana_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
    printValueAndPercentRegen("mp5", mp5_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
    printValueAndPercentRegen("replenishment", replenishment_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
--- 332,363 ----
  
    double lo = lightning_overload_hit_ + lightning_overload_crit_ + lightning_overload_miss_;
    if (lo > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nLightning Overload:\n";
      printValueAndPercent("miss", lightning_overload_miss_, lo);
      printValueAndPercent("hit", lightning_overload_hit_, lo);
      printValueAndPercent("crit", lightning_overload_crit_, lo);
    }
  
    if (maelstrom_weapon_procs_ > 0) {
!     std::cout << "\nMaelstrom Weapon:\n";
!     std::cout << std::setw(20) << "PPM" << maelstrom_weapon_procs_ * 60 / seconds_ << std::endl;
    }
  
!   std::cout << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "flurry uptime" << flurry_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "unleashed rage uptime" << unleashed_rage_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "elemental devastation uptime" << elemental_devastation_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "elemental oath uptime" << elemental_oath_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n\n";
  
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "mh enchant uptime" << mh_enchant_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "oh enchant uptime" << oh_enchant_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "trinket1 uptime" << trinket1_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "trinket2 uptime" << trinket2_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "totem uptime" << totem_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "set bonus uptime" << set_bonus_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n";
!   std::cout << std::setw(31) << "metagem uptime" << metagem_uptime_ / seconds_ << "%\n\n";
  
!   std::cout << std::setw(20) << "" << "MRPS without overregen\n";
    printValueAndPercentRegen("mana regen", mana_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
    printValueAndPercentRegen("mp5", mp5_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
    printValueAndPercentRegen("replenishment", replenishment_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
***************
*** 366,374 ****
    printValueAndPercentRegen("shamanistic rage", shamanistic_rage_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
    printValueAndPercentRegen("mana potion", mana_potion_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
    printValueAndPercentRegen("misc potion", misc_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
!   enh::eout << std::endl;
  
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "" << enh::setw(20) << "DPS" << enh::setw(10) << "PPM" << "MPS\n";
    printValueAndPercentFinal("white", mh_glancing_damage_ + mh_hit_damage_ + mh_crit_damage_ + oh_glancing_damage_ + oh_hit_damage_ + oh_crit_damage_, dmg, mhhits+ohhits);
    printValueAndPercentFinal("windfury", mh_wf_hit_damage_ + mh_wf_crit_damage_ + oh_wf_hit_damage_ + oh_wf_crit_damage_, dmg, (mhwfhits+ohwfhits)/2);
    printValueAndPercentFinal("flametongue", mh_ft_hit_damage_ + mh_ft_crit_damage_ + oh_ft_hit_damage_ + oh_ft_crit_damage_, dmg, mhfthits+ohfthits);
--- 366,374 ----
    printValueAndPercentRegen("shamanistic rage", shamanistic_rage_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
    printValueAndPercentRegen("mana potion", mana_potion_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
    printValueAndPercentRegen("misc potion", misc_regen_, getTotalManaRegen());
!   std::cout << std::endl;
  
!   std::cout << std::setw(20) << "" << std::setw(20) << "DPS" << std::setw(10) << "PPM" << "MPS\n";
    printValueAndPercentFinal("white", mh_glancing_damage_ + mh_hit_damage_ + mh_crit_damage_ + oh_glancing_damage_ + oh_hit_damage_ + oh_crit_damage_, dmg, mhhits+ohhits);
    printValueAndPercentFinal("windfury", mh_wf_hit_damage_ + mh_wf_crit_damage_ + oh_wf_hit_damage_ + oh_wf_crit_damage_, dmg, (mhwfhits+ohwfhits)/2);
    printValueAndPercentFinal("flametongue", mh_ft_hit_damage_ + mh_ft_crit_damage_ + oh_ft_hit_damage_ + oh_ft_crit_damage_, dmg, mhfthits+ohfthits);
***************
*** 384,413 ****
    printValueAndPercentFinalMana("lightning shield", lightning_shield_damage_ + lightning_shield_crit_damage_, dmg, lightning_shield_cast_, lightning_shield_mana_, getTotalMana());
    printValueAndPercentFinal("lightning overload", lightning_overload_damage_ + lightning_overload_crit_damage_, dmg, lo);
    printValueAndPercentFinal("misc", misc_damage_, dmg, misc_hit_);
!   enh::eout << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "DPS" << getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "MPS" << getTotalMPS() << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "MP2min" << getTotalMPS() * 120 << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "MRPS" << getTotalMRPS() + mana_overregen_ / seconds_ << std::endl;
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << "Out of mana time" << oom_time_ / seconds_ << "%" << std::endl;
  
    /*if (mw_stack_full_count_ > 0) {
      double mw_avg = mw_total_time_ / mw_stack_full_count_;
      double mw_sd = sqrt((mw_total_sd_time_ / mw_stack_full_count_) - (mw_avg * mw_avg));
  
!     enh::eout << std::endl << "Average time to get 5 MW charges: " << mw_avg << std::endl;
!     enh::eout << "95% of times it is between " << mw_avg - 1.96 * mw_sd << "s and " << mw_avg + 1.96 * mw_sd << "s" << std::endl;
    }*/
  
!   enh::eout << std::endl;
  }
  
  void Statistics::printValueAndPercentRegen(const std::string& label, const double& value, const double& total) {
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << std::left << label << enh::setw(10) << value/seconds_ << enh::setprecision(2) << value * 100 / total << "%" << std::endl;
  }
  
  void Statistics::printValueAndPercent(const std::string& label, const double& value, const double& total) {
!   enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << std::left << label << enh::setw(15) << enh::setprecision(0) << value << enh::setprecision(2) << value * 100 / total << "%" << std::endl;
  }
  
  void Statistics::printValueAndPercentFinal(const std::string& label, const double& value, const double& total, const double& procs) {
--- 384,413 ----
    printValueAndPercentFinalMana("lightning shield", lightning_shield_damage_ + lightning_shield_crit_damage_, dmg, lightning_shield_cast_, lightning_shield_mana_, getTotalMana());
    printValueAndPercentFinal("lightning overload", lightning_overload_damage_ + lightning_overload_crit_damage_, dmg, lo);
    printValueAndPercentFinal("misc", misc_damage_, dmg, misc_hit_);
!   std::cout << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(20) << "DPS" << getTotalDPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(20) << "MPS" << getTotalMPS() << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(20) << "MP2min" << getTotalMPS() * 120 << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(20) << "MRPS" << getTotalMRPS() + mana_overregen_ / seconds_ << std::endl;
!   std::cout << std::setw(20) << "Out of mana time" << oom_time_ / seconds_ << "%" << std::endl;
  
    /*if (mw_stack_full_count_ > 0) {
      double mw_avg = mw_total_time_ / mw_stack_full_count_;
      double mw_sd = sqrt((mw_total_sd_time_ / mw_stack_full_count_) - (mw_avg * mw_avg));
  
!     std::cout << std::endl << "Average time to get 5 MW charges: " << mw_avg << std::endl;
!     std::cout << "95% of times it is between " << mw_avg - 1.96 * mw_sd << "s and " << mw_avg + 1.96 * mw_sd << "s" << std::endl;
    }*/
  
!   std::cout << std::endl;
  }
  
  void Statistics::printValueAndPercentRegen(const std::string& label, const double& value, const double& total) {
!   std::cout << std::setw(20) << std::left << label << std::setw(10) << value/seconds_ << std::setprecision(2) << value * 100 / total << "%" << std::endl;
  }
  
  void Statistics::printValueAndPercent(const std::string& label, const double& value, const double& total) {
!   std::cout << std::setw(20) << std::left << label << std::setw(15) << std::setprecision(0) << value << std::setprecision(2) << value * 100 / total << "%" << std::endl;
  }
  
  void Statistics::printValueAndPercentFinal(const std::string& label, const double& value, const double& total, const double& procs) {
***************
*** 418,424 ****
      std::string percent = out.str();
      percent.append("%");
      
!     enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << std::left << label << enh::setw(10) << value/seconds_ << enh::setw(10) << percent << procs*60/seconds_ << std::endl;
    }
  }
  
--- 418,424 ----
      std::string percent = out.str();
      percent.append("%");
      
!     std::cout << std::setw(20) << std::left << label << std::setw(10) << value/seconds_ << std::setw(10) << percent << procs*60/seconds_ << std::endl;
    }
  }
  
***************
*** 430,436 ****
      std::string percent = out.str();
      percent.append("%");
  
!     enh::eout << enh::setw(20) << std::left << label << enh::setw(10) << value/seconds_ << enh::setw(10) << percent << enh::setw(10) << procs*60/seconds_ << enh::setw(10) << value2/seconds_ << value2 * 100 / total2 << "%" << std::endl;
    }
  }
  
--- 430,436 ----
      std::string percent = out.str();
      percent.append("%");
  
!     std::cout << std::setw(20) << std::left << label << std::setw(10) << value/seconds_ << std::setw(10) << percent << std::setw(10) << procs*60/seconds_ << std::setw(10) << value2/seconds_ << value2 * 100 / total2 << "%" << std::endl;
    }
  }
#1172SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Rhalis View Post
The issue is the same as that of compiling on OSX. The author posted the bits of text that needed to be replaced in order to make it compile a few pages back. Though, even after replacing it, there still seemed to be an issue on linux, that I didn't have on OSX.
That patch doesn't look complete. Changing enh::eout to std::cout and all enh:: for std:: seems to solve the issue.

tukez - Wouldn't sub-classing streambuf in EnhSimOutput help you get rid off all the operator code and let you leach the stream to a log file if enabled? (Like I said, no good at C++, just wondering)
#1173SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shae
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS
I was curious about the more or less standard rotation prioritizing Lava Lash over refreshing Lightning Shield. Given how anemic Lava Lash damage is, it seems that you might eek out a few more dps by reversing them. Obviously depends on variables like talent choices (static shock, imp shields), offhand weap choice, and general gear level / mana situation. In the spirit of true min maxing, I swapped them and noticed a few dps increase at my 10 man gear level with minimal buffs. Not a particularly significant increase and possibly in the range of noise in the simulator. I don't know what it might be for you guys in 25 man gear, but thought it might be interesting to some of the folks playing around with high spell power and fast offhands.
#1174SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
You should prefer LL over refreshing LS because of Flurry, UR, and most importantly MW procs. In all actuality by putting LS at the bottom of your sim priority list you're really saying that everything takes priority over LS, not just that LL does.
#1175SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Shae View Post
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS
I was curious about the more or less standard rotation prioritizing Lava Lash over refreshing Lightning Shield. Given how anemic Lava Lash damage is, it seems that you might eek out a few more dps by reversing them. Obviously depends on variables like talent choices (static shock, imp shields), offhand weap choice, and general gear level / mana situation. In the spirit of true min maxing, I swapped them and noticed a few dps increase at my 10 man gear level with minimal buffs. Not a particularly significant increase and possibly in the range of noise in the simulator. I don't know what it might be for you guys in 25 man gear, but thought it might be interesting to some of the folks playing around with high spell power and fast offhands.
Honestly in actual play that isn't a factor in the least, nor is searing totem. There are always free GCDs during the DPS cycle, when MW is <4 and ES, SS, and LL are on CD, these are the ideal times to refresh LS and searing totem, even if I have an 8 stack of LS I will still refresh it if the GCD is available, and anytime the searing totem is getting low (around 10s left) I will drop that as well, even if it overwrites a chunk of the old totem, it isn't as if mana is really an issue in raiding for us right now. So as far as priority goes in the sim, use whatever setup gets you the most DPS because in live play you will have better uptime anyway.
#1176SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3illusive_2008
Ok just looking for brutal honest feedback. First time using sim, trying to help out our guild enhancement shaman. Really like the setup of the sim and how simple it is to configure. Thanks for time spent on making this sim. Please correct me for whatever I made in possible imput mistakes. Overall I have spent alot of time reading post in here from Rouncer and alot of others. Feeling to have a comfortable general idea on hit / expertise info, and overall stat weight.

This is DPS that was outputted to combat text.

DPS PPM MPS
white 1391.09 31.74% 87.87
windfury 560.29 12.78% 6.49
flametongue 510.08 11.64% 55.81
stormstrike 236.31 5.39% 6.52 35.90 26.76%
lava lash 152.30 3.47% 9.09 18.49 13.78%
earth shock 583.31 13.31% 9.14 33.19 24.74%
lightning bolt 707.08 16.13% 8.05 46.57 34.72%
lightning shield 242.33 5.53% 0.84 0.00 0.00%

DPS 4382.80
MPS 134.16
MP2min 16098.70
MRPS 138.07
Out of mana time 0.03%

elapsed simulation time: 5.00h
elapsed real time: 6.03s
simulation speed: 29844
Here is config file.

imulation_time 5000
simulation_time_combatlog 300
combat_length 6
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 120
max_lag 200
simulate_mana 1

ep_precision 2
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 200
ep_crit_rating 30
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 4
ep_haste_rating 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 30
ep_spellpower 150
ep_dps 7.5
ep_mana 250
ep_spirit 150
ep_mp5 20

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 0
bloodlust_casters 2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left 700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left 3000

rotation_priority_count 6
rotation_priority1 SS
rotation_priority2 ES
rotation_priority3 LL
rotation_priority4 LS
rotation_priority5 MW5_LB
rotation_priority6 MW4_LB

miss 9.00
dodge 6.50
glancing 25.00
armor 13083
spell_miss 17.00
nature_resistance 0
fire_resistance 0
frost_resistance 0
arcane_resistance 0
shadow_resistance 0

armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff 0/2.0
melee_haste_buff 20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat 688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier 99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff 10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff 13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
haste_buff 3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase 3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff 52/52
agi_and_strength_buff 178/178
intellect_buff 60/60

replenishment 1
water_shield 0
mana_spring_totem 0
blessing_of_wisdom 1
judgement_of_wisdom 1

flask_elixir flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir -
potion -
food dalaran_clam_chowder
misc_item -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon ###
###############################################################################

race tauren
mh_speed 2.49
oh_speed 2.39
mh_dps 100.3
oh_dps 107.9
mh_crit 30.37
oh_crit 30.37
mh_hit 11.41
oh_hit 11.41
mh_expertise_rating 262
oh_expertise_rating 262
ap 3399
haste 4.33
armor_penetration 10.42
str 133
agi 778
int 491
spi 153
spellpower 1019
spell_crit 23.26
spell_hit 14.26
max_mana 11481
mp5 0

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue flametongue

mh_enchant mongoose
oh_enchant mongoose

mh_weapon -
oh_weapon -

trinket1 mirror_of_truth
trinket2 mark_of_norgannon

totem totem_of_splintering

set_bonus naxx_melee_4

metagem relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1 lightning_shield
glyph_major2 windfury_weapon
glyph_major3 stormstrike

glyph_minor1 -
glyph_minor2 -
glyph_minor3 -

ancestral_knowledge 2/5
improved_shields 0/3
mental_dexterity 3/3
shamanistic_focus 1/1
flurry 5/5
elemental_weapons 3/3
unleashed_rage 5/5
weapon_mastery 3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness 3/3
improved_stormstrike 2/2
static_shock 3/3
maelstrom_weapon 5/5

convection 2/5
concussion 5/5
call_of_flame 0/3
elemental_devastation 3/3
reverberation 0/5
elemental_focus 1/1
elemental_fury 4/5
call_of_thunder 0/1
unrelenting_storm 0/5
elemental_precision 0/3
lightning_mastery 0/5
elemental_oath 0/2
lightning_overload 0/5
lava_flows 0/3
storm_earth_and_fire 0/5
Generally only doing 3-4k in raids. Been having some lag issues, but overall I am just trying to help him improve his DPS by ensuring better gem chocies and enchants. His armory is follows to help double check my config information.
The World of Warcraft Armory
#1177SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by illusive_2008 View Post
Generally only doing 3-4k in raids. Been having some lag issues, but overall I am just trying to help him improve his DPS by ensuring better gem chocies and enchants. His armory is follows to help double check my config information.
The World of Warcraft Armory
He is WAY over the expertise cap and he is using a weapon chain on the mainhand. Get him to either change his gemming to take advantage of the trinket or he should just use a different trinket altogether since every drop of expertise above 214 is worth 0 EP.

One other thing, when you configure the sim use the weapon speed values from the tooltips without including the haste.
#1178SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kombinat
bloodlust_casters 2
Does that work still?
#1179SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Kombinat View Post
Does that work still?
When battle time is over five minute you can get two bloodlusts.
#1180SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shae
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
You should prefer LL over refreshing LS because of Flurry, UR, and most importantly MW procs.
That was sort of what I expected to see in my sim results, but it did not seem to be true for the scenario I was running. Further experimentation with faster offhands did not increase the difference as I thought might be the case, but held constant around ~2dps. The behaviour I observed only seems true with 3/3 Static Shock and few buff/debuffs. Increasing the buffs/debuffs favoured LL, so it's clearly a trivial difference with an uncommon buff situation. I think the conventional wisdom has been validated.

And as Protico pointed out, this is really a theoretical sim only situation anyways. Thanks for reminding me to pay more attention to refreshing early!
#1181SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Shae View Post
That was sort of what I expected to see in my sim results, but it did not seem to be true for the scenario I was running. Further experimentation with faster offhands did not increase the difference as I thought might be the case, but held constant around ~2dps. The behaviour I observed only seems true with 3/3 Static Shock and few buff/debuffs. Increasing the buffs/debuffs favoured LL, so it's clearly a trivial difference with an uncommon buff situation. I think the conventional wisdom has been validated.

And as Protico pointed out, this is really a theoretical sim only situation anyways. Thanks for reminding me to pay more attention to refreshing early!
It wouldn't be a bad thing for Tukez to include an option to refresh Lightning Shield when it is below a certain number of charges. Unless the Sim is simply ignoring the charges and refreshing LS whenever it has a free GCD, not really sure how the Sim works in that regard.
#1182SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paenor
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
It wouldn't be a bad thing for Tukez to include an option to refresh Lightning Shield when it is below a certain number of charges. Unless the Sim is simply ignoring the charges and refreshing LS whenever it has a free GCD, not really sure how the Sim works in that regard.
Pretty sure that's what this command is for.

cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 1 //maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS

I use that and put it down below my 'main' rotation, but above searing totem. Both get refreshed that way.
#1183SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Staticus
But does the searing totem have a similar command to refresh it when it has less than a given amount of time left on it? (can't see a command like that so I'm assuming the sim is refreshing the totem whenever it can)
#1184SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Paenor
Well, to be fair it's not really needed. The only real loss from putting a new one down early is mana, and possibly a little DPS if it puts it down right before it's going to shoot, but that's a completely different issue. So unless the sim is telling you that are going to be out of mana for some fairly substation amount of time, I wouldn't worry about it.

Edit: It guess I should suffix this by saying, adding searing in the method I described above doesn't make a difference to my out of mana time. I'm still not ever running out with my mediocre gear.

Last edited by Paenor : 01/13/09 at 5:42 PM.
#1185SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Staticus
Some dps would be lost by the swing timer getting reset a lot more than needed (if ST was being refreshed every available gcd), which is why I brought it up.
#1186SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bargle
Originally Posted by Staticus View Post
Some dps would be lost by the swing timer getting reset a lot more than needed (if ST was being refreshed every available gcd), which is why I brought it up.
Instant spells such as totems don't effect the swing timer.
#1187SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Goritos
I have been reading through many of the parses from sims ( I am not well versed on how to run one so I choose to read them with the different gear sets that people have come up with) and was wondering if webbed death/sinisters (neither have dropped for me yet in raid as well as a CG) is still BIS or close to it with the patch coming up. I mostly ignore the double FT imbues parses with spell dmg weapons since it has been states that WF/FT will be superior( with a slow weapon in the MH) with WF glyph change. I dont want to hinder the rogue if the daggers would not be a significant up grade or BIS for myself. Thank you in advance for answers.
#1188SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jonnaei
Originally Posted by Goritos View Post
I have been reading through many of the parses from sims ( I am not well versed on how to run one so I choose to read them with the different gear sets that people have come up with) and was wondering if webbed death/sinisters (neither have dropped for me yet in raid as well as a CG) is still BIS or close to it with the patch coming up. I mostly ignore the double FT imbues parses with spell dmg weapons since it has been states that WF/FT will be superior( with a slow weapon in the MH) with WF glyph change. I dont want to hinder the rogue if the daggers would not be a significant up grade or BIS for myself. Thank you in advance for answers.

1. Download the sim.

2. Run enhsimgui.exe and input paper doll stats, buffs, consumables, etc.

3. Run it.

Do this for each of the combinations you want to test, changing paper doll stats to account for the differences from changing setups.

4. Profit.
#1189SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kletha
I did a sim just recently and had a wierd result. My haste EP was negative, not by a whole lot but still. I thought that it was just a fluke, went about my buisness and when I got a new upgrade yesterday I ran the sim again on my new stats and I still had a negative haste EP but a little bit bigger.

I can't see what I did wrong and I can't seem to find if there's some known bug. I don't reach the 1.5 speed except with heroism and that's such a short while that I can't see it mattering that much.

My config:

simulation_time                 100000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         1
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          143.6
oh_dps                          120.0
mh_crit                         20.36
oh_crit                         20.36
mh_hit                          9.36
oh_hit                          9.36
mh_expertise_rating             102
oh_expertise_rating             102
ap                              2882
haste                           2.90
armor_penetration               5
str                             129
agi                             534
int                             403
spi                             153
spellpower                      1138
spell_crit                      17.65
spell_hit                       11.7
max_mana                        10161
mp5                             8

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      -

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fezziks_pocketwatch
trinket2                        meteorite_whetstone

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       skyshatter_harness_2

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
and the results of the EP calculation:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3775.77
ap                        1.00      0.45      3866.75        90.98
crit rating               1.72      0.78      3799.28        23.51
hit rating                3.25      1.48      3820.15        44.38
expertise rating          2.56      1.16      3813.92        38.15
haste rating              -0.50     -0.23     3768.91        -6.86
armor penetration rating  0.96      0.43      3788.80        13.03
spellpower                1.04      0.47      3846.69        70.93
mh dps                    5.77      2.63      3795.46        19.70
oh dps                    2.61      1.19      3784.68        8.91
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.71      
intelligence              1.57      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      3775.86        0.09
mana                      0.01      0.00      3776.51        0.74
mp5                       0.11      0.05      3776.73        0.97
Can anyone see anything I did wrong?
#1190SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3IMB111
Originally Posted by Kletha View Post
I don't reach the 1.5 speed except with heroism and that's such a short while that I can't see it mattering that much.
Actually your weaponspeed is only a tiny bit slower than 1.5 and with the additional haste of the ep-calculation your mainhand weapon is faster than 1.5 attackspeed.

2.5 / (1.3 [flurry] * 1.2 [windfury totem] * 1.03 [imp retribution aura] * 1.029 [itemhaste]) = 1.51

Your actual cap is 3.73 % haste from items.
#1191SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
The negative haste ep value will change once you stack more haste. If i remember correctly from a few pages ago, you're just in one of those sweet spots right now. Play around with the sim and see what happens when you stack more and more haste. At some point I believe those numbers should start going positive again.
#1192SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Vesham View Post
you're just in one of those sweet spots right now
More like sour spots. Sour like rancid lemons dipped in battery acid. There is the possibility that this is a sim only phenomenon but nothing has been proven with any certainty so far.


By sim only I am referring to the fact that it works perfectly, ie the windfury procs at the same moment as the melee attack that procced it while it seems that due to server-client interaction there is a lot of leeway in when the actual windfury proc from a melee attack gets worked out and that may be being determined independent of the cooldown which would allow the cooldown to run out even though the attack that procced the windfury occurred while the cooldown was still active (or something like that, whole thing is pretty confusing and hard to get your head around straight).
#1193SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kletha
Ah, yes. I missed a few of the haste effects. Now it all makes sense.

It's very counterintuitive though as I would probably not need a whole lot of haste to get me out of that spot and into positive values of about 1-2 eps but I guess there's not much to be done about it.

I read in another thread that you wrote Rounced that WF cooldown seems to be less than 3 secs but the simulator is written for 3 secs so for simulations I guess that doesn't matter.

Thanks for the help to find that obvious thing out.

EDIT:
Originally Posted by Rounced
By sim only I am referring to the fact that it works perfectly, ie the windfury procs at the same moment as the melee attack that procced it while it seems that due to server-client interaction there is a lot of leeway in when the actual windfury proc from a melee attack gets worked out and that may be being determined independent of the cooldown which would allow the cooldown to run out even though the attack that procced the windfury occurred while the cooldown was still active (or something like that, whole thing is pretty confusing and hard to get your head around straight).
I've had such lag happen to me a lot of times when turning away or going out of range. I do my last attack (white or special) and then either turn or go out of range and a ½ second later or so the WF animation plays and the yellow numbers pop up. This could just be lagg on the animation and combat log if it wasn't for the fact that the mob died when the WF hit. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
#1194SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Thailog
I would dearly love some expert guidance here if I could. I was a resto shammy, who was much better versed in HEP's and the like, until the guild I'm in asked if I would switch over to Enhancement because we were lacking dps, and had more healers that we knew what to do with. I had no quibble, as I had leveled enhancement, and with the addition of Maelstrom, I had very little downtime, and a great deal of fun. So, I respeced, came here, read the Think Tank, and as many threads as I could, and downloaded the sim and played with it extensively. I can't claim to be an expert at it's subtleties, but I do believe that I have a basic understanding of it's workings. I'm also very much indebted to Shock And Awe, which got rid of my button mashing phase, and instead had me work on the priority ability at the time. So, as ones does, I've gotten geared with drops and assorted items as they become available (come on Grim Toll... drop again). What I'm experiencing is a distinct disconnect between what I sim out my dps should be, and my best actual raid dps. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong with the sim, or I'm still very much inexperienced at being enhancement, but I'm starting to get concerned at my general low raid dps numbers. The difference is ~ 1000 dps between the sim number and the acutal raid number, and I don't have a clue as to why that is.

If anyone has any idea why there is such a difference, I'd be ever so grateful for an explanation.

................................................................................

MH:
miss                2690703        10.72%
dodge               689237         2.74%
glancing            6268492        24.96%
hit                 2998257        11.94%
crit                12463072       49.63%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.38%
procs/swings        12.65%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               204634         2.79%
hit                 3594586        49.01%
crit                3534984        48.20%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               108068         2.79%
hit                 1906281        49.17%
crit                1862487        48.04%

OH:
miss                2583744        10.71%
dodge               661374         2.74%
glancing            6013742        24.93%
hit                 2882824        11.95%
crit                11977438       49.66%

OH Flametongue:
miss                55510          0.19%
hit                 16208057       55.73%
crit                12821232       44.08%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               103651         2.75%
hit                 1851936        49.14%
crit                1813181        48.11%

Earth Shock:
miss                9547           0.19%
hit                 2791582        55.76%
crit                2205329        44.05%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               129683         2.77%
hit                 2280810        48.78%
crit                2264868        48.44%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                9290           0.20%
hit                 2635605        55.66%
crit                2090287        44.14%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 43.58

flurry uptime                  90.01%
unleashed rage uptime          99.99%
elemental devastation uptime   77.70%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              33.31%
oh enchant uptime              30.84%
trinket1 uptime                0.00%
trinket2 uptime                18.01%
totem uptime                   46.45%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 34.62     31.98%
replenishment       30.81     28.46%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      0.00%
shamanistic rage    42.82     39.56%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1269.56   33.79%    82.05
windfury            480.72    12.8%     6.11
flametongue         462.87    12.32%    48.47
stormstrike         221.51    5.9%      6.46      35.60     27.05%
lava lash           127.07    3.38%     7.79      15.48     11.76%
earth shock         522.35    13.9%     8.34      33.57     25.51%
lightning bolt      672.58    17.9%     7.89      46.95     35.68%

DPS                 3756.65
MPS                 131.60
MP2min              15791.56
MRPS                129.22
Out of mana time    0.01%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 19.10s
simulation speed: 1885310x
and the setup file...

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         200
max_lag                         300
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.50
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          143.6
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         30.25
oh_crit                         30.25
mh_hit                          10.25
oh_hit                          10.25
mh_expertise_rating             123.00
oh_expertise_rating             123.00
ap                              3055
haste                           7.32
armor_penetration               0.00
str                             186
agi                             728
int                             389
spi                             153
spellpower                      916
spell_crit                      23.13
spell_hit                       12.81
max_mana                        9951
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        -
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5
And last but not least.... WWS Log of last guild run
#1195SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Vesham
Look and make sure you're actually receiving all of the buffs you checked. You're not using or refreshing Lightning Shield (or at least you weren't on Patchwerk). The simulation also begins with both weapons already in phase with each other. You'd need a macro to put your weapons in phase with each other immediately at the start of the fight.

Edit: Is there something wrong with your EP values or are mine just outdated?

Last edited by Vesham : 01/17/09 at 5:28 AM.
#1196SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Grimhild
Incorrect Expertise Cap?

(I apologize, in advance, if the answer to my question is answered elsewhere -- I haven't been able to find it if it is)

For a Draenei Shaman, 214 (6.5%) is commonly accepted as the expertise cap for level 80 without buffs, food, or flasks. Unfortunately, EnhSim is reporting that my expertise (209 / 6.25%) is above is above that cap when calculating EP values. Is this a bug in EnhSim? Is the math wrong? Or is this just a PEBKAC error?
#1197SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
EnhSim uses steps to evaluate EP values. Idea of that is to lessen the RNG effect I believe. Your problem is that the step takes you over the Expertise cap as default value is 4, unless I remember wrong. You can just cap it, or if really want to measure it change the step to 1.

These lines define the steps:

ep_precision 2
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 46
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 4
ep_haste_rating 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating 15
ep_spellpower 28
ep_dps 10.0
ep_mana 200
ep_spirit 100
ep_mp5 20

Not sure what first one does, but the line ep_expertise is the one you would have to alter. Personally i would just max expertise
#1198SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Atren, right concept wrong fix.

By reducing the EP value for exp to 1 you are merely introducing more error into your calculations. Change it to -4 instead and then it will be removing 4 exp from your values and then rerunning the testing series and seeing what effect the removal had on your dps. The result will be something like -2.67 which you then just make into a positive number, 2.67, which is your value for expertise.

The precision line is how many units of precision you want the results to have. 0 would give you results like 1 or 2 or 3 while 1 precision would be 1.1 or 1.2 or 2.3 and 2 precision would be 1.21 or 1.32 or 2.67
#1199SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Karunga
BTW since English is not my nativ language and im having a little difficulty interpreting the Data the Sim gives me, please take a short look:

EP value DPS total DPS difference

baseline 5571
ap 1 -0 5568 -3
crit rating -68 1 5603 32
hit rating -67 1 5602 32
expertise rating -0 0 0 -5571
haste rating -54 1 5596 25
armor penetration rating -43 1 5591 20
spellpower -47 1 5681 110
mh dps -204 3 5595 24
oh dps -84 1 5581 10
strength 1
agility -21
intelligence* -10
spirit -0 0 0 -5571
mana -0 0 0 -5571
mp5 -0 0 0 -5571

Do i see it right that Haste and Armor Penetration would bring the greatest DPS bonus indicated by these number?
#1200SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
Anyone else having problems with simming bandit's insignia? I posted a config file and results with it few pages back.
#1201SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Grimhild
Originally Posted by Karunga View Post
BTW since English is not my nativ language and im having a little difficulty interpreting the Data the Sim gives me, please take a short look:

EP value DPS total DPS difference

baseline 5571
ap 1 -0 5568 -3
crit rating -68 1 5603 32
hit rating -67 1 5602 32
expertise rating -0 0 0 -5571
haste rating -54 1 5596 25
armor penetration rating -43 1 5591 20
spellpower -47 1 5681 110
mh dps -204 3 5595 24
oh dps -84 1 5581 10
strength 1
agility -21
intelligence* -10


Do i see it right that Haste and Armor Penetration would bring the greatest DPS bonus indicated by these number?
English as your second (or n'th) language is not the problem -- your statistics are all negative. There is either something wrong in your config or you've entered something wrong. If these were all positive numbers, Armor Pen would not provided the greatest DPS benefit -- Spell Power, Crit Rating, and Hit Rating would give you the best DPS.

I've suffered from this previously and haven't been able to find the needle in the haystack. Instead of pulling my hair, I re-downloaded a new copy, overwrote all the old stuff, re-entered all the stats, and re-ran it. Don't rely on data until most (if not all) the numbers are positive.
#1202SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Karunga
Yeah thank you. Im 4 Items away from - what I belive - is BiS for me, So until Ulduar this is settled, but I would like to understand the Sim, just in case =)
#1203SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
Since Magma totems damage is being buffed, could we get an option to use Magma totem in the sim over searing? Also, I might just be blind, but I cannot find an option to enable or disable the use of Feral Spirits, I read through the majority of this thread and did not see anything stated on that.

Also, my haste value seems to jump around between 1.15 and 1.89ish when running multiple EP simulations, I read somewhere that procs etc coinciding at different times can cause stuff like this, but isn't that a pretty decent difference?

Thanks for the great utility =) I appreciate all the time and effort you have put into it.
#1204SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Karunga
Originally Posted by kaoticz View Post
Since Magma totems damage is being buffed, could we get an option to use Magma totem in the sim over searing? Also, I might just be blind, but I cannot find an option to enable or disable the use of Feral Spirits, I read through the majority of this thread and did not see anything stated on that.

Also, my haste value seems to jump around between 1.15 and 1.89ish when running multiple EP simulations, I read somewhere that procs etc coinciding at different times can cause stuff like this, but isn't that a pretty decent difference?

Thanks for the great utility =) I appreciate all the time and effort you have put into it.
Keeping Magma Up might be very very mana intensive, but never the less ...

Abtout Feral Spirits: They should come around 100DPS if you keep them on cooldown, and IF they do not die by various reasons, since they have no AE survival of any kind. plus they are currently bugged and do not scale with AP or Hitraiting. Plus the Spirit Walk ability is/was bugged and did not free you from certain effects.

All in All you gotta love this Spirit Wolfes =)
#1205SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Karunga View Post
Keeping Magma Up might be very very mana intensive, but never the less ...

Abtout Feral Spirits: They should come around 100DPS if you keep them on cooldown, and IF they do not die by various reasons, since they have no AE survival of any kind. plus they are currently bugged and do not scale with AP or Hitraiting. Plus the Spirit Walk ability is/was bugged and did not free you from certain effects.

All in All you gotta love this Spirit Wolfes =)
Patch should be coming up soon that will fix their scaling. On the PTR full raid buffed they will average 200dps considering a 25% uptime. Spirit Walk also is supposedly fixed as well although I have not had an opportunity to test that.

The sarcasm is really unnecessary and all in all I think they are an incredible ability that is not deserving of your scorn.

As for Magma totem based on the PTR it currently will be doing slightly more damage then Searing totem, on a single target, but even if mana was not a concern having to refresh it 3x as often is and those additional GCDs will reduce the dps contribution from Magma to the point where Searing will be better on a single target. Searing also has more range which means it won't be affected by potential movement of the target.
#1206SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3browncowdown
ok, ive ran this sim countless times and its telling me that the stray is the best possible OH for me, but thats very hard to believe...can someone plz look this over and tell me what/if im doing something wrong?
MH:
miss                245595         9.42%
dodge               38985          1.49%
glancing            651604         24.99%
hit                 328891         12.61%
crit                1342826        51.49%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.06%
procs/swings        12.70%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               11454          1.49%
hit                 367380         47.86%
crit                388838         50.65%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               6204           1.50%
hit                 197921         47.88%
crit                209237         50.62%

OH:
miss                243484         9.34%
dodge               39199          1.50%
glancing            647162         24.82%
hit                 330071         12.66%
crit                1347985        51.69%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1738501        53.76%
crit                1495569        46.24%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               6074           1.49%
hit                 194684         47.82%
crit                206400         50.69%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 289608         53.82%
crit                248511         46.18%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               7750           1.50%
hit                 244852         47.50%
crit                262916         51.00%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 283886         53.77%
crit                244088         46.23%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 48.55

flurry uptime                  95.95
%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   82.44%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              35.18%
oh enchant uptime              32.54%
trinket1 uptime                20.64%
trinket2 uptime                18.35%
totem uptime                   49.75%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    
MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00
%
mp5                 35.02     33.23%
replenishment       38.05     36.11%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 31.93     30.30%
shamanistic rage    0.38      0.36%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    
DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1806.96   36.61
%    86.93
windfury            677.75    13.73
%    6.40
flametongue         548.81    11.12
%    53.90
stormstrike         318.29    6.45
%     6.89      37.96     26.74%
lava lash           177.95    3.61%     8.59      16.79     11.83%
earth shock         596.78    12.09%    8.97      35.37     24.91%
lightning bolt      808.93    16.39%    8.80      51.84     36.52%

DPS                 4935.47
MPS                 141.95
MP2min              17034.07
MRPS                106.08
Out of mana time    0.00
%

elapsed simulation time1000.00h
elapsed real time
3.00s
simulation speed
1199600x 
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    3
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              SR

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925
/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260
/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0
/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0
/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0
/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688
/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7
/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0
/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0
/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0
/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0
/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280
/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0
/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0
/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0
/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0
/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0
/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52
/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178
/178
intellect_buff                  60
/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 
-
potion                          -
food                            snapper_extreme
misc_item                       
-

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         32.18
oh_crit                         32.18
mh_hit                          11.38
oh_hit                          11.38
mh_expertise_rating             169
oh_expertise_rating             169
ap                              3583
haste                           8.66
armor_penetration               4.42
str                             139
agi                             809
int                             556
spi                             159
spellpower                      1074
spell_crit                      25.09
spell_hit                       14.22
max_mana                        12456
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       
-
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    
-
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                1
/3
mental_dexterity                3
/3
shamanistic_focus               1
/1
flurry                          5
/5
elemental_weapons               3
/3
unleashed_rage                  5
/5
weapon_mastery                  3
/3
dual_wield_specialization       3
/3
mental_quickness                3
/3
improved_stormstrike            2
/2
static_shock                    3
/3
maelstrom_weapon                5
/5

convection                      0
/5
concussion                      5
/5
call_of_flame                   0
/3
elemental_devastation           3
/3
reverberation                   0
/5
elemental_focus                 1
/1
elemental_fury                  5
/5
call_of_thunder                 0
/1
unrelenting_storm               0
/5
elemental_precision             0
/3
lightning_mastery               0
/5
elemental_oath                  0
/2
lightning_overload              0
/5
lava_flows                      0
/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0
/

The World of Warcraft Armory

thats my current armory...would love the help, or just for someone to tell me im not crazy, cause i thought AD, WD, and anarchy would all be better OH's
#1207SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Karunga
Well browncowdown, I havent done SIms with your gear, but its quit possible that the Stray is the best OH for your current Equip.

Question is, will it be the best OH for - your planned BiS Equip.

Our Gear has a lot in common and for me, WD will be the best offhand.
(not to mention the look)

@Rounced as for my sarcasm, Spirit Wolfes are really nice in fact, its just sad that so much on them was not working as intended vor so long. What i really miss is their low survivability, last Sartarion they died after 1sec uptime, - ok it was my bad, the flames came right after I summoned them.
#1208SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
As for Magma totem based on the PTR it currently will be doing slightly more damage then Searing totem, on a single target, but even if mana was not a concern having to refresh it 3x as often is and those additional GCDs will reduce the dps contribution from Magma to the point where Searing will be better on a single target. Searing also has more range which means it won't be affected by potential movement of the target.
Could still be added though for the sake of completeness? :P
#1209SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EntropyJim
L2P with simulator

Dear All,
my main is a shammy called gillyn. Whilst usually a healer, I've been working on a set of dps gear and a pretty vanilla spec 16/55/0 spec so that I can fill in in raids if we need more dps.

Armory link here.

The World of Warcraft Armory

As you can see, I don't have th best gear in the world but its far from being the worst. I've been using ShammyFriend and ShockandAwe and Recount is saying my dps ranges from 1.6k up to around 2.4k depending on bosses, trash and buffs.

So, I thought I'd use the simulator to try and help pick the best gear (is 40 +hit worth dropping for another 40 expertise? etc). I've put in details from /saa and filled out the gui but the silumator is telloing me I'm getti9ng 800dps!!!

I'm assuming that I'm either reading the output wrong, or I've missed something.

Config file here:
simulation_time 1000
simulation_time_combatlog 30
combat_length 5
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 0
max_lag 0
simulate_mana 1

ep_precision 0
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 200
ep_crit_rating 30
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 4
ep_haste_rating 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 30
ep_spellpower 150
ep_dps 7.5
ep_mana 250
ep_spirit 150
ep_mp5 20

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 1
bloodlust_casters 2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left 750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left 3000

rotation_priority_count 0

miss 9.0
dodge 6.5
glancing 25.0
armor 13083
spell_miss 17.0
nature_resistance 0
fire_resistance 0
frost_resistance 0
arcane_resistance 0
shadow_resistance 0

armor_debuff_major 0/3925
armor_debuff_minor 0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff 0/2.0
melee_haste_buff 0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff 0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat 0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier 0/99.7
spell_haste_buff 0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff 0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff 0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff 0/10.0
spellpower_buff 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff 0/3.0
haste_buff 0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase 0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff 0/3.0
stat_multiplier 0/10.0
stat_add_buff 0/52
agi_and_strength_buff 0/178
intellect_buff 0/60

replenishment 0
water_shield 0
mana_spring_totem 0
blessing_of_wisdom 0
judgement_of_wisdom 0

flask_elixir -
guardian_elixir -
potion -
food -
misc_item -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon ###
###############################################################################

race tauren
mh_speed 2.60
oh_speed 2.50
mh_dps 143.5
oh_dps 143.6
mh_crit 27.57
oh_crit 27.57
mh_hit 10.67
oh_hit 10.67
mh_expertise_rating 115.00
oh_expertise_rating 115.00
ap 3278
haste 1.01
armor_penetration 1.43
str 133
agi 755
int 467
spi 153
spellpower 983
spell_crit 20.59
spell_hit 13.34
max_mana 11121
mp5 0

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue windfury

mh_enchant -
oh_enchant -

mh_weapon -
oh_weapon -

trinket1 mirror_of_truth
trinket2 meteorite_whetstone

totem totem_of_splintering

set_bonus -

metagem relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1 water_mastery
glyph_major2 windfury_weapon
glyph_major3 -

glyph_minor1 -
glyph_minor2 -
glyph_minor3 -

ancestral_knowledge 5/5
improved_shields 0/3
mental_dexterity 3/3
shamanistic_focus 1/1
flurry 5/5
elemental_weapons 3/3
unleashed_rage 5/5
weapon_mastery 3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness 3/3
improved_stormstrike 2/2
static_shock 3/3
maelstrom_weapon 5/5

convection 0/5
concussion 5/5
call_of_flame 2/3
elemental_devastation 3/3
reverberation 0/5
elemental_focus 1/1
elemental_fury 5/5
call_of_thunder 0/1
unrelenting_storm 0/5
elemental_precision 0/3
lightning_mastery 0/5
elemental_oath 0/2
lightning_overload 0/5
lava_flows 0/3
storm_earth_and_fire 0/5
I'd be very grateful if someone could tell me where I'm going wrong.

Cheers, Jim.
#1210SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by EntropyJim View Post
Dear All,


Cheers, Jim.
There for starters. Don't address your posts and don't sign them. There are clear forum rules for posting on these forums and keep in mind that it is a privilege, not a right. So take a few minutes and read through the rules, maybe scan some of the banhammer posts, before making another post.

That said, the issue is that you haven't selected anything in your priority list. So basically you just have yourself autoattacking and nothing else. You need to select attacks and order them for the sim to model.
#1211SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
I got 204 expertise but I'm getting a over the cap warning from the sim&0ep for expertise, is this a bug or am i missing something?
#1212SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3frozndevl
Originally Posted by rastotem View Post
I got 204 expertise but I'm getting a over the cap warning from the sim&0ep for expertise, is this a bug or am i missing something?
My first question would be what type of EP stepping are you using for expertise?
#1213SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3PhyerFly
This has been covered earlier in this thread, but I had the exact same problem. I believe the "default" EP value for expertise in the sim is 4, which apparently you need to change (or make negative) in order to get that message to disappear and have your EP values be accurate.

I usually don't mess with the EP steps because I don't know what I'm doing, but perhaps we should request that the default value be changed (or the message changed?) assuming that this question is going to keep coming up when new users are plugging in their paper doll stats.
#1214SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
Excuse me for being a nab, but what is ep stepping? :P

"ep_precision 0
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 40
ep_crit_rating 20
ep_hit_rating 20
ep_expertise 3
ep_haste_rating 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 20
ep_spellpower 24
ep_dps 7.5
ep_mana 200
ep_spirit 100
ep_mp5 20

You mean this? its the default.
#1215SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
EP stepping is the amount of each stat that is added (or subtracted if you make it a negative value) during an iteration of the sim run. If a particular stat is coming out at an extremely low value (haste, expertise, hit -mainly as you approach a cap or a particular weapon speed) then you can try making it negative and the resulting value will be as though the cap didn't exist or you hadn't reached it yet. Just be sure to remove the negative before you plug it into pawn or lootrank or you'll get some odd results.
#1216SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EntropyJim
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
That said, the issue is that you haven't selected anything in your priority list. So basically you just have yourself autoattacking and nothing else. You need to select attacks and order them for the sim to model.
Thanks, added

rotation_priority_count 6
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 SS
rotation_priority3 ES
rotation_priority4 LL
rotation_priority5 LS
rotation_priority6 SR
and now up to around 2k dps - certainly more like what I'm seeing in recount. Thanks for the help. Comments on the rotation welcome.
#1217SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
Don't forget Searing Totem (ST).
#1218SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by EntropyJim View Post
and now up to around 2k dps - certainly more like what I'm seeing in recount. Thanks for the help. Comments on the rotation welcome.
You'd benefit greatly from examining your gems (and getting a belt gem socket) and a new MH weapon enchant.
#1219SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by EntropyJim View Post
and now up to around 2k dps - certainly more like what I'm seeing in recount. Thanks for the help. Comments on the rotation welcome.
Don't forget to specify raid buffs in the config file.
#1220SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
Thanks that worked .
#1221SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rawrr
I'm getting really low expertise EP values. I used -1 and -4 as the expertise ep range. What's wrong?



expertise rating value:0.65 DPS: 0.29 total DPS:2861.43 difference:1.13




simulation_time 10000
simulation_time_combatlog 30
combat_length 6
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 0
max_lag 0

ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 46
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise -1
ep_haste_rating 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating 15
ep_spellpower 28
ep_dps 10.0

mh_speed 2.5
oh_speed 1.3
mh_dps 143.5
oh_dps 130
mh_crit 16.07
oh_crit 16.07
mh_hit 7.65
oh_hit 7.65
mh_expertise_rating 164
oh_expertise_rating 164
ap 2365
haste 5.03
armor_penetration 5.46
str 123
agi 606
int 229
spellpower 709
spell_crit 9.45
spell_hit 9.57
base_mana 4396

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue flametongue

mh_enchant -
oh_enchant -

trinket1 -
trinket2 shard_of_contempt

totem stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus -

metagem -

glyph_major1 windfury_weapon
glyph_major2 stormstrike
glyph_major3 -

glyph_minor1 -
glyph_minor2 -
glyph_minor3 -

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 0
bloodlust_casters 2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left 0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 0

rotation_priority_count 6
rotation_priority1 FS
rotation_priority2 MW5_LB
rotation_priority3 SS
rotation_priority4 ES
rotation_priority5 LL
rotation_priority6 LS

miss 9.00
dodge 6.50
glancing 25.00
armor 10850
spell_miss 17.00
nature_resistance 0
fire_resistance 0
frost_resistance 0

ancestral_knowledge 3/5
improved_shields 0/3
mental_dexterity 3/3
shamanistic_focus 1/1
flurry 5/5
elemental_weapons 3/3
unleashed_rage 5/5
weapon_mastery 3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness 3/3
improved_stormstrike 2/2
static_shock 3/3
maelstrom_weapon 5/5
convection 0/5
concussion 5/5
call_of_flame 2/3
elemental_devastation 3/3
reverberation 0/5
elemental_focus 1/1
elemental_fury 5/5
call_of_thunder 0/1
elemental_precision 0/3
lightning_mastery 0/5
elemental_oath 0/2
lightning_overload 0/5
lava_flows 0/3
storm_earth_and_fire 0/5

armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff 2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff 20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat 688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier 99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff 10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff 13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
haste_buff 3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase 3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff 52/52
agi_and_strength_buff 178/178
intellect_buff 60/60

flask_elixir -
guardian_elixir -
potion -
food -
misc_item -

Last edited by Rawrr : 01/21/09 at 12:10 AM.
#1222SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
Would you be able to put in Magma totem for the simulator in the future by any chance? After the patch, I decided to use Magma totem in place of searing totem and my dps shot through the roof on Patchwerk. Here's a parse:

WoW Meter Online
#1223SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Unsu
Originally Posted by Karunga View Post
Question is, will it be the best OH for - your planned BiS Equip.
With the use of tools like chardev.org, I've been attempting to ascertain the set of gear that is best in slot. There are a few pieces that stand out as pieces to work a set around e.g. Blue Aspect Helm and Boots of the Renewed Flight; however, I've noticed that there is no accepted best in slot gear posting like other classes/specs (hopefully I didn't fail at /search). I know that our gear, EP, and "relative" best in slot items change wildly with slight changes to gear, gems, enchants, etc. I was just curious if there is a good way (without trying all permutations) to find each best in slot item with EnhSim's to back up the choices per slot? Obviously you would follow the guidelines of capping hit, expertise, activating meta's with gems, etc. This also brings up questions such as, "Is t7/7.5 4-piece bonus worth x+y item's stats?"

It seems relatively intuitive to me that keeping the set pieces in the enhance tier would be highly recommended (as I've yet to sim a combination which vastly outperformed the set bonuses), but the question can still be asked without numerical comparison. Any methods or tools that might make such an endeavour simpler would be much appreciated, perhaps peer reviewing best in slot sets would help elucidate the best OH's in the same process.
#1224SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Vesham View Post
Would you be able to put in Magma totem for the simulator in the future by any chance? After the patch, I decided to use Magma totem in place of searing totem and my dps shot through the roof on Patchwerk. Here's a parse:

WoW Meter Online
You do realize that your dps shot through the roof mostly due to the new Windfury Glyph not from Magma Totem.

Magma Totem is maybe 40dps more then Searing Totem and costs 2 additional GCDs per minute to maintain (and about 3k additional mana per minute as well).

Windfury Attacks are up about 200dps with the glyph changes.

Spirit Wolf scaling also is playing a role and gaining you another 40 or so dps.
#1225SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Magma Totem is maybe 40dps more then Searing Totem and costs 2 additional GCDs per minute to maintain (and about 3k additional mana per minute as well).
What else are you doing with those GCDs?
#1226SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
What else are you doing with those GCDs?

My point wasn't that it isn't a dps increase, my point was that he was making it out like his dps went through the roof due to the new Magma totem and that clearly isn't true.
#1227SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
Let me rephrase my post. Would you be able to update the sim to match the current version of the game including Magma totem in the near future?

And as mana intensive as it is, I've had no problems with mana in a raid setting.
#1228SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
Would really like an update to EhnSim with the new versions of glyphs. But for the time being I'll just ask; is there any concensus on if the new WF glyph is better or worse than the old version? My gut is telling me its going to be roughly equivalent if not a little bit better than the old version if you are only MHing WF but not better if you are DWing it. My gut substituting for math at this point as I'm not sure how to work out the numbers around the 3 sec CD.

Also wondering how the new version of Lightning Bolt Glyph, +4% LB dmg stacks up. A cursory glance at some of my past exploits on some WWS reports of my damage spreads plus some napkin math suggests its not all that great but I'd like to get someone else's opinion/numbers as well.
#1229SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Your gut is totally wrong. The new glyph is definitely superior especially if you were DWing WF.
#1230SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Brynmor
Heh, I must be hungry. I didn't think that would be the case because when I was DWing WF I almost always had the CD up. Oh well, thats why I asked.

Edit: Not saying I don't believe you but whats the reasoning behind that? Just would like to know why I'm wrong and what my gut was apparently missing.

Last edited by Brynmor : 01/21/09 at 7:41 PM.
#1231SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Your gut is totally wrong. The new glyph is definitely superior especially if you were DWing WF.
Actually Malan you are wrong on this one. When dual wielding the glyph is garbage, it only becomes amazing when used on a single weapon.

Reason for this is that when Dual Wielding you have a 36% chance for a proc on every single hit which means you have a ~54% chance for a proc on every Stormstrike. Even before the new windfury totem I was getting procs every 4.7seconds on average during raid situations and with the addition of all that haste, and with a new offhand attack that can proc windfuries, you will be riding the cooldown with or without the glyph.

If you are level 80 and still using WF/WF you are better off using a different glyph (and getting a clue but that is something for another discussion).
#1232SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Reason for this is that when Dual Wielding you have a 36% chance for a proc on every single hit which means you have a ~54% chance for a proc on every Stormstrike.
And you're wrong as well - you have that chance on every hit outside the cooldown, not every single hit as you stated. I would additionally posit that adding another 5% when using SS is pretty significant since we believe that the MH gets to roll first on the WF proc.
#1233SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
I am with Malan concerning dual WF, especially as I stated same when the glyph was first introduced. Only question is however, what will dual WF proc rate be? I think best for sim would to give players option to overwrite both 1h and DW WF proc rates
#1234SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Atren View Post
I am with Malan concerning dual WF, especially as I stated same when the glyph was first introduced. Only question is however, what will dual WF proc rate be? I think best for sim would to give players option to overwrite both 1h and DW WF proc rates

Well Chalos agrees with you so you must be right.

Hopefully the sim will be updated to incorporate the new glyph and the other changes soon and then we can see what's what. But I have to say that I seriously doubt you will see WF/WF compete with WF/FT due to the new glyph.

Running the current Sim for WF/WF with matched Weapon speeds (to increase the likelihod of mainhand procs) and you get a proc every 4.78 seconds. With 4Naxx_melee, Flurry, WF Totem and 6% haste (which is about the lowest you can end up without gimping your gear) you have dropped your weapons down to 1.5 speed which means you are averaging 1 additional hit following the cooldown, do you really think the 5% is going to significantly increase that?

Trying unmatched weapons using a 2.6 and a 2.5 should increase the proc rate. According to the sim we go from a 12.55PPM to a 13.09PPM or a proc every 4.6 seconds. True, we lose about 50dps in the process from the increased incidence of offhand procs.


It also definitely would not be best for the sim to give players the option to overwrite anything. Start testing, figure out the proc chance outside of the cooldown with the glyph and report back so that it can be incorporated into the Sim. Just allowing people to stick random numbers into the Sim helps nobody. Having a sim with the right numbers helps everybody.

(if you aren't sure how to properly test the new proc rate with the glyph one simple way is just to use Lava Lash. Grab 2 weapons and imbue them both with WF, stand sideways to a level 60 targeting dummy so that autoattack is blocked and then use Lava Lash on every cooldown for awhile. After about 1000 of them determine your proc rate, should give very accurate results.)
#1235SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
I never stated WF/WF would beat WF/FT and unless i read wrong neither did Malan. Gap should be smaller altough. Point was the glyph improves dual WF damage opposed to many claiming it is negative.
#1236SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Zyla
This is a pretty retarded argument. Of course it improves wf/wf, which no one uses. The fact of the matter is that it is a much bigger buff for WF/FT, which you should be using anyway.

You're arguing to be right about something that is completely irrelevant.
#1237SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
Ok, I guess I need to be more precise.

In overall damage WF/FT will remain king most likely. Concerning the WF glyph it should offer bigger dps increase to WF/WF than to WF/FT probably however. Resulting gap between those two configuration to lessen.
#1238SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
What's the coef and interval on Magma totem? Eg. Searing totem interval is ~2.5s, not 2.0s.

If no one has any other info, I will put 4.8% crit reduction for white and 1.8% crit reduction for yellow attacks. Not gonna put any reduction for spells, because I don't have any info on them.
#1239SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
What's the coef and interval on Magma totem? Eg. Searing totem interval is ~2.5s, not 2.0s.

If no one has any other info, I will put 4.8% crit reduction for white and 1.8% crit reduction for yellow attacks. Not gonna put any reduction for spells, because I don't have any info on them.

Magma Totem is 2 second intervals with a 100% (10% per tick) coefficient.

Searing Totem is an 8% coefficient per attack and a 2.2 second casting time.


For those actually reading the entire thread, yes, I was wrong about Magma totem. Tested a bit last night and the fact that I was using wrathstrike in the parse boosted searing almost to the same damage as magma but in actual encounters using magma will be a significant source of dps provided you can sustain the mana for it.
#1240SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Magma Totem is 2 second intervals with a 100% (10% per tick) coefficient.

Searing Totem is an 8% coefficient per attack and a 2.2 second casting time.
Searing totem interval is actually ~2.5s, even you can see the casting time as 2.2s. Doesn't this kind of "lag" affect Magma totem at all?

And I think Searing totems coef is 16.6%.
#1241SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Searing totem interval is actually ~2.5s, even you can see the casting time as 2.2s. Doesn't this kind of "lag" affect Magma totem at all?

And I think Searing totems coef is 16.6%.
I was just going from the info on the wiki which seems to be in need of updating.

I just checked a WWS from a Naxx and Searing is indeed hitting every 2.5 seconds. Magma Totem is hitting every 2 seconds. Coefficient for Searing could be 16% but since I don't have a clear idea of my stats, due to raid buffs, I'm not sure.

One thing that was weird last night from playing with the dummies is that searing doesn't seem to use our spell crit values anymore. Mine was barely critting 5% of the time. Magma totem on the other hand seemed to be using my spell crit since it was critting very often.

19:58'52.359	Rouncer Magma Totem summons Magma Totem VII #1.
19:58'54.984	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #38 for 389 Fire.
19:58'54.984	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #36 for 918 Fire. (Critical)
19:58'54.984	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #35 for 439 Fire.
19:58'55.000	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Sartharion for 439 Fire.
19:58'57.062	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #39 for 259 Fire.
19:58'57.078	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #38 for 259 Fire.
19:58'57.078	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #37 for 259 Fire.
19:58'57.078	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #36 for 612 Fire. (Critical)
19:58'57.078	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #35 for 293 Fire.
19:58'57.078	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Sartharion for 612 Fire. (Critical)
19:58'59.140	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #39 for 259 Fire.
19:58'59.140	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #38 for 542 Fire. (Critical)
19:58'59.140	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #37 for 259 Fire.
19:58'59.156	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #36 for 293 Fire.
19:58'59.156	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #35 for 550 Fire. (Critical) (26 Resisted)
19:58'59.156	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Sartharion for 234 Fire. (52 Resisted)
19:59'01.031	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #39 for 259 Fire.
19:59'01.031	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #38 for 259 Fire.
19:59'01.031	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #37 for 542 Fire. (Critical)
19:59'01.031	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #36 for 263 Fire. (26 Resisted)
19:59'01.031	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #35 for 612 Fire. (Critical)
19:59'01.031	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Sartharion for 612 Fire. (Critical)
19:59'03.015	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #39 for 542 Fire. (Critical)
19:59'03.015	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #38 for 433 Fire. (Critical) (52 Resisted)
19:59'03.015	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #37 for 259 Fire.
19:59'03.031	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #36 for 612 Fire. (Critical)
19:59'03.031	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #35 for 293 Fire.
19:59'03.031	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Sartharion for 234 Fire. (52 Resisted)
19:59'05.109	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #39 for 352 Fire.
19:59'05.109	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #38 for 352 Fire.
19:59'05.109	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #37 for 661 Fire. (Critical) (31 Resisted)
19:59'05.109	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #35 for 734 Fire. (Critical)
19:59'05.125	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Sartharion for 281 Fire. (62 Resisted)
19:59'07.046	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #39 for 440 Fire.
19:59'07.046	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #37 for 439 Fire.
19:59'07.046	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #35 for 439 Fire.
19:59'07.046	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Sartharion for 395 Fire. (39 Resisted)
19:59'09.125	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #39 for 482 Fire.
19:59'09.125	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Lava Blaze #35 for 482 Fire.
19:59'09.125	Magma Totem VII #1 Magma Totem hits Sartharion for 907 Fire. (Critical) (43 Resisted)
19:59'09.140	Magma Totem VII #1 died.
That's just a short parse from that pre-patch WWS I was looking at, it shows the 2 second intervals pretty clearly.

So I guess that's 3 things that need testing now. The proc rate for the new Windfury glyph when using WF/WF, the coefficient for Searing Totem and whether the crit rate for searing/magma totem is affected by the shaman's spell crit value. I should have some time this afternoon to get those done.
#1242SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
But I have to say that I seriously doubt you will see WF/WF compete with WF/FT due to the new glyph.
Yah that's definitely not what I was implying at all, just more or less pointing out that for any shaman not yet at the level cap, and therefore probably still running dual WF, that the new glyph would still be an upgrade over the old one.
#1243SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
So what glyphs are you all suggesting with this new 1? currently im using the Ap Wf glyph, 8% ss dmg, and lightning shield glyph.
#1244SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Njald
Do the shock and awe correctly import set bonus if the set items are from different tier? (i.e. 200 and 213 itemlvl)
I can't seem to get it to recognize my items are being of same set when I do the import.

Anyone else having this issue?
#1245SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
[...] and whether the crit rate for searing/magma totem is affected by the shaman's spell crit value. I should have some time this afternoon to get those done.
Well, if they didn't change anything, both totems should inherit your spell crit value. Easy to see at Loatheb.
#1246SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Originally Posted by Njald View Post
Do the shock and awe correctly import set bonus if the set items are from different tier? (i.e. 200 and 213 itemlvl)
I can't seem to get it to recognize my items are being of same set when I do the import.

Anyone else having this issue?
Shock And Awe doesn't export set bonuses at all, which you probably should realize from the big "THIS IS NOT IMPLEMENTED" warning that it puts in the config.
#1247SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rounced
Did some testing.

Searing Totem 16.7% coefficient per attack
Magma Totem 10% coefficient per attack
WF/WF proc rate is 45.5% per weapon


Naked Parse with 139 spellpower and 2/3 Call of Fire
Wow Web Stats

In normal gear with 1096 spellpower with 2/3 Call of Fire
WWS Loading...

Normal gear, turned sideways, with the glyph - 200 LLs
WWS Loading...


Did a little playing around with Splintering. Looks like it does work as intended but even with a 3.8 speed weapon it's hard to really see much of an effect.

Last edited by Rounced : 01/23/09 at 10:51 AM.
#1248SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3MatsT
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
WF/WF proc rate is 40.5% per weapon
Old proccrate was 1-(1-0.2)^2 = 0.36

Logic says that the new procrate should be one of:
A: 1-(1-0.2+0.05)^2 = 0.4375
B: 1-(1-0.20)^2+0.05 = 0.41
C: 1-(1-0.2+0.05)*(1-0.2) = 0.4

A seems like the most intuitive way, though with enough data we should be able to say for sure.
#1249SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rounced
Originally Posted by MatsT View Post
A seems like the most intuitive way, though with enough data we should be able to say for sure.

Damn it, I blame a poor educational system for my inability to do simple division.

Thank you to the one who pmed me for being discrete about my lack of math skills.

122 hits + 60 crits = 182 windfury attacks = 91 procs / 200 hits = 45.5% proc rate.

Last edited by Rounced : 01/22/09 at 10:32 PM.
#1250SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
Proc rate is most likely 25+25*0,75=25+18,75=43,75 or A as you put it. 45,5 is not far from it so it does kinda support that.

Anyways, I think sim could have it (43,75% proc rate if have WF glyph) with option of giving manually proc rate for both WF and Dual WF. That would also allow to do some theorycrafting like for example how big should it be to catch FT
#1251SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Michmich
I have currently a resto spec, but i would like tu use the sim for a enh one.

1) Is there an option in the sim which, given the correct talents, would correct the value given by the paper doll with a 0/0/0 spec ?
For example, my gear gives me 10% hit, but Dual Wield Specialization would potentially gives me 6% more hit.

2) Is there an option in Shock and Awe to "negate" the effects on the paper doll of a current spec ?
For example, I have 5/5 in Ancestral Knowledge, but I would like to run the sim with only 3/5 AK. Is Shock and Awe able to correct my intellect ?

Maybe my question is irrelevant because respecing is relatively cheap today (but it would be a nice new feature anyway).

I also would like to have some explanations about ep_ap,ep_hit_rating,ep_expertise, etc.
When calculating EP values for hit rating, the sim add ep_hit_rating_ep to my current hit and recompute a fight (and the difference between the original dps and this one gives the ep value) ?
I cannot infer the best value in the config file. Is it the smallest one ?

Last edited by Michmich : 01/23/09 at 6:11 AM.
#1252SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Yes for DW spec no for things like Thundering Strikes, No, Yes and No.
#1253SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3panny
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Did some testing.

Searing Totem 16.7% coefficient per attack
Magma Totem 10% coefficient per attack
WF/WF proc rate is 45.5% per weapon


Naked Parse with 139 spellpower and 2/2 Call of Fire
Wow Web Stats

In normal gear with 1096 spellpower with 2/2 Call of Fire
WWS Loading...

Normal gear, turned sideways, with the glyph - 200 LLs
WWS Loading...


Did a little playing around with Splintering. Looks like it does work as intended but even with a 3.8 speed weapon it's hard to really see much of an effect.
Do you mean Call of Flame 2/3 or 3/3?
#1254SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by panny View Post
Do you mean Call of Flame 2/3 or 3/3?

Sorry 2/3, I'll edit the post.
#1255SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
The gains that magma totem got this patch are pretty crazy. I'd put it at a 300 DPS improvement over Searing Totem on single target dps. Several fights in Naxx last night it was my 3rd/4th highest source of damage.
#1256SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jonnaei
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
The gains that magma totem got this patch are pretty crazy. I'd put it at a 300 DPS improvement over Searing Totem on single target dps. Several fights in Naxx last night it was my 3rd/4th highest source of damage.
I noticed the same differences Malan, having subbed out my searing totem entirely for magma totem. This, also, with 0 points in call of flame.
#1257SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Sadly at 1/3 the duration and 4x the mana this totem isn't as great for any fight which is otherwise mana intensive in any way. We typically don't have mana issues, but any fight during which I cast more than one or two heals (Saph, Sarth, etc.) Magma was causing me to go OOM up to 20 seconds before SR was up. Magma might be good for certain single target DPS fights (Patchwerk) but for a lot of them we will have to stick with Searing.
#1258SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jonnaei
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
Sadly at 1/3 the duration and 4x the mana this totem isn't as great for any fight which is otherwise mana intensive in any way. We typically don't have mana issues, but any fight during which I cast more than one or two heals (Saph, Sarth, etc.) Magma was causing me to go OOM up to 20 seconds before SR was up. Magma might be good for certain single target DPS fights (Patchwerk) but for a lot of them we will have to stick with Searing.
The only fight I was unable to keep Magma totem up on last night for a full Naxx and EoE clear was Grobbulus. Raid-buffed and with replenishment I rarely go below 8k or 9k mana in my 14k mana pool with refreshing Magma totem every 15 seconds or so or earlier with a free GCD. Having to throw oneself heals isn't something I would take into consideration for a min/maxing perspective just like water shield is an atypical situation. It was not hard for me to keep magma totem active whatsoever with the exception of a few times I forgot to refresh it.... I'm still getting used to keeping it down. The only thing that will get me to use searing now is excessive movement.
#1259SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
ncervantes
I have a question regarding totems. Currently I'm using stonebreakers totem because it sim's higher than my totem of splintering. But with the recent change to windfury glyph, what are your thoughts on the totem of splintering. With that 5% chance to hit increase, will that in theory out perform the stonebreakers totem now?

Last edited by ncervantes : 01/23/09 at 1:25 PM.
#1260SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by jonnaei View Post
The only fight I was unable to keep Magma totem up on last night for a full Naxx and EoE clear was Grobbulus. Raid-buffed and with replenishment I rarely go below 8k or 9k mana in my 14k mana pool with refreshing Magma totem every 15 seconds or so or earlier with a free GCD. Having to throw oneself heals isn't something I would take into consideration for a min/maxing perspective just like water shield is an atypical situation. It was not hard for me to keep magma totem active whatsoever with the exception of a few times I forgot to refresh it.... I'm still getting used to keeping it down. The only thing that will get me to use searing now is excessive movement.
I would say throwing oneself a heal isn't atypical in a min/max raid, because one of the things being pushed off the roster is a often a healer. On 3 drake Sarth I use MW weapon for healing myself about once every 3-5 5 stacks, simply because we run with 2 healers and there are so many opportunities to take random damage. I suppose this change will be a YMMV type thing, situation use based on what the player feels is right, but I don't think anyone can argue that 1114 mana every 20 seconds is an insubstantial amount, that is 6684 mana every SR cooldown, or 1/2-1/3 a mana pool.
#1261SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
jonnaei
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
I would say throwing oneself a heal isn't atypical in a min/max raid, because one of the things being pushed off the roster is a often a healer. On 3 drake Sarth I use MW weapon for healing myself about once every 3-5 5 stacks, simply because we run with 2 healers and there are so many opportunities to take random damage. I suppose this change will be a YMMV type thing, situation use based on what the player feels is right, but I don't think anyone can argue that 1114 mana every 20 seconds is an insubstantial amount, that is 6684 mana every SR cooldown, or 1/2-1/3 a mana pool.
On 10-man 3D OS I can agree that you may need to throw a self heal now and then, though it helps to just stay out of Fire Walls and Void zones and have an uber pally tank for those adds. But I always have a ret pally and never really go below half of my mana pool so I'm pretty confident I have ample mana to throw heals. And on boss fights in general, I don't have any need to self-heal. I don't know if you lack a ret pally or what, but I am always very long on mana. Before the fix to magma totem I rarely burnt through 2k mana before SR came up and I can't imagine not having ample mana for off-heals.

BTW, when I say min/maxing it is referring to max output for typical situations and I would say, at least for my guild's raids, that having to heal myself is very atypical. There are outliers such as 3D sartharion, but for our general purposes magma totem is quite sustainable with our mana pools and regen (notice that there are no healing spells in the priority rotation on the sim). Burning through 6884 extra mana every 2 minutes is a non-issue on a boss fight when I end up with less than 8k or so mana in an SR cycle.

And I, unfortunately, don't run with an spriest; that would further nullify the mana argument.

Last edited by jonnaei : 01/23/09 at 4:11 PM.
#1262SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EndallUSDW
Alright so to me it seems the tread has sorta gotten off track a bit so I am gonna bump it in the right direction a tiny bit.

I've been running a lot sims lately and I've been getting a very high Expertise EP (~3.00+) value despite having way over what I need. Unless things have changed and I am not up on the uppity then from what I know is that I only need 6.5% expertise when hitting from the back, I currently have 8.25%. (Yes I know I have too much, but I am just preparing for other gear that will eventually even it out.)

Anyways here are my EP values:

baseline                                      5251.84
ap                        1.00      0.54      5273.43        21.59
crit rating               1.76      0.95      5270.80        18.95
hit rating                2.02      1.09      5273.66        21.82
expertise rating          3.17      1.71      5265.87        14.03
haste rating              1.58      0.85      5268.85        17.01
armor penetration rating  0.55      0.30      5257.78        5.94
spellpower                0.78      0.42      5261.97        10.12
mh dps                    6.37      3.44      5277.63        25.79
oh dps                    3.21      1.73      5264.83        12.99
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.89
intelligence              1.31
spirit                    0.01      0.00      5252.24        0.40
mana                      -0.00     -0.00     5251.83        -0.01
mp5                       0.29      0.16      5255.00        3.16
I've tried changing the EP values in the EnhSimGUI for expertise down to 1, but I get the same values. Only time it changes is if I move it to zero, in which case i get a zero value.
#1263SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by EndallUSDW View Post
Alright so to me it seems the tread has sorta gotten off track a bit so I am gonna bump it in the right direction a tiny bit.
Post your config file we can't tell you anything from what you have posted.

Last edited by Rouncer : 01/23/09 at 8:20 PM.
#1264SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
EndallUSDW
The EnhSimGUI Config?
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    1
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       250
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    500

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              SR

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               
shadow_resistance               

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.00/13.00
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            dalaran_clam_chowder
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         27.49
oh_crit                         27.49
mh_hit                          10.92
oh_hit                          10.92
mh_expertise_rating             33
oh_expertise_rating             33
ap                              3467
haste                           4.61
armor_penetration               0
str                             131
agi                             790
int                             447
spi                             0
spellpower                      1314
spell_crit                      19.97
spell_hit                       13.65
max_mana                        10821
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mark_of_norgannon
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    earth_shock

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   5/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

Last edited by EndallUSDW : 01/23/09 at 10:27 PM.
#1265SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Staticus
Expertise rating (~272 in your case) needs to be entered rather than the expertise value (33 in your case) you see on the paper doll.

Last edited by Staticus : 01/23/09 at 10:45 PM.
#1266SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Also this -
ep_expertise                    1
is bad unless you really know what you're doing.

Tukez I think that the EP steps need a big warning in the bundled config files as such:

*****************************
DO NOT FUCK WITH THIS SECTION
******************************
EP Step stuff
***********************************
FEEL FREE TO FUCK WITH ANYTHING ELSE
***********************************
#1267SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EndallUSDW
I see! Well I was putting in the "RATING" which is 33 not the expertise points. Only reason I fucked with that sections is because the values were not coming out how I knew they should be!
#1268SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
threat issues

In my latest Naxx run I was high on aggro during most of the boss fights.
I don't know if it's my guild's tanks that aren't very good, but I had to wind shock very often and even stop in certain situations.
Could be useful to add threat in the simulator (considering we have threat reduction on melee abilities and not on spells?)
#1269SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by EndallUSDW View Post
I see! Well I was putting in the "RATING" which is 33 not the expertise points. Only reason I fucked with that sections is because the values were not coming out how I knew they should be!
You do realize that it's 33 Expertise which breaks down to 272 Expertise Rating, right? Maybe you should go get a clue before spouting attitude.
#1270SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EndallUSDW
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
You do realize that it's 33 Expertise which breaks down to 272 Expertise Rating, right? Maybe you should go get a clue before spouting attitude.
Well I can say that you have enough attitude for the both of us, because I wasnt "sprouting" anything there killer. Chill. I hadn't noticed this before prior to your comment that the tool tip in the armory is different than the tool tip in game. If you scroll over the expertise stat in the armory it says that the "Expertise Rating" is the small number vs the ladder in game.
#1271SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Broshious
One question I have related to the expertise stuff, is why is the EP for expertise based on actual expertise points while you enter in rating? If you're one rating away from another expertise point will that throw off the expertise EP?
#1272SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Broshious View Post
One question I have related to the expertise stuff, is why is the EP for expertise based on actual expertise points while you enter in rating? If you're one rating away from another expertise point will that throw off the expertise EP?
Yes.

Expertise only works in steps so if you were to have the EP steps in rating and the rating change stuck you between two Expertise values then a chunk of it would be doing nothing. Meaning your EP values would be very inaccurate.

Read the TTT for a more indepth explanation, Shaman: Enhancement
#1273SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
I posted some of this a few pages back but at the time it was only PTR data and nothing official, but it is live now.

Engineering got a substantial boost in 3.0.8 making it a much more viable profession for min/maxing.

Hyperspeed Accelerators received about a 2.5x boost in effectiveness going from an 8 second duration/2 minute cooldown to 10 second duration/1 minute cooldown. The tooltip still says 2 minutes but the actual cooldown on the gloves is 60 seconds. Does not share a CD with trinkets so it can be popped in conjunction. Would be nice to simulate the actual use effect instead of just adding ~57 passive haste due to the strange WF chasm.

[Gnomish Lightning Generator] was changed to no longer interupt the swing timer making it substantially better for melee since it is also not on the GCD. It does have a 1 second cast or charge time however this "cast" can happen inside of the GCD of another ability, for example ES followed 1 second later by a GLG discharge, then a LL ~0.5sec later. Unfortunately does not get the benefit of storm strike but does receive benefits from other buffs/debuffs on the target and can crit (I saw ~30% crit rate over 60+ casts in the 10man I tried it in). Even with those changes I doubt it's worth much except for entry level raiding though.

[Saronite Bomb] is an interesting choice, esp for shamans, now that they've been made dirt cheap with [Box of Bombs]. They can crit and have a fairly large range and give us an occasional source of badly needed AOE damage (I've seen a 13mob hit for ~18k total). And like the above items they are also off the GCD, no cast time, and don't reset the swing timer, so even if you just have a single target, using them is a free pop for ~2k raid buffed/debuffed every 60 seconds.

The bulk of this might be better off in the TTT thread I'm not sure, the only update I'd request for the EnhSim would be the Hyperspeed Accelerators, I'm not sure if you've implemented the tailoring embroidery in there yet either but those would be valid to add as well, esp the melee cloak enchant. Effectively a 3rd (or 4th for engineer/tailors) trinket slot for these proc/use enchants.
#1274SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Urgok
Has anyone else noticed a disconnect between the expertise rating that you input and the melee dodge % in the output?

Specificaly;166 rating results in a dodged rate of .25%. That translates out to roughly 204 rating and not 166.

Also, the "over the expertise cap" message occurs at 182 rating and not 213.

Only looked at the MH and OH entries. Draenei shaman 5000 hours simulated time, version 1.5.

Edit...
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Expertise doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with miss to begin with, maybe that's your issue.
You are correct I have mislabeled things in my haste last night. I mistakenly put down Miss% when I meant to referenced attacks that had been dodged.

To be absolutely clear, if you input an Expertise rating of 166 and simulate for 5000 hours you get a dodged percentage of .25%, this roughs out to 204 rating and not 166 rating. Boss dodge percentage is 6.5 using the draenei setting.

I apologize for wasting a page of space, and decided to move my responses back here.

I was too busy to notice it at the time but the + Expertise value set under the EP tab is 4 not 32, so the over the cap message is inappropriate with your explanation.
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Is the message you get "EP expertise goes past cap with MH. EP expertise goes past cap with OH"

Notice the EP portion of that message?

If that is not the message then link your config file and I'm sure we'll be able to tell you what you are doing wrong. If that is the message you are getting and you still don't understand what is going on then I can't help you because eugenics is considered unethical in most countries.
I am not attempting to get advice here, I think I've found a bug. Or I do not understand fully how the simulator works, perhaps it is assigning extra rating. I don't know. I have not changed any values aside from the character input, and the simulation time.

Last edited by Urgok : 01/25/09 at 8:07 PM.
#1275SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Urgok View Post
Has anyone else noticed a disconnect between the expertise rating that you input and the melee miss % in the output?

Specificaly;166 rating results in a miss rate of .25%. That translates out to roughly 204 rating and not 166.

Also, the "over the expertise cap" message occurs at 182 rating and not 213.

Only looked at the MH and OH entries. Draenei shaman 5000 hours simulated time, version 1.5.
182 + 32 (4 Expertise) = 214 = capped
#1276SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Urgok
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
182 + 32 (4 Expertise) = 214 = capped
Where's the 32 coming from?
#1277SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Urgok View Post
Where's the 32 coming from?
Your EP value setting. That's how EPs work. They add that much to your stats and see what difference it makes to your dps. Your EP step is taking you to the cap which is why you are getting that message.
#1278SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Urgok
So your saying that the EP values under the EP tab are applied to the output of the program when I hit the Simulate button?
#1279SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Urgok View Post
So your saying that the EP values under the EP tab are applied to the output of the program when I hit the Simulate button?
Is the message you get "EP expertise goes past cap with MH. EP expertise goes past cap with OH"

Notice the EP portion of that message?

If that is not the message then link your config file and I'm sure we'll be able to tell you what you are doing wrong. If that is the message you are getting and you still don't understand what is going on then I can't help you because eugenics is considered unethical in most countries.
#1280SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
Originally Posted by Urgok View Post
So your saying that the EP values under the EP tab are applied to the output of the program when I hit the Simulate button?
Its because of the way the simulator calculates the EP values. If you go the EP range and look at the numbers, let's use crit rating for this example, mine says 30 for the EP range. What that means is that the sim adds 30 crit rating to my character, figures out how much of a DPS increase that 30 crit was and then tells me how much each point of crit will increase my dps.

So in the case of your expertise rating even if you are under cap if your Expertise EP range is high enough it will tell you that you are over the cap because its adding that amount of Expertise to your character in the simulation. SO, if you get that message when you are under the cap decrease the Expertise EP range incrementily until you no longer get the over cap message.

Hope that helps.
#1281SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Urgok
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Is the message you get "EP expertise goes past cap with MH. EP expertise goes past cap with OH"

Notice the EP portion of that message?

If that is not the message then link your config file and I'm sure we'll be able to tell you what you are doing wrong. If that is the message you are getting and you still don't understand what is going on then I can't help you because eugenics is considered unethical in most countries.
Ah ok, that does make sense now. That still has nothing too do with the disconnect between the stated expertise value and the actual miss % on MH and OH attacks. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the over the cap message since it apparently has completely derailed the important thing.
#1282SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Expertise doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with miss to begin with, maybe that's your issue.
#1283SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Expertise doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with miss to begin with, maybe that's your issue.
I agree cause sxpertise has to do with dodges and parries and nothing to do with miss %

Any word on the new Sim yet as i dont have my lagfree comp atm i cant do any live testing so i know whether to enchant this murder or not
#1284SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Urgok
I corrected the errors in the initial post.
#1285SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kaaji1359
Question on EnhSim

Hey... I love the SIM BTW!

OK so two things:

1) First off, I've applied all the buffs and all of my stats, yet everytime I run "Simulate," my DPS drops by about 400-500 b/c it says that I have 17% out of mana uptime. Now this doesn't make any sense, as with all the buffs from 25mans it is literally impossible for me to run out of mana (Patchwerk for example, which is must like EnhSim). Why is it saying this, and is there a way to negate this "out of mana uptime" that lowers my DPS?

2) How do you come up with the EP amounts to add to your stats to obtain the EP values? Sometimes I think they seem a bit off... 200 AP added doesn't seem to be equivalent to 30 crit. I'm just wondering where these values were obtained?

Thanks!
#1286SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
Originally Posted by Kaaji1359 View Post
Hey... I love the SIM BTW!

OK so two things:

1) First off, I've applied all the buffs and all of my stats, yet everytime I run "Simulate," my DPS drops by about 400-500 b/c it says that I have 17% out of mana uptime. Now this doesn't make any sense, as with all the buffs from 25mans it is literally impossible for me to run out of mana (Patchwerk for example, which is must like EnhSim). Why is it saying this, and is there a way to negate this "out of mana uptime" that lowers my DPS?

2) How do you come up with the EP amounts to add to your stats to obtain the EP values? Sometimes I think they seem a bit off... 200 AP added doesn't seem to be equivalent to 30 crit. I'm just wondering where these values were obtained?

Thanks!
Did you put SR as first priority in your rotation? Meaning most important to use and it will only use it if you have 700 mana left
#1287SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Generic stat ep value calcualtion:
Stat EP = [(new dps - old dps) / ep step] / (dps per ap)
#1288SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Kaaji1359 View Post
2) How do you come up with the EP amounts to add to your stats to obtain the EP values? Sometimes I think they seem a bit off... 200 AP added doesn't seem to be equivalent to 30 crit. I'm just wondering where these values were obtained?
That isn't what the EP step in the config file means at all. Did you read the wikidot for EnhSim that Tukez created?
#1289SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kaaji1359
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
That isn't what the EP step in the config file means at all. Did you read the wikidot for EnhSim that Tukez created?
Wow I feel retarded about not putting SR in my rotation. Sorry to waste your time with that question.

Really? I thought that it would calculate DPS, then add whatever AP/crit/etc. that's in the config to your stats and then calculate DPS, and do the formula above? But no, I did not read Tukez's wikidot... I know it's somewhere above, but 50+ pages is a lot to go through Would you mind giving a link?

Thanks
#1290SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EndallUSDW
I have SR at the bottom of my rotation. I don't think it matter so much where its placed so long as it is in there. I am only out of mana usually around 1.7% of the time.
#1291SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
e30Birdy
I have SR at the top of my rotation du to the fact that it is the most important thing in my rotation cause the fact that without many even if its 1,7% its a huge loss in dps.

Putting it at the top means it has the highest priority if you have below 700 mana and will only be used then.

I am out of mana 0% on Sim.

Last edited by e30Birdy : 01/26/09 at 8:56 AM.
#1292SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
You could also just turn off mana simulation and then we wouldn't be having this discussion. (for the umpteenth time)
#1293SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
Malan sorry i always forget to recommend that option.
#1294SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
EndallUSDW
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
I have SR at the top of my rotation du to the fact that it is the most important thing in my rotation cause the fact that without many even if its 1,7% its a huge loss in dps.

Putting it at the top means it has the highest priority if you have below 700 mana and will only be used then.

I am out of mana 0% on Sim.
Hummm... still gave me .88% out of mana at best. Only a 1dps difference as well.

Last edited by EndallUSDW : 01/26/09 at 1:55 PM.
#1295SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rawrr
I have 382 hit rating so why does it say that "EP hit goes past cap with spells?" Is this distorting my EP for hit? 446 is spell hit cap. I'm using 30 as my hit rating EP range.
#1296SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Because you probably also have "I have a shadow priest" indicated in the config file.
#1297SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EndallUSDW
All it is telling you is that you are capped out on spell hit because the hit cap for spell is 356. As soon as you hit that 356 hit rating the EP values for are going to go down. Instead of having both spell and melee benefit from hit, only its only melee. At this point start geming for AP because you will get more out of it. With an EP value less than 2.0 for any stat you will get more out of a 32ap gem than a 16hit/expert/crit gem.
#1298SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by EndallUSDW View Post
All it is telling you is that you are capped out on spell hit because the hit cap for spell is 356.
No, that's not true at all. Stop giving out advice if you don't know basic things like that.
#1299SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EndallUSDW
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
No, that's not true at all. Stop giving out advice if you don't know basic things like that.
Okay then, why don't you give some constructive criticism then.

As far as I am aware, raid buffed with a shadow priest , 356hit is your goal.
#1300SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
He did, in the post directly above yours.
#1301SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
Hit rating required is 367 with IFF (moonkin talent) or Misery (shadowpriest talent). Taken from: Shaman: Enhancement

17% - 446 -- Nothing
16% - 420 -- Draenei
14% - 367 -- IFF or Misery
13% - 341 -- Draenei with IFF or Misery
#1302SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
As you can see, I have no idea where you were pulling 356 from.
#1303SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.5.6

1.5.6
-Added talent Shamanism. Adds 0.1 to LB coef and 0.2 to LvB coef with max rank.
-Unrelenting Storm and Storm, Earth and Fire talent's max ranks reduced to 3.
-LvB doesn't reset swing timer if have any MW stack.
-Windfury glyph now increases WF proc chance by 5%.
-Glyph of Lightning bold now increases LB damage by 4%.
-Flame Shock's dot is not affected by spell/fire damage bonuses gotten after the cast.
-Judgement of Wisdom procs from spell damage too. Mana return is 2% from base mana.
-Trinket Thunder Capacitor added.
-Default miss chance lowered to 8%.
-Magma totem added. Config option for rotations is MT.
-Crit reduction implemented. 4.8% for white attacks and 1.8% for yellow.
-ES_SS rotation option added. Cast ES only if there are Stormstrike charges left.

For compiling, boost library is included. Hope it works now.
#1304SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Tronso
Thanks for the update Tukez

Enh_Sim is crashing when I add ES_SS to the rotation

Edited - My bad, forgot to change path to the new enhsim.exe

Last edited by Tronso : 01/27/09 at 12:51 PM.
#1305SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
I'm still having issues with bandit's insignia, no clue what could cause the problem, any ideas or fix or something?
Config:
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         75
max_lag                         125
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   12
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              2.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    6
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       1
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    2
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       800
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    200

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              ST
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           11000
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               
shadow_resistance               

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 144/144
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          156.5
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         29.67
oh_crit                         29.67
mh_hit                          12.53
oh_hit                          12.53
mh_expertise_rating             216
oh_expertise_rating             216
ap                              3452
haste                           2.99
armor_penetration               2.08
str                             141
agi                             723
int                             349
spi                             161
spellpower                      1035
spell_crit                      22.37
spell_hit                       15.67
max_mana                        12000
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       axe
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        bandits_insignia
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    earth_shock

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                2/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Output:
arcane_resistance not found from config.
shadow_resistance not found from config.
................................................................................

MH:
miss                2356252        9.46%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            6220540        24.98%
hit                 5082566        20.41%
crit                11242132       45.15%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.16%
procs/swings        14.83%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 4429110        51.94%
crit                4098558        48.06%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1997158        52.00%
crit                1843500        48.00%

OH:
miss                2456045        9.46%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            6485928        24.99%
hit                 5292607        20.39%
crit                11719611       45.15%

OH Windfury:
procs/hits          13.34%
procs/swings        12.40%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 4487002        51.81%
crit                4174126        48.19%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1993612        51.91%
crit                1847046        48.09%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3092563        58.63%
crit                2181733        41.37%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2648488        51.57%
crit                2487033        48.43%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3398489        58.66%
crit                2394776        41.34%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 5200923        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 53.73

flurry uptime                  89.50%
unleashed rage uptime          100.00%
elemental devastation uptime   79.13%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              36.34%
oh enchant uptime              41.22%
trinket1 uptime                0.00%
trinket2 uptime                18.34%
totem uptime                   48.89%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 0.00      0.00%
replenishment       0.00      0.00%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      100.00%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1747.85   -0.44%    84.76
windfury            1150.45   -0.28%    14.32
stormstrike         306.37    -0.07%    6.40      35.27     18.40%
lava lash           151.17    -0.03%    8.56      23.58     12.30%
searing totem       294.83    -0.07%    1.10      5.30      2.77%
earth shock         529.90    -0.13%    8.79      56.81     29.63%
lightning bolt      777.89    -0.19%    9.66      70.74     36.90%
lightning shield    230.32    -0.05%    1.19      0.00      0.00%
misc                -395290.22101.33%   1.25

DPS                 -390101.43
MPS                 191.70
MP2min              23003.44
MRPS                9.23
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 23.57s
simulation speed: 1527170x
#1306SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
1.5.6
-Added talent Shamanism. Adds 0.1 to LB coef and 0.2 to LvB coef with max rank.
-Unrelenting Storm and Storm, Earth and Fire talent's max ranks reduced to 3.
-LvB doesn't reset swing timer if have any MW stack.
-Windfury glyph now increases WF proc chance by 5%.
-Glyph of Lightning bold now increases LB damage by 4%.
-Flame Shock's dot is not affected by spell/fire damage bonuses gotten after the cast.
-Judgement of Wisdom procs from spell damage too. Mana return is 2% from base mana.
-Trinket Thunder Capacitor added.
-Default miss chance lowered to 8%.
-Magma totem added. Config option for rotations is MT.
-Crit reduction implemented. 4.8% for white attacks and 1.8% for yellow.
-ES_SS rotation option added. Cast ES only if there are Stormstrike charges left.

For compiling, boost library is included. Hope it works now.
Did you have a chance to update the Earth Shock glyph to the new version, Shocking? Where is reduces the GCD of all shocks to 1 second.
#1307SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Aximous View Post
I'm still having issues with bandit's insignia, no clue what could cause the problem, any ideas or fix or something?

Output:
arcane_resistance not found from config.
shadow_resistance not found from config.
You are missing these from the config.
#1308SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Did you have a chance to update the Earth Shock glyph to the new version, Shocking? Where is reduces the GCD of all shocks to 1 second.
No I didn't. Does the GCD ever go under 1s?
#1309SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
No I didn't. Does the GCD ever go under 1s?
Nope. The GCD is locked at 1 second either with the glyph or with a ton of haste or with both, it won't go below 1 second (and, for the peanut gallery, yes I tested it with Bloodlust too).
#1310SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Tukez did you also incorporate all the changes that made the sim compatible with OS X?
#1311SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EndallUSDW
Originally Posted by Vesham View Post
He did, in the post directly above yours.
Mmmmhmmm... thanks for the warm welcome to the forums.

Originally Posted by Atren View Post
Hit rating required is 367 with IFF (moonkin talent) or Misery (shadowpriest talent). Taken from: Shaman: Enhancement

17% - 446 -- Nothing
16% - 420 -- Draenei
14% - 367 -- IFF or Misery
13% - 341 -- Draenei with IFF or Misery
Thanks Atren.

I honestly have no idea where I got the 356 hit rating, but either way, the logic is the same. Seems I was just mixed up. I'd assume that with 367+hit rating and Misery that you would get the "EP hit goes past cap with spells?" regardless, which at that point you would gem for AP so long as no EP value was over 2.0?
#1312SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
You are missing these from the config.
Hehe, never thought about that those would matter anyway as with all the other trinkets I tried it was working perfectrly, anyhow adding those made it working so thanks for pointing it out. Meanwhile I figured that it's beacause BI is arcane damage and without arcane res it crashes, shame I couldn't think about this before.
#1313SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3darkInertia
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
1.5.6
-Added talent Shamanism. Adds 0.1 to LB coef and 0.2 to LvB coef with max rank.
-Unrelenting Storm and Storm, Earth and Fire talent's max ranks reduced to 3.
-LvB doesn't reset swing timer if have any MW stack.
-Windfury glyph now increases WF proc chance by 5%.
-Glyph of Lightning bold now increases LB damage by 4%.
-Flame Shock's dot is not affected by spell/fire damage bonuses gotten after the cast.
-Judgement of Wisdom procs from spell damage too. Mana return is 2% from base mana.
-Trinket Thunder Capacitor added.
-Default miss chance lowered to 8%.
-Magma totem added. Config option for rotations is MT.
-Crit reduction implemented. 4.8% for white attacks and 1.8% for yellow.
-ES_SS rotation option added. Cast ES only if there are Stormstrike charges left.

For compiling, boost library is included. Hope it works now.
Did LvB revert to be viable for enh shaman with MW? I didn't see anything in the patch notes or on any posts on these forums either.
#1314SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by darkInertia View Post
Did LvB revert to be viable for enh shaman with MW? I didn't see anything in the patch notes or on any posts on these forums either.
Page 43 of this thread has some discussion on LvB behavior with Maelstrom Weapon. No conclusions were made about its viability for enhancement shaman though.
#1315SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by darkInertia View Post
Did LvB revert to be viable for enh shaman with MW? I didn't see anything in the patch notes or on any posts on these forums either.
Only works if you are using an single weapon with a very slow swing timer. If the cast time intersects either swing time then the swing timer is reset.

It does mean that if you are using a shield in PvP and your mainhand is really slow (and it should always be slow) you could weave a Lava Burst between the swing timer for additional dps but the timing is so tight that it really is only of theoretical interest and probably will not work well in actual practice.

It potentially could be used for an extreme burst attack if you were using a very slow 2-hander. Where you could have a target stunned, hit them with a Flame Shock while moving into melee range and then hit with the 2hander then cast a Lava Burst and then use a Stormstrike. The Lava Burst would crit at the same moment as another white hit along with the stormstrike. Which should be pretty devastating if you can get the timing right, especially if either of the white attacks or the Stormstrike happens to proc a windfury. With a slow 2-hander you may not even need to have a MW charge up before you start since a 3.8 2-hander would have a 63% chance to gain a charge on that initial white hit.

(as you can tell I've been having fun thinking about how to make that all work together in PvP for awhile now)
#1316SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Only works if you are using an single weapon with a very slow swing timer. If the cast time intersects either swing time then the swing timer is reset.
Just to be clear: the swing timer isn't reset if the cast time intersects the swing. The swing timer continues as if nothing happened, but you miss out on the swings that would have happened during the cast. I view a reset as the swing timer starting at 0 when the cast completes.

Here's the example from earlier in the thread of cast time clipping the swing:
1.81 sec cast Lava Burst (using WoA to speed up the cast so it's less likely to clip)
3.52 sec swing time

1x Maelstrom, timed to clip:
12/18 10:05:52.958 SWING_DAMAGE
12/18 10:05:53.211 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,"Maelstrom Weapon",0x1,BUFF
12/18 10:05:55.931 SPELL_CAST_START,"Lava Burst"
12/18 10:05:57.748 SPELL_DAMAGE,"Lava Burst"
12/18 10:05:59.766 SWING_DAMAGE
This matches the swing timer free running, and the swing getting clipped.
first_swing + 2 * swing_time = 05:52.96 + 2 * 3.52 = 06:00.00
If the swing timer reset on intersection it would look like this:
05:55.931 + 1.81 + 3.52 = 6:01.261

Anyway, I believe the sim models this correctly now (I'll double check tonight).
#1317SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Tukez did you also incorporate all the changes that made the sim compatible with OS X?
Yeah, those changes are in. It hasn't been tested with the included boost library though.
#1318SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Yah I'm not able to get it to compile at the moment, it's complaining that it can't find the boost lib no matter where I seem to put it. Working on it though.
#1319SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
grouch
Regarding ES_SS...

Answered in another thread.

http://elitistjerks.com/1043881-post1162.html

Last edited by grouch : 01/28/09 at 6:37 AM. Reason: Answered in another thread.
#1320SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Did the identifying of items (eg: trinkets) by item id make it into this build?
#1321SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
ncervantes
I feel as if I may be doing something wrong. I installed the new EnhSim and ran a few tests on rotations. My dps actually goes up if my priority is MW5_LB > ES_SS > ES > SS, over MW5_LB > ES_SS > SS > ES. This essentially makes ES_SS worthless. Can anyone tell me if I am doing something wrong?



simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES_SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              MT
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              SR

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.98
oh_crit                         30.98
mh_hit                          10.77
oh_hit                          10.77
mh_expertise_rating             211
oh_expertise_rating             211
ap                              3766
haste                           4.15
armor_penetration               2
str                             129
agi                             816
int                             508
spi                             153
spellpower                      1129
spell_crit                      23.52
spell_hit                       13.46
max_mana                        11736
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        sphere_of_red_dragons_blood

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Last edited by ncervantes : 01/28/09 at 3:43 PM.
#1322SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tronso
Originally Posted by ncervantes View Post
I feel as if I may be doing something wrong. I installed the new EnhSim and ran a few tests on rotations. My dps actually goes up if my priority is MW5_LB > ES_SS > ES > SS, over MW5_LB > ES_SS > SS > ES. This essentially makes ES_SS worthless. Can anyone tell me if I am doing something wrong?
I have imp stormstrike 2/2 and I've actually seen a few rare cases of all 4 charges getting eaten up with earth shock off CD before stormstrike CD came back up. I'm guessing it was from back to back Static Shock procs

This might explain what you're seen here
#1323SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ncervantes
Originally Posted by Tronso View Post
I have imp stormstrike 2/2 and I've actually seen a few rare cases of all 4 charges getting eaten up with earth shock off CD before stormstrike CD came back up. I'm guessing it was from back to back Static Shock procs

This might explain what you're seen here
I highly doubt the sim will duplicate that scenario consistantly.
#1324SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
I might be able to explain this. On longer fights, as you settle into a general spell rotation. If your MW_LB aren't interfering with your SS or ES cooldowns for a little while, you'll notice that ES will consistently come up 0.5s of less before SS. Using SS as a strict priority, this will lock your ES into an 8s CD, which will lower your DPS. If you sneak that ES in just before your SS, you push back the SS for 1-1.5s, but you unsync the CDs, and it lets you use ES on the 6s CD again. Depending on the frequency of MW procs, it sometimes takes care of this for you, but it is something I've noticed from wailing on bosses week in week out. Hope this helps.
#1325SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Tukez, would it be possible to include the Engineering Glove enchants as options under "misc items" on the "Consumables and Buffs" panel of the GUI?

The specifics of the Glove Enchants are

Hyperspeed Accelerators - Spell - World of Warcraft

Except that the cooldown is 1 minute not 2 minutes (so 340 haste rating for 10 seconds every minute, can be synced with bloodlust along with trinkets)

and

Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket - Spell - World of Warcraft

The pyro rocket counts as a physical attack doing double damage on crits (affected by relentless meta) and the attack activates the GCD. Does not scale with AP or Spellpower.
#1326SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
ncervantes
Originally Posted by Nevets_69 View Post
I might be able to explain this. On longer fights, as you settle into a general spell rotation. If your MW_LB aren't interfering with your SS or ES cooldowns for a little while, you'll notice that ES will consistently come up 0.5s of less before SS. Using SS as a strict priority, this will lock your ES into an 8s CD, which will lower your DPS. If you sneak that ES in just before your SS, you push back the SS for 1-1.5s, but you unsync the CDs, and it lets you use ES on the 6s CD again. Depending on the frequency of MW procs, it sometimes takes care of this for you, but it is something I've noticed from wailing on bosses week in week out. Hope this helps.
That makes sense but shouldn't ES_SS take care of that problem since it should override SS if ES comes up before SS charges are consumed?

Last edited by ncervantes : 01/28/09 at 6:05 PM.
#1327SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
It would, unless your SS charges are always being consumed, not sure how, but would explain the behavior.
#1328SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Duscha
Are there any plans about integrating Feral Spirit into the sim?

By the way what's the top DPS on Patchwerk so far seen?
#1329SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Artoxia
@Duscha:

Wow Web Stats

i think you'll find some good numbers there
#1330SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
Rough night for us, new recruits. I did get D/C'd on gothik and unfortunate web wraps on Maexx, but here is some additional magma totem feedback for anyone still not convinced by the other posts going around.

Wow Web Stats

I mean it is seriously screaming nerf right now for 25's where mana isn't an issue, a little more difficult to pull off in 10s though. Enhance DPS was already pretty damn good and this kind of just.. yah... I feel like we're about to feel some nerfs! QQ
#1331SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3falonub
Originally Posted by Duscha View Post
Are there any plans about integrating Feral Spirit into the sim?

By the way what's the top DPS on Patchwerk so far seen?
Wow Meter Online seems to be a pretty, relatively new site similar to what wws scoreboard was.

WMO - Shaman Page is all the fights currently available and the shaman dps.
#1332SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by kaoticz View Post
Rough night for us, new recruits. I did get D/C'd on gothik and unfortunate web wraps on Maexx, but here is some additional magma totem feedback for anyone still not convinced by the other posts going around.

Wow Web Stats

I mean it is seriously screaming nerf right now for 25's where mana isn't an issue, a little more difficult to pull off in 10s though. Enhance DPS was already pretty damn good and this kind of just.. yah... I feel like we're about to feel some nerfs! QQ
Are you serious?
Magma totem is +3% dps over searing at single target fight if there is no movement at all. It cost extra 235mp5. If you have to redrop it all the time then you will lose GCD or totem uptime (extra mana also) and both hurts overall dps. Your WWS show that you used magma totem with very good uptime and that lowered your other attacks like lightning bolt damage greatly.

Magma totem is great for patcwerk if you got gear for sustain it but it's not that hot at all when there is even little movement. Maybe they should fix searing totem if they want wood imp to be better for single targets.
#1333SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Windgyver
Hi everybody. I read EJ forums on Enhancement Shaman since almost a year now.
Let me introduce myself a little, I'm a french programmer since 10 years. I wrote myself a Simulator for Enh Shamans too since at the time I did it I wasn't satistied by the existing ones. And it lets you do some fun stuff like changing the WF proc chance to see the DPS increase ;o).

But (there is always a but ^^), I now use yours since it's ok for me and more user friendly with the GUI. However I have noticed a bug in the Lava lash computation. Your lava lash damage is way lower what it should be. Simply because if you trace the code you apply mitigation from armor to LL damage. Or LL damage is fire damage and shoudn't suffer from physical mitigation.

And by the way, sorry if my English is not so good ;o).
#1334SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Fola
First off thanks for the simulator I really enjoy it and appreciate the effort put into making it available to use. I am sure it is something rather simple that I am missing, but it relates to the latest revision of the simulator. I noticed you added the thunder_capacitor in the pulldown menu of the gui. When I select the thunder_capacitor as one of the trinkets and run the simulator the first line of the output returns "trinket thunder_capacitor not found". Just curious if this is a known problem that has a simple fix.
#1335SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Psychodays
Nevermind

Last edited by Psychodays : 01/29/09 at 10:17 AM.
#1336SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
Originally Posted by Windgyver View Post
But (there is always a but ^^), I now use yours since it's ok for me and more user friendly with the GUI. However I have noticed a bug in the Lava lash computation. Your lava lash damage is way lower what it should be. Simply because if you trace the code you apply mitigation from armor to LL damage. Or LL damage is fire damage and shoudn't suffer from physical mitigation.
Have you also seen, whether it is benefiting from magic dam debuffs on the mob, like Ebon Plague?
#1337SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tronso
Originally Posted by Fola View Post
First off thanks for the simulator I really enjoy it and appreciate the effort put into making it available to use. I am sure it is something rather simple that I am missing, but it relates to the latest revision of the simulator. I noticed you added the thunder_capacitor in the pulldown menu of the gui. When I select the thunder_capacitor as one of the trinkets and run the simulator the first line of the output returns "trinket thunder_capacitor not found". Just curious if this is a known problem that has a simple fix.
It sounds like its using the wrong enhsim.exe
You can change it by editing the path down in the lower right corner just above the Donate button
#1338SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Fola
Originally Posted by Tronso View Post
It sounds like its using the wrong enhsim.exe
You can change it by editing the path down in the lower right corner just above the Donate button
Ah I bet it is somehow referencing the old exe I have both of them on my computer but I bet I didn't update the path to reference the new one, I bet that is it.


Thanks! will give it a try after work.
#1339SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
I was playing around with chardev for a few hours looking for easy upgrades and simmed my gear right now and tried totem of hex and dps was 1 less then with my totem of dueling, then i changed a few pieces of my gear and decided to try totem of hex with these changes and Totem Of Hex was accually a huge upgrade there.

I also simmed Angry Dead with my gear right now and getting lower numbers then with my Sinister's Revenge, and playing around with glyphs finding that LS, SS, WF is still best for me at the moment so no changes there. I also still found the Webbed Death is best in slot for me.
#1340SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Windgyver
Originally Posted by SentinelBorg View Post
Have you also seen, whether it is benefiting from magic dam debuffs on the mob, like Ebon Plague?
I remember I saw some magical damage multiplicator but I didn't look how it was computed. The only thing I was searching for was the mitigation problem I found ^^.
#1341SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3IMB111
I have a question concerning [Thunder Capacitor]. I wondered how do you exactly calculate the damage of the trinket in the sim, because I noticed some differences between the wording of the tooltip and what's actually happening ingame.
The tooltip says, that you release the bolt when you get four charges, but ingame you release the bolt when you got four charges on the next spellcrit. Furthermore the tooltip says, that you can only get one charge every 2,5 seconds, which isn't true because I got 133 charges at Loatheb in a 3:42 min fight. (1 charge per 1,67 sec)
#1342SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by IMB111 View Post
I have a question concerning [Thunder Capacitor]. I wondered how do you exactly calculate the damage of the trinket in the sim, because I noticed some differences between the wording of the tooltip and what's actually happening ingame.
The tooltip says, that you release the bolt when you get four charges, but ingame you release the bolt when you got four charges on the next spellcrit. Furthermore the tooltip says, that you can only get one charge every 2,5 seconds, which isn't true because I got 133 charges at Loatheb in a 3:42 min fight. (1 charge per 1,67 sec)
The sim adds a charge for each spell crit (including flametongue). On the 4th charge it releases a Lightning bolt, and imposes a 2.5 second cooldown before you can start building charges again.

It looks like the might have been a change in the behavior of the trinket in the patch. This is what the combatlog looked like before patch 3.0.8:
20:00'58.751 Tramana gains Thunder Charge.
20:00'59.940 Tramana gains Thunder Charge (2).
20:01'00.760 Tramana gains Thunder Charge (3).
20:01'01.801 Tramana Lightning Bolt hits Archavon the Stone Watcher for 1254 Nature. (139 Resisted)
and now:
20:03'52.236 Tramana gains Thunder Charge.
20:03'53.178 Tramana gains Thunder Charge (2).
20:03'53.691 Tramana gains Thunder Charge (3).
20:03'54.122 Tramana gains Thunder Charge (4).
20:03'56.331 Tramana Lightning Bolt hits Archavon the Stone Watcher for 1048 Nature. (262 Resisted)
Since they nerfed the trinket we probably want to retest all of its mechanics to see where it stands now.
#1343SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rublik
deleted

Last edited by Rublik : 01/30/09 at 8:33 PM.
#1344SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
Can someone please tell me why i am getting negative values for haste? Here is my config for EP.


ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    1
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20
#1345SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
Can someone please tell me why i am getting negative values for haste? Here is my config for EP.
From the TTT Shaman: Enhancement

During simulation though you will notice that as you approach 1.5 weapon speed when using windfury that the value of haste will decrease sharply. This will continue to occur until you have enough passive haste to push your weapon speed beyond that slight dip. This occurs when the sim finds that adding haste pushes you into speeds where windfury procs are reduced because of swing times.
The dip is something that is only encountered in the perfect world of a simulator and doesn't really occur in game due to the inconsistencies of latency and the way the server seems to handle things (there is a thread about the windfury cooldown if you are curious and would like more info). Just change EP_haste_rating to a negative number and it should give you a more accurate value for haste EP.
#1346SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Just change EP_haste_rating to a negative number and it should give you a more accurate value for haste EP.
So should i change this number to -30 then to go the postive value for the haste value? At the moment it is coming out as -1.26 if i remember right, and i have to add all values to my pawn per hand cause i get a error opening the text file when i calculate the EP on this laptop for some reason i havent been able to figure out yet.
#1347SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3supermantwo
ok why is the enhsim saying that I'm over the expertise and hit cap when I'm not!?

I've posted a screen of what it looks like here:

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: namnlsxt7.jpg

and here is my config.txt

#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			10000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				150	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				300	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			0	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		2	//{ 0 | 1 | 2 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		5
rotation_priority1		MW5_LB
rotation_priority2		SS
rotation_priority3		ES
rotation_priority4		LL
rotation_priority5		MT
rotation_priority6		LL
rotation_priority7		LS



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			25.00	//%
armor				13083	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		3925/3925		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		1260/1260		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	2.0/2.0		//%, bloody frenzy, 2nd talent spec TBA
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		688/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	99.7/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	10.0/10.0	//%, improved scorch, winter's chill
spell_damage_debuff		13.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of elements, totem of wrath
spellpower_buff			280/280		//focus magic, improved divine spirit, flametongue totem, demonic pact
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			3.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	3.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			52/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		178/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			60/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			elixir_of_major_agility
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				fish_feast
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }

misc_item			drums_of_battle
// { drums_of_battle | - }





###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################



###############################
## ShockAndAwe EnhSim Export ##
###############################
race                 tauren
mh_speed             2.50
oh_speed             1.80
mh_dps               156.6
oh_dps               171.1
mh_crit              32.58
oh_crit              32.58
mh_hit               11.16
oh_hit               11.16
mh_expertise_rating  196.00
oh_expertise_rating  196.00
ap                   3510
haste                3.87
armor_penetration    0.00
str                  133
agi                  775
int                  491
spi                  153
spellpower           1327
spell_crit           27.50
spell_hit            13.95
max_mana             11481
mp5                  0
mh_imbue             windfury
oh_imbue             flametongue

mh_enchant           mongoose
mh_weapon            -
oh_enchant           berserking
oh_weapon            -

trinket1             mirror_of_truth
trinket2             meteorite_whetstone

totem                totem_of_dueling
set_bonus            - ## not currently available in the addon export
metagem              relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1         windfury_weapon
glyph_major2         stormstrike
glyph_major3         flametongue_weapon
glyph_major4         - ## slot empty

glyph_minor1         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor2         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor3         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim


#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge       3/5
improved_shields          0/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         1/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            5/5
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      2/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                0/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             2/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             0/5
elemental_focus           1/1
elemental_fury            5/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/5
lava_flows                0/3
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                0/5
#1348SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by supermantwo View Post
ok why is the enhsim saying that I'm over the expertise and hit cap when I'm not!?
It says your EP valuation is over the cap not you are over the cap. This was discussed several times in this thread already. EP works by taking your current value and adding that much too it and seeing what happens to your dps.

If you add 4 expertise (32.79 expertise rating) to your 196 expertise rating you end up ~14 points over the cap which means those 14 points are doing nothing for your dps so it will screw up your EP calculations.

Same thing applies to your hit rating but to a lesser degree since the cap is only the spell hit cap and any +hit over that cap will still apply towards your white damage.
#1349SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Maybe the sim should just automagically do this for people now, as we're having to explain this every day week after week.
#1350SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Maybe the sim should just automagically do this for people now, as we're having to explain this every day week after week.
There are a few things which it could do which might reduce the number of questions asked here, and although this forum isn't about pandering to people who don't read the manual, it might be worth considering. Here are a few of them:

*Drop the MH/OH distinctions for hit/crit/expertise, as far as I can tell these are legacy stats and are no longer applicable.
*Drop the spell/melee distinction, ask just for rating. Any modifiers come from talents which are already asked for and can be applied behind the scenes.
*Convert everything to either rating or value, right now they are mix and match which causes some confusion.
*Drop spirit.

And as Malan said, magical EP value ranges which switch to negative when over cap.

There may be good reason why these are all still in, but as far as I can tell these are mostly changes which wouldn't affect outcome.
#1351SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Shabadu
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
*Drop the MH/OH distinctions for hit/crit/expertise, as far as I can tell these are legacy stats and are no longer applicable.

There may be good reason why these are all still in, but as far as I can tell these are mostly changes which wouldn't affect outcome.
MH/OH expertise is of some significant value when it comes to Orcs with axe options, of which there are relatively few viable combinations currently. Pretty much only The Key when it comes to one handed axes.
#1352SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
There are a few things which it could do which might reduce the number of questions asked here, and although this forum isn't about pandering to people who don't read the manual, it might be worth considering. Here are a few of them:

*Drop the MH/OH distinctions for hit/crit/expertise, as far as I can tell these are legacy stats and are no longer applicable.
*Drop the spell/melee distinction, ask just for rating. Any modifiers come from talents which are already asked for and can be applied behind the scenes.
*Convert everything to either rating or value, right now they are mix and match which causes some confusion.
*Drop spirit.

And as Malan said, magical EP value ranges which switch to negative when over cap.

There may be good reason why these are all still in, but as far as I can tell these are mostly changes which wouldn't affect outcome.
As noted in the post above me, the MH/OH distinction is important for orc shamans. But further to this, if you make all the changes you've suggested, you remove a lot of the power of the sim for those of us who actually know what we're doing. The ability to increase spell hit/crit only to see the effect on DPS is useful to know whether crit rating is really more valuable than agility. Sure you can sim out the infinite combinations that you're interested in, but the ability to look at individual stat interactions helps us gain a better understanding how our stats affect our DPS.

Especially when it comes to EP steps, I really like being able to adjust these manually. I can or remove haste with the step size, as well as vary the amount. Both options change the results considerably. Simming our stats is more than just inputting our gear and getting out EP values.
#1353SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Shabadu View Post
MH/OH expertise is of some significant value when it comes to Orcs with axe options, of which there are relatively few viable combinations currently. Pretty much only The Key when it comes to one handed axes.

He added an option under the "Procs and Stuff" panel to tell the Sim if you are using an Axe in the main or offhand and since the Sim is set up to also know whether you are an Orc, I would assume that telling it you are using an Axe in a certain spot, when you have told it that you are an Orc, will adjust the expertise value for that spot.

As for Values versus Rating. For expertise it really needs to use Expertise, not expertise rating, in the EP calculations since otherwise it is going to end up adding a large degree of inaccuracy. This is because Expertise only works in 0.25% chunks, which is equal to 1 expertise or ~8.179 expertise rating. If you were to have it using rating for EP calculations and if your value ends up between the "chunks" then a portion of it is actually doing nothing. Which will then reduce the EP value you would obtain for expertise rating.
#1354SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
e:fb
#1355SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Nevets_69 View Post
As noted in the post above me, the MH/OH distinction is important for orc shamans. But further to this, if you make all the changes you've suggested, you remove a lot of the power of the sim for those of us who actually know what we're doing. The ability to increase spell hit/crit only to see the effect on DPS is useful to know whether crit rating is really more valuable than agility. Sure you can sim out the infinite combinations that you're interested in, but the ability to look at individual stat interactions helps us gain a better understanding how our stats affect our DPS.

Especially when it comes to EP steps, I really like being able to adjust these manually. I can or remove haste with the step size, as well as vary the amount. Both options change the results considerably. Simming our stats is more than just inputting our gear and getting out EP values.
Re: Stepping: I am not suggesting that gets changed at all, just the input stats.

Re: Spell hit/crit: I am not suggesting any changes to your ability to adjust hit or crit or agility independently, merely that if you enter your hit rating there is an equation to determine spell hit from it, likewise for crit, entering them twice is redundant. I am not sure what benefit being able to adjust spell hit vs melee hit is any longer, since the hit merger there aren't any items I can think of which are viable and provide spell only benefits.

Re: Orcs: As has been said, the race is covered and whether or not axes are equipped is covered, it is redundant.
#1356SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
Re: Stepping: I am not suggesting that gets changed at all, just the input stats.

Re: Spell hit/crit: I am not suggesting any changes to your ability to adjust hit or crit or agility independently, merely that if you enter your hit rating there is an equation to determine spell hit from it, likewise for crit, entering them twice is redundant. I am not sure what benefit being able to adjust spell hit vs melee hit is any longer, since the hit merger there aren't any items I can think of which are viable and provide spell only benefits.

Re: Orcs: As has been said, the race is covered and whether or not axes are equipped is covered, it is redundant.
Except that being able to manually adjust for melee or spell crit can be useful for experimentation. You are asking him to dumb down the Sim and there are still things that only affect spell or melee crit or hit and you would be limiting the ability of the Sim to deal with those items in the future.

What if they make an offhand Claw in Ulduar with an equip bonus that makes it so that it can't be parried or dodged. The equip bonus is such that it only applies to the offhand. Currently I would be able to just increase the Offhand expertise value so that dodge would be removed from the table, leaving the mainhand expertise at it's real value. This would allow me to see how Expertise's EP value would be affected by equipping such a weapon and I would be able to make informed choices based on that information. If the Sim was "dumbed down" like you are requesting it would require Tukez to rewrite the Sim to incorporate a special modifier just for that weapon.

What if there is a boss encounter with switching debuffs, one that increases spell hit by 10% and decreases melee hit by 10% and then reverses. Or a boss with a AoE cloud that makes melee attacks 25% less likely to hit. Or a boss that spells will never miss on. Etc etc etc. There are many things that the developers could incorporate into their boss encounters that the current open ended framework of the Sim will allow us to recreate and utilize to maximize our performance. If the Sim is dumbed down however, that would no longer be true and while it would remain an incredible tool it would lose a lot of versatility at the same time.

Hopefully Levva will have success with his plan to allow the use of Rawr's UI framework to gear out your shaman and then "export" the Rawr saved file into Enhsim for simulation. Then we will have the simplification you are arguing for and at the same time keep the versatility that is so useful to others who possess a deeper understanding of the Sim's potential.
#1357SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Blazeflack
Expertise cap & negative EP value

Regarding expertise cap I've heard everybody saying that you just set the expertise EP to a negative value before starting the sim. However if you set your current expertise rating to 214 and try to set the EP value to -4 the GUI info will still tell you that you are over the cap and will skip the EP calculation of expertise if you run the EP calculation through the GUI.

Currently I either just set my rating to 213 or use the commandline calculation instead where 214 expertise rating and an EP value of -4 seems to work just fine, not skipping EP calculation and giving you a negative EP value of expertise as expected.

Is this a bug in the GUI or am I missing something?

Edit: Never mind, turns out it won't skip the test but just warn you that you are over the cap. I must have ran the sim using value 4 and not -4 when I noticed it skipping. Sorry about that.

Last edited by Blazeflack : 02/02/09 at 3:32 AM.
#1358SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Bellante
I currently get a bug when running 1.5.6, an "unhandled exception error":

See the end of this message for details on invoking 
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index and length must refer to a location within the string.
Parameter name: length
   at System.String.InternalSubStringWithChecks(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length, Boolean fAlwaysCopy)
   at System.String.Substring(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.readConfigFile(SByte* filename)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.MainForm_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnLoad(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnCreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl(Boolean fIgnoreVisible)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
enhsimgui
    Assembly Version: 1.0.3314.31736
    Win32 Version: 
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Rene/Desktop/EnhSim1.5.6/enhsimgui.exe
----------------------------------------
msvcm90
    Assembly Version: 9.0.30729.1
    Win32 Version: 9.00.30729.1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/WinSxS/x86_Microsoft.VC90.CRT_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.1_x-ww_6f74963e/msvcm90.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.
I can click continue and the sim loads, but I thought I'd report the error here (and hopefully get pointed to a fix, however, noone else seems to have this problem).

EDIT: Rounced's suggestion worked, thanks for the tip.

Last edited by Bellante : 02/03/09 at 10:19 AM.
#1359SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Did you to load your config file from 1.5 and try to run it with 1.5.6? I got that error doing that and then I just deleted my old 1.5 folder and started over with a new Config and everything has worked fine since.
#1360SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Chrizz
Does anyone know why I might be seeing no increase in DPS when I include weapon enchants in my sims? I get DPS values that vary by no more than 2 when I run sims with and without weapon enchants.
#1361SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Chrizz View Post
Does anyone know why I might be seeing no increase in DPS when I include weapon enchants in my sims? I get DPS values that vary by no more than 2 when I run sims with and without weapon enchants.
Asking a question like this without including a config file and telling us what weapon enchants you are attempting to add is like calling your Doctor on the phone and asking them to diagnose what ails you without an examination.


Edited to add: just did some testing with my config and the weapon enchants seem to be working as intended.

Last edited by Rouncer : 02/03/09 at 3:35 PM.
#1362SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3AlexS
Hello, I'm new to the EnhSim and to the forum in general, and I'm having some problems with installation. I started downloading (from bottom to top) the list of items in enhsim - Google Code link.

I had no problem with EnhSim0.1.0.rar

Extracting EnhSim0.1.0source.rar gave me this error
!   SFMT: The file "SFMT" header is corrupt
EnhSim0.1.0_including_debug.rar was ok

compile_instructions_v1.txt was ok

When I tried extracting EnhSim0.1.1.rar I got

!   source\boost\config\abi: The file "source\boost\config\abi" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config\compiler: The file "source\boost\config\compiler" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config\no_tr1: The file "source\boost\config\no_tr1" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config\platform: The file "source\boost\config\platform" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config\stdlib: The file "source\boost\config\stdlib" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\pool\detail: The file "source\boost\pool\detail" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\type_traits\detail: The file "source\boost\type_traits\detail" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\type_traits\msvc: The file "source\boost\type_traits\msvc" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config: The file "source\boost\config" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\detail: The file "source\boost\detail" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\pool: The file "source\boost\pool" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\type_traits: The file "source\boost\type_traits" header is corrupt
!   source\boost: The file "source\boost" header is corrupt
!   source\SFMT: The file "source\SFMT" header is corrupt
!   combatlog_version: The file "combatlog_version" header is corrupt
!   source: The file "source" header is corrupt
Any others that I tried extracting keep giving me errors like those. Obviously I'm doing something work, can anyone help me out?
#1363SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Just as a hint, you probably don't want to download the oldest and most out of date version of the sim. Getting the current version would probably be a big help.
#1364SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3AlexS
If I try to download the most recent .rar, I get
!   source\boost\config\abi: The file "source\boost\config\abi" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config\compiler: The file "source\boost\config\compiler" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config\no_tr1: The file "source\boost\config\no_tr1" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config\platform: The file "source\boost\config\platform" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config\stdlib: The file "source\boost\config\stdlib" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\pool\detail: The file "source\boost\pool\detail" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\type_traits\detail: The file "source\boost\type_traits\detail" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\type_traits\msvc: The file "source\boost\type_traits\msvc" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\config: The file "source\boost\config" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\detail: The file "source\boost\detail" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\pool: The file "source\boost\pool" header is corrupt
!   source\boost\type_traits: The file "source\boost\type_traits" header is corrupt
!   source\boost: The file "source\boost" header is corrupt
!   source\SFMT: The file "source\SFMT" header is corrupt
!   source: The file "source" header is corrupt
!   combatlog_version: The file "combatlog_version" header is corrupt
#1365SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
You're doing something wrong with the download or the unpack then.
#1366SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
did you download and install the .net framework necessary to make it run?
#1367SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Right. I saw that the linux section on EnhSim: Compiling and building EnhSim is empty so I figured that I'd make a blob of what I do to compile EnhSim. Did this on my new EEE so none of the old library magic I did on previous versions should be present(and jesus this keyboard is tiny).

ZThread
1. Download ZThread from http://zthread.sourceforge.net/download.html
2, Unpack and change into the new directory.
3. ZThread seems to do some stunts which gcc doesn't like, so do: export CXXFLAGS="-fpermissive"
4. ./configure && make && sudo make install

ZThread should now be installed under /usr/local.

Boost
I cheated hee and just installed Ubuntu's binaries.

1. sudo apt-get install libboost-dev

~150MB, but I have no idea what parts EnhSim uses and gcc gets bitchy without the binaries. After this, boost should be done.

EnhSim
1. Unpack and move into the source sub-dir
2. g++ -pthread -I./boost *.cpp /usr/local/lib/libZThread.a -o enhsim

Something is changed since earlier releases as I had to work a bit to get gcc to accept boost, but the above works. Use the binary like the wintendo client: ./enhsim config.txt.

I haven't fiddled with OSX in a while, but I see no reason this shouldn't work with a gcc environment set up. It is a UNIX after all.

TODO:
Optimizations - The client is slower than the pre-built binary. Maybe -O2 or 3 is enough. Have to test it on a proper machine.
#1368SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Chrizz
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Asking a question like this without including a config file and telling us what weapon enchants you are attempting to add is like calling your Doctor on the phone and asking them to diagnose what ails you without an examination.
Understood.

Here is my config file, I've retested using no weapon enchants, using Mong/Mong, using Zerk/Zerk, using Zerk/Mong and using Mong/Zerk. All the results show no more than a 1 DPS difference.

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           70
ep_crit_rating                  40
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    2
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   30
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       50
ep_mp5                          10

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1		SR
rotation_priority2		MW5_LB
rotation_priority3		SS
rotation_priority4		FS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8		LS


miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          156.5
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         27.73
oh_crit                         27.73
mh_hit                          8.42
oh_hit                          8.42
mh_expertise_rating             195
oh_expertise_rating             195
ap                              3607
haste                           5.43
armor_penetration               0
str                             129
agi                             747
int                             480
spi                             152
spellpower                      1040
spell_crit                      22.93
spell_hit                       10.52
max_mana                        11466
mp5                             92

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      -

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        incisor_fragment
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_splintering

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                2/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#1369SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      -
According to that, you have no enchants on your weapons. Did you just blank it out after messing with it, or did you really not set it?

I see that its in the Shock and Awe section that you cut/pasted - you might have an older version of SAA that wasn't parsing the weapon enchants correctly.
#1370SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Chrizz
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
According to that, you have no enchants on your weapons. Did you just blank it out after messing with it, or did you really not set it?

I see that its in the Shock and Awe section that you cut/pasted - you might have an older version of SAA that wasn't parsing the weapon enchants correctly.
I purposefully left the weapon enchants blank for now, I did sim using weapon enchants though. I didn't use SAA to load my stats I entered them manually.

Edit: I wish I could say what has changed, but for seemingly no reason I am seeing results from adding different weapon enchants to my sims after recopying the config I posted.

Last edited by Chrizz : 02/04/09 at 3:29 PM.
#1371SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Chrizz View Post
I purposefully left the weapon enchants blank for now, I did sim using weapon enchants though. I didn't use SAA to load my stats I entered them manually.
Worked fine for me.

Running with your exact setup (dropped hours to 1000 but everything else the same) - 4751.96dps

Adding Mainhand Berzerker enchant (no OH enchant) - 4828.41dps

Changing MH Berzerker to Mongoose (no OH enchant) - 4811.46

Running with Berzerker on MH and OH - 4895.63
#1372SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Tronso
I'm currently using [Wraith Strike]+[Webbed Death] for my weapons.
I decided to see how much of an upgrade Calamity's Grasp would be if I replaced my Wraith Strike with everything else being the same and to my surprise enhsim is showing Calamity's Grasp as a slight downgrade instead, but only by a few dps difference though

Config with my current stats with lag set to 0 and combat length 3 min
6138 dps
simulation_time                 20000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES_SS
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              MT
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              LL

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          90.3
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         32.11
oh_crit                         32.11
mh_hit                          10.49
oh_hit                          10.49
mh_expertise_rating             219
oh_expertise_rating             219
ap                              3663
haste                           3.42
armor_penetration               4.55
str                             131
agi                             868
int                             555
spi                             153
spellpower                      1559
spell_crit                      24.30
spell_hit                       13.11
max_mana                        12441
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Config with Wraith Strike swapped out for Calamity's Grasp
6129.65

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES_SS
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              MT
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              LL

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         32.67
oh_crit                         32.67
mh_hit                          10.49
oh_hit                          10.49
mh_expertise_rating             219
oh_expertise_rating             219
ap                              3753
haste                           2.84
armor_penetration               4.55
str                             131
agi                             904
int                             511
spi                             153
spellpower                      1126
spell_crit                      24.16
spell_hit                       13.11
max_mana                        11781
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
I also simed my personal BiS setup I put together while ago and Wraith is also coming ahead but very slightly

Thundering Capacitor is simming for higher then it should be, it now discharges on the 5th stack rather then the 4th stack like it used to.

In other words it discharges after 5 spell crits rather then 4

Last edited by Tronso : 02/04/09 at 7:31 PM.
#1373SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Tronso View Post
I'm currently using [Wraith Strike]+[Webbed Death] for my weapons.
I decided to see how much of an upgrade Calamity's Grasp would be if I replaced my Wraith Strike with everything else being the same and to my surprise enhsim is showing Calamity's Grasp as a slight downgrade instead, but only be a few dps difference though
Add the lag back in and CG will be better then WS since autoattacks are unaffected by server latency.
#1374SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Tronso
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Add the lag back in and CG will be better then WS since autoattacks are unaffected by server latency.
Using the same configs except changing lag to 200-250
5998.19 with Wraith Strike
5996.40 with Calamity's Grasp

300-350 lag
5935.56 with Wraith Strike
5934.93 with Calamity's Grasp

The difference got allot smaller and I'm sure if I set the lag even higher CG would pull ahead.
Calamity's Grasp has never dropped for my guild and after seeing the sim results I went ahead and replaced the mongoose on my Wraith Strike with Berserking

Last edited by Tronso : 02/04/09 at 8:03 PM.
#1375SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
kaoticz
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Are you serious?
Magma totem is +3% dps over searing at single target fight if there is no movement at all. It cost extra 235mp5. If you have to redrop it all the time then you will lose GCD or totem uptime (extra mana also) and both hurts overall dps. Your WWS show that you used magma totem with very good uptime and that lowered your other attacks like lightning bolt damage greatly.

Magma totem is great for patcwerk if you got gear for sustain it but it's not that hot at all when there is even little movement. Maybe they should fix searing totem if they want wood imp to be better for single targets.
Are you looking at the overall for the whole night or just bosses individually? Because for trash I can assure you magma totem would most definitely have a much higher uptime

However, during the encounters I only ever once or twice found myself in the position where I dropped a MT right as MW went to a 5 stack at the same time. Other than that, in order to keep the uptime on magma totem, I was actually redropping it before its full duration was up so that it would NOT intersect with other GCD's as best as possible (very very few times sacrificing lava lash to redrop it). When I say redropping it before its full duration, I mean anywhere from 4 to 8 seconds before it expired, sometimes 10 if needed.

Last edited by kaoticz : 02/05/09 at 7:56 PM. Reason: spelling
#1376SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Some good news about Rawr -> EnhSim

I've had a chat with the Rawr co-ordinator and he is now happy for the Rawr.Enhance module to include an export to EnhSim option as long as the work on the Enhance module proceeds at the same time. Ideally he would like to see the Rawr.Enhance module used by the majority of users who want basic accurate results, and for the elite who want to check things more in depth he is happy for the Rawr.Enhance module to have an export to EnhSim option. Thus my idea for writing a separate java module is unnecessary I can look at incorporating the export into the Rawr module.

For users here this means you could run Rawr import your stats from the Armory, play around with different items in different slots and get reasonable figures from Rawr. You could then export the data to Enh Sim and get more detailed analysis. Play around some more - export again - and test again. It should make swapping out different items a whole lot easier.

It might even be possible with some help from Tukez to set up communication EnhSim so that the Rawr module could write the config to a file that EnhSim would use. This would probably require splitting the character data config from the sim, raid, buff & proc data config. The idea would simply be to eliminate the cut n paste operation in between. Initally doing the work via cut n paste manually would be simplest as it requires no changes at the EnhSim end. Longer term a degree of automation of the process would be desirable.

The biggest challenge in all this is that my C++ is exceptionally rusty, having last coded using that at least 8 years ago. The Rawr stuff is all in Visual Studio which I have but am unfamiliar with so it may take some time. Toots said he was working on the main module to get the stats right, hopefully I can integrate with that and add the export option.

If nothing else we would have two calculations of stats which we could compare one with the other to see where any major differences lie. The major downfall of Rawr of course is that it doesn't attempt to simulate different timings of stuff WF in particular with its internal CD only raw dps calcs. However the basics should be possible to give ballpark comparisons of the output.
#1377SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nordin
SAA and Enhsim

I want to start off by saying thank you for all the work that has been done here. I play in an endgame guild, and use this site regularly as a way to better my play. Wonderful stuff keep it up, and I will do my part to contribute what I've found now as well.
My question is to why I'm recieving an error when I try to import my config file from SAA. I copy it, and put it into wordpad, and save as a .txt. When I try and open it with the enhance sim I get an error, and it won't let me continue. I mainly stick to manually entering all my stats, but this is getting kind of old. I'm also using the most current version of both the addon and the sim. Any help would be appreciated.
If I'm understanding correctly, Levva you're looking to build a program in which works with enhsim to make inputing different gear set-ups easier? This would be amazing, and would help greatly in deciding whats best for each of us. If there is anything I can do let me know, but I'm not a programmer so keep that in mind.
#1378SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Acks
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Add the lag back in and CG will be better then WS since autoattacks are unaffected by server latency.
Also, with a fast offhand, FT damage will be higher and this will inflate the value of WS. I would try simming with Angry Dread in the offhand as well. And are you sure you're adjusting stats correctly when you swap weapons in the sim?

@Nordin: I think the auto-generated file is just portion of the config file that EnhSim needs. Read the readme carefully and it tells you were to paste in the auto-generated SAA config inside the EnhSim config.
#1379SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3qid
Strange stat weight results

EnhSim has been working well for me for a while now, but I'm getting some results that don't seem right. With this configuration (it should match my current gear):

simulation_time                 20000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         200
max_lag                         500
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    750

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            snapper_extreme
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.01
oh_crit                         30.01
mh_hit                          10.19
oh_hit                          10.19
mh_expertise_rating             214
oh_expertise_rating             214
ap                              3571
haste                           7.41
armor_penetration               0
str                             135
agi                             773
int                             462
spi                             155
spellpower                      1345
spell_crit                      24.78
spell_hit                       12.73
max_mana                        11046
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_splintering

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    earth_shock

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       2/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
I get these results:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5045.83
ap                        1.00      0.55      5080.80        34.97
crit rating               1.82      1.00      5091.60        45.78
hit rating                1.72      0.94      5073.90        28.07
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5045.83
haste rating              2.10      1.15      5083.69        37.86
armor penetration rating  1.19      0.63      5055.23        9.40
spellpower                0.96      0.53      5060.54        14.71
mh dps                    5.87      3.18      5077.66        31.84
oh dps                    2.53      1.33      5059.08        13.25
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.80
intelligence*             1.36
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5045.83
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5045.83
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5045.83

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.

elapsed simulation time: 200000.00h
elapsed real time: 277.63s
simulation speed: 2593426x
Is anyone else really getting haste values above 2? Everything I've read suggests haste is pretty weak, particularly for melee, and that would make sense seeing as it only affects our white damage. I ran this configuration at least a couple of times and got similar results every time. Previous runs of the sim with older gear didn't give these results. I don't know if I'm missing something obvious, or if maybe there are discontinuities in the value of haste that I'm right on the edge of, or what. Any theories?
#1380SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by qid View Post
Is anyone else really getting haste values above 2? Everything I've read suggests haste is pretty weak, particularly for melee, and that would make sense seeing as it only affects our white damage. I ran this configuration at least a couple of times and got similar results every time. Previous runs of the sim with older gear didn't give these results. I don't know if I'm missing something obvious, or if maybe there are discontinuities in the value of haste that I'm right on the edge of, or what. Any theories?
I've gotten negative haste values recently. Try playing with the base haste in your input and see what comes out. I definitely think there's some discontinuities in the value of haste coming out of the sim.
#1381SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Dragon-CR
Originally Posted by qid View Post
Is anyone else really getting haste values above 2? Everything I've read suggests haste is pretty weak, particularly for melee, and that would make sense seeing as it only affects our white damage. I ran this configuration at least a couple of times and got similar results every time. Previous runs of the sim with older gear didn't give these results. I don't know if I'm missing something obvious, or if maybe there are discontinuities in the value of haste that I'm right on the edge of, or what. Any theories?
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      4877.57
ap                        1.00      0.49      4916.86        39.28
crit rating               1.41      0.69      4908.69        31.11
hit rating                1.37      0.67      4907.82        30.25
expertise rating          2.51      1.23      4928.03        50.46
haste rating              2.06      1.01      4923.07        45.49
armor penetration rating  1.38      0.68      4908.09        30.52
spellpower                1.22      0.60      4905.20        27.63
mh dps                    5.40      2.65      4904.07        26.50
oh dps                    2.33      1.14      4889.00        11.42
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.64
intelligence*             1.38
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -4877.57
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -4877.57
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -4877.57

elapsed simulation time: 11000000.00h
elapsed real time: 34521.87s
simulation speed: 1147098x
I boost all my EP values up to 45 generally or whatever the equivalent elixir is, but yeah lately I've been getting much higher haste ratings. A LOT of our DPS comes from damage forms that scales, at least theoretically, linearly with haste. I attributed my boost in haste to considerable new gear including 2pc T7 bonus and respecing for imp shields.

Melee - normally our top damage move
FT - generally in the top 3 for our total damage, if not top 3 then a close 4
MW - more haste = more PPM = more LBs
Static Shock - faster attacks means more proc chances
WF - assuming you're still not at the divisible into 3 second theoretical chasm then more haste = more WF procs

Only the damage on CDs doesn't directly benefit from haste, and I don't think our flame totems do either so that just leaves SS, ES, LL and ST/MT unaffected by haste.

Do wolves get our haste like some temporary pets seem to? (thinking of gargoyles)

Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
I've gotten negative haste values recently. Try playing with the base haste in your input and see what comes out. I definitely think there's some discontinuities in the value of haste coming out of the sim.
You only have 30 more points of haste than I do, but a slower weapon, not sure why that would cause your numbers to be that much lower than mine, I'm thinking the base EP values are set a bit too low for certain stats and cause them to be more affected by statistical variations than they should be (I'm looking at you armor pen rating).

Last edited by Dragon-CR : 02/05/09 at 4:06 PM.
#1382SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
I've gotten negative haste values recently. Try playing with the base haste in your input and see what comes out. I definitely think there's some discontinuities in the value of haste coming out of the sim.
That's not unexpected actually and its been discussed repeatedly in this thread as to why.
#1383SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
That's not unexpected actually and its been discussed repeatedly in this thread as to why.
Yes, I do remember reading the discussion about it. I was pointing out to qid that it's not just him; I suppose I should have pointed him towards the posts on haste.
#1384SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Wain
I presume "snapper_extreme" is a valid food option, as the simulator didn't complain when I used it, but there's no mention of it as a valid option in config.txt. You might want to add that Up till now I'd just assumed you hadn't added it as an option yet.
#1385SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Nordin View Post
I want to start off by saying thank you for all the work that has been done here. I play in an endgame guild, and use this site regularly as a way to better my play. Wonderful stuff keep it up, and I will do my part to contribute what I've found now as well.
My question is to why I'm recieving an error when I try to import my config file from SAA. I copy it, and put it into wordpad, and save as a .txt. When I try and open it with the enhance sim I get an error, and it won't let me continue. I mainly stick to manually entering all my stats, but this is getting kind of old. I'm also using the most current version of both the addon and the sim. Any help would be appreciated.
If I'm understanding correctly, Levva you're looking to build a program in which works with enhsim to make inputing different gear set-ups easier? This would be amazing, and would help greatly in deciding whats best for each of us. If there is anything I can do let me know, but I'm not a programmer so keep that in mind.
You do paste the SAA stuff at the END of the config file where it says

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon ###
###############################################################################

don't you?? You don't just paste it into an empty file???


I'm not looking to build a different program I'm looking to get Rawr.Enhance working see Rawr - Home
#1386SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nordin
I was apparently replacing too much of the config file and that's what kept giving me the problem. Thank you.
And to the rawr program, looks very interesting, my earlier statement still applies.
Rather than making two very short posts in different places, I would love to help with the testing of it once it's ready to do so.
#1387SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Those that wish to test the Rawr.Enhance module please do. At present it's still needing a LOT of work and the export function isn't written yet. However as long as you are downloading the latest svn copy from Rawr - Home and not just the releases you can assist by testing your Rawr data vs your character/computed data. The aim is to get the Rawr module working then get it to export that config to EnhSim. However I need LOTS of testers and feedback as there is LOTS to test. Please use the Rawr.Enhance thread in this forum to keep this thread clean.
#1388SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
@ qid:

it's because you're already well past the WF proc chasm; with all of the haste buffs up, it's right around 5.45% haste for the first chasm with 2.6/2.5 weapons.

edit: try doing a run with FT/FT and you'll see that WF drastically deflates the value of haste anywhere near those change points.
#1389SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3e30Birdy
Does anyone know how to change the glyph in enhsim so that it is only 2% instead of 5%? I was wondering because it looks like my heroic nexus healing mace may be better then my KT Reach at the moment with this nerf but i could not find the spot where the glyph could be changed myself.
#1390SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
Does anyone know how to change the glyph in enhsim so that it is only 2% instead of 5%? I was wondering because it looks like my heroic nexus healing mace may be better then my KT Reach at the moment with this nerf but i could not find the spot where the glyph could be changed myself.
Change lines 2025 and 2026 in enhsimconfig.cpp from 500 to 200. Recompile.
#1391SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
From the glyph thread.

http://elitistjerks.com/1097969-post144.html

Tukez can you update the Sim to account for the Windfury Glyph adding 40% additional bonus AP (500AP on rank 8) along with a 2% increased proc rate.
#1392SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Hah, so they changed the glyph but left the original effect active?
#1393SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.5.8

1.5.8
-Fixed Lava Lash damage.
-Fixed Thunder Capacitor.
-Glyph of Windfury Weapon gives 40% bonus ap and 2% extra proc chance.

What about the upcoming change to Unleashed Rage, should I change it already?
#1394SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Hah, so they changed the glyph but left the original effect active?
Yup which is probably why they were so quick to nerf it. The effect was pretty subtle and really only noticable if you were actually looking for it. So they changed the glyph to 5% and their conceptual numbers matched what the Sim was showing us but then when they looked at the actual returns from game play and raiding they saw Windfury damage scaling at a level beyond what they intended. Since they also probably didn't realize the original effect was active just reduced the proc rate increase to get Windfury back where they intended it to be.

What's interesting is the glyph is actually better overall in it's current form then with just the 5% proc rate since even though this glyph won't scale as well, it is much nicer for more undergeared shaman.

None of that changes the fact that they need to do something to either reign in Flametongue scaling or to allow Windfury Weapon to scale with Haste or we will be back in this situation again in a couple of months. Although UR only giving melee crit and Improved Scorch being reduced to 5% (if those preview notes can be believed) might be enough to keep Windfury on top through Ulduar.

edit:

Originally Posted by tukez View Post
1.5.8
-Fixed Lava Lash damage.
-Fixed Thunder Capacitor.
-Glyph of Windfury Weapon gives 40% bonus ap and 2% extra proc chance.

What about the upcoming change to Unleashed Rage, should I change it already?
First off, you are amazing!

Secondly would it be possible to have 2 exe files in the folder? One with the current game and the other one based purely on whatever changes are floating around on the PTR/patch preview etc.

I know Malan has mentioned to me that he would love an advanced panel option so that a person could play with things like Windfury's proc rate or the coefficient of Flametongue for theorycrafting purposes, personally I just like the idea that I could compare what is current with what may be coming up soon.
#1395SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Having a panel (not visible by default though) that would allow some tweaking of things like coefficients, multipliers, etc etc would be great yah. That way even if Tukez can't keep up with changes to real life stuff people can still adjust their sim for hotfixes or PTR changes.

The reason I brought it up originally was that I mentioned to Rounced that the simulators needed to be a little more user adaptable just so that when the author goes MIA there's some insulation for the community. That way we don't have to wait for someone to either decode the current sim to make changes or to rebuild a new one.

Alternatively instead of a panel you could offer another config file that could be specified at run time to override the default sim values. Then when a PTR change comes up you could just bundle a config file entitled "PTR_3_1_0.txt" with the sim, and we could load it in as such: enhsim config_lvl80.txt --with-config PTR_3_1_0.txt

Last edited by Malan : 02/11/09 at 4:35 PM.
#1396SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Andrast
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I know Malan has mentioned to me that he would love an advanced panel option so that a person could play with things like Windfury's proc rate or the coefficient of Flametongue for theorycrafting purposes, personally I just like the idea that I could compare what is current with what may be coming up soon.
Well you should be able to achieve this by having a "beta" version which tracks PTR changes or announced changes so would include things like the UR change which is coming in 3.1 and then a "stable" version which tracks what is on live.

You can fairly easily have 2 "installs" of the sim and simply use the same config for both.
#1397SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Tukez would it be possible to set the Sim up so that if a person chooses FT/FT it reduces the rank of the mainhand to rank 9? Either that or can the GUI be changed to include an option to select rank 9 Flametongue, in addition to the current options?

If both weapons are using the same rank of Flametongue then there appears to be something going on that causes the loss of a significant number of procs. It is most likely a hidden cooldown but I haven't seen any testing that has been able to determine the specific length of the cooldown. Actually, if you could add a 0.1 second cooldown to same rank Flametongue procs that would probably model the current behavior well enough until someone can figure out how to determine the real cooldown.

Thanks

Edit - Just did a little bit of testing. Matched Daggers with same rank of Flametongue. When I was able to keep them synced only had 50% of the expected Flametongue procs (200 hits/100procs). When I dropped 1 weapon down a rank then all of the procs were there, even when the weapons were synced.

Last edited by Rouncer : 02/12/09 at 10:29 AM.
#1398SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3philviral
Something I noticed a while ago - leatherworkers drums don't have any effect players over level 70. May want to reconsider whether Drums of Battle should still be available under the misc items drop down, or at least make sure the code takes the level limit into account.
#1399SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by philviral View Post
Something I noticed a while ago - leatherworkers drums don't have any effect players over level 70. May want to reconsider whether Drums of Battle should still be available under the misc items drop down, or at least make sure the code takes the level limit into account.
Read the tooltip.

They don't affect players level 80 or higher. So if you happen to be level 79 and want to see what the drums would do they will still work. But since the sim is meant for level 80 they could probably be removed without any real issues.
#1400SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Itania
Hello,

I've done some test with EnhSim to improve my DPS, but there is something strange in my results.

I'm using this configuration file :

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   15
report_count                    80
threads                         3
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         250
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   0
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       3000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    2500

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              ST

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/10
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         32.98
oh_crit                         32.98
mh_hit                          11.25
oh_hit                          11.25
mh_expertise_rating             147.00
oh_expertise_rating             147.00
ap                              3646
haste                           5.49
armor_penetration               4.22
str                             131
agi                             783
int                             511
spi                             154
spellpower                      1367
spell_crit                      27.93
spell_hit                       14.07
max_mana                        11781
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      -

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        sphere_of_red_dragons_blood

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
And results are :
MH:
miss                2382250        9.72%
dodge               552194         2.25%
glancing            6084753        24.83%
hit                 4393617        17.93%
crit                11094842       45.27%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.57%
procs/swings        13.87%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               180688         2.38%
hit                 3805213        50.18%
crit                3596471        47.43%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               64082          2.26%
hit                 1415157        49.95%
crit                1354130        47.79%

OH:
miss                2473094        9.74%
dodge               571913         2.25%
glancing            6314085        24.86%
hit                 4545240        17.90%
crit                11490635       45.25%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 15061766       51.04%
crit                14446708       48.96%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               60300          2.18%
hit                 1387456        50.10%
crit                1321531        47.72%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1495421        50.96%
crit                1439054        49.04%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               102553         2.25%
hit                 2277818        50.04%
crit                2171709        47.71%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1749473        51.01%
crit                1680239        48.99%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3893048        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 43.28

flurry uptime                  85.73%
unleashed rage uptime          99.97%
elemental devastation uptime   55.32%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              32.90%
oh enchant uptime              0.00%
trinket1 uptime                17.70%
trinket2 uptime                17.78%
totem uptime                   30.48%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          1.21      1.49%
mp5                 35.17     43.21%
replenishment       36.10     44.35%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.91      10.95%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1589.95   33.98%    83.17
windfury            642.38    13.73%    6.32
flametongue         535.17    11.44%    49.18
stormstrike         208.40    4.45%     4.72      26.02     26.77%
lava lash           227.93    4.87%     7.59      16.71     17.19%
searing totem       327.54    7%        0.86      4.15      4.27%
earth shock         359.81    7.69%     4.89      14.89     15.32%
lightning bolt      591.21    12.64%    5.72      35.44     36.46%
lightning shield    196.39    4.2%      0.72      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4678.78
MPS                 97.19
MP2min              11663.38
MRPS                81.46
Out of mana time    32.04%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 19.84s
simulation speed: 1814516x
Oom for 32.04% of the fight seems a little bit high for me. I'm rarely running out of mana when raiding on bosses, even if I use magma totem. Simulation report 0% MRPS for shamanistic rage, is there a problem?

I have found anything about that in this thread and in the configuration file (except "cast_sr_only_if_mana_left"), but i'm not so good in english, particularly with all abbreviation used in the config file, did i miss something ?

Thanks for your help.

Edit : Thanks to OnosKT, problem solved. I have miss the "SR" in the Rotation Priority list.

Last edited by Itania : 02/12/09 at 2:27 PM. Reason: Edit for problem solved :)
#1401SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3darkInertia
Originally Posted by Itania View Post
Hello,

I've done some test with EnhSim to improve my DPS, but there is something strange in my results.

Oom for 32.04% of the fight seems a little bit high for me. I'm rarely running out of mana when raiding on bosses, even if I use magma totem. Simulation report 0% MRPS for shamanistic rage, is there a problem?

I have found anything about that in this thread and in the configuration file (except "cast_sr_only_if_mana_left"), but i'm not so good in english, particularly with all abbreviation used in the config file, did i miss something ?

Thanks for your help.
rotation_priority_count 6
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 SS
rotation_priority3 ES
rotation_priority4 LL
rotation_priority5 LS
rotation_priority6 ST

I think you need to add SR into this priority list, or else the sim won't cast it at all.
#1402SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
e30Birdy
Amazing how fast the new sim was released i must add.

I Just ran the new sim version and i am getting the exact same dps i was getting on the old version. Should i have not used my old saved files and started over from scratch?

Be nice to see what the new changes would bring dps wise Tukez, but i hope you dont put in the work for the new changes and then they change them on you again.

I would also really appreciate a rank 9 FT in the weapon buffs if that is possible.

edit: i just used a the config lvl80 file and redid it all but i noticed the EP values are totally different then the last sim version. should i change these also to what i had in 1.5.6? As of right now i am seeing a 200dps increase over 1.5.6.

I just changed the EP back to the old Values and noticed my dps stayed the same, seems to me as the nerf to the glyph was accually a buff? Correct me if i am wrong.

Last edited by e30Birdy : 02/12/09 at 3:39 PM.
#1403SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by e30Birdy View Post
Amazing how fast the new sim was released i must add.

I Just ran the new sim version and i am getting the exact same dps i was getting on the old version. Should i have not used my old saved files and started over from scratch?
The last version of the Sim was made under the assumption that the WF glyph only added 5% increased proc chance. This was actually incorrect and the glyph was actually (intentionally or not) adding not only the 5% increased proc chance but also adding a 40% increase to the bonus AP.

The new sim is adding the 2% increased proc chance that is listed on the tooltip AND it is adding the 40% increased bonus AP. Together those things equal out to the 5% increased proc chance which was all the Sim was showing last build. Which is why the Sim is giving you those matching results.
#1404SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lumb
With regards to the flametongue glyph, is the sim assuming a 4% increase in chance to crit as long as the shaman is dual wielding?
#1405SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
Surely blizz will remove the 40% AP effect. I can't imagine that their intent was to combine the 2 iterations of the glyph like that.
#1406SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lumb
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Surely blizz will remove the 40% AP effect. I can't imagine that their intent was to combine the 2 iterations of the glyph like that.
I would think so. Like rounce has suggested, they probably just didn't realise the 40% AP effect was still there and so nerfed the percentage to keep the numbers in line. Personally I hope they revert it back to 5% and remove the attack power effect.
#1407SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Lumb View Post
I would think so. Like rounce has suggested, they probably just didn't realise the 40% AP effect was still there and so nerfed the percentage to keep the numbers in line. Personally I hope they revert it back to 5% and remove the attack power effect.

Seems the most likely especially considering that if you sim out the current glyph and compare it to what we were getting from the last version of the Sim where the glyph only gave the 5% proc increase the results are, for all intensive purposes, identical. There is even the number chosen for the new version of the glyph. If it was just meant as a nerf they likely would have moved it back to 3% but the 2% implies to me that they were looking for a target and 2% was the number that got them there.
#1408SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Morelis
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
1.5.8
-Fixed Lava Lash damage.
-Fixed Thunder Capacitor.
-Glyph of Windfury Weapon gives 40% bonus ap and 2% extra proc chance.
Has the Glyph of Shocking change ever been implemented? I couldn't find it in the changelog.
#1409SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lumb
Question regarding [Totem of Hex]: Is the sim still using the old 85 spell power pre patch value for this totem / relic, or the new post patch 3.08 165 spell power? I can't find anything about this totem in the Think Tank article or elsewhere (apart from wowhead) since it has been changed, but presumably it's pretty good now.
#1410SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Raikodin
EnhSim 1.5.8 seems to be using a spellpower bonus of 182 for CL and LB. From enhsimconfig.cpp (lines 1388-1391):

    else if (name == "totem_of_hex") {
      enhsims_[i]->lightning_bolt_->spellpower_bonus_ += 182;
      enhsims_[i]->chain_lightning_->spellpower_bonus_ += 182;
    }

Last edited by Raikodin : 02/13/09 at 1:51 PM.
#1411SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
182 is too high though unless WoWhead is wrong?
#1412SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lumb
It is definitely 165 ingame, so yeah, it's set too high.
#1413SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Chaotique
Just fyi, speaking of spellpower typos, the spellpower elixir is being set as 125 spellpower rather than 58. Looks like a copy+paste error from the flask.
...
  else if (name == "flask_of_the_frost_wyrm") {
    spellpower_ += 125;
  }

  else if (name == "spellpower_elixir") {
    spellpower_ += 125;
  }
...
#1414SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pjoo
Originally Posted by Lumb View Post
With regards to the flametongue glyph, is the sim assuming a 4% increase in chance to crit as long as the shaman is dual wielding?
I got only 2% less crits when I removed my Flametongue Weapon Glyph, so safe to assume it only gives 2% while dualwielding FT/FT.
#1415SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lumb
Originally Posted by Pjoo View Post
I got only 2% less crits when I removed my Flametongue Weapon Glyph, so safe to assume it only gives 2% while dualwielding FT/FT.
That's weird, I did some short testing and found exactly the opposite.

http://elitistjerks.com/1100662-post165.html
#1416SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Frostshockz
NVM - solved the problem.

Last edited by Frostshockz : 02/15/09 at 3:36 PM.
#1417SourcePosted onundefinedescariot
I want to start off by offering my thanks for the simulator, it's really been a big help as I begin planning out what upgrades to shoot for.

I had a (simple?) question though: is there any way to use the simulator to determine what is the absolute best set of gear currently available? The value of various pieces obviously changes as one's stats change so it doesn't seem as simple as I hoped. The reason I would like to know this is because my guild prioritizes items which are "best in slot" for classes, yet it's difficult for me to make that claim as my stats constantly shift around.

I apologize if this is a slightly off-topic request, but if the simulator cannot provide that answer easily, does anyone have a link or list of the best-in-slot set of all items for enhance atm, by theorycrafting standards? Thanks for the time!
#1418SourcePosted onundefinedTotentanz
any update on how to compile/run latest version on OSX?
#1419SourcePosted onundefinedVesham
Originally Posted by escariot View Post
I had a (simple?) question though: is there any way to use the simulator to determine what is the absolute best set of gear currently available?
I'd suggest playing around with the character planner on chardev.org. Test out a couple different combinations for yourself and input the stats into the simulator.
#1420SourcePosted onundefined◊ Malan
Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
any update on how to compile/run latest version on OSX?
I had to give up my mac in order to get some hardware upgrades. Someone else will have to figure it out again.
#1421SourcePosted onundefinedNeurosisxeno
Originally Posted by escariot View Post
I want to start off by offering my thanks for the simulator, it's really been a big help as I begin planning out what upgrades to shoot for.

I had a (simple?) question though: is there any way to use the simulator to determine what is the absolute best set of gear currently available? The value of various pieces obviously changes as one's stats change so it doesn't seem as simple as I hoped. The reason I would like to know this is because my guild prioritizes items which are "best in slot" for classes, yet it's difficult for me to make that claim as my stats constantly shift around.

I apologize if this is a slightly off-topic request, but if the simulator cannot provide that answer easily, does anyone have a link or list of the best-in-slot set of all items for enhance atm, by theorycrafting standards? Thanks for the time!
While it is true that state weights do change rather quickly for EnhShaman, there are certain pieces that are above the rest. The boots and leather gloves off Malygos are a prime example. Even if you're not hit capped, and the boots you have on are providing hit, the Boots of the Renewed Flight will almost always be better, because they are a higher iLevel allowing for more stats to be distributed on them. Frosted Adroit Handguards are another example.
#1422SourcePosted onundefinedrava
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but I see no option for Flame Cap for the consumable list? The 40 fire damage proc ends up being like 1500 of my total damage on a 150 second fight, and the fire spellpower addition to FT/Fire totem of comes out to 8 damage/swing of FT, 8 dmg/tick of magma, 13.336 dmg/tick of searing excluding damage multipliers, crit, etc with a 1 minute duration and no combat lockout(can use another in 3 mins).

Napkin math has it at around a 20 dps gain with Webbed Death/fire totem(assuming 60 sec flame cap/flurry uptime, 40 sec with hero, 15 sec with haste pot) which isn't a whole lot, but for a consumable that costs ~20 silver it's definitely worth using them in conjunction with your other attack speed cds.

Last edited by rava : Yesterday at 7:50 PM.
#1423SourcePosted onundefinedDragon-CR
Calculating BiS would take some work. You'd have to start out with a few assumptions about BiS items to get a baseline and then see if there's any upgrades available for one slot, sim again etc... until you can't find anything better. Say start out with 5pc T7.5, throw in some items from badge vendor since they're easy to get, CG and WD for weapons, fill in other slots with what seems might be best, then sim it all together then use lootrank.com to see if there are any slots that can be improved on. Not sure how much it would be worth it at this point, esp since ulduar will be on PTR soon, might be best to do this for T8 loot once we get an idea of what we'll be seeing there.

Also you should aim for a certain minimum haste value since haste can get a bit strange in the 4-6% range, push past the WF chasm to get a more accurate picture of its real value.
#1424SourcePosted onundefinedkillachinchilla
Hi, i've got a problem. Each time i try to sim my EP Values i get this




this is my config file

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    0
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    1
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              ST
rotation_priority7              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        1.50
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.7
mh_crit                         33.73
oh_crit                         33.73
mh_hit                          10.28
oh_hit                          10.28
mh_expertise_rating             202
oh_expertise_rating             202
ap                              3638
haste                           5.92
armor_penetration               2.01
str                             131
agi                             905
int                             471
spi                             154
spellpower                      1365
spell_crit                      26.97
spell_hit                       12.85
max_mana                        11181
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Anyone got an idea? i got this problem since 1.4x
#1425SourcePosted onundefinedtukez
Originally Posted by killachinchilla View Post
Hi, i've got a problem. Each time i try to sim my EP Values i get this

...

Anyone got an idea? i got this problem since 1.4x
Change ep_precision to 2. You also don't seem to have any problems with mana, so you could set simulate_mana to 0. Also make sure you set simulation_runtime at least 10000.
#1426SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
killachinchilla
Thanks a lot! it works!
The spellpower i am going to enter, is it with ft bonus spellpower or without? and the 2% spellcrit if i got the ft glyph?

Last edited by killachinchilla : 02/17/09 at 9:24 AM.
#1427SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
The spellpower i am going to enter, is it with ft bonus spellpower or without? and the 2% spellcrit if i got the ft glyph?
What you enter in the simulator are your unbuffed stats. That means without the FT bonus. Assuming you export them from inside the game, your character should not have any buffs that add any kind of damage on it. (no food, no weapon chants, no elixirs/flasks, etc.). If you get your data from the armory, I am pretty sure that right now the armory shows your unbuffed stats even if you were buffed in game (I need to check this a bit more though)

The 2% spellcrit is also taken care of by the simulator, so no need to add it by yourself (as long as you select in the sim that you have the glyph equipped of course)
#1428SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
What you enter in the simulator are your unbuffed stats. That means without the FT bonus. Assuming you export them from inside the game, your character should not have any buffs that add any kind of damage on it. (no food, no weapon chants, no elixirs/flasks, etc.). If you get your data from the armory, I am pretty sure that right now the armory shows your unbuffed stats even if you were buffed in game (I need to check this a bit more though)

The 2% spellcrit is also taken care of by the simulator, so no need to add it by yourself (as long as you select in the sim that you have the glyph equipped of course)
The armory will show any buffs you have active on your character that have affected your paperdoll stats. Also if you have the Flametongue glyph it will be reflected in your stats and if you select the glyph again you are getting double the benefit from it in regards to the Sim (meaning the sim will be inaccurate).

Best thing is to just make sure to click off all buffs and both weapon imbues before copying your paperdoll stats. That way there is no longer any issues with the Flametongue buff or glyph.
#1429SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
Actually I'm fairly sure the armory was fixed so it no longer shows any buffs you have on you, and is by default unbuffed stats.
#1430SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
Originally Posted by Dragon-CR View Post
Actually I'm fairly sure the armory was fixed so it no longer shows any buffs you have on you, and is by default unbuffed stats.
You're right. Your profile won't show any buffs except the effects from your imbued weapons (flametongue & earthliving).
#1431SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
Looks like we might have been wrong about expertise being atomic
#1432SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Frostshockz
Two questions:

1) When I do my sims I get a fairly wide range of results. For example - I just did the same sim 10 times just to see results - I got between 4837 -> 5031. 200DPS seems like a larger variation than I would have imagined.

I didn't change a thing, I simply kept clicking Combatlog Output over and over.

2) my results come in a C:\ command window. I don't know how to post it from there.

I am not the most computer knowledgeable person and this is probably a really stupid question, so I am sorry if it is. I just wanted to be able to post the results so people could help figure out why I had such a large variation on my data.


Just as an FYI I had 100K as the sim time, 30 min as the sim time combatlog, and 5 as the combat length, also 80 report count. Don't know if that matters at all.
#1433SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Click on simulate and not on combat output. Not sure what combat output does, but in my tests it finishes too quickly to do a long time simulation.

Couple of other advice based on my personal experience:

1. 10k sim time is enough. I get variations of under 1.0 DPS with that time. 100k will take a fairly long time
2. The results are put in an output file named output.txt in your enhsim folder. The name of that file can be changed in a box in the GUI.
#1434SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
I believe combat output is showing you a single simulation of one combat period (as defined by the input field) and as such the variability is expected. Think about what you see week to week from a 3-5 min fight.
#1435SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Frostshockz
I see - so I need to use simulate.

Thank you.
#1436SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
Enchant uptimes feel a bit off in the simulator for me, especially compared to what I'm observing in game. Here's an example from a recent run I did with CG/WD both with Berserking and 4pc T7 (100000 hr run):

flurry uptime                  85.14%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   80.77%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              36.68%
oh enchant uptime              26.71%
They both seem especially low to me considering Berserking lasts 15 seconds without refresh, meaning if it gets its assumed 1PPM, that even with zero haste or other special attacks it should have a theoretical 25% uptime. Granted over time some of those will be back to back or occure while a previous buff is in effect which will serve to lower the overall uptime, but with flurry, WF totem, and other haste effects the PPM should be closer to 1.7, and that's before considering LL and SS. I also realize that the fast speed of WD reduces the procs from SS and LL, but the amount shown here seems a bit extreme.

I know I see berserking up quite a bit, so much that it's more unussual to NOT have at least one buff than it is to have one, and dual berserking buffs is nowhere near uncommon so both of those uptimes feel highly suspect to me from in game observations.

It feels as if the sim isn't taking haste effects into account to boost PPM rate, and is assuming 1PPM at all times plus procs from instant attacks.

Maybe I'm wrong, does anybody know of a mod we can use to track procs? I know we can't tell which weapon the proc came from but a mod could show uptime for 1x buff and 2x buffs.
#1437SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3falonub
Originally Posted by Dragon-CR View Post
Maybe I'm wrong, does anybody know of a mod we can use to track procs? I know we can't tell which weapon the proc came from but a mod could show uptime for 1x buff and 2x buffs.
Procodile does a decent job. Tracks internal CDs of your other trinkets as well so you can sync their uptime with haste pots or on use trinkets if applicable.

Procodile - Curse
#1438SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I'm pleased to report that work on the Rawr module is coming along well and a few minutes ago I committed the initial code that implements an EnhSim config file export from Rawr. What this means is that you will be able to do rough calcs in Rawr, swap gear around and then export a config file using that gear set data to EnhSim. This should mean eliminating manually tweaking config file stats to simulate changing out gear.

It is of course in its initial alpha phase but its looking promising. It does actually work at present and exports a full character stats config file with all the talents, and a lot of the base stats included. Where I still have work to do it has a comment to indicate a missing value. The format of the export file is IDENTICAL to the format of the cut n paste export from my ShockAndAwe addon. Indeed I stuck with the same export to clipboard model, so all you need to do is to click the button in Rawr and paste the export data into your EnhSim config file.

I am hoping that this will lead to various people being able to assist improving the Rawr calculations as well as providing a working config link to EnhSim. I did say to the Rawr project lead that the aim was to get Rawr calcs as accurate as possible within the Rawr framework so that for the majority of users using Rawr would suffice and for us numbers gurus the export would give us additional info from the simulator to confirm the results.

I will of course need testers, if anyone wants to volunteer contact me directly or respond in the [Enhancement] Rawr module thread.
#1439SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Next up we need an automated generation of every possible combination of gear and a batch file that runs the sim on all those files and compares the simulated DPS.
#1440SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
Along the above lines and hopefully something much simpler would be a way to do multiple runs with different EP steppings to get an idea of EP values over a range of increase for a few of those ratings we have that seem to vary greatly as you add more (I'm looking at you haste).

Something like do a run for baseline and a run for AP EP, then do a series of runs for haste in a small increments, say 16 rating increase each step, then calculate 2 EP values for each step, the EP based on the previous stepping and total EP from base stat.
#1441SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Next up we need an automated generation of every possible combination of gear and a batch file that runs the sim on all those files and compares the simulated DPS.
Rather than an exhaustive search, a heuristic algorithm might be a better choice. I'm not a code guy, but my personal work has been in optimization dealing with this exact sort of thing. If someone could come up with a function that runs the simulator with certain setup, I can write a program that will perform a heuristic search to find the optimal gearing. I guess the hard part is finding a way to specify gear/gem/enchant choices that is easy to pass to a function that decodes those choices into stat values, that can then be passed to the sim. Like I said, my own experience with code is limited.
#1442SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
I think that's how the rest of the rawr modules work but since we don't have a highly accurate closed form solution we can't do that.
#1443SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
What you enter in the simulator are your unbuffed stats. That means without the FT bonus. Assuming you export them from inside the game, your character should not have any buffs that add any kind of damage on it. (no food, no weapon chants, no elixirs/flasks, etc.). If you get your data from the armory, I am pretty sure that right now the armory shows your unbuffed stats even if you were buffed in game (I need to check this a bit more though)

The 2% spellcrit is also taken care of by the simulator, so no need to add it by yourself (as long as you select in the sim that you have the glyph equipped of course)
My testing shows that the armory figures INCLUDE the 2% spell crit from FT weapon glyph. It also includes FT weapon imbue if you logged out with that enabled so armory figures need to be treated with some caution.
#1444SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3crazyhammer
WF Glyph fixed :(

Can we get the Sim updated:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Recent In-Game Fixes
#1445SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Frostshockz
I just did some sims with WS, Kel's Reach, and Cudgel of Saronite Justice (We have STILL yet to see ONE CG /sigh). All of them used SS, FT, and LS glyphs. Webbed Death with Zerker on the OH.

The results were surprising.

CoSJ came out on top with 5400, WS next and KR last. The best results were always with zerker and FT/FT (I took into consideration 9/10 FT).

This is just so sad. I didn't use WF glyph at all - since the sim doesn't have the changes in it, and it is pretty obvious that the glyph isn't going to be used at all.

I did the sims on my laptop (which doesn't have internet now), when I get home I will post the results.
#1446SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xieon
With the latest Windfury Glyph nerf, I've jumped head first into the FT/FT arena and am also adjusting my gearing strategy accordingly. Besides threat issues, its been pretty interesting.

I'd like to request that the [Tears of Bitter Anguish] be added to the sim when possible. I'm in the process of tracking individual gear changes and that is one of the items that looks very appealing to the lightning mace/dagger approach I'm taking.

The AP modifier on the Windfury Glyph can also be removed based on the last bit of patch notes.

Thanks Tukez!
#1447SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rava
Something that I kind of overlooked until now for folks that arena is [Deadly Gladiator's Spellblade]. With it's speed and a chunk of crit it's siming very close to Torch(within 10 dps for me) and you circumvent the whole awkward caster hatred thing and have something that's guaranteed as opposed to dealing with drop rates and loot contention.
#1448SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by rava View Post
Something that I kind of overlooked until now for folks that arena is [Deadly Gladiator's Spellblade]. With it's speed and a chunk of crit it's siming very close to Torch(within 10 dps for me) and you circumvent the whole awkward caster hatred thing and have something that's guaranteed as opposed to dealing with drop rates and loot contention.

I'm just going to stay content with the melee weapons I currently have and if this situation persists into Ulduar then I will bid against casters for those fast caster mainhands and tell them to take any complaints they have to Blizzard for making us work this way.

(e) to remove some of the personal QQ from the post.

Last edited by Rouncer : 02/20/09 at 9:00 PM.
#1449SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Xieon View Post
I'd like to request that the [Tears of Bitter Anguish] be added to the sim when possible.
What's the cooldown?
#1450SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
I would like to hear from some of the experienced enha raiding shamans that follow these forums: How close is the sim to your actually observed dps? By this I mean your collected experienced dps over weeks of raiding on most "normal" bosses. I realise this kind of question can receive endless remarks and snickers and discussions over "what do you mean by normal", etc., but try to bear with me and tell me your gut feeling and experiences.

On a personal level, I find that the simulator has always overstated my dps. I try to do my rotation/priority list according to what the sim suggests, and it just never reaches that level.
#1451SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3nikoa
Originally Posted by Bellante View Post
I would like to hear from some of the experienced enha raiding shamans that follow these forums: How close is the sim to your actually observed dps? By this I mean your collected experienced dps over weeks of raiding on most "normal" bosses. I realise this kind of question can receive endless remarks and snickers and discussions over "what do you mean by normal", etc., but try to bear with me and tell me your gut feeling and experiences.

On a personal level, I find that the simulator has always overstated my dps. I try to do my rotation/priority list according to what the sim suggests, and it just never reaches that level.
You have to realize that you are human, so you will make mistakes, react a bit slower, lag all those things will make your DPS lower. To me that translates to about 50-150 DPS, and the more movement there is the wider the gap becomes because a) my dps is not continuous b) my attention is diverted c) I am trying to not die.
#1452SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
I made a new section to EnhSim website for wishes and bugs to help me with the development. I don't always catch the requests for the sim from this thread and often forget about them. From now on, if you have a request or bug to report, please add it to the EnhSim website too.
#1453SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Dragon-CR
I think it honestly depends on gear level as to how consistent your numbers will be with higher gear levels being more consistent. A lucky or unlucky streak @ 20% melee crit / 15% spell crit in mostly blues is going to affect things like elemental devastation and flurry more, causing wild variations in up times vs 32% melee / 28% spell where even a "bad" streak is still 80%+ uptime for both. Patchwork is obviously the best fight to compare sim vs real world performance.

Personally I don't like to give DPS values for changes, but if you're more than 20% off your sim value on PW and gemmed/enchanted ideally, with ideal consumable buffs, then you probably want to seriously take a look at your priorities and/or rotations and make sure you're using things as soon as they come off CD and keep fire totems up, etc... If you, or the whole raid, seems to have an off night, check raid comp. Did the mage respec arcane and now there's no IS/AC? That can wreak havok with your ED uptime, which in turn might affect flurry uptime. Did they forget a boomkin/SP? Losing 3% hit can have a larger than 3% impact due to missed procs.

If you're within 10% work on tightening timings, you're doing good and likely placing respectively on the charts, but there's still room for improvement.

If you're within 5% of your sim DPS you're doing well, may still need work on priorities and awareness, but you're well within the band where your results may be more at the mercy of the RNG than your playstyle.

The sim isn't perfect unfortunately and there's a few tricks you can do in game to boost your numbers that aren't accounted for, but there's pretty much always room for improvement in your personal game, even if you consistently get the same numbers the sim does.

I would like to add that one of the things that isn't emphasized here enough, esp with as much as we throw around "sim it" is the sim results aren't guaranteed. Every time you hit the attack button with a boss targeted you're rolling the dice. The sim is just a way to coax the RNG to roll in your favor more often than not.

Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I made a new section to EnhSim website for wishes and bugs to help me with the development. I don't always catch the requests for the sim from this thread and often forget about them. From now on, if you have a request or bug to report, please add it to the EnhSim website too.
Wub

Last edited by Dragon-CR : 02/20/09 at 8:51 PM.
#1454SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Bellante View Post
I would like to hear from some of the experienced enha raiding shamans that follow these forums: How close is the sim to your actually observed dps? By this I mean your collected experienced dps over weeks of raiding on most "normal" bosses. I realise this kind of question can receive endless remarks and snickers and discussions over "what do you mean by normal", etc., but try to bear with me and tell me your gut feeling and experiences.

On a personal level, I find that the simulator has always overstated my dps. I try to do my rotation/priority list according to what the sim suggests, and it just never reaches that level.
The sim obviously represents ideal conditions which you never reach in game. On fights like Patchwerk I've gotten within a couple hundred dps of the sim at times, but that fight is too short to be much of a meter at this point.
#1455SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3HappyDude
Originally Posted by Dragon-CR View Post
Enchant uptimes feel a bit off in the simulator for me, especially compared to what I'm observing in game. Here's an example from a recent run I did with CG/WD both with Berserking and 4pc T7 (100000 hr run):

flurry uptime                  85.14%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   80.77%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              36.68%
oh enchant uptime              26.71%
They both seem especially low to me considering Berserking lasts 15 seconds without refresh, meaning if it gets its assumed 1PPM, that even with zero haste or other special attacks it should have a theoretical 25% uptime. Granted over time some of those will be back to back or occure while a previous buff is in effect which will serve to lower the overall uptime, but with flurry, WF totem, and other haste effects the PPM should be closer to 1.7, and that's before considering LL and SS. I also realize that the fast speed of WD reduces the procs from SS and LL, but the amount shown here seems a bit extreme.

I know I see berserking up quite a bit, so much that it's more unussual to NOT have at least one buff than it is to have one, and dual berserking buffs is nowhere near uncommon so both of those uptimes feel highly suspect to me from in game observations.

It feels as if the sim isn't taking haste effects into account to boost PPM rate, and is assuming 1PPM at all times plus procs from instant attacks.

Maybe I'm wrong, does anybody know of a mod we can use to track procs? I know we can't tell which weapon the proc came from but a mod could show uptime for 1x buff and 2x buffs.
I've already posted this on the bug page for the simulator, but the PPM for berserking and mongoose seem to be too low. It's using a value of 1.0 rather than 1.2 as expected from The Retribution Paladin Thread (Wrath/3.0) and Proc Mechanics.

However, unlike the OP suggests, haste effects are not thought to increase the effective PPM of autoattacks.
#1456SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3BW~Merlin
Hit still raiting high

When I import my values into enhsim, enhsim tells me that Spell hit + EP range goes past cap and yet when I sim it all up to get EP values it still rates +hit as a high value. I thought because I was going past the cap that it would several penalise +hit and give me a low value for +hit.

here is my config file
#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			1000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				0	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				0	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			1	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		2	//{ 0 | 1 | 2 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		7
rotation_priority1		SR
rotation_priority2		LVB
rotation_priority3		FS
rotation_priority4		SS
rotation_priority5		ES
rotation_priority6		LL
rotation_priority7		LS



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			25.00	//%
armor				13083	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		0/3925		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0/1260		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	0.0/2.0		//%, bloody frenzy, 2nd talent spec TBA
melee_haste_buff		0.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		0/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	0.0/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	0.0/10.0	//%, improved scorch, winter's chill
spell_damage_debuff		0.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of elements, totem of wrath
spellpower_buff			0/280		//focus magic, improved divine spirit, flametongue totem, demonic pact
spell_hit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			0.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	0.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath
stat_multiplier			0.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			0/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		0/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			0/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			elixir_of_major_agility
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				spice_hot_talbuk
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }

misc_item			drums_of_battle
// { drums_of_battle | - }





###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race                 tauren
mh_speed             2.60
oh_speed             2.50
mh_dps               143.5
oh_dps               143.6
mh_crit              21.30
oh_crit              21.30
mh_hit               12.81
oh_hit               12.81
mh_expertise_rating  97.00
oh_expertise_rating  97.00
ap                   2947
haste                4.45
armor_penetration    5.26
str                  133
agi                  639
int                  425
spi                  153
spellpower           884
spell_crit           15.46
spell_hit            16.01
max_mana             10491
mp5                  0
mh_imbue             windfury
oh_imbue             flametongue

mh_enchant           -
mh_weapon            -
oh_enchant           -
oh_weapon            -

trinket1             sphere_of_red_dragons_blood
trinket2             mirror_of_truth

totem                totem_of_splintering
set_bonus            - ## not currently available in the addon export
metagem              -

glyph_major1         windfury_weapon
glyph_major2         lava_lash
glyph_major3         stormstrike
glyph_major4         - ## slot empty

glyph_minor1         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor2         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor3         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim


#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge       5/5
improved_shields          3/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         1/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            5/5
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      0/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                2/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             0/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             3/5
elemental_focus           0/1
elemental_fury            0/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/5
lava_flows                0/3
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                0/5
and here is my output
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 0.153641% (4.03032 hit rating).

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2200.34
ap                        1.00      0.31      2261.59        61.25
crit rating               1.75      0.54      2216.41        16.06
hit rating                2.44      0.75      2222.80        22.46
expertise rating          2.12      0.65      2221.65        21.31
haste rating              1.24      0.38      2211.74        11.40
armor penetration rating  1.04      0.32      2209.90        9.56
spellpower                1.14      0.35      2252.79        52.44
mh dps                    5.38      1.65      2212.70        12.35
oh dps                    2.87      0.88      2206.93        6.59
strength                  1.00      
agility                   1.67      
intelligence*             1.26      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -2200.34
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -2200.34
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -2200.34

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.75, HitRating=2.44, HasteRating=1.24, ExpertiseRating=2.12, ArmorPenetration=1.04, SpellDamage=1.14, MainHandDps=5.38, OffHandDps=2.87, Strength=1.00, Agility=1.67, Intellect=1.26, Spirit=0.00, Mana=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.00&mh=1.24&dps=5.38&mp5=0.00&mcr=1.75&odps=2.87&spd=1.14&Agi=1.67&mhit=2.44&Int=1.26&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.04&Exp=2.12

elapsed simulation time: 10999989.00h
elapsed real time: 10658.65s
simulation speed: 3715289x
#1457SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Originally Posted by Dragon-CR View Post
The sim isn't perfect unfortunately and there's a few tricks you can do in game to boost your numbers that aren't accounted for, but there's pretty much always room for improvement in your personal game, even if you consistently get the same numbers the sim does.
The reason I asked was to get some tips along these lines. My dps is within 10% of the sim, so it's not all bad, but I played around with sorting through combat logs from wws, and noticed that alot of high dps shamans do NOT break off from using stormstrike and earth shock to get a lightning bolt up at 5 MW stacks, which to me seemed counterintuitive. However, it turns out they seem to get their cooldowns used alot more often, and after playing with it on a dummy (might not be the best gauge, but it's an estimate), several rounds of doing this, vs. my usual playstyle (dictated by the think tank), resulted in 2-300 higher dps, every time (about 5 minute fights, repeated 10 times for each playstyle).

So to me, a "this is how it works in reality" tip seems to be to focus more on getting your cooldowns off than the actual lightning bolt. Another tip seems to be to get earthshock off before stormstriking, even if they come off cd at about the same time but the other way around, because it saves you intersections of GCD for a while.

Any comments and tips on this are most welcome. If it's inappropriate to do this in this thread (I dont know if it is, my post is about simulator vs. reality after all), just pm me, any advice is helpful, even if it isn't news
#1458SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Bellante View Post
My dps is within 10% of the sim, so it's not all bad,
It's actually more than that because the sim doesn't include Spirit Wolves. Nobody is going to hit their simulated dps unless its on something like patchwerk with a 2-3 min duration - and at that point it's a wash because the longer you have bloodlust active the more it distorts the comparison.

Try adjusting the combat length in the sim to 3 min (default is 5) and watch your simulated dps shoot up.
#1459SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
I'm wondering if our current set bonuses are part of the reason we seem to be drifting towards FT/FT at high gear levels. 10% LS damage obviously favors fast weapons and more spell power, and the 5% flurry, along with our strange WF mechanics around the 1.5sec "WF chasm" which we're dancing around with our normal 2.5-2.6 speed weapons. If the T8 set bonuses are more balanced between physical and spell damages we might see the FT/FT advantage fade. Granted if they over compensate and go too far to physical we might see WF/WF rise back.
#1460SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Dragon-CR View Post
I'm wondering if our current set bonuses are part of the reason we seem to be drifting towards FT/FT at high gear levels. 10% LS damage obviously favors fast weapons and more spell power, and the 5% flurry, along with our strange WF mechanics around the 1.5sec "WF chasm" which we're dancing around with our normal 2.5-2.6 speed weapons. If the T8 set bonuses are more balanced between physical and spell damages we might see the FT/FT advantage fade. Granted if they over compensate and go too far to physical we might see WF/WF rise back.

You do know that the Windfury Chasm is a misnomer, a phenomenon only observed in the perfectly timed world of the sim. In reality there is no perfect weapon speed that will cause a dramatic loss of dps because of how server-client interactions occur and just due to how the server seems to handle the procs in general.

The cooldown is 3 seconds but the only way I was able to the predicted proc rate (ie no clipping of attacks due to the cooldown) was by using a 3.3 speed weapon. This modulation works on both sides of the coin such that there is a bell curve to the proc rate and not a sharp spike as we see in the Sim.
#1461SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
I know it doesn't exist in practice to the extent it demonstrated by the sim but that doesn't necessarily mean that hasting past ~1.5sec swing (give or take a bit as you stated) isn't a smaller increase than before or a bit after (this coming from someone who probably stacks more haste than they should). That's why I put it in quotes, as it's still possible that it's a small effect on WF scaling. Regardless the point that our set bonuses actually seem to favor fast FT builds stands.

Slow, slower, shaman weapons, or was that fast, faster, shaman weapons... we're kinda confused right now...
#1462SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Dragon-CR View Post
I know it doesn't exist in practice to the extent it demonstrated by the sim but that doesn't necessarily mean that hasting past ~1.5sec swing (give or take a bit as you stated) isn't a smaller increase than before or a bit after (this coming from someone who probably stacks more haste than they should). That's why I put it in quotes, as it's still possible that it's a small effect on WF scaling. Regardless the point that our set bonuses actually seem to favor fast FT builds stands.

Slow, slower, shaman weapons, or was that fast, faster, shaman weapons... we're kinda confused right now...
The degree of variance about that chasm is probably +/- 0.15 seconds based on what I saw in the test which would mean with a 2.6 speed weapon roughly give or take 5.5% haste which effectively means the chasm is too large of a range to really worry about.

That halfway range really starts at 1.65 (since I had to use a 3.3 speed weapon to avoid losing any procs from the cooldown) and with Flurry and WF Totem alone and a 2.6 speed weapon you are already at 1.6 speed so I would just run a +EP haste and then a -EP haste and average the results to get a relevant value.
#1463SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
In an unrelated note I'm wondering how accurate it still is to calculate melee and spell crit separately and using them to statically value int and agi. Due to actual crit rating affecting both crit rates and spell crit affecting ED uptime, I'm guessing that calculating them separately devalues crit slightly in cases of <100% flurry and ED uptime. Seems the seperate crit calculations are a throwback to pre 3.0 days and should maybe be updated for a single crit rating run for both melee and spell, then actually sim int and agility normally instead of calculating from component parts. Since you're dropping a crit run and adding an int and agi run you'd end up with 15 total runs instead of the current 14 but that shouldn't make a big difference in run times and should be more accurate. My gut tells me that flurry uptime would go up and show a higher and probably more accurate value on crit, since doing both crit values at once would increase effective melee crit from both the extra rating and the extra ED uptime.
#1464SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Dragon-CR View Post
In an unrelated note I'm wondering how accurate it still is to calculate melee and spell crit separately and using them to statically value int and agi. Due to actual crit rating affecting both crit rates and spell crit affecting ED uptime, I'm guessing that calculating them separately devalues crit slightly in cases of <100% flurry and ED uptime. Seems the seperate crit calculations are a throwback to pre 3.0 days and should maybe be updated for a single crit rating run for both melee and spell, then actually sim int and agility normally instead of calculating from component parts. Since you're dropping a crit run and adding an int and agi run you'd end up with 15 total runs instead of the current 14 but that shouldn't make a big difference in run times and should be more accurate. My gut tells me that flurry uptime would go up and show a higher and probably more accurate value on crit, since doing both crit values at once would increase effective melee crit from both the extra rating and the extra ED uptime.
How this matter? If you can't accept this small variance how you can even use ep values? Every gear piece is combination of stats. Ep values don't understand this combination only individual values. In theory you are right but in wow reality there is no use of this kind of accuracy. You can even test this differency with simulator. Put +1% spell and melee crit and calculate crit ep.
#1465SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
If we didn't want to bother ourselves with small variances we'd just use spreadsheets with static values to approximate EP values like pretty much every other class and say "eh, that looks close enough". Would it mean the difference between doing 4k and 6k dps? Nah, but I'm pretty sure anybody here would squeeze out 5dps more if they could which these days is 0.1% or less of our total.
#1466SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
You suggest extra ep calculation. This will make simulator take 7% more time per ep full run. If you increase simulation time by 7% you also make simulator more accurate. Which one is more accurate way to model? If you have infinite time to simulate then you can set variance to 0 and then all this little small tweak can be noticed. Only way to model 100% accurate gear upgrades is change config. EP values are just little guideline. Only place where you can even increase invidual stats are gems and those are filled with hit/expertice/ap now. Also if you calculate spell and melee crit same time it's give lower value than separetly not higher like you claimed.

Tukez coded ep calculation this way becouse he like optimazing things. We have this discussion when Woltk was only beta stage and we found this solution best at accuracy/speed axel.
#1467SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jasonf
From my short testing on target dummies with Wrathstrike MH and Webbed death off-hand (FT/FT) i noticed that using max rank flametongue on both weapons i lose about 15%-20% flametongue hits compared to my white hits. Using rank 9 on one of my weapons and rank 10 on the other i lose about 2%-5% flametongue hits. So my question is this:

Does the sim model the flametongue 'bug" (or hidden cooldown)? And if so, can i set it to use rank 9 flametongue on one of my weapons and rank 10 on the other?

Any opinions on this or if you could point me to the right direction if it has already been discussed would be appreciated.
#1468SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
mjgunn
So, after reading so much about people finding fast mh spell dmg weapons running ft/ft working so well, I was lucky enough to find myself in a 10 man naxx where no one else wanted the hammer of the astral plane, so I nabbed it and ran to the test dummy. Threw FT 9 on the hammer (no enchant yet) in place of my CG, and FT 10 on my webbed death. With no buffs except for my totems (wf, soe, mana, ft), I beat on the dummy until I was oom after using SR, which gave me about a 3.5 minute test. Did it 5 times, averaged 2450 dps. Did the same with my CG, and ended up averaging 2375 dps. So, great, even with no enchant I just got a nice DPS increase which should only get bigger when raid buffed, or so I thought.

Punched my stats with the hammer into the sim, and simmed myself fully raid buffed with the CG, and again with the hammer, both multiple times, and am consistently finding myself going down ~ 130dps with the hammer. Configured the sim to have no buffs but my totems, and it's giving me the same results I got myself at the test dummy, hammer being better by ~ 75 dps. So, if the sim is correct, the hammer is better with no raid buffs, and CG is still better when fully buffed. Wanted to post my 2 config files, was hoping someone could double check them for me, make sure everything is right so I could make sure this is right for me.


Calamity's Grasp File

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          -
food                            wyrm_delight
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         33.5
oh_crit                         33.5
mh_hit                          10.55
oh_hit                          10.55
mh_expertise_rating             214
oh_expertise_rating             214
ap                              3648
haste                           2.84
armor_penetration               2.40
str                             129
agi                             819
int                             473
spi                             153
spellpower                      1094
spell_crit                      25.79
spell_hit                       13.19
max_mana                        11211
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        meteorite_whetstone

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Hammer of the Astral Plane File

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        1.8
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          90.5
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         33.18
oh_crit                         33.18
mh_hit                          10.55
oh_hit                          10.55
mh_expertise_rating             214
oh_expertise_rating             214
ap                              3559
haste                           3.05
armor_penetration               2.40
str                             129
agi                             783
int                             518
spi                             153
spellpower                      1528
spell_crit                      28.17
spell_hit                       13.19
max_mana                        11886
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        flametongue
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        meteorite_whetstone

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Thanks for any help you could provide!!

Edit: Whoops, had the CG file posted for both, fixed now. Also, forgot to mention that I manually added 2% extra spell crit on the hammer config for the 2nd flametongue imbue since I've read that the sim only adds 2%, not 4 if you have flametongue on both weapons.

Edit 2: After reading the OH weapon thread, tried the sim with swapping trinkets for the thunder capacitor. My DPS went up for both of them using it, about the same amount, around 130dps, so the CG is still higher.

Last edited by mjgunn : 02/23/09 at 2:43 AM.
#1469SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zayrinoke
Originally Posted by jasonf View Post
From my short testing on target dummies with Wrathstrike MH and Webbed death off-hand (FT/FT) i noticed that using max rank flametongue on both weapons i lose about 15%-20% flametongue hits compared to my white hits. Using rank 9 on one of my weapons and rank 10 on the other i lose about 2%-5% flametongue hits. So my question is this:

Does the sim model the flametongue 'bug" (or hidden cooldown)? And if so, can i set it to use rank 9 flametongue on one of my weapons and rank 10 on the other?

Any opinions on this or if you could point me to the right direction if it has already been discussed would be appreciated.
The sim does not model it. In order to account for it when simming, simply subtract 33 Spellpower from your paper doll stats and then 12-15 DPS off your end result. Rank 9 should be on your mainhand, rank 10 on the offhand.
#1470SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jasonf
Originally Posted by Zayrinoke View Post
The sim does not model it. In order to account for it when simming, simply subtract 33 Spellpower from your paper doll stats and then 12-15 DPS off your end result. Rank 9 should be on your mainhand, rank 10 on the offhand.
Thanks, should have figured that out by checking the tooltips :p. Does the scaling remain the same though?
#1471SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
kaoticz
IDK if anyone else has noticed (I'm quite sure most have but it hasn't been noted yet and I'm OCD on noting things hehe), but yet another reason FT/FT sims much higher -- and no I'm not being oblivious to the obviousness of the scaling of FT, I realize this is a huge factor as well as other things -- but do you notice that lightning shield damage goes from around 100 give or take 20 dps to around 210 give or take 20 dps (obviously using static shock)? Thats a 100 dps increase on just LS damage. It's because both weapons are fast weapons and are proccing it more often. I even notice this in combat that I'm refreshing it much more often than with a traditional WF/FT setup.

Last edited by kaoticz : 02/22/09 at 1:41 PM. Reason: poor word choice
#1472SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by kaoticz View Post
IDK if anyone else has noticed (I'm quite sure most have but it hasn't been noted yet and I'm OCD on noting things hehe), but yet another reason FT/FT sims much higher -- and no I'm not being oblivious to the obviousness of the scaling of FT, I realize this is a huge factor as well as other things -- but do you notice that lightning shield damage goes from around 100 give or take 20 dps to around 210 give or take 20 dps (obviously using static shock)? Thats a 100 dps increase on just LS damage. It's because both weapons are fast weapons and are proccing it more often. I even notice this in combat that I'm refreshing it much more often than with a traditional WF/FT setup.
That's a misnomer.

The lightning shield damage boost you are seeing is from the additional spellpower not from the faster weapons. Keep in mind that Windfury Hits count as melee attacks so they can proc Lightning Shield while Flametongue hits can not. So even though you are using Windfury with a slower weapon you are hitting just as often, if not more often, due to those additional Windfury hits.
#1473SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
Does the sim assume LS procs can miss? Because it seems they can't, or if they do miss they don't show up in combat log at all. I did ~9000 swings on test dummy (that connected), along with another ~1000 WF attacks and had 568 LS procs, with ~4% spell miss (as shown by FT), and none of the LS show as missed or fully resisted. This was on the heroic dummy. Also in this run I had ~49% berserker uptime, and Procodile showed 176 procs and 1.76ppm for dual berserker but that doesn't count refreshes. This run had ~71% flurry uptime as well.

I downloaded Proculas and did a second test run on the L60 dummies, and did 9857 attacks on them with no weapon imbues or LS this time. Procodile reported 155 Berserker buffs and 1.72ppm without refreshes, however Proculas reported 303 procs including refreshes for a total of 3.36ppm over 90 minutes. Neither mod shows the uptime for dual berserker buffs unfortunately. This run had ~79% flurry uptime, no weapon imbues, and no special attacks, only WF and SoE totem for max haste and crit.

I did a few tests effectively naked wearing just weapons and a few items with the most hit and least crit on them. For this run I pulled [Pride] out of the bank that had mongoose on it to seperate out the mongoose and berserker procs. This run had no imbues, no totems, no specials, and ~41% flurry uptime. I observed a somewhat large gap between mongoose and berserking PPM rates, mongoose with 1.36ppm and berserking with 1.02ppm over 5000 seconds and ~6000 attacks, assuming thats just due to luck with mongoose and bad luck with berserking over a small set they could both still be in the 1.2ppm range, and they both average out there.

I had done another test prior to the above test with the wrong Procula version installed which only tracked mongoose and for that run it had mongoose at 1.11ppm with a 1hr test.

That doesn't change the fact that the full gear/haste version had ~1.7ppm x2 which is much harder to explain by a 90 minute lucky streak on both weapons, as it's ~41% higher than expected. Total average haste with 4pc T7 and flurry compensated for uptime, WF totem, item haste, and my [Meteorite Whetstone] averaged out with its uptime for the fight was ~67.4%, however if you take WF totem out of the equation then flurry + haste rating is ~39.5% haste. My naked haste including flurry was ~12%.

So this testing begs the following questions:
  1. Are we sure the ppm for mongoose and berserking is 1.2? From my mostly naked tests it seems in that area but possibly slightly lower.
  2. Are we sure haste effects don't affect weapon proc rate? 3.36ppm over 90 minutes with dual berserking seems to fall fairly far outside the probability of a lucky streak.
  3. If some haste does affect it, do all haste effects affect it? If so then 41% more procs for 67% more haste was an unlucky streak, if only some effects do, and WF totem isn't one of them, then 39% more more haste matches the observed proc rate. If #1 is right about the lower proc rate, and the proc rate is actually 1ppm, then the 67% haste matches fairly well with 1.7ppm.

I know it would have been much better to spec out of flurry to eliminate that factor from the naked tests but I frankly didn't feel like it and I don't think it affected the results too much, esp since I dumped as much crit as I could for those tests.

I have fairly extensive screenshots of the above test results if anybody cares to see them, both recount, procodile, and proculas data. If you really want to see them let me know and I can post them.

If anybody else cares to repeat these tests I recommend both proc monitoring addons since Procodile shows total uptime and Proculas counts refreshes for a more accurate proc count.
#1474SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
I'm not sure if this is widely known but I've seen most people say that [Mirror of Truth] has a 60second cooldown but all of my geared tests today actually showed it at 50seconds ICD, not sure how it is in sim.
#1475SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
It's more likely a 45 sec CD which I believe is how most of our calculations use it.
#1476SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
I'm loving Proculas and will be monitoring in raid situations where I've got higher crit and I'm actually attacking not just on auto attack. However several times I've seen it refresh exactly at 50 but never before. I agree it sounds odd and 45 is more common but most of the data I've seen posted about it has the ICD in the 60sec range. Thats what the trinket thread uses.
#1477SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Brynmor
So after some time spent with EhnSim I picked up a [Cudgel of Saronite Justice] and a [Librarian's Paper Cutter], enchanted them both with Accuracy and Flametongue and tried them out in a Sarth 3D 10 man tonight. I also replaced one of my trinkets with the [Thunder Capacitor] (I had vendored it long ago but opened a ticket and they actually gave it back to me).

The results were interesting. I did slighty higher DPS than I normally do, but of course one Sarth 3D 10 man isnt exactly the best medium to test out the setup. By next Wednesday I will have data using the same setup from 25 man raids to post, but in the mean time I thought clueing people who want to test FT/FT on to the Paper Cutter was worth a post.

Its easier to get than a [Webbed Death], and outperformed the [Sinister Revenge]I had been OHing previously. If any of you want to test FT/FT but don't have access to a fast OH immediately my testing on EhnSim showed the Paper Cutter to be not too far behind Webbed Death and was able to buy one from trade for 35g.

Edit: typos

Last edited by Brynmor : 02/22/09 at 11:47 PM.
#1478SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Graul
*edit; Nevermind. [Thunder Capacitor] doesn't seem to have a 2.5 second cooldown as the text would indicate.

Last edited by Graul : 02/23/09 at 9:29 AM.
#1479SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3IMB111
Originally Posted by Graul View Post
I also picked up [Thunder Capacitor] to exhange with [Mirror of Truth]. The Capacitor will also cap out at 128 DPS if it's actually supposed to release the bolt on the fourth charge. From eyeing it though it looks like the charge isn't released until your next spell crit after you have four charges. That lowers it to 102 DPS. Also, the lightning bolts from the trinket seem to be affected by your hit, but do not scale at all with spellpower. Does the Sim take this into account?
The cooldown is only applied when the charge is released, so you get much more damage fron this trinket. It also scales very well with crit.
#1480SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Graul
Originally Posted by IMB111 View Post
The cooldown is only applied when the charge is released, so you get much more damage fron this trinket. It also scales very well with crit.
Is that a bug or just poor wording on the trinket text? It says "Thunder Charge cannot be gained more often than once every 2.5 seconds". The charges are what you build up to release the bolt in the first place.
It also does not appear to launch a bolt as soon as you gain four stacks because I've seen the buff sitting for another second or two. I've also seen it disappear almost instantly as well. It seems like it does not launch until your 5th spell crit, but the only way to know for sure is to look though the combat log. Regardless, it's outperforming the Mirror without raid buffs.

Last edited by Graul : 02/23/09 at 8:21 AM.
#1481SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3IMB111
It's a mistake in the tooltip I guess and yes, it doeas indead release the charge on the fifth crit.
#1482SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xieon
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
[Tears of Bitter Anguish] What's the cooldown?
I've scoured potential locations for this answer, all of which could be taken for a grain of salt... The only mention of it is a random wowhead comment that it doesn't have a cooldown. Does anyone have this item that can sit down for any length of time and work out an idea of the cooldown? I'll start farming it this week.
#1483SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Adus
From the tests I've done so far, I believe the simulator has the correct values for the Thunder Capacitor. I put in my values with only my totems as buffs and swapped between it and Fury of the Five Flights. The Thunder Capacitor was 10dps behind Fury in situations where I only had my own buffs according to the sim. After doing 8 tests (each, 16 total) on the Heroic Training Dummy, actually swapping between the trinkets, the results were:

2769.67 dps average for the Capacitor

2780.87 for Fury of the Five Flights.

These results were achieved during roughly 5 minute attacking sessions against the dummy. The amount of damage done was divided by the number of seconds I attacked, rather than just going off the dps counter on Recount. Then the results were averaged. So it appears the Sim knows that it actually procs on the fifth charge and not the fourth. There were no factors that could skew the results as far as I know. It appears the Capacitor does in fact take your spell hit and crit into account, but it doesn't seem to be affected by spellpower or talents. Nor does it appear to eat Stormstrike charges.

According to the simulator, with buffs it'll scale a lot better than FotFF, resulting in about a 90 dps increase fully buffed. I'm no expert at this sort of thing, but if it's not affected by stormstrike, are we certain other buffs affect it, or is that just part of the mechanics of stormstrike that it isn't affected by other damage sources like trinkets?

Nevermind. As I was typing this, I was auto attacking the dummy and a druid debuffed it with Earth and Moon and it did increase the damage of the bolt procs.
#1484SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EvilGopher
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Recent In-Game Fixes

I'm sure your busy working on the sim already but can we get it updated to show the fix to the WF glyph. The tooltip now correctly states what it actually does.
#1485SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3crazyhammer
Yea I'm waiting on WF glyph update as well. Really like to see what the difference is between FT Glyph and the new WF glyph.
#1486SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Chriske
Originally Posted by mjgunn View Post
So, after reading so much about people finding fast mh spell dmg weapons running ft/ft working so well, I was lucky enough to find myself in a 10 man naxx where no one else wanted the hammer of the astral plane, so I nabbed it and ran to the test dummy. Threw FT 9 on the hammer (no enchant yet) in place of my CG, and FT 10 on my webbed death. With no buffs except for my totems (wf, soe, mana, ft), I beat on the dummy until I was oom after using SR, which gave me about a 3.5 minute test. Did it 5 times, averaged 2450 dps. Did the same with my CG, and ended up averaging 2375 dps. So, great, even with no enchant I just got a nice DPS increase which should only get bigger when raid buffed, or so I thought.

Punched my stats with the hammer into the sim, and simmed myself fully raid buffed with the CG, and again with the hammer, both multiple times, and am consistently finding myself going down ~ 130dps with the hammer. Configured the sim to have no buffs but my totems, and it's giving me the same results I got myself at the test dummy, hammer being better by ~ 75 dps. So, if the sim is correct, the hammer is better with no raid buffs, and CG is still better when fully buffed. Wanted to post my 2 config files, was hoping someone could double check them for me, make sure everything is right so I could make sure this is right for me.
The simulator may or may not be correct for the test above. The simulator simply does not represent the changes made on February 19th to the Windfury Weapon Glyph. (Removing the 40% AP bonus) Any test done at this time using WF Glyph overestimates your DPS by varying amounts depending on your gear.

Until the simulator has been updated to represent current mechanics all we can do is guess the line between WF/FT and FT/FT in a Raid buffed situation.
#1487SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Nicadimos
I cant seem to get this to work correctly, I put in my stats as the appear on my character sheet, then fill in for buffs. I see in the source code that it takes buffs into account and applies them to your stats. but it consistently gives me 1000 less dps than i actually put out in raids. It also seems to have my hit rating incorrect. I have 10.05% spell hit, on top of the DW specialization, this should put me way over spell hit, yet i still get 6% miss on the sim. If you catch something i've done wrong let me know, or have more questions I"ll edit this to help. Thanks.
#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			2000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				0	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				0	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			0	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		1	//{ 0 | 1 | 2 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	500	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		6
rotation_priority1		SR
rotation_priority2		MW5_LB
rotation_priority3		ES_ss
rotation_priority4		SS
rotation_priority5		LL
rotation_priority6		MT


##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			25.00	//%
armor				13083	
spell_miss			13.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		0/3925		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0/1260		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	0.0/2.0		//%, bloody frenzy, 2nd talent spec TBA
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		0/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	40.0/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	0.0/10.0	//%, improved scorch, winter's chill
spell_damage_debuff		0.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of elements, totem of wrath
spellpower_buff			280/280		//focus magic, improved divine spirit, flametongue totem, demonic pact
spell_hit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			0.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	0.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			52/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		178/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			60/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			elixir_of_major_agility
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			elixir_of_mighty_thoughts
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				-
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				spice_hot_talbuk
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }

misc_item			-
// { drums_of_battle | - }





###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race				       tauren	//{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed			2.60
oh_speed			2.60
mh_dps				143.5
oh_dps				143.5
mh_crit				25.34	//%
oh_crit				25.34	
mh_hit			        8.05	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit				8.05
mh_expertise_rating		9	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating		9
ap				2925	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
haste				4.82	//%
armor_penetration		0.00	//%
str				125
agi				673
int				368
spi				145
spellpower			877 //you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit			18.75	//%
spell_hit			10.05	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
max_mana			10000
mp5				0	//in combat

mh_imbue	 		windfury
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | - }

mh_enchant			mongoose
oh_enchant			mongoose
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | berserking | - }

mh_weapon			-
oh_weapon			-
//{ axe | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			sphere_of_red_dragons_blood
trinket2			mirror_of_truth
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  abacus_of_violent_odds | badge_of_tenacity |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | fury_of_the_five_flights |
//  grim_toll | loathebs_shadow | mirror_of_truth | 
//  the_skull_of_guldan | meteorite_whetstone | embrace_of_the_spider |
//  dying curse | illustration_of_the_dragon_soul |
//  sundial_of_the_exiled | forge_ember | incisor_fragment |
//  mark_of_the_war_prisoner | sphere_of_red_dragons_blood |
//  tome_of_arcane_phenomena | mark_of_norgannon | fezziks_pocketwatch |
//  thorny_rose_brooch | rune_of_finite_variation | bandits_insignia |
//  darkmoon_card_greatness | pendulum_of_telluric_currents |
//  vestige_of_haldor | twilight_serpent | - }

totem				totem_of_splintering
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | totem_of_splintering |
//  totem_of_ancestral_guidance | totem_of_the_void | skycall_totem | 
//  totem_of_hex | totem_of_dueling | totem_of_the_elemental_plane |
//  deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | hateful_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability |
//  savage_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | deadly_gladiators_totem_of_survival |
//  hateful_gladiators_totem_of_survival | savage_gladiators_totem_of_survival | - }

set_bonus			-
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness | desolation_battlegear |
//  skyshatter_harness_2 | skyshatter_harness_4 | skyshatter_regalia_2 |
//  skyshatter_regalia_4 | naxx_melee_2 | naxx_melee_4 | gladiators_earthshaker |
//  naxx_nuker_2 | naxx_nuker_4 | - }

metagem				-
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | 
//  chaotic_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyflare_diamond |
//  ember_skyflare_diamond | relentless_earthsiege_diamond | - }

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			windfury_weapon
glyph_major2			lightning_bolt
glyph_major3			stormstrike
glyph_major4			-

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-



#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge	5/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		0/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			5/5
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		        3/3
improved_stormstrike	        2/2
static_shock			        3/3
maelstrom_weapon	        5/5

convection			0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			5/5
call_of_flame			0/3
elemental_devastation	3/3
reverberation			3/5
elemental_focus		1/1
elemental_fury		0/5
call_of_thunder		0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/3
elemental_precision	0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath		0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire	0/3
shamanism			0/5

Last edited by Nicadimos : 02/23/09 at 6:14 PM.
#1488SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
More berserker proc rate testing.

L60 dummy, 1hr duration, self buffed with SoE, WF, and mana spring totem.

6918 melee attacks, 802 WF attacks, 702 storm strikes, 385 lava lashes.

Berserker uptime 54.5%, not a lot higher than auto attack, however the PPM changed considerably. I had 256 procs in 3605 seconds for

4.26ppm over the hour, or 0.9ppm higher than my auto attack test. I also had more haste due to my hyperspeed accelerators and totem of hex. Meteorite Whetstone uptime/ppm seemed about the same, Mirror uptime/ppm was a tiny bit higher.

The higher proc rate with the not much higher total uptime means there was a lot more refreshes obviously but I also have a feeling it affected the dual berserking uptime a good bit more than is represented. Unfortunately as I said before the mod doesn't track that.

I'd say this test with the other I did leans strongly toward a 1ppm rate on the enchant, however it is affected by haste.

I might do the test again sometime with my Pride again and test the overall uptimes for berserker and mongoose over an hour or so.

Assuming no server bugs and all SS's and LL's and OH melee attacks gave 1 FT attack, there were 2845 MH attacks and 4073 OH auto attacks. This gives 4809 OH attacks total and 3998 MH attacks. assuming the 1ppm rate I gave above and 2.6MH and 1.4OH that's 4.33% MH chance and 2.33% OH chance. That's 173MH procs and 112OH procs, for a total of 285 theoretical procs. So if my assumtions are right there's still 29 missing procs, but is within ~10% of the value. A number of procs could have been lost to same time procs from insta attacks or WF procs, and the server may have a cache and only send updates every few msec and if say an auto attack and SS both proc one maybe it only sends the one update, not sure there.

Assuming the 1.2ppm rate unaffected by haste then over 60 mins with dual berserking you're looking at 144, assuming 1.2ppm for specials is based off of base speed still that's 2.8% chance on OH specials and 5.2% for MH specials. That gives 60 MH procs and 21 OH procs on specials. This puts us off at -31ppm for the assumed 1.2 rate, and also assumes no dual procs that may have only shown as one in the log. being over 10% low with no way to count for the discrepancy doesn't sound right either.
#1489SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> The Windfury Glyph Change

Here is a mini Enhancement enchant update. I know you guys have been itching for this for awhile. It just took the designers some time to sit down and discuss the issue, and then I had to catch up with the discussion after being out.

1) The extra AP for the Windfury Weapon Glyph is not intentional and I believe has been hotfixed.

2) Our goal is WF / FT on main hand / offhand.

3) Our goal is Enhancement generally favors slow weapons for main hand / offhand.

4) To satisfy 2 & 3, we are normalizing flametongue's damage to weapon speed. If you use a fast weapon now for FT, your damage will come down. If you use a slow weapon, your damage will come up. Please keep that in mind as you continue to gear up preparing for patch 3.1.

5) Our intention with these changes is not to nerf Enhancement damage overall. However, we are concerned that Enhancement PvE damage is quite high (compared to where other classes are in the 3.1 space) so it's possible that we will end up lowering your damage slightly. But the changes outlined above are not intended to do that.

6) Overall, we are really happy with the basic attack rotation of Enhancement. Shamans are pushing the buttons we want them to push and generally doing what we expect. PvP utility is still something we are looking at however.
(e) It's raining sunshine, not only did we get that response and even with the threatened dps nerfs I'm still happy about the proposed changes, but I beat Malan to posting it as well.


Last edited by Rouncer : 02/23/09 at 6:32 PM.
#1490SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
GC posted that they're going to (finally) fix the FT scaling so that Enhancement prefers Slow/Slow again.
e; fb by rounce

Took em long enough, we've been raising that issue multiple times during Alpha and Beta.
#1491SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Daenerys
So it sounds like we should be shooting for Calamity/Angry Dread, assuming Blizzard makes the appropriate changes to get us back to slow/slow?
#1492SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Daenerys View Post
So it sounds like we should be shooting for Calamity/Angry Dread, assuming Blizzard makes the appropriate changes to get us back to slow/slow?
or possibly the 10 man fist since matched weapon speeds do seem to have some advantages in Flurry uptime if you can keep the weapons synced (too bad I have never seen it drop but at least I got a Angry Dread last week, my guild's second one to date).
#1493SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Daenerys
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
or possibly the 10 man fist since matched weapon speeds do seem to have some advantages in Flurry uptime if you can keep the weapons synced (too bad I have never seen it drop but at least I got a Angry Dread last week, my guild's second one to date).
Weapon syncing is a mechanic that I'm not terribly excited about, but I do have the Stray, so despite never seeing Dread (funny how that works!), I guess I at least have a viable option. I'd love to see some real-world tests on weapon syncing, but I'm afraid we need a longer PW-type fight to really see statistically significant results of comparisons between matched/unmatched.
#1494SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
Fixing flametongue's spellpower coefficient, by making it scale with weapon base speed was the best solution and I'm quite happy, that they do this, instead of some other crazy ideas. Now lets wait and see, what the exact scaling will be. I would say, 10% at a speed of 2.5 seconds should be a fair value.

Now if the would also let melee haste reduce windfury's internal cooldown, our mechanics would be fine finally.
#1495SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Tramana did some testing that was pretty conclusive that it is possible to keep weapons synced over a long period of time although I agree that relying on keeping them that way doesn't exactly thrill me and I will stick to my Angry Dread (if I could even manage to actually get a Stray) unless the weapon speed starts to matter more the the dps spread without taking that sync effect into account.
#1496SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
I rather liked the concept of fast OH = more FT/Static Shock damage, slow OH = more MW/LL/SS damage, but for equal stats speed matters little. From what I understood it was stats not speed that made Webbed Death the BiS OH and it wasn't far off from the next BiS item which was slow.
#1497SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Dragon-CR View Post
I rather liked the concept of fast OH = more FT/Static Shock damage, slow OH = more MW/LL/SS damage, but for equal stats speed matters little. From what I understood it was stats not speed that made Webbed Death the BiS OH and it wasn't far off from the next BiS item which was slow.

For Webbed Death is was the weapon's speed that made it BiS, the Flametongue damage that thing can generate far outweighed any loss in MW/LL/SS damage.
#1498SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Holyshyit
I wonder if the FT normalisation will be hotfixed in this reset or they are planning it for 3.1?

GC did announce recently that they want to cut down on the time that class has to wait for a fix to mechanics, i.e., not have to wait for a patch (major or otherwise) before any change is made.
#1499SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.5.9

1.5.9
-Removed ap bonus from wf glyph.
-Changed PPM of Mongoose, Executioner and Berserking to 1.2.
-Removed Glyph of Earth Shock, added Glyph of Shocking.
-Added homepage tab to GUI.

Because of the homepage tab, the GUI will try to connect to net.
#1500SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3panny
I'm pretty glad I didn't burn 3k arena points on a spellblade, but what does that mean for a slow spellpower mainhand? FT or WF on my Wraith Strike already give me similar results. I can imagine Ulduar is going to have exactly zero slow spellpower weapons.
#1501SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Caladiera
Hi Tukez & Mac compilers,

I was trying to compile the 1.5.9 release for a Mac using the boost_1_37_0 and I got the following error:

error: config/no_tr1/utility.hpp: No such file or directory

When I tried using the boost folder provided in the source I got:

error: boost/config/compiler/gcc.hpp: No such file or directory
error: boost/config/stdlib/libstdcpp.hpp: No such file or directory
error: boost/config/platform/macros.hpp: No such file or directory

Ideas?
#1502SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
rava
Proposed alteration to sim from PTR notes:

* Unleashed Rage - Reduced to 3 points, down from 5. Each point now also increases your total Agility by 1/2/3%.

Last edited by rava : 02/24/09 at 2:28 AM.
#1503SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
I made a 3.1 thread - please move discussion of the notes to there unless it is specific to the Sim.
#1504SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Caladiera View Post
Hi Tukez & Mac compilers,

I was trying to compile the 1.5.9 release for a Mac using the boost_1_37_0 and I got the following error:

error: config/no_tr1/utility.hpp: No such file or directory

When I tried using the boost folder provided in the source I got:

error: boost/config/compiler/gcc.hpp: No such file or directory
error: boost/config/stdlib/libstdcpp.hpp: No such file or directory
error: boost/config/platform/macros.hpp: No such file or directory

Ideas?
With the included boost dir, you shouldn't have to pay any attention to boost when compiling eg. you don't have to download or install it in anyway. I made the change in 1.5.6. I have only tested it on my computer with Vista.

I can't tell much about those errors..gcc.hpp and macros.hpp are included in the dir. libstdcpp.hpp is not.
#1505SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
It's from following the compile instructions in xCode. Unfortunately I tried it multiple ways, both specifying the lib path and not specifying it. Neither worked for whatever reason. I've moved on to a windows system though so I'm not going to be able to figure out the OS X stuff anymore.


[late edit] finally having a system that can multi-thread the sim is fantastic. So today I tested out the rawr.enhance export option (works well) and checked on a few things. Despite the misgivings of some toward Magma Totem, I found that with 2/3 Call of Fire that prioritizing MT over LS, LL and even ES resulted in about 30-40 dps improvement each bump upward. The first decrease in DPS was when I prioritized over SS, and that was only about a 10 dps drop. With that in mind I shifted a third point to 3/3 Call of Fire (pulled the point from Static Shock to 2/3), and was very surprised to find that Static Shock 3/3 definitely out performs 3/3 Call of Fire despite the enormous dps presence of Magma Totem.

Last edited by Malan : 02/24/09 at 9:22 PM.
#1506SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Odai
i was just wondering if i have flametongue on my weapon do i include the extra SP and crit i get into my base stats or do i need to remove the flametongue enchant them use those stats?
#1507SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
remove all buffs and weapon imbues before copying your paperdoll stats
#1508SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
Well Malan, you have to remember you are comparing ~15% damage of fire totem to all the damage of static shock. Or if you go by last point then it is 50% increase of damage (4->6 is 50%) vs less than 5% increase of fire totem damage.

Odai, remove all weapon enchants before the export. Simulator automatically adds the FT spellpower to your stats.
#1509SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Couldn't OSX compile ZThread? That sounds weird. It's just a wrapper lib anyway.

mathiasm@zerg:/tmp$ ldd ~/Download/ZThread/lib/libZThread-2.3.so.2
        libpthread.so.0 => /lib64/libpthread.so.0 (0x00002abdde88c000)
        librt.so.1 => /lib64/librt.so.1 (0x00002abddeaa7000)
        libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libstdc++.so.6 (0x00002abddecb0000)
        libm.so.6 => /lib64/libm.so.6 (0x00002abddefb1000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib64/libc.so.6 (0x00002abddf234000)
        libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib64/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00002abddf58a000)
        /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x0000003630400000)
#1510SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Daenerys
Is [Formula: Enchant Weapon - Giant Slayer] available for testing in the sim? It's looking like a decent number of bosses in Ulduar are going to be classified as giants, but I've never seen any information about that enchant and what it does/how good it might be.
#1511SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Juzluu
I know this is the wrong place, and Malan/Rounced are going to barbeque me for it, but I'm having a problem with Shock and Awe, and I don't know where else to post this, I can't find the Shock and Awe thread, which I thought (?) existed at some point. Anyways, I rely heavily on the combo points below the priority frame for MW; on fights that require your attention to be elsewhere, it's nice to be able to see your stacks in the middle of the screen. However, since the latest patch, the combo points have been badly screwed up, it seems like whenever I leave combat, however many stacks of MW I have stay on my combo bars, and never change again. For example, if I left combat, and I had 3 charges of MW, and they expired, when I entered combat again, I would still have 3 combo points according to Shock and Awe, and it wouldn't change, it would then be permanently stuck at 3 combo points until I re-log. I've already deleted the mod and re-downloaded it, and it's the more recent version. Any thoughts? Help would be greatly appreciated.
#1512SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Broadus
Every time i try to open the gui i get an error that says "the application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000135)."

Any suggestions?
#1513SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Juzluu View Post
I know this is the wrong place, and Malan/Rounced are going to barbeque me for it,
Try checking the UI forum.
#1514SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
my sim has gone crazy, I started getting wierd stats like:

EP value DPS total DPS difference

baseline -1339371
ap 1 -51 -1341431 -2060
crit rating 3 -132 -1342020 -2649
hit rating 1 -70 -1340778 -1407
expertise rating 3 -132 -1340457 -1086
haste rating -0 12 -1339121 250
armor penetration rating -0 14 -1339084 287
spellpower -0 16 -1338989 382
mh dps -6 328 -1336911 2460
oh dps -4 203 -1337847 1524
strength 1
agility 0
intelligence* 2
spirit -0 0 0 1339371
mana -0 0 0 1339371
mp5 -0 0 0 1339371

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1, CritRating=3, HitRating=1, HasteRating=-0, ExpertiseRating=3, ArmorPenetration=-0, SpellDamage=-0, MainHandDps=-6, OffHandDps=-4, Strength=1, Agility=0, Intellect=2, Spirit=-0, Mana=-0, Mp5=-0 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?C...1&arp=-0&Exp=3

elapsed simulation time: 11000h
elapsed real time: 17s
simulation speed: 2287430x

Thing is.. I didn't change anything, any ideas?
#1515SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zanpaku
I got some questions, that bother me and maybe someone could give me the answers.

Here my current stats.

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         300
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    1
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           20
ep_crit_rating                  10
ep_hit_rating                   10
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 10
ep_armor_penetration_rating     10
ep_spellpower                   10
ep_dps                          7
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    0

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              MW4_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              MT
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              LL

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               
shadow_resistance               

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            snapper_extreme
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         32.06
oh_crit                         32.06
mh_hit                          10.77
oh_hit                          10.77
mh_expertise_rating             209
oh_expertise_rating             209
ap                              3849
haste                           3.6
armor_penetration               4.42
str                             131
agi                             804
int                             521
spi                             155
spellpower                      1154
spell_crit                      24.81
spell_hit                       13.46
max_mana                        9876
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        fury_of_the_five_flights

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Here the output.

MH:
miss                208445         8.99%
dodge               5808           0.25%
glancing            575122         24.81%
hit                 442295         19.08%
crit                1086747        46.87%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.69%
procs/swings        15.36%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               2389           0.29%
hit                 415508         49.81%
crit                416223         49.90%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               988            0.25%
hit                 198191         50.05%
crit                196797         49.70%

OH:
miss                216645         8.98%
dodge               6027           0.25%
glancing            598208         24.79%
hit                 462323         19.16%
crit                1129600        46.82%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1632285        54.10%
crit                1384709        45.90%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               962            0.24%
hit                 198166         50.17%
crit                195860         49.59%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 256740         54.06%
crit                218173         45.94%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               1149           0.26%
hit                 217533         50.12%
crit                215304         49.61%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 321023         54.18%
crit                271508         45.82%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 45.02

flurry uptime                  88.71%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   82.29%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              40.28%
oh enchant uptime              35.47%
trinket1 uptime                20.56%
trinket2 uptime                0.00%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      -1.#J%
mp5                 0.00      -1.#J%
replenishment       0.00      -1.#J%
unrelenting storm   0.00      -1.#J%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      -1.#J%
shamanistic rage    0.00      -1.#J%
mana potion         0.00      -1.#J%
misc potion         0.00      -1.#J%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2163.28   34.08%    78.85
windfury            955.78    15.06%    6.95
flametongue         520.48    8.2%      50.28
stormstrike         417.24    6.57%     6.60      36.36     18.98%
lava lash           230.44    3.63%     7.23      14.04     7.33%
magma totem         528.93    8.33%     2.89      53.69     28.02%
earth shock         543.67    8.57%     7.92      30.03     15.68%
lightning bolt      987.09    15.55%    9.88      57.47     29.99%

DPS                 6346.91
MPS                 191.59
MP2min              22991.26
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 3.06s
simulation speed: 1175702x
First of all before i start with my questions, i've to excuse for my bad grammar, because english isnt my native language.

ok here we go.
When i play arround with the sim...

1. why is totem of hex the best choice for me, when everyone claims the opposite.
2. why does the current windfury glyph do more dps than any other choice like LB, LS or LL
3. why do i make more dps ,ingame and in the sim, with a slow offhand (like 3.3k dps selfbuffed at heroic doll) instead of webbed death ( 3.2k dps)
4. why do i get such strange numbers, when i have Bandits Insignia equipped

white               2076.75   -0.43%    78.85
windfury            923.60    -0.18%    6.95
flametongue         507.46    -0.1%     50.28
stormstrike         400.40    -0.07%    6.60      36.35     18.99%
lava lash           221.33    -0.04%    7.23      14.03     7.33%
magma totem         519.90    -0.1%     2.89      53.69     28.05%
earth shock         531.75    -0.1%     7.92      29.93     15.63%
lightning bolt      959.61    -0.19%    9.86      57.42     30.00%
misc                -482901.69101.29%   1.23
I hope u can help me, cause atm i dunno who i can trust or if the sim isnt reliable.
#1516SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
1, 2 I'm having the same results about those, and I'm not sure where did you get that everyone is claiming that hex is the wrong totem, never seen someone saying stuff like that. 4. you're missing arcane resistance from the config file and BI does arcane damage.
#1517SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Duscha
Optimal Set

I'm always looking for the best gear set available and I want you to help me if anything out could beat this:

[Valorous Earthshatter Faceguard]: [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond], [Precise Scarlet Ruby], [Arcanum of Torment]
[Favor of the Dragon Queen]: [Precise Scarlet Ruby]
[Valorous Earthshatter Shoulderguards]: [Greater Inscription of the Axe], [Precise Dragon's Eye]
[Drape of the Deadly Foe]: Major Agility
[Valorous Earthshatter Chestguard]: Powerful Stats, [Precise Scarlet Ruby], [Rigid Dragon's Eye]
[Slime Stream Bands]: Greater Assault, [Rigid Dragon's Eye], [Precise Scarlet Ruby]
[Frosted Adroit Handguards]: [Bright Scarlet Ruby], Crusher
[Torn Web Wrapping]: [Eternal Belt Buckle], [Precise Scarlet Ruby]
[Valorous Earthshatter War-Kilt]: [Icescale Leg Armor], [Precise Scarlet Ruby], [Pristine Monarch Topaz]
[Boots of the Renewed Flight]: Icewalker
[Surge Needle Ring], [Ring of Invincibility]
[Mirror of Truth], [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Calamity's Grasp]: Berserking
[The Stray]: Berserking
[Deadly Gladiator's Totem of Indomitability]

The summarized set can be found here: Chardev.

explanatory notes:

- I'll just aim for 6.25% expertise even if it's not capped. I watched the dodges seriously for a long time and I made the following conclusion: 0.25% less expertise just leads to 0.1% white dodges and 0% yellow dodges. Maybe I'm just lucky, but give it a try.
- Otherwise I have few haste as possible taken. As a result the windfury damage increases rapidly.
- Already pre patch 3.01 [The Stray] is simmed BiS for me.

Here the stats.
simulation_time                 15000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         25
max_lag                         50
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       500
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    300

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              MT
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              SR
rotation_priority8              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.25
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            dalaran_clam_chowder
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         34.5
oh_crit                         34.5
mh_hit                          11.28
oh_hit                          11.28
mh_expertise_rating             205
oh_expertise_rating             205
ap                              3762
haste                           3.63
armor_penetration               4.4
str                             135
agi                             901
int                             463
spi                             155
spellpower                      1129
spell_crit                      25.75
spell_hit                       14
max_mana                        11060
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Here the output.
MH:
miss                3633776        9.73%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            9330734        25.00%
hit                 5575521        14.94%
crit                18790139       50.33%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.67%
procs/swings        15.27%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 6169694        46.64%
crit                7059292        53.36%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2801106        46.76%
crit                3189060        53.24%

OH:
miss                3615606        9.69%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            9287127        24.88%
hit                 5571016        14.92%
crit                18856421       50.51%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 26025732       55.19%
crit                21128164       44.81%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2798981        46.73%
crit                3191185        53.27%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4375560        55.20%
crit                3551044        44.80%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 3466763        46.54%
crit                3982403        53.46%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4290392        55.16%
crit                3487310        44.84%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 6630135        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 48.16

flurry uptime                  95.92%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   80.60%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              42.38%
oh enchant uptime              38.00%
trinket1 uptime                32.51%
trinket2 uptime                18.33%
totem uptime                   82.77%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 0.00      0.00%
replenishment       0.00      0.00%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      100.00%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1833.52   29.98%    82.96
windfury            802.83    13.13%    7.35
flametongue         556.05    9.09%     52.39
stormstrike         337.18    5.51%     6.66      36.67     15.57%
lava lash           276.93    4.53%     8.28      22.80     9.68%
magma totem         578.57    9.46%     3.00      55.79     23.69%
earth shock         609.19    9.96%     8.81      56.91     24.17%
lightning bolt      837.86    13.7%     8.64      63.32     26.89%
lightning shield    283.65    4.64%     0.82      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 6115.78
MPS                 235.49
MP2min              28258.52
MRPS                9.11
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 15000.00h
elapsed real time: 20.56s
simulation speed: 2626203x
#1518SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Duscha View Post
- I'll just aim for 6.25% expertise even if it's not capped. I watched the dodges seriously for a long time and I made the following conclusion: 0.25% less expertise just leads to 0.1% white dodges and 0% yellow dodges. Maybe I'm just lucky, but give it a try.
Not sure if you are aware but they found that expertise doesn't really work in staggered amounts even though that is how it is displayed on the paper doll. So if your numbers are based on have 25 expertise on the paper doll but actually have say 210 expertise rating that actually equals out to 6.4% dodge reduction not the 6.25% dodge reduction that is shown on the paper doll. Which would explain your testing results so if you want the sim to be accurate then take the Boss dodge value back up to 6.5%.
#1519SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Duscha
I got stable 205 expertise rating for several weeks and the results were always the same: 0.1% white dodges and rarely some Windfury dodges even on a whole Naxxramas run. Finally are 18 attackpower more valuable than the last 9 expertise. The sim can't calculate it properly.
#1520SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Duscha View Post
I got stable 205 expertise rating for several weeks and the results were always the same: 0.1% white dodges and rarely some Windfury dodges even on a whole Naxxramas run. Finally are 18 attackpower more valuable than the last 9 expertise. The sim can't calculate it properly.
Rarely some windfury dodges?

Every missed Windfury is a lot of lost damage. If you want to make the Sim as accurate as possible then you need to give the proper dodge value or you are just dicking around. If you want to try to take being 0.0019% over 6.25% into account then just reduce the value of boss dodge to 6.4981 and then the results will be perfectly accurate.

Think about it this way. You are talking about a missed dodge or two in a multi-hour Naxx as being a representative sample. The sim as you have it set up is running 15,000 hours for you and if you have missed a single dodge with 6.25% then the cap is higher then that. Give the sim the correct value because garbage in equals garbage out. As for whether 18 AP is more valuable then 9 expertise that really is a personal determination that you really have to make for yourself.
#1521SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
Zanpaku, it seems u have solved my problem, it was bandits insignia that was making my sim go crazy with all the wierd ep values, just like ur's, guess its a bug?
#1522SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
Is there a guide to compiling the sim on the PC if we want to make some changes? Everything I've seen in this thread and on the official site are for compiling for mac.
#1523SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zanpaku
Originally Posted by rastotem View Post
Zanpaku, it seems u have solved my problem, it was bandits insignia that was making my sim go crazy with all the wierd ep values, just like ur's, guess its a bug?
No its not a bug. Its like Aximous said few posts before, i just forgot to input the arcan resi. Now it works perfect. But its quite irritating how weak the trinket seems to be. Fury of the five Flights makes 100 dps more than Bandits Insignia in the sim. At the doll i get nearly the same dps, but Bandits Insignia just proccs as bad as in the sim, so...

Here my results with Bandits Insignia:

MH:
miss                208651         9.00%
dodge               5774           0.25%
glancing            577167         24.90%
hit                 443264         19.12%
crit                1083495        46.74%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.70%
procs/swings        15.37%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               2318           0.28%
hit                 417257         50.00%
crit                414971         49.72%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               951            0.24%
hit                 199104         50.29%
crit                195854         49.47%

OH:
miss                217149         9.00%
dodge               6076           0.25%
glancing            599474         24.85%
hit                 460735         19.10%
crit                1129302        46.81%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1631609        54.09%
crit                1384759        45.91%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               955            0.24%
hit                 198489         50.26%
crit                195514         49.50%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 257443         54.19%
crit                217629         45.81%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               1125           0.26%
hit                 217488         50.11%
crit                215366         49.63%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 320361         54.05%
crit                272326         45.95%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 45.04

flurry uptime                  88.69%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   82.35%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              40.26%
oh enchant uptime              35.38%
trinket1 uptime                20.56%
trinket2 uptime                0.00%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      -1.#J%
mp5                 0.00      -1.#J%
replenishment       0.00      -1.#J%
unrelenting storm   0.00      -1.#J%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      -1.#J%
shamanistic rage    0.00      -1.#J%
mana potion         0.00      -1.#J%
misc potion         0.00      -1.#J%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2076.30   33.53%    78.85
windfury            922.56    14.9%     6.95
flametongue         507.51    8.2%      50.27
stormstrike         400.33    6.46%     6.60      36.36     18.98%
lava lash           221.30    3.57%     7.23      14.04     7.33%
magma totem         519.68    8.39%     2.89      53.69     28.03%
earth shock         531.41    8.58%     7.92      29.97     15.64%
lightning bolt      960.67    15.51%    9.88      57.52     30.03%
misc                52.68     0.85%     1.23

DPS                 6192.43
MPS                 191.57
MP2min              22988.02
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 3.03s
simulation speed: 1187726x
and now with FotfF:

MH:
miss                208423         8.99%
dodge               5715           0.25%
glancing            576077         24.85%
hit                 443849         19.14%
crit                1084314        46.77%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.73%
procs/swings        15.40%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               2436           0.29%
hit                 416564         49.83%
crit                416994         49.88%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               991            0.25%
hit                 199194         50.31%
crit                195774         49.44%

OH:
miss                216778         8.98%
dodge               5946           0.25%
glancing            598929         24.82%
hit                 462067         19.15%
crit                1129040        46.79%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1632544        54.11%
crit                1384488        45.89%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               927            0.23%
hit                 198146         50.17%
crit                195895         49.60%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 257369         54.19%
crit                217613         45.81%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               1115           0.26%
hit                 217774         50.17%
crit                215181         49.57%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 319682         53.99%
crit                272442         46.01%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 44.99

flurry uptime                  88.66%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   82.36%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              40.42%
oh enchant uptime              35.36%
trinket1 uptime                20.55%
trinket2 uptime                0.00%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      -1.#J%
mp5                 0.00      -1.#J%
replenishment       0.00      -1.#J%
unrelenting storm   0.00      -1.#J%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      -1.#J%
shamanistic rage    0.00      -1.#J%
mana potion         0.00      -1.#J%
misc potion         0.00      -1.#J%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2161.80   34.06%    78.85
windfury            957.80    15.09%    6.97
flametongue         520.47    8.2%      50.28
stormstrike         416.74    6.57%     6.60      36.36     18.99%
lava lash           230.44    3.63%     7.23      14.03     7.33%
magma totem         528.93    8.33%     2.89      53.68     28.03%
earth shock         543.26    8.56%     7.92      29.94     15.64%
lightning bolt      987.86    15.56%    9.87      57.47     30.01%

DPS                 6347.31
MPS                 191.48
MP2min              22977.94
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 3.20s
simulation speed: 1123946x
#1524SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zanpaku
It is 3/6/9 expertise. Not sure where the % came from. It isn't in our tooltips at the moment.
That would be awesome.
#1525SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
Something weird that I have noticed, if write that I have 13.24% spell hit chance, along with Shadow Priest debuff that gives an extra 3% hit, making it 16.24% I get the "hit goes past caps" while as far as I know hit is capped at 17%, is there something I am missing?
#1526SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Woyzeck
Originally Posted by rastotem View Post
Something weird that I have noticed, if write that I have 13.24% spell hit chance, along with Shadow Priest debuff that gives an extra 3% hit, making it 16.24% I get the "hit goes past caps" while as far as I know hit is capped at 17%, is there something I am missing?
Your hit + the hit added in the EP calculation go past the cap
#1527SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
Oh didn't think of that one , so I want to reduce my hit ep? and if so by how much? at the moment its a value of 20.
#1528SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Just use a negative value.
#1529SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Panamah
I must be doing something wrong. I'm trying to use the simulator. I have two rogue weapons because nothing more shammy-like has dropped for me yet and their DPS was vastly better than my blue weapons. So, with simulation I found I got better DPS with FT on both and it out does my DPS using my 130 dps weapon MH with WF (in the simulation).

So today I was playing and plugged in the values for Calamity's Grasp and Angry Dread, using WF/FT. It's about the same as the numbers I was getting on my two daggers with FT/FT. Here's my armory: Me with two knives

Am I doing something wrong in the simulator or is this just the way it is with WF and FT these days? Also, the calculated DPS is quite a lot lower than I'm actually doing on Patchwerk. I'm doing 3900ish on him and the simulator has me around 3067. I know I'm not perfect on my rotation and I forget to refresh Magma totem sometimes, so I know I can do even better.

Here's my config file with the knives. I just changed weapon speed and DPS for the slow weapon tests (didn't bother to fuss with all the stats it'd change figuring it'd be minor). Oh yes, I changed over to Windfury glyph from Flametongue too.

Thanks for your help.

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        1.8
oh_speed                        1.5
mh_dps                          171.1
oh_dps                          156.7
mh_crit                         24.81
oh_crit                         24.81
mh_hit                          12.08
oh_hit                          12.08
mh_expertise_rating             181
oh_expertise_rating             181
ap                              3238
haste                           7.41
armor_penetration               0
str                             121
agi                             763
int                             433
spi                             145
spellpower                      1486
spell_crit                      17.53
spell_hit                       15.1
max_mana                        10611
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        flametongue
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        sphere_of_red_dragons_blood

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike
ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#1530SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
If that's the full config, then you don't have any buffs checked, which would cause your simulated DPS to be pretty low, so you should definitely do that.
#1531SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Panamah
Originally Posted by Xoya View Post
If that's the full config, then you don't have any buffs checked, which would cause your simulated DPS to be pretty low, so you should definitely do that.
I left off the other stuff, here it is:
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    0
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         3
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES_SS
rotation_priority3              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 2/2
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -
Curious as to why FT/FT on fast weapons seems to be on par with the WF/FT on typical shammy weapons.
#1532SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Butakuti
rotation_priority_count 3
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 ES_SS
rotation_priority3 LL
There is the issue, you are only ever having the sim cast MW5_LB and LL with that rotation. Make sure to add SS, LS and SR to the rotation, something like this:

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              MT
rotation_priority5              ES_SS
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS
This way it's using all your DPS abilities and refreshing magma totem. Should give you a much better picture of your max DPS.
#1533SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Panamah
Ah! Ok, I wasn't understanding all the abbreviations. I'll give that a shot.
rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              MT
rotation_priority5              ES_SS
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS
What is SR? LS is lightning shield? SS must be stormstrike but I figured I had it covered with ES_SS.

Ok, reran with your priorities and the results are nicely humbling for me.

Last edited by Panamah : 03/02/09 at 11:31 PM.
#1534SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quaunaut
Originally Posted by Panamah View Post
Ah! Ok, I wasn't understanding all the abbreviations. I'll give that a shot.
rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              MT
rotation_priority5              ES_SS
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS
What is SR? LS is lightning shield? SS must be stormstrike but I figured I had it covered with ES_SS.

Ok, reran with your priorities and the results are nicely humbling for me.
Shamanistic Rage. Yes, LS is Lightning Shield. ES_SS if I remember right is to ES only if the SS debuff is on.
#1535SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3draizen
es_ss is for better use of the stormstrike debuff, here my rotation

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              LL
so if there is an stormstrike charge left on the mob, you shock before stormstrike, to get one charge "more".
leaving ES completly out of the rotation is running into a tiny dps decrease for me in several 10k test, just sim it for your own fits
#1536SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Panamah
Thanks for the help getting the rotation right in the sim.

I'm surprised to find I'm still getting that my two FT/FT daggers sim better than slow/slow WF/FT by about 90 dps.

1.6/1.5 FTW/FTW/FTG = 5135 (flametongue weapon, flametongue glyph)
2.6/1.5 FTW/FTW/FTG = 5027
2.6/1.5 WFW/FTW/WFG = 5042
#1537SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
I wouldn't really worry about it too much. Flametongue's coefficient is going to scale with weapon speed in 3.1 and right now it's bugged on the PTR and doesn't get any spellpower from MQ. So fast weapons are going to be horrible with Flametongue in 3.1 and if the bug with MQ doesn't get fixed you won't be using FT on either of your weapon's anyway. No matter what their speed.
#1538SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Panamah
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I wouldn't really worry about it too much. Flametongue's coefficient is going to scale with weapon speed in 3.1 and right now it's bugged on the PTR and doesn't get any spellpower from MQ. So fast weapons are going to be horrible with Flametongue in 3.1 and if the bug with MQ doesn't get fixed you won't be using FT on either of your weapon's anyway. No matter what their speed.
Ok, I won't worry. They're all I have to deal with as far as weapons anyway. Hopefully some proper shaman weapons will drop for me before 3.1 goes live!
#1539SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Chrizz
I'm seeing some pretty odd results when trying to sim my stats using the Greater Speed enchant to cloak, and without it. Oddly I'm consitently finding a measly 12-14 dps decrease when I sim with the cloak enchant rather than with no enchant at all. I've ran multiple sims for both scenarios, and increased the simulation time from 5000h-10000h-15000h. The results never vary by more than 2 DPS regardless of how many times I run it or how long I sim for, and the only difference between the two configs is an additional 1.46% to haste. Could anyone clue me in is to why my dps might decrease by increasing my haste rating from 2.96% to 4.42%, leaving all other stats the same?

The config I'm using is:
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           50
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   0
ep_expertise                    0
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   30
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       50
ep_mp5                          10

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1		SR
rotation_priority2		MW5_LB
rotation_priority3		SS
rotation_priority4		ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6		MT
rotation_priority7              LS


miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         34.14
oh_crit                         34.14
mh_hit                          11.25
oh_hit                          11.25
mh_expertise_rating             216
oh_expertise_rating             216
ap                              3814
haste                           4.42
armor_penetration               4.41
str                             131
agi                             923
int                             493
spi                             154
spellpower                      1144
spell_crit                      25.3
spell_hit                       14.06
max_mana                        11511
mp5                             95

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond
glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#1540SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
OnosKT
It is called the Windfury Chasm

If you continue adding haste you will see your DPS increase. Using your config file as base:

2.96% haste - 6051
4.42% haste - 6036
4.42% haste - 6077
4.88% haste - 6088

If you want the background for it:

http://elitistjerks.com/990992-post8.html

Last edited by OnosKT : 03/04/09 at 1:13 PM.
#1541SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
It is called the Windfury Chasm

Just for the sake of clarity, Windfury Chasm is a phenomenon only observed in the perfect world of the sim. In the game there is too much variability from latency and from server mechanics to cause such a precise drop off. Easiest thing when you get a result like that is to put a negative number into the EP for haste and then use the EP values from that sim run to evaluate the gear/enchant.
#1542SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3trunghung
Please help analyze my guildie

Hi,

I have an enhancement in my guild. his gear is decent mostly 25-man naxx gear. For some reason his dps is consistently low (around 1600 dps or below). can someone take a look at our wws and tell me what he can do to improve his dps. Can a really bad connection hammer his dps that badly? I think he told us that his internet connection is terrible, is there a macro he can use to alleviate his lag issue? his id is lahja on kilrogg (us). here are a few links to our wws

Patchwerk: Patchwerk
Razuvious: Instructor Razuvious (his best dps 2800)

appreciate your help.
#1543SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
◊ Malan
Originally Posted by trunghung View Post
Hi,

I have an enhancement in my guild. his gear is decent mostly 25-man naxx gear. For some reason his dps is consistently low (around 1600 dps or below). can someone take a look at our wws and tell me what he can do to improve his dps. Can a really bad connection hammer his dps that badly? I think he told us that his internet connection is terrible, is there a macro he can use to alleviate his lag issue? his id is lahja on kilrogg (us). here are a few links to our wws

Patchwerk: Patchwerk
Razuvious: Instructor Razuvious (his best dps 2800)

appreciate your help.
At first glance on your patchwerk parse it looks like he is:
1) Not dropping any totems other than Mana Spring - no SoE, no WF
2) Only doing DPS for half the fight. He used about 1 minutes worth of abilities in your almost 3 minute parse.
3) Has no imbue on his offhand or he's trying to use a 2H like an idiot
4) He isn't spell hit capped

Conclusion: He's pulling your chain, doesn't appear to have any idea what he's doing and you should probably remove him from your guild or at least not let him raid.

(Also your question had absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread)

Last edited by Malan : 03/04/09 at 5:25 PM.
#1544SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jasonf
He is using WF/WF and no magma / searing totem.

Hes too far from the expertise cap and hes lacking an enchant and the belt socket also. Tell him to replace his ap gems with expertise ones and start using Flametongue on his offhand.

Honestly though i doubt that will make up for the 2500 DPS hes lacking.
#1545SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3◊ Malan
I'll bet you 5 bucks that he is not using any imbue on his offhand.

You can see MH and OH procs in the parse


Also what sort of stupid spec is he using? 8/60/3? What the hell is that?
#1546SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3nataku
His gear looks ok, though he's not expertise capped. He has a pretty weird spec of 8/60/3 as well.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Not going at least 15 pts into elemental is a bad idea.
#1547SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Panamah
He only used Stormstrike 8 times and Earthshock 7 times during a 3 min fight? No Lava Lash at all. No magma totem. It looks like he must be watching TV or something because he sure isn't doing much of anything else. At best, he's clueless in how to play. At worst, he's going afk. You might want to have him read this: Shaman: Enhancement and he should get ShockAndAwe addon and TotemTimers is another good one, but that'll only help if he's clueless.
#1548SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
He's not AFK, he's EBAY.
#1549SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Jayqubee
So i'm somewhat new to enhancement, but I really want to be able to get the most dps i can out of my gear. I've studied the enhancement think tank article but because of how complex stats work with enhancement there seems to be no static EP values.
So for this sim will i need a particular program to run it, and do i download all of the listed files at Downloads - enhsim - Google Code ? Sorry if im not supposed to ask or if this is the wrong place, kinda new to this.

Last edited by Jayqubee : 03/04/09 at 7:16 PM.
#1550SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Jayqubee View Post
So i'm somewhat new to enhancement, but I really want to be able to get the most dps i can out of my gear. I've studied the enhancement think tank article but because of how complex stats work with enhancement there seems to be no static EP values.
So for this sim will i need a particular program to run it, and do i download all of the listed files at Downloads - enhsim - Google Code ? Sorry if im not supposed to ask or if this is the wrong place, kinda new to this.
Take a look at the sim wikidot, it has a guide for getting things set up. LINK!
#1551SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jayqubee
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
Take a look at the sim wikidot, it has a guide for getting things set up. LINK!
tyvm!
#1552SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Dragon-CR
Ok I couldn't sleep and nothing else was going on so I spent another hour in front of a L60 test dummy testing weapon enchant proc rates and I came to the same conclusion I did before. The sim is still doing it wrong, less wrong, but still wrong. This time I equiped my old OH with mongoose on it to seperate out the MH and OH weapon enchant procs.

I was a big dummy and forgot to start logging and reset recount, which for whatever reason failed to record the fight so I don't have as much detail as before but I do plan on redoing this test later this week on PTR to take advantage of the ISS mana regen to eliminate my OOM time so I'll be sure to grab both of those then. I did remember to clear both Proculas and Procodile before hand however and neither of the previous two omissions change the reason I think the sim is still doing it wrong. The sim is assuming a static 1.2ppm unaffected by haste, however I observed on this 1hr run 2.78ppm on berserking (MH) and 2.12ppm on mongoose (OH). This gave a 48% uptime on berserking and 42% on mongoose. The sim shows the expected uptimes to be 42% and 36% respectively, pretty much 6% lower on both accounts.

From what I've seen there's no hard evidence to support the 1.2ppm, no haste effect beyond somebody in some other thread said so. The other thread had zero testing done in game with varying degrees of haste from what I read. I've done one test with minimal haste showing ~1.1-1.2ppm rate there and numerous tests with varying degrees of haste all showing markedly increased proc rates. Assuming the static 1.2ppm rate devalues both haste and enchant contribution. If I'm wrong and just had 5 or 6 ridiculously lucky streaks in a row then by all means show me the money, err data. If I'm right and it is a 1ppm affected by haste then lets get the simulator updated. Lets face it, if close enough were good enough we'd be using spreadsheets and approximators like everybody else.

And on another note for the mana simulation part, JoW contribution is horribly low as well, the 3.0.8 version returns considerably more than 9 MRPS. Seems to be more on the line of 40-70 MPRS or 200-350 MP5 on static fights.

For example on a Raz fight I had 183 JoW procs @ 87-88 mana each over 3:31 with I believe 809 eligible attacks (assuming FT can proc it) giving either a ~50ppm proc rate or, more likely, ~20% chance per hit.

Last edited by Aldriana : 03/05/09 at 1:25 PM.
#1553SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Dragon-CR View Post
If I'm wrong and just had 5 or 6 ridiculously lucky streaks in a row then by all means show me the money, err data. If I'm right and it is a 1ppm affected by haste then lets get the simulator updated. Lets face it, if close enough were good enough we'd be using spreadsheets and approximators like everybody else.
I have a better idea. How about you show us some data and not just 3 paragraphs of run-on sentences of your stream of consciousness. You're the one asserting something is wrong, the burden of proof is on you and not anyone else. And no, screenshots of your procodile/recount windows don't count as data.
#1554SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
May I ask what you honestly think showing raw logs or WWS reports will show different than recount and mod reports? Assuming recount is accurate and the proc monitor mods are working as advertised then that IS data, just a summary report that says the same thing that a 20MB log file would.

There's none of what you're asking for to support 1.2ppm, so why is that taken as gospel?

That said expect a log parse later this week, but I'd still like to know why the screenshots don't count in this situation when they seem to in others. If photoshopping is the worry well logs can be manipulated just the same, that's why I've been asking for somebody else to give it a try.
#1555SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
For one thing someone walks in here and says "lul my mod says 4.8 ppm" we have no idea how long he tested and how many procs were recorded to make it statistically relevant. There's a lot of difference between a 5min test, an hour test, and a 5 hour test.
#1556SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Dragon, I think you are right. It's what I posted back when I was checking things for the Weapon Enchant thread. I think 1ppm affected by haste is how the mechanic works, but I don't have any proof of that. I have an opinion but everyone has one of those.

You are spouting that your opinion is the right one and we better get off our asses and fix the Sim because it's inaccurate because it doesn't work how you think it actually does. For that to happen we need a bit more then an opinion, we need verifiable fact. That's where the combatlogs and time spent testing and conditions and all that start to come into play.

Everybody got opinions, but if the facts are on your side you should be able to prove that your opinion is the right one easily enough and then we will be more then happy to support your request to modify the Sim (notice the support aspect, in the end the Sim is Tukez's so he is the one you need to convince).
#1557SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Dragon-CR
I stated in all my posts how long I tested for and I didn't include any results for any tests less than 1 hour. Allow me to do a quick review:
  • 1hr, naked, no totems, no imbues, 41% flurry uptime, ~12.3% effective haste, only auto attack.
    MH Berserking @ 1.02ppm, OH Mongoose @ 1.36ppm.
  • 1hr, same as above except wrong tracking mod installed, only tracked Mongoose @ 1.11ppm - bad test but consistent results
  • 1.5hr, full gear, WF and SoE totems, no imbues, 79% flurry uptime, ~63% effective haste, only auto attack.
    Dual Berserking @ 3.36ppm combined.
  • 1Hr, full gear, WF, SoE, Mana Spring totems, MH WF, OH FT, ~80% flurry uptime, ~63% effective haste, full attack rotation(*), mana limited.
    Dual Berserking @ 4.26ppm combined
  • 1Hr, full gear, WF, SoE, mana Spring totems, MH WF, OH FT, ~80% flurry uptime, ~63% effective haste, full attack rotation(*), mana limited.
    MH Berserking @ 2.78ppm, OH Mongoose @ 2.12ppm

So 5.5 hours total testing, and we're going to assume the PPM mechanic is same for mongoose and berserking, since the data seems to indicate they are.
  • 3 good data points for minimal haste: (1.02 + 1.36 + 1.11) / 3 = 1.16ppm average / 12.3% haste = 1.03ppm
  • 2 good data points for gear and flurry haste only (2x berserking): 3.36ppm / 2 = 1.68ppm average / 63% haste = 1.03ppm
  • 4 good data points for gear, flurry, totem, imbues, full attack: (4.26 + 2.78 + 2.12) / 4 = 2.29ppm
Can't take out effective haste on the last one due to WF and auto attack procs but it's well above what would be expected if the proc rate really were 1.2ppm unaffected by haste over the course of 2 hours. And in the cases where we can take out effective haste it's showing very close to 1ppm after haste is removed for all 3 runs over 3.5 hours.


And yeah after reviewing what I posted before, all the data is there for over 6 hours of testing (I only included the best data above, there was another hour or two of similar I listed while polishing my testing technique). My other issue is from what I've seen the current 1.2ppm/no haste mechanic is only opinion, I haven't seen any data posted for it anywhere, the post linked a few pages back has no real data in it and at least one person asking for any data who's request ultimately went unanswered.


And I still think we need somebody else "checking my work" but so far my testing heavily favors the 1ppm+haste model.


(*) By full attack rotation I mean SS, ES, LL, and LB when @ 5x MW, ES and LB to proc ED to keep melee crit as high as possible to try to improve flurry uptime as much as possible, although it didn't seem to have much impact on total flurry uptime.

Last edited by Dragon-CR : 03/05/09 at 6:38 PM.
#1558SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
HappyDude
It does look like there may be something wrong with the current model, but it is really hard to say from your data. You have a ton of variables changing, your base case is difficult to work with, and there probably isn't enough data.

Without knowing how many hits & procs you had, we can't calculate the statistical certainty levels in any statements about these results. The fact that you had a 30% higher OH ppm on your autoattack test suggests that an hour isn't even close to long enough to get statistically significant results, but without the actual data I can't possibly say for certain.

What would be really nice to see, and would help immensely in deriving the actual mechanic as opposed to just showing that the current mechanic is wrong, is a base case test with no haste, no flurry, no imbue, only MH weapon equipped, and a screenshot or log indicating (a) the total number of hits and (b) the total number of procs.

You can then increase haste using WF totem and gear and record the same data.

At that point, there will be enough data to make an indisputable statistical statement about the results.


After that we can worry about how all our abilities affect things, first we need to prove or disprove the fundamental mechanic.

Last edited by HappyDude : 03/06/09 at 6:44 AM.
#1559SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3HappyDude
To give some idea of how long you need to test for to get meaningful results (and to help show why people tend to be so dismissive when someone shows up with small sets of test data):

Let's assume a 2.5 speed weapon. If the real PPM is 1.0, each swing has a 4.2% chance to proc. If the real PPM is 1.2, each swing has a 5% chance to proc.

Given some observed data (X swings proc'd, Y swings didn't), we can use statistics to determine a range for the actual chance to proc (e.g. 4% to 6%) and our confidence in that range (e.g. we're 90% certain it's somewhere in that range).

The formulas I'm using are from Checking if a coin is fair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Let's say we want to find the PPM value within plus or minus 0.1 PPM, with a certainty of 99%. 0.1PPM corresponds to about a 0.4% change in the chance to proc per swing on our 2.5 speed weapon.

The number of events needed to achieve this level of certainty is given by n = p(1-p) * Z^2/E^2. E is the 0.004 (0.4%) change in proc chance. The Z-value for 99% certainty is 2.576. p is the 'real' proc chance, which we'll take to be 0.04 (just to be nice; closer to 0.5 gives a higher stddev).
Thus, the number of swings you'd need is over 15000, which is about 10 hours of swinging that 2.5 speed weapon.

So, if you record 15000 swings with no talents or haste gear and you observe a PPM of 1.0, you can say with 99% certainty that the 'true' PPM value is in the range 0.9-1.1, which would indicate that the currently accepted value is wrong.

Someone correct me if my math is wrong, but that is the gist of it as I understand it.



It does somewhat suck that the burden of proof is on you when the EJ TTT articles never seem to source their data. This wouldn't be the first time that an accepted theory was really just based on insufficient anecdotal evidence.
#1560SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
I was thinking should I make WF cd a normal distributed random number? Mean 3.0s with standard deviation 0.Xs?

Could people help me with Spirit Wolf mechanics? Just unload all the info regarding them here, obvious ones too. I am not very familiar how pets work. I also need to know the buffs, which could affect wolfs. Thanks for the help.
#1561SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3HappyDude
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I was thinking should I make WF cd a normal distributed random number? Mean 3.0s with standard deviation 0.Xs?

Could people help me with Spirit Wolf mechanics? Just unload all the info regarding them here, obvious ones too. I am not very familiar how pets work. I also need to know the buffs, which could affect wolfs. Thanks for the help.
The macro to bring up the pet window is:
/run if not oldHasPetUI then oldHasPetUI = HasPetUI; HasPetUI = function() return true, false; end end PetTab_Update() ToggleCharacter("PetPaperDollFrame")
They gain 30% of your AP.

Mousing over their character sheet using the pet window, they clearly gain the benefits of:
WF totem
SoE totem
Heroism

It seems likely that they are affected by any and all buffs that other (e.g. warlock) pets are affected by - I've heard of people getting warriors to battleshout after they pop them.

It appears that they gain the benefit of any AP buff you gain even after you've popped them (after a slight delay). For example, my wolves started at 1777 AP, then after dropping untalented SoE they immediately went to 2087 AP (i.e. they gained the SoE buff), then after a short delay they went up to 2183 (30% of my benefit from the SoE buff).


The hard part will likely be getting accurate base crit and miss rates for them.
#1562SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I was also thinking Tukez that we will possibly need support for more than one set bonus. It is quite likely that people will soon be running round with naxx_melee_2 and ulduar_melee_2 simultaneously. Would this be a case of coding tier7_8_melee_2_2 and tier7_8_nuker_2_2 or some such variable name? It's possibly the simplest way of tackling it. Or would you do two variables set bonus 1, set bonus 2 and just have each take same values as valid inputs?

I'm looking at how to get the Rawr.Enhance model to deal with set bonuses, so guidance would be appreciated. Having two separate lines of set bonus would possibly be easier for end users, and definitely easier for Rawr.Enhance coding if that makes a difference

Whilst I'm posting :

Support for glyph4 can be dropped, as could some of the really old items. Also any chance the default config could be more or less the BiS config file it seems to be a Enh talent, Ele rotation hybrid at present. Thus causing new users issues with setting rotation priorities correctly.

Any progress on trinkets, relic etc taking itemid's rather than text string identifiers?
#1563SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by HappyDude View Post
The macro to bring up the pet window is:
They gain 30% of your AP.

Mousing over their character sheet using the pet window, they clearly gain the benefits of:
Thanks for the help, although I don't have active account currently so I can't check anything myself.

Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I was also thinking Tukez that we will possibly need support for more than one set bonus. It is quite likely that people will soon be running round with naxx_melee_2 and ulduar_melee_2 simultaneously. Would this be a case of coding tier7_8_melee_2_2 and tier7_8_nuker_2_2 or some such variable name? It's possibly the simplest way of tackling it. Or would you do First set bonus, Second set bonus and just have both take same values?

I'm looking at how to get the Rawr.Enhance model to deal with set bonuses, so guidance would be appreciated. Having two separate lines of set bonus would possibly be easier for end users, and definitely easier for Rawr.Enhance coding if that makes a difference

Whilst I'm posting :

Support for glyph4 can be dropped, as could some of the really old items. Also any chance the default config could be more or less the BiS config file it seems to be a Enh talent, Ele rotation hybrid at present. Thus causing new users issues with setting rotation priorities correctly.

Any progress on trinkets, relic etc taking itemid's rather than text string identifiers?
I'll add two more set bonus lines to the config, I guess 3 different sets are enough.

Which ids enchants use? It's not too clear when I was trying to check eg. Mongoose's id. Only problem with the id thing, is the effort to find the ids. It's easy to code the support. I'll try to do it for the next version.
#1564SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Wolves also reportedly gain ~30-35% of player Hit Rating Tukez.
#1565SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
From ShockAndAwe Export.lua

if enchantID == "2673" then
enchantText ="mongoose"
elseif enchantID == "3225" then
enchantText ="executioner"
elseif enchantID == "1900" then
enchantText ="crusader"
elseif enchantID == "3273" then
enchantText ="deathfrost"
elseif enchantID == "3789" then
enchantText ="berserking"
#1566SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I was thinking should I make WF cd a normal distributed random number? Mean 3.0s with standard deviation 0.Xs?

Could people help me with Spirit Wolf mechanics? Just unload all the info regarding them here, obvious ones too. I am not very familiar how pets work. I also need to know the buffs, which could affect wolfs. Thanks for the help.

Probably the best way to model the Windfury cooldown (as I understand it to work) would be to just set it to 3 +/- 0.3 seconds. I'm 99% sure there is a latency component to the spread factor but that it would be capped at some value that would be completely server based. If you wanted to be as accurate as possible 3 +/- (0.2 + Latency)*

* = capped at 0.5 seconds

That would fit with all the data I've seen although the issue is that the spread value works as a bellcurve model where the extremes are less likely to be encountered which is why the simplest is probably the best way to go (3 +/- 0.3 seconds).


As for the Feral Spirits;

Base Stats
785 AP
331 Str
113 Agi
402 Stam
65 Int
109 Spirit
9778 Armor

Their attacks each do 331-456 damage at 1.5speed (262.2 dps)

They gain 30% of the shaman's AP and Stamina and 35% of his Armor.

There is a rumor that they may utilize the shaman's hit rating (but not expertise or crit rating) but that needs to be confirmed (I'll try to work on it later).

They receive all raid buffs if they are activated after the wolves are summoned. So when affected by Unleashed Rage they will gain 30% of their own AP in addition to whatever transfers from you.

In my normal gear my Wolves have 1759 AP. When the totem only affects me they have 1869. If they are buffed with SoE and I'm not they have 2115 AP. If we are both of us are buffed they have 2225. So it would seem they gain either 2AP per Strength or 1AP per Str and 1AP per Agi. Gonna get some Kibbler's bits and check on that part.

edit

Here are 3 short runs on the Boss Dummy. All are 2 summons so the sample size is a bit small to draw conclusions but the numbers are reasonable.

No gear
Wow Web Stats

Geared with 438 +hit
Wow Web Stats

Geared with 271 +hit (8.26% melee hit)
Wow Web Stats

For some reason on the last test they attacked from the front so they got parried a lot but even with just 271 +hit there wasn't a single missed attack. Their crit rate was the same 1-2% for each test and they got dodged/parried the same whether I was dodge capped or not. Opening the pet tab (macro is on the TTT) shows that they gain no benefit from haste. But from my really small sample it appears that having enough hit rating to melee cap (without dual wield penalty) removed all misses from their table.

So that would mean they get
30% of your AP/Stam
35% of your Armor
All your hit rating
None of your other stats/ratings.

Last edited by Rouncer : 03/06/09 at 12:43 PM.
#1567SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Spirit wolwes hit scaling: My theory is that hit scaling was 30% but hotfixed to 100%.

Last week 10man satharion wipes.
http://wowwebstats.com/mhmvfngaoqof1...023d1&s=bosses
Wow Web Stats
This week 25man satharion.
Wow Web Stats

One miss is propably when puppies attacked satharion when immunity was up.
#1568SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Geared with 271 +hit (8.26% melee hit)
Wow Web Stats

For some reason on the last test they attacked from the front so they got parried a lot but even with just 271 +hit there wasn't a single missed attack.
Well that makes perfect sense if the assumption is that they gain 100% of your hit because the wolves are not dual wielding. They're treated just like a hunter pet or a druid's attacks, which is the same hit table as a 1H or 2H weapon.
#1569SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Dragon-CR
Originally Posted by HappyDude View Post
To give some idea of how long you need to test for to get meaningful results (and to help show why people tend to be so dismissive when someone shows up with small sets of test data):

Let's assume a 2.5 speed weapon. If the real PPM is 1.0, each swing has a 4.2% chance to proc. If the real PPM is 1.2, each swing has a 5% chance to proc.

Given some observed data (X swings proc'd, Y swings didn't), we can use statistics to determine a range for the actual chance to proc (e.g. 4% to 6%) and our confidence in that range (e.g. we're 90% certain it's somewhere in that range).

The formulas I'm using are from Checking if a coin is fair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Let's say we want to find the PPM value within plus or minus 0.1 PPM, with a certainty of 99%. 0.1PPM corresponds to about a 0.4% change in the chance to proc per swing on our 2.5 speed weapon.

The number of events needed to achieve this level of certainty is given by n = p(1-p) * Z^2/E^2. E is the 0.004 (0.4%) change in proc chance. The Z-value for 99% certainty is 2.576. p is the 'real' proc chance, which we'll take to be 0.04 (just to be nice; closer to 0.5 gives a higher stddev).
Thus, the number of swings you'd need is over 15000, which is about 10 hours of swinging that 2.5 speed weapon.

So, if you record 15000 swings with no talents or haste gear and you observe a PPM of 1.0, you can say with 99% certainty that the 'true' PPM value is in the range 0.9-1.1, which would indicate that the currently accepted value is wrong.

Someone correct me if my math is wrong, but that is the gist of it as I understand it.



It does somewhat suck that the burden of proof is on you when the EJ TTT articles never seem to source their data. This wouldn't be the first time that an accepted theory was really just based on insufficient anecdotal evidence.
This assumes we require 99% confidence rate, when say a 90% confidence rate would be more than adequate to seriously challenge current assumptions, esp when there's more than 10% between the 1.2ppm/no haste and 1ppm/haste models. Using the actual 4.2% proc chance per hit and 0.42% to get us in 0.9-1.1ppm with 90% confidence (Z=1.6449), that would only require ~6223 hits instead of 15k, or 4 hours 20 minutes of testing to exceed 90% confidence.

Weapon speed and the change in % proc rate has minimal impact on testing duration. A 1.4 speed weapon only has a 2.33% proc chance per hit, would require 11.3k hits, which works out to effectively 4 hours 24 minutes of attacks for 90% confidence.

If we accept berserking and mongoose have identical proc mechanics, and both have identical proc mechanics regardless of what weapon they're on and which hand they're in, and that weapon speed in the ranges we have access to do not significantly alter the amount of time required to do the test (as shown above), and since we can get dual procs and can dual wield, then we can effectively test two weapons/enchants at once, bringing the actual time required to test down to lets say 2 hours 15 minutes to ensure >90% confidence.

I have data for 3 effective hours with ~12% haste, or 4800 effective 2.5sec hits. Rearranging your equation and solving for Z this gives a Z value of 1.4446, which considering 1.6449 is 90% and 1.0 is 68.3%, then the 1.4446 is going to be low to mid 80% confidence.

So my minimal haste test was 1.16ppm @12% effective haste for 3 effective hours which is well within 80% confidence for 1.02-1.22ppm assuming 1ppm/hasted. Unfortunately it's also 80% confidence for 1.1-1.3ppm for 1.2ppm/no haste.

However my next test is 1.68ppm @63% effective haste for 3 effective hours which is well within 80% confidence for 1.53-1.73ppm assuming 1ppm/hasted, and way outside the 1.1-1.3ppm for 1.2ppm/no haste.

If 80% confidence isn't good enough to declare 1ppm to be the base then fine, statistically speaking I agree since my results do put both 1.0ppm and 1.2ppm within range. I can do naked testing on a dummy later this weekend on the PTR to narrow that down more.

Can we at least agree that the 1.68ppm for 3 hours is way too far outside the 1.2ppm 80% confidence range and declare that the proc chance per hit is static based on weapon speed, and therefore affected by haste mechanics, actual base proc rate still to be determined.

Last edited by Dragon-CR : 03/06/09 at 6:03 PM.
#1570SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
and since we can get dual procs and can dual wield, then we can effectively test two weapons/enchants at once, bringing the actual time required to test down to lets say 2 hours 15 minutes to ensure >90% confidence.
Statistically that is wrong. Even if they use the same mechanism, they are two separate random variables. You can not combine those two variables together to obtain a higher confidence level.

And personally I would say that 80% confidence intervals are too low, even 90 could be too low (99% is too high though). Generally 95% is what is used in most studies.
#1571SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
Statistically speaking, how is doing two 1hr runs with one weapon any different than doing one 1hr run with two weapons that use the same mechanics? The point of statistics is combining multiple variables we know are related and looking at them overall to try to determine how they're related.

One weapon for 2 hours yielding 65 procs hour one and 55 procs hour two "combines" for an average of 1ppm.

Two weapons for 1 hour yielding 120 total procs for 2ppm / 2 = 1ppm per weapon. Do we know exactly which weapon proced which? No, and we don't care so long as the mechanics behind how they proc are consistent.

We're not studying an individual weapon or combination we're studying the underlying mechanic. Dual wielding achieves the same results in half the time since you can do two tests in parallel.

I run EnhSim with 4 threads to finish in 1/4 of the time and statistically the results are the same if I had done one thread for 4x the time. If Draenei had prehensile tails I'd be doing 3 weapons at once.
#1572SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
I noted in http://elitistjerks.com/1093112-post75.html that glancing rate is now assumed to be 24%. I know its configurable in the sim but perhaps time to change the default in config.txt?

I also noted the following 3.1 changes :

* Armor Penetration Rating: All classes now receive 25% more benefit from Armor Penetration Rating.
* Haste Rating: Shamans, Paladins, Druids, and Death Knights now receive 30% more melee haste from Haste Rating.

We also now get +25% expertise from expertise rating.

So whereas the old cap was 214 expertise rating with 3/3 UR the new cap is 17 expertise * (32.78998947/4)/1.25 = 112 expertise rating. So we gain 102 expertise from these changes. That's a huge amount.

Last edited by Levva : 03/07/09 at 8:56 AM.
#1573SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Careful with that expertise change

http://elitistjerks.com/1137280-post376.html

Looks like someone may have coded the change wrong and affected expertise when they actually wanted to just change haste rating.


Edit:
Tukez can you add Frostbrand as an option in the Sim. Just use current values (442 base damage per proc with 10% spellpower coefficient) with an 8 PPM mechanic that is affected by haste (proc chance determined by base weapon speed).

That PPM value may change as more testing comes in but 8 seems like a decent compromise position for now.

Edit2:
Make it 8.5 ppm or roughly an average of a proc every 7 seconds (I wonder if that's how they code PPM, not by procs but by average time between procs since that would work out to 8.57 ppm which fits exactly with the current long running test).

Last edited by Rouncer : 03/07/09 at 1:59 PM.
#1574SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Darkclaw
Why am I getting past cap warnings for Expertise? If I'm reading this right the sim thinks I'm over by 15.79 expertise rating?
As far as I've been able to figure reading these forums, expertise rating caps at 214, but I'm only at 197. I'm using Snapper Extreme food for Hit, not a expertise food. What am i missing? this can get a bit complex as we get close to the caps is seems...



#############

Mh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 1.9262 expertise (15.79 expertise rating).
Oh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 1.9262 expertise (15.79 expertise rating).

Calculating EP values...
<snip>

EP value DPS total DPS difference

baseline 2971.96
ap 1.00 0.37 2995.95 23.99
crit rating 2.00 0.75 3006.49 34.53
hit rating 2.99 1.12 3005.56 33.60
expertise rating 1.30 0.49 2987.88 15.92
haste rating 1.46 0.55 2990.04 18.08
armor penetration rating 1.24 0.46 2978.90 6.94
spellpower 0.97 0.36 2982.11 10.15
mh dps 5.82 2.18 2993.78 21.82
oh dps 2.80 1.05 2982.44 10.48
strength 1.10
agility 1.84
intelligence 1.42
spirit 0.01 0.00 2972.28 0.32
mana 0.00 0.00 2972.09 0.13
mp5 0.18 0.07 2973.28 1.32

elapsed simulation time: 140000.00h
elapsed real time: 350.45s
simulation speed: 1438138x



######### my config file.


simulation_time 10000
simulation_time_combatlog 30
combat_length 6
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 40
max_lag 60
simulate_mana 1

ep_precision 2
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 46
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 4
ep_haste_rating 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating 15
ep_spellpower 28
ep_dps 10.0
ep_mana 200
ep_spirit 100
ep_mp5 20

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 0
bloodlust_casters 2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left 700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left 3000

rotation_priority_count 7
rotation_priority1 SR
rotation_priority2 MW5_LB
rotation_priority3 SS
rotation_priority4 FS
rotation_priority5 ES
rotation_priority6 LL
rotation_priority7 LS

miss 8.00
dodge 6.50
glancing 25.00
armor 13083
spell_miss 17.00
nature_resistance 0
fire_resistance 0
frost_resistance 0
arcane_resistance 0
shadow_resistance 0

armor_debuff_major 0/3925
armor_debuff_minor 0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff 0/2.0
melee_haste_buff 20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff 0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat 0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier 0/99.7
spell_haste_buff 0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff 0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff 0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff 0/10.0
spellpower_buff 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff 0/3.0
haste_buff 0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase 0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff 0/3.0
stat_multiplier 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff 52/52
agi_and_strength_buff 178/178
intellect_buff 60/60

replenishment 1
water_shield 0
mana_spring_totem 1
blessing_of_wisdom 0
judgement_of_wisdom 0

flask_elixir flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir -
potion -
food snapper_extreme
misc_item -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon ###
###############################################################################

###############################
## ShockAndAwe EnhSim Export ##
###############################
race tauren
mh_speed 2.50
oh_speed 2.60
mh_dps 156.6
oh_dps 130.2
mh_crit 25.92
oh_crit 25.92
mh_hit 11.22
oh_hit 11.22
mh_expertise_rating 197.00
oh_expertise_rating 197.00
ap 3107
haste 3.39
armor_penetration 5.39
str 190
agi 721
int 503
spi 187
spellpower 991
spell_crit 19.56
spell_hit 14.03
max_mana 11661
mp5 0
mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue flametongue

mh_enchant mongoose
mh_weapon -
oh_enchant mongoose
oh_weapon axe

trinket1 grim_toll
trinket2 mirror_of_truth

totem stonebreakers_totem
set_bonus - ## not currently available in the addon export
metagem relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1 windfury_weapon
glyph_major2 stormstrike
glyph_major3 lava_lash
glyph_major4 - ## slot empty

glyph_minor1 - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor2 - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor3 - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim


#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge 2/5
improved_shields 0/3
mental_dexterity 3/3
shamanistic_focus 1/1
flurry 5/5
elemental_weapons 3/3
unleashed_rage 5/5
weapon_mastery 3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness 3/3
improved_stormstrike 2/2
static_shock 3/3
maelstrom_weapon 5/5
convection 0/5
concussion 5/5
call_of_flame 2/3
elemental_devastation 3/3
reverberation 0/5
elemental_focus 1/1
elemental_fury 5/5
call_of_thunder 0/1
unrelenting_storm 0/3
elemental_precision 0/3
lightning_mastery 0/5
elemental_oath 0/2
lightning_overload 0/5
lava_flows 0/3
storm_earth_and_fire 0/3
shamanism 0/5
#1575SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Tukez perhaps you should change the warnings from the sim, because we're having to answer this question twice a day it seems. If the person is over the cap because of their stats, then they should be told that their gear exceeds the cap. If the EP Step Size will put them over the cap during simulation then the message should be worded differently.
#1576SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Careful with that expertise change

http://elitistjerks.com/1137280-post376.html

Looks like someone may have coded the change wrong and affected expertise when they actually wanted to just change haste rating.


Edit:
Tukez can you add Frostbrand as an option in the Sim. Just use current values (442 base damage per proc with 10% spellpower coefficient) with an 8 PPM mechanic that is affected by haste (proc chance determined by base weapon speed).

That PPM value may change as more testing comes in but 8 seems like a decent compromise position for now.

Edit2:
Make it 8.5 ppm or roughly an average of a proc every 7 seconds (I wonder if that's how they code PPM, not by procs but by average time between procs since that would work out to 8.57 ppm which fits exactly with the current long running test).
Not being funny, but as a general reminder, use EnhSim: Wishes to post anything tukez has to do. With all the spam in this thread, it's more than likely that our lone simulation programmer will miss something important.
#1577SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
ep_expertise 4

mh_expertise_rating 197.00
You have 197 expertise rating. The simulator adds 4 expertise (which is about 8.2 * 4 = 32.8 expertise rating) to that in order to figure out the impact of adding 4 expertise to your stats. This results in 229.8 expertise rating, which is ~ 15.8 expertise rating over the cap.

If you want to see how much expertise is valued you can either decrease the ep_expertise from 4 to something like 2, or the better solution would be to make it a negative value (so -4). That should give you a better EP for expertise.
#1578SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
"Warning! Your expertise rating plus the added rating from the sim puts you over the cap by %f." Probably not a very good message but something like it. The question comes up far too much.
#1579SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
"Warning! Your expertise rating plus the added rating from the sim puts you over the cap by %f." Probably not a very good message but something like it. The question comes up far too much.
Perhaps even a link to the page that addresses the issues that come up with this warning:
EnhSim: Ep values
#1580SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Has to be explained by the warning message directly. People rarely read up on situations even when pointed in the right direction. Perhaps both?
#1581SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Frostshockz
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
We also now get +25% expertise from expertise rating.
I looked over and over and couldn't find anything that says this.

Where exactly did you see this at?
#1582SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Frostshockz View Post
I looked over and over and couldn't find anything that says this.

Where exactly did you see this at?
I haven't seen this change documented anywhere, but it is the current scaling on the PTR. I have been assuming that it was a bug from the haste changes and will be reverted before 3.1 is live.
#1583SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Darkclaw
The ERROR message should be our friend.

Thank you OnosKT!

I was at a loss as to why the sim would think 197 was over 214, but now after your extremely simple and effective explanation of what is actually going on, I get it! It was not at all obvious to me what those values where used for, or why or how I may want to change them. (Not sure yet how making it a negative value of 4 would make it even better?? 24-4?)

Thanks.

I think confusion point #1 in the case of expertise is, you are working with two different forms of the same value. Perhaps it would be best if you worked with only one. Either Expertise Rating (caps at 214) or Expertise Points (caps at 26). Just a thought...

Also, maybe an error message something more like this would help?

"Mh expertise + 4 (current EP range for expertise) goes past suggested cap of 26 expertise by 1.9262, (15.79 past 214 expertise rating). Please adjust your EP range setting to a smaller value for more precision as you reach the cap."

Anyway, thanks for this great tool.

Last edited by Darkclaw : 03/09/09 at 6:14 PM.
#1584SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Wll, the reason whya negative value works is like this. In order to calculate your values, the sim runs a simulation with your base stats and finds the DPS. Then, for each of the stats, it adds the EP range value and calculates the DPS. Once that is done, it calculates

(DPS_increase_from_stat_x / increase_in_stat_x ) / ( DPS_increase_from_AP / increase_in_AP ) = EP_value_for_stat_x

If you give negative value, it will remove that value from your stats, simulate (and get less DPS) and then divide by a negative value (for your increase in stats x) and thus get the correct value. Instead of calculating - how much does increasing X increase my DPS, it calculates, how much does decreasing X decrease my DPS.

The reason why it's better to use larger negative numbers, when you get close to caps, then using small positive increases has to do with the precision of calculations.
#1585SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Darkclaw View Post
Please adjust your EP range setting to a smaller value for more precision as you reach the cap."
That's actually the opposite of what you want to do. Lowering the EP step size isn't making it more precise, it's actually going to increase variability. There are 2 recourses:
1) Ignore it and just accept that the stat will have a near zero value
2) Make the step size negative which will cause the sim to subtract the stat. the resulting EP value will be negative as well, simply make it positive again and all is right in the world.
#1586SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Darkclaw
i'll have to try and see what kind of numbers I get with -4 in place of 4.

I think maybe the sim should be telling me to make changes to my EP values for mana, spirit and Mp5?
they are 200, 100, and 20 for now. (defaults) but I'm bouncing very close to 0 and sometimes even negative values there with those settings. (based on minor gear changes as I get new gear)

the Ep values page linked above suggests we set them to 0? is that different from the checkbox for simulation of Mana?
#1587SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
I think maybe the sim should be telling me to make changes to my EP values for mana, spirit and Mp5?
they are 200, 100, and 20 for now. (defaults) but I'm bouncing very close to 0 and sometimes even negative values there with those settings. (based on minor gear changes as I get new gear)
That just means that you are at the max value for mana - as in you will have almost no down time due to running oom. As such, mp5, spirit and mana give you almost 0 benefit. I don't think setting them to 0 will result in quite the same behavior. If you set the step to 0 it will still add the 0, and sim it. If you disable mana simulations then it will just skip those tests - thus resulting in faster EP value calculations.
#1588SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Farosarg
How about making it sim both negative and positive range for each given one and then report the larger ep value given from those two results?. As physics student I automatically presumed this was the case before reading this thread.

Oh and apparently there is a bug in PTR currently in expertise calculation. Source: MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Expertise change? Oops?

So no change for expertise calculation outside UR talent change.
#1589SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Luc
Originally Posted by Farosarg View Post
How about making it sim both negative and positive range for each given one and then report the larger ep value given from those two results?. As physics student I automatically presumed this was the case before reading this thread.
Personally, I wouldn't want the sim to take twice as long for an issue that really isn't all that complex to resolve once you understand its mechanics. (After all, this is an amazing but lets face it, targeted tool designed for those of us who want to take the mix/max numbers game as far as it can go)

Also, due to scaling, adding an subtracting stat values will result in different EP results, and I want to know if the result I was given was a result of addition or subtraction.
#1590SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lohegrin
Alright, to start this post I'll say that I don't really play a shaman I'm just running the simulator to try to prove to one of my guildies is doing something wrong.

What I'm doing is getting EP values, I'm not really interested in the dps simulation as such.
I have a couple of questions about the results.

Haste shows an EP value of -0.35 which I find confusing, does this have anything to do with the internal CD on WF and haste resulting in less hits with an actual chance to proc it?
Agi shows as being >2EP but when I look at the armories of shamans the ones who have the choice between agi and AP pick the latter, why is that?
#1591SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Lohegrin View Post
Alright, to start this post I'll say that I don't really play a shaman I'm just running the simulator to try to prove to one of my guildies is doing something wrong.

What I'm doing is getting EP values, I'm not really interested in the dps simulation as such.
I have a couple of questions about the results.

Haste shows an EP value of -0.35 which I find confusing, does this have anything to do with the internal CD on WF and haste resulting in less hits with an actual chance to proc it?
Agi shows as being >2EP but when I look at the armories of shamans the ones who have the choice between agi and AP pick the latter, why is that?
Gonna guess that you are doing something wrong.

Post a config and the armory profile of the shaman you are Simming and I'm sure someone will be able to help you.
#1592SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lohegrin
Don't know what the problem was but it solved itself when I didn't use the GUI version.
Could it have anything to do missing packages or anything?
Doesn't really matter as I got it working in the end anyway
#1593SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3isseymiyake
i might be doing something very wrong! but all i get is a WinXP program error pop up evry time i press simulate in the gui sim! any1 care 2 /slap me and tell what im doing wrong?
#1594SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mindrila
Well first of all /slap for your post, and my first guess would be, that you haven't selected the enhsim.exe in the lower right corner.

But without the detailed error (you can Ctrl-C a message box quite often, so you don't have to write it down manually) it's not easy to help you.
#1595SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
isseymiyake
when running it, it says hit is over cap - EP wil be skipped then starting the EP calculation wich results in a enhsim_combatlog.exe error i dont understand! :S gonna discontinue use of this thing since im obviosly to tired to comprehend the use of this b4 I had my morning coffey!

Last edited by isseymiyake : 03/11/09 at 4:12 AM.
#1596SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Nubittos
Originally Posted by isseymiyake View Post
when running it, it says hit is over cap - EP wil be skipped then starting the EP calculation wich results in a enhsim_combatlog.exe error i dont understand! :S gonna discontinue use of this thing since im obviosly to tired to comprehend the use of this b4 I had my morning coffey!
You typed in rating instead of percentage?


btw:

I have been reading and reading on some posts in order to figure out exactly where this program is, compared to the game patches... Does the latest version 1.5.9.1 run according to gamepatch 3.0.3, 3.0.8 or what patch is it running? According to my calculations (if I add 30% to haste- and 25% to armorpenetration-EP values, manually ofc) armorpenetration is gonna be decent and haste is gonna be pretty much the best stat there is (given you are capped on hit/exp). Can I just calculate it like this, adding to the EP values to adjust for the PTR changes, at the very least for a rough estimate?

Last edited by Nubittos : 03/11/09 at 10:04 AM.
#1597SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
The sim is running the live WoW version, so 3.0.8 as of right now.

My initial gut feeling was that simply multiplying 25% (or 30%) to the final EP value was the wrong way to go. If you want to simulate what kind of an increase the 30% extra haste would give, you would need to do it manually via EP calc run. Here's how I would design a test to get that:

1. Add 30% extra haste to your haste EP stepping. Since default is 30, you can make it 39. Run the EP value calc.
2. Calculate in the EP from step 1 for haste as ( difference / 30 )
3. Calculate (result in 3) / (DPS of AP)

I'll give an example of what I mean with my values:

1. ap 1.00 0.58 6083.38 29.22
haste rating 2.09 1.22 6101.89 47.73
2. Calculate ( 47.73 / 30 ) = 1.591
3. Calculate 1.591 / 0.58 = 2.74 - that is approx your EP for the 3.1 haste

Note: 2.74 / 2.09 ~ 1.3. I tried another test and the result was about 1.28 bigger. So it seems simply multiplying 1.3 to your EP (for haste) gives the good result.
#1598SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nubittos
2.74 EP for haste is just around the values I got on my calcs... haste is gonna be nice it seems

thanks for the help, much appreciated...
#1599SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Luc
I adjusted and ran the sim today to try and account for the current 3.1 changes as well.

Added 30% to my current haste value (which is a little bit fiddly with totem of dueling), reduced flurry to 25% and came out with a haste EP of 1.6
Adding the 30% to that does indeed make it slightly better than AP and a new besst stat assuming Exp and Spell Hit capped.

Haste seems to be the most difficult to predict EP value, I guess due to its interaction with the WF internal cooldown, it seems to swing wildly up and down by about 0.5 EP value as my gear changes. Most of the other EP values have a more predictable upward or downward trend by comparison.
#1600SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Luc View Post
Haste seems to be the most difficult to predict EP value, I guess due to its interaction with the WF internal cooldown, it seems to swing wildly up and down by about 0.5 EP value as my gear changes. Most of the other EP values have a more predictable upward or downward trend by comparison.
That's due to the windfury chasm which is an artificial result of the Sim's perfect timing. In the game the interaction of swing times with the windfury cooldown follows a more natural curve so haste's EP value will have more gradual changes/trends.
#1601SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3andreasg
Something I find wierd is that even after reaching 14% spell hit, which should be the point where I should start caring about other stats, my EP value for hit rating keep being above everything else (like 3.0 vs. crit EP 2.0).

Unless I'm getting it all wrong, wouldn't that mean that my marginal product of stacking hit rating is higher than stacking anything else, and I should continue doing that even beyond reaching the 14% spell hit, at the cost of stacking all other stats?

Obviously the hit rating no longer affects my spell damage at that point, so any extra hit rating affects melee attacks only. Can it really be that getting extra hit at that point is still so much EP worth?
#1602SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malagant
You might want to make sure that the 14% hit you're getting from gear is supplemented by a Shadow Priest's Misery or a Moonkin Druid's imp. Faerie Fire, both of which give a 3% chance to hit with spells, thus, giving you the full 17% you would need to be spell hit capped.
#1603SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Hit is still a very valuable stat after you get to the spell hit cap. What normally should happen is that once you get to that cap the value for hit rating should drop to the point where it is roughly equal to crit rating and haste rating and agility. At that point Attack Power is your best stat to gem/enchant for since you get 2 AP per 1 Agi/Hit/Crit/Haste.

What I've been doing to simplify the gearing is to get myself to the spell hit cap and the expertise cap and then running the sim with that set of gear using a negative EP value for expertise. Then I stick all that into Lootrank (converting expertise's value to a positive) and start comparing the gear. Provided I stay above the spell hit cap the rankings should be correct. Then use Expertise and Hit gems to get to those caps and any additional gem slots left should just be filled with AP gems.

3.1 will change things since Haste could potentially end up with more value then AP but I don't think it's worth worrying about till the patch is released and the Sim gets updated.


For your specific question, the poster above me is probably right and you are missing a raid buff that is preventing you from hitting the spell hit cap, either that or you have basically minimal/no expertise which would greatly inflate the value of hit rating since actually hitting the boss matters a lot more then crit or haste.
#1604SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Rounced if you want best set then you have value expertise and hit to 2. Before patch you need to be blacksmith to get all expertise easily but post patch it's really easy get exp/hit caps.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 03/15/09 at 1:12 PM.
#1605SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Rounced if you want best set then you have value expertice and hit to 2. Before patch you need to be blacksmith to get all expertice easily but post patch it's really easy get exp/hit caps.
The beauty of the sim's EP generator is that we don't have to arbitrarily assign values to stats. Setting the expertise step to a negative gives us a "real" value for expertise, why would we want to go with an arbitrary value?
#1606SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
The beauty of the sim's EP generator is that we don't have to arbitrarily assign values to stats. Setting the expertise step to a negative gives us a "real" value for expertise, why would we want to go with an arbitrary value?
Cheapest way to get hit and expertise is gemming. If you can gem expertise or hit you lose only 2ap per rating. Becouse these two stats caps we can't really stack these stats. Negative ep step value is also an arbitrary value. My armory shows that you can get both caps with using these values at lootrank. This is not best way value single upgrades but full set. When you have access to everything then you can plan ultimate set with this method.

Last edited by Pitbuller : 03/15/09 at 1:12 PM.
#1607SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Cheapest way to get hit and expertice is gemming. If you can gem expertice or hit you lose only 2ap per rating. Becouse these two stats caps we can't really stack these stats. Negative ep step value is also an arbitrary value. My armory shows that you can get both caps with using these values at lootrank. This is not best way value single upgrades but full set. When you have access to everything then you can plan ultimate set with this method.
Negative EP isn't arbitrary at all, it shows what the expertise you are using anyway is providing you in terms of EP. I see what you are saying about replacement value in terms of gems, but primarily EP values are used to make specific single comparisons (for me at least) so using the actual simmed values makes a lot more sense.
#1608SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Rounced if you want best set then you have value expertice and hit to 2. Before patch you need to be blacksmith to get all expertice easily but post patch it's really easy get exp/hit caps.

Actually that is a really good point although hit should have a real value not 2 since after you cap hit it still has a value and that value normally is comparable to agi/crit and haste. Expertise I can see bringing down to 2 from a real value since after the cap it should be possible to cap without using all gem slots. So after the patch you could reduce expertise to 2 and run hit as a real value on a capped set and then just plan on making sure to use however many gem slots are necessary to make sure you are at least at the spell hit and the expertise caps. Any gem slots after that point would be used for AP.

This may change with the haste changes but I can see your point for now, although without that 9 expertise from UR just about every gem slot has to be expertise anyway unless you are a JC or a BS.

I've argued the opposite in the past but for expertise value, once capped, I now see the point of using an arbitrary value like 2 instead of going with a reverse EP simmed value.
#1609SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I've argued the opposite in the past but for expertise value, once capped, I now see the point of using an arbitrary value like 2 instead of going with a reverse EP simmed value.
If you are going down this road than you might as well just sim your overall stats before/after any change and compare, rather than using EP at all.
#1610SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
If you are going down this road than you might as well just sim your overall stats before/after any change and compare, rather than using EP at all.
Why?

The arbitrary value is really only set for expertise since the assumption is that you will be expertise capped. If you drop even a point below the cap then you have to start using real EP values for expertise again. As for hit the concept is to use the EP values generated by a spell hit capped set but recognizing that if you are not at or above the spell hit cap and you can't gem to get there then you have to reevaluate your entire set using the uncapped values.

I've been trying to think of how to explain my thinking and why I use a couple of loot ranks to determine my BiS gearing and Pitbuller's post just made it all click a little bit better, at least in my own head.
#1611SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Pitbuller
Originally Posted by Protico View Post
Negative EP isn't arbitrary at all, it shows what the expertise you are using anyway is providing you in terms of EP. I see what you are saying about replacement value in terms of gems, but primarily EP values are used to make specific single comparisons (for me at least) so using the actual simmed values makes a lot more sense.
Sim values are great for everything else but stats that cap. Let's make an example. If you get trinket with 64expertise with same proc(or ssame value) as mirror of truth. Ep value will show that 64expertise > 84crit rating(~192ep > ~168ep). But when you replace your trinket you go over expertise cap and you need replace four gems with ap ones. This will give you 128ap. This give 40ep loss isntead of 24ep gain. But if you use expertise value of 2 you know that trinket is inferior one(128ep < 168ep).

Last edited by Pitbuller : 03/15/09 at 1:11 PM.
#1612SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Solema
Hi,this is the first time i post here so please forgive me if i do something wrong.

I'm trying to use the sim for a few days now but after a lot of studying and trying and tweaking i finaly gave up!
Can someone pls tell me why on earth it is adding LvB and FS in the rotation?

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              MT
rotation_priority6              LS
rotation_priority7              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.6
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.01
oh_crit                         31.01
mh_hit                          10.49
oh_hit                          10.49
mh_expertise_rating             132
oh_expertise_rating             132
ap                              3815
haste                           3.57
armor_penetration               2.53
str                             129
agi                             831
int                             508
spi                             153
spellpower                      1144
spell_crit                      23.36
spell_hit                       13.11
max_mana                        11731
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

................................................................................

MH:
miss                198178         12.33%
dodge               32161          2.00%
glancing            401899         25.01%
hit                 382534         23.80%
crit                592397         36.86%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.62%
procs/swings        14.60%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               11666          2.05%
hit                 334631         58.93%
crit                221555         39.02%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               6604           1.96%
hit                 198384         58.74%
crit                132738         39.30%

OH:
miss                368648         12.34%
dodge               59316          1.98%
glancing            747666         25.02%
hit                 710795         23.78%
crit                1102172        36.88%

OH Flametongue:
miss                109978         3.25%
hit                 2396072        70.88%
crit                874530         25.87%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               6791           2.05%
hit                 194028         58.60%
crit                130303         39.35%

Earth Shock:
miss                5281           3.21%
hit                 116788         70.98%
crit                42456          25.81%

Flame Shock:
miss                11523          3.24%
hit                 251619         70.84%
crit                92031          25.91%
dots                854889.00

Lava Burst:
miss                10899          3.25%
hit                 0              0.00%
crit                323951         96.75%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               10011          1.98%
hit                 297142         58.77%
crit                198474         39.25%

Lightning Shield:
miss                12276          3.25%
hit                 365472         96.75%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 29.48

flurry uptime                  77.56%
unleashed rage uptime          99.86%
elemental devastation uptime   91.97%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              33.47%
oh enchant uptime              26.67%
trinket1 uptime                32.90%
trinket2 uptime                39.02%
totem uptime                   47.32%
set bonus uptime               95.98%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.80      1.03%
mp5                 16.88     21.79%
replenishment       23.45     30.27%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      0.00%
shamanistic rage    36.33     46.90%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               352.81    22.97%    76.60
windfury            181.35    11.81%    4.73
flametongue         223.91    14.58%    56.34
stormstrike         73.84     4.81%     5.63      31.01     32.22%
lava lash           51.53     3.35%     8.43      15.99     16.61%
earth shock         83.76     5.45%     2.74      10.39     10.79%
flame shock         139.75    9.1%      5.92      2.34      2.43%
lava burst          352.28    22.93%    5.58      36.53     37.95%
lightning shield    76.81     5%        0.70      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 1536.05
MPS                 96.26
MP2min              11550.93
MRPS                78.13
Out of mana time    2.78%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 5.42s
simulation speed: 664084x

Last edited by Solema : 03/15/09 at 1:11 PM.
#1613SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Why?
I guess my post wasn't clear enough, it should have had an "expertise" in there before that last EP. It took this next Pitbuller post for me to understand what he was getting at.

Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Sim values are great for everything else but stats that cap. Let's make an example. If you get trinket with 64expertice with same proc(or ssame value) as mirror of truth. Ep value will show that 64expertise > 84crit rating(~192ep > ~168ep). But when you replace your trinket you go over expertise cap and you need replace four gems with ap ones. This will give you 128ap. This give 40ep loss isntead of 24ep gain. But if you use expertise value of 2 you know that trinket is inferior one(128ep < 168ep).
That makes sense.
#1614SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Densor
Actually, you'll want to set any stats that are capped, like expertise and hit, to whichever stat has the highest effective EP weight (EP modified by item value). For now, that means 2 due to AP, but if haste becomes the better stat to stack, then you'd have to set the value to your value for haste.

The only exceptions are when you have no available gem sockets to change out if you drop or gain some expertise or hit. I don't think that'll be much of a problem with 3.1, but it is still possible. In the first case, where you have can't use gems to gain anymore hit or expertise, you need to use the negative value. In the second case, where you can't drop any expertise or hit gems from your sockets, you need to use a 0 value.
#1615SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Dragon-CR
Originally Posted by Densor View Post
Actually, you'll want to set any stats that are capped, like expertise and hit, to whichever stat has the highest effective EP weight (EP modified by item value). For now, that means 2 due to AP, but if haste becomes the better stat to stack, then you'd have to set the value to your value for haste.

The only exceptions are when you have no available gem sockets to change out if you drop or gain some expertise or hit. I don't think that'll be much of a problem with 3.1, but it is still possible. In the first case, where you have can't use gems to gain anymore hit or expertise, you need to use the negative value. In the second case, where you can't drop any expertise or hit gems from your sockets, you need to use a 0 value.
I'd say that's only true so long as you're gemming/enchanting for hit and expertise somewhere. Basically if you're expertise capped and gemmed/enchanted for it anywhere, then expertise EP value is 2, if you get 100% of your exp from gear then it's EP value is 0. For hit it's the same thing except if gemmed/enchanted it's 2 or it's simmed EP value, whichever is higher (probably 2) and its base EP value if not gemmed or enchanted.

Replace 2 above with haste EP post 3.1.
#1616SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Luc
I use a slightly different method to give EP value to a stat which can be capped via Gems.

I give the stat an EP value which is between its capped and non capped value with the exact position of that value being equal to the proportion of my Gem slots that need to be filled to meet the cap.

For example. If my simm'ed hit rating EP = 3.1 for <14% and EP = 1.8 >14%.
If I use pure hit in all my slots, I can gain ~150 hit rating, however I only need ~115 hit rating from gems to reach 14%.

115/150 = 0.77 finding proportion
3.1-1.8 = 1.3
1.3 x 0.77 = ~1
1.8 + ~1 = ~2.8 proportionally mid-range

I'll set hit EP to 2.8 when selecting gear.

If I were only considering swapping a single piece of gear, then an EP of 2 for hit (equiv to AP) might net me a slightly better single upgrade, as I still have more room to swap out AP and swap in Hit on an even basis, but then if I use the 2 value and look over my whole set of gear, I'll find that some of my BiS items are no longer valued at BiS because of the lower hit EP - but were I to swap them for the 'new' BiS item then my hit rating might drop drastically and raise the hit EP back up above 2 again. A viscous cycle that won't really stop.

I find the proportional method works better for considering a whole set of armor with the best potential and avoiding the catch 22 type situation when EP values instantly jump between two very different numbers due to cap's. The gem slots still allow you to match the stats up nicely to their cap's to get the maximum potential out of the highest EP stats.
#1617SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3syzygylock
Hi all, I have been a long time reader, first time poster. I am a bit confused about the simulator output. I noticed that in this thread, all the dps yield from people posting are like > 4k dps. I tried to use the same config that people posted but the simulator always reported ~2k dps. Is there something that I missed?

Thanks,
#1618SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
Originally Posted by syzygylock View Post
Hi all, I have been a long time reader, first time poster. I am a bit confused about the simulator output. I noticed that in this thread, all the dps yield from people posting are like > 4k dps. I tried to use the same config that people posted but the simulator always reported ~2k dps. Is there something that I missed?

Thanks,
Check your raid buffs. Make sure to uncheck simulate mana. That usually reduces your maximum dps output by quite a bit. Check the rotation you placed in and make sure you know what spells that shorthand actually stands for.
#1619SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3syzygylock
I did, but it came out to be 1.7k dps. Did you guys lower the boss' armor or raid buff? Anyways, I am attaching the config file.

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              ES_SS
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              0/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           0/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        1.80
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         22.57
oh_crit                         22.57
mh_hit                          10.67
oh_hit                          10.67
mh_expertise_rating             117.00
oh_expertise_rating             117.00
ap                              2852
haste                           1.65
armor_penetration               3.90
str                             125
agi                             720
int                             413
spi                             145
spellpower                      855
spell_crit                      15.69
spell_hit                       13.34
max_mana                        10311
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        meteorite_whetstone
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  2/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Here's my output:

MH:
miss                1856586        10.30%
dodge               539890         2.99%
glancing            4496757        24.95%
hit                 6905381        38.31%
crit                4228024        23.45%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          17.16%
procs/swings        15.21%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               206984         3.08%
hit                 4792281        71.26%
crit                1726159        25.67%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               123310         3.02%
hit                 2930332        71.70%
crit                1033556        25.29%

OH:
miss                2685900        10.31%
dodge               780681         3.00%
glancing            6501551        24.96%
hit                 9970978        38.28%
crit                6109395        23.45%

OH Flametongue:
miss                1153887        3.66%
hit                 25002550       79.31%
crit                5368698        17.03%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               118341         2.99%
hit                 2839848        71.64%
crit                1005699        25.37%

Earth Shock:
miss                200297         3.68%
hit                 4309034        79.26%
crit                927392         17.06%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               158143         3.01%
hit                 3749757        71.35%
crit                1347907        25.65%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                143538         3.71%
hit                 3062626        79.22%
crit                659761         17.07%

Lightning Shield:
miss                154828         4.02%
hit                 3700296        95.98%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 34.57

flurry uptime                  59.93%
unleashed rage uptime          98.11%
elemental devastation uptime   37.78%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              38.67%
oh enchant uptime              32.65%
trinket1 uptime                20.37%
trinket2 uptime                32.30%
totem uptime                   49.12%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      -1.#J%
mp5                 0.00      -1.#J%
replenishment       0.00      -1.#J%
unrelenting storm   0.00      -1.#J%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      -1.#J%
shamanistic rage    0.00      -1.#J%
mana potion         0.00      -1.#J%
misc potion         0.00      -1.#J%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               471.68    26.46%    73.46
windfury            238.71    13.39%    5.60
flametongue         232.59    13.05%    52.54
stormstrike         112.88    6.33%     6.81      37.53     24.54%
lava lash           85.91     4.82%     8.76      21.37     13.97%
earth shock         292.06    16.38%    9.06      50.22     32.84%
lightning bolt      256.19    14.37%    6.44      43.81     28.65%
lightning shield    92.76     5.2%      0.71      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 1782.77
MPS                 152.94
MP2min              18352.55
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 16.21s
simulation speed: 2220851x
#1620SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Densor
You have no raid buffs specified, which means your DPS will suck. Enhancement shaman benefit from almost every raid buff. Additionally, you have an odd spec specified, missing 3 points in Elemental Fury. You also have no food or elixirs specified.

Adding in raid buffs to your config brought you over to over 3600 DPS.
#1621SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3syzygylock
Ah! I thought that we should not use any buff when running the simulator. And yes, the talent is wrong. But just to verify, when running the simulator we should put on every buffs available right?

Thanks,
#1622SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Densor
You put in all the buffs where it specifies in the config file here (the defaults are the numbers after the '/'):

armor_debuff_major              0/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           0/178
intellect_buff                  0/60
Then, when you have no buffs or imbues on your character, you put your stats in here:

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        1.80
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         22.57
oh_crit                         22.57
mh_hit                          10.67
oh_hit                          10.67
mh_expertise_rating             117.00
oh_expertise_rating             117.00
ap                              2852
haste                           1.65
armor_penetration               3.90
str                             125
agi                             720
int                             413
spi                             145
spellpower                      855
spell_crit                      15.69
spell_hit                       13.34
max_mana                        10311
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        meteorite_whetstone
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  2/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
The sim factors in how all the specified buffs affect your base stats and then figures out your DPS from there.
#1623SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by syzygylock View Post
Ah! I thought that we should not use any buff when running the simulator. And yes, the talent is wrong. But just to verify, when running the simulator we should put on every buffs available right?

Thanks,
You should put into the sim every buff that you are going to have available. The idea is to "simulate" real conditions so that you can maximize your performance.
#1624SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Solema
You are also not using MT (magma totem) in your rotation and use ES or ES_SS not both.

I know i'm playing with fire posting this again but i fear my post was overshadowed by the hit/exp values conversation and wasnt read.If anyone can figure out what i'm doing wrong and getting only 1.5k dps i will be gratefull.The only thing i have noticed is that it is adding LvB and FS in the rotation for some reason i can't explain.This is my config:

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              MT
rotation_priority6              LS
rotation_priority7              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.6
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.01
oh_crit                         31.01
mh_hit                          10.49
oh_hit                          10.49
mh_expertise_rating             132
oh_expertise_rating             132
ap                              3815
haste                           3.57
armor_penetration               2.53
str                             129
agi                             831
int                             508
spi                             153
spellpower                      1144
spell_crit                      23.36
spell_hit                       13.11
max_mana                        11731
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               352.81    22.97%    76.60
windfury            181.35    11.81%    4.73
flametongue         223.91    14.58%    56.34
stormstrike         73.84     4.81%     5.63      31.01     32.22%
lava lash           51.53     3.35%     8.43      15.99     16.61%
earth shock         83.76     5.45%     2.74      10.39     10.79%
flame shock         139.75    9.1%      5.92      2.34      2.43%
lava burst          352.28    22.93%    5.58      36.53     37.95%
lightning shield    76.81     5%        0.70      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 1536.05
MPS                 96.26
MP2min              11550.93
MRPS                78.13
Out of mana time    2.78%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 5.42s
simulation speed: 664084x
#1625SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ruga
did you untick FS and LvB and, just to be sure, move it down in the list?
#1626SourcePosted onundefinedSolema
Yes.It would be in the config rotation if i didnt untick it wouldnt it?
#1627SourcePosted onundefinedButakuti
Solema, just to be sure. Are you renaming the config file when you enter your stats/rotation or are you using the gui?

If you are renaming the config, make sure the sim is running with the correct config file. Your output looks exactly like what the default config gives, so your probably not using the correct file name.

If you edit 'start_simulation' and is shows this:

enhsim.exe config.txt output=output.txt
then make sure to change 'config.txt' to the name of your altered config file.

For example, when I run the sim I create my config file called 'config-enh.txt'. Since this is the name of the config I want the sim to use, I have the following in the 'start_simulation' batch file:

enhsim.exe config-enh.txt output=output.txt
#1628SourcePosted onundefinedSolema
I'm using the GUI.I dont touch the config at all.Do i still have to rename something?

EDIT:Woot got it!Thanks m8 you are great

Last edited by Solema : Yesterday at 1:13 PM.
#1629SourcePosted onundefinedSylari
Sorry if this is a bit offtopic, but I'm getting some weird results from the sim, specifically The Stray I just picked up, unenchanted, is simming higher than my split greathammer with mongoose? I understand the Stray WILL be good in 3.1 ( possibly the best pre-ulduar? ).. but I can't understand why it's simming so well for me right now
#1630SourcePosted onundefinedRounced
Stray gives additional Flurry uptime if your weapons are synced in speed. This does occur in the game but not 100% of the time (there was discussion on it earlier in the thread) but seems to have a much higher percentage in the sim.

Easy workaround is to set one of your weapons to 2.59 or 2.61 and rerun the Sim, but just keep in mind that it is a real phenomenon provided you can keep the weapons synced.
#991SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ardonomus
Regarding the negative haste values.

I just downloaded the newest sim and figured I'd finally redo my EP values, but when I did I had a negative value for haste (and expertise, but that's because I sat expertise to -10).

I fiddled around a little with it, and I noticed I had a very low (but not negative!) value for haste when I checked the Naxx_melee_2 setbonus. However, I got a negative value when I used the Naxx_melee_4 bonus. Could it be an issue with these bonuses or flurry, or is it simply as people have suggested, RNG?
#992SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Negative haste value is problem of windfury cd. When main hand goes down 1.5s wf procs goes down. Becouse mongoose isn't allways up there is about 4% range where haste have reduced value. This value can be also negative. Try without haste buffs, passive haste, mongoose and flurry using 1.5s main hand. Then run sim. You will get negative haste value for sure becouse effective Wf proc goes down at 16.66% to 14.28%.
#993SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3phasedweasel
Originally Posted by Zyla View Post
It's been reverted!
Can you link the source on that, please?
#994SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Acks
Originally Posted by phasedweasel View Post
Can you link the source on that, please?
Source


Worth noting the change to the LB glyph insofar as the next iteration of EnhSim is concerned:

Glyph of Lightning Bolt -- No longer affects cost. Now increases damage by 4%.

Source
#995SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tanfel
Hi everyone,

I am kind of new at this forum so sorry for that maybe stupid question.

I cant run the simulator, because my Computer still has no SSE2, so i wanted to ask, if it is possible to get it run in any other ways or if there are simple alternatives to it.

Thanks
#996SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3aers
From PTR 3.0.8 Build 9355 :

Glyph of Windfury Weapon - Increases the chance per swing for Windfury Weapon to trigger by 5%. (Old - The attack power bonus on the additional attacks granted by Windfury Weapon is increased by 40%.)
#997SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lumb
Hey tukaz, just to let you know:

You've listed the trinket "Bandit's_Insignia" as "Bandits_Insignia", and as a result it doesn't appear automatically when you export from ShockAndAwe
#998SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Leviathon
Originally Posted by aers View Post
I can see the glyph change being a hint to them changing WF to mainhand only and removing the cooldown.

Last edited by Leviathon : 12/13/08 at 10:43 AM.
#999SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
New wf glyph will boost singe wield wf damage about 15.4-20%. This is about ~2% dps increase. Math behind these numbes are simple. After all haste effect with slower than 1.5s weapon we actual proc chance is 16.666% and with that glyph it's 20%. If main hand hit faster than 1.5s then numbers are 14.44% and 16.66%.
0.2 / 0.1666... = 1.2
0.16666... / 0.1444... = 1.1538

Then if wf damage is about 10-15% total damage this give about ~2% damage increase. Increased wf hits also give some benefit to damage I can guess this is around +1%. Much better that before.
#1000SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Staticus
Would this also make totem of splintering more viable too? (still carrying stonebreakers and have yet to see dueling drop in naxx)
#1001SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Canopener
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
New wf glyph will boost singe wield wf damage about 15.4-20%. This is about ~2% dps increase. Math behind these numbes are simple. After all haste effect with slower than 1.5s weapon we actual proc chance is 16.666% and with that glyph it's 20%. If main hand hit faster than 1.5s then numbers are 14.44% and 16.66%.
0.2 / 0.1666... = 1.2
0.16666... / 0.1444... = 1.1538

Then if wf damage is about 10-15% total damage this give about ~2% damage increase. Increased wf hits also give some benefit to damage I can guess this is around +1%. Much better that before.
Are you sure this is correct? As it was stated in the 'bible', not all attacks can proc WF, and not all misses could have been a potential WF proc. Just because we get 80% of our 20% proc rate now with a slow 1 handed weapon, doesn't mean we will get 80% of our 25% proc rate in the next patch, right?

Of course if it does work out to a 20% proc rate, that tells me they have no plans to ever take WF off the CD, as it will essentially have the 20% stated proc rate we should have been getting all along.
#1002SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sado
Is there any data from the sim to support whether the Totem of Splintering or the Totem of Dueling is better?
#1003SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sado View Post
Is there any data from the sim to support whether the Totem of Splintering or the Totem of Dueling is better?
They are in the sim, run it and see.

Splintering is a PoS btw, even with the new glyph it's still a PoS.

Wait for the new PvP ones, even the Blue is better then any of our current options (I think - but it's close enough that if you don't have Dueling you won't miss it).
#1004SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Otoswrath
comparing angry dread from noth 25, to the stray from 10man trash. Both used in the OH i'm getting a 29dps increase in favor of the stray even though the decline in stats and a difference of only 0.1 weapon speed. My question is what exactly is it about that 0.1 speed that makes up so much in favor of this weapon?
#1005SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Enhsim really seems to prefer matched weapon speeds.

For example I ran the sim with my stats, with 2.5/2.6, 2.6/2.6, 2.7/2.6 weapon speeds with wf/ft and mongoose/mongoose.
2.5/2.6: 4067.60 dps
2.6/2.6: 4137.82 dps
2.7/2.6: 4106.80 dps

Looking into the breakdown to find the source of the dps increase, and it appears to be a higher flurry uptime.
2.5/2.6: 84.90%
2.6/2.6: 91.89%
2.7/2.6: 85.05%

Is this something that other people see with their stats? Is it a real mechanic, or a bug in the sim?
#1676SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
When loading a saved config, raid buffs are not loading, it always loads with all buffs unchecked.

edit - Issue with 1.6.6 when running my normal config this was the output

Edit2 - nm it's because the default buff/debuff for Sunder and Faerie Fire is set to the previous values even though it is now percentage based. Revised all debuffs/buffs and boss values as per Levva's post EnhSim, DPS simulator and it is working fine.

Last edited by Rouncer : 04/11/09 at 2:51 PM.
#1677SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
Yes, the bloodlust_casters 2 is redundant. Options should be 0 or 1.

Config file is bad if you are looking for some default values. If you or someone else have some spare time, they could setup some good default config for me.
Ok I'll tidy up a couple of things once I'm done getting the Rawr export working and post it here.

Edit : Oh one thing just noted "drums_of_battle" as an option to misc_item - Drums no longer work for lvl 80s so should be removed as a viable option in the GUI/Sim.

Question : How is Focus Magic treated as a buff in the sim. I'm doubtful a mage would put it on an Enh Shammy but...

I ask because its mentioned in the default config (strangely under "spellpower_buff" which it obviously isn't)

Last edited by Levva : 04/11/09 at 12:34 PM.
#1678SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Edit : Oh one thing just noted "drums_of_battle" as an option to misc_item - Drums no longer work for lvl 80s so should be removed as a viable option in the GUI/Sim.
Would it be possible to put the Engineering Tinkers as options there?

Hyperspeed Accelerators - Spell - World of Warcraft
Permanently attaches hyperspeed accelerators to a pair of gloves, allowing a skilled engineer to increase their haste rating by 340 for 10 sec. The gloves can only be activated every minute.

Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket
deals 1440 to 1760 Fire damage (Up from 1035 to 1265), cooldown lowered from 1 min to 45 sec.

Neither item is on the GCD. Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket crits at player's spell crit rate for 150% damage (unaffected by player talents). Damage is done as Fire and benefits from any debuff that can increase fire/spell damage.
#1679SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
When loading a saved config, raid buffs are not loading, it always loads with all buffs unchecked.
This is true of clicking the copy from clipboard as well, it does the sanity check to see all buffs present but isn't applying the buffs to the gui checkboxes & textboxes.
#1680SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Expertise is broken for EP calculations.

Set it to 0 with an EP value of 4 and it still reported that expertise was past the cap and skipped the test. The issue is with the expertise on Unleashed Rage.

With 0 points in Unleashed Rage it works fine. With even a single point in Unleashed Rage the EP runs start to skip the test saying that it is over the cap.

Testing the dodge reduction from Unleashed Rage's Expertise and it seems to be giving 6 points of Expertise per talent point instead of 3 points since with 0 expertise rating the sim showed a 1.5% reduction in the dodge rate per talent point, giving 2% dodged attacks with 3 points in Unleashed Rage with the Boss dodge rate set to 6.5%.

However that is not related to what is wrong with the EP calculations since even with the Expertise EP value set to 0.1 and only 1 point in Unleashed Rage it still skipped the test reporting that it was over the cap.
#1681SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Suggested Default Config file

#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			1000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				100	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				200	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			1	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		1	//{ 0 | 1 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SW = spirit wolves
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3		MW5_LB
rotation_priority4		ES_SS
rotation_priority5		SS
rotation_priority6		ES
rotation_priority7		LL
rotation_priority8		MT
rotation_priority9		LS



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			24.00	//%
armor				10645	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		0.0/20.0		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0.0/5.0		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	0.0/4.0		//%, bloody frenzy, savage combat
melee_haste_buff		0.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		0/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	0.0/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	0.0/5.0		//%, improved scorch, winter's chill, imp.shadow bolt
spell_damage_debuff		0.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of the elements
spellpower_buff			0/280		//flametongue totem, totem of wrath
spell_hit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			0.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	0.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath, master poisoner
stat_multiplier			0.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			0/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		0/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			0/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			flask_of_endless_rage
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			-
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				fish_feast
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }

misc_item			-
// { - }



###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race                            orc	//{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         29.36	//%
oh_crit                         29.36
mh_hit                          8.39	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit                          8.39
mh_expertise_rating             140	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating             140
ap                              3455	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
melee_haste                     5.31	//%
armor_penetration               0.00	//%
str                             139
agi                             721
int                             480
spi                             162
spellpower                      1036	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit                      22.87	//%
spell_hit                       10.48	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
spell_haste                     4.09	//%
max_mana                        11316
mp5                             0	//in combat

mh_imbue	 		windfury
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | flametongue_9 | frostbrand | - }

mh_enchant			berserking
oh_enchant			berserking
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | berserking | - }

mh_weapon			axe
oh_weapon			axe
//{ axe | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2			grim_toll
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  abacus_of_violent_odds | badge_of_tenacity |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | fury_of_the_five_flights |
//  grim_toll | loathebs_shadow | mirror_of_truth | 
//  the_skull_of_guldan | meteorite_whetstone | embrace_of_the_spider |
//  dying curse | illustration_of_the_dragon_soul |
//  sundial_of_the_exiled | forge_ember | incisor_fragment |
//  mark_of_the_war_prisoner | sphere_of_red_dragons_blood |
//  tome_of_arcane_phenomena | mark_of_norgannon | fezziks_pocketwatch |
//  thorny_rose_brooch | rune_of_finite_variation | bandits_insignia |
//  darkmoon_card_greatness | pendulum_of_telluric_currents |
//  vestige_of_haldor | twilight_serpent | thunder_capacitor |
//  tears_of_bitter_anguish | - }

totem				totem_of_dueling
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | totem_of_splintering |
//  totem_of_ancestral_guidance | totem_of_the_void | skycall_totem | 
//  totem_of_hex | totem_of_dueling | totem_of_the_elemental_plane |
//  deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | hateful_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability |
//  savage_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | deadly_gladiators_totem_of_survival |
//  hateful_gladiators_totem_of_survival | savage_gladiators_totem_of_survival | - }

set_bonus1			naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2			-
set_bonus3			-
//higher set bonuses include lower ones eg. naxx_melee_4 includes naxx_melee_2
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness | desolation_battlegear |
//  skyshatter_harness_2 | skyshatter_harness_4 | skyshatter_regalia_2 |
//  skyshatter_regalia_4 | naxx_melee_2 | naxx_melee_4 | gladiators_earthshaker |
//  naxx_nuker_2 | naxx_nuker_4 | worldbreaker_battlegear_2 | worldbreaker_battlegear_4 | - }

metagem				relentless_earthstorm_diamond
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | 
//  chaotic_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyflare_diamond |
//  ember_skyflare_diamond | relentless_earthsiege_diamond | - }

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			stormstrike
glyph_major2			flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3			windfury_weapon
//{ lightning_shield | flametongue_weapon | lightning_bolt |
//  windfury_weapon | stormstrike | earth_shock | lava | lava_lash |
//  water_mastery | feral_spirit | - }

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-



#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		2/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		0/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			3/3
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			3/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			5/5
call_of_flame			2/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			1/1
elemental_fury			5/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/3
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/3
shamanism			0/5
Rouncer may recognise most of the character related setup

Last edited by Levva : 04/11/09 at 4:24 PM.
#1682SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Feral Spirits

Some testing on Feral Spirits on PTR build 9757 hopefully this is an ok place to post it given Tukez is working on the FS for the new sim version :

NB. Obviously I had to have talents equipped otherwise I couldn't summon the wolves.

Naked values :
self: Str 121, Agi 71, Int 134, AP 466, Dmg 67-68, Speed 2.0, dps 33.8, Spell 139
Pet: Str 331, Agi 113, Int 65, AP 786 (tooltip 642+144), Dmg 331-456, Dps 262.3, Speed 1.5, Spell 0

I noted that the pet AP +144 is 30.9% of my AP. I applied SoE totem :

self: Str 299, Agi 249, Int 134, AP 822, Dmg 118-119, Dps Speed 2.0, Dps 59.2, Spell 246
pet: Str 509, Agi 291, Int 65, AP 1252 (tooltip 998+254), Dmg 381-506, Dps 295.6, Speed 1.5, Spell 0

Note that the +254 is still exactly 30.9% of my AP.

I then ate some grilled sculptin to give +60AP.

self: Str 121, Agi 71, Int 134, AP 526, Dmg 76-77, Speed 2.0, dps 38.1, Spell 157
Pet: Str 331, Agi 113, Int 65, AP 805 (tooltip 642+163), Dmg 333-456, Dps 263.7, Speed 1.5, Spell 0

The +163 AP is 30.98% of my AP.

So I'm coming to the conclusion that the pets get 31% of our AP, definitely more than 30%.

It's obvious as well that they get AP from Str & Agi too as the SoE totem boosted their base AP by 356 exactly ie: 1:1 ratio with Str & Agi. Edit: Further evidence later confirms this is wrong and its 2xStr with NO Agi contribution.

Using a Scroll of Agi on myself in addition to the grilled sculptin gives :

self: Str 121, Agi 101, Int 134, AP 556, Dmg 80-81, Speed 2.0, dps 40.2, Spell 167
Pet: Str 331, Agi 113, Int 65, AP 814 (tooltip 642+172), Dmg 333-459, Dps 264.3, Speed 1.5, Spell 0

So confirming they aren't getting our Agi buffs only buffs like totems/auras. Again 31% seems reasonable assumption.

Clearing all buffs and equipping some gear gives :

self: Str 186, Agi 766, Int 982, AP 3145, Dmg 919-1178, Speed 2.31, dps 454.1, Spell 943
Pet: Str 331, Agi 113, Int 65, AP 1616 (tooltip 642+974), Dmg 420-545, Dps 321.6, Speed 1.5, Spell 0

So this time 974/3145 = 30.97%.

I asked a warlock to buff them with fel intellect when summoned and he reported they were invalid targets, he was a bit clueless though so I'd want this confirmed by someone with a clue.

I was able to buff them with an Agility Scroll and extremely interestingly that DID NOT BOOST THEIR Attack Power!!! I then noted that when not summoned the tooltip for their strength says gives -20 Attackpower. Suddenly it all made sense.

Their AP formula is (Strength*2-20)+31% player AP, and their base dps formulae is 206.17 + AP/14.

This makes sense that they get strength * 2 as we always suspected Blizzard had still screwed up their setup and was basing it on our BC stats.

Now some important things to note they are only getting passively applied buffs or buffs applied directly to them, they do not benefit from our buffs other than ones that improve our AP.

Their base dps is of course modified by their miss chance from gaining none of our expertise they should be melee hit capped assuming player is yellow hit capped as they get our hit rating. Their base dps is also modified by crits & probably glancing blows (can anyone confirm this)?

Their crit percentage seems quite low, however I have not yet determined how this is arrived at.

Their "weapon" speed is 1.5 but it is affected by haste buffs (NOT player haste rating though) so they get +20% haste from WF totem for instance (talented of course). This takes their speed to 1.25, and dps on tooltip jumps by exactly 20%. They DO NOT get affected by bloodlust if summoned AFTER bloodlust up. If you summon them and THEN do a bloodlust they ARE affected. Weapon speed with BL = 1.15 and dps +30% boost, weapon speed with BL & WF (talented) = 0.96 and dps = 56% boost which is exactly as expected.

Last edited by Levva : 04/11/09 at 8:07 PM.
#1683SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.6.8

1.6.8
-Spirit Wolves get Bloodlust on first fight too.
-Spirit Wolves cooldown fixed to 3min.
-Spirit Wolves base stats and scaling fixed to correct values.
-Unleashed Rage expertise bug fixed.
-Config option misc_item removed.
-New config options: gloves_enchant and cloak_enchant.
-Enchants Hyperspeed Accelerators, Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket, Lightweave Embroidery and Swordguard Embroidery added.
-Updated default config.

Thanks for the bug reports.
#1684SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
kaoticz
Not sure if someone mentioned this recently, if they have I apologize for any reiteration!

The Fire Elemental/Earth Elemental buffs on the PTR are pretty awesome. Curious if for knowledges sake we could get the Fire Elemental added into the sim to check how it matches up against Magma Totem? I have a feeling it should be only very slightly worse or maybe even equal to magma, maybe not, but I'm curious nonetheless. My Fire Elemental was hitting for around ~900 melee swings and 1400-1800 novas, and it's actually like.... mana efficient now.

I plan to do many target dummy tests when it goes live to compare, but the 20 min cooldown kinda sucks for testing purposes (10min glyphed) :P.

Thanks, and keep up the great work tukez!

P.S. I guess I should make an example of how I would like to test it. Using Fire ele until it expires and then swapping back to good ole' magma totem until combat is over.

Last edited by kaoticz : 04/13/09 at 2:03 PM.
#1685SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rava
Originally Posted by kaoticz View Post
Not sure if someone mentioned this recently, if they have I apologize for any reiteration!

The Fire Elemental/Earth Elemental buffs on the PTR are pretty awesome. Curious if for knowledges sake we could get the Fire Elemental added into the sim to check how it matches up against Magma Totem? I have a feeling it should be only very slightly worse or maybe even equal to magma, maybe not, but I'm curious nonetheless. My Fire Elemental was hitting for around ~900 melee swings and 1400-1800 novas, and it's actually like.... mana efficient now.

I plan to do many target dummy tests when it goes live to compare, but the 20 min cooldown kinda sucks for testing purposes (10min glyphed) :P.

Thanks, and keep up the great work tukez!

P.S. I guess I should make an example of how I would like to test it. Using Fire ele until it expires and then swapping back to good ole' magma totem until combat is over.
It should greatly surpass Magma during it's up time provided it doesn't die. The WWS I originally made expired, but I do recall it's DPS during it's duration being 991 while I was unbuffed/the dummy wasn't debuffed. Magma on the other hand while sporting full raid buffs, double ft, and a fully debuffed mob is barely approaching 600 dps for me. The elemental doesn't gain a lot of raid buffs(totems, ur, heroism, etc) which is a blessing in disguise allowing you to drop it when the stars align and you get the most out of it.
#1686SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Whitebeast
hi

im a bit new to this sim and dont quite get everything due to my bad english or something else :P so id be very grateful if someone can enlighten me.. also i apologise you must have seen tons of questions like this

this is my config.txt



simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              MT
rotation_priority5              ES_SS
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.65
oh_crit                         31.65
mh_hit                          11.53
oh_hit                          11.53
mh_expertise_rating             215
oh_expertise_rating             215
ap                              3749
haste                           3.48
armor_penetration               1.82
str                             133
agi                             948
int                             421
spi                             156
spellpower                      1398
spell_crit                      22.08
spell_hit                       14.41
max_mana                        10431
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    2/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
is everything filled in corectly? is my rotation good?


and this is my output file


................................................................................

MH:
miss                231059         9.44%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            611149         24.98%
hit                 479360   Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana calculated.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit calculated.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5223.51
ap                        1.00      0.51      5325.13        101.63
crit rating               2.56      1.30      5262.50        39.00
hit rating                1.72      0.87      5249.75        26.25
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5223.51
haste rating              0.63      0.32      5233.13        9.63
armor penetration rating  1.40      0.71      5244.91        21.40
spellpower                0.96      0.49      5296.84        73.33
mh dps                    6.62      3.37      5248.75        25.24
oh dps                    2.81      1.43      5234.21        10.70
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.98      
intelligence              7.01      
spirit                    0.46      0.24      5258.90        35.39
mana                      0.32      0.16      5264.29        40.79
mp5                       4.83      2.45      5272.60        49.09

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=2.56, HitRating=1.72, HasteRating=0.63, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.40, SpellDamage=0.96, MainHandDps=6.62, OffHandDps=2.81, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.98, Intellect=7.01, Spirit=0.46, Mana=0.32, Mp5=4.83 )
Loot Rank for WotLK

elapsed simulation time: 13000.00h
elapsed real time: 150.99s
simulation speed: 309960x
bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          4.57      4.14%
mp5                 0.00      0.00%
replenishment       0.00      0.00%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      0.00%
shamanistic rage    105.74    95.86%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc potion         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1749.36   33.46%    83.17
windfury            704.21    13.47%    6.67
flametongue         556.37    10.64%    50.42
stormstrike         263.50    5.04%     5.36      29.55     19.67%
lava lash           218.50    4.18%     6.69      13.73     9.14%
magma totem         428.77    8.2%      2.19      40.64     27.05%
earth shock         474.02    9.07%     6.54      25.69     17.10%
lightning bolt      695.38    13.3%     6.73      40.63     27.04%
lightning shield    137.64    2.63%     0.66      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 5227.77
MPS                 150.24
MP2min              18028.96
MRPS                177.23
Out of mana time    23.10%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 59.76s
simulation speed: 60246x

crit is kinda high and intelect too...is that suposed to be like that?

Last edited by Whitebeast : 04/13/09 at 4:09 PM. Reason: mistake
#1687SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Originally Posted by Whitebeast View Post
replenishment 0
water_shield 0
mana_spring_totem 0
blessing_of_wisdom 0
judgement_of_wisdom 0

...

crit is kinda high and intelect too...is that suposed to be like that?
Allowing no raid buffs for mana regen is why you're getting a high value for INT.
#1688SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Whitebeast View Post
hi

im a bit new to this sim and dont quite get everything due to my bad english or something else :P so id be very grateful if someone can enlighten me.. also i apologise you must have seen tons of questions like this

this is my config.txt
crit is kinda high and intelect too...is that suposed to be like that?
Hello,

First things first. For the love of all that is holy use [ code] [ /code] (without the spaces) when posting things like that.

Secondly take a look at this one section.

DPS 5227.77
MPS 150.24
MP2min 18028.96
MRPS 177.23
Out of mana time 23.10%
notice the OOM time? That's why Intellect has so much value. It's also why Crit has so much value since you have told the sim that you are specced for Elemental Focus.

Are you having incredible mana issues while raiding? If you are not then simply un-check the box that says "Simulate Mana" and that will fix things for you.
#1689SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
Originally Posted by rava View Post
It should greatly surpass Magma during it's up time provided it doesn't die. The WWS I originally made expired, but I do recall it's DPS during it's duration being 991 while I was unbuffed/the dummy wasn't debuffed. Magma on the other hand while sporting full raid buffs, double ft, and a fully debuffed mob is barely approaching 600 dps for me. The elemental doesn't gain a lot of raid buffs(totems, ur, heroism, etc) which is a blessing in disguise allowing you to drop it when the stars align and you get the most out of it.
Appreciate the response man, thanks

I had planned to test it out further on live but if what you're saying is true then that is amazing. It's even better than I thought it was! I still can't believe they made it not go oom in 5 seconds though, seriously, what was up with that idea? Heh :P
#1690SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Staticus
Nice to see the sim updated with the new mechanics. Just to clarify on the wolves, does the sim assume that they're synched with heroism since there's no option in the config for it? (likewise with refreshing magma totem as soon as a gcd is free for it)

I also notice that the boss values for miss, glancing and armour have gone down...has something changed there?

Last edited by Staticus : 04/13/09 at 7:44 PM.
#1691SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3hozzer
Strange values

Enhsim 1.6.6 and 1.6.8 are giving me strange values, and I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong. I've been using enhsim since 3.0, so if it's user error it's because I'm missing something that should probably be obvious, not that I'm unfamiliar with the software.

My config:
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   2
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         350
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           16
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LS
rotation_priority5              SR
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              FS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4
melee_haste_buff                20/20
melee_crit_chance_buff          5/5
attack_power_buff_flat          578/578
attack_power_buff_multiplier    10/10
spell_haste_buff                5/5
spell_crit_chance_buff          5/5
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5/5
spell_damage_debuff             13/13
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3/3
haste_buff                      3/3
percentage_damage_increase      3/3
crit_chance_debuff              3/3
stat_multiplier                 10/10
stat_add_buff                   74/74
agi_and_strength_buff           255/255
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.71
oh_crit                         31.71
mh_hit                          11.22
oh_hit                          11.22
mh_expertise_rating             141
oh_expertise_rating             141
ap                              3646
melee_haste                     9.91
armor_penetration               3.00
str                             133
agi                             797
int                             495
spi                             156
spellpower                      1158
spell_crit                      24.40
spell_hit                       14.03
spell_haste                     7.62
max_mana                        11541
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   5/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
My EP output:
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.17364% (30.787 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2849.32
ap                        1.00      0.09      2850.78        1.47
crit rating               5.77      0.53      2873.66        24.34
hit rating                5.10      0.47      2863.35        14.03
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -2849.32
haste rating              5.94      0.54      2867.30        17.98
armor penetration rating  3.72      0.34      2854.44        5.12
spellpower                7.67      0.70      2869.01        19.70
mh dps                    39.54     3.62      2867.44        18.12
oh dps                    20.62     1.89      2858.77        9.45
strength                  1.10      
agility                   2.71      
intelligence*             2.12      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -2849.32
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -2849.32
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -2849.32

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=5.77, HitRating=5.10, HasteRating=5.94, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=3.72, SpellDamage=7.67, MainHandDps=39.54, OffHandDps=20.62, Strength=1.10, Agility=2.71, Intellect=2.12, Spirit=0.00, Mana=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=5.94&dps=39.54&mp5=0.00&mcr=5.77&odps=20.62&spd=7.67&Agi=2.71&mhit=5.10&Int=2.12&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=3.72&Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 24.60s
simulation speed: 1463414x
Sim output:
................................................................................

MH:
miss                263361         9.78%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            645949         23.99%
hit                 516372         19.18%
crit                1266545        47.04%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.24%
procs/swings        13.94%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 428183         49.98%
crit                428569         50.02%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 190876         50.09%
crit                190223         49.91%

OH:
miss                274121         9.78%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            672633         23.99%
hit                 538132         19.19%
crit                1319207        47.05%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2053719        61.39%
crit                1291602        38.61%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 189691         49.77%
crit                191408         50.23%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 345839         61.41%
crit                217368         38.59%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 216579         49.87%
crit                217671         50.13%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 326099         61.46%
crit                204492         38.54%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 468801         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 49.59

flurry uptime                  88.23%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   75.66%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.80%
oh enchant uptime              36.04%
trinket1 uptime                0.00%
trinket2 uptime                18.18%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               626.15    21.98%    91.61
windfury            307.38    10.79%    7.14
flametongue         331.77    11.65%    55.76
stormstrike         100.73    3.54%     6.35      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           61.00     2.14%     7.24      19.94     9.94%
magma totem         358.82    12.6%     2.97      55.29     27.55%
earth shock         408.28    14.33%    9.39      60.66     30.23%
lightning bolt      478.83    16.81%    8.84      64.79     32.29%
lightning shield    175.28    6.15%     0.87      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 2848.24
MPS                 200.68
MP2min              24081.91
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 2.79s
simulation speed: 1290322x
Any suggestions?
#1692SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Staticus View Post
Nice to see the sim updated with the new mechanics. Just to clarify on the wolves, does the sim assume that they're synched with heroism since there's no option in the config for it? (likewise with refreshing magma totem as soon as a gcd is free for it)

I also notice that the boss values for miss, glancing and armour have gone down...has something changed there?
Spirit Wolves get Bloodlust. I set up the sim so, that if Spirit Wolves are first in the rotation, they will be cast before Bloodlust.

Default boss values have gone a little down. I don't know if something has changed really, but those are the results of the latest tests.
#1693SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Staticus View Post
Nice to see the sim updated with the new mechanics. Just to clarify on the wolves, does the sim assume that they're synched with heroism since there's no option in the config for it? (likewise with refreshing magma totem as soon as a gcd is free for it)

I also notice that the boss values for miss, glancing and armour have gone down...has something changed there?
Armour Penetration has changed. Bosses now have less armour and all armour reducing buffs are now percentages rather than flat amounts. So Sunder Armour is 20% armour debuff for instance. In addition to that we now get 25% more armour penetration percentage from armour pen rating. Also recent testing showed that glancing rate was more accurately 24% too, see the combat ratings thread for details.
#1694SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3underscore
hozzer:
attack_power_buff_flat          578/578
attack_power_buff_multiplier    10/10
The attack power buff multiplier is messing you up, you should leave it at 0/99.7 since you have unleashed rage. Also, I believe the attack power buff should be at 688/688.

The default config mentions that higher set bonuses include the lower one so it's redundant to put in naxx_melee_2 if you've put in 4.
#1695SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by underscore View Post
The default config mentions that higher set bonuses include the lower one so it's redundant to put in naxx_melee_2 if you've put in 4.

It just took me 30 seconds to prove to myself that you need to include both set bonuses and 20 seconds was just getting the GUI open on my desktop at work.

With both bonuses selected - 6226.74dps
with just Naxx Melee 4 selected - 6201.84dps

If you are going to state something like that then at least confirm that it works the way you say it does. Even if it says it works that way in the config file, take the time to at least do a minimal confirmation.

Hozzer the issue is a bug with the Simulator. For whatever reason if you input a 10% uptime for Unleashed Rage it drops your dps incredibly. If you use the default 99.7% or even just have it unselected and have the talents in place in your talent panel it works fine. It's definitely a bug though since unclicking the option and not having the talents still had my dps at 5753 whereas selecting for a 10% uptime took it to 2896.

Last edited by Rouncer : 04/14/09 at 9:14 AM.
#1696SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tronso
I've noticed there's no check to see if a set bonus is already being used. For example, adding naxx_melee_2 3 times will result in more damage then 2 times and 2 more then 1 time
#1697SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
It just took me 30 seconds to prove to myself that you need to include both set bonuses and 20 seconds was just getting the GUI open on my desktop at work.

With both bonuses selected - 6226.74dps
with just Naxx Melee 4 selected - 6201.84dps

If you are going to state something like that then at least confirm that it works the way you say it does. Even if it says it works that way in the config file, take the time to at least do a minimal confirmation.

Hozzer the issue is a bug with the Simulator. For whatever reason if you input a 10% uptime for Unleashed Rage it drops your dps incredibly. If you use the default 99.7% or even just have it unselected and have the talents in place in your talent panel it works fine. It's definitely a bug though since unclicking the option and not having the talents still had my dps at 5753 whereas selecting for a 10% uptime took it to 2896.
You do not need to include both set bonuses. In this case, naxx_melee_2 bonus is added twice.

There definitely is a bug in the ap multiplier buff. I fixed it for the next version. Notice, that if you use ap multiplier buff, Unleashed Rage will not be modelled. If you have Unleashed Rage, you should not use the buff. This also reads in the tooltip.
#1698SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haalun
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
It just took me 30 seconds to prove to myself that you need to include both set bonuses and 20 seconds was just getting the GUI open on my desktop at work.

With both bonuses selected - 6226.74dps
with just Naxx Melee 4 selected - 6201.84dps

If you are going to state something like that then at least confirm that it works the way you say it does. Even if it says it works that way in the config file, take the time to at least do a minimal confirmation.
I noticed the same thing, but looking at the code it seems like selecting both makes it apply the 2-piece bonus twice:

    else if (name == "naxx_melee_2" || name == "60168") {
      enhsims_[i]->lightning_shield_->damage_multiplier_ *= 1.10f;
    }
    else if (name == "naxx_melee_4" || name == "60169") {
      enhsims_[i]->lightning_shield_->damage_multiplier_ *= 1.10f;
      enhsims_[i]->flurry_->haste_ += 0.05f;
    }
(You don't have to understand C++ to see that both the 2-piece and the 4-piece apply the lightning shield damage bonus.)

This seems like a bug to me, either the bonuses should be separate or you shouldn't be allowed to specify both.
#1699SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
I don't code or even understand even the basics of writing code, so why would I open the file to look at the code. My attempting to debug the code by reading the file in this situation would be on par with one of you telling me what I was doing wrong during a Root Canal.

I don't care if I was wrong about needing to include both bonuses or not, making a statement without checking to see if it makes a difference in the results is what bothers me. Especially if you are dealing with someone showing obviously bugged results.


Edit - Tukez if you are going to make it possible to select bonuses such that a bonus is going to be added twice then we are going to be having issues with people screwing it up until 3.2 comes out. Just make it one bonus per selection since that will alleviate many of the potential issues with people selecting the wrong things.

Last edited by Rouncer : 04/14/09 at 10:00 AM.
#1700SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I don't code or even understand even the basics of writing code, so why would I open the file to look at the code. My attempting to debug the code by reading the file in this situation would be on par with one of you telling me what I was doing wrong during a Root Canal.

I don't care if I was wrong about needing to include both bonuses or not, making a statement without checking to see if it makes a difference in the results is what bothers me. Especially if you are dealing with someone showing obviously bugged results.


Edit - Tukez if you are going to make it possible to select bonuses such that a bonus is going to be added twice then we are going to be having issues with people screwing it up until 3.2 comes out. Just make it one bonus per selection since that will alleviate many of the potential issues with people selecting the wrong things.
Ah so you are in dentistry?? No wonder you like inflicting pain I think the issue really is not that Tukez deliberately allowed ambiguity but that this discourse has uncovered a flaw in how the sim config is working.

I know myself that now I embark (hopefully with the help of others) in cleaning up Rawr.Enhance to get the figures stable and in line with the more accurate results from the sim, that I will encounter many such issues. I also know that I didn't deliberately put them there just to annoy people.

During this patch period where both EnhSim & Rawr are going through multiple iterations as we route out all the new bugs we introduced in changing the code, user patience would be appreciated. Its going to take a fair bit of in game testing to confirm that EnhSim has settled down and is once again accurately reflecting in game behaviour. I'd also hope that in the next few weeks I can get Rawr.Enhance honed in on the same ballpark figures.

I know that at present the two differ by a fair old margin. I've yet to determine why. If others can assist working that out it would be very very much appreciated. What I really need is people playing with Rawr & export to EnhSim and checking the differences. Its entirely possible its a few simple fixes to make them agree, it may be its only one or two abilities where the dps varies. However since both are capable of giving out lots of info on exact dps contibutions it should be possible to work out why they differ.
#1701SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Ah so you are in dentistry?? No wonder you like inflicting pain I think the issue really is not that Tukez deliberately allowed ambiguity but that this discourse has uncovered a flaw in how the sim config is working.
I would never suggest anything wrong with how Tukez is doing things, I love the sim and appreciate all the work he has done making it available to us. I was just stating that if there is an ambiguity in the design of the sim then we will have another 6 months of people screwing things up and having weird results and then posting massive config files here for people to debug.

Always easier to just work off the assumption that people are stupid and if there is a way to screw things up they will find it and then try to make the Simulator "bullet-proof" against that assumption.

People rarely read directions and if something is working they just keep doing what they did to make it work the first time.

Changing the set bonuses to only be the one selected should avoid one such trap and it seems like it would be easier to have the Sim throw an error code to the little screen and to the run itself if someone was to have a 4 piece bonus selected without the 2 piece bonus also being selected then to try and avoid people using the same bonus multiple times.
#1702SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Tukez would it be possible to visually indicate in EnhSimGUI when data has changed after being loaded. I was thinking of the usual asterix on the title bar to indicate that the current data set visible had not been saved.

Similarly could we have a bit of feedback when the sim has imported the config data, a warning box perhaps (made optional for those that don't want it) or a beep, or something to say yup I've finished importing. When making really minor changes to test stuff and importing it can be tricky to know if you did actually click import as there is currently no feedback that it did anything unless you notice what changed.
#1703SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Nevets_69
I'm getting an unhandled exception error whenever I try to calculate EP values with a flask selected.

The error pops up right after the baseline DPS is calculated, and at some point during the AP calculation. The error gives what I assume is a line number, but it varies pretty wildly. Really sorry I can't give anything more helpful, my computer keeps asking if I want to debug instead of just giving me the error report, and I can't seem fix that.

Everything works fine if I choose no flask, so I've been doing that in the meantime. Is anyone else getting this error? I didn't submit a bug report on the enhsim page because I have no error report. Hope someone else can help.

Here is my config file:
simulation_time                 500
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         250
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    4
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         34.19
oh_crit                         34.19
mh_hit                          12.11
oh_hit                          12.11
mh_expertise_rating             138
oh_expertise_rating             138
ap                              3777
melee_haste                     3.69
armor_penetration               5.52
str                             133
agi                             822
int                             449
spi                             156
spellpower                      1133
spell_crit                      28.30
spell_hit                       15.13
spell_haste                     2.84
max_mana                        10851
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   3/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
And here is the output, such as it is:
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 2.27364% (59.6421 hit rating).
Mh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 3.83441 expertise (31.4325 expertise rating).
Oh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 3.83441 expertise (31.4325 expertise rating).

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Nothing else gets printed after that. Note, I set the run time low deliberately since I wasn't getting anything useful anyway.

Edit: Version: EnhSim1.6.8 - woops, meant to include this with my original post.

Last edited by Nevets_69 : 04/14/09 at 1:45 PM. Reason: Added version number
#1704SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
The one thing you could do that would be helpful is tell us which version it was.

Tukez - suggestion the first line of the output file should output the version number to aid debugging.
#1705SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3underscore
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
It just took me 30 seconds to prove to myself that you need to include both set bonuses and 20 seconds was just getting the GUI open on my desktop at work.

With both bonuses selected - 6226.74dps
with just Naxx Melee 4 selected - 6201.84dps

If you are going to state something like that then at least confirm that it works the way you say it does. Even if it says it works that way in the config file, take the time to at least do a minimal confirmation.

Hozzer the issue is a bug with the Simulator. For whatever reason if you input a 10% uptime for Unleashed Rage it drops your dps incredibly. If you use the default 99.7% or even just have it unselected and have the talents in place in your talent panel it works fine. It's definitely a bug though since unclicking the option and not having the talents still had my dps at 5753 whereas selecting for a 10% uptime took it to 2896.
Had it occurred to you that I had already done that test during my own usage? I didn't consider it to be a bug since the config tells you not do do it, even if it doesn't tell you why not to do it. I don't understand how what I said was a problem, considering the very first sentence I wrote fixed his problem, and the other two items I wrote were merely additions I noticed while comparing his config to my own.
#1706SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Tukez in the output.txt file there is the first section that gives dps breakdowns of everything used - apart from Searing/Magma totem. Is this just an oversight? Could you add it please? It would help me enormously in tracking down differences in Rawr.Enhance vs Enhsim figures.
#1707SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Celadina
Hiya, first time poster here, but long time reader. I've just downloaded the newest version of Enhsim, v1.6.8, to play around with the new glyphs. I seem to be getting low dps numbers. My white, WF, and SS dps are all very low, aswell as my overall. I've looked over my settings a million times and I just can't seem to pin point what I am overlooking. I know its gunna be something stupid and I'm going to facepalm. Thanks a ton for the second set of eyes =)

The config:
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              LL

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         32.42
oh_crit                         32.42
mh_hit                          10.55
oh_hit                          10.55
mh_expertise_rating             144.00
oh_expertise_rating             144.00
ap                              3939
melee_haste                     3.81
armor_penetration               5.52
str                             129
agi                             965
int                             468
spi                             153
spellpower                      1181
spell_crit                      22.93
spell_hit                       13.19
spell_haste                     2.93
max_mana                        11136
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Output file:
MH:
miss                2316635        9.44%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            5874698        23.94%
hit                 4479382        18.26%
crit                11864581       48.36%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.08%
procs/swings        13.86%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 3861948        48.71%
crit                4066986        51.29%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1987796        48.77%
crit                2088050        51.23%

OH:
miss                2406456        9.44%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            6109336        23.96%
hit                 4652977        18.24%
crit                12334376       48.36%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 17974972       56.02%
crit                14112641       43.98%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1987431        48.76%
crit                2088415        51.24%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3118005        56.01%
crit                2448521        43.99%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2392704        48.68%
crit                2522374        51.32%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2884308        55.99%
crit                2267020        44.01%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4497784        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 46.95

flurry uptime                  89.75%
unleashed rage uptime          100.00%
elemental devastation uptime   80.48%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.42%
oh enchant uptime              36.73%
trinket1 uptime                0.00%
trinket2 uptime                32.44%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 17.63     12.31%
replenishment       33.25     23.21%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.80      6.14%
shamanistic rage    83.59     58.34%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               9.24      0.29%     83.40
windfury            3.65      0.11%     6.61
flametongue         567.45    17.58%    53.48
stormstrike         1.74      0.05%     6.79      37.43     19.04%
lava lash           223.00    6.91%     8.19      16.24     8.27%
magma totem         542.94    16.82%    2.96      55.01     27.99%
earth shock         667.63    20.69%    9.28      36.93     18.79%
lightning bolt      908.97    28.16%    8.59      50.92     25.91%
lightning shield    302.94    9.39%     0.83      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 3227.56
MPS                 196.54
MP2min              23584.29
MRPS                206.52
Out of mana time    0.13%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 31.75s
simulation speed: 1133858x
#1708SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Bellante
I'm also seeing some odd results with 1.6.8, with a dps that lands about 2500. I tried migrating my 1.5.9 config to the new sim, and input dummy haste values just to have something to fiddle with. Fixed bloodlust casters to 1, fixed the buffs to percentage based armor debuffs and what have you. My config is here, can't see if there's anything that's screwed up. The dps number looks ridiculous, but I have no idea if it's a bug with the sim or a bug with me. Never had problems getting enhsim running before, so any input would be appreciated.

Edit: Doh, had overseen the 5/3 unleashed rage. That took care of the problem.

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         100
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         33.33
oh_crit                         33.33
mh_hit                          11.22
oh_hit                          11.22
mh_expertise_rating             145.00
oh_expertise_rating             145.00
ap                              3805
melee_haste                     5.0
armor_penetration               4.42
str                             135
agi                             892
int                             461
spi                             155
spellpower                      1141
spell_crit                      24.67
spell_hit                       14.03
spell_haste                     5.0
max_mana                        11031
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        loathebs_shadow
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
................................................................................

MH:
miss                232714         9.78%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            571068         24.00%
hit                 444578         18.68%
crit                1131198        47.54%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.26%
procs/swings        13.99%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 384759         49.44%
crit                393453         50.56%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 199658         49.60%
crit                202865         50.40%

OH:
miss                242761         9.80%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            594512         24.00%
hit                 464531         18.75%
crit                1175286        47.45%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1851109        59.34%
crit                1268393        40.66%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 199805         49.64%
crit                202718         50.36%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 313081         59.22%
crit                215609         40.78%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 239334         49.59%
crit                243316         50.41%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 295626         59.13%
crit                204334         40.87%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 436188         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               97868          6.48%
glancing            362472         24.01%
hit                 875662         58.00%
crit                173716         11.51%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 45.61

flurry uptime                  89.27%
unleashed rage uptime          99.99%
elemental devastation uptime   76.03%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.09%
oh enchant uptime              37.08%
trinket1 uptime                16.67%
trinket2 uptime                20.58%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               466.24    18.65%    80.94
windfury            256.81    10.27%    6.49
flametongue         281.08    11.24%    51.99
stormstrike         89.65     3.59%     6.71      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           53.62     2.14%     8.04      22.16     11.30%
magma totem         376.40    15.06%    2.86      53.22     27.13%
earth shock         355.94    14.24%    8.81      56.94     29.03%
lightning bolt      400.22    16.01%    8.33      61.05     31.13%
lightning shield    131.12    5.25%     0.81      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       88.76     3.55%     0.33      2.75      1.40%

DPS                 2499.83
MPS                 196.12
MP2min              23534.70
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 1.33s
simulation speed: 2710843x

Last edited by Bellante : 04/15/09 at 6:18 AM.
#1709SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3hozzer
This is the only thing I can spot in your config that looks wrong.
unleashed_rage                  5/3
#1710SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Sansa
I'm having the same issue. Used the sim without a problem before this, just upgraded to 1.6.8 from 1.5.9, made sure the right executable was being used. enhSim errors out when i use flask of endless rage, when i take that out it works but sims me doing around ~2900 dps when it should be more like 5800. I neeeed the sim to work so I can figure out what to replace my expertise gems with (AP? Agi? Haste? Crit?)!!

EDITED TO ADD: I deleted all my folders of EnhSim and reinstalled. Now after p utting all my stats back in, I get an unhandled exception error.

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ComponentModel.Win32Exception: The system cannot find the file specified
at System.Diagnostics.Process.StartWithShellExecuteEx(ProcessStartInfo startInfo)
at System.Diagnostics.Process.Start()
at System.Diagnostics.Process.Start(ProcessStartInfo startInfo)
at System.Diagnostics.Process.Start(String fileName, String arguments)
at enhsimgui.MainForm.button1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
enhsimgui
Assembly Version: 1.0.3390.25896
Win32 Version:
CodeBase: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Seajewel/My%20Documents/Downloads/EnhSim1.6.8%20(1)/enhsimgui.exe
----------------------------------------
msvcm90
Assembly Version: 9.0.30729.1
Win32 Version: 9.00.30729.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/WinSxS/x86_Microsoft.VC90.CRT_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.1_x-ww_6f74963e/msvcm90.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

Last edited by Sansa : 04/15/09 at 4:35 AM.
#1711SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nubittos
I had the whitehit dmg issue too. (was showing about 2500 dps)
I simply loaded the new config file and retyped the values and it worked again.
#1712SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
This should be:
armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
#1713SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Celadina
Thank you pitbuller. That did the trick =) Don't know how it got that way, I dont touch those values. *shrug* Now, onto glyph testing! ^_^
#1714SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3AeroByte
After upgrading to the new version i god very odd DPS as well.. The armor defuff values are changed to percentages.

What is weird is that the LOWER i set my AP the more dmg i get. 4500 AP = 1100 DPS, 1300 AP = 1900 DPS.. (both much lower than what i do on a bossfight (4-5k).

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1500
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          143.6
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         26.56
oh_crit                         26.56
mh_hit                          11.31
oh_hit                          11.31
mh_expertise_rating             138
oh_expertise_rating             138
ap                              4168
melee_haste                     7.86
armor_penetration               2.01
str                             339
agi                             933
int                             628
spi                             204
spellpower                      1657
spell_crit                      20.88
spell_hit                       14.31
spell_haste                     14.31
max_mana                        13500
mp5                             251

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      -

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        bandits_insignia
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    water_mastery

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#1715SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kalmorion
I think your problem, Aerobyte, is that you are simulating mana and do not have any mana refreshing buffs active like replenishment, mana spring totem etc. So the Sim calculates a large percentage where you are OOM. Also you haven't activated many buffs.
#1716SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3AeroByte
Originally Posted by Kalmorion View Post
I think your problem, Aerobyte, is that you are simulating mana and do not have any mana refreshing buffs active like replenishment, mana spring totem etc. So the Sim calculates a large percentage where you are OOM. Also you haven't activated many buffs.
The calculated OOM time is 0%, so it can't be the problem. Just tested the config i posted i 1.5.9.1 and it calculated 4200 DPS.

Also tried to calculated my EP in the new version. It went all nuts. The EP ranged from -500 to +2000 for some of the stats.
#1717SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kalmorion
Also you have

unleashed_rage                  5/3
in your Config.

Try changing it to 5/5 or 3/3. I still run with 5/5 and get proper results.
#1718SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3AeroByte
Originally Posted by Kalmorion View Post
Also you have

unleashed_rage                  5/3
in your Config.

Try changing it to 5/5 or 3/3. I still run with 5/5 and get proper results.
The Unleashed Rage did most of the trick. Still a 500 DPS difference compared to the old version though.
#1719SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Kalmorion View Post
Also you have

unleashed_rage                  5/3
in your Config.

Try changing it to 5/5 or 3/3. I still run with 5/5 and get proper results.
You should use 3/3. 5/5 will give more bonus.
#1720SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cochice
So I haven't simmed for EP in a bit and I just did last night on account of the patch, and I got values over 2.0 for both haste and crit. Anyone else having this happen? I may have messed something up in my new config, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.

My other values all seem relatively normal, other people getting this?
simulation_time                 15000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    6
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              LS
rotation_priority7              MT

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         33.22
oh_crit                         33.22
mh_hit                          10.67
oh_hit                          10.67
mh_expertise_rating             146
oh_expertise_rating             146
ap                              3953
melee_haste                     2.58
armor_penetration               7.79
str                             137
agi                             963
int                             504
spi                             161
spellpower                      1185
spell_crit                      23.97
spell_hit                       13.34
spell_haste                     1.97
max_mana                        117000
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   1/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.48364% (38.9189 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5719.85
ap                        1.00      0.54      5827.09        107.24
crit rating               2.05      1.10      5752.75        32.90
hit rating                1.79      0.96      5748.69        28.85
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5719.85
haste rating              2.57      1.38      5761.24        41.40
armor penetration rating  1.78      0.96      5748.51        28.66
spellpower                1.13      0.61      5810.80        90.95
mh dps                    5.58      2.99      5742.27        22.42
oh dps                    2.55      1.37      5730.10        10.25
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.79      
intelligence*             1.51      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5719.85
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5719.85
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5719.85

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=2.05, HitRating=1.79, HasteRating=2.57, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.78, SpellDamage=1.13, MainHandDps=5.58, OffHandDps=2.55, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.79, Intellect=1.51, Spirit=0.00, Mana=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=2.57&dps=5.58&mp5=0.00&mcr=2.05&odps=2.55&spd=1.13&Agi=1.79&mhit=1.79&Int=1.51&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.78&Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 150000.00h
elapsed real time: 222.41s
simulation speed: 2427992x
#1721SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rounced
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
So I haven't simmed for EP in a bit and I just did last night on account of the patch, and I got values over 2.0 for both haste and crit. Anyone else having this happen? I may have messed something up in my new config, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.

My other values all seem relatively normal, other people getting this?
Looks fine to me, although you did forget to turn on the Feral Spirits in the priority list which would decrease the value of crit since they don't get any crit rating from us.
#1722SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lucentia
I was noticing on my config when i imported it from RAWR that it would only usually attribute the naxx_melee_4 set bonus, not the naxx_melee_2 bonus... I would assume you need both selected for accurate results right?

Just tossing that up there because i noticed your config says the same thing Cochice.

I could be mistaken and just be messing up my config by putting both in there though, i don't know heh, but when i simmed it out my agi, hit, haste, and crit are all almost identical (between 1.64 and 1.69) with ArPen at about 1.32. was interesting to see them so closely balanced.

I did my sim kind of haphazardly, just took my stats, and then pulled out expertise gems until i was back down to the cap, then simmed with the empty sockets to see what should go in them, ended up using AP gems.
#1723SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Cochice
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Looks fine to me, although you did forget to turn on the Feral Spirits in the priority list which would decrease the value of crit since they don't get any crit rating from us.
Oh good call, I forgot they were active in this version.

[e] Just playing around with wolves, and they're consistently resulting in a ~20 dps loss. No time to wait for EP atm, since I'm already late for class.

Last edited by Cochice : 04/15/09 at 12:19 PM.
#1724SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quaunaut
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
Oh good call, I forgot they were active in this version.

[e] Just playing around with wolves, and they're consistently resulting in a ~20 dps loss. No time to wait for EP atm, since I'm already late for class.
Are you simulating mana? Even with them as cheap as they are, it could be that.
#1725SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Cochice
Originally Posted by Quaunaut View Post
Are you simulating mana? Even with them as cheap as they are, it could be that.
No I'm not simming mana, my config is a few posts up.

Edit: I'm retarded. FS != Feral Spirts huuur

Last edited by Cochice : 04/15/09 at 12:37 PM.
#1726SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Eastman
Sorry to say but I've got same "unhandled exception error" as Sansa has. Nothing has been changed, unpacked 1.6.8 version to clean folder and now it doesn't work.

Edition: Rounced's keen eye and sleek moves solved my trouble. Sincerely grateful.

Last edited by Eastman : 04/15/09 at 1:33 PM.
#1727SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sansa
I've deleted old versions of EnhSim, reinstalled enhsim, reinstalled the windows .net framework and the c++ package. Still getting the unhandled exception error.. =/
#1728SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Are you using the GUI and if so have you directed it to the enhsim.exe in your new 1.6.8 folder?

Just tested it by setting the path to my old folder and then closing the GUI and then deleting the old folder. When I restarted the GUI the path was still set to my old folder and when I clicked simulate I got the same error you are all talking about.

Just click the little box in the lower right corner and make sure it is pointing to the exe file in your new folder.
#1729SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hatar
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
So I haven't simmed for EP in a bit and I just did last night on account of the patch, and I got values over 2.0 for both haste and crit. Anyone else having this happen? I may have messed something up in my new config, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.

My other values all seem relatively normal, other people getting this?
mh_expertise_rating             146
oh_expertise_rating             146
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.48364% (38.9189 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.
Isn't the Expertise cap 214? Levva has this value listed in his signature and that is what shows in the ThinkTank.
#1730SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
214 is the 'hard cap' but if you have 3/3 UR then your 'gear cap' is lower. His sim results only state that he's going over the cap because of the EP step range.
#1731SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Hatar
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
214 is the 'hard cap' but if you have 3/3 UR then your 'gear cap' is lower. His sim results only state that he's going over the cap because of the EP step range.
Thank you. Assuming 1 Exp = 8.1975, then the gear cap would be 214-(9*8.1975)=140 correct? Odd that UR doesn't show in our stats since it isn't a proc.
#1732SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Horac
Originally Posted by Hatar View Post
Thank you. Assuming 1 Exp = 8.1975, then the gear cap would be 214-(9*8.1975)=140 correct? Odd that UR doesn't show in our stats since it isn't a proc.
It doesn't show as rating because the talent does not grant rating.

I haven't regemmed yet so my expertise is currently above the dodge cap in the numbers below.
30 expertise showing on Character sheet
Mouse over shows a tool tip stating I have 180 rating, 7.5% reduced chance of dodge and parry, and 30 (21) expertise.
I haven't changed any gear since before the patch so I know that my old expertise value was 21. So the 30 (21) number in the tooltip shows the total expertise and the (gear based expertise).

Edited for clarity.
#1733SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Celadina
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
No I'm not simming mana, my config is a few posts up.

Edit: I'm retarded. FS != Feral Spirts huuur
In the log it says that SW is the rotation option for Feral Spirit(Spirit Wolves) FS is Frost Shock.
#1734SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Isn't FS Flame Shock?

Oh and it's FROSH SHOCK!!!
#1735SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Horac
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Isn't FS Flame Shock?

Oh and it's FROSH SHOCK!!!

Been a while since I last saw that Vid, still makes me laugh. (sorry off topic).

To many skills with S and F as the possible abbreviation. I think the sim considers FS as Flame Shock.
#1736SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cochice
Yes yes yes, it's Flame Shock. I haven't simmed with it in my priority list in...a long time, and I was thinking Feral Spirits. Hence the "I'm retarded"
#1737SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Celadina
*edit* Horac said exactly what I was going to say, just faster. =(
#1738SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haalun
I think haste being over 2.0 is a real effect. I believe it is the best gemmable stat once you are hit and expertise capped, until you stack enough to plateau again.
#1739SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Azloran
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5882.99
ap                        1.00      0.56      5995.80        112.80
crit rating               2.16      1.22      5919.58        36.59
hit rating                1.54      0.87      5909.00        26.01
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5882.99
haste rating              2.02      1.14      5917.25        34.25
armor penetration rating  1.40      0.79      5906.76        23.77
spellpower                1.10      0.62      5975.84        92.84
mh dps                    5.93      3.34      5908.07        25.08
oh dps                    2.98      1.68      5895.61        12.62
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.83      
intelligence*             1.50      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5882.99
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5882.99
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5882.99
I wonder why haste is so low. I manually took out 150AP from my new gems (since I needed to raid and had no time to sim), and apparently I need to replace my AP gems with crit gems.
#1740SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Haste over 2.0 EP seems to depend on your gear. I am over exp/hit cap and my EP value for haste is under 2.0 (1.8x I think). However I am getting higher than 2.00 for crit. (Simming with all gems being AP vs all gems being crit nets me more DPS via all AP though)
#1741SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kaaji1359
So I have 3 points to distribute and I can't decide between maxing out ancestral knowledge or 3 in improved shields. I've tried simming it, but it's difficult to sim the 6% loss in int because I'm not sure how much AP, crit, spellpower, etc. that I'd lose. Also, is it better to use WF Glyph or LS Glyph, depending on if I take 3 in improved shields or 3 more in ancestral knowledge?

Thank you for the help.

[edit] I forgot to mention that EnhSim just stops every time I calculate the EP Values. It will get to 11/14 (after the MH and OH EP values are calculated) and then EnhSim will just stop. Anyone know why?
#1742SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sansa
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Are you using the GUI and if so have you directed it to the enhsim.exe in your new 1.6.8 folder?

Just tested it by setting the path to my old folder and then closing the GUI and then deleting the old folder. When I restarted the GUI the path was still set to my old folder and when I clicked simulate I got the same error you are all talking about.

Just click the little box in the lower right corner and make sure it is pointing to the exe file in your new folder.
Thanks, you were completely right. It was because I deleted the old folders, reinstalled 1.6.8 sim and the executable was for a folder that no longer existed.
#1743SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haalun
Originally Posted by Kaaji1359 View Post
So I have 3 points to distribute and I can't decide between maxing out ancestral knowledge or 3 in improved shields. I've tried simming it, but it's difficult to sim the 6% loss in int because I'm not sure how much AP, crit, spellpower, etc. that I'd lose. Also, is it better to use WF Glyph or LS Glyph, depending on if I take 3 in improved shields or 3 more in ancestral knowledge?

Thank you for the help.

[edit] I forgot to mention that EnhSim just stops every time I calculate the EP Values. It will get to 11/14 (after the MH and OH EP values are calculated) and then EnhSim will just stop. Anyone know why?
I don't know the details of your current spec free points, but have you considered putting them in Reverberation rather than Ancestral Knowledge? The highest DPS spec in my sim testing so far is 20/51/0 with 3 in Call of Flame and 4 in Reverberation. That leaves 1/3 Lightning Shields and 2/5 Ancestral Knowledge if you take the raid buff talents.

To answer you original question, though, to sim more points Ancestral Knowledge, you may want to consider using chardev.org to replicate your gear and spec. It will calculate the AP, spell crit, and spellpower effects for you. Then you can copy the computed stats into EnhSim.
#1744SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
fruust
can i get some help please, i'm really weirded out on why spellpower is so high (2.6) in my results?

edit: my dps is seriously low as well. i'm usually doing around 6k.
edit2: did some more tests and white dmg came out as 11% of my dmg and wf as 4% in a combatlog test.

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2994.50
ap                        1.00      0.24      3009.93        15.43
crit rating               2.02      0.49      3016.93        22.43
hit rating                1.65      0.40      3006.42        11.92
expertise rating          -1.91     -0.46     2979.41        -15.10
haste rating              1.61      0.39      3007.35        12.85
armor penetration rating  0.17      0.04      2995.12        0.62
spellpower                2.60      0.63      3012.03        17.53
mh dps                    0.14      0.03      2994.85        0.35
oh dps                    1.35      0.32      2997.75        3.24
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.30      
intelligence              1.89      
spirit                    0.01      0.00      2994.72        0.22
mana                      0.01      0.00      2994.88        0.38
mp5                       0.19      0.05      2995.41        0.91
my config. i set expertise to -4 as it was over the cap and i wanted some comparative numbers out of it.

simulation_time                 100000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         6
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         300
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    -4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              SW
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         33.07
oh_crit                         33.07
mh_hit                          11.31
oh_hit                          11.31
mh_expertise_rating             146.00
oh_expertise_rating             146.00
ap                              3793
melee_haste                     7.22
armor_penetration               5.52
str                             131
agi                             858
int                             533
spi                             154
spellpower                      1137
spell_crit                      25.26
spell_hit                       14.14
spell_haste                     7.22
max_mana                        12111
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  hyperspeed_accelerators
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                2/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            1/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
the only thing i could think of as wrong would be the SW in my rotation, which i thought was the spirit wolves.
thanks in beforehand.

Last edited by fruust : 04/15/09 at 6:49 PM.
#1745SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haalun
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Haste over 2.0 EP seems to depend on your gear. I am over exp/hit cap and my EP value for haste is under 2.0 (1.8x I think). However I am getting higher than 2.00 for crit. (Simming with all gems being AP vs all gems being crit nets me more DPS via all AP though)
I'm sure it does depend on your gear, but the EP values can mislead you at times. I originally simmed for EP with just enough gems to hit and expertise cap, and it showed haste as the best stat. Then I compared with slotting all AP gems and all haste gems in the free gem sockets, and haste came out higher DPS, confirming the original EP results. However, the EP once I have all those haste gems slotted is below 2.0 again. So if you want to use EP to decide how to gem, you should probably sim with the discretionary gem sockets empt, and also compare DPS of the actual gemming results manually.
#1746SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3stassart
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Expertise is broken for EP calculations.

Set it to 0 with an EP value of 4 and it still reported that expertise was past the cap and skipped the test. The issue is with the expertise on Unleashed Rage.
I am having the same problem with EnhSim reporting that I am over the expertise cap when I am at 6.25% (including Unleashed Rage, and I am not an Orc).
#1747SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Yeah, everything is way off because Melee attacks are not working at all right now. Check out your combatlog output and see the 8-9 dps from white, 3-4 dps from windfury etc.

e. See the Wikidot for information about it.
#1748SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kalmorion
The default range for expertise EP calculation is 4, so the SIM adds 4 (not rating) to your current Expertise. With this 4 more Expertise you are over the cap, which produces the error. If you want ExpertiseEP calculated then you have to enter a negative value at the EP range part of your config.
#1749SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Klejj
Weird melee damage is probably because of this:
armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 1260/1260

should be 20/20 and 5/5
#1750SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fruust
Originally Posted by Klejj View Post
Weird melee damage is probably because of this:
armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 1260/1260

should be 20/20 and 5/5
thanks, i just went with the standard config and pasted my numbers so guess the old config files need to be updated.
i other words it fixed the problem.
#1751SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3csarichmond
Looking for help.

Just loaded Enhsim for first time, and worked through inputing values throught the EnhsimGui

When I run the simulator, however, it only give me dps for the white attacks.

Despite putting in my rotation (ticked boxes for the one's I want, and moved them to run from the top down), I am getting no yellow attacks on the Sim.

What am I doing wrong?

tz.
#1752SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by csarichmond View Post
Looking for help.

Just loaded Enhsim for first time, and worked through inputing values throught the EnhsimGui

When I run the simulator, however, it only give me dps for the white attacks.

Despite putting in my rotation (ticked boxes for the one's I want, and moved them to run from the top down), I am getting no yellow attacks on the Sim.

What am I doing wrong?

tz.
You aren't telling us which version you are using, and you haven't posted your config file or your results. THAT is what you are doing wrong. We're good but we're not psychic, ie:we can't read your mind remotely and work out what you have done.
#1753SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
Originally Posted by csarichmond View Post
Looking for help.

Just loaded Enhsim for first time, and worked through inputing values throught the EnhsimGui

When I run the simulator, however, it only give me dps for the white attacks.

Despite putting in my rotation (ticked boxes for the one's I want, and moved them to run from the top down), I am getting no yellow attacks on the Sim.

What am I doing wrong?

tz.
As Levva said, post your config, but a good guess is that you have not set a dps rotation priority. It's fairly simple, you order the abilities in the rotation priority frame and tick them off, then run a simulation. Then you fiddle with the rotation until you've maxed your dps, and then you try to do that in the game. One option is for example:

SW
MW5_LB
ES_SS
SS
ES
MT
LS
LL

which to me gives max dps. Rinse and repeat.
#1754SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Photek
I'm getting some weird values, simmed my ep values to see what to get on those expertise gems I dont need anymore and haste is getting the highest value, then I simmed with haste, crit and ap gems to test the dps. AP gems is winning on the dps on all the sims I did, I dont understand.


This are the EP values I'm getting w/o the expertise gems I dont need anymore, as you can see haste is getting the hightest ep value.

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6126.04
ap                        1.00      0.60      6246.07        120.04
crit rating               1.85      1.11      6159.42        33.38
hit rating                1.64      0.98      6155.53        29.49
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6126.04
haste rating              1.96      1.18      6161.34        35.30
armor penetration rating  1.44      0.86      6151.91        25.87
spellpower                0.98      0.59      6214.43        88.39
mh dps                    5.34      3.20      6150.07        24.03
oh dps                    2.44      1.46      6137.00        10.96
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.73      
intelligence              1.60      
spirit                    -0.02     -0.01     6124.60        -1.43
mana                      0.01      0.00      6126.98        0.95
mp5                       -0.11     -0.07     6124.71        -1.32

And this are the config files I'm using for AP, CRIT and HASTE gems with it's corresponding simmed dps.

AP (6223 dps):
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            mega_mammoth_meal

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.85
oh_crit                         30.85
mh_hit                          17.43
oh_hit                          17.43
mh_expertise_rating             146
oh_expertise_rating             146
ap                              3984
melee_haste                     4
armor_penetration               4
str                             225
agi                             847
int                             553
spi                             155
spellpower                      1195
spell_crit                      23.28
spell_hit                       14.29
spell_haste                     4.6
max_mana                        12411
mp5                             101

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

CRIT (6213 dps):
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            mega_mammoth_meal

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         32.59
oh_crit                         32.59
mh_hit                          17.43
oh_hit                          17.43
mh_expertise_rating             146
oh_expertise_rating             146
ap                              3824
melee_haste                     4
armor_penetration               4
str                             225
agi                             847
int                             553
spi                             155
spellpower                      1147
spell_crit                      25.02
spell_hit                       14.29
spell_haste                     4.6
max_mana                        12411
mp5                             101

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    lightning_shield
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

HASTE (6204 dps):
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            mega_mammoth_meal

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.85
oh_crit                         30.85
mh_hit                          17.43
oh_hit                          17.43
mh_expertise_rating             146
oh_expertise_rating             146
ap                              3824
melee_haste                     7
armor_penetration               4
str                             225
agi                             847
int                             553
spi                             155
spellpower                      1147
spell_crit                      23.28
spell_hit                       14.29
spell_haste                     7.04
max_mana                        12411
mp5                             101

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    feral_spirit
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

I'm sure there's something wrong there but I dont realize what is it, anyone realize what is it?


PS: sorry for my poor english, not my main language ;p
#1755SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Protico
Try running the Sim for more than 1000 hours of combat time. The longer you run the simulation the less effect RNG will have on the outcome. 6000-12000 hours is pretty standard I think.
#1756SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3lifewater
Calculate EP Values

Calculating EP Values takes excessively long for me, sometimes up to 30 minutes. Is this normal? Also is there a way to turn down the amount of hours simulated when calculating EP values? My apologies if this has been covered.
#1757SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
EP number crunching is very dependent on your computer system so if you're running on an older computer there's not much you can do about it. Make sure you have the multithreading option turned on though, single threaded simulation is extremely slow.
#1758SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3MatsT
Photek: You're not doing anything wrong, just interpreting the results wrong. If AP=1 and Haste Rating=1.96, it means one gem with AP gives 32 EP and one gem with haste gives 31.36 EP. AP gems should yield a higher dps.
#1759SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zaurok
Originally Posted by MatsT View Post
Photek: You're not doing anything wrong, just interpreting the results wrong. If AP=1 and Haste Rating=1.96, it means one gem with AP gives 32 EP and one gem with haste gives 31.36 EP. AP gems should yield a higher dps.
What he said. remember that you get 2 AP for any 1 stat from gems. So the value of AP being one ends up being 2. If any stat value isn't higher than 2, AP will be your #1 gem choice.
#1760SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Photek
Oookay, I get it, that clarify all, thank you very much both of you
#1761SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lucentia
in the config file, does Naxx_Melee_4 set bonus include both the +10% lightning shield and +5% flurry haste, or just the haste? i keep seeing people's config files up here with just the naxx_melee_4 listed and not naxx_melee_2
#1762SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nefastilock
Stupid question, but the result for searching "elemental" got me lost.
Is it possible to simulate dps of a pure elemental build?
If so, anything I should know?
#1763SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
EnhSim as in Enhancement Shaman simulator. You might be able to set the rotation for elemental, but I can't say what results you will get, as it's not meant to simulate Ele. You'd be better getting Rawr and using it for elementakl since they have a full Ele model.
#1764SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Originally Posted by Nefastilock View Post
Stupid question, but the result for searching "elemental" got me lost.
Is it possible to simulate dps of a pure elemental build?
If so, anything I should know?
All 3 specs have rawr modules. For more tailored results, use enhsim for enhancement, shaman_hep for resto, and I'm not familiar but it looks like this is the elemental resource:

[Elemental] SEIC Spreadsheet - v3
#1765SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Abusive
Hey having a problem when switching glyphs around. Says the program encounters a problem and needs to close. I can run it fine with flametongue, stormstrike, and lightning shield but when attempting to switch lightning shield with another glyph i get the error. Using version 1.6.8 if you need the config i can throw that up here if I figure out how.
#1766SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Are you sure (if you are using the GUI) that it is pointing to the correct .exe?

In order to post the config: save the config from the GUI (this will create a file with a given name)
Open that file and copy the contents
Make a post here and embed the copied text in tags.
#1767SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Abusive
Yeah, I can run the sim fine with the glyphs I've exported over from shocknawe but whenever I try to change things up the problem occurs. Here's the config I'm using when trying to switch glyphs up
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20


mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         32.25
oh_crit                         32.25
mh_hit                          11.10
oh_hit                          11.10
mh_expertise_rating             143.00
oh_expertise_rating             143.00
ap                              3910
melee_haste                     ?
armor_penetration               0.00
str                             129
agi                             775
int                             481
spi                             153
spellpower                      1173
spell_crit                      25.12
spell_hit                       13.88
spell_haste                     8.72
max_mana                        11331
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        meteorite_whetstone

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_bolt

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   3/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#1768SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haalun
Originally Posted by Lucentia View Post
in the config file, does Naxx_Melee_4 set bonus include both the +10% lightning shield and +5% flurry haste, or just the haste? i keep seeing people's config files up here with just the naxx_melee_4 listed and not naxx_melee_2
Yes, naxx_melee_4 includes both bonuses. If you list both naxx_melee_4 and naxx_melee_2, it will apply the lightning shield bonus twice.
#1769SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Mindrila
Edit:
Ah figured it out where I went wrong... oh my ... time for bed ...

Last edited by Mindrila : 04/16/09 at 5:53 PM. Reason: Brainmode = on
#1770SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3syzygylock
Hit + Exp EP still high

I have a question regarding the Hit and Exp EP values with the simulator. I used EnhSim 1.6.8. My hit currently is 420 and my exp is 181 (31). Before I run the simulator, I manually lowered the hit and exp so that they don't go over cap and my hit EP is 2.7 and my Exp EP is 2.49. This is weird because I thought it suppose to get lower as we get closer to the cap.

Thanks,
#1771SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
Are you using a negative EP for either? Expertise should be effectively zero if you're capped. Sounds to me like you're simming the wrong configuration or you're not imputting Hit/Expertise correctly.
#1772SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Luc
Originally Posted by syzygylock View Post
I have a question regarding the Hit and Exp EP values with the simulator. I used EnhSim 1.6.8. My hit currently is 420 and my exp is 181 (31). Before I run the simulator, I manually lowered the hit and exp so that they don't go over cap and my hit EP is 2.7 and my Exp EP is 2.49. This is weird because I thought it suppose to get lower as we get closer to the cap.

Thanks,
You're incorrect there. Hit and Exp hold their high values all the way until the exp cap and the spell hit cap.

That is why it is so important to use gems and enchants (and sometimes even gear swaps) to get your hit and exp as close as possible to those caps. Anything less than the cap and you are ignoring the large gains of an EP=~3 stat over the EP=~2 alternatives. Any more than the cap is a total waste of stat points in the case of Exp and a moderate waste of potential alternative EP=2 stat to a now weak hit EP.
#1773SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Yeah, I can run the sim fine with the glyphs I've exported over from shocknawe but whenever I try to change things up the problem occurs. Here's the config I'm using when trying to switch glyphs up
I can't seem to be able to replicate it. Loaded your config, simulated with it. Changed the last glyph from lightning_bolt to LS. Works fine, changed LS to something else, and it works fine again. I would suggest deleting your EnhSim dir, and 'reinstalling' it.

Also note this:

melee_haste                     ?
I think the SAA that you are using is old. (not sure if Levva fixed that anyway) but if not you will need to enter your melee haste by hand in order to get good results.
#1774SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nubittos
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 3.74093% (98.1319 hit rating).

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6121.44
ap                        1.00      0.57      6235.29        113.85
crit rating               1.97      1.12      6222.42        100.98
hit rating                1.72      0.98      6209.42        87.97
expertise rating          -2.93     -1.67     6066.76        -54.68
haste rating              2.17      1.24      6195.58        74.14
armor penetration rating  1.48      0.84      6172.07        50.63
spellpower                1.04      0.59      6157.13        35.68
mh dps                    5.23      2.97      6143.75        22.31
oh dps                    2.35      1.34      6131.48        10.04
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.78
intelligence*             1.41
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6121.44
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6121.44
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6121.44

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.97, HitRating=1.72, HasteRating=2.17
, ExpertiseRating=-2.93, ArmorPenetration=1.48, SpellDamage=1.04, MainHandDps=5.
23, OffHandDps=2.35, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.78, Intellect=1.41, Spirit=0.00, M
ana=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=2.17&dps=5.23&mp5=0.00&mcr
=1.97&odps=2.35&spd=1.04&Agi=1.78&mhit=1.72&Int=1.41&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.48&
Exp=-2.93

elapsed simulation time: 33000.00h
elapsed real time: 61.36s
simulation speed: 1936177x
simulation_time                 3000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  90
ep_hit_rating                   90
ep_expertise                    -4
ep_haste_rating                 60
ep_armor_penetration_rating     60
ep_spellpower                   60
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.15
oh_crit                         30.15
mh_hit                          11.39
oh_hit                          11.39
mh_expertise_rating             130
oh_expertise_rating             130
ap                              3665
melee_haste                     12.31
armor_penetration               0.00
str                             139
agi                             793
int                             480
spi                             162
spellpower                      1399
spell_crit                      23.01
spell_hit                       14.31
spell_haste                     12.31
max_mana                        11316
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Hey guys. This is my latest result and I would love some comments on the results... This is with 3.0.8 almost perfect gear and I would love to hear if your results are close to this? it is with version 1.6.8 Enhsim by the way.
Thanks all.
#1775SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3syzygylock
Originally Posted by Vesham View Post
Are you using a negative EP for either? Expertise should be effectively zero if you're capped. Sounds to me like you're simming the wrong configuration or you're not imputting Hit/Expertise correctly.
Now I used the exact stats that I have and Exp came out to be 0.0. But hit is still high. I thought that we only need to get hit to 14% or (367) according to the ThinkTank and I have 422. Did I mis-read and understand it differently? Or did the simulator thinks that I need to get to the real 27% for dual wield?

Here is my config:

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         150
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              ST
rotation_priority7              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          runic_mana_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         25.86
oh_crit                         25.86
mh_hit                          12.87
oh_hit                          12.87
mh_expertise_rating             181
oh_expertise_rating             181
ap                              3214
melee_haste                     4.32
armor_penetration               0
str                             133
agi                             803
int                             435
spi                             153
spellpower                      964
spell_crit                      18.11
spell_hit                       15.85
spell_haste                     4.32
max_mana                        10641
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Here's my output:

Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana calculated.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit calculated.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      4335.32
ap                        1.00      0.49      4433.53        98.20
crit rating               1.77      0.87      4361.38        26.06
hit rating                2.73      1.34      4375.50        40.17
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -4335.32
haste rating              1.85      0.91      4362.56        27.23
armor penetration rating  1.66      0.82      4359.84        24.52
spellpower                1.03      0.51      4411.11        75.78
mh dps                    5.20      2.56      4354.49        19.17
oh dps                    3.43      1.68      4347.96        12.63
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.78
intelligence              1.37
spirit                    0.02      0.01      4336.85        1.52
mana                      -0.00     -0.00     4335.30        -0.02
mp5                       0.16      0.08      4336.94        1.62

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.77, HitRating=2.73, HasteRating=1.85
, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.66, SpellDamage=1.03, MainHandDps=5.2
0, OffHandDps=3.43, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.78, Intellect=1.37, Spirit=0.02, Ma
na=-0.00, Mp5=0.16 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.85&dps=5.20&mp5=0.16&mcr
=1.77&odps=3.43&spd=1.03&Agi=1.78&mhit=2.73&Int=1.37&Spi=0.02&map=1.00&arp=1.66&
Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 130000.00h
elapsed real time: 346.36s
simulation speed: 1351179x
#1776SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Pitbuller
Originally Posted by syzygylock View Post
Now I used the exact stats that I have and Exp came out to be 0.0. But hit is still high. I thought that we only need to get hit to 14% or (367) according to the ThinkTank and I have 422. Did I mis-read and understand it differently? Or did the simulator thinks that I need to get to the real 27% for dual wield?
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
14% + 0% < 17%
#1777SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3stassart
Even if I use a negative value for expertise and it does not say that I am over the cap, I still get a negative weight for expertise.

EnhSim 1.6.8.

Configuration:

armor_debuff_major		20.0/20.0		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0.0/5.0		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	0.0/4.0		//%, bloody frenzy, savage combat
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		688/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	99.7/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	0.0/5.0		//%, improved scorch, winter's chill, imp.shadow bolt
spell_damage_debuff		0.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of the elements
spellpower_buff			244/280		//flametongue totem, totem of wrath
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			3.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	0.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath, master poisoner
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			52/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		178/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			60/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			flask_of_endless_rage
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			-
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				fish_feast
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }



###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race                            tauren	//{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          156.6
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         34.31	//%
oh_crit                         34.31
mh_hit                          7.81	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit                          7.81
mh_expertise_rating             135	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating             135
ap                              3701	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
melee_haste                     5.35	//%
armor_penetration               3.00	//%
str                             133
agi                             856
int                             527
spi                             153
spellpower                      1384	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit                      26.48	//%
spell_hit                       9.76 	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
spell_haste                     4.12	//%
max_mana                        11316
mp5                             0	//in combat

mh_imbue	 		windfury
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | flametongue_9 | frostbrand | - }

mh_enchant			berserking
oh_enchant			berserking
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | berserking | - }

mh_weapon			-
oh_weapon			-
//{ axe | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			mirror_of_truth
trinket2			loathebs_shadow
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  abacus_of_violent_odds | badge_of_tenacity |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | fury_of_the_five_flights |
//  grim_toll | loathebs_shadow | mirror_of_truth | 
//  the_skull_of_guldan | meteorite_whetstone | embrace_of_the_spider |
//  dying curse | illustration_of_the_dragon_soul |
//  sundial_of_the_exiled | forge_ember | incisor_fragment |
//  mark_of_the_war_prisoner | sphere_of_red_dragons_blood |
//  tome_of_arcane_phenomena | mark_of_norgannon | fezziks_pocketwatch |
//  thorny_rose_brooch | rune_of_finite_variation | bandits_insignia |
//  darkmoon_card_greatness | pendulum_of_telluric_currents |
//  vestige_of_haldor | twilight_serpent | thunder_capacitor |
//  tears_of_bitter_anguish | - }

totem				totem_of_the_elemental_plane
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | totem_of_splintering |
//  totem_of_ancestral_guidance | totem_of_the_void | skycall_totem | 
//  totem_of_hex | totem_of_dueling | totem_of_the_elemental_plane |
//  deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | hateful_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability |
//  savage_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | deadly_gladiators_totem_of_survival |
//  hateful_gladiators_totem_of_survival | savage_gladiators_totem_of_survival | - }

set_bonus1			naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2			-
set_bonus3			-
//higher set bonuses include lower ones eg. naxx_melee_4 includes naxx_melee_2
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness | desolation_battlegear |
//  skyshatter_harness_2 | skyshatter_harness_4 | skyshatter_regalia_2 |
//  skyshatter_regalia_4 | naxx_melee_2 | naxx_melee_4 | gladiators_earthshaker |
//  naxx_nuker_2 | naxx_nuker_4 | worldbreaker_battlegear_2 | worldbreaker_battlegear_4 | - }

metagem				relentless_earthsiege_diamond
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | 
//  chaotic_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyflare_diamond |
//  ember_skyflare_diamond | relentless_earthsiege_diamond | - }

gloves_enchant			-
//{ hyperspeed_accelerators | hound_mounted_pyro_rocket }
cloak_enchant			-
//{ lightweave_embroidery | swordguard_embroidery }

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			stormstrike
glyph_major2			lightning_shield
glyph_major3			windfury_weapon
//{ lightning_shield | flametongue_weapon | lightning_bolt |
//  windfury_weapon | stormstrike | earth_shock | lava | lava_lash |
//  water_mastery | feral_spirit | - }

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-



#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		2/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		1/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			3/3
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			3/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			5/5
call_of_flame			3/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			0/1
elemental_fury			5/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/3
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/3
shamanism			0/5
Result:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      4774.38
ap                        1.00      0.46      4865.70        91.32
crit rating               2.20      1.00      4804.50        30.12
hit rating                3.93      1.79      4828.20        53.82
expertise rating          -2.92     -1.33     4752.54        -21.84
haste rating              2.00      0.91      4801.76        27.38
armor penetration rating  1.45      0.66      4794.30        19.92
spellpower                1.05      0.48      4846.61        72.23
mh dps                    5.58      2.55      4793.49        19.11
oh dps                    3.06      1.40      4784.85        10.47
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.93      
intelligence              1.63      
spirit                    -0.00     -0.00     4774.33        -0.06
mana                      0.01      0.01      4775.91        1.53
mp5                       0.31      0.14      4777.17        2.79
If the negative sign was removed from expertise I could see it being correct.
#1778SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3syzygylock
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
14% + 0% < 17%
Ah, I see now. Thanks. I read the EnhWiki and it said to not ever go over the cap, so when EnhSimGui gave me the "EP hit goes past cap with spells." or "MH and OH xpertise are over cap...", I thought that I will have to lower the numbers manually to match it.

I basically just use with ShockAndAwe output and ignore the warnings and it seems to give me the right values for hit. Please confirm that this is how it suppose to be.
#1779SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
Check your Buffs section. By what you posted, I noticed you have 0/3.0% on spell hit chance given by misery. That would throw the calculated Hit far below hit cap leading to your high DEP.
#1780SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> 116% Armor Pen only giving 66%!?!?!?!

Okay, here is a farily technical explanation we put together for how armor pen works.

We didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against low armor targets, like it had been in BC. We also didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against high armor targets.

So, we decided on a system where there is a cap on how much armor the Armor Penetration Rating can be applied to. So, the first X armor on the target is reduced by the percentage listed in the Armor Penetration Rating tooltip, and all armor past that X is unaffected. Another way of understanding that is we multiply the percentage in the tooltip times the minimum of the two values: the cap, and the amount of armor on the target after all other modifiers.

Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C. C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):

If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59);

For a level 80 target, C=15232.5. For a level 83, C=16635.

The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.

A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).

These equations should help you be able to test and verify that Armor Penetration Rating is working correctly and as we designed. The tooltip is not actually inaccurate, as it states: “Enemy armor reduced by up to 30.00%.” That "up to" is key.

Please be sure to test without any other effects which modify the armor calculation (Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, Mace Specialization, etc.) as they may involve other systems that add additional complexity to the calculation.
#1781SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Good grief. Why didn't they just modify the rating values to reflect that.
#1782SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jasonf
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Good grief. Why didn't they just modify the rating values to reflect that.
Because of the different variables that affect how much armor its going to reduce.
#1783SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
paladyin
Unusually high dps simmed

EDIT: Thanks wolflord!

Last edited by paladyin : 04/18/09 at 10:25 AM.
#1784SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Wolflord
Melee and Spell haste are entered as percentages, not as ratings. Youve input 246% haste.
#1785SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Found a bug with the Sim. It's not giving the 25% increased damage when the offhand is imbued with Flametongue (either that or it is giving it no matter what the offhand is imbued with).
#1786SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kalioshas
This is what I see when I run EnhSim
Set bonus  not found.
Set bonus  not found.
Set bonus  not found.
Enchant  not found.
Enchant  not found.
melee_haste not found from config.
spell_haste not found from config.
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.09364% (28.6884 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.
config:
#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			10000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				60	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				250	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			0	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		1	//{ 0 | 1 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SW = spirit wolves
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		9
rotation_priority1            SW
rotation_priority2		MW5_LB
rotation_priority3		ES_SS
rotation_priority4		SS
rotation_priority5		ES
rotation_priority6		MT
rotation_priority7		LL
rotation_priority8		LS
rotation_priority9		SR



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			24.00	//%
armor				10645	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major        20.0/20.0		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor        5.0/5.0		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	0.0/4.0		//%, bloody frenzy, savage combat
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		688/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	99.7/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	5.0/5.0		//%, improved scorch, winter's chill, imp.shadow bolt
spell_damage_debuff		13.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of the elements
spellpower_buff			280/280		//flametongue totem, totem of wrath
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			3.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	3.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath, master poisoner
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			52/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		178/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			60/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			flask_of_endless_rage
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			-
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				fish_feast
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }



###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

###############################
## ShockAndAwe EnhSim Export ##
###############################
race                 tauren
mh_speed             2.60
oh_speed             2.50
mh_dps               171.3
oh_dps               156.6
mh_crit              31.76
oh_crit              31.76
mh_hit               11.16
oh_hit               11.16
mh_expertise_rating  159.00
oh_expertise_rating  159.00
ap                   3806
haste                5.39
armor_penetration    2.52
str                  141
agi                  812
int                  462
spi                  161
spellpower           1141
spell_crit           24.07
spell_hit            13.95
max_mana             11046
mp5                  0
mh_imbue             windfury
oh_imbue             flametongue

mh_enchant           berserking
mh_weapon            -
oh_enchant           berserking
oh_weapon            -

trinket1             mark_of_norgannon
trinket2             fury_of_the_five_flights

totem                totem_of_dueling
set_bonus            naxx_melee_4
metagem              chaotic_skyflare_diamond

glyph_major1         stormstrike
glyph_major2         lightning_shield
glyph_major3         flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor2         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor3         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim


#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge       2/5
improved_shields          3/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         1/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            3/3
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      0/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                0/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             3/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             2/5
elemental_focus           0/1
elemental_fury            5/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/2
lava_flows                0/1
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                 0/3
Whats wrong with set bonus/haste/enchants?
#1787SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Njald
Originally Posted by Kalioshas View Post
This is what I see when I run EnhSim
1
Whats wrong with set bonus/haste/enchants?
You probably did what I did, exported from ShockAndAwe or you are using an old config. If you download latest enhsim and look at the config file and compared with what you posted you will note that melee_haste and spell_haste is now different stats in config and cloak and glove enchant are both added to the new config.

Also, setbonus is now divided into setbonus1, setbonus2,setbonus3.

If you are unsure on how to properly configurate the new config you should download that file again and save a backup and go over the config and the backup line for line and see the difference.
#1788SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Triper
Quick bug report:

If you try to sim any of the new glyphs and you don't have ES_SS in your rotation EnhSim will throw an error and close. (At least this is the only way I could get it (the bug) to stop and start.)

This config works:

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         250
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   5
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              MW4_LB
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4/4
melee_haste_buff                20/20
melee_crit_chance_buff          5/5
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/?
spell_haste_buff                5/5
spell_crit_chance_buff          5/5
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5/5
spell_damage_debuff             13/13
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3/3
haste_buff                      3/3
percentage_damage_increase      3/3
crit_chance_debuff              3/3
stat_multiplier                 10/10
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         33.96
oh_crit                         33.96
mh_hit                          10.67
oh_hit                          10.67
mh_expertise_rating             143.00
oh_expertise_rating             143.00
ap                              3987
melee_haste                     8.96
armor_penetration               3.00
str                             131
agi                             852
int                             536
spi                             155
spellpower                      1153
spell_crit                      26.23
spell_hit                       13.34
spell_haste                     8.96
max_mana                        12156
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        -

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
And this one will not:

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         250
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   5
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              MW4_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              MT
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4/4
melee_haste_buff                20/20
melee_crit_chance_buff          5/5
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/?
spell_haste_buff                5/5
spell_crit_chance_buff          5/5
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5/5
spell_damage_debuff             13/13
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3/3
haste_buff                      3/3
percentage_damage_increase      3/3
crit_chance_debuff              3/3
stat_multiplier                 10/10
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         33.96
oh_crit                         33.96
mh_hit                          10.67
oh_hit                          10.67
mh_expertise_rating             143.00
oh_expertise_rating             143.00
ap                              3987
melee_haste                     8.96
armor_penetration               3.00
str                             131
agi                             852
int                             536
spi                             155
spellpower                      1153
spell_crit                      26.23
spell_hit                       13.34
spell_haste                     8.96
max_mana                        12156
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        -

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#1789SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Njald View Post
You probably did what I did, exported from ShockAndAwe or you are using an old config. If you download latest enhsim and look at the config file and compared with what you posted you will note that melee_haste and spell_haste is now different stats in config and cloak and glove enchant are both added to the new config.

Also, setbonus is now divided into setbonus1, setbonus2,setbonus3.

If you are unsure on how to properly configurate the new config you should download that file again and save a backup and go over the config and the backup line for line and see the difference.
If you export from a pre patch 3.1 version of ShockAndAwe then you aren't going to get good results. Current version is v4.22 you need to upgrade if you want to export to EnhSim v1.6.5 or above.
#1790SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Using v1.6.8 I noted I had input melee crit of 28.79% and spell crit of 23.54%, I ran an output with 20k hours and was getting

MH:
miss                3189446        7.82%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            9779619        23.99%
hit                 16043465       39.35%
crit                11761125       28.84%

OH:
miss                3207964        7.87%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            9763460        23.95%
hit                 16050803       39.37%
crit                11751428       28.82%
ie: pretty much spot on what I was expecting to see. However for Windfury and Stormstrike I'm seeing in the same output.txt file...

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.82%
procs/swings        15.72%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 10362004       67.98%
crit                4880616        32.02%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 5285484        68.47%
crit                2433985        31.53%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 5271498        68.29%
crit                2447971        31.71%
ie: a crit rate that's 3%-3.5% higher than white crit rate. I'm struggling to think of anything that causes yellow crit rate to be 3%-3.5% higher than white crit rate. I am missing something or is this a bug?

Just in case the RNG was causing an issue I ran the sim for 200k hours (a bit longer than average) and got...

MH:
miss                31892714       7.82%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            97811302       23.99%
hit                 160409524      39.34%
crit                117629549      28.85%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.83%
procs/swings        15.72%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 103628729      67.98%
crit                48822409       32.02%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 52860278       68.48%
crit                24330976       31.52%

OH:
miss                32088207       7.87%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            97604680       23.94%
hit                 160528093      39.37%
crit                117522109      28.82%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 52729234       68.31%
crit                24462020       31.69%
ie: pretty much identical results. Slightly narrow crit range though 2.75%-3.25%, Can anyone explain why WF & SS crits would average out over such a long time at 2.75-3.25% above entered melee crit rate.

config file was :
simulation_time                 200000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           0/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          156.6
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         28.79
oh_crit                         28.79
mh_hit                          12.11
oh_hit                          12.11
mh_expertise_rating             147
oh_expertise_rating             147
ap                              3844
melee_haste                     7.93
armor_penetration               3.17
str                             131
agi                             804
int                             520
spi                             155
spellpower                      1153
spell_crit                      23.54
spell_hit                       15.13
spell_haste                     6.10
max_mana                        11916
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40256
trinket2                        40684

totem                           40322

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41398

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            1/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Edit: Lava Lash crits were similarly over inflated by 3%
Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 6651807        68.10%
crit                3116463        31.90%
#1791SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Densor
Should Elemental Devastation be upping your crit % on all attacks? If you're only getting slightly above the input crit while specced for ED and using a regular rotation, I'd say something was wrong somewhere. Unless ED is barely making up for the crit depression due to your low spell crit? Is it possible that yellow attacks aren't being affected by the crit depression?
#1792SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Wouldn't the crit inflation be due to the yellow attacks being hit capped while the regular white hits still have a significant miss percentage?
#1793SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Interesting thought. The output was showing ED uptime of 53.23% which I suppose averaged should give 9% melee crit 53.23% of the time ie: 4.79% additional melee crit on average.

If that is the issue something is still a bit screwy. Why is white crits perfectly on input melee crit are they not benefiting from ED? Is it that SS, WF, LL all benefit from ED? If so why is the additional crit lower than expected given the uptime?

I'm trying to understand the model so I can work out why my Rawr.Enhance model differs. If at the same time I provoke investigations into either model to ensure accuracy that can only be good in the long run. I am in no way trying to suggest EnhSim is wrong or Rawr is better (at present it clearly isn't as I'd missed the ED uptime), all I'm trying to do is get the two models to agree or at least understand why they don't.
#1794SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
I think you need to look at the one roll melee table information to find the answer. There is a lot of info in the Rogue forums on it and I don't really have a form grasp on how they work but I do believe that Tukez incorporated all their findings into the Sim.
#1795SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Interesting thought. The output was showing ED uptime of 53.23% which I suppose averaged should give 9% melee crit 53.23% of the time ie: 4.79% additional melee crit on average.

If that is the issue something is still a bit screwy. Why is white crits perfectly on input melee crit are they not benefiting from ED? Is it that SS, WF, LL all benefit from ED? If so why is the additional crit lower than expected given the uptime?

I'm trying to understand the model so I can work out why my Rawr.Enhance model differs. If at the same time I provoke investigations into either model to ensure accuracy that can only be good in the long run. I am in no way trying to suggest EnhSim is wrong or Rawr is better (at present it clearly isn't as I'd missed the ED uptime), all I'm trying to do is get the two models to agree or at least understand why they don't.
I didn't do any calculations, but white attacks get 4.8% crit depression, which would even out the ED bonus. Specials get 1.8% crit depression. Take those into account and I think the results are ok.

It was kind of concluded, that 4.8% crit depression for white attacks is valid, but I didn't see any final conclusion for yellow attacks.
#1796SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by tukez View Post
I didn't do any calculations, but white attacks get 4.8% crit depression, which would even out the ED bonus. Specials get 1.8% crit depression. Take those into account and I think the results are ok.

It was kind of concluded, that 4.8% crit depression for white attacks is valid, but I didn't see any final conclusion for yellow attacks.
Many thanks that fixed it. I'd never heard of the crit depression before to be honest. I've added that to the Rawr.Enhance model now though. It's weird just how many little fiddly bits go into modelling dps. However I'm pleased that as I learn more and add more and more tweaks the figures are coming closer and closer together.


Edit : another observation I noted I am getting the following output
MH:
miss                3177896        7.85%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            9717973        24.01%
hit                 15909825       39.31%
crit                11662521       28.82%

OH:
miss                3183060        7.87%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            9690766        23.95%
hit                 15933421       39.37%
crit                11660968       28.82%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               829.92    26.15%    67.45

elapsed simulation time: 20000.00h
ie: to all intents and purposes MH & OH are doing same dps - Duel wielding Angry Dreads. Shouldn't the off-hand suffer a 50% damage penalty? Or is that not what the output.txt file is showing at this stage?

Also if I may, is it possible to determine the white dps figure from the total MH+OH damage? Adding up what I see I get 74,575,474 damage however I can't work out if knowing that plus knowing sim was run for 20,000 hours with 6 min combat time if its possible to arrive at the white dps figure. Again I'm looking to sanity check my figures from Rawr which are showing less white dps ie: I'm getting 746.68 white dps vs EnhSim 829.92 dps with identical inputs. So I must be doing something wrong. If I could work out how you convert total dmg to dps it would help.

Last edited by Levva : 04/19/09 at 10:23 AM.
#1797SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post

ie: to all intents and purposes MH & OH are doing same dps - Duel wielding Angry Dreads. Shouldn't the off-hand suffer a 50% damage penalty? Or is that not what the output.txt file is showing at this stage?
I don't think those are damage figures, pretty sure those are just a count of the number of events for each state.
#1798SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ruga
Heya,

I'm using enhSim 1.6.8 with the following config:

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              SW
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              SR
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.97
oh_crit                         31.97
mh_hit                          11.22
oh_hit                          11.22
mh_expertise_rating             144.00
oh_expertise_rating             144.00
ap                              3850
melee_haste                     8.41
armor_penetration               2.52
str                             131
agi                             1053
int                             517
spi                             155
spellpower                      1155
spell_crit                      21.72
spell_hit                       14.03
spell_haste                     6.47
max_mana                        11871
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        fury_of_the_five_flights

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    lava_lash
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Now, when ever I am trying to calculate the new EP values, I get an error at the armor penetration calculation (Enhancement Shaman Simulator has stopped working and has been stopped.).

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 2.17364% (57.0189 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
I'm running Vista Ultimate 64bit :<
#1799SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vlyxnol
Originally Posted by Ruga View Post
Heya,

I'm using enhSim 1.6.8 with the following config:

Now, when ever I am trying to calculate the new EP values, I get an error at the armor penetration calculation (Enhancement Shaman Simulator has stopped working and has been stopped.).

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 2.17364% (57.0189 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
I'm running Vista Ultimate 64bit :<
I am also having the same issue and it just started yesterday when i got 2pc t8 and I re-input my stats. I've tried to change some stuff to get the error to go away and i can't. I have windows XP Pro. Anyone see an obvious problem with my config?

Also I have a few other questions about enhsim.
1. I thought Boss Armor changed to over 13k, did that change again some where along the lines back to 10k?
2. Also my sims recently are putting CL + LB damage about 30dps higher than just LB alone. Is anyone else seeing a similar trend?
3. Another thing is I think their is a bug with the glove enchant, "Hyperspeed Accelerators" I give myself the enchant in the sim and it doesn't provide any additional dps vs re-simming w/o it. Again anyone else having this issue?
4. Last but not least, and i apologize if this is a bit much in 1 post but, I've noticed that as our haste % pushes our MH closer to the WF chasm its EP diminishes quite a bit for about another 130ish haste rating down to about 1.5-1.8. And it doesn't rise above 2.0 again until you push past this point. So my question is are you guys planning on pushing past it and sacrificing other stats in the interim or are you gemming AP and not going below the WF chasm period?

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         150
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  64
ep_hit_rating                   64
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 64
ep_armor_penetration_rating     64
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    500

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW4_CL
rotation_priority4              MW4_LB
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              ES
rotation_priority8              LL
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20
/20
armor_debuff_minor              5
/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0
/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0
/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0
/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688
/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0
/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0
/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0
/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0
/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0
/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280
/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0
/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0
/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0
/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0
/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0
/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52
/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178
/178
intellect_buff                  60
/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 
-
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.20
oh_crit                         30.20
mh_hit                          11.19
oh_hit                          11.19
mh_expertise_rating             142
oh_expertise_rating             142
ap                              3887
melee_haste                     10.82
armor_penetration               5.52
str                             131
agi                             891
int                             488
spi                             154
spellpower                      1168
spell_crit                      21.72
spell_hit                       14.00
spell_haste                     8.33
max_mana                        11076
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       
-
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus3                      
-

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

gloves_enchant                  hyperspeed_accelerators
cloak_enchant                   
-

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    shocking

glyph_minor1                    
-
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1
/3
mental_dexterity                3
/3
shamanistic_focus               1
/1
flurry                          5
/5
elemental_weapons               3
/3
unleashed_rage                  3
/3
weapon_mastery                  3
/3
dual_wield_specialization       3
/3
mental_quickness                3
/3
improved_stormstrike            2
/2
static_shock                    3
/3
maelstrom_weapon                5
/5

convection                      0
/5
concussion                      5
/5
call_of_flame                   3
/3
elemental_devastation           3
/3
reverberation                   0
/5
elemental_focus                 0
/1
elemental_fury                  5
/5
call_of_thunder                 0
/1
unrelenting_storm               0
/3
elemental_precision             0
/3
lightning_mastery               0
/5
elemental_oath                  0
/2
lightning_overload              0
/5
lava_flows                      0
/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0
/3
shamanism                       0
/
#1800SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
I don't think those are damage figures, pretty sure those are just a count of the number of events for each state.
Hmmm, bugger. I wonder how I can figure how why the models differ then. White DPS should be one of the easier ones.
#1801SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Shaâden
First of all, thank you very very much for this tool.

I'm really new to enhancement.
Tonight, I tried to respec enh for some tries, and it worked surprisingly very very well !
WoW Meter Online - XT-002 Deconstructor 25 down (XT-002 Deconstructor down for instance).

This was my very first raid as enhancement, and even more my first raid ever as a melee
I'm a little bit lower geared also than my teammates with this spec. Armory should work.

In order to improve a little bit my DPS I tried EnhSim, version 1.6.8.
I got some strange results, si I'd like a confirmation if possible

I used my current stuff, with [Crimson Steel] in MH (cheap 50 Ap on it)
Configuration file:

#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			1000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				20	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				50	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			0	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		1	//{ 0 | 1 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SW = spirit wolves
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3		MW5_LB
rotation_priority4		ES_SS
rotation_priority5		SS
rotation_priority6		ES
rotation_priority7		LL
rotation_priority8		MT
rotation_priority9		LS



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			24.00	//%
armor				10645	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		20.0/20.0		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0.0/5.0		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	4.0/4.0		//%, bloody frenzy, savage combat
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		688/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	99.7/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	5.0/5.0		//%, improved scorch, winter's chill, imp.shadow bolt
spell_damage_debuff		13.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of the elements
spellpower_buff			280/280		//flametongue totem, totem of wrath
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			3.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	3.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath, master poisoner
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			52/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		178/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			60/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			flask_of_endless_rage
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			-
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				fish_feast
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }



###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race                            draenei	//{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         28.70	//%
oh_crit                         28.70
mh_hit                          10.06	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit                          10.06
mh_expertise_rating             144	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating             144
ap                              3503	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
melee_haste                     13.40	//%
armor_penetration               0	//%
str                             129
agi                             731
int                             542
spi                             153
spellpower                      1244	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit                      22.46	//%
spell_hit                       12.58	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
spell_haste                     10.31	//%
max_mana                        12246
mp5                             0	//in combat

mh_imbue	 		windfury
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | flametongue_9 | frostbrand | - }

mh_enchant			-
oh_enchant			berserking
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | berserking | - }

mh_weapon			-
oh_weapon			-
//{ axe | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			mirror_of_truth
trinket2			dying_curse
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  abacus_of_violent_odds | badge_of_tenacity |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | fury_of_the_five_flights |
//  grim_toll | loathebs_shadow | mirror_of_truth | 
//  the_skull_of_guldan | meteorite_whetstone | embrace_of_the_spider |
//  dying_curse | illustration_of_the_dragon_soul |
//  sundial_of_the_exiled | forge_ember | incisor_fragment |
//  mark_of_the_war_prisoner | sphere_of_red_dragons_blood |
//  tome_of_arcane_phenomena | mark_of_norgannon | fezziks_pocketwatch |
//  thorny_rose_brooch | rune_of_finite_variation | bandits_insignia |
//  darkmoon_card_greatness | pendulum_of_telluric_currents |
//  vestige_of_haldor | twilight_serpent | thunder_capacitor |
//  tears_of_bitter_anguish | - }

totem				totem_of_hex
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | totem_of_splintering |
//  totem_of_ancestral_guidance | totem_of_the_void | skycall_totem | 
//  totem_of_hex | totem_of_dueling | totem_of_the_elemental_plane |
//  deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | hateful_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability |
//  savage_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | deadly_gladiators_totem_of_survival |
//  hateful_gladiators_totem_of_survival | savage_gladiators_totem_of_survival | - }

set_bonus1			naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2			-
set_bonus3			-
//higher set bonuses include lower ones eg. naxx_melee_4 includes naxx_melee_2
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness | desolation_battlegear |
//  skyshatter_harness_2 | skyshatter_harness_4 | skyshatter_regalia_2 |
//  skyshatter_regalia_4 | naxx_melee_2 | naxx_melee_4 | gladiators_earthshaker |
//  naxx_nuker_2 | naxx_nuker_4 | worldbreaker_battlegear_2 | worldbreaker_battlegear_4 | - }

metagem				relentless_earthstorm_diamond
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | 
//  chaotic_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyflare_diamond |
//  ember_skyflare_diamond | relentless_earthsiege_diamond | - }

gloves_enchant			-
//{ hyperspeed_accelerators | hound_mounted_pyro_rocket }
cloak_enchant			-
//{ lightweave_embroidery | swordguard_embroidery }

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			stormstrike
glyph_major2			windfury_weapon
glyph_major3			lightning_shield
//{ lightning_shield | flametongue_weapon | lightning_bolt |
//  windfury_weapon | stormstrike | earth_shock | lava | lava_lash |
//  water_mastery | feral_spirit | - }

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-



#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		2/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		3/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			3/3
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			3/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			5/5
call_of_flame			2/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			1/1
elemental_fury			5/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/3
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/3
shamanism			0/5

Result:

                  DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1548.25   27.25%    86.41
windfury            620.18    10.92%    6.85
flametongue         550.96    9.7%      54.82
stormstrike         281.37    4.95%     6.74      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           205.50    3.62%     8.45      17.63     10.62%
magma totem         500.66    8.81%     2.77      51.53     31.06%
earth shock         608.09    10.7%     8.93      39.80     23.99%
lightning bolt      878.44    15.46%    8.78      54.18     32.66%
lightning shield    305.33    5.37%     0.84      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       182.98    3.22%     0.33      2.75      1.66%

DPS                 5681.76
I've laready noticed that some of my elemental items ([Wyrmrest Necklace of Power], [Signet of Manifested Pain], [Dying Curse]) gave me better results than the enhancement items ilvl 200 or even 213 sometime.
So, these are parts of my standard enhancement set for the moment.

But a few minutes ago, I tried a crazy thing, replace my ilvl200 MH with my elemental MH: [Wraith Strike] enchanted 63 spell power.
Only 90 DPS vs 143.

Configuration file:
#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			1000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				20	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				50	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			0	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		1	//{ 0 | 1 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SW = spirit wolves
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3		MW5_LB
rotation_priority4		ES_SS
rotation_priority5		SS
rotation_priority6		ES
rotation_priority7		LL
rotation_priority8		MT
rotation_priority9		LS



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			24.00	//%
armor				10645	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		20.0/20.0		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0.0/5.0		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	4.0/4.0		//%, bloody frenzy, savage combat
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		688/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	99.7/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	5.0/5.0		//%, improved scorch, winter's chill, imp.shadow bolt
spell_damage_debuff		13.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of the elements
spellpower_buff			280/280		//flametongue totem, totem of wrath
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			3.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	3.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath, master poisoner
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			52/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		178/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			60/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			flask_of_endless_rage
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			-
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				fish_feast
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }



###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race                            draenei	//{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          90.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         28.66	//%
oh_crit                         28.66
mh_hit                          9.24	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit                          9.24
mh_expertise_rating             144	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating             144
ap                              3400	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
melee_haste                     15.11	//%
armor_penetration               0	//%
str                             129
agi                             712
int                             586
spi                             153
spellpower                      1738	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit                      22.92	//%
spell_hit                       11.55	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
spell_haste                     11.62	//%
max_mana                        12906
mp5                             0	//in combat

mh_imbue	 		windfury
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | flametongue_9 | frostbrand | - }

mh_enchant			-
oh_enchant			berserking
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | berserking | - }

mh_weapon			-
oh_weapon			-
//{ axe | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			mirror_of_truth
trinket2			dying_curse
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  abacus_of_violent_odds | badge_of_tenacity |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | fury_of_the_five_flights |
//  grim_toll | loathebs_shadow | mirror_of_truth | 
//  the_skull_of_guldan | meteorite_whetstone | embrace_of_the_spider |
//  dying_curse | illustration_of_the_dragon_soul |
//  sundial_of_the_exiled | forge_ember | incisor_fragment |
//  mark_of_the_war_prisoner | sphere_of_red_dragons_blood |
//  tome_of_arcane_phenomena | mark_of_norgannon | fezziks_pocketwatch |
//  thorny_rose_brooch | rune_of_finite_variation | bandits_insignia |
//  darkmoon_card_greatness | pendulum_of_telluric_currents |
//  vestige_of_haldor | twilight_serpent | thunder_capacitor |
//  tears_of_bitter_anguish | - }

totem				totem_of_hex
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | totem_of_splintering |
//  totem_of_ancestral_guidance | totem_of_the_void | skycall_totem | 
//  totem_of_hex | totem_of_dueling | totem_of_the_elemental_plane |
//  deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | hateful_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability |
//  savage_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | deadly_gladiators_totem_of_survival |
//  hateful_gladiators_totem_of_survival | savage_gladiators_totem_of_survival | - }

set_bonus1			naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2			-
set_bonus3			-
//higher set bonuses include lower ones eg. naxx_melee_4 includes naxx_melee_2
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness | desolation_battlegear |
//  skyshatter_harness_2 | skyshatter_harness_4 | skyshatter_regalia_2 |
//  skyshatter_regalia_4 | naxx_melee_2 | naxx_melee_4 | gladiators_earthshaker |
//  naxx_nuker_2 | naxx_nuker_4 | worldbreaker_battlegear_2 | worldbreaker_battlegear_4 | - }

metagem				relentless_earthstorm_diamond
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | 
//  chaotic_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyflare_diamond |
//  ember_skyflare_diamond | relentless_earthsiege_diamond | - }

gloves_enchant			-
//{ hyperspeed_accelerators | hound_mounted_pyro_rocket }
cloak_enchant			-
//{ lightweave_embroidery | swordguard_embroidery }

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			stormstrike
glyph_major2			windfury_weapon
glyph_major3			lightning_shield
//{ lightning_shield | flametongue_weapon | lightning_bolt |
//  windfury_weapon | stormstrike | earth_shock | lava | lava_lash |
//  water_mastery | feral_spirit | - }

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-



#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		2/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		3/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			3/3
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			3/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			5/5
call_of_flame			2/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			1/1
elemental_fury			5/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/3
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/3
shamanism			0/5


Results:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1444.21   24.97%    87.64
windfury            564.60    9.76%     6.87
flametongue         610.01    10.55%    55.04
stormstrike         260.14    4.5%      6.75      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           202.69    3.5%      8.45      17.62     10.61%
magma totem         535.69    9.26%     2.77      51.59     31.07%
earth shock         663.12    11.47%    8.94      39.77     23.95%
lightning bolt      983.91    17.01%    8.81      54.30     32.70%
lightning shield    337.53    5.84%     0.84      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       181.63    3.14%     0.33      2.75      1.66%

DPS                 5783.53

100 more DPS

So, is this possible for you ? (or did you see any mistake in my configuration file maybe?)

I know there's 13 more ilvls with Wraith strike, but still, I feel a little bit weird the idea to use a 90 DPS MH in raid as an enhancement



And finally a last question: EP values using my standrad enh set:

P                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5685.73
ap                        1.00      0.55      5796.49        110.76
crit rating               1.79      0.99      5715.50        29.77
hit rating                2.28      1.26      5723.54        37.82
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5685.73
haste rating              1.82      1.01      5715.89        30.17
armor penetration rating  1.27      0.70      5706.86        21.14
spellpower                1.10      0.61      5776.89        91.16
mh dps                    5.49      3.04      5708.55        22.82
oh dps                    2.72      1.51      5697.02        11.30
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.70      
intelligence*             1.40      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5685.73
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5685.73
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5685.73

I don't undesrtand the high haste rating value.

White melee represents less than 30% of my total damages. According to my (small) knowledge on enhancement mechanism, I thought that haste would only affect this part (and also reduce the 1.5 sec GCD of course but it doesn't look like a big DPS improvement).


Thanks for everything.

A new happy partial-time enhancement shaman
For the little story, my raid leader (a rogue) asked me to try enhancement on all Uldu bosses as my personnal DPS was almost as good as my elemental spec, but I provided really more raid utility with Unleashed Rage that we currently don't have :/


PS: sorry for my scolar english

Last edited by Shaâden : 04/19/09 at 9:27 PM.
#1802SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Fcukstar
You've stumbled on something that has been the source of a lot of discussion around here. Spell power weapons have been giving decent results when you sim them because of the added spellpower you get. This spellpower affects your nature damage, like lightning bolt, which is a large part of your dps. Blizzard's intentions probably aren't for us to use weapons like these, and I think the tier 8 2-piece set bonus (20% more SS/LS damage) help push us away from spellpower weapons.

Also, try simming for around 6000+ hours, it helps keep more consistent results.
#1803SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haalun

And finally a last question: EP values using my standrad enh set:

P                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5685.73
ap                        1.00      0.55      5796.49        110.76
crit rating               1.79      0.99      5715.50        29.77
hit rating                2.28      1.26      5723.54        37.82
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5685.73
haste rating              1.82      1.01      5715.89        30.17
armor penetration rating  1.27      0.70      5706.86        21.14
spellpower                1.10      0.61      5776.89        91.16
mh dps                    5.49      3.04      5708.55        22.82
oh dps                    2.72      1.51      5697.02        11.30
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.70      
intelligence*             1.40      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5685.73
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5685.73
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5685.73

I don't undesrtand the high haste rating value.

White melee represents less than 30% of my total damages. According to my (small) knowledge on enhancement mechanism, I thought that haste would only affect this part (and also reduce the 1.5 sec GCD of course but it doesn't look like a big DPS improvement).
Someone else explained about Wraith Strike - here is an answer to your stat questions:

The reason haste has so much value is because for enhancement, it actually affects a lot of things besides white damage. It increases flametongue, lightning shield, potentially windfury (depending on where your swing speed stands relative to the 3 sec internal cooldown) and lightning bolt damage. Lightning bolt goes up because hitting more often means more maelstrom weapon procs. You can see this for yourself by manually increasing the melee haste in your config file and watching what damage components go up. At certain levels of gear, haste may even exceed 2.0 EP value which means you will want to gem for it over AP.

This is also the reason hit rating has so much value. Hitting more, even on white swings, means more of all these beneficial damage procs. And many of the proc effects then themselves need to hit, based on the spell attack table. It looks like you are not up to the spell hit cap - for that you want 13% spell hit (342 hit rating) as a draenei with full raid buffs. Getting hit up to the spell hit cap is recommended, if you can do it without hurting your other stats too much. Hit will generally be your most valuable stat til you get to that point.
#1804SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shaâden
Thank you very much for your both answers.

I realized indeed that reaching the spell hit cap was my first priority according to the EP values. After the spell hit cap, hit rating has a lower EP than other stats (AP, haste, crit,..).
Plus my current set is really oriented spell damage, so I really need this spell hit cap.


Originally Posted by Haalun View Post
The reason haste has so much value is because for enhancement, it actually affects a lot of things besides white damage. It increases flametongue, lightning shield, potentially windfury (depending on where your swing speed stands relative to the 3 sec internal cooldown) and lightning bolt damage. Lightning bolt goes up because hitting more often means more maelstrom weapon procs. You can see this for yourself by manually increasing the melee haste in your config file and watching what damage components go up. At certain levels of gear, haste may even exceed 2.0 EP value which means you will want to gem for it over AP.
Agreed for flametongue and lightning shield.

I did not think about windfury yes. If my MH speed full-buffed is close to 1.5 - 1.55 sec for instance, I'll probably lose some WF DPS by increasing haste. On the other hand, if it's between 1.55 and 2 sec, any haste will probable increase my WF DPS. This is an interesting point, I will check this point a little bit deeper for my personnal knowledge.

About Maelström, I thought this was a PPM, so not affected by haste ?
But now I realize that the MW procs are definitely not regular, sometimes 5 charges in 5-6 seconds, and sometimes have to wait 15-20 secs.



I will run sims for 6000+ hours also, thanks for the advice.


I will not flood this post anymore with my beginner questions. I will keep reading and learn about enhancement mechanisms, and try to learn also playing as a melee

Thanks for the answers.
#1805SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Gadoh
Im currently running into a weird problem with my sim. Its only giving me around 2k dps, and im positive that im imputting everything correctly.

Here is my config file.

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   -30
ep_expertise                    -4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1		SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS
		

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         32.18
oh_crit                         32.18
mh_hit                          11.31
oh_hit                          11.31
mh_expertise_rating             141
oh_expertise_rating             141
ap                              3926
melee_haste                     6.22
armor_penetration               0.00
str                             133
agi                             814
int                             506
spi                             153
spellpower                      1223
spell_crit                      24.72
spell_hit                       14.14
spell_haste                     6.22
max_mana                        9000
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Any tips on what might be causing this? Ive been thinking over it and i cant figure out what it is.

edit: I just tried it without simming mana and my dps went up about 400. Im stil not sure what is causing it to be so low.

Last edited by Gadoh : 04/20/09 at 10:10 AM.
#1806SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Try turning off mana simulation and see if that changes anything.
#1807SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Originally Posted by Shaâden View Post
About Maelström, I thought this was a PPM, so not affected by haste ?
But now I realize that the MW procs are definitely not regular, sometimes 5 charges in 5-6 seconds, and sometimes have to wait 15-20 secs.
The Maelstrom weapon effect is normalized to weapon speed to yield approximately 1 ppm per point spent in the talent. A slower weapon will have a greater proc chance per hit than a faster weapon. You still have that same proc chance when you are hitting more often with that same weapon because of haste. Thus, haste increases Maelstrom procs.
#1808SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Marreus
I am getting similar results with the latest version (1.6.8) of the sim, 2.5K dps. Below are my config file and the sim results with simulate mana turned on and off.

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    -4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              SS
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.01
oh_crit                         31.01
mh_hit                          11.10
oh_hit                          11.10
mh_expertise_rating             146
oh_expertise_rating             146
ap                              3697
melee_haste                     7.65
armor_penetration               7.47
str                             135
agi                             820
int                             521
spi                             155
spellpower                      1109
spell_crit                      23.57
spell_hit                       13.88
spell_haste                     5.89
max_mana                        11391
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        fury_of_the_five_flights

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

With Simulate Mana turned off.
MH:
miss                2370001        9.83%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            5776334        23.96%
hit                 4972762        20.62%
crit                10993571       45.59%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.96%
procs/swings        14.62%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 4231808        51.39%
crit                4002644        48.61%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2094495        51.64%
crit                1961135        48.36%

OH:
miss                2470090        9.84%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            6016273        23.97%
hit                 5182784        20.65%
crit                11433209       45.55%

OH Flametongue:
miss                37839          0.12%
hit                 17626010       55.28%
crit                14223124       44.60%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2095353        51.67%
crit                1960277        48.33%

Earth Shock:
miss                6720           0.12%
hit                 3019070        55.28%
crit                2435788        44.60%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2671364        51.38%
crit                2527713        48.62%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                6103           0.12%
hit                 2832307        55.26%
crit                2287449        44.63%

Lightning Shield:
miss                6485           0.15%
hit                 4418643        99.85%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               974894         6.42%
glancing            3637074        23.96%
hit                 8830914        58.17%
crit                1739330        11.46%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 46.57

flurry uptime                  88.04%
unleashed rage uptime          99.99%
elemental devastation uptime   80.74%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.40%
oh enchant uptime              37.59%
trinket1 uptime                17.92%
trinket2 uptime                0.00%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               9.04      0.35%     82.03
windfury            3.80      0.15%     6.86
flametongue         558.60    21.52%    53.14
stormstrike         1.73      0.07%     6.76      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           231.15    8.91%     8.67      17.16     15.98%
earth shock         649.88    25.04%    9.10      36.70     34.18%
lightning bolt      895.13    34.49%    8.54      50.77     47.28%
lightning shield    244.90    9.44%     0.82      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       0.94      0.04%     0.33      2.75      2.57%

DPS                 2595.17
MPS                 107.38
MP2min              12885.24
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
With Simulate Mana turned on.

MH:
miss                2372487        9.84%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            5781184        23.98%
hit                 4971560        20.62%
crit                10985664       45.56%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.96%
procs/swings        14.61%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 4232490        51.42%
crit                3998384        48.58%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2094356        51.66%
crit                1959617        48.34%

OH:
miss                2472283        9.85%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            6016803        23.97%
hit                 5179512        20.64%
crit                11431917       45.54%

OH Flametongue:
miss                38381          0.12%
hit                 17609649       55.29%
crit                14202886       44.59%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2093961        51.65%
crit                1960012        48.35%

Earth Shock:
miss                6601           0.12%
hit                 3005306        55.24%
crit                2428434        44.64%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2656922        51.40%
crit                2511789        48.60%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                6110           0.12%
hit                 2832285        55.32%
crit                2281584        44.56%

Lightning Shield:
miss                6356           0.14%
hit                 4415812        99.86%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               975676         6.44%
glancing            3636850        23.99%
hit                 8811476        58.12%
crit                1737186        11.46%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 46.57

flurry uptime                  88.01%
unleashed rage uptime          99.99%
elemental devastation uptime   80.63%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.12%
oh enchant uptime              37.54%
trinket1 uptime                17.91%
trinket2 uptime                0.00%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 17.76     13.50%
replenishment       34.41     26.15%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.90      6.77%
shamanistic rage    70.50     53.58%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               9.03      0.35%     82.02
windfury            3.80      0.15%     6.86
flametongue         557.85    21.55%    53.08
stormstrike         1.73      0.07%     6.76      37.23     25.80%
lava lash           229.73    8.87%     8.61      17.05     11.82%
earth shock         647.48    25.01%    9.07      36.55     25.33%
lightning bolt      893.56    34.52%    8.53      50.69     35.14%
lightning shield    244.69    9.45%     0.82      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       0.94      0.04%     0.33      2.75      1.91%

DPS                 2588.80
MPS                 144.28
MP2min              17313.33
MRPS                182.47
Out of mana time    0.02%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
(e) added version of the sim for clarification.

Last edited by Marreus : 04/20/09 at 12:15 PM.
#1809SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Holyshyit
For the people getting weird low dps in the sim, there is a issue with the default config.txt that comes with the package -

armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 1260/1260

should be

armor_debuff_major 20/20
armor_debuff_minor 5/5


Hopefully the author will fix the install package.
#1810SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EvilGopher
High haste EP

Ok, I know this has been mentioned before in the thread but I've spent the past hour searching and looking through the 73 pages of posts and cant find where they came up, let alone whether it be applying to the 3.1 download or not.

I keep getting EP values for haste rating over 2.0. I hear that sometimes this can be the case due to a WF loss that apparently only ever happens in the perfect world of the sim, but I just want to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong before I either start gemming for haste or start simply ignoring the simmed number and making up one of my own.

Config file:

simulation_time                 50000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    3
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              SR

miss                            8
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         33.22
oh_crit                         33.22
mh_hit                          11.31
oh_hit                          11.31
mh_expertise_rating             136
oh_expertise_rating             136
ap                              4025
melee_haste                     4.16
armor_penetration               2.52
str                             135
agi                             925
int                             474
spi                             155
spellpower                      1207
spell_crit                      24.25
spell_hit                       14.14
spell_haste                     3.2
max_mana                        11200
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_crusade

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Output file:

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.28364% (33.6725 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6057.466
ap                        1.000     0.555     6168.392       110.926
crit rating               1.760     0.976     6086.754       29.288
hit rating                1.613     0.895     6084.309       26.844
expertise rating          0.000     0.000     0.000          -6057.466
haste rating              2.017     1.119     6091.021       33.555
armor penetration rating  1.382     0.766     6080.457       22.992
spellpower                1.112     0.617     6149.945       92.479
mh dps                    4.669     2.589     6076.887       19.421
oh dps                    2.575     1.428     6068.175       10.709
strength                  1.100
agility                   1.683
intelligence*             1.449
spirit                    0.000     0.000     0.000          -6057.466
mana                      0.000     0.000     0.000          -6057.466
mp5                       0.000     0.000     0.000          -6057.466

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.000, CritRating=1.760, HitRating=1.613, HasteRating=2
.017, ExpertiseRating=0.000, ArmorPenetration=1.382, SpellDamage=1.112, MainHand
Dps=4.669, OffHandDps=2.575, Strength=1.100, Agility=1.683, Intellect=1.449, Spi
rit=0.000, Mana=0.000, Mp5=0.000 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.100&mh=2.017&dps=4.669&mp5=0.000
&mcr=1.760&odps=2.575&spd=1.112&Agi=1.683&mhit=1.613&Int=1.449&Spi=0.000&map=1.0
00&arp=1.382&Exp=0.000

elapsed simulation time: 500000.000h
elapsed real time: 1488.134s
simulation speed: 1209568x
Any help would be appreciated.
#1811SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Vlyxnol
For those of you who are getting only 2k dps in the sim, I had the same problem earlier and yes the armor values is one of the things that does this but ALSO check your Unleashed Rage talent points it should be 3/3 NOT 5/5 this also is messing up your sims.


Also, Ruga did you have any luck in getting your Enhsim to not crash when trying to Calculate EP Values? I'm still having problems with this and I nothing seems to work

Last edited by Vlyxnol : 04/20/09 at 12:18 PM.
#1812SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Actually you got that part wrong. Abnormal low values for haste are due to WF CD 'clipping'. The high value for haste is most likely right, due to the 3.1 haste buff. However, the 2.017 vs 2 AP which you get (32 Ap gem vs 16 haste gem) is at the limit. I would say change some AP to haste (in various steps in the sim) and simulate to see if your DPS.
#1813SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eathir
After playing a retri paly for a long time I rolled back to shaman not to long ago and started reading through these parts of EJ's great forums aswell, along with starting to use enhsim (been using Rawr for ages). Now I can't get enhsim to get any Unleashed Rage uptime at all, and the modeled DPS seems to be about 400 - 700 below what I usually perform in 25 man bossfights that aint requiering to much movement and I guess that this is the source of the discrepency? (Recount aint showing totemdmg either for me atm and with WWS not splitting up fights in Ulduar atm its hard to get a good idea of the true source of dmg).

here is the config file I've been running:
simulation_time                 6000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    2
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LS
rotation_priority5              MT
rotation_priority6              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2,6
oh_speed                        2,6
mh_dps                          90.0
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         28.94
oh_crit                         28.94
mh_hit                          11.04
oh_hit                          11.04
mh_expertise_rating             146
oh_expertise_rating             146
ap                              3331
melee_haste                     10.31
armor_penetration               7.15
str                             129
agi                             836
int                             529
spi                             153
spellpower                      1460
spell_crit                      21.36
spell_hit                       13.80
spell_haste                     7.93
max_mana                        12051
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
and the resulting output file:
MH:
miss                145            9.19%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            393            24.92%
hit                 340            21.56%
crit                699            44.32%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.99%
procs/swings        13.77%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 269            54.67%
crit                223            45.33%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 117            55.98%
crit                92             44.02%

OH:
miss                167            10.59%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            367            23.27%
hit                 347            22.00%
crit                696            44.13%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1203           64.30%
crit                668            35.70%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 117            55.98%
crit                92             44.02%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 176            66.17%
crit                90             33.83%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 135            53.57%
crit                117            46.43%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 138            59.74%
crit                93             40.26%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 240            100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 41.87

flurry uptime                  92.63%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   71.52%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              48.27%
oh enchant uptime              31.12%
trinket1 uptime                32.54%
trinket2 uptime                18.89%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1473.11   27.93%    105.13
windfury            553.44    10.49%    8.20
flametongue         518.45    9.83%     62.37
stormstrike         221.10    4.19%     6.97      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           161.77    3.07%     8.40      23.14     12.05%
magma totem         563.50    10.68%    2.97      55.17     28.73%
earth shock         614.19    11.64%    8.87      57.30     29.84%
lightning bolt      832.33    15.78%    7.70      56.42     29.38%
lightning shield    337.12    6.39%     1.13      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 5275.02
MPS                 192.02
MP2min              23042.25
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 0.50h
elapsed real time: 0.64s
simulation speed: 2812x
Another thing, when running these, I get new windows without data inputed into them pop up when I use the enhsimgui for some reason, is this something simple I just forgot to add that does this?
#1814SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3MatsT
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Actually you got that part wrong. Abnormal low values for haste are due to WF CD 'clipping'. The high value for haste is most likely right, due to the 3.1 haste buff. However, the 2.017 vs 2 AP which you get (32 Ap gem vs 16 haste gem) is at the limit. I would say change some AP to haste (in various steps in the sim) and simulate to see if your DPS.
The "abnormally low haste ep" at some attack speeds will be compensated for by a slightly raised ep at other attack speeds. This would indicate that IF the windfury chasm is only present in simulations, he could be better off with attack power.
#1815SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Vlyxnol
Originally Posted by Eathir View Post
After playing a retri paly for a long time I rolled back to shaman not to long ago and started reading through these parts of EJ's great forums aswell, along with starting to use enhsim (been using Rawr for ages). Now I can't get enhsim to get any Unleashed Rage uptime at all, and the modeled DPS seems to be about 400 - 700 below what I usually perform in 25 man bossfights that aint requiering to much movement and I guess that this is the source of the discrepency? (Recount aint showing totemdmg either for me atm and with WWS not splitting up fights in Ulduar atm its hard to get a good idea of the true source of dmg).

min_lag 0
max_lag 0


rotation_priority_count 6
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 SS
rotation_priority3 ES
rotation_priority4 LS
rotation_priority5 MT
rotation_priority6 LL

armor 10645


physical_vulnerability_debuff 4.0/4.0

attack_power_buff_multiplier 99.7/99.7

These are the parts of your config that I think need to be changed, Min lag and Max lag should not be 0 they should represent your average lag to the server. Your Missing Spirit Wolves in your rotation and also MT should be above LS. Also the boss Armor (to my knowledge) should be 13083. Do you use an Arms warrior generally in your raids? If not, put that to 0. And the reason why you do not show Unleashed Rage uptime is because you have the "attack_power_buff_multiplier" checked which means that you have trueshot aura or something, basically just uncheck it.

I thought i had the same problem with recount not showing Totem damage as well but i found out that infact in "overall damage done" it IS combining totem damage and pet damage however when you click on your details it just doesn't show it in there, if you click show pets in the overall window you'll be able to see your totem damage. If you want proof that is combining them just uncheck "merge pets" and watch the damage done window.

As for your WWS's tell your raid leader to start using WMO as well as WWS (I know its a hassle) but WMO is more accurate in regards to DPS and also doesn't bug out. WWS is very helpful in breaking apart ability damage and incoming mitigation on tanks and such.

Last edited by Vlyxnol : 04/20/09 at 1:19 PM.
#1816SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by MatsT View Post
The "abnormally low haste ep" at some attack speeds will be compensated for by a slightly raised ep at other attack speeds. This would indicate that IF the windfury chasm is only present in simulations, he could be better off with attack power.

Except Tukez fixed the sim to remove the incidence of the Windfury Chasm in 1.6.5

EnhSim, DPS simulator
1.6.5
-Changed Windfury cooldown to more accurately mimic ingame mechanics. Windfury cooldown is now normal distributed random number. Mean 3.0s and standard deviation 0.10s. This means 95.4% of time, cd is between 2.8 and 3.2s. The cd is hard capped between 2.5 and 3.5s.
#1817SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vlyxnol
I've finally gotten the sim to not crash when calculating EP values for me. It seems that when I have "Hyperspeed Accelerators" and "Worldbreaker Battlegear 2pc bonus" together it crashes after the haste calculation for me. Since I've found the "Hyperspeed Accelerators" not to be working atm for me I will just not use them. Would someone mind enabling both of these options and doing an EP Calc to see if the sim crashes for you as well?

Sry for this trial and error diagnosing I do not know if or how to use debugging to better figure this out.



Working config when calculating EP=
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         150
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  64
ep_hit_rating                   64
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 64
ep_armor_penetration_rating     64
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    500

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW4_CL
rotation_priority4              MW4_LB
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              ES
rotation_priority8              LL
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.20
oh_crit                         30.20
mh_hit                          11.19
oh_hit                          11.19
mh_expertise_rating             142
oh_expertise_rating             142
ap                              3887
melee_haste                     10.82
armor_penetration               5.52
str                             131
agi                             891
int                             488
spi                             154
spellpower                      1168
spell_crit                      21.72
spell_hit                       14.00
spell_haste                     8.33
max_mana                        11076
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    shocking

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Result=
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 2.43977% (64 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5808.77
ap                        1.00      0.55      5918.60        109.83
crit rating               1.96      1.07      5877.51        68.74
hit rating                1.66      0.91      5866.94        58.17
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5808.77
haste rating              1.81      1.00      5872.45        63.69
armor penetration rating  1.72      0.94      5869.12        60.35
spellpower                1.07      0.59      5896.81        88.05
mh dps                    5.35      2.94      5830.82        22.05
oh dps                    2.40      1.32      5818.65        9.88
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.74
intelligence*             1.43
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5808.77
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5808.77
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5808.77

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.96, HitRating=1.66, HasteRating=1.81
, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.72, SpellDamage=1.07, MainHandDps=5.3
5, OffHandDps=2.40, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.74, Intellect=1.43, Spirit=0.00, Ma
na=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.81&dps=5.35&mp5=0.00&mcr
=1.96&odps=2.40&spd=1.07&Agi=1.74&mhit=1.66&Int=1.43&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.72&
Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 100000.00h
elapsed real time: 294.83s
simulation speed: 1221050x
NOT working config when calculating EP values=
simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         150
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  64
ep_hit_rating                   64
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 64
ep_armor_penetration_rating     64
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    500

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW4_CL
rotation_priority4              MW4_LB
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              ES
rotation_priority8              LL
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.20
oh_crit                         30.20
mh_hit                          11.19
oh_hit                          11.19
mh_expertise_rating             142
oh_expertise_rating             142
ap                              3887
melee_haste                     10.82
armor_penetration               5.52
str                             131
agi                             891
int                             488
spi                             154
spellpower                      1168
spell_crit                      21.72
spell_hit                       14.00
spell_haste                     8.33
max_mana                        11076
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

gloves_enchant                  hyperspeed_accelerators
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    shocking

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Result=
Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 2.43977% (64 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.

Than I get a window, from windows xp, that says "enhsim.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close"
#1818SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Worked fine for me. I just used my normal config and selected those two options (well, just the set bonus since I have hyperaccelerators as part of my normal config already) and no issues at all.

Make sure your GUI is pointing to the correct exe file (I just deleted all my previous versions to limit the incidence of that error) since the hyperaccelerators are an option in the latest version and if your GUI is pointing to a previous version everything would probably work fine until it hit that where it would try to jump the Shark so to speak.
#1819SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vlyxnol
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
Worked fine for me. I just used my normal config and selected those two options (well, just the set bonus since I have hyperaccelerators as part of my normal config already) and no issues at all.

Make sure your GUI is pointing to the correct exe file (I just deleted all my previous versions to limit the incidence of that error) since the hyperaccelerators are an option in the latest version and if your GUI is pointing to a previous version everything would probably work fine until it hit that where it would try to jump the Shark so to speak.
crap, thats exactly it Rouned. TYVM!
#1820SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eathir
Originally Posted by Vlyxnol View Post
These are the parts of your config that I think need to be changed, Min lag and Max lag should not be 0 they should represent your average lag to the server. Your Missing Spirit Wolves in your rotation and also MT should be above LS. Also the boss Armor (to my knowledge) should be 13083. Do you use an Arms warrior generally in your raids? If not, put that to 0. And the reason why you do not show Unleashed Rage uptime is because you have the "attack_power_buff_multiplier" checked which means that you have trueshot aura or something, basically just uncheck it.

I thought i had the same problem with recount not showing Totem damage as well but i found out that infact in "overall damage done" it IS combining totem damage and pet damage however when you click on your details it just doesn't show it in there, if you click show pets in the overall window you'll be able to see your totem damage. If you want proof that is combining them just uncheck "merge pets" and watch the damage done window.

As for your WWS's tell your raid leader to start using WMO as well as WWS (I know its a hassle) but WMO is more accurate in regards to DPS and also doesn't bug out. WWS is very helpful in breaking apart ability damage and incoming mitigation on tanks and such.
Thanks alot! That puts the numbers in the rigth ballpark atleast, still a bit low but that might be solved by longer sim times hopefully.
#1821SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Shaâden
Just tried to play again with EnhSim and get higher numbers...

I got 5682 DPS using my current MH [].

I got 5784 DPS using [].


I've just tested with [], but enchanting both weapons with flametongue, don't use WF anymore. I've also replaced WF glyph with FlameTongue one.

Conf File:
#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent 

etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			5000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during 

the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always 

uses 1 thread
min_lag				20	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player 

reaction time
max_lag				50	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			0	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but 

doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are 

calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the 

normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference 

and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit 

rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting 

from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give 

too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation 

time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although 

you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a 

test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important 

when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still 

up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual 

wf
bloodlust_casters		1	//{ 0 | 1 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds 

left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast 

Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast 

LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SW = spirit wolves
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3		MW5_LB
rotation_priority4		ES_SS
rotation_priority5		SS
rotation_priority6		ES
rotation_priority7		LL
rotation_priority8		MT
rotation_priority9		LS



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			24.00	//%
armor				10645	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		20.0/20.0		//acid spit, expose armor, 

sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0.0/5.0		//faerie fire, sting, curse of 

recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	4.0/4.0		//%, bloody frenzy, savage combat
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		688/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	99.7/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, 

abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	5.0/5.0		//%, improved scorch, winter's chill, 

imp.shadow bolt
spell_damage_debuff		13.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, 

curse of the elements
spellpower_buff			280/280		//flametongue totem, totem of wrath
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			3.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift 

retribution
percentage_damage_increase	3.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified 

retribution
crit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of 

wrath, master poisoner
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			52/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		178/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			60/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the 

flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			flask_of_endless_rage
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | 

elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			-
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				fish_feast
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }



###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race                            draenei	//{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          90.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         28.66	//%
oh_crit                         28.66
mh_hit                          9.24	//%, you give hit which shows on your character 

sheet
oh_hit                          9.24
mh_expertise_rating             144	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating             144
ap                              3400	//when changing this, remember to change the 

spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
melee_haste                     15.11	//%
armor_penetration               0	//%
str                             129
agi                             712
int                             586
spi                             153
spellpower                      1738	//you give the spellpower which shows on your 

character sheet
spell_crit                      22.92	//%
spell_hit                       11.55	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your 

character sheet
spell_haste                     11.62	//%
max_mana                        12906
mp5                             0	//in combat

mh_imbue	 		flametongue
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | flametongue_9 | frostbrand | - }

mh_enchant			-
oh_enchant			berserking
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | berserking | - }

mh_weapon			-
oh_weapon			-
//{ axe | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			mirror_of_truth
trinket2			dying_curse
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  abacus_of_violent_odds | badge_of_tenacity |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | fury_of_the_five_flights |
//  grim_toll | loathebs_shadow | mirror_of_truth | 
//  the_skull_of_guldan | meteorite_whetstone | embrace_of_the_spider |
//  dying_curse | illustration_of_the_dragon_soul |
//  sundial_of_the_exiled | forge_ember | incisor_fragment |
//  mark_of_the_war_prisoner | sphere_of_red_dragons_blood |
//  tome_of_arcane_phenomena | mark_of_norgannon | fezziks_pocketwatch |
//  thorny_rose_brooch | rune_of_finite_variation | bandits_insignia |
//  darkmoon_card_greatness | pendulum_of_telluric_currents |
//  vestige_of_haldor | twilight_serpent | thunder_capacitor |
//  tears_of_bitter_anguish | - }

totem				totem_of_hex
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | totem_of_splintering |
//  totem_of_ancestral_guidance | totem_of_the_void | skycall_totem | 
//  totem_of_hex | totem_of_dueling | totem_of_the_elemental_plane |
//  deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | 

hateful_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability |
//  savage_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | deadly_gladiators_totem_of_survival |
//  hateful_gladiators_totem_of_survival | savage_gladiators_totem_of_survival | - }

set_bonus1			naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2			-
set_bonus3			-
//higher set bonuses include lower ones eg. naxx_melee_4 includes naxx_melee_2
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness | desolation_battlegear |
//  skyshatter_harness_2 | skyshatter_harness_4 | skyshatter_regalia_2 |
//  skyshatter_regalia_4 | naxx_melee_2 | naxx_melee_4 | gladiators_earthshaker |
//  naxx_nuker_2 | naxx_nuker_4 | worldbreaker_battlegear_2 | worldbreaker_battlegear_4 

| - }

metagem				relentless_earthstorm_diamond
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | 
//  chaotic_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyflare_diamond |
//  ember_skyflare_diamond | relentless_earthsiege_diamond | - }

gloves_enchant			-
//{ hyperspeed_accelerators | hound_mounted_pyro_rocket }
cloak_enchant			-
//{ lightweave_embroidery | swordguard_embroidery }

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			stormstrike
glyph_major2			flametongue_weapon 
glyph_major3			lightning_shield 
//{ lightning_shield | flametongue_weapon | lightning_bolt |
//  windfury_weapon | stormstrike | earth_shock | lava | lava_lash |
//  water_mastery | feral_spirit | - }

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-



#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		2/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		3/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			3/3
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			3/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			5/5
call_of_flame			2/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			1/1
elemental_fury			5/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/3
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/3
shamanism			0/5

Result:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1437.86   24.61%    87.19
flametongue         1207.66   20.67%    99.94
stormstrike         260.37    4.46%     6.75      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           205.65    3.52%     8.58      17.76     11.08%
magma totem         569.82    9.75%     2.80      52.03     32.46%
earth shock         712.12    12.19%    9.00      39.29     24.51%
lightning bolt      950.61    16.27%    7.90      48.48     30.24%
lightning shield    316.89    5.42%     0.74      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       182.15    3.12%     0.33      2.75      1.72%

DPS                 5843.14


EDIT: I changed a little bit my template to take the last point in Call of flamme (3/3) and 2/5 reverberation, and switch Magma Totem and LavaLash in the priority list.
Still using FT enchant on my both weapons.
New result:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1438.41   24.33%    87.21
flametongue         1207.41   20.42%    99.90
stormstrike         261.96    4.43%     6.79      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           202.82    3.43%     8.46      23.31     11.80%
magma totem         614.07    10.38%    2.87      53.29     26.98%
earth shock         737.85    12.48%    9.33      60.29     30.52%
lightning bolt      950.61    16.08%    7.90      57.90     29.31%
lightning shield    317.93    5.38%     0.75      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       182.16    3.08%     0.33      2.75      1.39%

DPS                 5913.23

Last edited by Shaâden : 04/21/09 at 5:53 AM.
#1822SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
First off you forgot that you need to use Flametongue rank 9 on one of the weapons if you are using FT/FT otherwise you will lose a significant portion of your procs from the hidden cooldown on same ranked FT.

Taking that into account and swapping my CG for a Wrathstrike with +63 spellpower I get 5976dps for FT9/FT. However changing the FT9 to WF bumps the dps up to 6063dps and then swapping out the FT glyph for a WF glyph takes it to 6069dps. Changing the enchant to Berzerker on the Wrathstrike then takes it to 6131dps and then swapping it back to CG takes it to 6146dps.

So what was your point?

If we find another Slow Caster Mainhand in Ulduar I bet it would be amazingly good for Enhancement. It would still end up using WF/FT though.
#1823SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3MatsT
Logic dictates that the highest priority spell should be the one with the highest damage per cast. Is there any particular reason why something like this is not the normally used rotation?

rotation_priority_count		8
rotation_priority1		SW
rotation_priority2		LS
rotation_priority3		MT
rotation_priority4		MW5_LB
rotation_priority5		ES
rotation_priority6		SS
rotation_priority7		LL
rotation_priority8		SR
Also, I'm not really sure how recasting of lightning shield while there is still charges left is handled by the simulator. It's possible that it would be a dps upgrade to refresh a Lightning Shield with one charge left over casting Lava Lash to avoid having to delay more important spells later.
#1824SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by MatsT View Post

Also, I'm not really sure how recasting of lightning shield while there is still charges left is handled by the simulator. It's possible that it would be a dps upgrade to refresh a Lightning Shield with one charge left over casting Lava Lash to avoid having to delay more important spells later.
Maybe the option that reads "cast LS only if charges left" would be what you are looking for. I just set that to "2" and then put LS as the lowest priority making the assumption that whenever there is a free GCD it will be spent recasting LS.
#1825SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
ethug
(e) Figured out the issue delete this post please.

Last edited by ethug : 04/21/09 at 10:17 AM.
#1826SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Sunder and Faerie Fire are both percentages now so change the armor debuffs to 20 and 5 respectively and your results will make a lot more sense.
#1827SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
But MT does not offer more DPS per cast than MW5_LB. Looking at my last WWS for Kolo. My MT hits for 700ish and crits for 1500ish. My LB hits for 3200ish and crits for 7900ish. Also LB has around 10%+ more crit than MT and it can proc elemental devastation, which MT can not.

So you can skip 5 MT hits (10s I believe since it hits every 2s) in favor of getting a LB in. If I use MW5_LB now, I can use MT the next GCD and I will only lose 1 MT hit. So I gain 3200 damage and lose a possible of 700.
#1828SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3MatsT
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
But MT does not offer more DPS per cast than MW5_LB. Looking at my last WWS for Kolo. My MT hits for 700ish and crits for 1500ish. My LB hits for 3200ish and crits for 7900ish. Also LB has around 10%+ more crit than MT and it can proc elemental devastation, which MT can not.

So you can skip 5 MT hits (10s I believe since it hits every 2s) in favor of getting a LB in. If I use MW5_LB now, I can use MT the next GCD and I will only lose 1 MT hit. So I gain 3200 damage and lose a possible of 700.
MT is up for 20 seconds so it ticks 10 times. It's almost certainly going to be more damage per cast than MW5_LB. Keep in mind that if you cast MT first and MW5_LB the next GCD, you didn't really lose an entire lightning bolt, you only lost 1 second on your MW5_LB cooldown, or ~0.7 charges if you prefer to put it that way.

Concerning LS recasting: Thanks for the explanation Rounced. The "perfect" way to handle it would be to have different rotation entries for LS_0, LS_1, LS_8 etc, but i guess the bottom of the rotation is reached often enough that this doesn't matter. Magma Totem should "fall off" more often, but it's probably not enough of an upgrade in terms of damage/cast over say MW5_LB for it to make a huge difference which order you put them in.
#1829SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
you didn't really lose an entire lightning bolt, you only lost 1 second on your MW5_LB cooldown, or ~0.7 charges if you prefer to put it that way.
The first part is correct, I did not think about the fact that you lose only part of an MW5_LB. The second part is somewhat incorrect however since you do not know how many charges of MW5_LB you will get, since it does not have an ICD. If (yes I know imaginary world) your WF procs right after you use it, you could get 3 charges back right away (best case scenario).
#1830SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Have we had any testing of Fire Elemental now its been buffed? Is it worth adding this to the sim?
#1831SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
It's definitely worth adding to the sim. After playing around with it on dummies a few times, I was seeing anywhere from a 700-1000dps boost from it (granted it was only about 5 tries due to its CD) which should only get higher with raid buffs and Heroism. It is without a doubt the highest dps Fire Totem we now have on a single target.
#1832SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
It benefits from Bloodlust? You tested that? One of the major issues with the elemental in TBC was that it ran out of mana incredibly fast which sort of ramped down its DPS.
#1833SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
MatsT
Even if it runs out of mana it should be worth keeping up until it does. Also, since it's melee attacks were also buffed, it might be close to Magma Totem even when oom.

EDIT: Fire Elemental does NOT benefit from Bloodlust or Mana Spring Totem and i guess the same would apply to Replenishment and similiar. It's possible to buff it with Earth Shield, so other single target buffs like BoM should be possible, though i haven't been able to test their effects.

Last edited by MatsT : 04/21/09 at 1:32 PM.
#1834SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Vesham
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
It benefits from Bloodlust? You tested that? One of the major issues with the elemental in TBC was that it ran out of mana incredibly fast which sort of ramped down its DPS.
Removed for mistaken information.

Last edited by Vesham : 04/21/09 at 10:24 PM.
#1835SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rava
Originally Posted by Vesham View Post
Yes, it benefits from Bloodlust. It does run out of mana very quickly, but it still hits really hard after it runs out of mana.

Edit - Has anyone determined how the Fire Elemental scales by the way?
Your fire elemental totem must be some sort of magic fire elemental because mine sure as heck doesn't gain bloodlust.

The elemental is based solely on your casting stats and targeted abilities. It doesn't benefit from auras, totems, unleashed rage, etc.
#1836SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by rava View Post
Your fire elemental totem must be some sort of magic fire elemental because mine sure as heck doesn't gain bloodlust.

The elemental is based solely on your casting stats and targeted abilities. It doesn't benefit from auras, totems, unleashed rage, etc.
aren't all fire elementals, "magic" fire elementals by definition?

Real questions.

Does their damage increase if the target is debuffed with CoE/Ebon Plague? What about Scorch debuff? Is the elemental's stats based on the shaman's stats at time of summon or do they change as the shaman's stats change (eg I use a trinket to boost my spellpower does the elemental cause more damage because of it)?

Best to start with the basics and work from there, especially if we want it included in Sim.
#1837SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rava
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
aren't all fire elementals, "magic" fire elementals by definition?

Real questions.

Does their damage increase if the target is debuffed with CoE/Ebon Plague? What about Scorch debuff? Is the elemental's stats based on the shaman's stats at time of summon or do they change as the shaman's stats change (eg I use a trinket to boost my spellpower does the elemental cause more damage because of it)?

Best to start with the basics and work from there, especially if we want it included in Sim.
They gain from % damage buffs but I'm unsure about the crit. The atats are solely based off of casted stats as far as I can tell, the aura is the only constant way to test this with damage ranges though. I dropped one without UR, hit the dummy a few times to get UR up and the aura damage didn't increase at all with ~400 ap and 120 spell damage.
#1838SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.6.9

1.6.9
-Trinket Pyrite Infuser added.
-Totem of the Dancing Flame added.
-Fixed Lava Lash with Flametongue not giving 25% bonus damage.


I got to say that EnhSim has become a real pain to update. The code is just too messy to maintain. That's why I have been thinking about a new simulator for a while now. The main goal would be maintainability. To achieve that, I made up couple requirements:
  • Items defined in files.
  • New functionality without compiling.
  • Cross-platform.
  • Ease of use.

First I thought of C++/Lua for simulator and Java for the GUI. Then I thought of all the problems C++ brings:
  1. Cross-platform is trouble.
  2. Integrating Lua is not so easy and coding with it is not so nice.
  3. Default libraries are lacking.

And I decided, If I'm going to make it, it has to be done in Java, which solves problems 1 and 3. I searched for scripting languages and found couple of nice ones with Java syntax and libraries in use, but as expected, they were way too slow. Then I came across javax.tools in the default Java libraries. Basically, it allows you to compile Java in runtime, meaning I could use plain Java as a scripting language. Problem 2 solved.

Java simulator is still going to be a lot slower than EnhSim, especially if the simulator has all the these nice features. No one likes waiting, so I thought, maybe I could build grid computing functionality for the simulator. Basically, we could create computing grid from the users of the simulator. Thoughts?

I'm not yet saying I'll make a new simulator, it takes a LOT of time. I could use that time for something more useful. I want to hear some opinions and ideas first, to see do people think it's a good idea. If it's not, then it's easy decision to not to make it. If it is, I can think about it more. So what do you think?

EDIT: Levva, put these to ShockAndAwe/Rawr exports:
config_source shockandawe
config_source rawr
#1839SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
After checking further, I realized I definitely mispoke about the Greater Fire Elemental. It definitely does not benefit from Heroism. (I think I mistook it for Feral Spirits for some reason)
#1840SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Good news is, if you redesign in Java I can probably assist.

[e] Not sure what you mean that it will be slower. For reference, in the real world I design components for a large scale java military simulation. Java should be able to handle the speed we're looking for. It's just going to require a very good design.

Last edited by Malan : 04/21/09 at 11:23 PM.
#1841SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Andrast
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Good news is, if you redesign in Java I can probably assist.

[e] Not sure what you mean that it will be slower. For reference, in the real world I design components for a large scale java military simulation. Java should be able to handle the speed we're looking for. It's just going to require a very good design.
I'd be more than willing to help and my expertise with Java far surpasses my C++ experience.

As Malan has said the design of the application will have far greater impact on the performance than the language choice would. If you can get the basic layout of the application set into a code repository somewhere and set up a list of tickets for us to work on I'd gladly get my hands dirty.
#1842SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
IMB111
I just tested the new version 1.6.9 and I get an error:

Problemsignatur:
  Problemereignisname:	APPCRASH
  Anwendungsname:	enhsim.exe
  Anwendungsversion:	1.6.9.0
  Anwendungszeitstempel:	49ee3f9c
  Fehlermodulname:	enhsim.exe
  Fehlermodulversion:	1.6.9.0
  Fehlermodulzeitstempel:	49ee3f9c
  Ausnahmecode:	c0000005
  Ausnahmeoffset:	0004fb9c
  Betriebsystemversion:	6.0.6001.2.1.0.256.6
  Gebietsschema-ID:	1031
  Zusatzinformation 1:	fd00
  Zusatzinformation 2:	ea6f5fe8924aaa756324d57f87834160
  Zusatzinformation 3:	fd00
  Zusatzinformation 4:	ea6f5fe8924aaa756324d57f87834160
Edit: Seems like I made a mistake while changing the config, since using the default config works fine.

Last edited by IMB111 : 04/22/09 at 8:00 AM.
#1843SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Moving from C++ to Java will be a performance hit but I'm not up to date on how fast the JRE is compared to regular binaries. Another option is moving to other platform-independent languages like Python[*]. The drawback here is that an interpreted language can be several times slower than C/C++/etc. This has been addressed and resulted in packages like Numpy Home Page

Not sure what you hope to achieve with adding an interpreted language in the sim. Is it for writing config, rotations and the likes? Can't you just use XML for that if you need something with a syntax? I use python config files in a lot of my projects. It has it's benefits, but you sure can shit up your program with it as well.

[*] Python, like Java, should be platform-independent but this isn't the case. When dealing with filesystems, memory management, etc you usually end up hitting OS-specific parts. AFAIK the only exotic parts in EnhSim is the threading, which both Java and Python should handle very well.
#1844SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
I too would be happy to help work on a collaborative java program. As others have said java can be just as fast if the design is right, I too have far far more java experience than C or C++ or python. I can also get the assistance of a mate of mine who is a computing lecturer and has written several published textbooks on programming in java. In particular his expertise is in Genetic algorithms which typically are useful in solution optimisation coding.

I'd suggest we setup a new project on a svn repository and grant developer access to a limited number of individuals. We can then setup a new thread to discuss the project design, this might need to be a closed thread limited to the developers initially, of course it doesn't have to be on this forum and perhaps is better that as a design discussion it isn't here.

On the two config changes for ShockAndAwe/Rawr I'll commit them now.


Edit: On the Fire Elemental's I'm not in game at present so can't check. I added code to ShockAndAwe v4.30 that would enable our pet frame by default. It may well be possible to get the stats of the fire elemental from that pet frame.

Last edited by Levva : 04/22/09 at 8:20 AM.
#1845SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Moving from C++ to Java will be a performance hit but I'm not up to date on how fast the JRE is compared to regular binaries.
It isn't nearly so bad anymore. The gap between C++ and Java has narrowed substantially. Just-In-Time-Compiling has taken care of most of the issues people had with java apps. Slightly more time load the app but they should execute just as efficiently as a C binary.
#1846SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3soulsever
forgive me if this has already been touched on but this is not something that has been included in the sim as of yet. I have up until uldar been having(making) the pallys buff my wolfs as a pop them with kings and might(they share grater buffs with War's). I did see gains from this ( have not do any hard testing on numbers thou) and was wondering if anyone had done any work with this already on how much you gain per sec of buff time aka dps gain if buffed with 30 25 ext. left on wolfs and if its something i should still be bothering with at this point.
#1847SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ruga
I'm sure you gain 2 pissed off paladins that have to rebuff wolfs every 3 minutes :P
#1848SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Regarding rewriting EnhSim:

1. A Java simulator will not be a lot slower than C++. I don't think the users will even see a real difference. Since Java 5 and later the JVM is pretty damn fast. (even 1.4 was decent)

2. If you want to integrate it with some form of scripting language, there are a couple of other ways to do it. Since Java 6, the JVM includes a scripting package named javax.script and there is also a package under apache named Bean Scripting Framework, which allows Java to call scripts.

Depending on what you expect this part to do, as Raut mention a simple XML might be enough. I can see however how implementing new abilities might require some form of scripting (all depends on the design of the app). Another way to do this, would be to simply combine an XML file and some Java code, where people can create a class (that extends some form of interface in EnhSim), jar it, add it to EnhSim and then define via an XML file the ability to use.

3. I don't think using a Grid is a solution. It overcomplicates the problem and a Java client should be fast enough for what we need. Not to mention you need people to run part of EnhSim a long time in order to distribute the load (if you want the Grid to be formed by the EnhSim clients)


And as others have offered I would be happy to help with a Java rewrite. Pretty much all the work that I do is Java (other than some annoying parts in Adobe Flex). I've been toying with the idea of rewriting EnhSim in Java for 1-2 months (especially during Naxx boredom), but I hate reading C code since it's a mess and for one person it is a pretty large project.
#1849SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Discozilla
I was lucky enough to get Wrathstone in last night's raid, is it possible to get that in the sim?
#1850SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Believer
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Maybe the option that reads "cast LS only if charges left" would be what you are looking for. I just set that to "2" and then put LS as the lowest priority making the assumption that whenever there is a free GCD it will be spent recasting LS.
In all cases while I've run the sim I've found that I'm able to maximize my DPS by setting the "cast LS only if charges left" field to 3. The difference in DPS between 0 and 3 charges, though, has never been greater than 4 dps.

I found it interesting, however, that increasing the refresh charges above 3 results in a net DPS loss. I tried setting the field to the max(9) in order to force the sim to refresh LS every time a free GCD was available. In doing so, I lost almost 100 dps.

My assumption is that refreshing LS constantly results in the GCD running into other abilities' cooldowns causing a net DPS loss. So, in ideal circumstances, we would want to avoid refreshing LS unless our charges are down to 3 or 4.

Does anyone have additional insight or a different experience with this?
#1851SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by soulsever View Post
forgive me if this has already been touched on but this is not something that has been included in the sim as of yet. I have up until uldar been having(making) the pallys buff my wolfs as a pop them with kings and might(they share grater buffs with War's). I did see gains from this ( have not do any hard testing on numbers thou) and was wondering if anyone had done any work with this already on how much you gain per sec of buff time aka dps gain if buffed with 30 25 ext. left on wolfs and if its something i should still be bothering with at this point.
The testing I did would suggest that they will get the full AP benefit from might ie: 550 AP = +39.29 dps for kings however only their strength will have any effect. Base strength is 331 with 178 from SoE totem (talented) they should get 50 str = 100 AP so in total those two buffs give them 600 AP = +42.85 dps.

So pros = +42.85 dps cons two pissed off pallys.
#1852SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
wakka
Calculating Ep values: Crash

Hi,
I just tried to figure out my Ep values, but all the time I start the simulation the enhsim.exe crashes. This happens after the Sim calculated the Baseline DPS. Whould you please help me out because I am really interested in some EP values for comparing items.
Here is my config:
### Saved by version 1.6.9 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           250
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   -1
ep_expertise                    -1
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   250
ep_dps                          20
ep_mana                         20
ep_spirit                       20
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              ST
rotation_priority7              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            mammoth_meal

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2,6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.41
oh_crit                         31.41
mh_hit                          11.34
oh_hit                          11.34
mh_expertise_rating             145
oh_expertise_rating             145
ap                              3862
melee_haste                     5.83
armor_penetration               3.0
str                             133
agi                             852
int                             534
spi                             156
spellpower                      1432
spell_crit                      23.67
spell_hit                       14.18
spell_haste                     4.48
max_mana                        12126
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        pyrite_infuser
trinket2                        fury_of_the_five_flights

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    lightning_shield
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            1/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
I am not sure if this belongs to some wrong settings or if it's just a bug.

Last edited by wakka : 04/22/09 at 5:33 PM.
#1853SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Is your EnhSim GUI pointing to the old .exe by any chance?

Also I noticed this:

mh_speed 2,6
oh_speed 2.5
mh_speed needs to be 2.6, not 2,6 (however I am unsure if that will cause a crash, bug out the results, or actually work)
#1854SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3IMB111
Originally Posted by Believer View Post
My assumption is that refreshing LS constantly results in the GCD running into other abilities' cooldowns causing a net DPS loss. So, in ideal circumstances, we would want to avoid refreshing LS unless our charges are down to 3 or 4.
Your first sentence is correct. You have to avoid refreshing LS early if there is a spell whith a cooldown lower than the gcd. But that doesn't depend at all from the number of charges left. If you have a free gcd and only few maelstrom charges, then refresh it. In the sim there is no possibility to check if another spell will be ready in the gcd.
#1855SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3soulsever
Originally Posted by Believer View Post
In all cases while I've run the sim I've found that I'm able to maximize my DPS by setting the "cast LS only if charges left" field to 3. The difference in DPS between 0 and 3 charges, though, has never been greater than 4 dps.

I found it interesting, however, that increasing the refresh charges above 3 results in a net DPS loss. I tried setting the field to the max(9) in order to force the sim to refresh LS every time a free GCD was available. In doing so, I lost almost 100 dps.

My assumption is that refreshing LS constantly results in the GCD running into other abilities' cooldowns causing a net DPS loss. So, in ideal circumstances, we would want to avoid refreshing LS unless our charges are down to 3 or 4.

Does anyone have additional insight or a different experience with this?

well you should not be seeing a decrees imo from refreshing when ever you have a extra CD in game. but what i image in your running into on the sim is that its seeing SS/LL as on cool down even if it only has say .1 sec left there by adding 1.5 additional cd to your LL/SS. while i cannot conferm this(since i have not seen the code for that part) i have also not seen an option in it to not do LS if the cool down on LL/SS is shorter then 1.5 sec less could have over looked it.

also i find that the highest dps rotion in my sims consitently with diffrent specs and gear lvls has always been

5_lb
ES
4_lb
SS
LL
SR
LS

but i find most people running sims with

5_LB
ES
SS
LL
SR
LS
#1856SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Believer
Originally Posted by IMB111 View Post
Your first sentence is correct. You have to avoid refreshing LS early if there is a spell whith a cooldown lower than the gcd. But that doesn't depend at all from the number of charges left. If you have a free gcd and only few maelstrom charges, then refresh it. In the sim there is no possibility to check if another spell will be ready in the gcd.
I think I got bit by my own wording there. In an ideal situation where we can be confident we won't clip any other cooldowns, I agree with you. However, given the hectic nature of Enhancement DPS combined with latency and human reaction time, unnecessarily refreshing LS when you have almost full charges could result in accidentally dropping your DPS by clipping more important DPS CDs or unexpected Maelstrom procs. I meant to suggest that it would seem to be wasteful to refresh your LS before reaching a more "critical" number of charges as it increases the risk of a mistake.
#1857SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3wakka
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Is your EnhSim GUI pointing to the old .exe by any chance?

Also I noticed this:



mh_speed needs to be 2.6, not 2,6 (however I am unsure if that will cause a crash, bug out the results, or actually work)
My GUI points to the 1.69 .exe and the failure remains after changing the mh_speed to 2.6.
Could there be any other source for errors?
#1858SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Fcukstar
Quick question, what exactly is "ES_SS" in the rotation section of the sim?
#1859SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
Originally Posted by Fcukstar View Post
Quick question, what exactly is "ES_SS" in the rotation section of the sim?
Earth Shock on the condition that the Stormstrike debuff is active on target. Otherwise it is skipped over.
#1860SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3IMB111
Originally Posted by Believer View Post
I think I got bit by my own wording there. In an ideal situation where we can be confident we won't clip any other cooldowns, I agree with you. However, given the hectic nature of Enhancement DPS combined with latency and human reaction time, unnecessarily refreshing LS when you have almost full charges could result in accidentally dropping your DPS by clipping more important DPS CDs or unexpected Maelstrom procs. I meant to suggest that it would seem to be wasteful to refresh your LS before reaching a more "critical" number of charges as it increases the risk of a mistake.
With Addons like Shockandawe you can clearly see if you have enough time to refresh your LS. If you wait till you have only a few charges left it can happen that the shield wears off due to chainprocs and/or gcd issues with other spells.
#1861SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Discozilla
Just a quick question about the sim.

When Calculating EP values, I get a lot of variance in the output. If I run the Calculator 3 times consecutively, I will see a range sometimes approaching 0.5 in haste. Agility and Crit are more stable, but variance still occurs.

I simulate at 5000h, shouldn't that be enough for Law of Averages?
#1862SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
soulsever
To show so numbers on what I said above about putting 4_LB in the rotation and getting greater gains then with out. I used a totem that would not effect either rotation negatively so used one that effects WF. I could see higher dps gains using a totem like totem of Hex.

Input

### Saved by version 1.6.9 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    3
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              MW4_LB
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              MT
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              SR
rotation_priority8              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

DPS with 4_LB.

EnhSim version 1.6.9

................................................................................


MH:
miss                1181832        9.45%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2999786        23.99%
hit                 2673171        21.38%
crit                5648114        45.17%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.55%
procs/swings        14.28%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2147676        51.79%
crit                1999230        48.21%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1043368        51.82%
crit                970244         48.18%

OH:
miss                1178822        9.43%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2995520        23.96%
hit                 2676599        21.41%
crit                5651962        45.21%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 9556815        60.51%
crit                6236066        39.49%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1044380        51.87%
crit                969232         48.13%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1656938        60.52%
crit                1080810        39.48%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1270242        51.74%
crit                1184946        48.26%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1889801        60.56%
crit                1230949        39.44%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2339851        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 47.98

flurry uptime                  93.77%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   79.04%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.25%
oh enchant uptime              37.45%
trinket1 uptime                20.64%
trinket2 uptime                17.90%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1875.20   29.5%     83.35
windfury            770.72    12.12%    6.91
flametongue         555.27    8.74%     52.64
stormstrike         347.21    5.46%     6.71      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           288.16    4.53%     8.18      16.59     9.67%
magma totem         556.52    8.75%     2.91      54.04     31.48%
earth shock         637.58    10.03%    9.13      38.58     22.48%
lightning bolt      1034.09   16.27%    10.40     62.44     36.38%
lightning shield    291.83    4.59%     1.22      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 6356.57
MPS                 171.65
MP2min              20597.55
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 9.02s
simulation speed: 1994901x
Verses with out 4_LB.

EnhSim version 1.6.9

................................................................................


MH:
miss                1225226        9.43%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            3113007        23.97%
hit                 2814824        21.67%
crit                5836272        44.93%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.10%
procs/swings        13.86%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2172442        52.14%
crit                1994452        47.86%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1064043        52.21%
crit                973851         47.79%

OH:
miss                1225418        9.43%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            3113216        23.97%
hit                 2815718        21.68%
crit                5834977        44.92%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 9868552        60.54%
crit                6433258        39.46%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1065030        52.26%
crit                972864         47.74%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1632139        60.54%
crit                1063633        39.46%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1303270        52.13%
crit                1196735        47.87%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1621879        60.54%
crit                1057046        39.46%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2367254        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 49.42

flurry uptime                  93.48%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   76.11%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.95%
oh enchant uptime              38.27%
trinket1 uptime                20.66%
trinket2 uptime                17.96%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1949.53   30.87%    86.60
windfury            774.30    12.26%    6.94
flametongue         573.55    9.08%     54.34
stormstrike         350.92    5.56%     6.79      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           292.87    4.64%     8.33      17.00     10.36%
magma totem         559.25    8.86%     2.93      54.46     33.20%
earth shock         628.31    9.95%     8.99      38.39     23.40%
lightning bolt      889.54    14.09%    8.93      54.20     33.04%
lightning shield    296.07    4.69%     1.24      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 6314.35
MPS                 164.05
MP2min              19686.29
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 9.09s
simulation speed: 1979980x
Firstly what I find odd about this is that. The Ep values of the 4_LB rotation favor hast which i guess is not all that surprising considering its shortening the cast time of the 4_LB. More interestly thou is that fact is lower on average the value of crit rating by .3? Could this be contributed to the fact more LB equals having a higher up time on elemental devastation, but by so much?

Secondly shouldn't casting a LB disrupt you swing timer there by lowering you dps?

Lastly I have praticed this rotation for some time now since I started running the sim, but I find it becomes almost uncontrollable slop on some fights with hast modifiers. Most notably Hodir is a good example of such a fight. Is there a way it could be looked into to say for such a rotation in the sim to say. Have 1 in (X) 4_LB rotations skip to a 5_LB. there by counting for some human and speed of proc's error?

Last edited by soulsever : 04/22/09 at 7:03 PM.
#1863SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
All this talk about moving the sim to Java is great from a multi-platform perspective, but isn't that what Yo's old sim was? That took forever to run compared to the current EnhSim. Several posters seem to assert that the sim wouldn't be any slower in Java, but experience seems to indicate otherwise. Was Yo's sim slow because it was running from within a web browser?
#1864SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3zomghax
After running 1.6.9 in current gear, Haste is back to being worth about 1.2-1.3 EP for me. This is after I was seeing values over 2.0 in recent versions. None of the listed changes seem as though they would cause this though. Has anyone else noticed this?
#1865SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
All this talk about moving the sim to Java is great from a multi-platform perspective, but isn't that what Yo's old sim was? That took forever to run compared to the current EnhSim. Several posters seem to assert that the sim wouldn't be any slower in Java, but experience seems to indicate otherwise. Was Yo's sim slow because it was running from within a web browser?
Yo! had implemented the sim as a java applet. Java Applets and Java Applications are like night and day in performance.
#1866SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3andreasg
Wouldn't it be possible to have a server running, which interfaces with the current binary, which users could interact with through a webform? It could the output the result to the webpage. The calculations would be done on the server, and would require someone willing to host it like that.
#1867SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ruga
Originally Posted by soulsever View Post
well you should not be seeing a decrees imo from refreshing when ever you have a extra CD in game. but what i image in your running into on the sim is that its seeing SS/LL as on cool down even if it only has say .1 sec left there by adding 1.5 additional cd to your LL/SS. while i cannot conferm this(since i have not seen the code for that part) i have also not seen an option in it to not do LS if the cool down on LL/SS is shorter then 1.5 sec less could have over looked it.

also i find that the highest dps rotion in my sims consitently with diffrent specs and gear lvls has always been

5_lb
ES
4_lb
SS
LL
SR
LS

but i find most people running sims with

5_LB
ES
SS
LL
SR
LS
You should add MT and SW to your rotation though :P
#1868SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by andreasg View Post
Wouldn't it be possible to have a server running, which interfaces with the current binary, which users could interact with through a webform? It could the output the result to the webpage. The calculations would be done on the server, and would require someone willing to host it like that.
Why would we need something like that? There's absolutely nothing wrong with having each individual run the sim on their own computer. If they have a slow system and it takes 10 min to run instead of 2-3 min, oh well that's life. There's no reason to tack on additional layers of complexity to an already complex problem.
#1869SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Gondlem
Originally Posted by zomghax View Post
After running 1.6.9 in current gear, Haste is back to being worth about 1.2-1.3 EP for me. This is after I was seeing values over 2.0 in recent versions. None of the listed changes seem as though they would cause this though. Has anyone else noticed this?
I've noticed drastic changes to haste values as well. My EP value for haste dropped from 2.6 to 1.5 after changing one piece of gear between calculations. I did pick up some haste on the new item, but the adjustment seems a little extreme.
#1870SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Aphax
I've noticed something strange with EnhSim 1.6.9 regarding the simulation speed I get when using a different number of threads. If I run a sim for calculating EP values using a single thread, then the simulation speed is actually higher (elapsed real time 133.44s) than it is when using 4 threads (elapsed real time 194.38s), on a Core 2 Quad machine running Windows XP. I kind of expected it to complete the run close to 4 times as quickly (or at least not slower), but maybe I'm missing something. I should probably also mention that when doing a simulation run with 4 threads, all my cores are stressed to 100% according to task manager

This is the config I've been using:

# Sim settings
simulation_time             5000
simulation_time_combatlog   300
combat_length               6
report_count                80
threads                     1
min_lag                     150
max_lag                     300
simulate_mana               1


# EP settings
ep_precision                2
ep_base_stat                ap
ep_ap                       200
ep_crit_rating              50
ep_hit_rating               40
ep_expertise                -4
ep_haste_rating             40
ep_armor_penetration_rating 60
ep_spellpower               150
ep_dps                      10.0
ep_mana                     250
ep_spirit                   150
ep_mp5                      30


# Rotation/misc settings
mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count 7
rotation_priority1      SW      // Spirit Wolves
rotation_priority2      SR      // Shamanistic Rage
rotation_priority3      MW5_LB  // Lightning Bolt with 5 Mael. stacks
rotation_priority4      SS      // Stormstrike
rotation_priority5      ES      // Earth Shock
rotation_priority6      LL      // Lava Lash
rotation_priority7      LS      // Lightning Shield


# Boss attributes
miss                8.00    //%
dodge               6.50    //%
glancing            25.00   //%
armor               13083   
spell_miss          17.00   //%

nature_resistance   0
fire_resistance     0
frost_resistance    0
arcane_resistance   0
shadow_resistance   0


# Buffs (raid)
armor_debuff_major            20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor            5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff 0.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff              20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff        5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat        688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier  0.0/99.7
spell_haste_buff              0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff        5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff      5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff           13.0/13.0   
spellpower_buff               144/280  
spell_hit_chance_debuff       3.0/3.0 
haste_buff                    3.0/3.0    
percentage_damage_increase    0.0/3.0 
crit_chance_debuff            3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier               10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                 52/52     
agi_and_strength_buff         178/178 
intellect_buff                60/60   

replenishment       1
water_shield        0
mana_spring_totem   1
blessing_of_wisdom  1
judgement_of_wisdom 0


# Consumables (raid)
flask_elixir    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir -
potion          haste_potion
food            fish_feast


###############################
## ShockAndAwe EnhSim Export ##
###############################
race                 draenei
mh_speed             2.60
oh_speed             2.50
mh_dps               171.3
oh_dps               156.6
mh_crit              31.28
oh_crit              31.28
mh_hit               10.80
oh_hit               10.80
mh_expertise_rating  139.00
oh_expertise_rating  139.00
ap                   3880
melee_haste          4.92
spell_haste          3.78
armor_penetration    3.17
str                  129
agi                  796
int                  528
spi                  153
spellpower           1164
spell_crit           24.18
spell_hit            13.49
max_mana             12036
mp5                  0

mh_enchant           berserking
oh_enchant           berserking

mh_weapon            -
oh_weapon            -

trinket1             grim_toll
trinket2             mirror_of_truth

totem                totem_of_hex
set_bonus1           naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2           -
set_bonus3           -
gloves_enchant       -
cloak_enchant        -
metagem              relentless_earthsiege_diamond

mh_imbue             windfury
oh_imbue             flametongue

glyph_major1         windfury_weapon
glyph_major2         flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3         stormstrike

glyph_minor1         -
glyph_minor2         -
glyph_minor3         -


#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge       2/5
improved_shields          3/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         1/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            3/3
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      2/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5

convection                0/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             3/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             0/5
elemental_focus           0/1
elemental_fury            5/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/2
lava_flows                0/1
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                 0/3
EDIT:
Something else I just noticed while doing some more testing is that setting threads to 1 fixed some weird results I was getting and planning to ask about. For example, even though I have an OOM time of 0, mp5 would always get en EP value of around 1.0 when using 4 threads, with 1 thread though it is always close to 0.0.

Last edited by Aphax : 04/24/09 at 12:48 AM.
#1871SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tukez
EnhSim 1.7.0

Originally Posted by Aphax View Post
I've noticed something strange with EnhSim 1.6.9 regarding the simulation speed I get when using a different number of threads. If I run a sim for calculating EP values using a single thread, then the simulation speed is actually higher (elapsed real time 133.44s) than it is when using 4 threads (elapsed real time 194.38s), on a Core 2 Quad machine running Windows XP.
I found a bug in the Windfury cooldown random generator, it wasn't also thread safe. I made my own version to fix those problems using the same algorithm.

1.7.0
-Fixed multithreading bug with Windfury cooldown.
-Trinket Wrathstone added.
#1872SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zaurok
I have just tried the new Totem of Dancing Flame in the 1.9.6 sim over my current stonebreaker totem and I get a dps loss no matter what I try. I plugged the 2T8 set bonus and I still get a dps loss.

Stonebreaker > Dancing Flame


That doesn't seem right at all for an ilevel 128 totem beating a ilevel 226 totem... Whomever designs these totems needs to be shot...
#1873SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ruga
Originally Posted by Zaurok View Post
I have just tried the new Totem of Dancing Flame in the 1.9.6 sim over my current stonebreaker totem and I get a dps loss no matter what I try. I plugged the 2T8 set bonus and I still get a dps loss.

Stonebreaker > Dancing Flame


That doesn't seem right at all for an ilevel 128 totem beating a ilevel 226 totem... Whomever designs these totems needs to be shot...
Well, it seems to be great for PVP.

So someone at Blizzard is on acid.

Our best PVE totem comes from PVP; while our best PVP totem comes from PVE.

Pr0.
#1874SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Adain
Originally Posted by Zaurok View Post
Stonebreaker > Dancing Flame


That doesn't seem right at all for an ilevel 128 totem beating a ilevel 226 totem... Whomever designs these totems needs to be shot...
I'm getting similar results when simming this, personally I don't do anything pvp related but I'm taking the gladiator totems into account anyway. I've been using naxx_melee_4 as set bonus, done some tests simming with worldbreaker_battlegear_4 but that had no impact on the results when looking at totems alone.

[Deadly Gladiator's Totem of Indomitability] > [Hateful Gladiator's Totem of Indomitability] > [Savage Gladiator's Totem of Indomitability] = [Totem of Dueling] > [Stonebreaker's Totem] > [Totem of the Dancing Flame] > [Totem of Splintering]

I'll get back into my box now and continue to be dissapointed with totems being the non-pvper that I am.
#1875SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Fcukstar
I noticed that once we acquire four piece tier 8, [Totem of Hex] seems to top [Totem of Dueling] when simmed. Just though you should include that in your list, Adain =].
#1876SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Fcukstar View Post
I noticed that once we acquire four piece tier 8, [Totem of Hex] seems to top [Totem of Dueling] when simmed. Just though you should include that in your list, Adain =].
Logically since they were equal pre-T8, adding a set bonus that increases the % of your total damage coming from LB and CL will tilt the favour to Hex.
#1877SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
rarefy
EP Expertise goes past cap

Hello,

I have been searching all morning for what I missed, but I can't find why EnhSim is reporting 107 Expertise Rating as Cap. If I change it to 108 it warns in the info window
EP Expertise goes past cap with MH or OH.

If
new expertise rating required to cap expertise is reduced to 140 due to the 9 expertise gain from unleashed rage 3/3.
from Shaman: Enhancement
then what would make the sim tell me im over?

Last edited by rarefy : 04/24/09 at 6:17 PM.
#1878SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3soulsever
Originally Posted by rarefy View Post
Hello,

I have been searching all morning for what I missed, but I can't find why EnhSim is reporting 107 Expertise Rating as Cap. If I change it to 108 it warns in the info window
EP Expertise goes past cap with MH or OH.

If
from Shaman: Enhancement
then what would make the sim tell me im over?

Thanks for your time,
Chug
Possibly check to make sure you have not selected orc with axes in MH/OH? That would set the the value about where your seeing it. With out a Settings Log its hard to say thou.
#1879SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Sigh, this problem keeps showing up. It is not that your expertise is over the cap, but rather that the expertise you have + the expertise EP range goes over the cap.

Read EnhSim Caps for more info.

All this assumes that you have the right config with 3/3 in UR and not 5/5 which could mess it up also.
#1880SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rarefy
I used the default config from the 1.7 version and then pasted the values from ShockAndAwe using the [Copy from Clipboard] button. I have dranei slected and have 3/3 UR. Im using the default caps from the original config file. I will raise them and see if I can get the message to go away.

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES_SS
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            snapper_extreme

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         29.61
oh_crit                         29.61
mh_hit                          10.92
oh_hit                          10.92
mh_expertise_rating             111.00
oh_expertise_rating             111.00
ap                              3228
melee_haste                     7.02
armor_penetration               1.95
str                             131
agi                             698
int                             466
spi                             155
spellpower                      968
spell_crit                      23.31
spell_hit                       13.65
spell_haste                     5.40
max_mana                        11106
mp5                             3

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      2673

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        44253
trinket2                        40684

totem                           40710

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#1881SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rarefy
BTW, this happens if I load the supplied config.txt, config_lvl80.txt. Only diffrence is the wording in the message.

With the included config files it reports:
MH and OH expertise are over the cap. EP expertise will be skipped.
And with my current stats it says:
EP expertise goes past cap with MH.
EP expertise goes past cap with OH.

This happens on load of files with out doing any simulation.
#1882SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by rarefy View Post
BTW, this happens if I load the supplied config.txt, config_lvl80.txt. Only diffrence is the wording in the message.

With the included config files it reports:
MH and OH expertise are over the cap. EP expertise will be skipped.
And with my current stats it says:
EP expertise goes past cap with MH.
EP expertise goes past cap with OH.

This happens on load of files with out doing any simulation.
You need to stop posting and actually read what people have told you. You also need to take a minute and read the information on the wiki site too.

Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Sigh, this problem keeps showing up. It is not that your expertise is over the cap, but rather that the expertise you have + the expertise EP range goes over the cap.

Read EnhSim Caps for more info.

All this assumes that you have the right config with 3/3 in UR and not 5/5 which could mess it up also.
He posted this in response to your post. He answered your question and even gave you a link to a place where you can get more information on what the sim is telling you and why it is correct and not bugged in any way. So after he posted that why did you need to not only post but double-post (there is an edit button for a reason - use it) after it? Not only after it but 2 hours later so it's not a case of you posting immediately after and not realizing that people had already tried to help you.

Did you follow the link and read everything there and still don't understand?

I'll try to make it simple for you in case you really did follow that link and just still don't get it.

Expertise Cap is 140 rating.
1 Expertise = 8.197 Expertise Rating.
EP range is 4 expertise = 32.788 expertise rating.
111 expertise rating + 32.788 expertise rating = 143.788
143.788 expertise rating > 140 expertise rating = you are over the cap with your EP value.
#1883SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
rarefy
Dup

Last edited by rarefy : 04/25/09 at 12:52 AM. Reason: Dup
#1884SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
rarefy
I did read what he posted. I did follow the link. Took me about 5 minutes to read and re-read to make sure I understood what he was saying.

Then I posted some follow up information that seemed to give more information to a programmer to isolate an issue.

Your post are always so helpful Rouncer. You have laid out a formula that adds up, but the part that I didn't and still don’t find reference too is

EP range is 4 expertise = 32.788 expertise rating.
OnosKT has 18 references to the term "EP Range" on that link but the closest I can come to a definition of for EP Range is

��*Add some amount(called EP range) to a stat. For example increase attack power by 100. Simulate the DPS again.
So it seems like a magical config value that wasn't there in the version before they changed the config file. I wasnt over the cap before, I havent changed gear and Wham I upgrade to the new EXE and im over the cap. All other things being the same, i thought the app was doing something wrong.

As a programmer I familiar with the frustration that open source programmers and forum mods have over questions they deem stupid. But I truly tried to find the answer before posting what I thought was a new bug.

Thanks for your time and sorry for pissing you off.


Edit* So the EP values are just stat padding? Is this just another way to play what if scenarios with your gear? If that's the case, the default config you get has the padding and to get true EP values are you supposed to set them all to zero?

Last edited by rarefy : 04/25/09 at 1:17 AM.
#1885SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Rarefy, go back and reread it again since you clearly have completely missed the section where he lays down in amazingly clean language exactly how EP values are calculated.

How EP values are Calculated

In EnhSim, the following method is used to calculate EP values.

* Simulate baseline DPS. Baseline DPS is the DPS value where every comparison is based on. This value is calculated with your current stats.
* Add some amount(called EP range) to a stat. For example increase attack power by 100. Simulate the DPS again.
* Do the previous step to each stat separately.
* Take the difference of each test DPS and the baseline DPS. Divide that DPS by the amount of stat added to get EP value.
* Normalize EP values.
Keep reading from there and he actually breaks down an example in a set of easy to follow calculations.

Then he goes further and specifically mentions your issue

Going over a cap when calculating EP values is going to result in lower and incorrect EP value. For example, we have our hit near the dual wield white hit cap. Then we increase hit by amount X and go over the dual wield white hit cap by some amount. Then we simulate DPS and divide the DPS difference with EP range to get the EP value right? If we had set our EP range lower, so we wouldn't go over the cap, just reach the cap, we would still get the same DPS from the test. Our EP range would be smaller, resulting in bigger EP value, because of the division operation(DPS difference / EP range). AVOID GOING OVER CAPS WHEN SETTING EP RANGES.
After you are done with the reading go take a look at your config file, notice the section with all the values starting with ep_ those are your ep ranges. They have been in the config file since the Sim came out and nothing has changed. If you had stuck any value for expertise rating over 182 into the Sim prior to 1.6 you would have gotten the exact same error. The only thing that has changed is that we now get 9 expertise from talents so the cap is lower, what the sim does when you set your EP range to a value that takes it over the cap hasn't changed in the slightest.
#1886SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bargle
Any chance [Hateful Gladiator's Totem of Indomitability] and [Savage Gladiator's Totem of Indomitability] could be removed from the sim? They were never actually added ingame - only the Deadly one has ever been obtainable.
#1887SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
crohnoes
I've been simulating for the past few days in an attempt to find the best gear, but I'm really concerned about my trinket results. Are Grim Troll and Mirror of Truth really that good? I would love to fit Blood of the Old God in somewhere, but I just can't make room for it, milk all the hit rating, and get superior DPS all at the same time.

I just want one of you guys to confirm my findings if you can, are we still going to be equipping Grim Toll/Mirror of Truth in BiS Ulduar gear?

I'm asking this because I've just looted Fury of the Five Flights. I don't know if I should keep it or ticket it to someone else in the raid.

Last edited by crohnoes : 04/25/09 at 3:44 PM.
#1888SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haalun
Originally Posted by crohnoes View Post
I've been simulating for the past few days in an attempt to find the best gear, but I'm really concerned about my trinket results. Are Grim Troll and Mirror of Truth really that good? I would love to fit Blood of the Old God in somewhere, but I just can't make room for it, milk all the hit rating, and get superior DPS all at the same time.

I just want one of you guys to confirm my findings if you can, are we still going to be equipping Grim Toll/Mirror of Truth in BiS Ulduar gear?

I'm asking this because I've just looted Fury of the Five Flights. I don't know if I should keep it or ticket it to someone else in the raid.
I think Grim Toll / Mirror of Truth is pretty much the best trinket pair from T7 gear.At least, I have been unable to find a better combo using Fury of the Five Flights. But many T8 content trinkets are clearely better. For example, Blood of the Old God should be a superior replacement for Grim Toll, even if it puts you over the spell hit cap.
#1889SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
I noticed a minor UI issue with food buffs that might be nice to change. Namely, they don't get taken into account in the info box warnings, although when you run the sim they are clearly working properly and the appropriate warnings are displayed.

I have 344 unbuffed hit rating, so i put in 13.11% for spell hit. I then select Snapper Extreme (40 Hit rating) from the food drop down. Now buffed hit rating should be 384, well above the spell cap with proper raid buffs. With the hit EP set to 1, I do not get the "you are over the spell hit cap" warning in the info box. If i change hit EP to 24 (bringing unbuffed + ep to 368 exactly) I get the warning. Why isn't food being taken into account at the UI info box?


edit: sim version 1.6.9
#1890SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3crohnoes
Originally Posted by Haalun View Post
I think Grim Toll / Mirror of Truth is pretty much the best trinket pair from T7 gear.At least, I have been unable to find a better combo using Fury of the Five Flights. But many T8 content trinkets are clearely better. For example, Blood of the Old God should be a superior replacement for Grim Toll, even if it puts you over the spell hit cap.
Well seeing as Mjolnir Runestone and Blood of the Old God fulfil the same niche as Grim Toll and Mirror of Truth, but with more of everything, I guess these two trinkets are contenders for best in slot. The real problems are that 1. all loot hasn't bee discovered yet, and 2. chardev is so slow at updating its loot list. It's proving hard to shed "excess" hit for more worthwhile stats.
#1891SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3fruust
weird output, again.

while simming my gear due to new weapons i got these rather peculiar numbers. can someone please explain them?

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6250.36
ap                        1.00      0.00      6250.57        0.22
crit rating               312.29    1.06      6299.34        48.98
hit rating                288.83    0.98      6279.90        29.54
expertise rating          -409.54   -1.40     6204.57        -45.79
haste rating              268.63    0.92      6280.58        30.22
armor penetration rating  276.00    0.94      6264.47        14.12
spellpower                172.57    0.59      6266.83        16.48
mh dps                    984.11    3.36      6283.91        33.55
oh dps                    480.76    1.64      6266.75        16.39
strength                  1.10      
agility                   105.34    
intelligence              72.34     
spirit                    1.67      0.01      6250.92        0.57
mana                      1.34      0.00      6251.27        0.91
mp5                       13.68     0.05      6251.29        0.93

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=312.29, HitRating=288.83, HasteRating=268.63, ExpertiseRating=-409.54, ArmorPenetration=276.00, SpellDamage=172.57, MainHandDps=984.11, OffHandDps=480.76, Strength=1.10, Agility=105.34, Intellect=72.34, Spirit=1.67, Mana=1.34, Mp5=13.68 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=268.63&dps=984.11&mp5=13.68&mcr=312.29&odps=480.76&spd=172.57&Agi=105.34&mhit=288.83&Int=72.34&Spi=1.67&map=1.00&arp=276.00&Exp=-409.54

elapsed simulation time: 700000.00h
elapsed real time: 1033.14s
simulation speed: 2439166x
actual config
### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         6
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    -4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              LL
rotation_priority7              SW
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         33.34
oh_crit                         33.34
mh_hit                          11.44
oh_hit                          11.44
mh_expertise_rating             144.00
oh_expertise_rating             144.00
ap                              3918
melee_haste                     6.26
armor_penetration               5.52
str                             131
agi                             895
int                             523
spi                             154
spellpower                      1449
spell_crit                      27.02
spell_hit                       14.30
spell_haste                     4.82
max_mana                        11961
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        wrathstone

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      -
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge       3/5
improved_shields          2/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         0/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            3/3
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      1/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                0/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             3/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             4/5
elemental_focus           0/1
elemental_fury            5/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/2
lava_flows                0/1
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                 0/3
#1892SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zaurok
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
I noticed a minor UI issue with food buffs that might be nice to change. Namely, they don't get taken into account in the info box warnings, although when you run the sim they are clearly working properly and the appropriate warnings are displayed.

I have 344 unbuffed hit rating, so i put in 13.11% for spell hit. I then select Snapper Extreme (40 Hit rating) from the food drop down. Now buffed hit rating should be 384, well above the spell cap with proper raid buffs. With the hit EP set to 1, I do not get the "you are over the spell hit cap" warning in the info box. If i change hit EP to 24 (bringing unbuffed + ep to 368 exactly) I get the warning. Why isn't food being taken into account at the UI info box?


edit: sim version 1.6.9

I'm assuming because the melee and spell hit we enter is in % which is rounded down on the character sheet by the game. If you eat the food and input THAT % instead and leaving the food section empty, you'll get different results most of the time. It might be not 100% accurate the way the sim works right now but it's pretty close to it.
#1893SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Ruga
Ahoi

Could you add [Mjolnir Runestone] to enhSim please?
It gets added as number 45931 from Rawr if it has any relevance.

Ty

Edit: Wow, I received an "infraction" for 2 smilies? That's kinda sad.

Last edited by Ruga : 04/28/09 at 1:31 AM.
#1894SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Geist
recently when I ran a few dps sims with LL,ES,SS priority over the usual SS,ES,LL and I been receiving a dps increase of ~20dps on average.Was just wondering if I could get a second pair of eyes to make sure I'm not simply overlooking something?

ConfigFile:
simulation_time                 100000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    3
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1500
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    2000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              LL
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            dalaran_clam_chowder

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.50
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          82.9
oh_dps                          143.6
mh_crit                         28.31
oh_crit                         28.31
mh_hit                          10.37
oh_hit                          10.37
mh_expertise_rating             147.00
oh_expertise_rating             147.00
ap                              3343
melee_haste                     13.08
armor_penetration               6.58
str                             137
agi                             715
int                             508
spi                             161
spellpower                      1473
spell_crit                      22.06
spell_hit                       12.96
spell_haste                     10.06
max_mana                        11736
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  hyperspeed_accelerators
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    lightning_shield
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#1895SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Michmich
rotation_priority8              SR
simulate_mana                   1
Try without simulating mana or with a better priority for SR.

mh_dps                          82.9
It seems that you have a caster MH, what kind of results do you get with "ES,LL,SS" ?
Your windfury procs must suck, don't you have better results with a melee MH (and thus less spell power) ?
#1896SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Michmich View Post
It seems that you have a caster MH, what kind of results do you get with "ES,LL,SS" ?
Your windfury procs must suck, don't you have better results with a melee MH (and thus less spell power) ?
First off, way to answer a question that wasn't asked. You obviously have missed all of our class developments since WotLK came out. 50% of our dps is spells now which means a SLOW caster mainhand is a VERY good option. You still use WF/FT and sure your windfury procs will be less then with a melee weapon but when you are putting 6500 raid buffed AP through any weapon it will give you nice numbers and the Lightning Bolts and Shocks numbers will be that much more substantial. Real issue is that there aren't too many of them to select between.

[Wraith Strike] always sims really close (within 20 dps) to [Calamity's Grasp] and CG is 13 ilevels better then WS. If WS was a 226 weapon it would beat CG without much issue and if there was a 239 caster weapon with a 2.6 speed it would be BiS for us until 3.2 comes out.

As for SR being so low on the priority list, he is specced 2/2 Imp SS with JoW, BoW and replenishment selected so do you really think mana is an issue on any level inside of his simulator.


To answer his actual question, I really am not surprised by those results. They don't have to do with his using a caster weapon and they aren't demonstrating that he did anything wrong. What is happening is cooldown interaction inside of the Sim. Since the Sim is perfect in it's function it lacks the flexibility of Human interaction into a priority system. It can't know that ES is up in less then 0.2 seconds or anything like that when it hits another attack so what happens is the cooldowns interact in ways that we can't really see and that is what causes the dps gain/loss. It really has no relevance and should simply be ignored. He just needs to stick to the simple principle of using your MW-4/5 as fast as possible so charges aren't wasted and then hit abilities as they come off cooldown and his performance will be, for all practical purposes, optimized. If he can wait 0.2 seconds to hit ES instead of LL that will make his performance a better but that level of attention is such that he may end up standing in the fire and Dying will take a much bigger chunk out of his dps.
#1897SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Luc
Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
Logically since they were equal pre-T8, adding a set bonus that increases the % of your total damage coming from LB and CL will tilt the favour to Hex.
You forget that the patch also made the Totem of Dueling's haste rating 30% more valuable.

If they were equal before the patch, then the Totem of Dueling has become 30% better while the Hex has become ~20% better assuming 4pc set bonus (It's actually a little less than 20% due to a greater proportion of MW5LB's waiting for a global cooldown.)
#1898SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Luc View Post
You forget that the patch also made the Totem of Dueling's haste rating 30% more valuable.

If they were equal before the patch, then the Totem of Dueling has become 30% better while the Hex has become ~20% better assuming 4pc set bonus (It's actually a little less than 20% due to a greater proportion of MW5LB's waiting for a global cooldown.)
I made no mention of the patch, only raid/gear tiers. Hex was simming better (for me at least) pre-3.1. Post 3.1 they are equal. The set bonus then shifts that balance.
#1899SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by fruust View Post
while simming my gear due to new weapons i got these rather peculiar numbers. can someone please explain them?
I have had this happen once. It seemed to be a race condition where the thread that is supposed to do the attack power calculation is actually repeating the baseline DPS calculation. If you look at the beginning under "Calculating EP values..." there should be some evidence of this.

In any event, the net effect is that AP is valued near zero, and that screws with the EP ratios. Again I've only had it happen once, but it might be a lingering bug in the 1.7.0 release (sorry I don't recall in which version I hit the issue).
#1900SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
I've had that bug happen a few times. Normally only on the first run right after it's been started up. I repeat the run and everything works fine. One version awhile back had it bad so I just started running 100 hour EP runs first and then doing my real run and it was always fine after that first run. With the current versions it's been a very rare occurrence so I haven't really been too worried about it.
#1901SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Geist
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
First off, way to answer a question that wasn't asked. You obviously have missed all of our class developments since WotLK came out. 50% of our dps is spells now which means a SLOW caster mainhand is a VERY good option. You still use WF/FT and sure your windfury procs will be less then with a melee weapon but when you are putting 6500 raid buffed AP through any weapon it will give you nice numbers and the Lightning Bolts and Shocks numbers will be that much more substantial. Real issue is that there aren't too many of them to select between.

[] always sims really close (within 20 dps) to [] and CG is 13 ilevels better then WS. If WS was a 226 weapon it would beat CG without much issue and if there was a 239 caster weapon with a 2.6 speed it would be BiS for us until 3.2 comes out.

As for SR being so low on the priority list, he is specced 2/2 Imp SS with JoW, BoW and replenishment selected so do you really think mana is an issue on any level inside of his simulator.


To answer his actual question, I really am not surprised by those results. They don't have to do with his using a caster weapon and they aren't demonstrating that he did anything wrong. What is happening is cooldown interaction inside of the Sim. Since the Sim is perfect in it's function it lacks the flexibility of Human interaction into a priority system. It can't know that ES is up in less then 0.2 seconds or anything like that when it hits another attack so what happens is the cooldowns interact in ways that we can't really see and that is what causes the dps gain/loss. It really has no relevance and should simply be ignored. He just needs to stick to the simple principle of using your MW-4/5 as fast as possible so charges aren't wasted and then hit abilities as they come off cooldown and his performance will be, for all practical purposes, optimized. If he can wait 0.2 seconds to hit ES instead of LL that will make his performance a better but that level of attention is such that he may end up standing in the fire and Dying will take a much bigger chunk out of his dps.
ya I have ran naxx for months,but the weapon gods have not shined down upon me and I have to improvise on my mainhand.using the newest caster dagger as my stop gap until I can get a real raid weapon since it simmed well above my previous crafted mace and has been a welcomed upgrade all things considered.

so my results are just a matter of the sim being to good at what it does then.thats good to know,I mainly was just looking to see what kind of dps changes would occur by worst possible rotation from adding the /castrandom macro for SS,ES,LL into play.I've read how the differance isn't to significant but just wanted to doublecheck on my own conditions.

and yes my WF procs are less then average but it balances out nicely with Lightiningbolt as my #2 source of dmg behind white attacks,not to mention the increase to earthshock or even my magma totems tick ammount from having my spellpower buffed by 1/3 from just the weapon.
#1902SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Rouncer
I've had that bug happen a few times. Normally only on the first run right after it's been started up. I repeat the run and everything works fine. One version awhile back had it bad so I just started running 100 hour EP runs first and then doing my real run and it was always fine after that first run. With the current versions it's been a very rare occurrence so I haven't really been too worried about it.
Almost sounds like Tukez has a variable that isn't being initialized properly.
#1903SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3iconocclast
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
I'll try to make it simple for you in case you really did follow that link and just still don't get it.

Expertise Cap is 140 rating.
1 Expertise = 8.197 Expertise Rating.
EP range is 4 expertise = 32.788 expertise rating.
111 expertise rating + 32.788 expertise rating = 143.788

143.788 expertise rating > 140 expertise rating = you are over the cap with your EP value.

I suggest you try entering your cap of 140 and see that even that number incurs an error going passed cap; in fact anything above 100 will error the sim.
#1904SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
I suggest you try entering your cap of 140 and see that even that number incurs an error going passed cap; in fact anything above 100 will error the sim.
1. You really don't get it.

2. You are incorrect, not anything above 100 generates that behavior, anything over 108 generates the behavior. And here is the magic of why that is happening (again).

The Sim takes your expertise rating value (let's say 108 for this example) and adds to this number 4 expertise (this is NOT rating). So calculate with me

108 + 4 * 8.2 = 140.8

This number is over 140. Because of this the sim tells you that EP expertise goes past cap. And it does. It is not telling you that your expertise is over the cap. It is telling you that adding it's stepping function in order to calculate EP values would put that calculation over the cap.

Now imagine your expertise rating was 107. The EP value is 139.8 -> not over the cap, everything is good.

Edit:

You can get it to have 100 over EP expertise if your EP expertise step is 5 and not 4 which is by default.
#1905SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Eva
I've been using enhsim for quite some time now, and whenever i noticed a particular low DPS-figure in the output, I was able to find an error I made. However this time, no matter how I look at it, I can't find the mistake I might have made.

My problem is the white-swing and SS dmg. It seems to miss almost exactly as much as my mh/oh hit. Can anyone spot the error?

EnhSim version 1.7.0

................................................................................

MH:
miss                266294         10.53%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            630796         24.94%
hit                 442330         17.49%
crit                1189493        47.04%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.54%
procs/swings        14.12%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 410908         49.93%
crit                411998         50.07%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 192988         50.05%
crit                192637         49.95%

OH:
miss                266144         10.52%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            631282         24.96%
hit                 441310         17.45%
crit                1190177        47.06%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1663583        52.89%
crit                1481487        47.11%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 192767         49.99%
crit                192858         50.01%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 253283         52.96%
crit                225002         47.04%

Flame Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 952            52.19%
crit                872            47.81%
dots                7296.00

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 247454         49.82%
crit                249222         50.18%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 260782         52.91%
crit                232120         47.09%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 437383         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 47.75

flurry uptime                  94.61%
unleashed rage uptime          99.99%
elemental devastation uptime   78.14%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.24%
oh enchant uptime              37.54%
trinket1 uptime                20.59%
trinket2 uptime                32.37%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.18      0.08%
mp5                 17.76     8.19%
replenishment       34.80     16.05%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.92      4.11%
shamanistic rage    108.99    50.26%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         46.20     21.30%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               45.45     1.53%     84.30
windfury            18.51     0.62%     6.86
flametongue         567.58    19.09%    52.42
stormstrike         9.75      0.33%     6.43      35.41     13.50%
lava lash           309.09    10.4%     8.28      22.80     8.70%
magma totem         473.02    15.91%    2.40      44.65     17.03%
earth shock         550.10    18.5%     7.97      98.82     37.68%
flame shock         1.78      0.06%     0.03      0.36      0.14%
lightning bolt      789.64    26.56%    8.22      60.19     22.95%
lightning shield    207.77    6.99%     0.81      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 2972.69
MPS                 262.22
MP2min              31467.00
MRPS                262.14
Out of mana time    8.36%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 2.35s
simulation speed: 1534526x


### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    0
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    0

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              FS

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          163.3
mh_crit                         32.86
oh_crit                         32.86
mh_hit                          10.49
oh_hit                          10.49
mh_expertise_rating             141
oh_expertise_rating             141
ap                              3950
melee_haste                     13.32
armor_penetration               0
str                             131
agi                             921
int                             552
spi                             155
spellpower                      1459
spell_crit                      26.37
spell_hit                       13.11
spell_haste                     10.25
max_mana                        12396
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_the_dancing_flame

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            1/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Last edited by Eva : 04/30/09 at 7:40 AM.
#1906SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
You can find the answer on the enhsim homepage:
armor_debuff_major 20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor 5.0/5.0
The mechanic of armor debuffs changed to percentage based.
#1907SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
In any event, the net effect is that AP is valued near zero, and that screws with the EP ratios. Again I've only had it happen once, but it might be a lingering bug in the 1.7.0 release (sorry I don't recall in which version I hit the issue).
I've just had this happen to me today in 1.7.0. It calculated the baseline twice and thought the second calculation was the AP one. The second time while running it, all was fine (the output window showed 2/14 AP and then 1/14 baseline)

Edit: This should go in the EnhSim bug list obviously:

I'm wondering if people to whom this happen could say what system they are running it on, as that might help the person fixing it. In my case it's a quad core Intel on Vista. I wonder if the Quad Core might mess up the threading library or code.
#1908SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
I've had it happen on my system back when it was using XP and again since I've updated it to Vista 64. In both cases it was on a Core 2 Quad 6700.
#1909SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ankasunamore
Hello All. This is the first time i've gotten the sim to work properly (i think) so i was just wondering if you can help me see if i have done everything right. I'm really interested to know how much better armpen is then crit, as in a recent Ulduar run my main tank was say that he believed armpen was more important then crit for melee classes with the recent improvement of armpen.

Any help/criticism is greatly appreciated

Thank heaps
EnhSim version 1.7.0

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 2.66364% (69.8726 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana calculated.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit calculated.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6026.57
ap                        1.00      0.62      6150.05        123.49
crit rating               2.02      1.25      6063.94        37.37
hit rating                1.76      1.09      6059.19        32.62
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6026.57
haste rating              1.19      0.73      6048.55        21.98
armor penetration rating  1.65      1.02      6057.05        30.48
spellpower                1.07      0.66      6125.30        98.73
mh dps                    6.45      3.99      6056.45        29.89
oh dps                    2.60      1.60      6038.60        12.03
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.82
intelligence              1.82
spirit                    0.03      0.02      6028.90        2.33
mana                      0.02      0.01      6030.30        3.74
mp5                       0.39      0.24      6031.36        4.80

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=2.02, HitRating=1.76, HasteRating=1.19
, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.65, SpellDamage=1.07, MainHandDps=6.4
5, OffHandDps=2.60, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.82, Intellect=1.82, Spirit=0.03, Ma
na=0.02, Mp5=0.39 )
Loot Rank for WotLK
=2.02&odps=2.60&spd=1.07&Agi=1.82&mhit=1.76&Int=1.82&Spi=0.03&map=1.00&arp=1.65&
Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 13000.00h
elapsed real time: 53.39s
simulation speed: 876568x
simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              MT
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS
rotation_priority7              SR

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################
## ShockAndAwe EnhSim Export ##
###############################

config_source shockandawe

race                 troll
mh_speed             2.60
oh_speed             2.50
mh_dps               171.3
oh_dps               156.6
mh_crit              32.77
oh_crit              32.77
mh_hit               12.41
oh_hit               12.41
mh_expertise_rating  145.00
oh_expertise_rating  145.00
ap                   3784
melee_haste          3.69
spell_haste          2.84
armor_penetration    6.74
str                  131
agi                  936
int                  506
spi                  154
spellpower           1135
spell_crit           23.85
spell_hit            15.52
max_mana             11706
mp5                  0
mh_imbue             windfury
oh_imbue             flametongue

mh_enchant           berserking
mh_weapon            -
oh_enchant           berserking
oh_weapon            -

trinket1             darkmoon_card_greatness
trinket2             grim_toll

totem                totem_of_dueling
set_bonus1           - naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2           - naxx_melee_4
set_bonus3           - 
gloves_enchant      - 
cloak_enchant       - 
metagem              relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1         windfury_weapon
glyph_major2         flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3         stormstrike

glyph_minor1         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor2         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor3         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim


#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge       2/5
improved_shields          3/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         1/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            3/3
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      2/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                0/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             3/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             0/5
elemental_focus           0/1
elemental_fury            5/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/2
lava_flows                0/1
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                 0/3
#1910SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
CroMe
I'm not sure about this, feel free to correct if I'm wrong:

I noticed that this sim provides lower dps then possible when setting weapon speed to 2.6 if your character sheet says 2.48 because of 5.04 % haste. I often beat this sim in dps when I've just set weapon speed of calamity's grasp to 2.6.

If you use Glyph of Flametongue Weapon, you should add the 2% spellcrit (flametongue weapon) to your normal critchance aswell, just the same thing as stated above. i dont think that sim calculates this buff on its own. If it does i'd be very surprised.

I've set it like this:

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count		8
rotation_priority1      	SW
rotation_priority2			SR
rotation_priority3			MT
rotation_priority4			MW5_LB
rotation_priority5			SS
rotation_priority6			ES
rotation_priority7			LL
rotation_priority8			LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_mighty_thoughts
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.48
oh_speed                        2.38
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         34.31
oh_crit                         34.31
mh_hit                          10.49
oh_hit                          10.49
mh_expertise_rating             137
oh_expertise_rating             137
ap                              3973
melee_haste                     5.04
armor_penetration               3
str                             131
agi                             954
int                             532
spi                             155
spellpower                      1464
spell_crit                      25.46
spell_hit                       13.11
spell_haste                     3.87
max_mana                        12096
mp5                             93

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        darkmoon_card_greatness

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   5/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
If I'm wrong here, tell me please.

Last edited by CroMe : 05/01/09 at 8:12 AM.
#1911SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
If you have a 2.6 speed weapon, put 2.6 in the sim. It will calculate the true swing timer based on your haste (including buffs).
#1912SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
To CroMe

You are wrong, the sim takes care of both hasting your weapon and adding the 2% crit from flametongue. Simple test: Set your stats with FT glyph (without adding the 2% crit) and run the simulator for 10k hours. Now remove the glyph and add 2% crit to your stats and rerun the sim. Your crit chance for your spells should look virtually the same.

To ankasunamore:

1. Your tank is wrong. I have yet to see a situation where ArP is better than crit via EP. Your simming looks right, however I would increase the simulation_time to 10000. It will take longer but it will result in less variability in EP values. I would also advise setting simulate_mana to 0 for EP value calcualtions, and add ES_SS before SS in the rotation. Also add SW (spirit wolves) to your rotation, probably as first or second priority.
#1913SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3CroMe
Thanks for your answer onosKT

I dont understand how thar sim works then, but well
#1914SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Frostshockz
Is there a way to change gear in the Sim, or do we need to manually change stats?

What I would like to do is to sim out which of the T8 and which filler piece is BiS. Just so I am sure which items are at the top of my list.

I have always just manually changed the stats within the sim as I wanted different gear.
#1915SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
Originally Posted by Frostshockz View Post
Is there a way to change gear in the Sim, or do we need to manually change stats?

What I would like to do is to sim out which of the T8 and which filler piece is BiS. Just so I am sure which items are at the top of my list.

I have always just manually changed the stats within the sim as I wanted different gear.
I think you're looking for this thread.
#1916SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Frostshockz
Okay, I have never used Rawr, so I will test this out tonight.

Thank you.
#1917SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ankasunamore
Thank you for your help Onos. I to thought that Armpen wasn't better then crit, but is there a lvl that would be appropriate? i did read in the other thread that about 150 static armpen would make the new totem worth while. Probable the wrong place to ask that, so i might see what i can find out in the other thread.

Thanks again
#1918SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sansa
Originally Posted by CroMe View Post
Thanks for your answer onosKT

I dont understand how thar sim works then, but well

You're confused because you're probably missing the fact that you're supposed to put in your stats WITHOUT any buffs active. Including Flametongue weapon. So your stats would not include the buff from flametongue weapon since you wouldn't have flametongue weapon active when you input spell crit. Then when you set your glyphs t include flametongue weapon glyph and use weapon enchant-flametongue on offhand, the sim calculates the spell crit in.
#1919SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3CroMe
Originally Posted by Sansa View Post
You're confused because you're probably missing the fact that you're supposed to put in your stats WITHOUT any buffs active. Including Flametongue weapon. So your stats would not include the buff from flametongue weapon since you wouldn't have flametongue weapon active when you input spell crit. Then when you set your glyphs t include flametongue weapon glyph and use weapon enchant-flametongue on offhand, the sim calculates the spell crit in.
Nope, not really
I am confused because i can beat that sim in dps, if I change to normal weapon speed which should not be possible.
#1920SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Where are you beating the sim? On target dummies or a specific boss?
#1921SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by CroMe View Post
Nope, not really
I am confused because i can beat that sim in dps, if I change to normal weapon speed which should not be possible.
CroMe, put up or shut up.

I really want to see a WWS or a World of Logs report showing you beating the sim on a single target encounter where you are not leveraging Magma Totem by having it hit more then one target. Before doing that fix these values in your sim and reinput your stats without any weapon imbues or buffs active since that is the way the Sim is meant to be used.

Boss Armor - 10645
Glancing - 24%
Spell Crit Chance Debuff - 5%
#1922SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Saabu
I understand the reasons for the sim saying expertise goes over cap, and it not simming an EP value.

For using addons like Pawn, what is everyone doing to get around this? With my current EP values (expertise is a Zero) it is hard to compare items. For example, I am at the cap now exactly. If I drop any equipped item that has expertise, I go under the cap. So an item with a higher total EP value may not be the best if it is going to drop me below the expertise cap.

Does this make addons like Pawn unusable?

Last edited by Saabu : 05/02/09 at 12:54 PM.
#1923SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quirk
set your expertise in the sim to the value you would have if you were to unequip one of your expertise-laden items. when you calculate EP values after that, you will be under the expertise cap and you will be given a fair EP value for expertise.

for me, expertise comes in at ~1.7
#1924SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Quirk View Post
set your expertise in the sim to the value you would have if you were to unequip one of your expertise-laden items. when you calculate EP values after that, you will be under the expertise cap and you will be given a fair EP value for expertise.

for me, expertise comes in at ~1.7
No, that's a bad way to do it since you obviously didn't remove enough Expertise to get under the dodge cap. Expertise should be between 2.5 and 3.0EP in value if you are uncapped.

Two options

1. Run your EP values using a negative number. Remove the minus symbol from the EP value and use that value.

2. Normalize Expertise to 2 considering you will Gem to the cap and if an item has expertise you can gem for more AP instead.
#1925SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Saabu
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Two options

1. Run your EP values using a negative number. Remove the minus symbol from the EP value and use that value.

2. Normalize Expertise to 2 considering you will Gem to the cap and if an item has expertise you can gem for more AP instead.
Option 1: Can you clarify how I would do this? Simply switch the expertise rating I input to a negative value? I.e, -145

Option 2: How do I 'normalize' the expertise value?

Appreciated
#1926SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Saabu View Post
Option 1: Can you clarify how I would do this? Simply switch the expertise rating I input to a negative value? I.e, -145

Option 2: How do I 'normalize' the expertise value?

Appreciated
Nah, leave the ratings you input from your paper doll alone. The value that you will make negative is the one under the EP tab where it says Expertise. I use -4 for mine since I run capped. Then when you do your EP run you will get a value for Expertise like -2.57 just remove the minus sign and that is your EP value for expertise.

As for normalizing you are just working off the assumption that you will get as close to expertise capped as possible without going over and that you will use gems to get there as needed. Since you get 1 point of expertise rating for 2 points of AP on a gem you are just setting the EP value of Expertise to 2.
#1927SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Holyshyit
I am expertise capped too, however setting expertise to negative values under the EP tab seems to make no difference. I have tried from -4 till -20000 and the warning message still stays and expertise EP is not calculated. My config file below

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 12000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   -2
ep_expertise                    -4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         33.82
oh_crit                         33.82
mh_hit                          10.43
oh_hit                          10.43
mh_expertise_rating             141.00
oh_expertise_rating             141.00
ap                              3735
melee_haste                     6.86
armor_penetration               5.52
str                             192
agi                             815
int                             527
spi                             159
spellpower                      1394
spell_crit                      26.48
spell_hit                       13.04
spell_haste                     5.28
max_mana                        12021
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#1928SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Ultrin
Hey guys, just wondering if you could help me please, I've use Shock and Awe to get the stats for Enhsim, but I keep getting a message that it can't run it as there are errors (enchant not found, melee ans spell haste not found, set bonus not found). I've tried removing, adding and replacing a few of what I think are the right errors, but I'm not 100% sure on what I am doing. Could you take a look at my input and tell me what I'm doing wrong. Thanks

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              FS
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################



###############################
## ShockAndAwe EnhSim Export ##
###############################
race                 draenei
mh_speed             2.60
oh_speed             1.60
mh_dps               156.5
oh_dps               156.6
mh_crit              24.74
oh_crit              24.74
mh_hit               10.40
oh_hit               10.40
mh_expertise_rating  143.00
oh_expertise_rating  143.00
ap                   3392
haste                3.69
armor_penetration    10.31
str                  121
agi                  813
int                  467
spi                  145
spellpower           1017
spell_crit           17.06
spell_hit            13.00
max_mana             11121
mp5                  0
mh_imbue             windfury
oh_imbue             flametongue

mh_enchant           berserking
mh_weapon            -
oh_enchant           -
oh_weapon            -

trinket1             pyrite_infuser
trinket2             sphere_of_red_dragons_blood

totem                totem_of_splintering
set_bonus            naxx_melee_2
metagem              relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1         windfury_weapon
glyph_major2         lava_lash
glyph_major3         earth_shock

glyph_minor1         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor2         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor3         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim


#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge       5/5
improved_shields          0/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         1/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            3/3
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      2/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                0/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             2/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             0/5
elemental_focus           1/1
elemental_fury            5/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/2
lava_flows                0/1
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                 0/3
unleashed_rage            3/3
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      2/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                0/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             2/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             0/5
elemental_focus           1/1
elemental_fury            5/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/2
lava_flows                0/1
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                 0/3
It seemed to work grand on v1.6.8 but i recently downloaded v1.7.0, so maybe i've missed something.

Also, when I was entering these stats into v1.6.8 it was telling me that I needed spell power, again not 100% sure what I'm doing, so it may be something really simple. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Ultrin : 05/03/09 at 12:11 AM.
#1929SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
Configlvl80 file that is with 1.7.0 enhsim is old and it has several mistakes in it, config file with explanations seems to be current. Compare to that to see what you must fix, it is same issue as to what Rouncer replied last page.

Boss Armor - 10645
Glancing - 24%
Spell Crit Chance Debuff - 5%
#1930SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Yo!
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Two options
1. Run your EP values using a negative number. Remove the minus symbol from the EP value and use that value.
2. Normalize Expertise to 2 considering you will Gem to the cap and if an item has expertise you can gem for more AP instead.
Option number 1 is wrong and misleading.
Option number 2 is simple AND correct.

While optimizing with current raid itemization you end up in Case 1 90% of the time, 10% being strange luck of getting items with heavy expertise only (Case 3), case 2 is for new 80s:
Case 1: some of your gems are with expertise
This fundamentally means expertise EP = EP of other stats present on gems, otherwise you would not reach such situation while optimizing your dps, remember that gems are equal in terms of item budget which would lead to replacing other gems with exp gems. So, if you have expertise gems and hit gems and AP gems, exp EP =hit EP = 2.
Case 2: only expertise gems
This means that without all exp gems you cannot cover cap. If you end up in this case while optimizing -value of exp is indeed >2. This also means that optimal dps gear set returned from wowhead/lootrank with exp =2 is not covering cap. You have to manually increase its value until returned gear set will cover exp cap.
Case 3: no expertise gems
This means that you managed to optimize your dps while exp is inferior to stats on gems, otherwise you would have to replace gems. In this case you can start to lower EP value for exp beyond 2 and "true" value for exp will be reached just before cap is broken.
#1931SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Saabu
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post

As for normalizing you are just working off the assumption that you will get as close to expertise capped as possible without going over and that you will use gems to get there as needed. Since you get 1 point of expertise rating for 2 points of AP on a gem you are just setting the EP value of Expertise to 2.
If I go to the EP tab, and change the expertise value there to 2, it puts me over the expertise cap, as expected. I must be misunderstanding what you mean here.
#1932SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Option #1 shows the true value of expertise if someone wants to know how it compares to other stats. I find knowing the actual number has value to me, personally, since if there comes a time where it's value drops below another stat I want to know about it.

The person I was responding too had just been told that uncapped expertise had an EP value of 1.7 which is clearly wrong as shown by running the EP's using a negative value. Knowing the true value helps to ensure that people aren't dumbasses and stop maintaining capped Expertise.

I do like your simplified Cases though and, if it is ok with you, would like to incorporate that language into the TTT since it simplifies the concept and makes it possible for people to follow "rules" instead of requiring them to actually understand what the numbers are showing them.


Originally Posted by Saabu View Post
If I go to the EP tab, and change the expertise value there to 2, it puts me over the expertise cap, as expected. I must be misunderstanding what you mean here.
no, you aren't setting the EP value of expertise to 2 in the simulator. You are setting the EP value of Expertise to 2 in whatever program/webpage/pawn you are using to evaluate the actual gear.
#1933SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Jessamy
I think some people might be confused about terminology. The sim calculates EP values by using step values. The EP step value for expertise is set by default to 4 in the sim. This means the sim increases your expertise value (not expertise rating) by 4, and compares your dps with the new value to your dps with your current values. It then makes a calculation to tell you over that step size how much 1 point of expertise rating is worth in increased dps, presenting its findings for all stats in equivalancies to attack power. When Rouncer is saying input negative expertise into the sim, this means input a negative step size into the sim. The sim will then decrease your expertise, calculate dps with the new lower value, and tell you how much attack power you would have to lose to get a similar loss.

Think of it like calculating the slope of a function. Ideally you would use a derivative to find the exact value of the slope at the point on your graph. But if the function is an irrational plot of real world data, and graphs out pretty jagged, this won't provide a helpful prediction. So, you take 2 points on your graph that aren't right next to each other, and calculate the slope between them.

This works great for a steadily (if unevenly) increasing function, like the plot of armor penetration vs. dps. Hit rating has 3 points where the slope drastically changes (the yellow, spell, and white caps), and so the sim warns if the EP step size passes any of these 3 cusp points. Expertise rating has a point where the fuction plateaus, any value beyond this point providing no dps increase. The sim warns if your step size passes this point, and informs that increasing expertise won't add any dps, giving it an EP value of 0. But expertise is not useless, and if you're capped decreasing your expertise will hurt you badly. Thus, since EP is the slope of expertise over dps (as expressed as attack power), you simply find the slope of the function before the cusp point, which is done by inputting a negative step size.

Edit: I apologize for potentially adding confusion when my intention was to clarify. Some people were confused about what "negative expertise" actually means. Whether you use a positive or negative step size for expertise in the sim, whether your calculated expertise EP is 0 or -3, you should use 2 for your EP value for expertise unless you are far below the cap and can't reach the cap with gems. When you gain or lose expertise with a gear upgrade, you can put yourself back at the cap by changing gems at the conversion rate of 2 AP = 1 expertise.

Last edited by Jessamy : 05/04/09 at 9:51 AM.
#1934SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Ultrin View Post
Hey guys, just wondering if you could help me please, I've use Shock and Awe to get the stats for Enhsim, but I keep getting a message that it can't run it as there are errors (enchant not found, melee ans spell haste not found, set bonus not found). I've tried removing, adding and replacing a few of what I think are the right errors, but I'm not 100% sure on what I am doing. Could you take a look at my input and tell me what I'm doing wrong. Thanks

It seemed to work grand on v1.6.8 but i recently downloaded v1.7.0, so maybe i've missed something.

Also, when I was entering these stats into v1.6.8 it was telling me that I needed spell power, again not 100% sure what I'm doing, so it may be something really simple. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
You missed updating ShockAndAwe to the latest version. V4.33 will be released very very soon (ie: within hours) v4.32 is designed to work with EnhSim v1.7.0+

Originally Posted by Jessamy View Post
This works great for a steadily (if unevenly) increasing function, like the plot of dps vs. armor penetration. Hit rating has 3 points where the slope drastically changes (the yellow, spell, and white caps), and so the sim warns if the EP step size passes any of these 3 cusp points. Expertise rating has a point where the fuction plateaus, any value beyond this point providing no dps increase. The sim warns if your step size passes this point, and informs that increasing expertise won't add any dps, giving it an EP value of 0. But expertise is not useless, and if you're capped decreasing your expertise will hurt you badly. Thus, since EP is the slope of expertise over dps (as expressed as attack power), you simply find the slope of the function before the cusp point, which is done by inputting a negative step size.

However given that Expertise rating is now shown to be a smooth and not stepped as previously imagined is there not significant merit in changing this in v1.7.1 to be expertise_rating ep values. The default can then just be changed to 32.
#1935SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Yo!
Originally Posted by Jessamy View Post
This works great for a steadily (if unevenly) increasing function, like the plot of dps vs. armor penetration. Hit rating has 3 points where the slope drastically changes (the yellow, spell, and white caps), and so the sim warns if the EP step size passes any of these 3 cusp points. Expertise rating has a point where the fuction plateaus, any value beyond this point providing no dps increase. The sim warns if your step size passes this point, and informs that increasing expertise won't add any dps, giving it an EP value of 0. But expertise is not useless, and if you're capped decreasing your expertise will hurt you badly.
Correct.
Originally Posted by Jessamy View Post
Thus, since EP is the slope of expertise over dps (as expressed as attack power), you simply find the slope of the function before the cusp point, which is done by inputting a negative step size.
Wrong.

The "true" value of expertise with cap reached is not the one that is just before reaching cap.
It reaches plateau with the help of gems - it becomes as valuable as other gems.

EP value of 0 = undervalued. Generated wowhead list will have low expertise, thus forcing exp value to rise in next iteration.
EP value of 2.7 or whatever is calculated with negative step = overvalued, Generated wowhead list will offer too much expertise, which will lead to replacing exp gems with ap gems which contradicts their pretended higher value.
EP value of 2 allows preservation of the cap and allows focusing on other stats.
#1936SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cheysuli
In v1.7.0 108 expertise rating with unleashed rage 3/3 makes enhsim think that it is over cap. Still calculating EP gives positive values for expertise rating.
#1937SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Cheysuli View Post
In v1.7.0 108 expertise rating with unleashed rage 3/3 makes enhsim think that it is over cap. Still calculating EP gives positive values for expertise rating.
Good grief not another one. Tukez I think you need to change the wording. How about...

"If you include the EP step value your expertise will go over the cap"

and of course just replace expertise for MH hit rating, and OH hit rating. If they are clueless enough to be over the cap even without the EP step values then this should be a

"Even before including the EP step values your expertise is over the cap, recommend setting the EP step to a negative value"
#1938SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
I've been meaning to write a stub to the enhance TTT about exp, hit and EP but Yo! sums it up nicely.

The negative exp thing people do in the sim is only usable to prove that exp still is a superior stat to cap. Same with hit(spell softcap). For lootrank or wowhead you should always insert exp and hit as value=2 as Yo! explains. Using the actual EP value of exp is only usable when your gear is terrible and you are looking for gear to get closer to the cap. If using the actual EP value after reaching the cap, you inflate poor items with a lot of exp or poor gear with a lot of sockets. Same goes for hit.

Don't recommend setting exp to a negative value. Instead suggest to use the value 2 for reference when browsing gear sites. We're talking after reaching the cap here and thus a negative value is misleading.
#1939SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Flannelfoot
I'm having EnhSim crash whenever I try to calculate EP values. It gets as far as '6/14 Expertise skipped' and then crashes when trying to do the calculations for 7/14 (which i cannot for the life of me remember what is). All simulations however run without any problems at all. I have a fresh download of EnhSim 1.7.0 and the gui is linked to the correct enhsim.exe file. I have experimented with different ep steps on the various stats but I always get the same problem.

Here is a copy of my config file:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    2
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES_SS
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              SW
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.49
oh_crit                         31.49
mh_hit                          10.37
oh_hit                          10.37
mh_expertise_rating             140
oh_expertise_rating             140
ap                              3826
melee_haste                     9.32
armor_penetration               10.64
str                             131
agi                             795
int                             511
spi                             155
spellpower                      1147
spell_crit                      26.30
spell_hit                       12.96
spell_haste                     7.17
max_mana                        11781
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        45286
trinket2                        40684

totem                           40322

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    feral_spirit
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            1/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Any insight as to what is causing this problem is greatly appreciated.
#1940SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Are you running on Windows 7 by any chance? I have been having a similar issue recently on my Beta 7 install, where 1.7.0 crashes when it runs the first two EP values (sim works fine)
#1941SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eathir
I'm having some issues with reconciling with the output I get from EnhSim and was basicly wondering if something is wrong with the input. I seem to be getting very high values for hitrating, past spell hit cap (ranging from 2.9-3.1) where I'd expect to get values a bit below 2 atleast.

Outputfile for EP calc:
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2960.24
ap                        1.00      0.36      3031.61        71.37
crit rating               2.03      0.72      2981.92        21.68
hit rating                3.00      1.07      2992.40        32.16
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -2960.24
haste rating              1.80      0.64      2979.55        19.31
armor penetration rating  1.56      0.56      2976.96        16.72
spellpower                1.05      0.37      3016.22        55.98
mh dps                    5.38      1.92      2974.65        14.41
oh dps                    2.52      0.90      2966.99        6.75
strength                  1.00      
agility                   1.65      
intelligence              1.52
this is the config file related to the above outputfile:

simulation_time                 6000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         120
max_lag                         140
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2,6
oh_speed                        2,6
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         31.22
oh_crit                         31.22
mh_hit                          10.77
oh_hit                          10.77
mh_expertise_rating             143
oh_expertise_rating             143
ap                              3667
melee_haste                     11.81
armor_penetration               6.58
str                             129
agi                             868
int                             527
spi                             153
spellpower                      1100
spell_crit                      25.24
spell_hit                       13.46
spell_haste                     9.09
max_mana                        12021
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        44253
trinket2                        40684

totem                           40267

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    lightning_shield
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
It appears that trinkets/weapon enchants aint being written out as anything but numbers (DMG + MoT and Berserking enchants on both MH and OH)
#1942SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Um, you are not spell hit capped:

13.46 + 3.00 (misery) = 16.46 < 17.00 (spell hit cap). As such it is normal that your hit will have a fairly high value (Simply changing my hit to 13.46 puts me at 2.49 EP for hit from 1.40ish)

As for numbers - those are fine, I think they represent wowhead IDs and the sim treats them correctly.
#1943SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Utters
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Um, you are not spell hit capped:

13.46 + 3.00 (misery) = 16.46 < 17.00 (spell hit cap). As such it is normal that your hit will have a fairly high value (Simply changing my hit to 13.46 puts me at 2.49 EP for hit from 1.40ish)

As for numbers - those are fine, I think they represent wowhead IDs and the sim treats them correctly.
He appears to be alliance which would provide him with a free 1% hit which should cover the difference.
#1944SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eathir
Do I somehow need to add the 1% extra spellhit from racials? I assumed it got added through the race being chosen but that could be the cause.
#1945SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Flannelfoot
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Are you running on Windows 7 by any chance? I have been having a similar issue recently on my Beta 7 install, where 1.7.0 crashes when it runs the first two EP values (sim works fine)
Nope, running vista 64.
#1946SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Eathir View Post
I'm having some issues with reconciling with the output I get from EnhSim and was basicly wondering if something is wrong with the input. I seem to be getting very high values for hitrating, past spell hit cap (ranging from 2.9-3.1) where I'd expect to get values a bit below 2 atleast.

this is the config file related to the above outputfile:

mh_speed                        2,6
oh_speed                        2,6
The 2,6 will cause a problem it needs to be 2.6!!
#1947SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mengus
I think our EU bretheren aren't used to using decimal points.

Just a hint, when a new version comes out, try using the default config file first to do any calculations/simulations. If the default config file works fine, then something you're adding is screwing up the sim.

I generally will make a copy, and edit that with my current values, as much as it sucks to reenter data, sometimes it's safer.
#1948SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Actually I have tried on mine and the 2,6 seems to work fine.
#1949SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eathir
I'll rerun it with . rather then , for the values, I assumed the problem wouldnt be there as those values got taken straight from Rawr's export function.
#1950SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eathir
okies, just did a rerun of my sim using 2.6 rather then 2,6 as base weaponspeed, it does still provide the same results.
#1951SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nexaris
Hai 2 questions :
1.How that EP works ( what's about them ) - because i know they are calculation my stats to some dps points right ?
2. If one of my stat got EP >2 so i should stack it ? ( i read it on some forum)
#1952SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Eathir View Post

It appears that trinkets/weapon enchants aint being written out as anything but numbers (DMG + MoT and Berserking enchants on both MH and OH)
Both ShockAndAwe & Rawr now export item id's for trinkets, enchants, metagems, totems. This is so that you don't need to upgrade those programs every time there is a new item added to the game.

What should perhaps happen in EnhSim though is that it should warn if it doesn't recognise an item id. So that you know it's skipping that item.
#1953SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eathir
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Both ShockAndAwe & Rawr now export item id's for trinkets, enchants, metagems, totems. This is so that you don't need to upgrade those programs every time there is a new item added to the game.

What should perhaps happen in EnhSim though is that it should warn if it doesn't recognise an item id. So that you know it's skipping that item.
sweet.

Levva, do you know if the 1% hit bonus from heroic presence (Draeni racial) gets added when choosing race? Rawr has a option to activate the buff, but I can't find something similair in enhsim.
#1954SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eva
The 1% hit racial is taken into account in Enhancesim. I tried this on my Draenei shaman, which is slighty above the spellhit-cap, leading to the message: EP hit goes past cap with spells. If I would then select a different race, this message would disappear.

This leads to the conclusion that the 1% hit racial is taken into account.
#1955SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eathir
damn, that would have been such a easy solution, can't see another reason for enhsim giving me subspellhitcap EP's for hitrating.
#1956SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
OnosKT
1.How that EP works ( what's about them ) - because i know they are calculation my stats to some dps points right ?
EP stands for equivalence points. In order to calculate equivalences you need a standard base. For us (enh shamans), that base stat is AP, so everything is calculated relative to AP. When you get an EP of say 1.74 for agility, it means that 1 agility = 1.74 AP. Since items have stat budgets, this allows you to calculate how much EP an item has.

2. If one of my stat got EP >2 so i should stack it ? ( i read it on some forum)
Not exactly. First of all for gear (not gems or chants), it will depend on the total EP value of that item. Say I have a hypothetical item with 100AP and another item with 25 hit, and hit = 2.5 EP. The first item will give you 100 EP (AP = 1 EP always) and the second gives 75 EP (25 * 2.5). Even though the second item has a stat that has > 2 EP, the first one is still better.

For gems, you should generally gem for stats that have > 2 EP, since AP gems are 32, and other stats are generally 16 gems. If nothing is > 2 EP, then AP gems are best. This should go without saying but always take into consideration socket bonuses. The worldbreaker pants for example have a socket bonus of 12 AP (so 12 EP).


Edit:

I'm having some issues with reconciling with the output I get from EnhSim and was basicly wondering if something is wrong with the input. I seem to be getting very high values for hitrating, past spell hit cap (ranging from 2.9-3.1) where I'd expect to get values a bit below 2 atleast.
Are you sure that, that is the config file you are running? Because when I EP your posted config, this is what I get:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5599.34
ap                        1.00      0.55      5708.47        109.12
crit rating               1.85      1.01      5629.69        30.34
hit rating                1.71      0.93      5627.30        27.96
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5599.34
haste rating              1.72      0.94      5627.55        28.21
armor penetration rating  1.55      0.84      5624.68        25.34
spellpower                1.17      0.64      5695.19        95.85
mh dps                    5.31      2.90      5621.09        21.74
oh dps                    3.03      1.65      5611.73        12.39
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.66      
intelligence*             1.52      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5599.34
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5599.34
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5599.34
Edit2:

You are definitely not running the right config file. Based on your DPS values, you are running the default config file. Are you running it via command line or GUI?

Last edited by OnosKT : 05/05/09 at 9:58 AM.
#1957SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Eathir
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Edit2:

You are definitely not running the right config file. Based on your DPS values, you are running the default config file. Are you running it via command line or GUI?
Thanks, no I wasnt now that I looked it over, was using the command line option, going via the GUI with the correct path gives the same results you posted, thanks!
#1958SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Staticus
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
For gems, you should generally gem for stats that have > 2 EP, since AP gems are 32, and other stats are generally 16 gems. If nothing is > 2 EP, then AP gems are best. This should go without saying but always take into consideration socket bonuses. The worldbreaker pants for example have a socket bonus of 12 AP (so 12 EP).
Blue socket bonuses always cost 16 ap (or equivalent) though, as green/purple gems only have half their budget spent on dps stats. So it should only be used to activate the meta, for yellow socket bonuses it's a bit cloudier so the sim is your friend.

Also be wary of rating stats that go over 2.00, as they often change around with new upgrades (haste especially). I tend to just stack 32 AP gems (after hit/exp cap), as their value never changes.
#1959SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haalun
Originally Posted by Staticus View Post
Blue socket bonuses always cost 16 ap (or equivalent) though, as green/purple gems only have half their budget spent on dps stats. So it should only be used to activate the meta, for yellow socket bonuses it's a bit cloudier so the sim is your friend.

Also be wary of rating stats that go over 2.00, as they often change around with new upgrades (haste especially). I tend to just stack 32 AP gems (after hit/exp cap), as their value never changes.
The EP value of AP doesn't change because EP is normalized to AP: 1 AP = 1 EP by definition. However, the DPS value of AP per point can go up and down with your gear. This is part of what makes EP values for other stats fluctuate. If EP was normalized to haste instead, you'd think haste was steady while AP went up and down. If EP was just given as raw DPS value, you'd see all stats change in value.
#1960SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lucentia
Originally Posted by Staticus View Post
Blue socket bonuses always cost 16 ap (or equivalent) though, as green/purple gems only have half their budget spent on dps stats. So it should only be used to activate the meta, for yellow socket bonuses it's a bit cloudier so the sim is your friend.

Also be wary of rating stats that go over 2.00, as they often change around with new upgrades (haste especially). I tend to just stack 32 AP gems (after hit/exp cap), as their value never changes.
I'll usually try to use an [Enchanted Tear] to activate my meta, since it is usually worth about 24 EP (assuming 1.7ish for agi and 1.3ish for int)
#1961SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I was trawling through the EnhSim v1.7.0 code, which is how I can make Rawr a lot better due to my understanding some nuances I'd missed. Yay for trivialities such as bosses innate 3 levels difference = 2.8175% fire & nature damage resistance. Whilst looking at the code I noted that the Damage Reduction calcs for Armour pen still seem to be using the old calcs.

GhostCrawler gave us the actual in game ones in World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> 116% Armor Pen only giving 66%!?!?!?!

All Rawr models use a common code block implemented as follows :

        public static float GetArmorDamageReduction(int AttackerLevel, float TargetArmor,
            float ArmorIgnoreDebuffs, float ArmorIgnoreBuffs, float ArmorPenetrationRating)
        {
            float ArmorConstant = 400 + 85 * AttackerLevel + 4.5f * 85 * (AttackerLevel - 59);
            TargetArmor *= (1f - ArmorIgnoreDebuffs) * (1f - ArmorIgnoreBuffs);
            float ArPCap = Math.Min((TargetArmor + ArmorConstant) / 3f, TargetArmor);
            TargetArmor -= ArPCap * Math.Min(1f, ArmorPenetrationRating / 1231.6239f);
            
            return 1f - ArmorConstant / (ArmorConstant + TargetArmor);
        }
Forgive me if the newly revealed cap limitation is covered in the code elsewhere but I couldn't find it. So I thought I better bring it to your attention, in case this does need updating.


Edit: Whilst I'm on the subject the additional tests people have done now suggest boss armour is 10643 not 10645!!!
#1962SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
I am getting strange results from the sim.

I want to compare a CL (LB if CL on CD) with a LB-only priority sequence.

I am getting 6263.85 for CL-LB and 6285.56 for LB-only.
And that's strange, considering I'm not simulating mana.

Is it a bug of the sim or there is a reason for the results?

these are the config file sections for the tests:

rotation_priority_count		10
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3		MW5_CL
rotation_priority4		MW5_LB
rotation_priority5		ES_SS
rotation_priority6		SS
rotation_priority7		ES
rotation_priority8		MT
rotation_priority9		LS
rotation_priority10		LL

rotation_priority_count		9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3		MW5_LB
rotation_priority4		ES_SS
rotation_priority5		SS
rotation_priority6		ES
rotation_priority7		MT
rotation_priority8		LS
rotation_priority9		LL
#1963SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3St4ud3
Chain Lightning does less dmg, because it doesn't scale as well with your spellpower. So you should only use it if there are 2 or more targets.
#1964SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3zomghax
Chain Lightning has a higher base damage, but Lightning Bolt has a higher coefficient. At T7 gear levels and with a few raid buffs, LB will out-perform CL on single targets.

CL average base damage = 1042
LB average base damage = 765

CL coefficient = 0.641
LB coefficient = 0.794

The intersection point at which LB will start to do more damage on a single target is (1042-765) / (.794-.641) = 1810 spell power, easily achieved by a T7 geared Enhancement Shaman with raid buffs.
#1965SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haze
I have some questions about the Sim. I am starting to use it now, and i had some odd results:

I have already the yellow hit cap, counting raid buffs, even so, the sim is giving me an odd result, putting hit with more EP than AP, which i believe should be my priority after the hit/exp cap(dont have the exp yet).

simulation_time 5000
simulation_time_combatlog 30
combat_length 5
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 190
max_lag 300
simulate_mana 0

ep_precision 2
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 1.00
ep_crit_rating 2.18
ep_hit_rating 1.59
ep_expertise 2.80
ep_haste_rating 1.78
ep_armor_penetration_rating 1.46
ep_spellpower 1.11
ep_dps 5.95 Had some doubts here: When i calculated the EP values, they give me the MH EP and the OH EP... So what should i put in here?

ep_mana 0
ep_spirit 0
ep_mp5 0

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 0
bloodlust_casters 1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left 750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left 3000

rotation_priority_count 7
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 ES_SS
rotation_priority3 SS
rotation_priority4 ES
rotation_priority5 LL
rotation_priority6 MT
rotation_priority7 LS

miss 8.0
dodge 6.5
glancing 24.0
armor 10645
spell_miss 17.0
nature_resistance 0
fire_resistance 0
frost_resistance 0
arcane_resistance 0
shadow_resistance 0

armor_debuff_major 20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor 0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff 0/4.0
melee_haste_buff 20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat 688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier 0/99.7
spell_haste_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff 0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff 10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
haste_buff 3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase 3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff 0/3.0
stat_multiplier 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff 52/52
agi_and_strength_buff 178/178
intellect_buff 60/60

replenishment 0
water_shield 0
mana_spring_totem 0
blessing_of_wisdom 0
judgement_of_wisdom 0

flask_elixir flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir -
potion potion_of_speed
food blackened_dragonfin

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon ###
###############################################################################

race orc
mh_speed 2.6
oh_speed 2.5
mh_dps 143.5
oh_dps 143.6
mh_crit 28.84
oh_crit 28.84
mh_hit 17.34
oh_hit 17.34
mh_expertise_rating 18
oh_expertise_rating 18
ap 3461
melee_haste 4.12
armor_penetration 4.06
str 131
agi 748
int 453
spi 154
spellpower 1312
spell_crit 23.86
spell_hit 14.18
spell_haste 3.17
max_mana 10911
mp5 54

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue flametongue

mh_enchant mongoose
oh_enchant mongoose

mh_weapon -
oh_weapon -

trinket1 mirror_of_truth
trinket2 meteorite_whetstone

totem totem_of_splintering

set_bonus1 naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2 naxx_melee_4
set_bonus3 -

metagem chaotic_skyfire_diamond

gloves_enchant -
cloak_enchant -

glyph_major1 stormstrike
glyph_major2 windfury_weapon
glyph_major3 shocking

glyph_minor1 -
glyph_minor2 -
glyph_minor3 -

ancestral_knowledge 2/5
improved_shields 1/3
mental_dexterity 3/3
shamanistic_focus 1/1
flurry 5/5
elemental_weapons 3/3
unleashed_rage 3/3
weapon_mastery 3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness 3/3
improved_stormstrike 0/2
static_shock 3/3
maelstrom_weapon 5/5

convection 0/5
concussion 5/5
call_of_flame 2/3
elemental_devastation 3/3
reverberation 5/5
elemental_focus 0/1
elemental_fury 5/5
call_of_thunder 0/1
unrelenting_storm 0/3
elemental_precision 0/3
lightning_mastery 0/5
elemental_oath 0/2
lightning_overload 0/5
lava_flows 0/3
storm_earth_and_fire 0/3
shamanism 0/5




Please excuse me if im screwing something up, I just dont understand how my EP value of Hit can be higher than my AP value, i don't understand how the Sim can give me AP EP of only 1.00
#1966SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sansa
Originally Posted by Haze View Post
Please excuse me if im screwing something up, I just dont understand how my EP value of Hit can be higher than my AP value, i don't understand how the Sim can give me AP EP of only 1.00
AP, as already explained in a post just a few above yours, is the baseline used to calculate the relative usefulness of all other stats. AP is always going to be 1 according to the sim. Your hit being aruond 1.5 means that 15 hit = 10 AP. But you'll notice that with gems, for instance, there are 32 AP gems and 16 hit rating gems. So unless the EP of hit is over 2, you would always gem AP. and hit is still useful past the spell cap because of white damage, I believe, which is why it still has value, although not as much as before you hit the cap.
#1967SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Haze
Originally Posted by Sansa View Post
AP, as already explained in a post just a few above yours, is the baseline used to calculate the relative usefulness of all other stats. AP is always going to be 1 according to the sim. Your hit being aruond 1.5 means that 15 hit = 10 AP. But you'll notice that with gems, for instance, there are 32 AP gems and 16 hit rating gems. So unless the EP of hit is over 2, you would always gem AP. and hit is still useful past the spell cap because of white damage, I believe, which is why it still has value, although not as much as before you hit the cap.

Thank you very much for the explanation. Now everything makes sense. I am sorry for not reading the post before asking the question.

But What about the DPS EP value? Should i add my MH with my OH value?

Last edited by Haze : 05/07/09 at 2:05 PM.
#1968SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Haze
I just had an upgrade (got Hemorraging ring, the one with exp rating) and updated my stats to recheck my EP values, and since then, i am getting weird random results: sometimes all values comes negative (??) sometimes they jsut dont make sense, and they are being different everytime i run a EP check... What can i do to fix this?

Also, the EP value for Expertise is often showing as 0, or as < than 2, and i'm not capped (5.5%, expertise 22) so that also doesn't make sense...

Last edited by Haze : 05/07/09 at 3:10 PM.
#1969SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
ep_precision 2
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 1.00
ep_crit_rating 2.18
ep_hit_rating 1.59
ep_expertise 2.80
ep_haste_rating 1.78
ep_armor_penetration_rating 1.46
ep_spellpower 1.11
ep_dps 5.95
Simply put, do not touch the ep_[....] value sin the config unless you know very well what you are doing. For more info on what the ep_values do, check the enhsim wiki.
#1970SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haze
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
ep_precision 2
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 1.00
ep_crit_rating 2.18
ep_hit_rating 1.59
ep_expertise 2.80
ep_haste_rating 1.78
ep_armor_penetration_rating 1.46
ep_spellpower 1.11
ep_dps 5.95
Simply put, do not touch the ep_[....] value sin the config unless you know very well what you are doing. For more info on what the ep_values do, check the enhsim wiki.

So i don't ever touch the values of the EP bracket?
I should put the default values again? Doing so will give me accurate EP values?
I put the default values (including 4 in expertise to get it capped) but its still showing expertise EP over 2, and it's giving me very different results every time i run the EP check
#1971SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
1. Are you expertise caped? No - of course your expertise EP value will be over 2. And no, putting 4 in the ep_expertise in the config does not cap it (but I am too tired to explain what that does for the xth time - please read the enhsim wiki)

2. Set simulation_time 5000 to something like 10000 and values should stabilize. If not post your config, and I'll try and see if I get the same results.
#1972SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quirk
so, I got myself [The Masticator] and I would have expected a simulated increase in DPS over [Calamity's Grasp] but it doesn't look like it's going to work out that way. Even if I input identical stats (assuming TM has the same stats as CG) but different weapon speed values, the 2.6 always seems to win out over the 2.7. Is this because of flurry? ie; over time more swings will be awarded to the offhand. It was my assumption that the increased SS/WF damage would far outweigh that anomaly.
#1973SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Quirk View Post
so, I got myself [The Masticator] and I would have expected a simulated increase in DPS over [Calamity's Grasp] but it doesn't look like it's going to work out that way. Even if I input identical stats (assuming TM has the same stats as CG) but different weapon speed values, the 2.6 always seems to win out over the 2.7. Is this because of flurry? ie; over time more swings will be awarded to the offhand. It was my assumption that the increased SS/WF damage would far outweigh that anomaly.
This issue has come up many many times. Flurry is almost certainly the culprit but not for the reason you would expect. Basically with two weapons of the same speed they can become synced thus causing both weapons to strike but only consume 1 flurry charge. Realistically in the game itself, getting your weapons synced and keeping them in sync is more trouble than it's worth.

I believe for cases like this Rouncer suggested modifying the weapon speed in the simulator by .01. This should give you more realistic values.
#1974SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Haze View Post
I have some questions about the Sim. I am starting to use it now, and i had some odd results:

I have already the yellow hit cap, counting raid buffs, even so, the sim is giving me an odd result, putting hit with more EP than AP, which i believe should be my priority after the hit/exp cap(dont have the exp yet).


ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           1.00
ep_crit_rating                  2.18
ep_hit_rating                   1.59
ep_expertise                    2.80
ep_haste_rating                 1.78
ep_armor_penetration_rating     1.46
ep_spellpower                   1.11
ep_dps                          5.95                   Had some doubts here: When i calculated the EP values, they give me the MH EP and the OH EP... So what should i put in here?

ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0
Please excuse me if im screwing something up, I just dont understand how my EP value of Hit can be higher than my AP value, i don't understand how the Sim can give me AP EP of only 1.00
First PLEASE put code blocks around configs so we don't have to scroll through great long lists.

Second WHAT ON EARTH are you doing changing the EP config values, DO NOT CHANGE THEM IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Clearly you have no idea. You DON'T change the INPUT values in the config to what you get as the OUTPUT values, ie: the results, thats just clueless.

READ the documentation its very clear what the values mean, they are STEPS ie: the amount the sim adds to your current AP, Agi, Haste, Hit, etc to see what the dps difference is. So by changing the EP AP value to 1.00 you are saying do a calculation with my current Attack Power and get a base dps figure. Now run the sim again with ONE extra AP and get a new dps result. WHY WHY WHY??? Adding a step of ONE attack power is utterly meaningless and absolutely guaranteed to give you crap results.

Put everything back to the defaults and don't touch them again.

BTW you said you are not Exp capped??? Why on earth not? You cap expertise BEFORE you go for spell hit cap as expertise capping has a far higher effect on your dps than spell hit capping. Your post is bordering on the clueless and asking for a ban.
#1975SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Gak
While simming some new gear yesterday to decide when I can lose my Naxx 2 and 4 set bonus for the t8 ones, I had a question for the Enhsim developer.

If I have the 4 piece Naxx set bonus tagged in Enhsim do I have to tag the 2 piece set bonus also or does the 4 set bonus include the 2 set bonus? I do not want to double up on the 2 piece set bonus.

Last edited by Gak : 05/07/09 at 8:09 PM.
#1976SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Traumatism
I am having two small problems with Enhsim.

One being that I don't fully understand how to use EP Ranges.

Example: EP Hit goes past with spells.

I go into the EP tab and see the range for Hit Rating is 30. Do I decrease the 30 until I no longer see the message "EP Hit goes past with spells"?

Also I am seeing something strange with my EP when calculated which could be attributed to my lack of knowledge towards EP Ranges. No matter what I do the EP Value of my AP is lower then my Crit by a significant amount normally.

Example:

AP - 1.00
Crit Rating - 2.14
Hit Rating - 1.48
Expertise Rating - 3.05
Haste Rating - 1.55
Armor Penetration Rating - 1.73
Spellpower - 1.02
MH DPS - 6.70
Oh DPS - 3.28
Strength - 1.10
Agility - 1.69
Intelligence - 1.51

Now I assume AP would be higher point for point then Crit Rating. Is there something I am doing wrong? My EP Ranges are as follows.

Precision - 2 Decimal Digits
Base Stat - AP
Attack Power - 200
Crit Rating -30
Hit Rating - 30
Expertise - 4
Haste Rating - 30
Armor Penetration Rating - 30
Spellpower - 150
DPS - 7.5

I am normally simulating 5x5000 and then averaging the number for the EP Values.

Another quick question in the MH Expertise Rating Clipboard. Do I fill in the Expertise I have? or do I fill in the amount of Expertise I have.

Last edited by Traumatism : 05/07/09 at 9:10 PM.
#1977SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sansa
Again, why would you assume AP would be higher point for point than crit rating? Considering you have the choice of gemming 32 AP or 16 crit, it would be a little OP if AP was point for point better than crit.
#1978SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
bengali
I've been consistently getting a value for Haste larger than 2. Now significantly so. Am I doing something wrong?

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         1
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         150
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              FS
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LL

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.50
oh_speed                        1.80
mh_dps                          156.6
oh_dps                          143.3
mh_crit                         31.41
oh_crit                         31.41
mh_hit                          10.86
oh_hit                          10.86
mh_expertise_rating             146.00
oh_expertise_rating             146.00
ap                              3626
melee_haste                     9.99
armor_penetration               4.63
str                             131
agi                             790
int                             506
spi                             155
spellpower                      1087
spell_crit                      24.24
spell_hit                       13.57
spell_haste                     7.69
max_mana                        11706
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      2673

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        40256

totem                           40322

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
EnhSim version 1.7.0

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.71364% (44.9522 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5347.02
ap                        1.00      0.53      5381.23        34.22
crit rating               1.83      0.98      5392.04        45.03
hit rating                1.72      0.92      5374.57        27.56
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5347.02
haste rating              2.10      1.12      5384.09        37.08
armor penetration rating  1.67      0.89      5360.41        13.39
spellpower                1.07      0.57      5363.05        16.03
mh dps                    5.99      3.20      5379.03        32.01
oh dps                    2.62      1.40      5361.00        13.98
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.75      
intelligence*             1.38      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5347.02
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5347.02
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5347.02

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.83, HitRating=1.72, HasteRating=2.10, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.67, SpellDamage=1.07, MainHandDps=5.99, OffHandDps=2.62, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.75, Intellect=1.38, Spirit=0.00, Mana=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=2.10&dps=5.99&mp5=0.00&mcr=1.83&odps=2.62&spd=1.07&Agi=1.75&mhit=1.72&Int=1.38&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.67&Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 100000.00h
elapsed real time: 532.20s
simulation speed: 676433x

Last edited by bengali : 05/08/09 at 2:37 AM.
#1979SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Butu
Originally Posted by Gak View Post
If I have the 4 piece Naxx set bonus tagged in Enhsim do I have to tag the 2 piece set bonus also or does the 4 set bonus include the 2 set bonus? I do not want to double up on the 2 piece set bonus.
There was a discussion about this earlier - if you tag both bonuses, you will get double 2/4 piece set bonus. 4/4 set bonus already includes the 2/4 set bonus, so the answer is no, you do not tag both bonuses.
#1980SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Gak
Originally Posted by Butu View Post
There was a discussion about this earlier - if you tag both bonuses, you will get double 2/4 piece set bonus. 4/4 set bonus already includes the 2/4 set bonus, so the answer is no, you do not tag both bonuses.
I feared as much. Thank you for your reply.
#1981SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haze
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
First PLEASE put code blocks around configs so we don't have to scroll through great long lists.

Second WHAT ON EARTH are you doing changing the EP config values, DO NOT CHANGE THEM IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Clearly you have no idea. You DON'T change the INPUT values in the config to what you get as the OUTPUT values, ie: the results, thats just clueless.

READ the documentation its very clear what the values mean, they are STEPS ie: the amount the sim adds to your current AP, Agi, Haste, Hit, etc to see what the dps difference is. So by changing the EP AP value to 1.00 you are saying do a calculation with my current Attack Power and get a base dps figure. Now run the sim again with ONE extra AP and get a new dps result. WHY WHY WHY??? Adding a step of ONE attack power is utterly meaningless and absolutely guaranteed to give you crap results.

Put everything back to the defaults and don't touch them again.

BTW you said you are not Exp capped??? Why on earth not? You cap expertise BEFORE you go for spell hit cap as expertise capping has a far higher effect on your dps than spell hit capping. Your post is bordering on the clueless and asking for a ban.

I already know everything you said about yellow and exp caps, but im using the sim to discover something i DON'T know about my stats. That's why i wanted to cap these values. You shouldn't be so arrogant and just think about it and see what i was doing. The values i changed i really screwed up, i thank the people who told me not to touch them, at least they told me so with respect. I completely misunderstood the imput values, and now i'm understanding.

I don't understand how can i be asking for a ban for trying to get explanation about my doubts, as stupid as they might see to you, there might be other people with the same questions. I also don't understand the lack of comprehension towards a completely new WoW player trying to improve and understand a game with so many detais.
#1982SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Haze View Post
I already know everything you said about yellow and exp caps, but im using the sim to discover something i DON'T know about my stats. That's why i wanted to cap these values. You shouldn't be so arrogant and just think about it and see what i was doing. The values i changed i really screwed up, i thank the people who told me not to touch them, at least they told me so with respect. I completely misunderstood the imput values, and now i'm understanding.

I don't understand how can i be asking for a ban for trying to get explanation about my doubts, as stupid as they might see to you, there might be other people with the same questions. I also don't understand the lack of comprehension towards a completely new WoW player trying to improve and understand a game with so many detais.
It's because this is NOT the forum for explaining things to new players. This is a forum for serious theorycrafters to analyse and understand how various effects in game work and in this thread specifically to compare if that is accurately reflected in game. Detailed analysis, not how do I get the sim to run.

Unfortunately the last few pages have been taken up by newbie post after newbie post asking for BASIC details of how the sim works. THIS IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD and definitely not the purpose of this forum.

In order to try to be helpful I can suggest that if you want information and advice I'd happily answer such questions on the shammy forum at mmo-champion Class - Shaman which is much more suited to this sort of discussion. This forum is NOT for hand holding how do I do this questions. You are posting in the WRONG PLACE hence my frustration. Please read the forum rules at http://elitistjerks.com/f15/announcements.html

To the mods. Can we clean up this thread its getting seriously off message.

Last edited by Levva : 05/08/09 at 8:56 AM.
#1983SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
Visit EnhSim Homepage. Please, submit bugs and wishes on the homepage. If you have a problem regarding the sim, please read the FAQ and helps first, before posting here.
Well, for the threadstarter and author of this very usefull piece of software (Tukez) this is the right place for questions on problems with the sim (if they aren't covered in the FAQ or something similar).

In the first place this thread is for improving the simulator.

But Levva is right (even if he sounds like a choleric type): A lot of questions here are obsolete. You can find a lot of help, explanation and guides on the EnhSim page (EnhSim). Everyone should know how the sim works before modifying the config files.
#1984SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Originally Posted by bengali View Post
I've been consistently getting a value for Haste larger than 2. Now significantly so. Am I doing something wrong?
...snip
It is quite normal to get haste > 2 post 3.1 (I have personally not gotten haste over 2.00 but I know a number of people have based on posts) since melee gains 30% more from it.

On a small note: looking at your config you have a 1.8 speed OH. I highly advise changing it to a slow weapon. Since that weapon's DPS is only 143 you should be able to get the tournament slow OH and you should see a fairly good DPS upgrade.
#1985SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haze
Originally Posted by Peterle View Post
Well, for the threadstarter and author of this very usefull piece of software (Tukez) this is the right place for questions on problems with the sim (if they aren't covered in the FAQ or something similar).

In the first place this thread is for improving the simulator.

But Levva is right (even if he sounds like a choleric type): A lot of questions here are obsolete. You can find a lot of help, explanation and guides on the EnhSim page (EnhSim). Everyone should know how the sim works before modifying the config files.

I agree. I am sorry levva, I'll research the mechanics of the Sim before asking trivial questions in the future.
#1986SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3HRAE
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
It is quite normal to get haste > 2 post 3.1 (I have personally not gotten haste over 2.00 but I know a number of people have based on posts) since melee gains 30% more from it.

On a small note: looking at your config you have a 1.8 speed OH. I highly advise changing it to a slow weapon. Since that weapon's DPS is only 143 you should be able to get the tournament slow OH and you should see a fairly good DPS upgrade.
I'm also getting strangely high EP values for haste. It simed decent (~1.8) prepatch, so it's no surprise it performs well after, but I'm getting values close to 2.7 with everything else looking the same.
#1987SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Originally Posted by HRAE View Post
I'm also getting strangely high EP values for haste. It simed decent (~1.8) prepatch, so it's no surprise it performs well after, but I'm getting values close to 2.7 with everything else looking the same.
Without a config file, there is not much anyone can say to that. But I have never seen anything sim that high outside weapon DPS (except exp/hit before caps, and evern then they are within 2.5 EP I believe)
#1988SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Trollpriest
I also have been getting 2.7 haste value lately with my regular config. Not completely 100% on this but i believe it has something to do with the breaking of the t7 4set bonus?

Edit: Nah, it doesn't.

Last edited by Trollpriest : 05/10/09 at 4:47 AM.
#1989SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ultrin
Thanks for the advice you gave after my previous post, unfortunately after i changed the settings to the correct ones i'm still getting the same problem:

Set bonus  not found.
Set bonus  not found.
Set bonus  not found.
Enchant  not found.
melee_haste not found from config.
spell_haste not found from config.
Config is incomplete. Fix the above config options and rerun EnhSim.
This is my set up as of today:

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         100
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count		9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3		MW3_CL
rotation_priority4		ES_SS
rotation_priority5		SS
rotation_priority6		ES
rotation_priority7		LL
rotation_priority8		MT
rotation_priority9		LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################



###############################
## ShockAndAwe EnhSim Export ##
###############################
race                 draenei
mh_speed             2.60
oh_speed             1.60
mh_dps               156.5
oh_dps               156.6
mh_crit              25.66
oh_crit              25.66
mh_hit               10.40
oh_hit               10.40
mh_expertise_rating  143.00
oh_expertise_rating  143.00
ap                   3472
haste                4.96
armor_penetration    8.28
str                  131
agi                  812
int                  478
spi                  155
spellpower           1041
spell_crit           18.06
spell_hit            13.00
max_mana             11286
mp5                  0
mh_imbue             windfury
oh_imbue             flametongue

mh_enchant           berserking
oh_enchant           -

trinket1             pyrite_infuser
trinket2             sphere_of_red_dragons_blood

totem                totem_of_dueling
set_bonus            naxx_melee_2
metagem              relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant	     hyperspeed_accelerators

glyph_major1         windfury_weapon
glyph_major2         lava_lash
glyph_major3         flametongue_weapon

glyph_minor1         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor2         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim
glyph_minor3         - ## no useful glyphs current implemented in the sim


#############
## Talents ##
#############
ancestral_knowledge       5/5
improved_shields          0/3
mental_dexterity          3/3
shamanistic_focus         1/1
flurry                    5/5
elemental_weapons         3/3
unleashed_rage            3/3
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      2/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                0/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             2/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             0/5
elemental_focus           1/1
elemental_fury            5/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/2
lava_flows                0/1
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                 0/3
unleashed_rage            3/3
weapon_mastery            3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness          3/3
improved_stormstrike      2/2
static_shock              3/3
maelstrom_weapon          5/5
convection                0/5
concussion                5/5
call_of_flame             2/3
elemental_devastation     3/3
reverberation             0/5
elemental_focus           1/1
elemental_fury            5/5
call_of_thunder           0/1
unrelenting_storm         0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery         0/5
elemental_oath            0/2
lightning_overload        0/2
lava_flows                0/1
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism                 0/3
Thanks in advance.
#1990SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
I think you are pointing to an old EnhSim executable.
#1991SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ultrin
Maybe, but unless they've released one in the past day, probably not. I'm using 1.7.0, but i'll check again, just in case.
#1992SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paenor
Ultrin, it tells you exactly what the error is in the error message is if you read it. You are missing melee_haste and spell_haste from the config file. I'm not sure this is still the case, but for a long time the export function of SAA wasn't updated to work with the latest enhsim so it is(was?) missing things and doesn't work. It got to the point that I ended up writing my own standalone replacement because I got tired of manually putting those stats and my set bonuses in by hand. As an added bonus it let me delete SAA as it was the only thing I was using it for at the time...
#1993SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Paenor View Post
Ultrin, it tells you exactly what the error is in the error message is if you read it. You are missing melee_haste and spell_haste from the config file. I'm not sure this is still the case, but for a long time the export function of SAA wasn't updated to work with the latest enhsim so it is(was?) missing things and doesn't work. It got to the point that I ended up writing my own standalone replacement because I got tired of manually putting those stats and my set bonuses in by hand. As an added bonus it let me delete SAA as it was the only thing I was using it for at the time...
This is absolute crap. ShockAndAwe had a maximum of a few days between a new version of EnhSim being out and the export functions being added. The reason for the delay was that I was off on holiday, now if you are so intolerant that you can't allow someone a holiday who puts as much time into assisting others as I do, then I'm absolutely delighted you no longer use ShockAndAwe. I really don't take kindly to someone denigrating my work on a public forum by posting mis-information.

So really the fact that users don't bother updating to the latest version of ShockAndAwe is really not my fault. He is also using an old default config file plain and simple. Its easy to see...

armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 1260/1260

Should be percentages for instance and the ShockAndAwe export is out of date too. If he was using v4.34 he would have all the extra fields that were added IN CONSULTATION WITH Tukez. We specifically co-ordinated on the change so that users could have as smooth as possible transition to patch 3.1. We cannot control the randomness of users not bothering to keep their addons and applications up to date.

Last edited by Levva : 05/11/09 at 7:22 AM.
#1994SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Axekilla
I was also getting inconsistent EP values for haste. Ranging from 1.37 to 2.2 or so, with the same gear, same stats. This was in ENHSIM 1.6.8. I updated to 1.7.0 and now haste dropped back down to steady sub 2.0. I'm sitting on 4 pc t8, and insanity's grasp/vulmir.
One question I do have, every sim I've run rates dual vulmir as better than insanity's grasp/vulmir. And in some cases, CG is on par, or slightly better than insanity's grasp. does this MH just blow that hard? I'm beginning to regret spending dkp on it.
#1995SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Axekilla View Post
I'm beginning to regret spending dkp on it.
I'm probably going to regret responding to this.

Insanity's Grip beats the pants off Calamity's Grasp. Vulmir is roughly equal to Insanity's Grip since it really depends on whether you are spell hit capped or not before gems as to which one is better. Personally I would be happy with either weapon in my mainhand and wouldn't worry about the minor stat differences between them.

Upgrades for mainhand over either of those are the Masticator and Golden Dragon, so look towards getting one of those (Dragon being BiS) instead of worrying about snagging a second Vulmir.
#1996SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3zomghax
Originally Posted by Axekilla View Post
I was also getting inconsistent EP values for haste. Ranging from 1.37 to 2.2 or so, with the same gear, same stats. This was in ENHSIM 1.6.8. I updated to 1.7.0 and now haste dropped back down to steady sub 2.0. I'm sitting on 4 pc t8, and insanity's grasp/vulmir.
I am running a series of simulations (v 1.7.0) in my current gear, replacing my melee Haste value with every Haste value from 0% to 25% in 0.5% increments. So far what I am seeing is that there are a large number of "cold spots" between 8% Haste and 16% Haste where the EP value will drop below 1.5. After that it seems to pick back up again. I'm not really ready to post my results yet because I'm not done; even doing 5000 hour sims it still takes time to do 51 of them.
#1997SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Paenor
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
This is absolute crap. ShockAndAwe had a maximum of a few days between a new version of EnhSim being out and the export functions being added....
It wasn't meant as a dig at you, and I'm sorry if you took it as that. It definitely isn't your fault if people don't update your addon. I also did say in that post that SAA might have been updated since, but I had no idea because I don't use it anymore. From closer inspection of your changelog, you are right it was only 6 days and a number of versions between you bumping the toc to 3.1, and the revision to fix the export function.
I was also not calling SAA bad. I used it for a very long time and only stopped because I had a lot of features disabled, and had replaced others with my own that displayed the data more to my liking. As a result it felt silly to have it around just to export my stats.
Did you get set bonus scanning into it too? I don't see it in the change log. Do you want my function to do it? It's not overly large. Only thing is I didn't bother adding the itemIDs for the older sets, as I personally never planned on using them again. Not hard to change that though, I just didn't want to spend the time transcribing any more numbers than I already had.


Uhh, anyways in a effort to be more on the topic of the thread.., I've been seeing the same thing as you zomghax. My haste stays constant running a sim multiple times with the same gear, but jumps around when I change it a little bit. Currently it's weighted my lowest stat. Even lower than ArP. I assume from your post I can infer that you are making a graph? If so, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the trend on that one.

Edit: Any chance of also seeing what ability it is that's causing the coldspot as well? I bet it's because of windfury again...

Last edited by Paenor : 05/11/09 at 5:04 PM.
#1998SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Perty
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
So really the fact that users don't bother updating to the latest version of ShockAndAwe is really not my fault. He is also using an old default config file plain and simple. Its easy to see...

armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 1260/1260
Just an FYI, when downloading version 1.70 of enhsim, the config_lvl80.txt is using those values. config.txt is correct. Not a huge deal but could be causing some issues if people are still trying to use that text file.
#1999SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vlyxnol
Originally Posted by zomghax View Post
I am running a series of simulations (v 1.7.0) in my current gear, replacing my melee Haste value with every Haste value from 0% to 25% in 0.5% increments. So far what I am seeing is that there are a large number of "cold spots" between 8% Haste and 16% Haste where the EP value will drop below 1.5. After that it seems to pick back up again. I'm not really ready to post my results yet because I'm not done; even doing 5000 hour sims it still takes time to do 51 of them.
I also ran a series of these simultations but with increments of 1%. I found that their was a sub 2.0 EP Value Cold spot between 10%-22% haste value. As a result I've attempt to sit around 10% haste via gems. I also did the same thing with AP using 100 AP increments and found that only ArP goes up in EP and at 4400 ArP approaches the 2.0 EP value mark.

As a result of this data i've been attempting to hold exp cap, spell hit cap, 10% haste, 6% arp, 33% melee crit, 24% spell crit, and the rest has been back to AP Stacking.

Anyone else find different values for these tests or perhaps see a flaw in this reasoning that indicates we shouldn't go back to AP stacking at 1.5-1.6 weapon speeds while raid buffed?
#2000SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zensai
Missing Something?

I've been a long time follower of the Enhancement and Elemental threads on EJ. I've been recently using Rawr 2.2.2, and EnhSim 1.7.0. I simmed my current gear which, I'm trying to determine the best gem/enchant path. Rawr has been giving me bazaar results related to gemming. Here are the my EnhSim configs, and the EP value calculated. Its valuing Int way higher then any other stat.

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES_SS
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              MT

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         32.50
oh_crit                         32.50
mh_hit                          9.88
oh_hit                          9.88
mh_expertise_rating             151
oh_expertise_rating             151
ap                              3913
melee_haste                     7.73
armor_penetration               12.67
str                             125
agi                             853
int                             528
spi                             145
spellpower                      1173
spell_crit                      26.71
spell_hit                       17
spell_haste                     5.95
max_mana                        12036
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_the_dancing_flame

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41398

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   3/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Here are the EP results:
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      4750.82
ap                        1.00      0.50      4782.64        31.82
crit rating               2.29      1.14      4803.11        52.29
hit rating                3.25      1.62      4799.29        48.48
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -4750.82
haste rating              1.86      0.92      4781.27        30.45
armor penetration rating  1.77      0.88      4764.04        13.22
spellpower                0.84      0.42      4762.49        11.67
mh dps                    6.32      3.14      4782.26        31.45
oh dps                    3.32      1.65      4767.33        16.51
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.83
intelligence              4.32
spirit                    0.13      0.07      4757.48        6.67
mana                      0.16      0.08      4766.75        15.93
mp5                       6.29      3.13      4813.40        62.58
I have to believe there is something wrong with my config, but when I do a normal DPS Simulation with the same setup, it comes out accruate.

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1835.17   31.05%    78.68
windfury            752.10    12.73%    6.43
flametongue         523.28    8.85%     50.16
stormstrike         414.44    7.01%     6.74      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           350.70    5.93%     8.46      16.77     10.28%
magma totem         519.07    8.78%     2.70      50.27     30.80%
earth shock         611.88    10.35%    9.55      38.55     23.62%
lightning bolt      903.09    15.28%    9.68      57.63     35.31%

DPS                 5909.73
MPS                 163.22
MP2min              19586.73
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 39.77s
simulation speed: 905250x
Any help would be appreciated.
#2001SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lucentia
Even though your not simulating mana... you have your MP5 at 0... its possible that might be messing something up, since its also giving you very very high values for MP5

the DPS sim looks like it has properly ignored mana, but it would seem the EP simulation has not.
#2002SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
You are basically running out of mana in the view of the EP calculator. It is a bit weird since you disable simulate mana (and this is why the simulator runs fine), but it looks like the EP calculator does not take that into account.

That config has two issues - you are not using spirit wolves or shamanistic rage. Enable SW and SR in the GUI and put them at the top.

Are you sure you are using that config though? I've just run the posted config in my EnhSim and this is what I get

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5895.24
ap                        1.00      0.58      5932.48        37.24
crit rating               1.82      1.06      5944.02        48.78
hit rating                1.65      0.96      5924.02        28.78
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5895.24
haste rating              2.05      1.19      5934.57        39.33
armor penetration rating  1.75      1.02      5910.51        15.27
spellpower                1.00      0.58      5911.48        16.24
mh dps                    5.66      3.29      5928.17        32.93
oh dps                    2.95      1.71      5912.38        17.14
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.73      
intelligence*             1.41      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5895.24
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5895.24
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5895.24
#2003SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3zomghax
It's also giving you a value of 3.25 for Hit even though you've told it that you have 17% spell hit AND a spell hit buff in the raid. Sorry to state the obvious but something is goofy. Are you sure that the GUI is looking at the 1.7.0 executable? (bottom right hand corner)
#2004SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zensai
Yea, I'm positive I'm using that config, and I verified that I'm pointing to the 1.7 exe. Even the output says 1.7... Below is same config for me with SR/SW enabled.

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1835.59   29.74%    78.68
windfury            752.68    12.2%     6.43
flametongue         523.19    8.48%     50.16
stormstrike         414.56    6.72%     6.74      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           350.67    5.68%     8.46      16.77     10.11%
magma totem         519.17    8.41%     2.70      50.27     30.30%
earth shock         611.94    9.92%     9.55      38.56     23.24%
lightning bolt      902.33    14.62%    9.67      57.57     34.69%
spirit wolves       261.56    4.24%     0.33      2.75      1.66%

DPS                 6171.69
MPS                 165.93
MP2min              19911.12
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 20.54s
simulation speed: 1753104x
And the EP calc.

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6171.70
ap                        1.00      0.60      6210.27        38.57
crit rating               1.79      1.08      6221.23        49.53
hit rating                1.47      0.89      6198.35        26.66
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6171.70
haste rating              1.92      1.16      6209.96        38.27
armor penetration rating  1.52      0.92      6185.48        13.79
spellpower                0.87      0.52      6186.32        14.62
mh dps                    5.42      3.27      6204.38        32.68
oh dps                    2.75      1.66      6188.28        16.59
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.72
intelligence*             1.41
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6171.70
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6171.70
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6171.70
So does that mean there is a bug in EnhSim when your not using SW/SR for EP.
#2005SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Nope, my run was with your posted config (no changes to it). The fact that expertise was so high and that it was simulating mana suggests to me that something happened when the config was loaded.
#2006SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3grouch
Originally Posted by zomghax View Post
I am running a series of simulations (v 1.7.0) in my current gear, replacing my melee Haste value with every Haste value from 0% to 25% in 0.5% increments. So far what I am seeing is that there are a large number of "cold spots" between 8% Haste and 16% Haste where the EP value will drop below 1.5. After that it seems to pick back up again. I'm not really ready to post my results yet because I'm not done; even doing 5000 hour sims it still takes time to do 51 of them.
By just doing a rough EP sim, and I can already see this "cold spot", between 8% haste and 15% haste. I'd be interested in your results as I do not have time to do 51 5000 hour sims.
#2007SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Haze
I recently got Stonerender (1.6 speed, 178.8 DPS OH) and simmed it to compare my dps upgrade over Pride (2.5 speed, 143.6 DPS OH) and after various sims i discovered that trading Pride for Stonerender would give me 120 DPS loss. I did not see anyone giving such a clarified statement about OH Speed, and by stonerender being very superior to pride, i think it's safe to conclude that for Enhancement Shamans, there is ONLY slow weapons.
#2008SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Meta Gem bonus crit damage

From reading the description of Meta Gem damage it seems that it should change the crit damage multiplier for melee from 2 to 2.03 ie: physical crits instead of doing double damage (ie: +100% damage) they do 103% extra damage.

Is this correct?

If it is correct then the v1.7.0 of the Sim has a fairly serious bug as it is multiplying by 1.03 onto the existing 2.00 giving a physical_crit_multiplier of 2.06 ie: 6% bonus crit damage.

I've not properly checked spell_crit_multipler however the code for metagems does

        physical_crit_multiplier_ *= 1.03f;
        spell_crit_multiplier_ *= 1.03f;
So I suspect spell_crit would similarly suffer as I have observed values of 2.09 for spell_crit_multiplier.

If I have misunderstood the meta gem effect and the sim is accurate I do apologise in advance for the confusion. I'm seeing clarification here so we can get it fixed if it is an issue.




Edit: Check out [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond] if you click on the bonus effect you get to Increase Critical Damage 3% - Spell - World of Warcraft now note the effect :

Apply Aura: Mod Crit Damage Bonus (Melee) (895)
Value: 3
This is a side issue but does Relentless Earthsiege really only give 3% bonus MELEE crit? and not also 3% bonus spell crit? Has anyone tested this? EnhSim & Rawr.Enhance both assume 3% melee & spell crit and so both may be wrong, or Wowhead may be wrong.

Last edited by Levva : 05/13/09 at 7:55 AM.
#2009SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3IMB111
If the tooltip is correct then the formula in the sim is correct as well.
The wording for a dmg multiplyer of 2.03 would be "3% Increased Critical Strike Damage Bonus" like Lethality - Spell - World of Warcraft for example.
#2010SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
You can't put too much faith in tool-tips being correct. Small variations like that can be meaningful, sometimes not.

A test on live would be to calculate the theoretical max damage from a crit with a 203% multiplier and for 206%. If you get a hit within 203-206 the latter is the correct one. This probably means you should go in with an empty spec, no weapon enchants, no proc abilities and such to make the max values more complex to calculate.
#2011SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3MatsT
This has already been tested back at 70 and afaik the result was that the bonus increases the final damage by 3%, i.e. 200% dmg -> 206% dmg, 230% dmg->236.9% dmg. More information can be found for examle here.
#2012SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3cordelliia
Sim Results not Matching WWS Theorycraft: Crit vs. Hit

With a pre-Ulduar almost BiS gearset, spell-hit capped, Sim Results are giving values of Hit ~1.5 and Crit ~1.7.
This seems to match some of the other Sim results in this thread.

However, looking through a WWS parse, and calculating hit and crit effects yields a vastly different result: Hit is roughly 40% the relative value of Crit.

WWS parse used: Wow Web Stats

Percent DPS increase from 1% hit or 1 hit rating:
White hits:  1686 @ 793 avg (non-crit hits + glancing), and 1513 @ 1854 (crit), 816 @ 693 (glancing), 245 Misses, 58 Parries.

Avg non-crit white hit damage = (1686*793-816*693)/(1686-816) = 887

White hit weighting:  1854 @ .43 (crit), 887 @ .25 (normal), 693 @ .23 (glancing), 0 @ .07 (miss), 0 @ .017 (parry)
  Total:  1178

If hit is increased by 1%:
White hit weighting:  1854 @ .43 (crit), 887 @ .26 (normal), 693 @ .23 (glancing), 0 @ .06 (miss), 0 @ .017 (parry)
 Total: 1187
 %-increase: 0.78%

White hits are 28% of total DPS from that WWS.
Total Increase in DPS due to 1% hit increase: 0.22%

Total Increase in DPS due to 1 hit rating (32.79 rating = 1% hit): 0.00669 %
(above spell hit cap)
Percent DPS increase from 1% crit or 1 crit rating:
Firstly, calculate a formula for the % increase in dps from an ability when the ability (a) cannot miss, (b) is not crit-capped: 
Critical Hit: c  @ r, where c = avg crit amt, and r = crit rate expressed as proportion
Normal Hit: n  @ 1- r, where n = avg normal hit amt.

Value of 1% crit =

(.01 + r)c+(.99-r)n
------------------------
r*c+(1-r)*n

Secondly, list all abilities that fall under this criteria:
From the All Bosses WWS:
Ability: n,c,r
Magma Totem: 748,1572,.31
Windfury: 1939,4028,.42
Earth Shock: 2585,5429,.36
Flametongue: 445,937,.36
L.Bolt: 3683,7443,.32
Stormstrike: 875,1860,.43
C.Lightning: 2492,5528,.32
Lava Lash: 1157,2432,.43
Searing Totem: 632,1342,.32

Thirdly, also calculate values for white swing (converts one hit into crit, at a lower rate b/c of misses and glancings)

Fourthly, sum up all these increases:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=r5sWM1yb9oTVQDZJzBZlDIw&hl=en

Total Increase in DPS due to 1% crit increase: 0.007576365406625 = 0.76%

Total Increase in DPS due to 1 crit rating: 0.000165026473679 = 0.0165%
Therefore 1 hit rating above spell cap = 0.40 crit rating at this gearing level.
This means that crit rating is roughly 2.5x as valuable as hit rating.

Or, if crit = 1.7 EP, then hit = 0.7 EP

This differs from the sim value by a factor of 2:1.

Any ideas what's going on? Am I doing something wrong in the WWS theorycraft, or is the sim off?
#2013SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ouktaar
Originally Posted by cordelliia View Post
Any ideas what's going on? Am I doing something wrong in the WWS theorycraft, or is the sim off?
I don't see where you are factoring in the additional Flametongue, Static Shock, and Maelstrom Weapon damage from having additional white swings hit.
#2014SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3cordelliia
Originally Posted by Ouktaar View Post
I don't see where you are factoring in the additional Flametongue, Static Shock, and Maelstrom Weapon damage from having additional white swings hit.
Thanks, that explains it.

Reposting:

Total Increase in white DPS due to 1% hit increase: 0.22%

1% hit increases melee hits by 1.1%, increasing FT, MW, and SS, as well:
FT is 9% of total damage, LB & CL are 12% of total damage, and SS is 4% of total damage. Total: 25%

Total DPS increase from FT, MW, and SS: 0.27%

Total White + Spell Dmg increase from 1% hit rating: 0.49%


Total Increase in DPS due to 1 hit rating (32.79 rating = 1% hit): 0.01509 %
(above spell hit cap)
Total Increase in DPS due to 1 crit rating: 0.000165026473679 = 0.0165%
Once additional flurry uptime and elemental devastation effects are factored in, crit probably moves up a little bit more, matching the sim values.
#2015SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Zensai
Bug or am I missing something

EnhSim 1.7.0 ...

I'm running the sim with my actual gear. I've ran it several different ways with the glyphs that I'm using, with no glyphs, and with single glyphs to sim out the DPS gains. For some reason everytime I sim with no Glyphs and with Lightning Shield Glyph they come out to be the same DPS.

Base DPS without Glyphs:
6205 DPS : Totem of Hex
6189 DPS : Totem of Dancing Flame

Lightning Shield Glyph:
6204 DPS : Totem of Hex (-1 DPS of Base Hex)
6189 DPS : Totem of Dancing Flame (Equal to Base Flame)

Any idea why this would sim the same?

Last edited by Zensai : 05/13/09 at 3:21 PM.
#2016SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3zomghax
Originally Posted by Zensai View Post
EnhSim 1.7.0 ...

I'm running the sim with my actual gear. I've ran it several different ways with the glyphs that I'm using, with no glyphs, and with single glyphs to sim out the DPS gains. For some reason everytime I sim with no Glyphs and with Lightning Shield Glyph they come out to be the same DPS. This leads me to believe because of the T8 bonuses, that the 20% is not being applied for both but just once.

Base DPS without Glyphs:
6205 DPS : Totem of Hex
6189 DPS : Totem of Dancing Flame

Lightning Shield Glyph:
6204 DPS : Totem of Hex (-1 DPS of Base Hex)
6189 DPS : Totem of Dancing Flame (Equal to Base Flame)

Any idea why this would sim the same?
Do you have 'LS' enabled in your cast rotation? Posting your config file will enable us to actually help you rather than speculate.
#2017SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zensai
wow.... ignore me... I missed that... now I have to redo all my large sim's on my glyph posting

here is my config though for my gear and setup

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         33.11
oh_crit                         33.11
mh_hit                          11.34
oh_hit                          11.34
mh_expertise_rating             143
oh_expertise_rating             143
ap                              4104
melee_haste                     7.73
armor_penetration               12.34
str                             135
agi                             904
int                             530
spi                             155
spellpower                      1231
spell_crit                      26.72
spell_hit                       14.18
spell_haste                     5.95
max_mana                        12066
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        40256

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41398

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    lightning_bolt
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#2018SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vlyxnol
Originally Posted by Zensai View Post
wow.... ignore me... I missed that... now I have to redo all my large sim's on my glyph posting

here is my config though for my gear and setup

min_lag 0 ~~~~~~~~ Should represent your actual lag ingame
max_lag 0 ~~~~~~~~Should represent your actual lag ingame



rotation_priority_count 9
rotation_priority1 SW
rotation_priority2 SR
rotation_priority3 MW5_LB
rotation_priority4 ES_SS
rotation_priority5 SS
rotation_priority6 ES
rotation_priority7 LS
rotation_priority8 MT ~~~~~~~~ Your magma totem does less damage than Lightning shield?
rotation_priority9 LL


armor 10645 ~~~~~~~~~Should be 13083



spellpower_buff 165/165 ~~~~~~~ should be 280 Totem of Wrath - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft



potion - ~~~~~~~~~~Not using Haste Potions?
#2019SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Vlyxnol View Post

armor 10645 ~~~~~~~~~Should be 13083



spellpower_buff 165/165 ~~~~~~~ should be 280 Totem of Wrath - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft



potion - ~~~~~~~~~~Not using Haste Potions?
Mr. Squiggly, first off it should be 10645 as of patch 3.1; please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else.

Next, if he doesn't have an Elemental Shaman but has a Resto Shaman then it should be 165 unless he has a Demo Lock and then the number becomes much more variable.

Why would anyone use Haste pots when Speed pots are available?
#2020SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Mr. Squiggly, first off it should be 10645 as of patch 3.1; please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else.
Ah Mr Rouncer/Rounced, its actually 10643!!! The initial calculations have been refined to this new "far more accurate" figure as that extra 2 armour removed will make a huge difference to your dps.

Tempted to say "please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else." but you were almost right.


Anyway onto the real reason for my post. F.A.O. Tukez : I've added support in Rawr.Enhance v2.2.4 for the following EnhSim config options : combat_length, flask_elixir, guardian_elixir, bloodlust_casters, potion, food

Can you amend the copy from clipboard in v1.7.1 to expect these options on a Rawr import. v2.2.4 should be released tonight.
#2021SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Zaurok
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Ah Mr Rouncer/Rounced, its actually 10643!!! The initial calculations have been refined to this new "far more accurate" figure as that extra 2 armour removed will make a huge difference to your dps.

Tempted to say "please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else." but you were almost right.


Anyway onto the real reason for my post. F.A.O. Tukez : I've added support in Rawr.Enhance v2.2.4 for the following EnhSim config options : combat_length, flask_elixir, guardian_elixir, bloodlust_casters, potion, food

Can you amend the copy from clipboard in v1.7.1 to expect these options on a Rawr import. v2.2.4 should be released tonight.
Good to know as the config.txt that comes with 1.7.0 has 10645 for armor.

EDIT: Tried to fix the typo but was banned before I could do it. Sorry if it offended anyone as it wasn't intended (double S on as = bad)

Last edited by Zaurok : 05/16/09 at 3:23 PM.
#2022SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Zaurok View Post
Good to know as the config.txt that comes with 1.7.0 has 10645 for armor.
I know it wrong in the config.txt it was myself that last updated the config.txt for Tukez. That was prior to the confirmations on the Combat Stats at level 80 thread.

Originally Posted by Mavanas View Post
I know Rallik has done extensive testing of boss armor on heroic dummy using BT, but here is just another independent confirmation. I asked a hunter to use Beast Lore on Sanctum Sentry, the boss level cat add of Auriaya in Ulduar. The armor is exactly 10643, which matches Rallik's testing.


So as you can see the agreed value is now 10643. I posted a bug report for Tukez at EnhSim: Default config lvl 80 file invalid

Last edited by Levva : 05/15/09 at 9:17 AM.
#2023SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Didn't the 13k figure come from someone using beast lore on Maexxna though?
#2024SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Yichimet
I think the new 10k figure is post-3.1 after the % change to armor debuffs.
#2025SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vlyxnol
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Mr. Squiggly, first off it should be 10645 as of patch 3.1; please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else.

Next, if he doesn't have an Elemental Shaman but has a Resto Shaman then it should be 165 unless he has a Demo Lock and then the number becomes much more variable.

Why would anyone use Haste pots when Speed pots are available?

Sry for the wrong answer I've inquired about this twice before since 3.1 and no one has responded that 13k was incorrect. I did alot of reading on the subject to acquire the correct answer but apparently not enough. At least I finally got my answer I suppose.

"Haste" instead of "Speed" would be a typo.. though a detrimental one.
#2026SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vesham
Originally Posted by Saabu View Post
Option 1: Can you clarify how I would do this? Simply switch the expertise rating I input to a negative value? I.e, -145

Option 2: How do I 'normalize' the expertise value?

Appreciated
Look on the sim itself. There's a specific tab called EP where you can make these changes.
#2027SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3zomghax
I recently posted that I had been working on a series of simulations to observe changes in the EP value of Haste at different overall Haste levels. It has taken some time but I am finally ready to post my results.

My methodology was to perform a total of 51 x 5,000 hour simulations, testing every Haste value from 0% to 25% in 0.5% increments. This was done using my current paper doll values, except for melee haste which was manually changed for the tests. I also changed out my [Totem of Dueling] for [Totem of Hex] in the simulator to ensure that there would be no random Haste procs affecting the results.

Afterward I went back and performed 51 x 3,000 minute combat log simulations at each Haste level to determine the overall % DPS contribution from Windfury, suspecting that the EP value changes were likely caused by an interaction between swing speeds and the internal cooldown.

Here are my results in raw data form:

Haste %		DPS		Haste EP	Windfury %
=======		===		========	==========

 0.00 %		6044.96		2.66		12.05 %
 0.50 %		6058.73		2.58		12.09 %
 1.00 %		6078.66		2.43		12.11 %
 1.50 %		6100.89		2.35		12.13 %
 2.00 %		6116.61		1.83		12.15 %
 2.50 %		6128.18		2.14		12.13 %
 3.00 %		6140.72		2.32		12.16 %
 3.50 %		6160.06		2.53		12.17 %
 4.00 %		6180.15		2.30		12.20 %
 4.50 %		6188.20		2.03		12.18 %
 5.00 %		6203.41		2.27		12.21 %
 5.50 %		6221.15		2.25		12.21 %
 6.00 %		6239.11		2.18		12.20 %
 6.50 %		6250.50		1.76		12.19 %
 7.00 %		6260.72		2.03		12.21 %
 7.50 %		6278.29		1.91		12.18 %
 8.00 %		6295.03		1.30		12.16 %
 8.50 %		6300.00		1.73		12.14 %
 9.00 %		6314.58		1.88		12.13 %
 9.50 %		6329.71		1.24		12.08 %
10.00 %		6339.55		1.50		12.02 %
10.50 %		6346.77		1.83		12.02 %
11.00 %		6360.77		1.31		11.95 %
11.50 %		6370.10		1.68		11.90 %
12.00 %		6380.89		1.95		11.91 %
12.50 %		6396.35		1.21		11.84 %
13.00 %		6405.10		1.61		11.80 %
13.50 %		6412.54		1.77		11.78 %
14.00 %		6430.80		1.33		11.73 %
14.50 %		6441.41		1.75		11.70 %
15.00 %		6452.25		1.65		11.69 %
15.50 %		6461.62		1.89		11.66 %
16.00 %		6473.45		1.91		11.66 %
16.50 %		6494.14		2.07		11.62 %
17.00 %		6508.21		1.89		11.62 %
17.50 %		6515.09		2.16		11.60 %
18.00 %		6532.25		1.91		11.62 %
18.50 %		6541.64		2.24		11.60 %
19.00 %		6565.26		1.46		11.60 %
19.50 %		6577.88		1.55		11.60 %
20.00 %		6590.11		2.36		11.59 %
20.50 %		6606.16		2.01		11.61 %
21.00 %		6618.14		2.22		11.61 %
21.50 %		6631.01		2.07		11.62 %
22.00 %		6653.99		1.65		11.65 %
22.50 %		6659.45		2.08		11.62 %
23.00 %		6682.57		1.63		11.63 %
23.50 %		6688.04		2.63		11.62 %
24.00 %		6710.71		1.67		11.63 %
24.50 %		6725.22		2.29		11.62 %
25.00 %		6739.65		1.66		11.65 %
Here are the EP values for Haste and the Windfury % Damage Contribution presented as line charts:





From the data it is clear that between the values of 8% and 14% melee haste there are a number of "cold spots" where the EP value of Haste falls below 1.5 EP. This also happens again briefly at around 19% melee Haste. However, this isn't the case at every point. At 12% melee Haste, for example, the EP for Haste for 1.91.

It would appear as though one of the reasons why Haste is such a strong stat initially is its effect on Windfury, seen by the initial increase in DPS contribution. The Windfury decline which starts at ~ 7.5% is likely a root cause of the decline in EP value, but why are there still "hot spots" where Haste scores so highly?

My concern with the issue is that Haste becomes a real moving target once you start to move past 7% melee haste. Re-simming after a single upgrade can see your Haste value plummet, which can cause you to question gear choices, gems, enchants, etc. Even knowing that the drops are temporary, it can make it hard to compare gear or judge upgrades.

Is this an issue with the simulator, or are these EP drops real? How many others have seen similar results?
#2028SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3falonub
I was doing the same but not as low %. I reached 20% melee haste and I wanted to see the same. I noticed that I still maintained a 2.X EP value for haste up to 21.99% haste. However, at 22% it dropped down to 1.5-1.6. This continued for me all the way to 22.54%, however at 22.55% it rockets back up to a 2.X EP value and from there it maintains it's 2.X value up to like 26% and I didn't sim much more than that for now because that's a lot of slots I don't have yet so I don't care yet.
#2029SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Originally Posted by zomghax View Post
Is this an issue with the simulator, or are these EP drops real? How many others have seen similar results?
Short answer: the simulator is accurately reflecting in game mechanics; haste dps contribution varies a lot.

You removed Totem of Dueling from your simulation to prevent haste procs, but Flurry is still a core enhancement mechanic. Also, the sim will cast Heroism / Bloodlust every 10 minutes.

As your weapon speed approaches a value that divides into the 3s windfury internal cooldown, the value of haste improves -- there is less time after the cooldown before your next swing and potential windfury proc. As weapon speed drops below 1.5s, 1.0s or 0.75s, the value of haste from windfury drops, since it's nearly a full swing timer after the internal cooldown until the next potential proc.

This is complicated by the fuzziness of the internal cooldown (in the simulator it's randomly between 2.8 and 3.2 seconds to reflect reality) due to server-client communication, and all the various haste effects we encounter in a raid environment: Windfury Totem, Flurry, totem procs, trinket procs and on-use effects, potions, and Heroism / Bloodlust. Other than Windfury Totem, the simulator (and real in-game mechanics) will have these effects in place sometimes and sometimes not -- and frequently overlapping.

Haste is never a bad stat (negative EP value) because it always increases white damage, so several weeks ago someone advised using an EP value for haste based on personal gut feeling, regardless of the simmed value. I think using the same value as agility or crit was the recommendation.
#2030SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Farosarg
I had pretty similar results with my test set last week when I was wondering what kind of impact the four piece set bonus would have on haste EP value. Just using my paperdoll stats and adding the set bonus dropped haste EP to 1.23 which, as expected, was lower than current but by a way too large margin.

Adding melee haste in .2% increments displayed the same effect that your testing did. This indeed makes us second guess gear choices. From that test we could maybe designate a point (8.20%?) until when haste is better than other stats to get and after that use the same EP value that agi or crit has.
#2031SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
Originally Posted by Farosarg View Post
I had pretty similar results with my test set last week when I was wondering what kind of impact the four piece set bonus would have on haste EP value. Just using my paperdoll stats and adding the set bonus dropped haste EP to 1.23 which, as expected, was lower than current but by a way too large margin.

Adding melee haste in .2% increments displayed the same effect that your testing did. This indeed makes us second guess gear choices. From that test we could maybe designate a point (8.20%?) until when haste is better than other stats to get and after that use the same EP value that agi or crit has.
Thats basically exactly right. Another shaman I know tested his damage and found that going above 9% haste resulted in a much lower EP value. It was only above 22% that his EP value went up and above 2.0, but the loss of so many other stats makes this approach undesirable. What a surprise. Stacking one stat exclusively is once again proven to not be beneficial for shamans :P
#2032SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Devendra
Trying to get EP values

Hello,
I have been trying to figure out how to get some EP values with my current gear. I am copying over from Rawr to EnhSim 1.7 (on Windows Vista with a core 2 duo, which is listed as working with SSE2) but I keep getting an error and only a choice to close the window.

A point in the right direction is much appreciated! Thanks.



##########################################
### Rawr.Enhance Data Export to EnhSim ###
##########################################

config_source rawr

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          156.6
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         24.65
oh_crit                         24.65
mh_hit                          12.44
oh_hit                          12.44
mh_expertise_rating             178
oh_expertise_rating             178
ap                              3633
melee_haste                     6.46
armor_penetration               2.35
str                             133
agi                             731
int                             466
spi                             153
spellpower                      1089
spell_crit                      17.95
spell_hit                       15.55
spell_haste                     4.97
max_mana                        11106
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      2673
mh_weapon                       -
oh_enchant                      2673
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        40531

totem                           40322
set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         -

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -
glyph_major1                    lava_lash
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -


#############
## Talents ##
#############

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

#########
# Buffs #
#########

armor_debuff_major              0.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              0.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0.0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             0.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60
bloodlust_casters               1
flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

combat_length                   7.30
#2033SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
I have had that issue at times. It disapeared after some machine restarts, so while I can not put my finger on what is going on I think restarting your OS could fix it.
#2034SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zaurok
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
I have had that issue at times. It disapeared after some machine restarts, so while I can not put my finger on what is going on I think restarting your OS could fix it.
The sim will crash (the dos box) if I enable SW within the parameters after 1-2 seconds of calculating.
#2035SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Aeolian
I've only had the "stop working" error when trying to run the EP calculations on my Vista machine. It runs fine on XP Professional and Home, no issues, fresh installs of the simulator on all 3. Haven't been able to find a cause or a fix for it.
#2036SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Loukno
After i followed a tutorial on how to calculate EP with Enhsim from Ensidia forums (Ensidia - Welcome) i got this values:

EnhSim version 1.7.0

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.90364% (49.9363 hit rating).

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana calculated.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit calculated.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5942.63
ap                        1.00      0.56      6054.36        111.73
crit rating               1.70      0.95      5971.18        28.56
hit rating                1.45      0.81      5966.85        24.22
expertise rating          2.64      1.48      5991.04        48.41
haste rating              1.44      0.80      5966.71        24.08
armor penetration rating  1.47      0.82      5967.27        24.64
spellpower                0.99      0.55      6025.82        83.19
mh dps                    5.17      2.89      5964.28        21.65
oh dps                    2.34      1.31      5952.43        9.81
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.62      
intelligence              1.97      
spirit                    -0.00     -0.00     5942.60        -0.03
mana                      0.03      0.02      5947.23        4.60
mp5                       1.73      0.97      5961.94        19.31

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.70, HitRating=1.45, HasteRating=1.44, ExpertiseRating=2.64, ArmorPenetration=1.47, SpellDamage=0.99, MainHandDps=5.17, OffHandDps=2.34, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.62, Intellect=1.97, Spirit=-0.00, Mana=0.03, Mp5=1.73 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.44&dps=5.17&mp5=1.73&mcr=1.70&odps=2.34&spd=0.99&Agi=1.62&mhit=1.45&Int=1.97&Spi=-0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.47&Exp=2.64

elapsed simulation time: 14000.00h
elapsed real time: 35.21s
simulation speed: 1431248x
I found that int is too high compared to agility. This is the configuration i used for this calculation based on the tutorial i took for Enhsim:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              MT
rotation_priority6              LS
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.50
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          156.6
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.59
oh_crit                         31.59
mh_hit                          10
oh_hit                          10
mh_expertise_rating             106
oh_expertise_rating             106
ap                              3993
melee_haste                     9.28
armor_penetration               5.36
str                             129
agi                             936
int                             499
spi                             153
spellpower                      1197
spell_crit                      22.63
spell_hit                       13.76
spell_haste                     7.14
max_mana                        11601
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        44253

totem                           40322

set_bonus1                      -
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Is there anything wrong with my configuration, and if not, could someone tell me why im getting too high EP values for int, is that a normal value that i should take for PAWN?
#2037SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
• Koban
Either disable mana simulation or enable replenishment/bow/judgement of wisdom.

You are obviously going out of mana in that simulation, hence why the high EP value for int/mp5.

And while I didn't check your armory, I also noticed you didn't enter a third glyph or a set bonus.
ShockAndAwe doesn't import the glyph of feral spirits nor a set bonus. (yet?)

Last edited by Koban : 05/18/09 at 5:02 AM. Reason: Adding stuff.
#2038SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ruga
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
I've only had the "stop working" error when trying to run the EP calculations on my Vista machine. It runs fine on XP Professional and Home, no issues, fresh installs of the simulator on all 3. Haven't been able to find a cause or a fix for it.
This might fix your errors under Vista (I use Vista64):
  1. Load EnhSim 1.7.0
  2. Load the standard config and update the rotation to what you want
  3. Load Rawr 2.2.4
  4. Import your char from armory into Rawr
  5. Make changes as needed
  6. Export your character Data from Rawr and import it into EnhSim (Copy from clipboard button)
  7. Sim away!

If you do that, you'll not end up having an error when calculating EP values. Or, at least, it worked for me.

I suspect it has something to do with the config people use.
I will paste mine when I get home.
#2039SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lucentia
Originally Posted by Zaurok View Post
The sim will crash (the dos box) if I enable SW within the parameters after 1-2 seconds of calculating.
I run Vista 64, and i get the same issue whenever i have more than 6 items in my rotation, so i dropped Magma totem and spirit wolves, i am sure it messes the EP balance up somewhat, but i figured probably less than other options.

I've had it reported as a bug on the website for several weeks...
#2040SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Frostshockz
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
What I would like to know is how Windfury Glyph compares to Lightning Shield glyph in a raid environment where you will be gaining additional activations from the extraneous damage. Anyone want to take a stab at that one?
I know this question was put out there on another thread, but it had been "bugging" me all weekend, and I thought the question I had would be better asked in this thread.

What do other shaman do to adjust the Sim's results based upon real game interaction? The Sim can't sim AE. The sim can't sim non-perfect use of abilities/trinkets. Sure the use of trinkets/pots/wolves on XT's heart probably evens out a missed timer, but what about fights like Razor where there isn't a bonus DMG part, but the timing has to be perfect (when she lands verse the adds).

So if I am not using wolves every 3 min on the dot - that makes it sim much worse . . .. What if a fight mechanic makes me miss a use if I am saving it for a certain phase or part of a fight? There isn't one "perfect" fight in Uld - Ignis comes close, but even then it isn't perfect.

I guess my question is - how do other people adjust the suggestions of gear/glyphs/talents around a perfect sim in an imperfect game?
#2041SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Frostshockz View Post
I know this question was put out there on another thread, but it had been "bugging" me all weekend, and I thought the question I had would be better asked in this thread.

What do other shaman do to adjust the Sim's results based upon real game interaction? The Sim can't sim AE. The sim can't sim non-perfect use of abilities/trinkets. Sure the use of trinkets/pots/wolves on XT's heart probably evens out a missed timer, but what about fights like Razor where there isn't a bonus DMG part, but the timing has to be perfect (when she lands verse the adds).

So if I am not using wolves every 3 min on the dot - that makes it sim much worse . . .. What if a fight mechanic makes me miss a use if I am saving it for a certain phase or part of a fight? There isn't one "perfect" fight in Uld - Ignis comes close, but even then it isn't perfect.

I guess my question is - how do other people adjust the suggestions of gear/glyphs/talents around a perfect sim in an imperfect game?
Common sense and experience? The sim gives you a direction to go for idealized/baseline situations. For example, if a trinket with a passive proc like the [Mirror of Truth] sim'd out as very close but not quite as good as one with an on-use like [Wrathstone], I might use the Mirror on some fights and the Wrathstone on others.

Most of the oddities/imperfections that you're talking about are fairly minor dps losses overall.
#2042SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mengtzu
Originally Posted by Lucentia View Post
I run Vista 64, and i get the same issue whenever i have more than 6 items in my rotation, so i dropped Magma totem and spirit wolves, i am sure it messes the EP balance up somewhat, but i figured probably less than other options.
I'm finding (with 1.7.0, Vista 32) that removing SR from the rotation will prevent the error, which seems a decent workaround if you're not simulating mana.
#2043SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
Can we get [Mjolnir Runestone] and [Blood of the Old God] added to the simulator? Both have the same ICD as every other trinket of this type (45 seconds) and without having either in the simulator, its a bit hard to determine which older trinket is best to be replaced!
#2044SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Aeolian
Originally Posted by Frostshockz View Post
I know this question was put out there on another thread, but it had been "bugging" me all weekend, and I thought the question I had would be better asked in this thread.

What do other shaman do to adjust the Sim's results based upon real game interaction? The Sim can't sim AE. The sim can't sim non-perfect use of abilities/trinkets. Sure the use of trinkets/pots/wolves on XT's heart probably evens out a missed timer, but what about fights like Razor where there isn't a bonus DMG part, but the timing has to be perfect (when she lands verse the adds).

So if I am not using wolves every 3 min on the dot - that makes it sim much worse . . .. What if a fight mechanic makes me miss a use if I am saving it for a certain phase or part of a fight? There isn't one "perfect" fight in Uld - Ignis comes close, but even then it isn't perfect.

I guess my question is - how do other people adjust the suggestions of gear/glyphs/talents around a perfect sim in an imperfect game?
Personally I don't use the simulator to tell me how much DPS I should be doing in my current gear. I use it to find EP values and to check potential BiS gear. Fights vary too much to ever base your actual in-game DPS to that of the simulator. Obviously its a perfect scenario, no environmental interruption, no aoe, no movement. We could ask Tukez to give us options to select how many times we use wolves in a 5-6 minute fight, and/or an option to line it up with Heroism/Bloodlust like our trinkets (if it isn't already) but there isn't any point in doing that because it still won't give you 100% accurate representation of your DPS in game.

If you are trying to use the simulator to figure out which glyph is better, as we did in the other thread, it still isn't 100% accurate. One could argue that any fight with an environmental AoE effect could potentially pull more DPS out of the Lightning Shield glyph then the Feral Spirit glyph, most people won't re-glyph just for that though. The best we could possibly do at the moment is run the simulator with shorter times to find out what one use of wolves will do versus the lightning shield glyph. Is it completely accurate, nope. It is a substantial enough representation that we can use it effectively to determine that Feral Spirits, at least for the moment, is the way to go. We are doing some testing to find out more about environmental Lightning Shield procs a long with Static Shock to see if the LS glyph could be a better choice, but we are not finished yet.

To answer your question directly, I doubt you can accurately adjust anything in the simulator to portray your DPS perfectly. Too many variables, often in the same fight. Your DPS from week to week on Decon is going to vary depending on Gravity Bomb and Light Orb placement, for example.
#2045SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Frostshockz
To some degree I don't care as much about the gear aspect. Simply because it is easy enough to swap item X for item Y between fights.

The glyph and the talents though do make me wonder. For example - pre 3.1 when we were more streched from a talent point of view (too many talents not enough points) I would throw points in improved shields to get stronger LS procs. Sure I had less static shock procs (I think I was running 2/3 in both) and less total orbs, but in fights like Thad where there is a lot of AE dmg happening it was a huge asset.

I am reading and watching the glyph thread for this very reason.

Honestly I guess in the end there will be a very small DPS difference between glyph A and B (assuming you are using one of the top 4 or so). Same with talents. I want to get the highest DPS possible each and every fight, but I guess what is needed for that will vary fight to fight.
#2046SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Is there still a plan to do a java redesign?

[e] I was bored with my design assignment at work today so I brainstormed a bit on this. I think we would want to implement an XML reader and just define a custom schema to describe trinkets. We can provide trinket schemas for most of the common ones and then people can follow the pattern to add new ones as they want.

Something like:

<trinket name="Malan's Maruader of Doom">
<chanceOnHit value=0.45>
<internalCooldown value =10>
<procBonus><attackPower value=3000>
</trinket>

And then we'd have a trinket model that would read in expected values and instantiate itself as the specified trinket. The engine itself would just know how to ask a trinket for things like "tell me what to do when you fire" and "how long before you can fire again."

Last edited by Malan : 05/19/09 at 8:43 PM.
#2047SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Staticus
Originally Posted by Loukno View Post
After i followed a tutorial on how to calculate EP with Enhsim from Ensidia forums (Ensidia - Welcome) i got this values:

// lots of code

Is there anything wrong with my configuration, and if not, could someone tell me why im getting too high EP values for int, is that a normal value that i should take for PAWN?
Move SR to the top of the priority list and it's guaranteed to go off when you have 750 mana left. (atm it's at the bottom, which means you're bound to go oom while the sim is trying to cast everything else first)

Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
We could ask Tukez to give us options to select how many times we use wolves in a 5-6 minute fight, and/or an option to line it up with Heroism/Bloodlust like our trinkets (if it isn't already) but there isn't any point in doing that because it still won't give you 100% accurate representation of your DPS in game.
The sim assumes heroism is up when wolves come out afaik. (which in itself assumes you have a second shaman who can hero when wolves come out for the 2nd time)

Last edited by Staticus : 05/19/09 at 6:51 PM.
#2048SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Skiace
Originally Posted by Staticus View Post
(which in itself assumes you have a second shaman who can hero when wolves come out for the 2nd time)
Not since 3.1 when Sated was changed to a 10 minute debuff. The default combat length for the sim is 5 minutes anyway.
#2049SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Is there still a plan to do a java redesign?

[e] I was bored with my design assignment at work today so I brainstormed a bit on this. I think we would want to implement an XML reader and just define a custom schema to describe trinkets. We can provide trinket schemas for most of the common ones and then people can follow the pattern to add new ones as they want.

Something like:

<trinket name="Malan's Maruader of Doom">
<chanceOnHit value=0.45>
<internalCooldown value =10>
<procBonus><attackPower value=3000>
</trinket>

And then we'd have a trinket model that would read in expected values and instantiate itself as the specified trinket. The engine itself would just know how to ask a trinket for things like "tell me what to do when you fire" and "how long before you can fire again."
I thought about doing a sim in .net and came up with the same idea. A xml definition file for trinkets. There should be a basic set of proccing mechanisms with their own parameters you could use. An example could be "Proc on critical melee hit" (Parameters: proc chance).
#2050SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cochice
Originally Posted by falonub View Post
I was doing the same but not as low %. I reached 20% melee haste and I wanted to see the same. I noticed that I still maintained a 2.X EP value for haste up to 21.99% haste. However, at 22% it dropped down to 1.5-1.6. This continued for me all the way to 22.54%, however at 22.55% it rockets back up to a 2.X EP value and from there it maintains it's 2.X value up to like 26% and I didn't sim much more than that for now because that's a lot of slots I don't have yet so I don't care yet.
Hrm, mine dropped at about 22% (like you), but simmed low all the way through 28% (right around 1.3-1.5). I don't think getting up towards 28% is really realistic yet. So basically do we want to shoot for 21%ish and keep it there (depending on your sim results)?
#2051SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Is there still a plan to do a java redesign?

[e] I was bored with my design assignment at work today so I brainstormed a bit on this. I think we would want to implement an XML reader and just define a custom schema to describe trinkets. We can provide trinket schemas for most of the common ones and then people can follow the pattern to add new ones as they want.

Something like:

<trinket name="Malan's Maruader of Doom">
<chanceOnHit value=0.45>
<internalCooldown value =10>
<procBonus><attackPower value=3000>
</trinket>

And then we'd have a trinket model that would read in expected values and instantiate itself as the specified trinket. The engine itself would just know how to ask a trinket for things like "tell me what to do when you fire" and "how long before you can fire again."
On the java redesign yes definitely Malan, I'd suggest we create a new sourceforge project and setup authors for those willing to assist. Then we'd have a live project & forum to discuss the actual project/class design as that is beyond the scope of this forum. I can go ahead and create such a project and then authorise the appropriate people as authors so we can begin the process.

PS. That trinket's OP.

Edit: Ok to kick things off I've created a project https://sourceforge.net/projects/enhsimj/ and will be able to manage it and add authors once its approved. Can anyone who can contribute to coding the project please contact me by Private Message.

Last edited by Levva : 05/20/09 at 8:31 AM.
#2052SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Torodo
ArP Calculation

Questions about Armor Penetration usefulness on the WoW forums got me looking at the EnhSim 1.7 code. The equations for damage reduction due to armor look nothing like what has been posted by a developer in the Damage Dealer's forum of WoW.

Here is a rehash of what was posted. You can go to the DD forums and dig up the original posts for confirmation.


Step 1: ACdebuff = AC * ArPdebuff1 * ArPDebuff2 * ...

AC = the armor of the mob
ArPdebuffn = the % armor reduction due to a debuff placed on the mob. For example, sunder armor.


Step2: ACcap = (ACmax + ACdebuff)/3
if ACcap > AC then ACcap = AC

ACMax = 15232.5


Step 3: ACreduction = ACcap * (ArPbuff1 + ArPbuff2 + ...)

ArPbuffn = personal Armor Penetration buff, like Armor Penetration rating


Step 4: MeleeDamageFactor = ACmax / (ACmax + ACcap - ACreduction)

Dev posting has recognized that with enough armor penetration, it is possible to get over 100% damage factor. But current itemization does not make it possible. Because players are inputting these values, you probably want to cap the MeleeReductionFactor at 1.
#2053SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ragsie
This is a little off the road for the current conversation but I know I am not the only one wondering about this:

Are there any plans on updates, especially adding a GUI, to MacEnh?

I posted the same question as a Wish on the website but saw no response. Any clue?
#2054SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Edit: Ok to kick things off I've created a project https://sourceforge.net/projects/enhsimj/ and will be able to manage it and add authors once its approved. Can anyone who can contribute to coding the project please contact me by Private Message.
Ah man, I would have suggested jEnhanceSim, that's what I named my netbeans project when I started it up last night. I did a little UML design last night, nothing too detailed but it got the wheels turning.

Btw sourceforge says your application was not approved.
#2055SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Derfal
Originally Posted by Skiace View Post
Not since 3.1 when Sated was changed to a 10 minute debuff. The default combat length for the sim is 5 minutes anyway.
The default combat time in the config.txt file is 6 mins.

It's also worth noting that as the wolves do their damage oved 45 secs that their reported dps value drops as the fight length moves from 1min to 3min (end of cd) and again from 4 min to 6 min (at lower values throughout due to Bloodlust and 'Use' type trinkets.

Additionally your dps values (with the wolves removed from the rotation ) will be higher for a 5 min fight compared to a 6 min fight if you have any 2min Use type trinkets equipt.

It's quite easy to calculate the dps value of the wolves if you want to use them once per fight Enhancement Glyphs a numeric comparison
#2056SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3suicuique
Originally Posted by Torodo View Post
Step2: ACcap = (ACmax + ACdebuff)/3
if ACcap > AC then ACcap = AC

Step 4: MeleeDamageFactor = ACmax / (ACmax + ACcap - ACreduction)
Im pretty sure it has to be:

Step2: ACcap = (ACmax + ACdebuff)/3
if ACcap > ACdebuff then ACcap = ACdebuff

Step4: MeleeDamageFactor = ACmax / (ACmax + ACdebuff - ACreduction)
#2057SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Torodo
Originally Posted by suicuique View Post
Im pretty sure it has to be:

Step2: ACcap = (ACmax + ACdebuff)/3
if ACcap > ACdebuff then ACcap = ACdebuff

Step4: MeleeDamageFactor = ACmax / (ACmax + ACdebuff - ACreduction)
You are correct. The simple example given by the developer hid the fact that the debuff value should be used in the above equations. But a player posted a detailed example and it is consistent with your correction. Thanks!

I should also point out the the constant, ACmax, is actually computed based on mob level as follows:

ACmax = 400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59)

for mobs over level 59.

The ACmax I listed was for a level 80 mob. For a boss it would be 16635.
#2058SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Ah man, I would have suggested jEnhanceSim, that's what I named my netbeans project when I started it up last night. I did a little UML design last night, nothing too detailed but it got the wheels turning.

Btw sourceforge says your application was not approved.
Yeah my initial description of the project referenced the Enhsim website and I got back a reply saying they need a full description in the box and no external links!! I re-submitted the application with a full description and no URL links. If they still decline it I can try to setup a project on Codeplex instead.

Netbeans, hmmm. I use Eclipse its so much cleaner and doesn't add nearly so much gunk to a project. Eclipse.org home and click the downloads link. Very open and easy to upgrade too, with built in SVN support and plugins for practically anything you could think might be useful. Still I think the IDE shouldn't matter as long as we don't start using things like the Netbeans custom code for GUI stuff.

Originally Posted by Ragsie View Post
This is a little off the road for the current conversation but I know I am not the only one wondering about this:

Are there any plans on updates, especially adding a GUI, to MacEnh?

I posted the same question as a Wish on the website but saw no response. Any clue?
A Java replacement would run on Windows, Macs & Linux and was discussed the message immediately above yours.
#2059SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
To each his own on the IDE. I just happen to like netbeans look/feel better. (Netbeans does everything you described too )

I assume we'll be taking the approach of a constructive simulation (that's my field of work) and fully representing weapons, trinkets, the player and the 'target dummy' as actors in our sim?


[e] Well looks like the project is in the process of being approved this time, I can actually log in and see our dev site now.

Last edited by Malan : 05/20/09 at 12:30 PM.
#2060SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ncervantes
I recently picked up wrathstone and sim'd it. I'm a little concerned because it is siming with a 20% up time. The use has a cool down of two minutes and lasts twenty seconds. Is the sim incorrect or am I missing something?
#2061SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
You're missing the rationale behind the uptime. In a 5 minute period you'll (in theory) use the trinket at 0:00, 2:00, 4:00. That's 60 seconds which is 20% if your simulator is set to use a 5min combat. Or you can use the trinket twice in 3 minutes which is slightly over 20%. In short: Check how you have the sim configured and yes it's probably correct.
#2062SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cochice
Originally Posted by ncervantes View Post
I recently picked up wrathstone and sim'd it. I'm a little concerned because it is siming with a 20% up time. The use has a cool down of two minutes and lasts twenty seconds. Is the sim incorrect or am I missing something?
Wait, I thought the sim didn't have wrathstone coded yet? I get "Trinket wrathstone not found." when I sim with it. I'm using 1.7.0
#2063SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ncervantes
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
Wait, I thought the sim didn't have wrathstone coded yet? I get "Trinket wrathstone not found." when I sim with it. I'm using 1.7.0
It's the very last trinket on the drop down. Here is my config and I'm not receiving any errors. Just seeing a 20% up time, which is concerning.

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 6000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         25
max_lag                         50
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              MT
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              LL
rotation_priority9              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          178.9
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         32.72
oh_crit                         32.72
mh_hit                          11.47
oh_hit                          11.47
mh_expertise_rating             140
oh_expertise_rating             140
ap                              4066
melee_haste                     13.72
armor_penetration               0
str                             137
agi                             901
int                             539
spi                             161
spellpower                      1219
spell_crit                      24.42
spell_hit                       14.33
spell_haste                     13.72
max_mana                        12201
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        wrathstone
trinket2                        grim_toll

totem                           deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#2064SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cochice
Originally Posted by ncervantes View Post
It's the very last trinket on the drop down. Here is my config and I'm not receiving any errors. Just seeing a 20% up time, which is concerning.
I know where it is, I wouldn't get that error if it wasn't entered :P

And as Malan said, you're seeing 20% because of your combat_length
#2065SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ncervantes
Originally Posted by Malan
You're missing the rationale behind the uptime. In a 5 minute period you'll (in theory) use the trinket at 0:00, 2:00, 4:00. That's 60 seconds which is 20% if your simulator is set to use a 5min combat. Or you can use the trinket twice in 3 minutes which is slightly over 20%. In short: Check how you have the sim configured and yes it's probably correct.
Werid, I didn't see this reply until I quoted Cochice. Thanks for the help.
#2066SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quirk
Is anyone currently running EnhSim on Windows 7?

The sim crashes right away and the EP -sometimes- gets a few lines in before crashing.

Latest C++ and .Net packs installed as well.
#2067SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Works fine for me under W7. Just make sure you've got 1.7 and use the new config file (not the lvl 80 one).
#2068SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raiix - Myla
Haste EP

Hi there, my concern is about the unstable haste ep again. Especially, I want to know the gem order in case of high-end equip. My crit ep is quite stable at 1.7 and i use stamina gems to reach a good socket bonus (e.g. +12 ap on t8/t8.5 legs or leatherworking waist and feet). Losing 4ap for 132hp is a nice deal in my opinion. Hit and expertise are capped.

haste > ap > stamina (with haste ep > 2.00)
ap > haste > stamina (with haste ep < 2.00)
ap > crit > stamina (with haste ep < 1.7)

So I have chosen a set of probably bis items, that you can get before entering the hardmodes, and applied it to my config.



With this gear set i endet up with 15.3% haste and did linear regression from 15.0% to 20% wich led to a ep value of 2.07. One should get similar results by increasing the ep steps by a factor of 5 or higher.
#2069SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quirk
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Works fine for me under W7. Just make sure you've got 1.7 and use the new config file (not the lvl 80 one).
EnhSim is a fresh download from the code page - v1.7

Sim is running fine now and EP is also successful, with expertise skipped. However, when I reduce my character expertise to below cap or modify the EP value to negative the EP calc crashes every time.
#2070SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
Worldbreaker set bonus question

Simple question: Do I need to enable both set bonuses in order to properly sim them, or does enabling the 4pc option automatically sim the 2pc as well? 2pc sims fine, but when I enter the 4pc bonus into the second set bonus slot (GUI) Enh sim crashes. When I enter both for other armor sets however, it works fine.

Config below incase I have managed to break something. Any generic feedback on my config would also be welcome; I am new to the Sim. Thanks the the author btw.

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         160
max_lag                         170
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         31.28
oh_crit                         31.28
mh_hit                          12.41
oh_hit                          12.41
mh_expertise_rating             142
oh_expertise_rating             142
ap                              4086
melee_haste                     14.11
armor_penetration               5.68
str                             133
agi                             837
int                             517
spi                             153
spellpower                      1499
spell_crit                      23.61
spell_hit                       15.52
spell_haste                     10.86
max_mana                        11871
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        pyrite_infuser

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    lightning_bolt
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#2071SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raiix - Myla
4pc includes 4pc bonus and 2pc bonus.
#2072SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Darkclaw
Originally Posted by Quirk View Post
Is anyone currently running EnhSim on Windows 7?

The sim crashes right away and the EP -sometimes- gets a few lines in before crashing.

Latest C++ and .Net packs installed as well.


I'm running it in Win 7 RC and it has not crashed for me.
#2073SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Octanus
Very new here so please forgive ignorance =P

I have downloaded the latest EnhSim but having trouble actually opening it. Whenever I try to it comes up with:

''Windows cannot open this file:

File: EnhSim1.7.0.rar

To open this file, Windows needs to know what program created it. Windows can go online to look it up automatically, or you can manually select from a list of programs on your computer.''

When I do try to use the site it gives me this:


Windows has the following information about this file type. This page will help you find software needed to open your file.


''File Type: RAR compressed archive file

File Extension: .rar
Description: RAR files contain one or more files that have been compressed and packaged into an archive file.

Software or information available at:

* RARLAB WinRAR
* WinAce
* WinZip


You may search the following Web site for related software and information:

* Windows Live Search''

Which one is safe to use as I want to be sure it works correctly.

Thank you. =]
#2074SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Wamilil
I personally use WinRAR. I can't speak from any experience about the other two.
#2075SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Octanus
Ok Thanks for the fast reply, I guess I will try it. =D
#2076SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
If you want to respect licenses note WinRAR is not free, so I suggest either 7Zip or WinAce (both should work fine and are free from what i remember)
#2077SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Torodo
ArPen Revisited

A few posts ago I mentioned a problem with 1.7.0 EnhSim's armor penetration calculation.

I dug a little deeper and extracted the armor penetration calculations and compared them with the formulas posted by Ghost Crawler (Blizzard Lead Designer) on the WoW damage Dealer forums.

EnhSim is overcomputing the damage reduction due to armor by around 17%. However, I think the code is improperly throwing away the debuff computation during the simulation step and only using player armor penetration. The author should revist this part of the code to make confirm this.

Here are some sample results for 20% armor debuff (sunder armor), assuming the debuff properly makes it into the calculateArmor and calculateDamage functions, and a range of armor penetration values of 0 to 300

The factors multiply the unmitigated melee damage to get the actual melee damage.

 
ArPen EnhSim GC
0 0.556 0.625
100 0.576 0.645
200 0.599 0.666
300 0.623 0.688

Here is the code so interested parties can double check the computation.

Option explicit
Dim arp, acdebuff, acmax, accap, acred, gc_reduction

'*** sim constants
const ARMOR_PENETRATION_RATING_TO_ARMOR_PENETRATION = 0.0008119361
const ATTACKER_LEVEL = 83

'*** warrior boss armor
Dim armor_base_ : armor_base_ = 400.0 + 85.0 * (ATTACKER_LEVEL + 4.5 * (ATTACKER_LEVEL - 59.0))
Dim armor_, damage_reduction_

'*** sunder armor debuff
'*** as near as I can tell, armor debuffs are thrown away during simulation phase and repalced by armor_base_ * armor_penetration_
'*** but I will add it here anyways in case I am wrong
Dim armor_debuff_ : armor_debuff_ = 0.2

For arp = 0 To 300 Step 10
    '*** enhsim 1.7 computation
    armor_ = armor_base_ * (1.0 - armor_debuff_) * (1.0 - arp * ARMOR_PENETRATION_RATING_TO_ARMOR_PENETRATION)
    damage_reduction_ = 1.0 - (armor_ / (armor_ + 400.0 + 85.0 * (ATTACKER_LEVEL + 4.5 * (ATTACKER_LEVEL - 59.0))))

    '*** compute GC posted reduction

    '*** apply mob debuffs multiplcatively
    acdebuff = armor_base_ * (1.0 - armor_debuff_)

    '*** compute max armor for cap calc
    acmax = 400.0 + 85.0 * (ATTACKER_LEVEL + 4.5 * (ATTACKER_LEVEL - 59.0))

    '*** cap is an average of max and debuffed armor
    accap = (armor_base_ + acdebuff) / 3.0

    '*** if cap is over debuffed armor then use debuffed armor
    if (accap > acdebuff) Then accap = acdebuff

    '*** apply armor penetration additively to the armor cap to get armor reduction
    acred = accap * arp * ARMOR_PENETRATION_RATING_TO_ARMOR_PENETRATION

    '*** damage reduction is an inverse function of reduction
    gc_reduction = acmax / (acmax + accap - acred)

    MsgBox arp & "=" & damage_reduction_ & "," & gc_reduction
Next
#2078SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Octanus
I have successfully downloaded EnhSim1.7.0.rar, added my stats, but when I try to run the Enhsim.exe application it comes up with an error and shuts down.

Am I doing anything wrong?
#2079SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Ragsie
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
A Java replacement would run on Windows, Macs & Linux and was discussed the message immediately above yours.
It's nice to see this is underway after so long.

Last edited by Ragsie : 05/30/09 at 9:05 AM.
#2080SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Panamah
Originally Posted by Octanus View Post
I have successfully downloaded EnhSim1.7.0.rar, added my stats, but when I try to run the Enhsim.exe application it comes up with an error and shuts down.

Am I doing anything wrong?
I get crashes too, it happens when I change my glyphs. I think there's only a couple it doesn't crash on.
#2081SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ciege
Getting Errors:

Gonna make it simple. Opens fine, i can input my data no problem, but i cant run any of the sims, i get tons of errors. So, heres the errors:

See the end of this message for details on invoking 
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ComponentModel.Win32Exception: The system cannot find the file specified
   at System.Diagnostics.Process.StartWithShellExecuteEx(ProcessStartInfo startInfo)
   at System.Diagnostics.Process.Start()
   at System.Diagnostics.Process.Start(ProcessStartInfo startInfo)
   at System.Diagnostics.Process.Start(String fileName, String arguments)
   at enhsimgui.MainForm.button1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3082 (QFE.050727-3000)
    CodeBase: file:///E:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
enhsimgui
    Assembly Version: 1.0.3401.16414
    Win32 Version: 
    CodeBase: file:///F:/Enhance%20Sim/enhsimgui.exe
----------------------------------------
msvcm90
    Assembly Version: 9.0.21022.8
    Win32 Version: 9.00.21022.8
    CodeBase: file:///E:/WINDOWS/WinSxS/x86_Microsoft.VC90.CRT_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_x-ww_d08d0375/msvcm90.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
    CodeBase: file:///E:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
    CodeBase: file:///E:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
    CodeBase: file:///E:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3082 (QFE.050727-3000)
    CodeBase: file:///E:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.
#2082SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Point it to the right executable
#2083SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shinwei
Haven't been able to figure this one out. How come whenever I run EnhSim it tells me that my white DPS is below 10. That seems very strange. If I turn off all of my rotation and tell it to only white attack, I get a theoretical DPS number of around 400. I'm pretty sure I do more than 400 DPS just white-attacking, what's going on?

It says my flametongue does DPS in the 380s, and my Windfury procs do... 3.12 DPS.

I double checked my stats that I exported from ShockandAwe, and they're correct. MH Speed 2.60, OH Speed 1.60, MH DPS 171.3, OH DPS 156.6, etc.

Am I supposed to be getting such a low white DPS number or..?
#2084SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Post a config file, otherwise it's impossible for us to help you. I suspect you might be having too high armor value in the config.
#2085SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shinwei
Here's my file:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time 1000
simulation_time_combatlog 30
combat_length 5
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 200
max_lag 300
simulate_mana 1

ep_precision 0
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 200
ep_crit_rating 30
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 4
ep_haste_rating 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 30
ep_spellpower 150
ep_dps 7.5
ep_mana 250
ep_spirit 150
ep_mp5 20

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 0
bloodlust_casters 1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left 750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left 3000

rotation_priority_count 8
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 SW
rotation_priority3 SS
rotation_priority4 ES
rotation_priority5 MT
rotation_priority6 LS
rotation_priority7 LL
rotation_priority8 SR

miss 8.0
dodge 6.5
glancing 24.0
armor 10645
spell_miss 17.0
nature_resistance 0
fire_resistance 0
frost_resistance 0
arcane_resistance 0
shadow_resistance 0

armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff 2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff 20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat 688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier 0/99.7
spell_haste_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff 10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff 10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
haste_buff 3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase 3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff 52/52
agi_and_strength_buff 178/178
intellect_buff 60/60

replenishment 1
water_shield 0
mana_spring_totem 1
blessing_of_wisdom 0
judgement_of_wisdom 0

flask_elixir flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir -
potion potion_of_speed
food fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon ###
###############################################################################

race draenei
mh_speed 2.60
oh_speed 1.60
mh_dps 171.3
oh_dps 156.6
mh_crit 31.46
oh_crit 31.46
mh_hit 10.86
oh_hit 10.86
mh_expertise_rating 153.00
oh_expertise_rating 153.00
ap 3699
melee_haste 6.58
armor_penetration 3.00
str 129
agi 845
int 542
spi 153
spellpower 1109
spell_crit 23.85
spell_hit 13.57
spell_haste 5.06
max_mana 12246
mp5 0

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue flametongue

mh_enchant berserking
oh_enchant berserking

mh_weapon -
oh_weapon -

trinket1 grim_toll
trinket2 fury_of_the_five_flights

totem 40322

set_bonus1 naxx_melee_4
set_bonus2 naxx_melee_2
set_bonus3 -

metagem relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant -
cloak_enchant -

glyph_major1 stormstrike
glyph_major2 flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3 windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1 -
glyph_minor2 -
glyph_minor3 -

ancestral_knowledge 5/5
improved_shields 0/3
mental_dexterity 3/3
shamanistic_focus 1/1
flurry 5/5
elemental_weapons 3/3
unleashed_rage 3/3
weapon_mastery 3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness 3/3
improved_stormstrike 0/2
static_shock 3/3
maelstrom_weapon 5/5

convection 0/5
concussion 5/5
call_of_flame 0/3
elemental_devastation 3/3
reverberation 0/5
elemental_focus 0/1
elemental_fury 5/5
call_of_thunder 0/1
unrelenting_storm 0/3
elemental_precision 0/3
lightning_mastery 0/5
elemental_oath 0/2
lightning_overload 0/5
lava_flows 0/3
storm_earth_and_fire 0/3
shamanism 0/5
#2086SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3hozzer
This is likely what's causing the problem, these should reflect the new percentage values of 20/20 and 5/5 respectively:
armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 1260/1260

This may not have anything to do with your problem, but you probably want to adjust this to at least 1 before running EP calcs:
ep_precision 0

Again, not likely to cause the problem you're seeing, but 4 piece bonuses include the appropriate 2 piece bonus, so you can remove this:
set_bonus2 naxx_melee_2
#2087SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shinwei
Originally Posted by hozzer View Post
This is likely what's causing the problem, these should reflect the new percentage values of 20/20 and 5/5 respectively:
armor_debuff_major 3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor 1260/1260

This may not have anything to do with your problem, but you probably want to adjust this to at least 1 before running EP calcs:
ep_precision 0

Again, not likely to cause the problem you're seeing, but 4 piece bonuses include the appropriate 2 piece bonus, so you can remove this:
set_bonus2 naxx_melee_2
Thanks! That solved it!

I wonder how those armor debuff numbers got so high though, as I never adjusted them manually before.
#2088SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
The config_lvl80 seems to have incorrect values for those 2. You should use the config.txt file for your base config.
#2089SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Sprinter
Vista SP2

I installed the Vista SP2 on both my PC and Laptop and EP Calculation doesnt seem to work anymore.
--> Enhancement Shaman Simulator has stopped working.

EDIT: Oh, and it would be cool to have Mjolnir Runestone in the trinket list :-)

Last edited by Sprinter : 05/29/09 at 2:47 PM.
#2090SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mengus
How do people deal with setting EP when you're already capped? I know some folks have mentioned setting EP values of capped stats to '2' just so when looking at a new piece of gear, they have a better idea how good it is by itself...

There are times when current EP values will show that a possible upgrade is really a downgrade, but if you get 2 pieces, and they both lack hit, all of a sudden the EP value for hit will skyrocket... Also, if you're currently gemming for a lot of hit and/or expertise, that may also skew your EP values one way....
#2091SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
I personally do not look to compare piece 1 with piece 2 in a vacuum. I know what I have determined to be BiS for me atm (heroic, non hard mode) as a whole set. And I also know what are second BiS per slot, such that if no one else wants them, I will take them until what I want drops.
#2092SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Morelis
If you're in a position to reach the hit soft cap/expertise hard cap through gems you're best off setting the value for those two stats to whatever your highest stack-able stat is, generally 2 for AP.

If you're at or past the hit soft cap without using any gems then set hit to the EP over the soft cap, around 1.5-1.7 for most. Expertise I just leave at 2 and remind myself that's it's useless past the cap when evaluating items that have it.
#2093SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rokshan
I guess, I habe discovered a bug in conjuction with the rawr export option and enhsim:

If the Trinket Blood of the Old God is equiped in Rawr and exported to Enhsim it gets an itemnumber (45522), but doesn't sim. I don't know, if it simply isn't implemented yet, because manually it can not be chosen as trinket or if there is a bug in the export etc. The Bug is not that worse, because the pyrite infuser proc works and is only 50 ap less, but its annoying to chose it every time, when exporting from rawr.
#2094SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by rokshan View Post
I guess, I habe discovered a bug in conjuction with the rawr export option and enhsim:

If the Trinket Blood of the Old God is equiped in Rawr and exported to Enhsim it gets an itemnumber (45522), but doesn't sim. I don't know, if it simply isn't implemented yet, because manually it can not be chosen as trinket or if there is a bug in the export etc. The Bug is not that worse, because the pyrite infuser proc works and is only 50 ap less, but its annoying to chose it every time, when exporting from rawr.
Not a bug its not implemented yet in EnhSim.
#2095SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Ciege
Im getting VERY skewed EP values from EnhSim. At expertise cap and hit cap (i placed them just below the caps in order to try and prevent the errors i have been receiving lately) i get messages saying i am over the cap still. Tried adjusting Ep Values in the sim to compensate, but unless i give expertise and hit a value of 1, im over the cap, which i know isnt true. Posting my "current EP Values" that im not going to use, and my config file.

Config:
### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         73
max_lag                         290
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    2
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    600

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              SW

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20/20
armor_debuff_minor              5/5
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    1
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         29.47
oh_crit                         29.47
mh_hit                          11.28
oh_hit                          11.28
mh_expertise_rating             140
oh_expertise_rating             140
ap                              3882
melee_haste                     9.59
armor_penetration               9.17
str                             135
agi                             855
int                             539
spi                             155
spellpower                      1438
spell_crit                      21.72
spell_hit                       13.99
spell_haste                     9.59
max_mana                        12201
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        fury_of_the_five_flights
trinket2                        pyrite_infuser

totem                           totem_of_the_dancing_flame

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

EP Calculation Output:
EnhSim version 1.7.0

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.13364% (29.7377 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2067.59
ap                        1.00      -0.00     2067.38        -0.20
crit rating               -113.98   0.36      2084.25        16.66
hit rating                -113.39   0.36      2078.40        10.81
expertise rating          -0.00     0.00      0.00           -2067.59
haste rating              -99.61    0.32      2078.03        10.44
armor penetration rating  -82.85    0.26      2071.54        3.95
spellpower                -148.74   0.47      2080.82        13.23
mh dps                    -979.76   3.11      2098.72        31.13
oh dps                    -416.74   1.32      2080.83        13.24
strength                  1.10      
agility                   -28.97    
intelligence*             -19.13    
spirit                    -0.00     0.00      0.00           -2067.59
mana                      -0.00     0.00      0.00           -2067.59
mp5                       -0.00     0.00      0.00           -2067.59

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.

elapsed simulation time: 50000.00h
elapsed real time: 130.30s
simulation speed: 1381469x
I know ive had the problem with the negative EP Values before but cannot seem to remember how i fixed it last time.

Also it says i have an approximate OOM time of 30-40% of the time, i dont know why it says this because in 25 man raids i never oom, even saving Shamanistic Rage for damage mitigation rather than any needed mana regen. Anyone know why this is? Alot of questions and no answers, i hate doing it but if there was a place to say was the bible for my research, this is it. Anyways, thanks for all your hard work, i love the sim!

~Ciege

Last edited by Ciege : 06/01/09 at 1:22 PM.
#2096SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Ciege View Post
Im getting VERY skewed EP values from EnhSim. At expertise cap and hit cap (i placed them just below the caps in order to try and prevent the errors i have been receiving lately) i get messages saying i am over the cap still. Tried adjusting Ep Values in the sim to compensate, but unless i give expertise and hit a value of 1, im over the cap, which i know isnt true. Posting my "current EP Values" that im not going to use, and my config file.

Config:
<snip>

I know ive had the problem with the negative EP Values before but cannot seem to remember how i fixed it last time.

Also it says i have an approximate OOM time of 30-40% of the time, i dont know why it says this because in 25 man raids i never oom, even saving Shamanistic Rage for damage mitigation rather than any needed mana regen. Anyone know why this is? Alot of questions and no answers, i hate doing it but if there was a place to say was the bible for my research, this is it. Anyways, thanks for all your hard work, i love the sim!

~Ciege
You're using 140 expertise rating, which is the cap, and that is why you're getting the message about expertise. Adding expertise for EP rating won't give anything meaningful; generally people give it a value of 2 EP because you'll gem for it if you can't get enough from gear, and it's pretty easy to avoid the cap especially if you stick to mail gear.

Regarding the mana issue, I see this as well. Looking at a Kologarn parse from this week I see the largest discrepancy on Judgement of Wisdom. Enhsim is showing me with only 8.94 MPS from this ability, and I actually receive 16351 over about 250 second for about 65.4 MPS. In comparison, enhsim is giving me 36.32 MPS from replenishment while I only get about 26.4 (though this could be an uptime issue).

I'm using enhsim 1.7.0, I can provide config if necessary but I imagine it can be easily reproduced. If you're interested in examining the actual WoL log, you can find it here (buffs gained):

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
#2097SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Klejj
This is why you're running oom in the simulator:

rotation_priority_count 5
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 SS
rotation_priority3 ES
rotation_priority4 LL
rotation_priority5 SW


You need to tell the simulator to use SR.
#2098SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
You probably also want to say to use a fire totem too? eg: Searing or Magma totem? Seriously what's with people changing all the defaults in config.txt when they don't know what they are doing?
#2099SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Saabu
Originally Posted by Octanus View Post
I have successfully downloaded EnhSim1.7.0.rar, added my stats, but when I try to run the Enhsim.exe application it comes up with an error and shuts down.

Am I doing anything wrong?
I'm having the exact same problems as a few of the posters above. (vista)

I can simulate for dps, but can not calculate the EP values without the crash.

Looks like it may be the DEP (data execution protection) but I am unable to disable it for this executable.

Last edited by Saabu : 06/03/09 at 9:29 AM.
#2100SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bellante
I was having problems in windows 7 with the EP calculation crashing enhsim, but after I set both enhsim.exe and enhsimgui.exe to run in xp service pack 3 compatibility, the problem went away. See if that works.
#2101SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
There is a known bug in v1.7.0 where the new parameters for gloves_enchant and cloak_enchant are read but never initialised. I've posted a fix which Tukez has acknowledged is probably the cause of the crash however he has not yet posted a new version.
#2102SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
For what it's worth, I was hitting a crash as well. It seems that it would always happen on the armor pen calculation (I don't do expertise or mana sim though). If I disabled armor pen calculations it completed just fine.
#2103SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tortugapir8
Based on Torodo's excellent post about the Sim miscalculating the value of Armor Penetration I've dusted off my C++ skills and have had a whack at the source.

I've managed to add some missing trinkets (Dark Matter, Blood of the Old God, Mjolnir, and the Elemental Focus Stone) but I'm having troubles trying to work in the new Armor Penetration formula.

What the sim is currently doing seems very strange to me. Next paragraph for the technical / nerdy:

The sim is taking the defined 'armor' value in the config, applying the the armor_major_debuff and armor_minor_debuff directly to this value giving a reduced total AC value. This debuffed armor value is then multiplied by what appears to be 100% - Armor Penetration config'd value for the MH and 100% - (ArmPen / 2) for the OH to be used as a new armor base value for calculating a damage multiplier which acts as a damage reducer. So this calculated armor base value divided by the sum of the calculated armor base plus the expected armor value of the target mob and this is used as the final damage multiplier.

The problem is when I try to rewrite the formula which GC has posted, the updated sim code looks like:

//compute constant max armor cap
acmax_ = static_cast<int>(400.0 + (85.0 * TARGET_LEVEL) + (4.5 * 85.0 * (TARGET_LEVEL - 59.0)));

// calculate effective armor due to debuffs
acdebuff_ = static_cast<int>(armor_base_ * (1.0f - armor_debuff_major_) * (1.0f - armor_debuff_minor_));

//the cap is an average of max and debuffed armor
accap_ = static_cast<int>((acmax_ + acdebuff_) / 3.0);

//apply armor penetration additively to the armor cap to get armor reduction
acreduction_ = static_cast<f32>(accap_ * (1.0f - armor_penetration_));

//damage reduction is an inverse function of reduction
damage_reduction_ = static_cast<f32>((acdebuff_ - acreduction_) / acdebuff_);

std::cout << "NEW DAMAGE REDUCTION FORMULA\n";
std::cout << "armor_pen raw function val: " << (armor_penetration_) << "\n";
std::cout << "max boss AC" << acmax_ << " | debuffed armor total " << acdebuff_ << " | cap for reduction " << accap_ << " | armor reduced by ArmPen " << acreduction_ << " | damage bonus multiplier " << damage_reduction_ << "\n\n";
But since the armor_penetration value in the sim is based on inverse percentages and some odd OH handling, I get very out of whack values as can be seen in those print debug statements:

NEW DAMAGE REDUCTION FORMULA
armor_pen raw function val: 0.95
max boss AC16635 | debuffed armor total 8515 | cap for reduction 8383 | armor reduced by ArmPen 419.15 | damage bonus multiplier 0.950775

NEW DAMAGE REDUCTION FORMULA
armor_pen raw function val: 0.453095
max boss AC16635 | debuffed armor total 8515 | cap for reduction 8383 | armor reduced by ArmPen 4584.7 | damage bonus multiplier 0.461573
As you can see, that armor_pen value being fed in to this function is pretty unusable for me due to the new formula. I'll try to experiment with modifying the multipliers but not only will this probably throw all sorts of procs and modifier out of whack, I don't think during EP calculations I'd be getter anything remotely useable without overhauling a lot more than meets the eye.

Hopefully Tukez is already on top of it as it looks like it's going to take some effort.
#2104SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bacham
I ve tried many variants of stats and items in enh sim due i have plenty of them and i can say that that it gave me nothing. I have good results on most of bosses using haste and critbased items in Ulduar but iam still far 100-300 dps from Wowmeteronline Europe top 20 on Kologarn and Iron council, for example. Only explanation that i have is difference in raid tactics. Can someone here help me to optimize my dps on this encounters and sorry for my eng if there any mistakes not my native lang.
#2105SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by tortugapir8 View Post
Based on Torodo's excellent post about the Sim miscalculating the value of Armor Penetration I've dusted off my C++ skills and have had a whack at the source.

I've managed to add some missing trinkets (Dark Matter, Blood of the Old God, Mjolnir, and the Elemental Focus Stone) but I'm having troubles trying to work in the new Armor Penetration formula.
The post by GC was later corrected as it had some mistakes there is a lengthy discussion on the combat ratings thread about it. The formulae was worked out and implemented in Rawr last month as follows :

        // http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16473618356&sid=1&pageNo=4 post 77.
        // Ghostcrawler vs theorycraft.
        /// <summary>
        /// Returns how much physical damage is reduced from Armor. (0.095 = 9.5% reduction)
        /// </summary>
        /// <param name="AttackerLevel">Level of Attacker</param>
        /// <param name="TargetLevel">Level of Target</param>
        /// <param name="TargetArmor">Armor of Target</param>
        /// <param name="ArmorIgnoreDebuffs">Armor reduction on target as result of Debuffs (Sunder/Fearie Fire)</param>
        /// <param name="ArmorIgnoreBuffs">Armor reduction buffs on player (Mace Spec, Battle Stance, etc)</param>
        /// <param name="ArmorPenetrationRating">Penetration Rating (Can be rolled into ArmorIgnoreBuffs and then set this to 0)</param>
        /// <returns>How much physical damage is reduced from Armor. (0.095 = 9.5% reduction)</returns>
        public static float GetArmorDamageReduction(int AttackerLevel, float TargetArmor,
            float ArmorIgnoreDebuffs, float ArmorIgnoreBuffs, float ArmorPenetrationRating)
        {
            float ArmorConstant = 400 + 85 * AttackerLevel + 4.5f * 85 * (AttackerLevel - 59);
            TargetArmor *= (1f - ArmorIgnoreDebuffs) * (1f - ArmorIgnoreBuffs);
            float ArPCap = Math.Min((TargetArmor + ArmorConstant) / 3f, TargetArmor);
            TargetArmor -= ArPCap * Math.Min(1f, GetArmorPenetrationFromRating(ArmorPenetrationRating));
            
            return 1f - ArmorConstant / (ArmorConstant + TargetArmor);
        }
Yes its C# not C++ but hopefully would give you a steer as to what needs fixed. I'm keenly awaiting this fix as I really can't do much more on Rawr.Enhance without a fixed EnhSim to compare my results to.
#2106SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tortugapir8
Thank you very much Levva, that was hugely helpful! I've updated the damage_reduction code in EnhSim to the following:

//compute constant max armor cap
acmax_ = static_cast<int>(400.0 + (85.0 * ATTACKER_LEVEL) + (4.5 * 85.0 * (ATTACKER_LEVEL - 59.0)));

// calculate effective armor due to debuffs
acdebuff_ = static_cast<int>(armor_base_ * (1.0f - armor_debuff_major_) * (1.0f - armor_debuff_minor_));

//the cap is an average of max and debuffed armor
accap_ = static_cast<int>((acdebuff_ + acmax_) / 3.0);

//apply armor penetration additively to the armor cap to get armor reduction
acdebuff_ = static_cast<int>(acdebuff_ - (accap_ * (1.0f - armor_penetration_)));

//damage reduction is an inverse function of reduction
damage_reduction_ = static_cast<f32>(1.0f - (acdebuff_ / ((467.5 * TARGET_LEVEL) + acdebuff_ - 22167.5)));
And is looking good for overall DPS simulations. However, I'm personally getting lower numbers then I expected for the calculated EP value of Armor Penetration

WARNING! The following is a very non-official version of EnhSim I've compiled for TESTING
This build is based on the 1.7.0 source and contains the following modifications:
  • Added support for the following trinkets: Dark Matter, Blood of the Old God, Mjolnir, and the Elemental Focus Stone
  • Updated Armor Penetration formula (exact changes can be seen above)

NOTE: Since I do not have the source to the EnhSIm GUI you'll be unable to select these new trinkets in the dropdown, however the sim handles them being imported properly (by item ID) or by editing you config with either the item ID or the following constants:
  • Dark Matter => 'dark_matter' or id # 46038
  • Blood of the Old God => 'blood_of_the_old_god' or id # 45522
  • Mjolnir => 'mjolnir_runestone' or id # 45931
  • Elemental Focus Stone => 'elemental_focus_stone' or id # 45866

NOTE: I was unable to compile this with multi-threaded support so you'll probably see a moderate performance hit between this and the official 1.7.0 version.


Can some other people get me back some comparison numbers between the 1.7.0 sim'd DPS and EP calculation vs this build? Please include your config file as well. Also, rather than cluttering this thread, please email me the results (the address to send it to can be seen in the enhsim output window) or PM me here.

New EnhSim executable can be downloaded at: http://www.apatheia.org/download/enhsim.exe

Edit: New version 1.7.0.3

MD5: F65AEF34965BAC370D22C4894958C761

Last edited by tortugapir8 : 06/17/09 at 11:02 AM.
#2107SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
EmeraldArcana
Unix Makefile

Hi guys, this isn't really a theorycrafting contribution, but I thought others might find it useful.

I saw that there were Mac OS X (Leopard) instructions for using XCode to compile EnhSim. However, I am a command-line person, so I thought I'd write a Makefile instead.

To use this, create a file called "Makefile" and copy and paste the contents below into it. Watch that the "spaces" on the lines are actually "tabs" (that's a common gotcha with Makefiles). Put the Makefile into the "sources" directory, launch a terminal, go to the directory, and type "make" to compile it. I'm assuming that those of you who know what Makefiles are won't have a problem with using them.

IMO, it's much easier than using XCode. It works on Mac OS X 10.5.7. If we assume that EnhSim compiles on Linux and other UNIX-like systems (I don't have a Linux to test this on) then the Makefile should work on those systems too.

I hope someone else finds it useful! If you want to run new versions of EnhSim on your OS then this'll be an easy way to get yourself going.

CC=g++
CFLAGS=-Wall -g
LIBS=
DEFINES=-DNOTHREADS
LDFLAGS=
SRCS=consumables.cpp effects.cpp enchants.cpp enhsim.cpp enhsimconfig.cpp enhsimoutput.cpp event.cpp event_queue.cpp globalutil.cpp hand.cpp items.cpp main.cpp metagems.cpp normal.cpp rotation.cpp setbonuses.cpp skills.cpp stats.cpp talents.cpp totems.cpp trinkets.cpp weapon_enchants.cpp
OBJS=$(SRCS:.cpp=.o)
EXECUTABLE=enhsim

.PHONY: depend clean

all: $(EXECUTABLE)
	@echo successfully compiled

$(EXECUTABLE): $(OBJS)
	$(CC) $(CFLAGS) $(INCLUDES) -o $(EXECUTABLE) $(OBJS) $(LDFLAGS) $(LIBS) $(DEFINES)

.cpp.o:
	$(CC) $(CFLAGS) $(INCLUDES) $(DEFINES) $(LIBS) -c $< -o $@ $(DEFINES)

clean:
	rm *.o core *~ $(EXECUTABLE)

depend: $(SRCS)
	makedepend $(INCLUES) $^

Last edited by EmeraldArcana : 06/06/09 at 2:55 AM.
#2108SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by tortugapir8 View Post
NOTE: I was unable to compile this with multi-threaded support so you'll probably see a moderate performance hit between this and the official 1.7.0 version.
You are aware that the source of v1.7.0 contains a bug in the NON multi threaded support that frequently silently fails to complete the simulation? If you don't compile with ZTHREADS enabled it will often fail to run at all or give some really odd results. My bug report is at EnhSim: NOTHREADS option code doesn't simulate

Have you also fixed that issue?

Did you also fix the glove_enchant, cloak_enchant not being initialised as per bug report on EnhSim website? This is what causes the occasional crash on Vista when doing EP values calcs. My bug report is at EnhSim: Gloves & Cloak Enchant Null Pointer

It would also be useful if you could apply the fix for the Flametongue Weapon co-efficients bug see my report EnhSim: Flametongue co-efficient incorrect

When compiling your code have you added a unique version number eg: v1.7.0.1 so we know ppl are using your version for data comparisons?

Last edited by Levva : 06/06/09 at 6:01 PM.
#2109SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Trollpriest
Minor quirk I've been having since updating my versions of SAA and EnhSim, my SAA exports have been making my weapons both slower by .1. Nothing huge but it's still pretty annoying having to manually change every export. Anyone else been hit with something like this?
#2110SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3draizen
Originally Posted by Trollpriest View Post
Minor quirk I've been having since updating my versions of SAA and EnhSim, my SAA exports have been making my weapons both slower by .1. Nothing huge but it's still pretty annoying having to manually change every export. Anyone else been hit with something like this?
yes i get the same behavior, got it since v4.35. ticket on WoW AddOns - ShockAndAwe - CurseForge.com is open
#2111SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
tortugapir8
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
You are aware that the source of v1.7.0 contains a bug in the NON multi threaded support that frequently silently fails to complete the simulation...
I was totally unaware of that bug, but I've been having no problems simulating without ZTHREADS, perhaps it's something about my development environment (win2k3 server, VS 2008). So far the few people sending me sim results don't seem to be having any problems, strange.

Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I've recompiled with this fix, thanks for the info!

Originally Posted by Levva View Post
It would also be useful if you could apply the fix for the Flametongue Weapon co-efficients bug see my report EnhSim: Flametongue co-efficient incorrect
I've adjusted this in the latest version, thanks for the update!

Originally Posted by Levva View Post
When compiling your code have you added a unique version number eg: v1.7.0.1 so we know ppl are using your version for data comparisons?
Yup, my first initial version was 1.7.0 revB, but now I'm going with another minor revision extension, so the link below is 1.7.0.2



Edit: Link to 1.7.0.3
New EnhSim executable (1.7.0.3) can be downloaded at: http://www.apatheia.org/download/enhsim.exe

MD5 Hash: F65AEF34965BAC370D22C4894958C761


Thanks to those sending me results, it's looking good!

Last edited by tortugapir8 : 06/17/09 at 11:03 AM.
#2112SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
What sort of differences in DPS and EP values are you seeing between the your branch and Tukez' core?
#2113SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tortugapir8
They are pretty close. For my config in 1.7.0 I was getting:

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1869.62   29.24%    82.28
windfury            765.12    11.97%    6.96
flametongue         558.53    8.74%     52.31
stormstrike         395.78    6.19%     6.73      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           338.39    5.29%     8.08      16.64     10.00%
magma totem         526.01    8.23%     2.90      53.87     32.36%
earth shock         576.91    9.02%     8.82      38.31     23.02%
lightning bolt      850.39    13.3%     8.89      54.32     32.63%
lightning shield    213.45    3.34%     0.82      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       299.73    4.69%     0.40      3.31      1.99%

DPS                 6393.92
In 1.7.0.2:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1913.93   29.76%    82.28
windfury            785.06    12.21%    6.98
flametongue         542.51    8.44%     52.29
stormstrike         405.60    6.31%     6.73      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           338.42    5.26%     8.07      16.62     9.98%
magma totem         526.36    8.18%     2.90      53.86     32.33%
earth shock         576.87    8.97%     8.82      38.27     22.98%
lightning bolt      854.37    13.29%    8.92      54.51     32.73%
lightning shield    217.69    3.38%     0.83      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       270.19    4.2%      0.40      3.31      1.98%

DPS                 6431.00
It's pretty much as expected for me, a little more white damage due to the new formula for damage reduction due to armor, and a little hit on Flametounge from the new co-efficient.

The only thing that bugs me still is the EP calculations. In 1.7.0 I get:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6394.55
ap                        1.00      0.62      6518.69        124.14
crit rating               1.66      1.03      6425.40        30.85
hit rating                1.58      0.98      6423.93        29.38
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6394.55
haste rating              1.54      0.95      6423.14        28.59
armor penetration rating  1.44      0.90      6421.41        26.86
spellpower                0.97      0.60      6484.63        90.08
mh dps                    5.36      3.32      6419.48        24.93
oh dps                    3.37      2.09      6410.22        15.67
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.71
intelligence*             1.35
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6394.55
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6394.55
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6394.55
Where as in 1.7.0.2:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6432.86
ap                        1.00      0.62      6556.03        123.17
crit rating               1.69      1.04      6464.11        31.25
hit rating                1.61      0.99      6462.62        29.77
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6432.86
haste rating              1.50      0.93      6460.61        27.75
armor penetration rating  1.32      0.81      6457.15        24.30
spellpower                0.97      0.60      6522.54        89.68
mh dps                    5.41      3.33      6457.86        25.00
oh dps                    2.41      1.49      6444.00        11.14
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.69
intelligence*             1.37
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6432.86
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6432.86
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6432.86
I was expecting to see ArmorPen being given more weight due to the new formula not less. Still working on the rhyme and reason behind it and trying to build some test cases I can actually proof against.
#2114SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
I was expecting to see ArmorPen being given more weight due to the new formula not less. Still working on the rhyme and reason behind it and trying to build some test cases I can actually proof against.
Now this is just an assumption in my case of what is going on, but here it goes:

First of all, we need to realize that the ArP EP is based on the relative value of ArP versus AP. So if AP goes up in terms of how good it is, then ArP EP goes down. With that in mind - I suspect that the extra gain that the base ArP debuffs on the target (sunder armor, etc.) give us in terms of hitting harder (white, SS, wf) increases the AP value more than the increase ArP would give us.

Quick question: Any idea why wolves simulate 20 DPS lower in yours than in 1.7.0?
#2115SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post

Quick question: Any idea why wolves simulate 20 DPS lower in yours than in 1.7.0?
His windfury was 20 dps less too, random effects more than likely.
#2116SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Well, I assumed WF would be lower due to lower effects from ArP. But actually that could explain wolves too, since their damage is melee damage, and I assume mitigated my armor.
#2117SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Well, I assumed WF would be lower due to lower effects from ArP. But actually that could explain wolves too, since their damage is melee damage, and I assume mitigated my armor.
Unless something has changed (ie. the pet change GC was talking about) wolves do not inherit your ArP.
#2118SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Unless something has changed (ie. the pet change GC was talking about) wolves do not inherit your ArP.
They do not need to. I assume he was using some ArP debuffs on the mob (i.e. sunder armor) - in which case the new ArP calculations would increase the dogs damage.
#2119SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
Sim inaccurate with FT Glyph

I've noticed that there is a bit of a problem with the Flametongue Glyph on EnhSim. On the character stats you are supposed to put in your stats as they appear on your character sheet and of course Flametongue Glyph's extra 2% spell crit shows up there. However when you put the Flametongue Glyph into the simulator it adds another 2% spell crit on top of the 2% already added to your character page.

I ran the sim with my stats with no glyphs and without the 2% spell crit from FT Glpyh to get my base DPS and got these results;

DPS 6910.88
Lightning Bolt Crit% 43.05
Earth Shock Crit% 43.04
Flametongue Crit% 43.03

I then ran the sim adding 2% spell crit as if I had the FT Glyph without adding the FT Glyph as one of my major glyphs in the sim and got these results;

DPS 6956.92
Lightning Bolt Crit% 45.15
Earth Shock Crit% 45.01
Flametongue Crit% 45.02

I then added the FT Glyph into the sim but removed the 2% spell crit I had previously added and got these results;

DPS 6957.25
Lightning Bolt Crit% 45.04
Earth Shock Crit% 45.05
Flametongue Crit% 45.06

Lastly I ran the sim with the Glyph added into the sim and with the 2% spell crit as you would see it on your character page and got these results;

DPS 7002.34
Lightning Bolt Crit% 46.91
Earth Shock Crit% 47.04
Flametongue Crit% 47.02

As you can see this shows that when using the FT Glyph if you copy your stats and glyphs from the character page the sim treats it as if you get an 4% additional spell crit rather than the correct 2%. That is, the sim double counts the 2% extra spell crit when you copy your characters stats and glyphs.
#2120SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Are you by chance leaving the flametongue weapon buff active when you copy your stats over?
#2121SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
When I ran the sim on these last tests no. I copied my stats without it, then added the crit manually as if I had the buff for the second test without adding the glyph to the sim, input just the glyph and assumed no buff for the third, and assumed both the buff on and the glyph in the sim for the last one.

Normally I would copy the stats with buffs active, I don't recall seeing anywhere on the Sim's instructions that I should not have, all it said is copy your stats as you see them on the character sheet. I had assumed before that the Flametongue Glyph on the sim was just a text placeholder that didn't change your stats at all because you are instructed to copy your stats, which already included the 2% crit.

If I'm mistaken and there is indeed instructions somewhere in the sim that tell you to leave the FT Buff off when copying your stats when using the FT Glyph perhaps it should be more prominent.
#2122SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
The method you used on your 3rd test is how you should be doing it.
#2123SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
I see. I would say that maybe that should be changed or make it more clear that you shouldn't have the buff active when you copy stats when using the FT Glyph. I would assume a lot of people run the sim as I had, copying stats with the buff active and with the FT Glyph in the sim.
#2124SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Atren
FT is no go already due to spellpower part regardless about glyph. So basically any weapon enchant that modifies your stats should not be active.
#2125SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Spaceinvader
Originally Posted by tortugapir8 View Post
New EnhSim executable (1.7.0.2) can be downloaded at: http://www.apatheia.org/download/1702/enhsim.exe
You might want to fix the link in your post. The URL displayed is correct but clicking on the link will load a different URL which will download Rev B instead of 1.7.0.2 (fixed in the quoted text). I downloaded the old version by mistake and I imagine I am not the only one.

Thanks for all your hard work -- it is much appreciated.
#2126SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tortugapir8
Originally Posted by Spaceinvader View Post
You might want to fix the link in your post. The URL displayed is correct but clicking on the link will load a different URL which will download Rev B instead of 1.7.0.2 (fixed in the quoted text). I downloaded the old version by mistake and I imagine I am not the only one.

Thanks for all your hard work -- it is much appreciated.
Whoops thanks for the catch, link fixed in the post.
#2127SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Vespasian
Haste vs Crit ep values for Ulduar gear level

I am experiencing contradictory results when applying calculated EP values to my set up.

I am using the new newly provided .exe, but my results are consistent with the old .exe (thank you for the update btw).

I am using the following config:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         160
max_lag                         170
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         33.79
oh_crit                         33.79
mh_hit                          11.41
oh_hit                          11.41
mh_expertise_rating             142.00
oh_expertise_rating             142.00
ap                              4274
melee_haste                     12.21
armor_penetration               6.17
str                             135
agi                             856
int                             534
spi                             155
spellpower                      1282
spell_crit                      26.00
spell_hit                       14.26
spell_haste                     9.39
max_mana                        12126
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        blood_of_the_old_god
trinket2                        mjolnir_runestone

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
And from that are achieving the following EP values:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6862.06
ap                        1.00      0.65      6992.28        130.22
crit rating               1.74      1.14      6896.11        34.05
hit rating                1.63      1.06      6893.89        31.83
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6862.06
haste rating              1.33      0.86      6888.00        25.95
armor penetration rating  1.51      0.98      6891.47        29.41
spellpower                0.96      0.62      6955.80        93.74
mh dps                    5.11      3.33      6887.02        24.96
oh dps                    2.79      1.81      6875.66        13.61
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.69      
intelligence*             1.39      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6862.06
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6862.06
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6862.06

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.74, HitRating=1.63, HasteRating=1.33, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.51, SpellDamage=0.96, MainHandDps=5.11, OffHandDps=2.79, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.69, Intellect=1.39, Spirit=0.00, Mana=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.33&dps=5.11&mp5=0.00&mcr=1.74&odps=2.79&spd=0.96&Agi=1.69&mhit=1.63&Int=1.39&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.51&Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 49.42s
simulation speed: 728435x
And achieving the following dps:

EnhSim version 1.7.0.2 by Verges: scionweb@gmail.com

................................................................................

MH:
miss                242983         9.57%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            609388         24.00%
hit                 466990         18.39%
crit                1220035        48.04%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.48%
procs/swings        14.19%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 407157         49.02%
crit                423479         50.98%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 190113         49.16%
crit                196600         50.84%

OH:
miss                243897         9.60%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            610396         24.04%
hit                 464712         18.30%
crit                1220391        48.06%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1887846        59.94%
crit                1261777        40.06%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 189447         48.99%
crit                197266         51.01%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 306932         60.08%
crit                203912         39.92%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 228191         48.82%
crit                239220         51.18%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 364795         60.00%
crit                243217         40.00%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 438739         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               117156         6.51%
glancing            431638         23.99%
hit                 1041948        57.92%
crit                208136         11.57%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 57.78

flurry uptime                  95.19%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   78.17%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.48%
oh enchant uptime              37.34%
trinket1 uptime                18.08%
trinket2 uptime                20.61%
totem uptime                   64.45%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2127.44   31.01%    84.65
windfury            842.02    12.27%    6.92
flametongue         549.45    8.01%     52.49
stormstrike         422.09    6.15%     6.45      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           348.81    5.08%     7.79      21.46     10.54%
magma totem         503.14    7.33%     2.66      49.55     24.34%
earth shock         581.53    8.48%     8.51      55.02     27.03%
lightning bolt      977.86    14.25%    10.13     74.25     36.47%
lightning shield    218.99    3.19%     0.81      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       289.99    4.23%     0.40      3.31      1.62%

DPS                 6861.32
MPS                 203.58
MP2min              24430.01
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 4.98s
simulation speed: 722311x
I am particularly interested in my haste value, which seems abnormally low. My intuition tells me that the actual value of haste is much higher. When I manipulate my config favoring haste over crit (applying haste enchant and swapping 2x ap/crit gems for ap/haste gems = + 1.55% haste and -0.34% crit/24.2 AP) I experience a dps increase- this is despite the EP value of haste being significantly lower than crit.

EnhSim version 1.7.0.2 by Verges: scionweb@gmail.com

................................................................................

MH:
miss                246769         9.59%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            617354         24.00%
hit                 480686         18.68%
crit                1227942        47.73%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.29%
procs/swings        14.01%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 409001         49.32%
crit                420305         50.68%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 190404         49.27%
crit                196040         50.73%

OH:
miss                246170         9.57%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            618046         24.02%
hit                 480001         18.66%
crit                1228534        47.75%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1912178        60.13%
crit                1268101        39.87%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 190634         49.33%
crit                195810         50.67%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 307476         60.23%
crit                203020         39.77%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 229925         49.21%
crit                237329         50.79%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 368112         60.12%
crit                244203         39.88%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 441784         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               116738         6.49%
glancing            432992         24.08%
hit                 1040844        57.89%
crit                207494         11.54%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 58.24

flurry uptime                  94.98%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   78.18%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.62%
oh enchant uptime              37.52%
trinket1 uptime                18.14%
trinket2 uptime                20.68%
totem uptime                   64.41%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2143.96   31.17%    85.76
windfury            836.51    12.16%    6.91
flametongue         553.92    8.05%     53.00
stormstrike         420.27    6.11%     6.44      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           346.88    5.04%     7.79      21.45     10.52%
magma totem         502.01    7.3%      2.66      49.51     24.27%
earth shock         580.42    8.44%     8.51      54.98     26.95%
lightning bolt      983.65    14.3%     10.21     74.77     36.65%
lightning shield    220.40    3.2%      0.82      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       289.21    4.21%     0.40      3.31      1.62%

DPS                 6877.22
MPS                 204.02
MP2min              24482.53
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 5.01s
simulation speed: 717846x
I am aware that haste peaks and troughs in relative value, but have been unable to find specific data supporting this. Is someone able to direct me to it?

More specifically:

1) Is my config incorrect?
2) Why am I getting more dps out of haste than crit when the EP value of haste is lower than crit?
3) Have other shaman at my gear level done extensive haste EP value testing? What values are your arriving at? A brief look at the top 20 shaman for XT (wowmeteronline) indicates a focus on crit over haste- what are the rest of you seeing?

Last edited by Vespasian : 06/11/09 at 11:59 AM.
#2128SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Please don't use the same numeric version style on non-official releases of the sim. Tag it with something that will make it clear it is a fork version(even if it's meant to be a short-lived fork). Like: EhnSim 1.7.0-Verges1, 1.7.0-Verges2 etc. Explains the source of the work, author of the fork and version of the fork.
#2129SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Deathicle
@Vespasian

The reason that your haste EP rating has fallen dramatically below hit/crit can be attributed too simply having 'too much' haste!

With 13.76% unbuffed haste, 20% WF, 25% flurry and 3% raid haste, your 2.6 weapons are attacking at 1.48 seconds each - just below the 1.5 speed 'threshold'. (Note, I am not saying you are doing less damage due to the 'wf pit' - you are still doing more overall damage due to more white attacks). When your hasted attack speeds fall between 1.4 and 1.49 seconds, the EP value of haste plummets.

If you are bothered by this, you can drop a few of your haste gems in favor of crit or hit. If you get exactly 12% haste unbuffed, that would put your hasted attack speed at 1.503 seconds. That's 302 haste rating in case you were wondering. Unfortunately you would have to swap out a piece of gear that has haste for one that doesn't - 23 haste and 2 8 haste gems isn't enough to get you back down to 302.

As a point of interest, if you are lucky enough to have the [Golden Saronite Dragon] or [The Masticator], you can afford to have up to 16.5% haste unbuffed (416 haste rating) and still stay above a 1.5 second attack speed threshold.

Last edited by Deathicle : 06/11/09 at 4:36 PM.
#2130SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
There is no true haste cap. As your weapon speed drops closer to a value that divides the 3s Windfury internal cooldown, the EP of an additional point in haste increases; the next potential proc after the cooldown is sooner. A 1.51s swing speed has a potential proc 0.02s after the cooldown, a 1.49s swing speed has a potential proc 1.47s after the cooldown. But as you add even more haste, the time before a potential proc falls again. (A 1.01s swing speed has a potential proc 0.03s after the cooldown.)

All that Windfury stuff aside, additional haste will always increase white weapon damage, Flametongue Weapon damage, Lightning Shield procs, and Maelstrom Weapon stacks.

Several people have plotted a graph of haste EP vs. current haste value. This ends up being a jagged graph. The general consensus at the time was to take a broader perspective when using EP values from enhsim, particularly for haste, hit, and expertise. For haste, use an EP value similar to that for agi or crit. Don't try to reduce haste on your gear to stay above the windfury threshold, but rather recognize that your haste EP will continue to increase past the threshold as your swing speed gets even faster.
#2131SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3clliche
Using Verges's version:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1712.81   29.24%    83.81
windfury            710.41    12.13%    6.95
flametongue         499.11    8.52%     54.29
stormstrike         317.18    5.42%     6.76      37.24     15.60%
lava lash           259.48    4.43%     8.32      22.92     9.60%
magma totem         522.18    8.92%     2.88      53.49     22.41%
earth shock         579.58    9.9%      8.99      58.09     24.33%
lightning bolt      786.34    13.42%    8.77      64.23     26.91%
lightning shield    241.29    4.12%     0.84      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       228.94    3.91%     0.33      2.75      1.15%

DPS                 5857.33
MPS                 238.73
MP2min              28647.32
MRPS                253.05
Out of mana time    0.46%
Using the 1.7.0 Tukez version:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1665.01   28.62%    83.80
windfury            690.53    11.87%    6.95
flametongue         513.64    8.83%     54.30
stormstrike         307.94    5.29%     6.76      37.24     15.60%
lava lash           259.64    4.46%     8.32      22.92     9.61%
magma totem         521.63    8.97%     2.87      53.44     22.40%
earth shock         579.83    9.97%     8.99      58.12     24.35%
lightning bolt      784.92    13.49%    8.76      64.16     26.89%
lightning shield    239.95    4.12%     0.83      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       253.99    4.37%     0.33      2.75      1.15%

DPS                 5817.08
MPS                 238.63
MP2min              28635.43
MRPS                251.75
Out of mana time    0.46%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 1.47s
simulation speed: 2452316x
Even reducing armor pen down to 0 there seems to be a round a 30 dps discrepency between the two simulators. Was anything other than the armor pen calculations changed for this new version?
#2132SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
Originally Posted by Jessamy View Post
There is no true haste cap. As your weapon speed drops closer to a value that divides the 3s Windfury internal cooldown, the EP of an additional point in haste increases; the next potential proc after the cooldown is sooner. A 1.51s swing speed has a potential proc 0.02s after the cooldown, a 1.49s swing speed has a potential proc 1.47s after the cooldown. But as you add even more haste, the time before a potential proc falls again. (A 1.01s swing speed has a potential proc 0.03s after the cooldown.)

All that Windfury stuff aside, additional haste will always increase white weapon damage, Flametongue Weapon damage, Lightning Shield procs, and Maelstrom Weapon stacks.

Several people have plotted a graph of haste EP vs. current haste value. This ends up being a jagged graph. The general consensus at the time was to take a broader perspective when using EP values from enhsim, particularly for haste, hit, and expertise. For haste, use an EP value similar to that for agi or crit. Don't try to reduce haste on your gear to stay above the windfury threshold, but rather recognize that your haste EP will continue to increase past the threshold as your swing speed gets even faster.
I did not say there was a haste cap. I simply said that with a 2.6 speed weapon, having more than 12% haste will push your attacks below 1.5 seconds between swings - resulting in higher overall damage but a dramatically lower EP value for additional haste. Additionally, I told him what to do if it bothers him.

However, I disagree with your statement that you should always use the same EP value for haste as we do with agi/crit/hit. Once you are below 1.5 and above 1.4 second speeds, your EP value for haste is much lower, meaning that all things being equal, your points are better spent upgrading your other statistics as they will provide the biggest 'bang' for the buck and a higher overall DPS. That is, after all, exactly what the simulator is telling you. Unlike hit, which maintains a fairly high rating beyond even the spell hit cap, haste is not always the best choice. It simply has multiple 'soft caps'.
#2133SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Talaus-Mok'Nathal
Originally Posted by Deathicle View Post
I did not say there was a haste cap. I simply said that with a 2.6 speed weapon, having more than 12% haste will push your attacks below 1.5 seconds between swings - resulting in higher overall damage but a dramatically lower EP value for additional haste. Additionally, I told him what to do if it bothers him.

However, I disagree with your statement that you should always use the same EP value for haste as we do with agi/crit/hit. Once you are below 1.5 and above 1.4 second speeds, your EP value for haste is much lower, meaning that all things being equal, your points are better spent upgrading your other statistics as they will provide the biggest 'bang' for the buck and a higher overall DPS. That is, after all, exactly what the simulator is telling you. Unlike hit, which maintains a fairly high rating beyond even the spell hit cap, haste is not always the best choice. It simply has multiple 'soft caps'.
I'm finding completely different results. I'm currently running with 16.33% melee haste and the sim often comes up with EP values for haste well above 2, meanwhile my hit is only 1% over the spell hit and the EP value is around 1.5. Haste is a very touchy stat though. At one point in time, running the EP calculator with an ep_haste value of 30 gave me a negative value for haste, but both 29 and 31 gave me values around 1.4, and the further I deviated from 30, the higher the value climbed. Unfortunately, with the 3 second cd windfury debunked, we have even less of an idea how haste effects it.

With hit, the lower my hit is (without going below the spell hit cap of course), the lower the EP value I get for it.
#2134SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3clliche
Originally Posted by Deathicle View Post
I did not say there was a haste cap. I simply said that with a 2.6 speed weapon, having more than 12% haste will push your attacks below 1.5 seconds between swings - resulting in higher overall damage but a dramatically lower EP value for additional haste. Additionally, I told him what to do if it bothers him.

However, I disagree with your statement that you should always use the same EP value for haste as we do with agi/crit/hit. Once you are below 1.5 and above 1.4 second speeds, your EP value for haste is much lower, meaning that all things being equal, your points are better spent upgrading your other statistics as they will provide the biggest 'bang' for the buck and a higher overall DPS. That is, after all, exactly what the simulator is telling you. Unlike hit, which maintains a fairly high rating beyond even the spell hit cap, haste is not always the best choice. It simply has multiple 'soft caps'.

Flurry is 25% not 30%. So you can actually get 17.3% haste before you're under 1.5
#2135SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
For the 100th time in this thread: the 1.5 speed dip is an artifact of the simulator. It has next to zero impact on your gameplay.
#2136SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
For the 100th time in this thread: the 1.5 speed dip is an artifact of the simulator. It has next to zero impact on your gameplay.

Actually it shouldn't even be part of the sim anymore since Tukez recoded the sim to have a variable cooldown on Windfury to correspond to what is actually seen in game. Why there is such variability with haste EP values now really has me a bit confused. However running the sim with only 1000 hours is just asking for inaccuracy anyway.
#2137SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
1) Is my config incorrect?
2) Why am I getting more dps out of haste than crit when the EP value of haste is lower than crit?
3) Have other shaman at my gear level done extensive haste EP value testing? What values are your arriving at? A brief look at the top 20 shaman for XT (wowmeteronline) indicates a focus on crit over haste- what are the rest of you seeing?
Looks like it could potentially be a sampling issue. 0.34% crit is the reduction you should lose on spells with 16 less crit rating. Dropping 22 agility should lower your physical crit by a further 0.26%. However your crit loss seems much less than expected:

MH attack: 48.04% -> 47.73% = 0.31% delta
Lightning bolt: 40.00% -> 39.88% = 0.12% delta

I tend to use 5000 hour simulations, you might try that and see if your results are more consistent.
#2138SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Talaus-Mok'Nathal
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Actually it shouldn't even be part of the sim anymore since Tukez recoded the sim to have a variable cooldown on Windfury to correspond to what is actually seen in game. Why there is such variability with haste EP values now really has me a bit confused. However running the sim with only 1000 hours is just asking for inaccuracy anyway.
Yeah, the whole haste thing has me baffled as well. I ran it for 100000 hours one night and still came up with a negative haste for a 30 haste change, and positives for 31. I'm also getting it while being under the 1.5 speed fully hasted weapons and well over 1.0 speed.
#2139SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
Originally Posted by clliche View Post
Flurry is 25% not 30%. So you can actually get 17.3% haste before you're under 1.5
Taken from WoW Wiki

Haste - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
Haste stacks multiplicatively. This means that it is beneficial to stack multiple haste effects.
Is that not correct? Windfury is 20%, Flurry is 25%, Swift Retribution is 3%. He has 13.76% haste unbuffed. So 1.1376 * 1.2 * 1.25 * 1.03 = 1.7576. 2.6 / 1.7576 = 1.479 attack speed with a 2.6 speed weapon. 12% haste would net you a 1.503 attack speed. If something is wrong with my math, please let me know!
#2140SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by clliche View Post
Was anything other than the armor pen calculations changed for this new version?
Yes the Flametongue coefficients were fixed as well. Look back the thread a couple of pages to get the list of changes.
#2141SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Actually it shouldn't even be part of the sim anymore since Tukez recoded the sim to have a variable cooldown on Windfury to correspond to what is actually seen in game. Why there is such variability with haste EP values now really has me a bit confused. However running the sim with only 1000 hours is just asking for inaccuracy anyway.
The normalization only guarantees that you will get a positive haste value, not that the haste value will be consistent or progress linearly. As long as you aren't seeing negative values, everything is ok.
#2142SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Deathicle View Post
Is that not correct? Windfury is 20%, Flurry is 25%, Swift Retribution is 3%. He has 13.76% haste unbuffed. So 1.1376 * 1.2 * 1.25 * 1.03 = 1.7576. 2.6 / 1.7576 = 1.479 attack speed with a 2.6 speed weapon. 12% haste would net you a 1.503 attack speed. If something is wrong with my math, please let me know!

It doesn't matter. Windfury's cooldown is not 3 seconds. It is 3 seconds +/- 0.2 seconds with a bellcurve type distribution between those points. So worrying about hasting to specifically 1.5 speed is completely pointless.
#2143SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3clliche
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
It doesn't matter. Windfury's cooldown is not 3 seconds. It is 3 seconds +/- 0.2 seconds with a bellcurve type distribution between those points. So worrying about hasting to specifically 1.5 speed is completely pointless.
But aren't there still points where certain speeds net the most windfury procs? That seems to be the case from [Enh] Windfury Weapon Cooldown . This thread never conclusively determines a confidence interval or what is determined client side and server side. If you want to test what the actual windfury cooldown is, I would say that testing on a private server would be necessary to eliminate almost all lag. I believe that the .bat that is displayed when running one on your own comp displays damage done with probably almost perfect time stamps (though i could be wrong about this one.) It seems beneficial to stay near these cds but not on those cooldowns for the best results. Whether or not this is actually a dps increase/decrease would be another problem i suppose.
#2144SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by clliche View Post
But aren't there still points where certain speeds net the most windfury procs? That seems to be the case from [Enh] Windfury Weapon Cooldown . This thread never conclusively determines a confidence interval or what is determined client side and server side. If you want to test what the actual windfury cooldown is, I would say that testing on a private server would be necessary to eliminate almost all lag. I believe that the .bat that is displayed when running one on your own comp displays damage done with probably almost perfect time stamps (though i could be wrong about this one.) It seems beneficial to stay near these cds but not on those cooldowns for the best results. Whether or not this is actually a dps increase/decrease would be another problem i suppose.
I believe the conclusion was that the server will hold procs that fall near the end of the CD window and fire them when the CD expires. While its true lag can not be discounted, no other proc/buff behaved this way with this sort of delay or separation from the actual hit. The only reasonable conclusion is that the server holds procs. If this is the case, then you will never get a negative EP for haste. You may not see a large proc increase per point at certain levels of haste, but you should not see a reduction.
#2145SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sekhem
EnhSim GUI for Mac

I already posted this on the EnhSim wiki page, but just to make sure everyone who might benefit from it sees it...

I've just released version 1.0 of the newly-built iEnhSim, with or without source, at ienhsim - Google Code

iEnhSim is a Cocoa-based Mac GUI for EnhSim, something that I felt was sorely missing out there.

Hammer away, find bugs, please — The Google Code page has a nice bug tracker in there, so anything you find just submit a bug for it and I'll work on fixing them in the next release.

I've also added a category in the bug tracker for feature requests, so feel free to use it for that purpose as well.

Please note that this will run on 10.5 and later only, and is Intel-platform only (as I do not have a PPC machine to test against — anyone want to lend me one? =P)
#2146SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3paladyin
1.6.9 - Game experience inconsistent with simulation
----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure this is the right thread, but here goes:

I am getting simulation results which are inconsistent with the in-game testing. Details:

I am using EnhSim 1.6.9 (1.7.0 crashes due to uninitialized pointers). I am simulating two sets of gear, which I'll call Old set and New set:
Old set - 4/5 valorous earthshatter (missing head item)
New set - replaces earthshatter shoulder with valorous worldbreaker, earthshatter glove with valorous worldbreaker and earthshatter legs with [Leggings of the Tireless Sentry] . The exact details of the 2 sets are at the end of this message. In terms of set bonuses I am trading the 2piece and 4piece earthshatter bonuses in Old set for the 2piece worldbreaker bonus in the New set.

Anyway, I simmed the 2 sets and here are the results:
Old set - 4778 dps
New set - 4904 dps
(I tested with the 2 Rawr configs below). Obviously, New set is significantly better, right?

Except in game it's not. I went to 25man Emalon with my new gear. I am used to getting within the first 3-4 dps, and now I was somewhere in the middle of Recount. Then I went to the training dummy and did 3 x 5-minute fights with Old set on, and 3 x 5-minute fights with New set on. I did not use hero, the wolves nor any fire totem. Results:
Old set - 3173 average dps
New set - 3103 average dps

Old set is better!!!

I am further puzzled because my gems are calibrated around New set, which should make Old set even worse (e.g. I'm not expertise capped in it).

Please help me understand this. Thanks a bundle!

Attachments
------------------
OLD SET (put this in old.xml and open in Rawr):
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Character xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <Name>pashaman</Name>
  <Realm>shadowsong</Realm>
  <Region>EU</Region>
  <Race>Draenei</Race>
  <Class>Shaman</Class>
  <ActiveBuffs>Strength of Earth Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Enhancing Totems (Agility/Strength)</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Arcane Intellect</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Power Word: Fortitude</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Kings</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Heroic Presence</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Sunder Armor</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Misery</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Flask of Endless Rage</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Fish Feast</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Bloodlust</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Earthshatter Battlegear 2 Piece Bonus</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Earthshatter Battlegear 4 Piece Bonus</ActiveBuffs>
  <CalculationOptions>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Enhance</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsEnhance xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;NumberOfFerociousInspirations&gt;2&lt;/NumberOfFerociousInspirations&gt;
  &lt;ShattrathFaction&gt;Aldor&lt;/ShattrathFaction&gt;
  &lt;MainhandImbue&gt;Windfury&lt;/MainhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;OffhandImbue&gt;Flametongue&lt;/OffhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;FightLength&gt;6&lt;/FightLength&gt;
  &lt;TargetFireResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetFireResistance&gt;
  &lt;TargetNatureResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetNatureResistance&gt;
  &lt;BaseStatOption&gt;true&lt;/BaseStatOption&gt;
  &lt;Magma&gt;true&lt;/Magma&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsEnhance&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Bear</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsBear xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;ThreatScale&gt;10&lt;/ThreatScale&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;SurvivalSoftCap&gt;140000&lt;/SurvivalSoftCap&gt;
  &lt;TargetDamage&gt;50000&lt;/TargetDamage&gt;
  &lt;TargetAttackSpeed&gt;2&lt;/TargetAttackSpeed&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMaul xsi:nil="true" /&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMangle&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseMangle&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseSwipe&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseSwipe&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseLacerate&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseLacerate&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsBear&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Elemental</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsElemental xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;BSRatio&gt;75&lt;/BSRatio&gt;
  &lt;FightDuration&gt;300&lt;/FightDuration&gt;
  &lt;ManaPot&gt;0&lt;/ManaPot&gt;
  &lt;ReplenishmentUptime&gt;30&lt;/ReplenishmentUptime&gt;
  &lt;UseThunderstorm&gt;true&lt;/UseThunderstorm&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfFlameShock&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfFlameShock&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfElementalMastery&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfElementalMastery&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfFlametongue&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfFlametongue&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfLava&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfLava&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfLightningBolt&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfLightningBolt&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfShocking&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfShocking&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfWaterMastery&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfWaterMastery&gt;
  &lt;rotationType&gt;0&lt;/rotationType&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsElemental&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
  </CalculationOptions>
  <AvailableItems>40521</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-13817</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>44664</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40524</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-33808</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40523</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-53832</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>39762</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40522</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-113823</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>39701</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-123826</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40186</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-83845</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40262</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-91603</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40074</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-133839</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40717</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40256</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>44253</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40721</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-41099</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40383</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-153789</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45284</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40322</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45677</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40520</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40684</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45704</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45075</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-123232</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45169</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45162</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45301</AvailableItems>
  <CurrentModel>Enhance</CurrentModel>
  <EnforceMetagemRequirements>false</EnforceMetagemRequirements>
  <Head>45164.41285.40052.0.3817</Head>
  <Neck>44664.40034.0.0.0</Neck>
  <Shoulders>40524.40034.0.0.3808</Shoulders>
  <Back>45704.0.0.0.1099</Back>
  <Chest>40523.40003.40034.0.3832</Chest>
  <Shirt>45666.0.0.0.0</Shirt>
  <Tabard>5976.0.0.0.0</Tabard>
  <Wrist>45301.40014.0.0.3845</Wrist>
  <Hands>40520.40053.40014.0.1603</Hands>
  <Waist>39762.40052.0.0.0</Waist>
  <Legs>40522.40053.40013.0.3823</Legs>
  <Feet>45162.0.0.0.3232</Feet>
  <Finger1>40074.0.0.0.3839</Finger1>
  <Finger2>40717.0.0.0.3839</Finger2>
  <Trinket1>40256.0.0.0.0</Trinket1>
  <Trinket2>40684.0.0.0.0</Trinket2>
  <MainHand>40383.0.0.0.3789</MainHand>
  <OffHand>45075.0.0.0.3789</OffHand>
  <Ranged>40322.0.0.0.0</Ranged>
  <CalculationToOptimize>[Overall]</CalculationToOptimize>
  <OptimizationRequirements />
  <WarriorTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</WarriorTalents>
  <PaladinTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000000000000000000000</PaladinTalents>
  <HunterTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</HunterTalents>
  <RogueTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</RogueTalents>
  <PriestTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</PriestTalents>
  <ShamanTalents>05303005000000000000000003020503310502133303113123105100000000000000000000000000.0000000000000100010000100000</ShamanTalents>
  <MageTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000</MageTalents>
  <WarlockTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</WarlockTalents>
  <DruidTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000</DruidTalents>
  <DeathKnightTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</DeathKnightTalents>
  <CustomItemInstances>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>39762</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40014</Gem1Id>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>39762</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40013</Gem1Id>
      <Gem2Id>40014</Gem2Id>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>45301</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40013</Gem1Id>
      <EnchantId>3845</EnchantId>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>45415</Id>
      <Gem1Id>45879</Gem1Id>
      <EnchantId>3808</EnchantId>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
  </CustomItemInstances>
  <WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
</Character>
NEW SET (put this in new.xml and open in Rawr):
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Character xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <Name>pashaman</Name>
  <Realm>shadowsong</Realm>
  <Region>EU</Region>
  <Race>Draenei</Race>
  <Class>Shaman</Class>
  <ActiveBuffs>Strength of Earth Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Enhancing Totems (Agility/Strength)</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Arcane Intellect</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Power Word: Fortitude</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Kings</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Heroic Presence</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Sunder Armor</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Misery</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Flask of Endless Rage</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Fish Feast</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Bloodlust</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Worldbreaker Battlegear 2 Piece Bonus</ActiveBuffs>
  <CalculationOptions>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Enhance</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsEnhance xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;NumberOfFerociousInspirations&gt;2&lt;/NumberOfFerociousInspirations&gt;
  &lt;ShattrathFaction&gt;Aldor&lt;/ShattrathFaction&gt;
  &lt;MainhandImbue&gt;Windfury&lt;/MainhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;OffhandImbue&gt;Flametongue&lt;/OffhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;FightLength&gt;6&lt;/FightLength&gt;
  &lt;TargetFireResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetFireResistance&gt;
  &lt;TargetNatureResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetNatureResistance&gt;
  &lt;BaseStatOption&gt;true&lt;/BaseStatOption&gt;
  &lt;Magma&gt;true&lt;/Magma&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsEnhance&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Bear</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsBear xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;ThreatScale&gt;10&lt;/ThreatScale&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;SurvivalSoftCap&gt;140000&lt;/SurvivalSoftCap&gt;
  &lt;TargetDamage&gt;50000&lt;/TargetDamage&gt;
  &lt;TargetAttackSpeed&gt;2&lt;/TargetAttackSpeed&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMaul xsi:nil="true" /&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMangle&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseMangle&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseSwipe&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseSwipe&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseLacerate&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseLacerate&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsBear&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Elemental</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsElemental xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;BSRatio&gt;75&lt;/BSRatio&gt;
  &lt;FightDuration&gt;300&lt;/FightDuration&gt;
  &lt;ManaPot&gt;0&lt;/ManaPot&gt;
  &lt;ReplenishmentUptime&gt;30&lt;/ReplenishmentUptime&gt;
  &lt;UseThunderstorm&gt;true&lt;/UseThunderstorm&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfFlameShock&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfFlameShock&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfElementalMastery&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfElementalMastery&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfFlametongue&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfFlametongue&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfLava&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfLava&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfLightningBolt&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfLightningBolt&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfShocking&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfShocking&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfWaterMastery&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfWaterMastery&gt;
  &lt;rotationType&gt;0&lt;/rotationType&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsElemental&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
  </CalculationOptions>
  <AvailableItems>40521</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-13817</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>44664</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40524</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-33808</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40523</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-53832</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>39762</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40522</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-113823</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>39701</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-123826</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40186</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-83845</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40262</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-91603</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40074</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-133839</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40717</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40256</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>44253</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40721</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-41099</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40383</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-153789</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45284</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40322</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45677</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40520</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40684</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45704</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45075</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-123232</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45169</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45162</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45301</AvailableItems>
  <CurrentModel>Enhance</CurrentModel>
  <EnforceMetagemRequirements>false</EnforceMetagemRequirements>
  <Head>45164.41285.40052.0.3817</Head>
  <Neck>44664.40034.0.0.0</Neck>
  <Shoulders>46203.45879.0.0.3808</Shoulders>
  <Back>45704.0.0.0.1099</Back>
  <Chest>40523.40003.40034.0.3832</Chest>
  <Shirt>45666.0.0.0.0</Shirt>
  <Tabard>5976.0.0.0.0</Tabard>
  <Wrist>45301.40014.0.0.3845</Wrist>
  <Hands>46200.40013.39999.0.1603</Hands>
  <Waist>39762.40052.0.0.0</Waist>
  <Legs>45844.39999.40013.0.3823</Legs>
  <Feet>45162.0.0.0.3232</Feet>
  <Finger1>40074.0.0.0.3839</Finger1>
  <Finger2>40717.0.0.0.3839</Finger2>
  <Trinket1>40256.0.0.0.0</Trinket1>
  <Trinket2>40684.0.0.0.0</Trinket2>
  <MainHand>40383.0.0.0.3789</MainHand>
  <OffHand>45075.0.0.0.3789</OffHand>
  <Ranged>40322.0.0.0.0</Ranged>
  <CalculationToOptimize>[Overall]</CalculationToOptimize>
  <OptimizationRequirements />
  <WarriorTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</WarriorTalents>
  <PaladinTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000000000000000000000</PaladinTalents>
  <HunterTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</HunterTalents>
  <RogueTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</RogueTalents>
  <PriestTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</PriestTalents>
  <ShamanTalents>05303005000000000000000003020503310502133303113123105100000000000000000000000000.0000000000000100010000100000</ShamanTalents>
  <MageTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000</MageTalents>
  <WarlockTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</WarlockTalents>
  <DruidTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000</DruidTalents>
  <DeathKnightTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</DeathKnightTalents>
  <CustomItemInstances>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>39762</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40014</Gem1Id>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>39762</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40013</Gem1Id>
      <Gem2Id>40014</Gem2Id>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>45301</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40013</Gem1Id>
      <EnchantId>3845</EnchantId>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>45415</Id>
      <Gem1Id>45879</Gem1Id>
      <EnchantId>3808</EnchantId>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
  </CustomItemInstances>
  <WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
</Character>
I logged 2 fights, one with each set, and made a spreadhseet with the results:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...gamIEmCYfwwyrw

Here are the logs:
Old set: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
New set: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
(ignore the other players, they were randoms using the test dummies around me)
#2147SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
3x 5minute combat durations in-game is so laughably random that you may as well have just made up numbers for comparison. Remember in the sim that you're running thousands (at least, you'd better be) of hours of combat to remove all the differences in crit rates and MW procs.

If you want the sim to reflect in-game a little more, turn up the min and max lag. Too often I see people posting here with 0 or 100ms on the lag configurations. That isn't realistic at all. Even if your actual network lag is 100ms or less, there is still a human reaction time to seeing an ability ready for use and then actually hitting the button. Most people probably ought to run their lag in the sim at anywhere from 200-500ms.
#2148SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by paladyin View Post
1.6.9 - Game experience inconsistent with simulation
----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure this is the right thread, but here goes:

I am getting simulation results which are inconsistent with the in-game testing. Details:
It's not clear that your results are inconsistent with the sim. Our dps can vary wildly from fight to fight. It appears that you only did 4 runs that were 5 minutes long each.

Just as an experiment I ran enhsim with my stats with combat length set to 5 min and simulation time set to 20 minutes turning off all raid buffs except self buffs. Each time I ran the experiment I got different dps results, ranging from 4250 dps to 4465 dps. That's without changing anything between runs.

Try Verges's version of the sim, and if you're still convinced that the sim is wrong, you need to isolate what mechanic is wrong yourself, or provide hours and hours of testing that still show the inconsistency.


As an aside, it would be very helpful if the sim reported statistical measures in addition to average dps, so that people know what range of dps they should expect from their setup, and know the confidence of the average dps.
#2149SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Deathicle
My friend asked me this question, and being the curious guy I am, I decided to do some research on it: Boss spell penetration. Now according to a wide variety of websites out there, NPCs have a 2% base resistance to spells per level above you that can not be overcome ( See: Spell penetration - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft ). Additionally, the simulator leaves spell resistance figures set at 0. Isn't this a rather important oversight? I saw spell resistance numbers all the time in a raiding situation in TBC.

If this is the case, what numbers should we be using for spell resistance? Would the standard 8*Lvl work?

Last edited by Deathicle : 06/15/09 at 4:34 PM.
#2150SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
I realize this has been more than likely discussed in passing before but I'm curious as to one's thoughts on the matter.

Why do some enhance shamans use the agility meta gem over the straight crit meta gem? Crit should have a higher EP value than agility always, should it not? It benefits spells as well as melee, meaning it helps to benefit Elemental Devastation which in turn boosts your melee crit. So why would one choose the agility meta over the crit meta?
#2151SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3haelos
Originally Posted by kaoticz View Post
I realize this has been more than likely discussed in passing before but I'm curious as to one's thoughts on the matter.

Why do some enhance shamans use the agility meta gem over the straight crit meta gem? Crit should have a higher EP value than agility always, should it not? It benefits spells as well as melee, meaning it helps to benefit Elemental Devastation which in turn boosts your melee crit. So why would one choose the agility meta over the crit meta?
21 agility also gives you 21 attack power.
#2152SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mengus
Not having to use 2 Blue gems is also a factor. Many people prefer the 1 of each color activation of the 21 agi meta over the 2 blue of the 21 crit.
#2153SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
More practically, the Chaotic Skyflare requires 2 blue gems to activate which pretty much knocks it out of consideration.
#2154SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
More practically, the Chaotic Skyflare requires 2 blue gems to activate which pretty much knocks it out of consideration.
Unless of course you are JC. Also with our current HP issues I could see people being "ok" with socketing some AP/Stam gems to meet the requirement.
#2155SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3darkInertia
Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
Unless of course you are JC. Also with our current HP issues I could see people being "ok" with socketing some AP/Stam gems to meet the requirement.
Aren't they nerfing JC and removing the chromatic (i.e. meets every socket bonus) quality of the JC gems?
#2156SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bengali
It requires an extra blue gem. I personally use it because my own obsessive-compulsive disorder requires me to acquire all socket bonuses.

edit: yikes I was slow.
#2157SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
More practically, the Chaotic Skyflare requires 2 blue gems to activate which pretty much knocks it out of consideration.
It is not that easy. If you got the Belt of Dragons and the T8-Warkilt (both with a blue socket and 12 AP bonus. Assuming you are not a JC and you capped hit and expertise) an enchanted tear is the best option for the first blue socket. You have two options for the second blue socket: Ignore the second blue socket and use the 21 agi meta or get the second socket bonus (i.e. with a 16 ap/12 stam gem) and use the 21 crit meta gem. For me both options are almost equal (except the additional 12 stam with the second option).

So it depends on your gear.. like everything else
#2158SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ciege
I was using Rawr to compile an up to date BiS list, mostly done btw, when i came to totem of dancing flame which in Rawr shows to be better than Hex, Dueling, and well honestly other totems outside of PvE. But when ran with enhsim, its lower DPS than Totem of Hex. When i started digging around in Enhsim, i couldnt find where it was calling or getting the modifications the totems do from the totems files.

So i moved back a step and decided to check Rawr for its modification from the totem. When i found it, i was kind of curious if the modifier was being applied right. In Rawr it is written out as:

TotemSSDamage | 155

Now im curious if its being applied correctly because of how its stated in Rawr, and if its done in Enhsim the same way. Is it taking the Stormstrike then adding 155 damage? Just adding 155 damage to the MH because the hit chance is based of your MH hit chance. Is it being applied before, or after 2 peice set bonus from tier 8? How is it applied in game (before 2 piece 20% bonus, or after)? All this for me comes from the exact text of the totem:

Equip: Increases weapon damage when you use Stormstrike by 155.

The wording here is key, "Increases WEAPON damage." By increasing weapon damage weapon damage, does it apply to the minimum and maximum, or one or the other? If it applies to both, its increasing minimum and maximum damage by 155.

Examples:
Golden Saronite Dragon
406 - 610 Damage ~> 561 - 765 Damage

Caress of Insanity
338 - 628 Damage ~> 493 - 783 Damage

This is all me just trying to figure out which totem i should be using prior to 4 peice (i have no doubt totem of hex is better with 4 peice).

Gonna post this on the Rawr thread as well, thanks alot.

~Ciege

PS:
Originally Posted by bengali View Post
It requires an extra blue gem. I personally use it because my own obsessive-compulsive disorder requires me to acquire all socket bonuses.

edit: yikes I was slow.
OCD or not, you only pick up 1 blue socket bonus. When you looking at socket bonuses you have to consider weather or not the socket bonus combined with with the gem(s) is better than just ignoring the socket bonus, and putting a better gem in. Also always grab the socket bonus that has a higher EP value.
#2159SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
epamafia
While doing some attemping some hardmodes yesterday, a doubt came to me, imagine this situation:

- You have 60 sec to nuke a boss.
- you can time wolfs and BL.
- potion of haste is off cd.
- fire elemental is off cd.
- trinket are passive.
- boss is static aka patchwerk mode.

How is the best way to achieve more dmg. haste pot,dps, then on 43 sec left pop wolfs, fire elemental (dont know if fire elem is buffed by BL) and BL? or save everything to the last 43 sec, pop wolfs, fire elemental and stack haste pot and bl?
I think I read somewhere that with haste pot and bl and some decent amount of haste from gear you could reach a sort off soft haste cap where you wouldn't benefit fully from it.



Is there a way to sim this?

Last edited by epamafia : 06/17/09 at 7:38 AM.
#2160SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3CommandoXXX
Fire Elemental is not affected by Bloodlust, so you should pop it immediately. In fact, assuming that combat will end after those 60 seconds, you should probably have popped it 60 seconds earlier in order to get the most use out of the 2 min duration, but you could save it if there's a risk that it'll go chasing off after an add.

There's no reason to save Bloodlust for the last 43 seconds unless the fight gets progressively harder as it goes on. If fight conditions remain constant you should use it early, so that the maximum number of people get the maximum benefit (i.e you don't pop it after people have died or run out of mana).

Wolves should be popped directly before Bloodlust, as they benefit from it. I don't believe they benefit from Potion of Speed, so you can pop that right after Bloodlust.

If the fight gets progressively harder during those 60 seconds then you should probably pop Bloodlust when there's 45 second to go, and Wolves directly afterwards, saving Potion of Speed for the final 20 seconds.
#2161SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I think between us we have nailed the Armour Penetration calcs that were out of whack in v1.7.0 (and the two subsequent patches) The new v1.7.0.3 is producing much better results for Armour Pen that match the formulae determined in the Combat Ratings at 80 thread on EJ.

I understand that Verges should be releasing this new v1.7.0.3 soon and I'd encourage everyone to use it. Whilst on the subject does anyone know of a way to contact Tukez, he hasn't been seen for a month or two so might be busy or just no longer interested in the game. It would be good to know if development on the new branch of EnhSim should continue or not - at least until the Java Group get some actual code written.
#2162SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Wanderah
When running EnhSim v 1.7.0 I am able to Sim my dps correctly, however, when I try to calculate my EP values, it gets to 9/14 and then crashes. Vista gives me an error and tells me the program has shut down. If you let me know what you need to research it, or if i'm making a simple mistake i'll gladly edit this post with the information (i.e. an error log or something, Vista only gives me the generic "program has shut down error" with some numbers at the bottom but i'm not sure if it'd be helpful). This happens no matter what the time period i Sim for is, or what my stats are. It's worked once in the past, and i didn't change anything that I can remember.

this is the last output file:

EnhSim version 1.7.0

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 2.35364% (61.7407 hit rating).
Mh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 3.22446 expertise (26.4325 expertise rating).
Oh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 3.22446 expertise (26.4325 expertise rating).

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.


and this is the config file i used:
### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time 10000
simulation_time_combatlog 30
combat_length 5
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 300
max_lag 400
simulate_mana 1

ep_precision 2
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 200
ep_crit_rating 30
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 4
ep_haste_rating 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 30
ep_spellpower 150
ep_dps 7.5
ep_mana 250
ep_spirit 150
ep_mp5 20

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 1
bloodlust_casters 1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left 750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left 3000

rotation_priority_count 8
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 SW
rotation_priority3 SS
rotation_priority4 ES
rotation_priority5 MT
rotation_priority6 LS
rotation_priority7 LL
rotation_priority8 SR

miss 8.0
dodge 6.5
glancing 24.0
armor 10645
spell_miss 17.0
nature_resistance 0
fire_resistance 0
frost_resistance 0
arcane_resistance 0
shadow_resistance 0

armor_debuff_major 20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor 5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff 4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff 20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat 688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier 0/99.7
spell_haste_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff 5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff 10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
haste_buff 3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase 3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff 52/52
agi_and_strength_buff 178/178
intellect_buff 60/60

replenishment 1
water_shield 0
mana_spring_totem 1
blessing_of_wisdom 1
judgement_of_wisdom 1

flask_elixir -
guardian_elixir -
potion -
food -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon ###
###############################################################################

race tauren
mh_speed 2.60
oh_speed 2.50
mh_dps 143.5
oh_dps 156.6
mh_crit 27.48
oh_crit 27.48
mh_hit 12.17
oh_hit 12.17
mh_expertise_rating 133.00
oh_expertise_rating 133.00
ap 3433
melee_haste 7.65
armor_penetration 5.68
str 133
agi 760
int 419
spi 153
spellpower 1029
spell_crit 20.15
spell_hit 15.21
spell_haste 5.89
max_mana 10401
mp5 0

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue flametongue

mh_enchant 2673
oh_enchant 2673

mh_weapon -
oh_weapon -

trinket1 40684
trinket2 40256

totem 40267

set_bonus1 -
set_bonus2 -
set_bonus3 -

metagem 41398

gloves_enchant -
cloak_enchant -

glyph_major1 stormstrike
glyph_major2 windfury_weapon
glyph_major3 -

glyph_minor1 -
glyph_minor2 -
glyph_minor3 -

ancestral_knowledge 2/5
improved_shields 1/3
mental_dexterity 3/3
shamanistic_focus 1/1
flurry 5/5
elemental_weapons 3/3
unleashed_rage 3/3
weapon_mastery 3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness 3/3
improved_stormstrike 2/2
static_shock 3/3
maelstrom_weapon 5/5

convection 0/5
concussion 5/5
call_of_flame 3/3
elemental_devastation 3/3
reverberation 2/5
elemental_focus 0/1
elemental_fury 5/5
call_of_thunder 0/1
unrelenting_storm 0/3
elemental_precision 0/3
lightning_mastery 0/5
elemental_oath 0/2
lightning_overload 0/5
lava_flows 0/3
storm_earth_and_fire 0/3
shamanism 0/5


and this is the Vista Error Info (under View Problem Details at the bottom):

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: enhsim.exe
Application Version: 1.7.0.0
Application Timestamp: 49f1641d
Fault Module Name: enhsim.exe
Fault Module Version: 1.7.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 49f1641d
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00062997
OS Version: 6.0.6001.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: fd00
Additional Information 2: ea6f5fe8924aaa756324d57f87834160
Additional Information 3: fd00
Additional Information 4: ea6f5fe8924aaa756324d57f87834160
#2163SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3epamafia
Originally Posted by CommandoXXX View Post
Fire Elemental is not affected by Bloodlust, so you should pop it immediately. In fact, assuming that combat will end after those 60 seconds, you should probably have popped it 60 seconds earlier in order to get the most use out of the 2 min duration, but you could save it if there's a risk that it'll go chasing off after an add.

There's no reason to save Bloodlust for the last 43 seconds unless the fight gets progressively harder as it goes on. If fight conditions remain constant you should use it early, so that the maximum number of people get the maximum benefit (i.e you don't pop it after people have died or run out of mana).

Wolves should be popped directly before Bloodlust, as they benefit from it. I don't believe they benefit from Potion of Speed, so you can pop that right after Bloodlust.

If the fight gets progressively harder during those 60 seconds then you should probably pop Bloodlust when there's 45 second to go, and Wolves directly afterwards, saving Potion of Speed for the final 20 seconds.
Forgot those conditions, no one dies or go oom and fight gets harder toward the end. Cant cast elemental before this. My main question is: what results in greater dmg? stacking haste pot and BL or using them separatly?
#2164SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
at least until the Java Group get some actual code written.
Hey I've got questions posted on the dev board and none of you Euro guys have responded lately =P
#2165SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by epamafia View Post
Forgot those conditions, no one dies or go oom and fight gets harder toward the end. Cant cast elemental before this. My main question is: what results in greater dmg? stacking haste pot and BL or using them separatly?
Why set up an elaborate scenario if you just want a simple answer?

Regardless, haste stacks multiplicatively. This means that it is very beneficial to stack sources of haste together (ie. pots during Hero/Lust).
#2166SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Horac
Originally Posted by epamafia View Post
Forgot those conditions, no one dies or go oom and fight gets harder toward the end. Cant cast elemental before this. My main question is: what results in greater dmg? stacking haste pot and BL or using them separatly?
I think that's a hard one to answer because of how haste benefits each of our skills differently. Melee swings and Flametongue weapon imbue both benefit pretty well from haste. Maelstrom benefits well from haste but with higher Maelstrom procs you get more clashes on your ability cooldowns, assuming those clashes don't become overwhelming haste is good for maelstrom. Windfury weapon levels off as haste gets higher. Increasing haste may get you one or two more procs but there is no guarantee of that because of how the cooldown works.

You can probably contrive a test here by entering the amount of haste equal to Bloodlust in your config and disabling bloodlust casts (is that possible?). That would allow you to sim out haste dps with bloodlust. Then sim out the DPS of bloodlust + haste pot (again by entering the haste amounts manually and disabling the use of bloodlust). Then Sim out the haste potion without any bloodlust. Finally sim out your damage with no haste pot and no haste buff.

Your concern is what is the difference in dps between stacking BL/hast pot and not stacking. Not stacking the two together results in 55 seconds of hasted attack time, so you need to compare that to 55 seconds of attack time with them stacked (ie Normal DPS + stacked BL/Haste pot dps + BL dps time after Haste pot expires). With these numbers you do the following calculations

BL + Hast pot dps score calc. > Non hasted DPS * 15 seconds + BL/Haste Pot DPS * 15 seconds + BL Dps * 25 Seconds

BL with seperate hast pot calc. > Haste potion only DPS * 15 Seconds + BL DPS * 40 Seconds

After doing these two calculations you will know which one results in a higher output of damage overall.
#2167SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3epamafia
Because if I tell you exactly I want need to know theres good chance you'll tell what I need to know or at least get close to it and not deviate from the question. Damn my english is rusty...
#2168SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tortugapir8
New version 1.7.0.3 compiled and available at:


http://www.apatheia.org/download/enhsim.exe
MD5 Hash: F65AEF34965BAC370D22C4894958C761


This version nails down the armor penetration bugs and damage reduction formulas.
#2169SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Horac
Originally Posted by epamafia View Post
. Btw horac you can sim without BL, just reduce BL casters to 0.
I knew you could reduce the option to 0 in the configuration but was not certain that the program interpreted 0 as a valid value for that option.

My speculation on the subject of which is better is that they will probably be very close to each other in overall damage output and will come down to how well you deal with the stacked haste situation (cooldown clash hell) vs not stacking the haste.

Last edited by Horac : 06/17/09 at 11:35 AM. Reason: added comment about what I think the results of the test will show.
#2170SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sekhem
Originally Posted by tortugapir8 View Post
New version 1.7.0.3 compiled and available at:


http://www.apatheia.org/download/enhsim.exe
MD5 Hash: F65AEF34965BAC370D22C4894958C761


This version nails down the armor penetration bugs and damage reduction formulas.
Is there a chance of getting the source for this new version, so I can compile for the Mac platform and include in iEnhSim? It seems this branch is where actual development is getting done, so I believe it's best for me to have my project using this engine as well.
#2171SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Deathicle View Post
My friend asked me this question, and being the curious guy I am, I decided to do some research on it: Boss spell penetration. Now according to a wide variety of websites out there, NPCs have a 2% base resistance to spells per level above you that can not be overcome ( See: Spell penetration - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft ). Additionally, the simulator leaves spell resistance figures set at 0. Isn't this a rather important oversight? I saw spell resistance numbers all the time in a raiding situation in TBC.

If this is the case, what numbers should we be using for spell resistance? Would the standard 8*Lvl work?
Looking at the source code
  int effective_nature_resistance = (nature_resistance_ + std::max<int>((TARGET_LEVEL - ATTACKER_LEVEL) * 5, 0) - std::min<int>(0/*spell penetration*/, 0));
It would appear that the sim already takes the built in resistance into account. Use the default values of 0 unless the boss has extra resistance.
#2172SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
CroMe
Do I have to change something in the config file too? I am a bit confused since Levva said there'd be better results for ArP. I just get an EP-Value of 1.42 after 20k hours calculations and well, this is exactly the same as before, with v1.7.0.0/.1/.2
so I didnt even notice anything, except a dps-loss of about 75.

Config-file:
### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 20000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SW
rotation_priority4              MT
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_mighty_thoughts
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         33.97
oh_crit                         33.97
mh_hit                          11.10
oh_hit                          11.10
mh_expertise_rating             141.00
oh_expertise_rating             141.00
ap                              4150
melee_haste                     14.43
armor_penetration               3.00
str                             131
agi                             893
int                             551
spi                             155
spellpower                      1245
spell_crit                      25.84
spell_hit                       13.88
spell_haste                     11.10
max_mana                        12381
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        45263
trinket2                        40256

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41398

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   5/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
-----------------------------------------------------
Results:
EnhSim version 1.7.0.3 by Verges: scionweb@gmail.com

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 2.02364% (53.0842 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6899.46
ap                        1.00      0.66      7030.53        131.07
crit rating               1.84      1.21      6935.63        36.17
hit rating                1.62      1.06      6931.29        31.83
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6899.46
haste rating              2.04      1.34      6939.55        40.09
armor penetration rating  1.43      0.93      6927.50        28.04
spellpower                1.03      0.68      7000.95        101.49
mh dps                    5.42      3.55      6926.10        26.64
oh dps                    2.73      1.79      6912.89        13.43
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.72      
intelligence*             1.43      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6899.46
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6899.46
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6899.46

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.84, HitRating=1.62, HasteRating=2.04, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.43, SpellDamage=1.03, MainHandDps=5.42, OffHandDps=2.73, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.72, Intellect=1.43, Spirit=0.00, Mana=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=2.04&dps=5.42&mp5=0.00&mcr=1.84&odps=2.73&spd=1.03&Agi=1.72&mhit=1.62&Int=1.43&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.43&Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 200000.00h
elapsed real time: 561.81s
simulation speed: 1281569x

Last edited by CroMe : 06/18/09 at 9:10 AM.
#2173SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tortugapir8
Originally Posted by Sekhem View Post
Is there a chance of getting the source for this new version, so I can compile for the Mac platform and include in iEnhSim? It seems this branch is where actual development is getting done, so I believe it's best for me to have my project using this engine as well.
Sure, the source is available here:

http://www.apatheia.org/download/es_1703.zip
#2174SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
I'm still seeing a random 20-25 dps increase in overall damage on occasion when running the Sim. Normally it would be very stable to within 2-3 dps no matter how often I ran the sim. Now, I find myself running at least 3-4 sims at 5000 hours each time until I'm satisfied I know the base dps value to pass on to my friend. Is there something wrong with the Sim that needs to be fixed to solve this problem?
#2175SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Verges are you still unable to get your version of the source compiled with the multi-threading enabled?
#2176SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ruga
Originally Posted by tortugapir8 View Post
New version 1.7.0.3 compiled and available at:


http://www.apatheia.org/download/enhsim.exe
MD5 Hash: F65AEF34965BAC370D22C4894958C761


This version nails down the armor penetration bugs and damage reduction formulas.

Thanks for that!

I noticed that the "Unknown Trinket: xyz" message is gone for Mjolnir Runestone (45931) and Blood of the Old God (45522).
Is it right to assume that they've been implemented or did you just disable that output?
#2177SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
Originally Posted by tortugapir8 View Post
This build is based on the 1.7.0 source and contains the following modifications:
  • Added support for the following trinkets: Dark Matter, Blood of the Old God, Mjolnir, and the Elemental Focus Stone
  • Updated Armor Penetration formula (exact changes can be seen above)


They are implemented.
#2178SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tortugapir8
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Verges are you still unable to get your version of the source compiled with the multi-threading enabled?
Yeah, I'm still not getting ZTHREADS to work, I'll have to spend some more time on this one. I'm also having troubles getting it to work in DEBUG aka combat log mode as well. Stupid C++
#2179SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
I've created a new site where users can post tickets and discussions about the new builds of EnhSim. I'll need to grant Verges access once he gets back to me on his user account. The plan is to host this branch and keep EnhSim alive until either Tukez returns and is willing to maintain the original or the Java version is stable and available for public use.

The new site is EnhSim - Home the latest v1.7.0.3 packaged with GUI & default config file is available for download there.

NB. The gui is the original Tukez version as we don't have the source for it. So its unlikely to ever get updated. This is only important so far as the drop downs are concerned they don't have the new trinkets. However typing in the item ID or using ShockAndAwe/Rawr exports will work just fine.

Last edited by Levva : 06/19/09 at 10:28 AM.
#2180SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rawrr
I selected the naxx melee and worldbreaker set bonuses on the gui, but I'm getting the message, "Set bonus not found". What's wrong with this?
#2181SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kelben
I'm having a bit of issue when running the enhance sim, its giving a huge value for intell - 5-28 ep value and I cannot figure out why for the life of me, I've been through the sim repeated and I cannot figure it out. Any suggestions on why it is extremely overrating intell?
#2182SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rani
Originally Posted by kelben View Post
I'm having a bit of issue when running the enhance sim, its giving a huge value for intell - 5-28 ep value and I cannot figure out why for the life of me, I've been through the sim repeated and I cannot figure it out. Any suggestions on why it is extremely overrating intell?
Uncheck the box "simulate mana"
#2183SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Staticus
Putting SR to the top of the priority list will solve the int problem.
#2184SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I've uploaded a new EnhSim v1.7.0.3b.zip to EnhSim - Release: V1.7.0.3b the major new addition to the zip is a pre-compiled Mac version for all you Mac users out there. Let me know how you get on using it.
#2185SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I've uploaded a new EnhSim v1.7.0.3b.zip to EnhSim - Release: V1.7.0.3b the major new addition to the zip is a pre-compiled Mac version for all you Mac users out there. Let me know how you get on using it.
the Mac binary does'nt work.
BTW, Sekhem_FM/dankitymao should publish soon an 1.7.3 updated version of ienhsim - Google Code
#2186SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
the Mac binary does'nt work.
Many thanks for the detailed and informative post giving full diagnostic information to enable me to fix the problem. Seriously mate what do you expect me to do with that info?
#2187SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
Double clicking:
Administrator$ /Volumes/Scratch/Downloads/EnhSim-v1/EnhSim ; exit;
-bash: /Volumes/Scratch/Downloads/EnhSim-v1/EnhSim: cannot execute binary file
logout

[Process completed]
From Terminal:
kyle-2:~ Administrator$ cd /Volumes/Scratch/Downloads/EnhSim-v1 
kyle-2:EnhSim-v1 Administrator$ ./EnhSim
-bash: ./EnhSim: cannot execute binary file
kyle-2:EnhSim-v1 Administrator$
PPC G5x2
#2188SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Many thanks for the detailed and informative post giving full diagnostic information to enable me to fix the problem. Seriously mate what do you expect me to do with that info?
check the size of the executable (8K) before publishing it?
#2189SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by bobxii View Post
Double clicking:
Administrator$ /Volumes/Scratch/Downloads/EnhSim-v1/EnhSim ; exit;
-bash: /Volumes/Scratch/Downloads/EnhSim-v1/EnhSim: cannot execute binary file
logout

[Process completed]
From Terminal:
kyle-2:~ Administrator$ cd /Volumes/Scratch/Downloads/EnhSim-v1 
kyle-2:EnhSim-v1 Administrator$ ./EnhSim
-bash: ./EnhSim: cannot execute binary file
kyle-2:EnhSim-v1 Administrator$
PPC G5x2
PPC G5x2 means nothing to me. I'm vaguely aware that Macs have different processors. Would the information that it was compiled on a MacBook help? Does this mean its Intel only? If so I'll update the site to indicate this.
#2190SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
PPC means PowerPC, as in not Intel (like the Macbook has); however the application info states that it is a "Universal" app (meaning dual executables, one for each architecture), so it should run on PowerPC just fine.

Why it doesn't, I have no idea.
#2191SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
eikons
This has been bothering be for a while now. I have not read all 2k+ posts in this thread so it might have been dealt with.

It's already been said that Rawr is overvaluing the SP stat (link) and thus shows Wraith Strike as a very good weapon while it might not be. I was eager to try this out so I did, but not without using EnhSim to check it. I expected EnhSim to clearly show this was not the case, but it did the opposite. It gives me a DPS increase of roughly 160 dps ABOVE Golden Saronite Dragon.(And basically all other known viable MH's)

Here's the rawr exports I used:

Wraith Strike:
##########################################
### Rawr.Enhance Data Export to EnhSim ###
##########################################

config_source rawr

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          90.0
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         29.00
oh_crit                         29.00
mh_hit                          13.97
oh_hit                          13.97
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              3651
melee_haste                     16.06
armor_penetration               2.52
str                             131
agi                             829
int                             540
spi                             154
spellpower                      1556
spell_crit                      21.58
spell_hit                       17.46
spell_haste                     12.35
max_mana                        12216
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
mh_weapon                       -
oh_enchant                      3789
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        45286

totem                           40322
set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -
glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -


#############
## Talents ##
#############

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

#########
# Buffs #
#########

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              0.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             0.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60
bloodlust_casters               1
flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

combat_length                   6.00
Result: 3186.77 DPS

And with Golden Saronite Dragon:
##########################################
### Rawr.Enhance Data Export to EnhSim ###
##########################################

config_source rawr

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.7
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          188.1
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         28.71
oh_crit                         28.71
mh_hit                          15.31
oh_hit                          15.31
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              3734
melee_haste                     16.25
armor_penetration               2.52
str                             131
agi                             861
int                             497
spi                             154
spellpower                      1120
spell_crit                      20.64
spell_hit                       19.14
spell_haste                     12.50
max_mana                        11571
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
mh_weapon                       -
oh_enchant                      3789
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        45286

totem                           40322
set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -
glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -


#############
## Talents ##
#############

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

#########
# Buffs #
#########

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              0.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             0.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60
bloodlust_casters               1
flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

combat_length                   6.00
Result: 3082.91 DPS

Am I dealing with a known issue, a bug, or is Wraith Strike actually a viable MH weapon?
I am using Rawr 2.2.7 and EnhSim 1.7.0

Thanks.

Last edited by eikons : 06/24/09 at 9:53 AM. Reason: additional information
#2192SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Does the sim by any chance show that you are mana starved? Because that would explain what you are seeing.

Disable simulate mana if that is the case.
#2193SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
eikons
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Does the sim by any chance show that you are mana starved? Because that would explain what you are seeing.

Disable simulate mana if that is the case.
I have ran the sim with and without mana simulation. Obtained similar results - The ones posted in my previous post are in fact the ones where mana simulation was checked off.

Last edited by eikons : 06/24/09 at 10:42 AM.
#2194SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by eikons View Post
Am I dealing with a known issue, a bug, or is Wraith Strike actually a viable MH weapon?
I am using Rawr 2.2.7 and EnhSim 1.7.0

Thanks.
Rawr.Enhance v2.2.7 needs to be patched to v2.2.7.19935 please see Rawr.Enhance - Enhancement Shaman DPS calculator for details and patch download. This fixes a GCD haste issue where haste is wildly overvalued in certain situations.

V2.2.7 implements GCD interference model which has fixed the Wraith strike issue. In posting your config you completely neglected to either post the whole config so that people could run the sim and confirm your results or post the results for us to check. You need to post the key part of the config that isn't part of the export so that we can see what might be wrong. You also are using an out of date version of EnhSim, the current version is 1.7.0.3 and is available at EnhSim - Home
#2195SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3OnosKT
Hm, I think there is an issue with the way your rotation is defined. Using your configs I get:

5236 DPS - strike
5377 DPS for GSD

So could you post your rotation settings?
#2196SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Hm, I think there is an issue with the way your rotation is defined. Using your configs I get:

5236 DPS - strike
5377 DPS for GSD

So could you post your rotation settings?
That's a 141 dps upgrade from a single slot. I just ran the two in Enhsim and ended up with a 130 dps upgrade switching from Wrath to GSD so seems pretty much as expected.
#2197SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
eikons
Thank you for your quick responses!

I have updated Rawr.Enhance to v2.2.7.19935 already. I neglected to mention that as it was not very relevant to the question at the end of my post. The position Wraith Strike takes in the list is the almost the same as it was in v2.2.7 - although some PvP weapons and Calamity slipped back above it with a minor margin.

As for the Simulator, I've updated it to 1.7.0.3b. I was not aware there was a new version as the gui links to EnhSim: Downloads where the updated version is not (yet) posted.

The updated EnhSim seems to work correctly, although I still find it surprising how "well" Wraith competes considering it being an SP weapon.

Here's all settings I use btw. I've overwritten the old version So I can't say what the settings were on my previous test, surely I've done something very wrong.
### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 		ES_SS
rotation_priority3 		SS
rotation_priority4 		ES
rotation_priority5 		MT
rotation_priority6 		LL
rotation_priority7 		SR
rotation_priority8 		SW 

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         29.92
oh_crit                         29.92
mh_hit                          13.97
oh_hit                          13.97
mh_expertise_rating             128
oh_expertise_rating             128
ap                              3778
melee_haste                     13.08
armor_penetration               2.52
str                             131
agi                             865
int                             497
spi                             154
spellpower                      1133
spell_crit                      21.80
spell_hit                       17.46
spell_haste                     10.06
max_mana                        11571
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        45286
trinket2                        40684

totem                           40322

set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Anyways thank you again for your quick responses and awesome work on EnhSim/Rawr!

Last edited by eikons : 06/24/09 at 12:51 PM.
#2198SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by eikons View Post
although I still find it surprising how "well" Wraith competes considering it being an SP weapon.
Spellpower weapons have always been good if they are the proper speed since speed matters a lot more then weapon dps especially on a mainhand.

My EP values for mainhand weapon dps is around 5.3 but my EP value for 0.1 mainhand weapon speed is over 700. If Blizzard gave us a 232 caster dps claw with a 2.7 speed I would bet large sums of gold that it would beat the crap outta GSD even though it would be 7 ilevels below it. Wrathstrike is basically equal to Calamity's Grasp even though CG is 13 ilevels better. Please keep all of that in mind before disparaging SP weapons.
#2199SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3hozzer
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
My EP values for mainhand weapon dps is around 5.3 but my EP value for 0.1 mainhand weapon speed is over 700.
Are you sure you didn't slip a decimal point there? I got around 70 EP for 0.1 mainhand weapon speed and use 700 as the value for 1 weapon speed in lootrank.
#2200SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by hozzer View Post
Are you sure you didn't slip a decimal point there? I got around 70 EP for 0.1 mainhand weapon speed and use 700 as the value for 1 weapon speed in lootrank.
eh, I might of. I've updated my values for lootrank months ago and have 700 listed in it so it indeed may be 70 per 0.1 and not 700. Point still stands though as having that caster weapon at a 2.6 speed is what really matters in making it viable for enhancement.

If weapon speed is a constant then we are left evaluating the other stats.

WS
90.3 dps
461 spellpower

vs

CG
171.3 dps
98 AP

81dps difference = 429.3 EP
461 - 98 = 363 EP

putting CG at 66.3 EP over WS

Actual EP values I get for them from lootrank

CG = 3008.65
WS = 2953.88
(keep in mind that CG is 13 ilevels over WS)

GSD (an equivalent 13 ilevel push over CG) = 3225.93

Gimme a 232 caster weapon (7 ilevels less) with a 2.7 speed and I still will bet it's gonna be worth more then GSD. Just not holding my breath for Blizzard to itemize one for us.
#2201SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rokshan
Is there any problem known with simming totems?
I beleave since I have reinstalled my pc i get errors when I try to sim with totems in the priority list.
Everything works well without the totems in the list.
#2226SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
The computation would be exponential on the number of item slots (assuming a multiple options for each slot). However the number of slots is fixed for practical applications. If you have some total number of items N with m slots, you maximize the number of combinations at (N/m) items per slot, with the number of combinations being (N/m)^m, or N^m / m^m. Of course with m being constant (17? maybe more if you count glyphs etc.) this will be O(N^m) which would be clearly in P.
Ugh, you are right. Silly me. I blame too much coffee and not enough sleep.

As to the topic at hand. You say you'll include some mechanism to compare two items, Malan. I take it that regular runs with some constant output like EP is still going to be able given your current set? I would have offered to help but my time is limited.

I was flirting with the idea of writing a Python wrapper around the current EnhSim to test out potential upgrades and calculate a personal BiS list. It doesn't sound too hard but recalculating gem slots and such made me shelve the idea. Anyway, the idea was to feed the script with a set of items and let it generate config files for enhsim. Let it parse data during the night or something and let it return with the findings once it cannot find a better combination. If you already incorporate an option to check one item, you can easily do several.
#2227SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3paladyin
Originally Posted by Synkronos View Post
The sim doesn't build up your stats from actual items and gems and enchants tho, it relies on being fed those values pre-calculated by WoW
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
The new jEnhSim will do this. We are modeling gear on a per-slot basis, to include gems.
Rawr already does that very well. It also has an armory scraper and a button to export to EnhSim.

I urge you not to spend development time and focus on things that already exist - but rather on the "core business" of the simulator.

Thanks for doing this work! Looking forward to 1.0.
#2228SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sekhem
I sincerely apologize for my absence -- sadly, the business that I own and various RL concerns kind've took over for a while.

The good news is this - iEnhSim 1.0.4, including multithreading, Vergas' 1.7.0.3 engine, and the new trinkets that 1.7.0.3 supports (Mjolnir, Blood of the Old God, Dark Matter, and Elemental Focus Stone), is now available at ienhsim.googlecode.com !

I will try to keep updates much more frequent from this point forward.

Also, as a little bonus for those who haven't discovered it yet ... the Shaman icon in the lower right corner is clickable.

I know that the development of jEnhSim is underway, but hopefully this gives my fellow Mac users something to use in the here and now =D

Edit: It's not a huge deal, since iEnhSim is already hosted at Google Code, but is there any chance of getting a mention on the new site at Codeplex?

Also...I forgot to mention ... iEnhSim is now FULLY Universal Binary! PowerPC users, rejoice
#2229SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by paladyin View Post
Rawr already does that very well. It also has an armory scraper and a button to export to EnhSim.

I urge you not to spend development time and focus on things that already exist - but rather on the "core business" of the simulator.

Thanks for doing this work! Looking forward to 1.0.
+1 to this.

Rawr works great, but we always get the nagging feeling that we don't know if the numbers are 100%. Even if jEnhsim is great, we would (and should) have the same doubts. For this reason I don't see serious theorycrafters moving away from one or the other, so hopefully the non-overlapping features hold priorty
#2230SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Originally Posted by paladyin View Post
Rawr already does that very well. It also has an armory scraper and a button to export to EnhSim.

I urge you not to spend development time and focus on things that already exist - but rather on the "core business" of the simulator.
Uh, what? There's no reason whatsoever that we can't have an easier to use interface for the simulation, which as noted is one of our major goals. As for 'wasted development time', we basically knocked out that aspect of the interface in about 2 evenings of coding between me and one of the other devs.

Originally Posted by Raut View Post
As to the topic at hand. You say you'll include some mechanism to compare two items, Malan. I take it that regular runs with some constant output like EP is still going to be able given your current set? I would have offered to help but my time is limited.
Yah my plan (dependent on the others of course) is to have a panel for your current gear (we have this implemented) and then a second identical panel for any changes. You can then run sims and EP calcs on your current gear as normal. Or, you can make some changes to the 2nd set of gear (the idea being that you leave anything blank to say "use existing here" and we just copy that over) and hit the 'compare' button - now the sim will run a set of simulations against both sets of gear (base set, and base set with the changes inserted) and provide output about the DPS differences of each one.

Last edited by Malan : 07/10/09 at 10:32 PM.
#2231SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Care to explain this in more detail? Showing items X and Y as A and B "EP" shouldn't be any different from C and D "DPS". EP translates into DPS after all. Swapping items would ruin your fundament for reaching that figure, it being EP or DPS. Or are you trying to incorporate some subtraction of items into the equation to get this "DPS" number?

I'm all for you guys rebuilding EnhSim in Java to make it more portable and what Malan wrote about making fixed variables exist outside of the binary for easy editing sound good. However, I don't think swapping EP for DPS would be a good choice if you're not planning to subtract the item you are replacing in favor of this new item and running the sim again with the new stats. If nothing else, EP is abstract enough to allow us to give it certain rules, like "EP is highly situational and will vary when you change items or change ability priority". If you say item X has A DPS and item Y has B DPS where B > A, and swapping the two results in a DPS loss, I'm sure the jEnhSim thread will be consumed in flames. (Imagine the calculation where your findings gave hit and exp low to zero "DPS" because caps were reached. You swap for a crit trinket and DPS goes down.)

I may be missing some vital part of the puzzle here and if so please enlighten me.

(Hm. Is calculating every piece of gear to find a BiS list an NP complete problem?)

The sim computes DPS based on a set of gear, if you give it your current gear and calc dps then change an item and calc its dps you can compare the difference as a change in DPS. This is basic basic stuff.

Now to do the same with EP, you calculate the EP values of your current gear, and work out the EP value of the item you are swapping, then swap it and calculate the new EP values and see what changed.

However the problem is do you use the EP values of the gear before you swap the item to compare the two items or the EP values after you compare the two items, or the EP value for one item before the change vs the EP value for the other after the change?? Its perfectly possible to find the EP value for an item changes by equipping it.

eg: You want to check out if a trinket is an upgrade. With EP you calc your EP values and apply that to the old trinket and the new one and find that the new trinket is better. So you equip the new trinket. HOWEVER it can happen that if you now recalculate the EP values (now the new trinket is equipped) and apply it to the old trinket and the new that the changes in EP are such that the OLD trinket now has a higher EP value.

THIS is why relying on EP is a BAD idea. When the sim produces raw dps figures why would you convert to the moving target that is EP.

Instead what you should compare is the dps of your gear without anything in that slot, vs the dps with old trinket and dps of new trinket. That then gives you the dps value of old trinket and dps value of new trinket. This then makes a simple comparison possible.


One of the goals I'd like to see for jEnhSim is to add an optimiser. This would take one or more gear options for each slot and try to determine what is the highest dps of those combinations of gear. In order to do this doing a basic "try every combo" would never work as the number of combinations rapidly grows beyond what would be a reasonable execution time. So instead the plan is to use a Genetic Algorithm to quickly hone in on the BiS solution. A mate of mine has written textbooks on GAs and has offered to help.


However this is all a long way off as first we need more help to actually build the sim. At present there is NO development on EnhSim, I've set up a site with the source but no-one is working on it so we will not have a v3.2 patch sim unless someone volunteers to help. The problem really is that EnhSim in C++ is not something that any of the current volunteers has much experience with and so its REALLY difficult to maintain without break it and giving false results. Instead the hope is to build a new sim in Java that we do actually know how it works but at present only two people are really working on it which is simply not enough.

My own time is vanishingly small over the next few months. I've barely been able to keep up on the forums let alone do any development work, hence no ShockAndAwe updates, no Rawr updates etc. I suspect I may be able to do some work on these things the 2nd week in August when I'm off on a training course in London. However at the end of August I'm off on holiday for 3 weeks so not likely to be able to do much until the end of September.

So please volunteer people.
#2232SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
The sim computes DPS based on a set of gear, if you give it your current gear and calc dps then change an item and calc its dps you can compare the difference as a change in DPS. This is basic basic stuff.

Now to do the same with EP, you calculate the EP values of your current gear, and work out the EP value of the item you are swapping, then swap it and calculate the new EP values and see what changed.

However the problem is do you use the EP values of the gear before you swap the item to compare the two items or the EP values after you compare the two items, or the EP value for one item before the change vs the EP value for the other after the change?? Its perfectly possible to find the EP value for an item changes by equipping it.

eg: You want to check out if a trinket is an upgrade. With EP you calc your EP values and apply that to the old trinket and the new one and find that the new trinket is better. So you equip the new trinket. HOWEVER it can happen that if you now recalculate the EP values (now the new trinket is equipped) and apply it to the old trinket and the new that the changes in EP are such that the OLD trinket now has a higher EP value.

THIS is why relying on EP is a BAD idea. When the sim produces raw dps figures why would you convert to the moving target that is EP.

Instead what you should compare is the dps of your gear without anything in that slot, vs the dps with old trinket and dps of new trinket. That then gives you the dps value of old trinket and dps value of new trinket. This then makes a simple comparison possible.
I'm still not seeing it. The current EnhSim gives you raw DPS. With some UI improvements (I've never used the UI so I'm guessing here) you could implement some item comparison. So you could run three sims: no item, old item and new item. By this you could give an item it's "raw" DPS figure. Not sure if you can get away with less than three runs in your model, but I doubt it.

We know EP is flawed and is currently the red headed stepchild that everyone loves to beat. Still it the best way for us to predict upgrades, not actually calculate them. EnhSim and whatnot could still give you a raw DPS figure for an item if a wrapper was in place. I, and I bet most of you, already know that EP is limited by certain rules and we have to apply some thought into items before we can assert it is an upgrade. Wonky haste values, soft and hard caps, weapon speed and so on. Still, it is the only way for us to predict upgrades that do not follow a strict stats+X upgrade path. I don't see how you can offer something like this in jEnhSim without running every possible upgrade or inventing "jEP - the totally new scale that is totally not EP". Also having the different stats broken down to how much they contribute is a huge plus in my book.

So far this is the only thing that I've reacted on with jEnhSim. Maybe it's me explaining poorly as this predicting issue is what's bothering me and I haven't seen it addressed. I wouldn't mind both DPS and EP.
#2233SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Ok as I see it EP is simply a quick n dirty method for humans to work out the value of an item without a computer. You can take a set of EP values and manually apply them to items.

With computers you can quite easily work out the ACTUAL dps contribution of any item. If you have ever used Rawr you would know what I mean. Whilst it uses a closed form solution rather than a sim it does very quickly and easily display what items are upgrades and every single item it displays shows its actual dps contribution, rather than some vague EP value.

So you are very wrong to state that EP is the only way to predict upgrades.
#2234SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
I don't think I am. The means to get a prediction greatly affect the actual worth of said prediction. Rawr uses far simpler models to reach an item's worth. That's not a flaw in Rawr, it's just that enhancement theory doesn't fit into typical Rawr modules because you can't find good mean values for abilities. For enhancement you simulate over time.

Then again, your view may be that the Rawr enhance module is good enough. Mine is that it isn't. If that is your standpoint, then yes, from your PoV I am wrong.

Are you trying to move jEnhSim away from being a simulator? I wouldn't expect you too if nothing else than the name. If jEnhSim still is meant to simulate every change, possibly with longer execution time due to the move to Java, you are looking at a crapton of hours to check most items from a new instance like Ulduar. If you plan to make a "DPS" variable to stats for actual loot predictions, I don't see how that is an improvement over what EP is today.

EP isn't quick and dirty. It's a variable set by hours of simulation. Like most simulations that try to predict unknown changes it's not completely reliable.
#2235SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
A simple comparison is not what I care about when trying to Min/Max. If it was simple then a lot of the scrubs that suck wouldn't really suck quite so hard, it would just be ability execution that determined how good/bad they are.

I personally dislike EP, but I still find it to be the best way to determine gear. Granted, I check my EP values after increasing each stat individually and then I check them after once again by seeing how they adjust when I raise 2 or more values or raise one and lower another and I try to find the optimal means to obtain my goals. Then I test this ingame and try multiple different gemming schemas over a few weeks in actual encounters to see how they play out in "real-world" conditions and realistic problems that occur in practice whilst DPS'ing. The sim after all, can only prepare you for a perfect scenario.

It's obvious to me however from reading this thread that everyone seems to determine their gear upgrades through a different method, and many end up coming to the same conclusions or close to one another, so I would say, to each his own. What it comes down to at that point is gemming and enchanting for what you need.

I probably didn't convey myself as clearly as I could but I do think I got my point across.
#2236SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Falcon213
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
I don't think I am. The means to get a prediction greatly affect the actual worth of said prediction. Rawr uses far simpler models to reach an item's worth. That's not a flaw in Rawr, it's just that enhancement theory doesn't fit into typical Rawr modules because you can't find good mean values for abilities. For enhancement you simulate over time.
...

EP isn't quick and dirty. It's a variable set by hours of simulation. Like most simulations that try to predict unknown changes it's not completely reliable.
I think you got lost somewhere. EP is "quick and dirty" in that, with the EP values for you're current set of gear, it is a way to tell at a quick glance if one piece is better than another, although swapping pieces could greatly change your EP calcs. So while it is good for judging a single upgrade, it is pretty ineffective at judging multiple changes to your gear setup.

By simming the difference in DPS, however, you can better compare entire sets of gear as well as see exactly how much a change will affect you. (EP values cannot tell you this because large upgrades in EP for one piece may drop the EP on another piece.)
#2237SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Well Levaa's point is that EP is *not* actually a way to see if an item is 'better' than another item. It's a good way to check in-game for the relative value of some items. But unless the items you're comparing have the same stat allocations with different values, then you can't strictly say that an item with a higher EP total is best. But you can sim your gear stats with that item and compare against your current set to find out if it actually is an increase or not.

I've actually had this happen lately where several upgrades cause certain known BiS items to drastically plunge in EP value - the hard mode neck from Freya in particular.

So anyways, all Levaa is saying is that in his view we should move toward referring to the dps potential of an item (relative to your equipped gear) rather than EP.
#2238SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Falcon213 View Post
I think you got lost somewhere. EP is "quick and dirty" in that, with the EP values for you're current set of gear, it is a way to tell at a quick glance if one piece is better than another, although swapping pieces could greatly change your EP calcs. So while it is good for judging a single upgrade, it is pretty ineffective at judging multiple changes to your gear setup.

By simming the difference in DPS, however, you can better compare entire sets of gear as well as see exactly how much a change will affect you. (EP values cannot tell you this because large upgrades in EP for one piece may drop the EP on another piece.)
Reread my posts. I shouldn't have brought up this "quick and dirty" thing as it's meaning is subjective and for me there is nothing quick or dirty by getting a stat's worth by simulating thousands of hours worth of combat. You should see from my arguments that I fully understand what EP is and isn't.

Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Well Levaa's point is that EP is *not* actually a way to see if an item is 'better' than another item. It's a good way to check in-game for the relative value of some items. But unless the items you're comparing have the same stat allocations with different values, then you can't strictly say that an item with a higher EP total is best. But you can sim your gear stats with that item and compare against your current set to find out if it actually is an increase or not.

I've actually had this happen lately where several upgrades cause certain known BiS items to drastically plunge in EP value - the hard mode neck from Freya in particular.

So anyways, all Levaa is saying is that in his view we should move toward referring to the dps potential of an item (relative to your equipped gear) rather than EP.
This is what I got from Levva as well, but how are you planning to use the sim for comparing several items? Or are you even planning to support such a thing? I guess a recursive approach would do this but we're talking trying any combination of the supplied list to make sure you're not leaving the actual BiS set out of the sim.

For testing some new gloves and boots we're taking:
* Regular DPS sim
* Sim without gloves
* Sim with new gloves
* Sim without boots
* Sim with new boots
* Sim with new boots and new gloves

If you toss in a couple of bracers you can add:
* Sim without bracers
* Sim with new bracers
* Sim with new bracers and gloves
* Sim with new bracers and boots
* Sim with new bracers, boots and gloves

This stacks up very fast. Doing clean runs without doing the combo runs would be as detrimental as trusting EP blindly.

I understand that several people dislike EP. I also understand it's fundamental flaws and how it is misleading to insert them into lootrank and expect a BiS list to appear. Still, EnhSim calculates EP values by adding these stats to your current set.

I've said this before but maybe I haven't made myself clear; using EP is a neat way of guessing the future. Yes, it's limited by your current set and a stat's worth is how much DPS you gain by adding the template stat value from the config. It still shows you a trend. Based on this trend, which is far from as correct as simming all potential future upgrades, you can see items that stand out on top of your list. Based on this list and what I've gathered about jEnhSim, you can verify these findings by running actual sims on this trend. Using maybe the top two items in each slot(we're probably talking hours of CPU time to test 17x2 slots if you are planning something like I suggested above). The result can give you an answer to the trend and also suggest a new trend if you so wish. If the new trend, based on EP, looks very different from the first one, you start over. You will still have eliminated hours and hours of actual sim time compared to a whole instance. And without EP, how could you not include the whole instance's loot table? You have no way to weight stats.

By the end of jEnhSim(Raut edition)'s cycles of calculating EP and looking over trends(like looking at lootrank), you'd end up with a set that the sim cannot find suitable upgrades for.
#2239SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Nah my thought on the process was:
1) Input your current equipment with enchants and gems
2) Input any changes you want to make to that on a second panel. This would include changing out any gems to stay at/under caps.
3) The sim runs a thread for set and shows you the dps differences.

So if you wanted to add a different set of bracers, gloves and boots all at once, you'd get a single sim run showing the result of equipping all three of those simultaneously (along with any gemming/enchant changes).

The whole idea was to simplify the most common uses of the sim, one of which is to anwer "is item 1 better than item 2?"
#2240SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
You'd need three "naked" runs with each of the current items taken off first. Then single upgrade runs for each of the three upgrades and finally a run with all three potential upgrades. That is if I correctly understand your goal of getting a DPS figure for each item. Then again, you could argue that this approach was wrong as you are moving towards a new set and comparing each piece in the old set environment will make DPS values polluted by the old set. An item's relative worth in the new set could be very different from the old.

At least I've gotten the answer I was looking for. jEnhSim will discontinue any loot prognosis bar simming each and every possible upgrade and for it to work on a BiS list, it has to sim every combination of sets that you give it. I urge you to reconsider. For those of us that have no problems working with the limitations of EP, we are losing a pretty nifty tool. I fully support your claim that a sim run on an item is the only way to make sure you are looking at an upgrade. Our problem now would be that of 10-30 slot_x items, we would have to run sims. Not only that but there are 17 slots in total and single upgrade sim runs are only slightly better than EP because of stat shifting.
#2241SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Falcon213
I suppose if someone wanted to create a wrapper that was fed a list of items and then continued to calculate a BiS list overnight that would be possible, but not with the default version.

And AFAIK, EP hasn't been abandoned. It still has its uses even for those who don't use it to find gear upgrades, for gems and enchants.
#2242SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
I'm... not sure if you are trying to troll me, Falcon213. Your posts seem to be very erratic. We've already talked about wrappers that can calculate individual upgrades. For an entire instance, we're talking around 10 items that you should check for each slot. That's 2 015 993 900 449 combinations. If the sim used one second on every iteration of gear, we'd still look at 23 333 262 days worth of sim time.

From what I've gathered, both Malan and Levva have stated that EP is undesirable and they are moving away from it. I'm trying to rally for it's future survival.
#2243SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
I don't know that you can really say there are 10 viable choices for BiS for each item slot. At worst I would say there are 4-5, and in some cases BiS is quite obvious even with a wide range of EP values (which are admitedly flawed, but if you open the range up, they can definitely bracket "true" EP values).

I'd say a more realistic situation is one where you have 3 options for BiS in each of the 17 slots (personally I still feel this is quite conservative as I'm usually deciding between 2-3 in some slots, with some having clear winners). So 17 slots ^ 3 options per slot, gives only 4913 different combinations. A much more reasonable number, and while it would still take on the order of days to sim every combination, it's doable.



TLDR: A few simple assumptions, and well informed decisions about reasonable choices for best in slot items can make it a manageable problem.
#2244SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
You'd need three "naked" runs with each of the current items taken off first. Then single upgrade runs for each of the three upgrades and finally a run with all three potential upgrades. That is if I correctly understand your goal of getting a DPS figure for each item. Then again, you could argue that this approach was wrong as you are moving towards a new set and comparing each piece in the old set environment will make DPS values polluted by the old set. An item's relative worth in the new set could be very different from the old.

At least I've gotten the answer I was looking for. jEnhSim will discontinue any loot prognosis bar simming each and every possible upgrade and for it to work on a BiS list, it has to sim every combination of sets that you give it. I urge you to reconsider. For those of us that have no problems working with the limitations of EP, we are losing a pretty nifty tool. I fully support your claim that a sim run on an item is the only way to make sure you are looking at an upgrade. Our problem now would be that of 10-30 slot_x items, we would have to run sims. Not only that but there are 17 slots in total and single upgrade sim runs are only slightly better than EP because of stat shifting.
Have you heard of Genetic Algorithms? These are computing techniques to solve problems where the number of possibilities are massive. I completely and utterly agree that taking even a couple of items per slot and attempting to work out every possible combo means that you could have hundreds of thousands of possible combos (especially if you are considering gems/enchants too which you'd have to do).

Running a sim for at least 10,000 hours sim time for every possible one of these hundreds of thousands of gear combos would take an unacceptable length of time. A Genetic Algorithm can be employed to short cut a lot of these combinations, by various possible methods it aims to hone in on the best solution with far far fewer runs of the sim. It might still take say 30-40 mins to do a BiS calc but it would at least give a result.

HOWEVER the initial aim of jEnhSim is to allow users to enter their gear setup and get a dps value in exactly the same manner as EnhSim. It will also be able to run and give you EP calcs so you won't actually lose anything. So I really really don't see what your problem is. Note also that Java apps will not run any noticeably slower than C++ due to JIT (just in time compilation), assuming of course you are running at least Java v6.

What we have been talking about making it easier to compare gear by having a side by side comparison option, you enter your gear and then say I want to compare this slot item. It will then run two different runs and show you the dps difference. We intend to make it much easier to compare two specific items. At present you need to convert stats to percentages and remember to add effects like AGI giving crit and AP and 30% SP. So changing AGI in current sim is a pain. In jEnhSim we aim to have stats per slot so you can just change the stats on that slot and re-run.

The BiS optimiser is a longer term goal and is most certainly not its initial focus. I trust this makes it easier to understand the goals?
#2245SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Nevets_69 View Post
I don't know that you can really say there are 10 viable choices for BiS for each item slot. At worst I would say there are 4-5, and in some cases BiS is quite obvious even with a wide range of EP values (which are admitedly flawed, but if you open the range up, they can definitely bracket "true" EP values).

I'd say a more realistic situation is one where you have 3 options for BiS in each of the 17 slots (personally I still feel this is quite conservative as I'm usually deciding between 2-3 in some slots, with some having clear winners). So 17 slots ^ 3 options per slot, gives only 4913 different combinations. A much more reasonable number, and while it would still take on the order of days to sim every combination, it's doable.

TLDR: A few simple assumptions, and well informed decisions about reasonable choices for best in slot items can make it a manageable problem.
You are assuming some form of deterministic mechanism to select you potential BiS list then? Will that be by look at what looks right and ilvl or something? I can guarantee your list will fall short a couple of items. How does [Pendant of Fiery Havoc] place itself in your list now? Given current EP values it's very high on my list and I wouldn't have considered it a potential BiS item.

Given the scenario above, I'm not disagreeing with you. You would have to select a subset of all gear to have any hope of completing a simulation. My point was that with EP you could easily cut most items from your list and concentrate on your potential BiS list. After simulating you repeat. After a few iterations you would have something the sim can't find suitable upgrades for.

Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Have you heard of Genetic Algorithms? These are computing techniques to solve problems where the number of possibilities are massive. I completely and utterly agree that taking even a couple of items per slot and attempting to work out every possible combo means that you could have hundreds of thousands of possible combos (especially if you are considering gems/enchants too which you'd have to do).

Running a sim for at least 10,000 hours sim time for every possible one of these hundreds of thousands of gear combos would take an unacceptable length of time. A Genetic Algorithm can be employed to short cut a lot of these combinations, by various possible methods it aims to hone in on the best solution with far far fewer runs of the sim. It might still take say 30-40 mins to do a BiS calc but it would at least give a result.

HOWEVER the initial aim of jEnhSim is to allow users to enter their gear setup and get a dps value in exactly the same manner as EnhSim. It will also be able to run and give you EP calcs so you won't actually lose anything. So I really really don't see what your problem is. Note also that Java apps will not run any noticeably slower than C++ due to JIT (just in time compilation), assuming of course you are running at least Java v6.

What we have been talking about making it easier to compare gear by having a side by side comparison option, you enter your gear and then say I want to compare this slot item. It will then run two different runs and show you the dps difference. We intend to make it much easier to compare two specific items. At present you need to convert stats to percentages and remember to add effects like AGI giving crit and AP and 30% SP. So changing AGI in current sim is a pain. In jEnhSim we aim to have stats per slot so you can just change the stats on that slot and re-run.

The BiS optimiser is a longer term goal and is most certainly not its initial focus. I trust this makes it easier to understand the goals?
I have heard of Genetic Algorithms. But the term alone isn't enough for me to understand how you are supposed to apply it.

As to "what my problem is"; This is the first time I've seen that there are plans to support some loot prediction in jEnhSim. So far I've been told that you are planning to "move away" from EP and that simulations of gear is much better. As no replacement system was mentioned I raised my concern. Plain comparing loot isn't viable so I hope you can see why I would be concerned. I haven't kept up with Java development for years and I have doubts about non-machine code running as fast as compiled machine code but I will take your word for it.

Having side by side comparison of slots like you describe above it a really nice feature and I have supported this from the beginning. My only concern was removing one of the two interesting variables from the current EnhSim, namely EP. Now I've been told jEnhSim will feature EP which is great. You are planning on a viable algorithm to replace EP and that's just superb. I'll join you in tossing EP on the deep end for something better the first chance we get.

Now that we're starting to understand eachother(or at least I am), care to explain in greater detail your plans for applying a generic algorithm or is there somewhere I can read your plans?
#2246SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
You'd need three "naked" runs with each of the current items taken off first. Then single upgrade runs for each of the three upgrades and finally a run with all three potential upgrades. That is if I correctly understand your goal of getting a DPS figure for each item.
Not what I had in mind. My plan was to support comparing set 1 vs set 2. The output would say something like "Set 1: 5000 dps. Set 2: 5050 DPS."

And when we say 'moving away from EP' we didn't mean removing it from the sim, just placing less emphasis on that and more emphasis on actually simulating the items that you want to use. (Which is really what people should be doing right now.)
#2247SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
I really don't get this "simming without X slot equipped" business. Calculating dps contribution for an item is just as meaningless as calculating its EP (I think this has been mentioned but the discussion continues). What we should care about is which is better between two (sets of) items. Of course, finding our best configuration involves many such comparisons, but we still shouldn't dally around with simming unequipped configs.

What's the site for enhsim source, and what's the distribution license on it? It seems like 3.2 changes shouldn't require any overhauls; accounting for new trinkets and set bonuses I guess should be it right? I certainly can't promise anything (let alone anything great) but if I have some time I might peek at it and see.
#2248SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
enhsim.codeplex.com

One of the major issues is that tukez never provided the source for the gui, only the for the backend.

Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I really don't get this "simming without X slot equipped" business.
I don't either. I don't see how anything other than "what I have now" vs "what I plan to equip" is meaningful.

Last edited by Malan : 07/13/09 at 5:15 PM.
#2249SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I really don't get this "simming without X slot equipped" business. Calculating dps contribution for an item is just as meaningless as calculating its EP (I think this has been mentioned but the discussion continues). What we should care about is which is better between two (sets of) items. Of course, finding our best configuration involves many such comparisons, but we still shouldn't dally around with simming unequipped configs.

What's the site for enhsim source, and what's the distribution license on it? It seems like 3.2 changes shouldn't require any overhauls; accounting for new trinkets and set bonuses I guess should be it right? I certainly can't promise anything (let alone anything great) but if I have some time I might peek at it and see.
PM me here Sylvand with your codeplex account name (you can set one up free) and I'll set you up with SVN access. I'm sure everyone really appreciates your offer of assistance.

Originally Posted by Raut View Post
You are assuming some form of deterministic mechanism to select you potential BiS list then?
My plan is that users can provide the sim with a list of possible gear they are interested in. This could be anything from what they want to compare in one slot as a possible upgrade to trying to build a 25 man hard mode BiS gearset from all known gear. The amount of gear users tell the sim to try to optimise will directly affect how many long it will take to get a solution. Emptying the wowhead database into the sim might give an answer next century. So users will need to be sensible however it should manage a few thousand options without too much trouble.


Originally Posted by Raut View Post
I have heard of Genetic Algorithms. But the term alone isn't enough for me to understand how you are supposed to apply it.

Now that we're starting to understand eachother(or at least I am), care to explain in greater detail your plans for applying a generic algorithm or is there somewhere I can read your plans?
Nothing much written up yet - other than this thread (perhaps we start a new one Malan?). A very good mate of mine has written Academic papers and given lectures on Genetic Algorithms and has agreed (aka had his arm twisted) to assist the design of the GA. Basically what you do is create a Chromosome search space (forgive me if I lose you at any point I might lose myself too as its rather new to me - also if anyone is studying GAs forgive me if I butcher your topic with my limited understanding). And you work out how good that set of Chromosomes are. There are different methodologies of doing this and the problem space has yet to be properly formulated. However its likely we will go for.

Head Slot
Shoulder Slot
...
Trinket two
Head Enchant
Shoulder Enchant
...
Ring two Enchant

as the parts of the Chromosome and each part will be filled with a value 1,2,3,..n where n is the number of options the user specified for that slot. If this is just 1 item the value of that part will always be 1 if there are more than one item (including variants on gemmings) then that part could be filled by a number up to n.

So the Chromosome representation is a string of numbers of a fixed length. (Head use item 1, shoulder use item 6, back use item 2 etc). This is effectively one possible combination of the players gear and will form an input to the sim. The sim will output a total dps value for that set of gear. Thus in a purely deterministic model you would work through each and every one of many many thousands of permutations to work out which set was best.

With a GA you take a small group of Chromosome representations and pick the best ones from the group discarding the rest. You then breed them (again lots of ways of doing this) attempting to pick the most attractive attributes (again lots of ways of achieving this) from each Chromosome. This produces a new Chromosome set which forms the next "generation" of possible solutions. The idea is that by "breeding" successful genes you hone in on the best result. You can also introduce random mutations of the genes with low probability with the idea of giving the process a nudge if its getting stuck on an invalid solution. The precise methods of selecting the breeding pairs, picking the attractive attributes and mutation parameters is part of the art of choosing a suitable GA methodology.

Basically what you do is start crude, and refine, so you might even start with a small time run of the sim eg: 1000 hrs and build up as it hones in on a solution until the final generation candidates could be running at 50k-100k hour sims to check exactly what the best was. The idea is that by trying possibles and discarding bad ones you hone in on what is best. Small example it could try swapping in a gem that had a lot of stamina instead of attackpower and it would rapidly realise that whenever it did those genes produced poorer offspring, so it would discard the weaker genes (solutions that used stamina gems) in favour of a survival of the fittest solution (ones that preferred attack power gems). Although every now and then it might have a mutation and have a crit gem instead which it would keep if it was better and discard if it wasn't. This actually works to very quickly with limited numbers of actual calculations to hone in on the solution. It is of course possibly that it gets stuck and doesn't find a solution but with careful design this possibility is minimised.

It all sounds terribly weird, however its how a huge amount of modern "solution builder" models work these days, from working out routes in SatNav systems, predicting the weather, financial forecasting models etc. There is a whole branch of Computer Science devoted to developing new GAs and methods of using them. My mate is deeply involved in this and as I say has written Academic papers on the subject. So I'll be guided by him in deciding what options might work.

We may also have in our midst some dedicated Computer Science students looking for a PhD Thesis project and this might just fit the bill as it has sufficient scope and possibility for original thought in the GA design. I'd be happy for any such individual to work on this as their PhD project.

However please understand that the implementation of a GA and an optimiser will be a stage of development only once the sim actually returns real results. As it would be impossible to construct a GA if you couldn't actually get any sim results in the first place.

Last edited by Levva : 07/13/09 at 7:35 PM.
#2250SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3dedmonwakeen
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
However please understand that the implementation of a GA and an optimiser will be a stage of development only once the sim actually returns real results. As it would be impossible to construct a GA if you couldn't actually get any sim results in the first place.
I wish I had considered EP-generation and gear-optimization from the start. SimulationCraft is by no means "slow", but there were many architectural decisions regarding performance and rng-vs-determinism I would revisit (or have already done so). Since I wanted to support all classes, I have sacrificed much on the altar of modularity and extensibility.

Regarding genetic algorithms: They are generally most-effective in situations where the evaluation is both semi-trivial and deterministic, while the solution space is ridiculously large. When you consider how gem choice can create many unique pieces, you definitely have the large search space even when you limit the initial gear choices. However, as fast as enhsim is....... I'm not sure if you will reach the runtime-accuracy trade-off that you need.

Some level of formal solution exists in Rawr for Enhancement Shaman, correct? Please consider baking this into your architecture from the beginning. I may be a "simulation guy", but I'm one who truly values the strengths of closed-form solutions. If your architecture can share a great deal of game mechanics between simulation and formulation, you will enable the use of multiple "solver" techniques. Yes, we can run our simulation with limited iterations, but when rolling down the gradients of your solution space, determinism is a very valuable attribute.

Good luck!

If you are interested in reducing variance at the cost of a little accuracy, I encourage you to check out: http://simulationcraft.googlecode.co...unk/sc_rng.cpp The use of roll-specific "smooth" RNG packages when performing EP-generation (not raw dps reporting) has been a HUGE runtime saver.
#2251SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
All right, I think I have the following implemented:

Trinkets:
Victor's Call
Talisman of Volatile Power
Banner of Victory
Abyssal Rune
Death's Verdict

Totems:
Relentless Gladiator's Totem of Indomitability
Furious Gladiator's Totem of Indomitability
Relentless Gladiator's Totem of Survival
Furious Gladiator's Totem of Survival
Totem of Electrifying Wind
Totem of Quaking Earth

T9 2/4 piece Elemental (regalia) and Enhancement (battlegear) set bonuses
Shamanistic Rage cooldown/coefficient change

I will probably spend some time doing some unit tests on these tomorrow, and I still need to figure out how to share the updates out for other folks to test. Until then, if you know of anything else I should add, either missing now (like the furious totems I've already got) or announced for 3.2 (I think I added all the items from mmo-champion and I also looked over the PTR notes) please post here or PM me.
#2252SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3paladyin
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Instead what you should compare is the dps of your gear without anything in that slot, vs the dps with old trinket and dps of new trinket. That then gives you the dps value of old trinket and dps value of new trinket. This then makes a simple comparison possible.
I am not sure why you mention simming with an empty slot.
The matter of simple comparisons is not simple, because of the caps. An item that changes the hit/expertise balance needs regemming/reenchanting in order to make a meaningful comparison. Today, with the tools we have, this is what I do to perform a "simple" item comparison:
1. Simulate dps with current gear
2. In rawr, replace the current item with the one I want to compare
3. Also in rawr, painstakingly regem/reenchant to optimize hit and expertise
4. Export the stats from rawr to enhsim, simulate, compare with results of step 1

Step 3 can be nothing at all or can affect several other items. From a purist minmaxing perspective it is also error prone, since the item change can affect the relative weights of stats (crit vs AP for example) but in my regemming I assume the "old" stat weights. Typically to adress this I have to make "feedback loops" betwen steps 3 and 4, and, as others also noted, real world tests.

Unfortunately I don't have the time to do this for each possible upgrade, and repeat the whole process after each actual upgrade. The compromise I use is ofc EP.

I am sure this is something you guys already thought about, personally I don't see any easy solutions, but having the ability to do this "in real time" (or just faster) would be kinda fantastic.
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Nah my thought on the process was:
1) Input your current equipment with enchants and gems
2) Input any changes you want to make to that on a second panel. This would include changing out any gems to stay at/under caps.
3) The sim runs a thread for set and shows you the dps differences.
[...]
The whole idea was to simplify the most common uses of the sim, one of which is to anwer "is item 1 better than item 2?"
OK, this is exactly the scenario I was describing as well. From Malan's (possibly simplifying) description, I see that the only improvement over today is that I won't use 2 separate tools (rawr and enhsim) but just jEnhSim. I hope it's more than this, because otherwise trying to recreate Rawr's paperdoll functions (including armory scraper and saving different configs) would not bring any obvious value.

TLDR:
- recreating the functions of EnhSim in Java - kudos, the community is addicted to the tool, tukez seems MIA
- recreating the paperdoll functions of Rawr in jEnhSim - questionable investment of time
- writing a gear optimizer in the future - kudos again, although I lack the apparatus to understand how this will realistically work
- getting rid of EP - only after we have a proven better alternative, please
#2253SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by paladyin View Post
I am not sure why you mention simming with an empty slot.
The matter of simple comparisons is not simple, because of the caps. An item that changes the hit/expertise balance needs regemming/reenchanting in order to make a meaningful comparison. Today, with the tools we have, this is what I do to perform a "simple" item comparison:
1. Simulate dps with current gear
2. In rawr, replace the current item with the one I want to compare
3. Also in rawr, painstakingly regem/reenchant to optimize hit and expertise
4. Export the stats from rawr to enhsim, simulate, compare with results of step 1

Step 3 can be nothing at all or can affect several other items. From a purist minmaxing perspective it is also error prone, since the item change can affect the relative weights of stats (crit vs AP for example) but in my regemming I assume the "old" stat weights. Typically to adress this I have to make "feedback loops" betwen steps 3 and 4, and, as others also noted, real world tests.

Unfortunately I don't have the time to do this for each possible upgrade, and repeat the whole process after each actual upgrade. The compromise I use is ofc EP.

I am sure this is something you guys already thought about, personally I don't see any easy solutions, but having the ability to do this "in real time" (or just faster) would be kinda fantastic.
Your step 3 is the problem, you don't need to do this manually. What Rawr allows for is to run the optimiser you can mark your equipment you have with green diamonds and then run the optimiser it then regems/re-enchants for you to optimise your dps. Check the provided video "Tour of Rawr" under the help menu if you aren't sure how to use it.

THIS is what the aim of the GA optimiser is in jEnhSim. You enter your current gear add in extra possible items and it will play around with the possibilities INCLUDING gems/enchants and tell you what is the best setup. Rawr already does this and does it well, however as has been noted actually simming an Enhancement setup rather than modelling it will give more accurate results.

It mimics what most people want from a sim, I have this bunch of gear equipped and this other stuff in my bags. "What combination of this kit and what gems/enchants gives me the best results?" The design of the optimiser is to answer this question.


Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I will probably spend some time doing some unit tests on these tomorrow, and I still need to figure out how to share the updates out for other folks to test.
I have given you full project co-ordinator rights to the project this means that you can create a release - just mark it as a beta. BTW I'd recommend version numbering it as v1.8.0. To create a release you simple zip up the package for release and use the release page to upload the zip file. Enter some comments about it and hey presto. Don't make it the default though until patch 3.2 hits and testing is completed.

Last edited by Levva : 07/14/09 at 6:54 AM.
#2254SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I will probably spend some time doing some unit tests on these tomorrow, and I still need to figure out how to share the updates out for other folks to test. Until then, if you know of anything else I should add, either missing now (like the furious totems I've already got) or announced for 3.2 (I think I added all the items from mmo-champion and I also looked over the PTR notes) please post here or PM me.

Mind updating the Orc option to include fist weapons? Also the engineering and tailoring bonuses will need to be updated.

Engineering

haste gloves - 340 haste for 10 seconds with a 1 minute cooldown to 340 haste for 12 seconds with a 1 minute cooldown
rocket gloves - 1440 to 1760 Fire damage on a 45 second cooldown to 1654 to 2020 Fire damage on a 45 second cooldown

Tailoring

Lightweave - 250 spellpower to 295 spellpower
Swordguard - 300 AP to 400 AP

Last edited by Rouncer : 07/14/09 at 9:43 AM.
#2255SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I will probably spend some time doing some unit tests on these tomorrow, and I still need to figure out how to share the updates out for other folks to test. Until then, if you know of anything else I should add, either missing now (like the furious totems I've already got) or announced for 3.2 (I think I added all the items from mmo-champion and I also looked over the PTR notes) please post here or PM me.
Can we please have Comet's Trail added to the trinket list in the coming update? Tyvm in advance.


Ulduar BiS list
I have recently begun using RAWR as a means of generating stat pages for export into Enhsim to identify a final BiS list. I am of the understanding that many people on this forum do not see value in a BiS list due to a) availability of gear and b) relative stat weightings and their volatility based on gear combinations. It is precisely this volatility though that I am looking to address in defining a BiS set. I am approaching BiS set up currently, and am tired of simming individual pieces of gear/enchants/gems etc in search of the highest dps, whilst always knowning that there is likely a different combination available to me that could result in 50-100 more dps. With Ulduar drawing to a close, I think it would be valuable to develop a finalised BiS set that people can look to in their remaining weeks of raiding.

I for one am particularly interested to explore the benefit of Comet's Trail/Dark Matter measured against the crit loss required to maintain hit cap, the ideal off-set tier item (Gloves or Shoulders?) and the ideal ring combination. I am certain that these are the main questions that other Ulduar 25 geared shaman are asking themselves, or will be asking themselves soon.

Since the sim provides us with a clear indication of our maximum dps potential, I am simply looking for the single gear/gem/enchant combination that provides me with the highest potential DPS.

I have done my own tests but given the number of potential combinations I think a collaborative approach would be best. I am envisaging:

a) an agreed set of parameters for any tests
b) the upload of paperdoll sheets (Rawr or other paperdoll interface) with accompanying config files demonstrating results.
c) correction and re-upload of sheets/configs until an optimal setup is reached. The integrity of the config pages will be important since they buff/lag variables must be consistent.

We can begin the process now and make amendments when Comet’s Trail is added to the sim (I am running latest exe through the 1.7.0 GUI btw)

I will start the ball rolling. A few words on the parameters:
1) I used 10m combat durations- most encounters run for approx 10 mins, and either way it certainly is not too short an amount of time to arrive at reliable data
2) I used 50-60 lag since this is the average US ping (yes I know this does not account for human reaction error, but I am interested in potential).
3) I used JC and LW for the professions as they both provide generic +64 AP.
4) I used a Tauren since they do not receive any dmg bonus from their racials. I am aware that the BiS gearing will be moderately affected by Draenei racial and slightly affected by Orc racial.
5) I used Deadly Gladiator Totem as it is the best available on current version of Enhsim. Obviously Furious will provide superior DPS.
6) I used a generic priority order: SW>MW5>ES_SS>SS>ES>LL>MT>LS. I am aware that there are different opinions on ideal priority list, but for the puproses of this I am sure we can agree tha this priority order will suffice.
7) I used a generic spec 16/55/0- as above.
8) I am fully raid buffed- because if you aren't, then this list probably has little relevance to you in the first place.

I managed to achieve a report of 7121dps with the following:

Rawr sheet: http://uploading.com/files/V8LJMJL1/...50709.xml.html

Config

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         60
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.7
oh_speed                        2.7
mh_dps                          188.1
oh_dps                          178.9
mh_crit                         35.23
oh_crit                         35.23
mh_hit                          12.66
oh_hit                          12.66
mh_expertise_rating             136
oh_expertise_rating             136
ap                              4430
melee_haste                     13.16
armor_penetration               2.44
str                             135
agi                             883
int                             541
spi                             155
spellpower                      1329
spell_crit                      27.16
spell_hit                       15.82
spell_haste                     10.13
max_mana                        12231
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        45931
trinket2                        45522

totem                           42606

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
I simmed Dark Matter and crudely simmed Comet’s (using elemental focus stone) and both came up less dps than the Mjolinir Runestone when used with Blood of the Old God. I did a quick sim replacing Blood with Dark Matter but it required a lot of gear swapping and hit gemming to maintain cap. The result was a dps loss. I am not convinced that these results are fully accurate though and would welcome comments.

This config serves as the baseline. If you are able to find a gear/gem/enchant combination that sims higher than this in the current version of enh sim, please post the paperdoll sheet and the config.
Furthermore, if you find errors in my own paperdoll, config or methodology please post as I welcome any suggestions. Tyvm in advance.

P.S I think the process would be made easier by an online paperdoll interface, but I was unable to locate one. Is someone able to suggest one?
#2256SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by paladyin View Post
- recreating the paperdoll functions of Rawr in jEnhSim - questionable investment of time
Yes a few of you seem intent on hammering that point and yet nobody can say why. We also have no intent of "recreating" Rawr in the sim, this seems to be some weird leap that everyone is making from my statement that we are "representing gear on a per slot basis."
#2257SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3snakeyez
Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
P.S I think the process would be made easier by an online paperdoll interface, but I was unable to locate one. Is someone able to suggest one?
chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner is what you are asking for? i use it for simming out my wish list gear granted i don't think it accounts for professions. (like skinning crit ect ect)
#2258SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
Ulduar BiS list
I have recently begun using RAWR as a means of generating stat pages for export into Enhsim to identify a final BiS list. I am of the understanding that many people on this forum do not see value in a BiS list due to a) availability of gear and b) relative stat weightings and their volatility based on gear combinations. It is precisely this volatility though that I am looking to address in defining a BiS set. I am approaching BiS set up currently, and am tired of simming individual pieces of gear/enchants/gems etc in search of the highest dps, whilst always knowning that there is likely a different combination available to me that could result in 50-100 more dps. With Ulduar drawing to a close, I think it would be valuable to develop a finalised BiS set that people can look to in their remaining weeks of raiding.
I don't see availability in gear as a reason. Sure, some folks might not get all the hard modes but a lot of people do, so it becomes simply a matter of picking from that gear. For me I think it's more a matter of simulation variance. If the difference between BiS and second BiS is 0.5 dps, and your simulation stddev is 5 dps, how do you figure out which would be better? We could use Rawr's approximations as a deterministic metric, but then the question becomes fairly trivial enough. Beyond that, 10 minutes is not necessarily a reasonable measure, as a lot of fights are not this long (Hodir hard of course comes to mind). I would tend to say 6 minutes might be more reasonable.

Beyond that, I would say you are restricting far too many variables for your test. It doesn't make any sense to pick Tauren for a couple reasons. First, you may not have freedom on your faction, depending on who you want to raid with. Second, and Orc would never ever reroll Tauren to squeeze out more dps, but a Tauren might reroll Orc. The hunter BiS list accounted for this by having a BiS alliance and horde version, though in theory you could have only one which showed the best race overall.

Also, things like rotation and talent spec should not be fixed, as they are practically free to change. If your spec and/or rotation are always optimal, let it be shown in the highest dps config.

Lastly, if you think there is merit to this project, you might want to start a new thread. I do plan to have an EnhSim Beta out probably tomorrow night that will include the items you mention, though it will also include the 3.2 changes mentioned so 3.1 results might be a little off.
#2259SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3clliche
Regarding genetic algorithms:

Levva, based off of your explanation of a genetic algorithm, wouldn't the same problems that surface with EP occur? You give the specific example of swapping out an ap gem for a stamina gem and having the algorithm realize that AP is more beneficial. However, how does an algorithm deal with hit and its various soft caps? More importantly, can an algorithm like that deal with fluctuating values? x haste for instance might seem better than ap at one point in the "breeding" but at another point it may indeed be worse. Basically, if a genetic algorithm consistently chooses the most sucessful stats and combines them with other combinations of the most sucessful stats, does it realize that stacking for a certain stat may not be beneficial due to fluctuating values? I feel like its a distinct possibility that an algorithm like this will try to stack certain stats because the initial batches will all produce combinations where a certain stat is the best (hit for example). This ignores that a mix of stats is usually better. I guess this depends on how the algorithm chooses which chromosomes are the most fit within each batch however.
#2260SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by clliche View Post
Regarding genetic algorithms:

Levva, based off of your explanation of a genetic algorithm, wouldn't the same problems that surface with EP occur? You give the specific example of swapping out an ap gem for a stamina gem and having the algorithm realize that AP is more beneficial. However, how does an algorithm deal with hit and its various soft caps? More importantly, can an algorithm like that deal with fluctuating values? x haste for instance might seem better than ap at one point in the "breeding" but at another point it may indeed be worse. Basically, if a genetic algorithm consistently chooses the most sucessful stats and combines them with other combinations of the most sucessful stats, does it realize that stacking for a certain stat may not be beneficial due to fluctuating values? I feel like its a distinct possibility that an algorithm like this will try to stack certain stats because the initial batches will all produce combinations where a certain stat is the best (hit for example). This ignores that a mix of stats is usually better. I guess this depends on how the algorithm chooses which chromosomes are the most fit within each batch however.
Ideally the breeding/mutation algorithm wouldn't be skewed toward particular stats, or make any EP-like inferences. Rather the offspring/mutations would be some random combination of the ancestors and have its performance independently evaluated. If the evaluation ranks it high, the only special treatment is that it's less likely to get culled. Offspring and mutations that perform poorly for any reason (e.g. they put too many hit gems in) will get culled because they perform poorly, not as a direct result of any rating cap issues.

One can certainly imagine a strain that survives several generations even with an excess of expertise/hit rating, on sheer virtue of its otherwise superior gear. However the idea behind GA is that this strain should eventually produce offspring or mutations that replace some of that expertise/hit with a better stat, and as a result will perform even better.
#2261SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Schwolop
Generally speaking, all optimisations can be thought of as the minimisation of some function, by variation of the parameters. The issue with GAs and many other techniques is that the optimisation can be caught in a local minima. GAs try to avoid this by peturbing each generation with some random genes. However, the larger the "valleys" due to local minima, the larger the random peturbations need to be to escape them. As these random peturbations increase, the time taken to compute a solution increases.

There are solutions to this too, including reducing the peturbation size over time, etc, but AFAIK there's no general method. Each problem needs to have a highly tuned GA associated with it. I'm sure this is possible for jEnhSim to achieve, but it's certainly non-trivial, and I'd agree that this should probably be the last item on the to do list.
#2262SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
bobxii
Originally Posted by Schwolop View Post
Generally speaking, all optimisations can be thought of as the minimisation of some function, by variation of the parameters. The issue with GAs and many other techniques is that the optimisation can be caught in a local minima. GAs try to avoid this by peturbing each generation with some random genes. However, the larger the "valleys" due to local minima, the larger the random peturbations need to be to escape them. As these random peturbations increase, the time taken to compute a solution increases.

Welcome to protein crystallography . When it gets to the computational power requirements that GA requires, it may become simpler (relatively) to use it to come up with the most accurate closed-form solution possible instead of directly solving for the optimum condition; even if it is a 14-dimensional set (rank 14+ tensor, IIRC), the benefit of being able to explicitly solve for the best solution (using a closed-form equation) likely outweighs the trouble to get to it numerically.

Actually on that note, a few of the stats (dimensions) can be trivialized with statistical approximations to reduce the dimensionality (AP and ArP, for example) of the overall equation. Several require simulation to arrive at an accurate model (haste, crit, hit, 4pc t8, weapon speeds, most procs... that's it(?!))

Of course, a simpler way would be to put together the set of all possible gear combinations (within a certain gear range and that meet certain criteria (hit and exp capped), to be sure), and sim them all. It would be (ridiculously) computationally expensive, but isn't terribly difficult to code for, and it only needs doing once. Then simply host it on a server where the Rawr package can make direct comparisons between gear pieces.

Last edited by bobxii : 07/14/09 at 9:50 PM.
#2263SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
If the difference between BiS and second BiS is 0.5 dps, and your simulation stddev is 5 dps, how do you figure out which would be better?
The sim will offer a standard deviation of approx 5 dps per simulation, so perhaps our results should be lists in ranges rather than absolute figures i.e 7112-7117 dps depending on the highest and lowest dps that you observe after running multiple simulations. Perhaps then, new data must demonstrate a dps increase in the range of 3-5 dps so as to accommodate this deviation, as well as recognise only actual increases, not statistical variances.

Beyond that, 10 minutes is not necessarily a reasonable measure, as a lot of fights are not this long (Hodir hard of course comes to mind). I would tend to say 6 minutes might be more reasonable.
I chose 10mins since it is the length of XT-002 hard mode, which I feel is the best available dps environment for testing the dps potential of an enh shaman in Ulduar (that and perhaps Algalon). Iron Council is 'similar' depending on your strat. If this list is maintained going forward, perhaps this duration can be revised in light of the nature/duration of 3.2 encounters. Either way, I think a longer time range will provide more accurate data than a shorter range when looking for dps potential.

It doesn't make any sense to pick Tauren for a couple reasons. First, you may not have freedom on your faction, depending on who you want to raid with. Second, and Orc would never ever reroll Tauren to squeeze out more dps, but a Tauren might reroll Orc. The hunter BiS list accounted for this by having a BiS alliance and horde version, though in theory you could have only one which showed the best race overall.
I think we can generally assume that at this stage of an expansion, it would be highly unlikely that anyone interested in these lists would have the time or inclination to abandon their Ulduar geared character so as to re-roll a race with superior racials. I do not think it would be appropriate to generate a list for the 1% of players who might be willing to do this. This list must be broadly practical in its application.

Since this is a gear analysis and not a gear + race analysis, I think it would be appropriate to remove racials as a variable from the equation. Anything that other races are able to achieve over the listed Tauren results is a bonus for them.

Finally, my gut feeling is that racials will not affect gearing choices as much as we might expect. In the optimal set up that I was able to discover, expertise was uncapped and hit was well over cap. Efforts to cap expertise and dump hit in favour of crit resulted in a dps loss. My point is that expertise and hit values are highly dynamic, and I do not expect the Draenei or Orc racials to greatly affect the gearing results (orcs/trolls obviously would achieve higher dps due to Command, Zerker etc). Still, it would make sense for people to share any results they find that disprove this hypothesis.

Also, things like rotation and talent spec should not be fixed, as they are practically free to change. If your spec and/or rotation are always optimal, let it be shown in the highest dps config.
I think this is completely correct. I am tempted to say that the same be should of professions, but again in the interests of practicality I think we can assume that with the coming homogenisaiton of professions (JC nerf) it is unlikely that someone would spend 3-6k gold on a profession change that would net a 5dps increase.

Lastly, if you think there is merit to this project, you might want to start a new thread.
I will do just that so long as I meet with no objections from the mods.

I do plan to have an EnhSim Beta out probably tomorrow night that will include the items you mention, though it will also include the 3.2 changes mentioned so 3.1 results might be a little off.
Since mana is not simmed the SR change should not affect results. We will likely see people putting more points into reverb though in 3.2 as mana will be less of an issue, but the sim would support both current and future talents specs in line with this.
#2264SourcePosted onundefinedVespasian
I have completed the first part of this project and am keen for some feedback. I will post what I have done here for discussion and feedback, and if the feedback is generally positive I will then open a new thread in the Shaman forum. Since this project is about finding the single highest dps set up as indicated through Enhsim, I am sure that the information is still relevant to this thread. The next two posts are as they would appear in a new thread.

Edit: I have started a new thread to house this discussion. It can be found at [Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion

The following posts/responses relate to posts that have been moved to the above link.

Last edited by Vespasian : Yesterday at 12:29 PM.
#2265SourcePosted onundefinedVespasian
Post removed.

Last edited by Vespasian : Yesterday at 12:28 PM.
#2266SourcePosted onundefinedVespasian
Post removed.

Last edited by Vespasian : Yesterday at 12:27 PM.
#2267SourcePosted onundefinedbobxii
I simmed ~7239 with MT above LL, by the way.
#2268SourcePosted onundefinedVespasian
Originally Posted by bobxii View Post
I simmed ~7239 with MT above LL, by the way.
I get roughly 7141. Can you please PM me your config? I am eager to avoid back and forth discussions on this thread as I would prefer to save them for the actual thread (if and when it is formed).
#2269SourcePosted onundefinedPeterle
Maybe your simulation time is a little bit to low (even if you're simulating 10 times). I would prefer a simulation time of 100000 hours.
#2270SourcePosted onundefinedSylvand
I'm happy to announce EnhSim v1.8.0 test release is available for download.

I've documented the changes as best I can, so even if you don't run the build please take a look and see if there's anything off. For now I expect the proc chance on the trinkets and totems may be off, but I have limited data so far. If folks have access to these items on PTR and can get some more numbers it would be much appreciated.

I've also done some basic sanity checks on pretty much all the items, and things seem to be consistent with what you would expect from the rest of the simulator. If anyone can take time to play with it and let me know how it goes that of course is also appreciated.

Again feel free to PM me or reply here. I'll also be watching the 3.2 thread for relevant updates.

EnhSim - Release: v1.8.0

p.s. I've also attempted to fix the Mac binary in there (though it doesn't have my changes, not sure what version it is really) so if there are any Mac folks that can try it out, let me know.
#2271SourcePosted onundefinedMjoedvitnir
my BiS equip reaches 7186-7187 dps. if you use the pvp totems it might be 10dps higher - i dont use it. also i use tuskarr's vitality (/cat's swiftness) since it's better than anything else in reality imo, if you want best possible dps in sim change it - i go for best possible dps ingame.

i've used v1.8.0 since comet's trail isnt implemented in 1.0.7.3b. in 1.0.7.3b i get 7036 without the procc from comet's trail.
so here it is:

rawr xml
enhsim cfg

//edit i removed the comet's trail and tested if 1.0.7.3b and 1.0.8 are showing the same results, they do.

Last edited by Mjoedvitnir : Yesterday at 8:07 AM.
#2272SourcePosted onundefinedDeathicle
@Vespsian: Is there any particular reason you elected to use Relentless Assault and Haste potion over Endless Rage and potion of speed?
#2273SourcePosted onundefinedErysha
I noticed that you're using 2 Balanced Twilight Opals. Wouldn't the BiS be better served by using Enchanted Tear (+6 to all Stats)?
#2274SourcePosted onundefinedVespasian
Peterle, I ran the sim using 10000 hour simulations and the results were identical. If there is a reason why you think the extende simulation hours would provide different/more accurate data, can you please post at [Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion

Mjoed, thanks for this. I took your work and expanded upon it by tyding up the enchants and talent spec. I was able to achieve roughly 7280 dps.

Deathicle, that was just me being bad. FixT.
#2275SourcePosted onundefinedsuicidalkatt
I'm seeing posts of EnhSim Version 1.8.0

where is this downloadable from?

I've only see 1.7 available on any major links =/
#2276SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by suicidalkatt View Post
I'm seeing posts of EnhSim Version 1.8.0

where is this downloadable from?

I've only see 1.7 available on any major links =/
It's not the default release, but you should see it on the list. If you want the direct link you can find it above.
#2277SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3suicidalkatt
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
It's not the default release, but you should see it on the list. If you want the direct link you can find it above.
You mean the 91 other pages? I doubt I'll find a link even with the search. I've been to the site and the downloads is only 1.7.

WTB Pruning. =/

Current History of downloads have been from:

EnhSim: Downloads
Downloads - enhsim - Google Code

Think you could link me to a download?
#2278SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
Page 91. Five posts prior your question :-)
EnhSim - Release: v1.8.0
#2279SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3suicidalkatt
Originally Posted by Peterle View Post
Page 91. Five posts prior your question :-)
EnhSim - Release: v1.8.0
* is blind *

Edit: Tyvm btw :P
#2280SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I'm happy to announce EnhSim v1.8.0 test release is available for download.

p.s. I've also attempted to fix the Mac binary in there (though it doesn't have my changes, not sure what version it is really) so if there are any Mac folks that can try it out, let me know.
The mac binary works on my PowerPC. Nice job
#2281SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
From the BiS discussion:

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen View Post
Using the gear profile in SimulationCraft I come out about 80dps shy of the values reported there.


(2) I've found that MW3 or MW4 is always a dps-loss for me, primarily because SimulationCraft will always reset the swing timers when inserting non-instant casts into the priority. What does EnhSim do with the swing timers in these cases?
Is someone able to shed some light on this?
#2282SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
From the BiS discussion:



Is someone able to shed some light on this?
Yes this appears to be a bug -- the only time the swing timer is reset for LB, CL and even LvB is when you have 0 stacks of MW. I have just checked the fix into codeplex.

I've run some quick 1000h tests on your BiS config, using the same rotation but toggling the last two:

MW3_CL + MW4_LB: 7194.84
MW3_CL: 7211.91
MW4_LB: 7228.14
neither: 7288.89

Thanks for the catch. I would venture a guess that MW4_X is not going to be in the rotation.
#2283SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Doesn't this go against testing earlier in the thread? I'm sure that it was confirmed by in game testing that MW4_LB didn't reset your swing timer.

Edit: See page 53 EnhSim, DPS simulator
#2284SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
The post explains that in-game testing demonstrates that the swing timer is not reset, however it is unclear on whether or not the sim models this correctly. Is anyone able to confirm?
#2285SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3dedmonwakeen
The DPS-report in the BiS thread shows a delta of 3% crit difference between SS/WF vs MH.

This tells me that EnhSim uses 3% crit-depression for MH and no crit-depression for specials?

SimulationCraft uses "3% + delta_level*0.6%" for crit-depression when delta_level>=3.

It also applies the crit-depression to specials in addition to MH/OH.

I'm ready to make the change to mirror EnhSim, I just need some confirmation that my understanding is correct.
#2286SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
Yes this appears to be a bug -- the only time the swing timer is reset for LB, CL and even LvB is when you have 0 stacks of MW. I have just checked the fix into codeplex.

I've run some quick 1000h tests on your BiS config, using the same rotation but toggling the last two:

MW3_CL + MW4_LB: 7194.84
MW3_CL: 7211.91
MW4_LB: 7228.14
neither: 7288.89

Thanks for the catch. I would venture a guess that MW4_X is not going to be in the rotation.

It's not a bug, that is how it should be modeled. Casting with any stacks of MW active changes the nature of casting any spell so that it doesn't reset the swing timer. If a cast time intersects a swing then that swing doesn't occur but the swing timer is not reset, provided there is at least 1 stack of MW active.
#2287SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
It's not a bug, that is how it should be modeled. Casting with any stacks of MW active changes the nature of casting any spell so that it doesn't reset the swing timer. If a cast time intersects a swing then that swing doesn't occur but the swing timer is not reset, provided there is at least 1 stack of MW active.
Hmm, ok so with 0 stacks is the only case LB and CL reset the swing timer? I can revert that part then and make sure it correctly clips.

And, not that it's super relevant but does LvB work the same way? I know MW doesn't affect it, but does it clip rather than reset when MW is up?
#2288SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
Hmm, ok so with 0 stacks is the only case LB and CL reset the swing timer? I can revert that part then and make sure it correctly clips.

And, not that it's super relevant but does LvB work the same way? I know MW doesn't affect it, but does it clip rather than reset when MW is up?

As far as I can tell every spell works that way when MW is active. I tested it with Hex back then and it also clipped instead of resetting, although that won't matter any more in 3.2 since there won't be any other spell to worry about except for Lava Burst.
#2289SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Ok it looks like the current implementation for casting with 1-4 MW stacks is that it will delay the swing timers by the cast time. I've double checked this with a combat log run, instrumented to show the cast time and MH swing time left when casting starts. It produced this sequence:

0h 0m 35.08s MH crit 3051.52
0h 0m 35.08s Maelstrom Weapon stacks (1)
0h 0m 35.27s OH hit 713.127
0h 0m 35.27s OH Flametongue hit 429.343
0h 0m 35.55s Magma totem hit 828.765
0h 0m 35.81s Spirit Wolf crit 1201.92
0h 0m 35.81s Spirit Wolf crit 1201.92
0h 0m 36.2s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 36.2s Casting started (126, 7) <- 1.26s to cast, 0.07s originally remaining on MH swing
0h 0m 36.77s Spirit Wolf hit 600.962
0h 0m 36.77s Spirit Wolf hit 600.962
0h 0m 37.25s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 37.46s Lightning Bolt hit 4231.89 <- LB cast 1.26s later as expected
0h 0m 37.51s Earth shock crit 6034.34
0h 0m 37.51s Elemental Focus procs
0h 0m 37.53s MH crit 3051.52 <- MH swing 0.07s seconds after

So it looks like there is a bug in this. I also noticed that chain lightning seems to be given a 1.5s base cast time, which should be 2.0s instead.

If there are no objections, I'll go ahead and fix these. In particular the MH swing would have reset at 36.27 without firing (similarly OH) and the CL base cast time will be 2 seconds.
#2290SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
Ok it looks like the current implementation for casting with 1-4 MW stacks is that it will delay the swing timers by the cast time. I've double checked this with a combat log run, instrumented to show the cast time and MH swing time left when casting starts. It produced this sequence:

0h 0m 35.08s MH crit 3051.52
0h 0m 35.08s Maelstrom Weapon stacks (1)
0h 0m 35.27s OH hit 713.127
0h 0m 35.27s OH Flametongue hit 429.343
0h 0m 35.55s Magma totem hit 828.765
0h 0m 35.81s Spirit Wolf crit 1201.92
0h 0m 35.81s Spirit Wolf crit 1201.92
0h 0m 36.2s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 36.2s Casting started (126, 7) <- 1.26s to cast, 0.07s originally remaining on MH swing
0h 0m 36.77s Spirit Wolf hit 600.962
0h 0m 36.77s Spirit Wolf hit 600.962
0h 0m 37.25s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 37.46s Lightning Bolt hit 4231.89 <- LB cast 1.26s later as expected
0h 0m 37.51s Earth shock crit 6034.34
0h 0m 37.51s Elemental Focus procs
0h 0m 37.53s MH crit 3051.52 <- MH swing 0.07s seconds after

So it looks like there is a bug in this. I also noticed that chain lightning seems to be given a 1.5s base cast time, which should be 2.0s instead.

If there are no objections, I'll go ahead and fix these. In particular the MH swing would have reset at 36.27 without firing (similarly OH) and the CL base cast time will be 2 seconds.
Good catches, really glad you are on top of it. I think the old model when Tukez was designing EnhSim was that it paused the swing timer during a cast. That was how the system was initially set up (at least that was how it appeared to work from testing on the closed beta). When they pulled Lava Burst from Maelstrom Weapon the mechanic appeared to have changed to it's current state, although it wasn't discovered till later.

Any idea on when you can have that ready for testing? You've got me very curious to see how the sim results will change once you get it working properly.
#2291SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Good catches, really glad you are on top of it. I think the old model when Tukez was designing EnhSim was that it paused the swing timer during a cast. That was how the system was initially set up (at least that was how it appeared to work from testing on the closed beta). When they pulled Lava Burst from Maelstrom Weapon the mechanic appeared to have changed to it's current state, although it wasn't discovered till later.

Any idea on when you can have that ready for testing? You've got me very curious to see how the sim results will change once you get it working properly.
I think I have got it working, but of course if folks can run some checks that's great. This release includes a combatlog build which I've already used to verify that the clipping should work.

EnhSim - Release: v1.8.1

Using the config currently in the BiS thread I'm getting 7401.05 which is actually a small increase over 1.8.0. It seems that out of the potential swings, 2.9% are getting clipped, but I guess the fact that the rest don't get delayed makes up for it (and the CL cast time).
#2292SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
I'll wait for some confirmation here before updating the BiS thread. Thanks Sylvand.
#2293SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
[Enhancement] 3.1 changes - new rules in place

In theory, a randomly timed cast should give the same dps with clipped or paused MW behavior in the sim.

However, clipping can be more streaky (lots of clipped swings in a row, or lots of well timed casts in a row).

Now that Enhsim models clipped swings, there are some interesting experiments that could be done by modifying the simulator.
  • What is the dps difference if you time the cast so it doesn't clip the swing?
  • What is the dps difference if you only use MW4_LB and MW3_LB when WF is on cooldown?
#2294SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Is it even possible to time casts so that they don't clip? I guess it could be done with synced weapons but is there even a mod that works to show the swing timer when you are dual wielding? Quartz, for example, will only show the swing timer when using a single weapon.
#2295SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Is it even possible to time casts so that they don't clip? I guess it could be done with synced weapons but is there even a mod that works to show the swing timer when you are dual wielding? Quartz, for example, will only show the swing timer when using a single weapon.
I don't attempt to time my casts because random casts are better than poorly timed casts.

When I've tried to time my casts against a training dummy I mistime about as often as I get it right. Perhaps someone with more skill/latency could do better.

LD50_abar is a mod that claims to handle dual wielding, however it looks to have problems modeling flurry (something causes its display to get out of sync when the combatlog says that it's still in sync). People would probably want to fix this mod before relying on it.
LD50_abar - Addons - Curse
#2296SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
[Enhancement] 3.1 changes - new rules in place

In theory, a randomly timed cast should give the same dps with clipped or paused MW behavior in the sim.

However, clipping can be more streaky (lots of clipped swings in a row, or lots of well timed casts in a row).

Now that Enhsim models clipped swings, there are some interesting experiments that could be done by modifying the simulator.
  • What is the dps difference if you time the cast so it doesn't clip the swing?
  • What is the dps difference if you only use MW4_LB and MW3_LB when WF is on cooldown?
Yeah I agree about the expected difference, both should effectively remove swings in equal proportion to the cast time. I might end up playing with clip avoidance just for a theoretical data point.

It has been pointed out that Comet's Trail incorrectly uses the tooltip's 612 haste proc instead of the 726 it actually gives (Comet's Trail - Spell - World of Warcraft). I've checked in the fix for this so it will be in the next release (or if you want to build it yourself).
#2297SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tronso
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I think I have got it working, but of course if folks can run some checks that's great. This release includes a combatlog build which I've already used to verify that the clipping should work.

EnhSim - Release: v1.8.1

Using the config currently in the BiS thread I'm getting 7401.05 which is actually a small increase over 1.8.0. It seems that out of the potential swings, 2.9% are getting clipped, but I guess the fact that the rest don't get delayed makes up for it (and the CL cast time).
The combatlog genorated by enhsim 1.8.1 seems to be ignoring some GCDs

0h 0m 0s Haste Potion used
0h 0m 0s Spirit Wolves casted
0h 0m 0s MH SS hit 734.985
0h 0m 0s Fury of the Five Flights stacks (1)
0h 0m 0s Totem of Dueling procs
0h 0m 0s OH SS hit 342.386
0h 0m 0s OH Flametongue hit 299.678
0h 0m 0s Fury of the Five Flights stacks (2)
0h 0m 0s Bloodlust gained

Stormstrike,Bloodlust and Spirit Wolves are casted the same time, It could it be assuming another shaman in raid is casting blood lust
#2298SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Spaceinvader
I played around with EnhSim 1.8.1 and found a bug. When simming the T9 4-piece bonus, the simulator looks to be adding 25% damage to lightning bolt, chain lightning, and lava burst (as well as to shocks). Looking at my sim results, all of those abilities had a 25% increase in damage which led to an enormous dps increase.

I haven't done any programming in years and I am not familiar with the EnhSim codebase, but I was bored and took a quick look at the source code on codeplex and I think I found the problem. All of the shocks, lightning bolt, chain lightning, and lava burst appear to use "shock_damage_multiplier" as a component in calculating damage (in skills.cpp). That is because "shock_damage_multiplier" is the variable used to apply damage from the Concussion talent (which does affect all those abilities) -- the variable name is misleading since it affects more than just shocks. The 4-piece bonus is coded as: "shock_damage_multiplier_ *= 1.25f" (in enhsimconfig.cpp) which inadvertently affects all those skills.
#2299SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Sylvand
Originally Posted by Tronso View Post
The combatlog genorated by enhsim 1.8.1 seems to be ignoring some GCDs

0h 0m 0s Haste Potion used
0h 0m 0s Spirit Wolves casted
0h 0m 0s MH SS hit 734.985
0h 0m 0s Fury of the Five Flights stacks (1)
0h 0m 0s Totem of Dueling procs
0h 0m 0s OH SS hit 342.386
0h 0m 0s OH Flametongue hit 299.678
0h 0m 0s Fury of the Five Flights stacks (2)
0h 0m 0s Bloodlust gained

Stormstrike,Bloodlust and Spirit Wolves are casted the same time, It could it be assuming another shaman in raid is casting blood lust
I'll take a look at this tonight. I'm really not sure if it's good to assume someone else casts it; maybe it should be configurable?

Originally Posted by Spaceinvader
All of the shocks, lightning bolt, chain lightning, and lava burst appear to use "shock_damage_multiplier" as a component in calculating damage (in skills.cpp). That is because "shock_damage_multiplier" is the variable used to apply damage from the Concussion talent (which does affect all those abilities) -- the variable name is misleading since it affects more than just shocks. The 4-piece bonus is coded as: "shock_damage_multiplier_ *= 1.25f" (in enhsimconfig.cpp) which inadvertently affects all those skills.
You're probably right. I'll take a look at this tonight as well.

edit:
The T9 set bonus should now only include shocks, but it still currently stacks multiplicatively with concussion where applicable (I can't check myself if this is right). Wolves will also trigger the GCD, though I've left bloodlust as-is for now. If we had the source for the GUI (I don't think we do) I would feel better about adding some more config around bloodlust (maybe having it in the priority rotation) but for now I'll just let it assume someone else casts it immediately after the first skill (generally wolves).

I also found a bug with the change I made for clipping swings, though you'd only hit it when casting without maelstrom (i.e. the swing timer resets). I hit it while testing the numbers on lava burst when it would get cast without maelstrom.

I've gone ahead and put this along with the comet's trail fix into v1.8.2:

EnhSim - Release: v1.8.2

Last edited by Sylvand : 07/21/09 at 4:01 AM.
#2300SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
Exact Expertise Rating for cap?

I got some new gear today that meant taking gear off with Expertise Rating on so I fell below cap. I had been at 140 Expertise Rating and I dropped to 104. I thought I could just slap two 16 Expertise Rating gems into my gear and still be on/over cap. I tested it on EhnSim with 3/3 UR and 136 Expertise Rating and it said I was over cap. When I gemmed it that way in game it had me at 25 Expertise. I messed with my gems to where I could get to 139 Rating and was still at 25 Expertise.

I know that Expertise Rating does give a point by point benefit where we once didn't think it did so maybe EhnSim was right. However the game telling me I was below cap made me want to make sure so I figured someone on EJ would know the exact rating I need to hit the Expertise cap (even if the game says I am not).

Of course I looked around a bit before posting here but I was unable to find a definite answer. Can someone please tell me how much Expertise Rating I need exactly to hit Expertise cap (even if the game says I'm at 25 Expertise and not 26)?

Thanks.
#2301SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
Answered my own question. The EP value for Expertise (not Rating, Expertise) on EhnSim was set to 4, so anything over 107 was saying I was over cap. When I set the EP to 0 I wasn't wasn't getting the overcap message until 141, which would be correct as I understood it previously.
#2302SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rani
Originally Posted by Brynmor View Post
I got some new gear today that meant taking gear off with Expertise Rating on so I fell below cap. I had been at 140 Expertise Rating and I dropped to 104. I thought I could just slap two 16 Expertise Rating gems into my gear and still be on/over cap. I tested it on EhnSim with 3/3 UR and 136 Expertise Rating and it said I was over cap. When I gemmed it that way in game it had me at 25 Expertise. I messed with my gems to where I could get to 139 Rating and was still at 25 Expertise.

I know that Expertise Rating does give a point by point benefit where we once didn't think it did so maybe EhnSim was right. However the game telling me I was below cap made me want to make sure so I figured someone on EJ would know the exact rating I need to hit the Expertise cap (even if the game says I am not).

Of course I looked around a bit before posting here but I was unable to find a definite answer. Can someone please tell me how much Expertise Rating I need exactly to hit Expertise cap (even if the game says I'm at 25 Expertise and not 26)?

Thanks.
I remember wondering too about the 139 exp issue, I found a post that proves that expertise actually does count per point.

"Previous thinking was that expertise only worked in "chunks", that values are rounded down to whole integers. This has recently been disproved and expertise, despite what the UI might lead you to believe, does not drop fractional points. That is, if you have rating sufficient to give you 25.5 expertise rating, you actually benefit from all 25.5 points of it, not only 25 as has previously been conjectured." - From the Enhancement TTT.

Here is the post that proves it: Retesting hit table assumptions
#2303SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
You're right. The sim just tells you that you will be over the cap if it adds the 4 expertise (~32.79 rating). This only affects EP calculation.
#2304SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Brynmor View Post
Can someone please tell me how much Expertise Rating I need exactly to hit Expertise cap (even if the game says I'm at 25 Expertise and not 26)?
If only that question was conveniently answered in an article about enhancement shaman.
Shaman: Enhancement
#2305SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mengus
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
If only that question was conveniently answered in an article about enhancement shaman.
Shaman: Enhancement
Well, in his defense the TTT thread doesn't blatantly spell out the exact number needed assuming 3/3 unleashed rage. Though with the conversion factor provided it's not really a stretch to figure it out with some simple division (140 ER = 17 expertise).
#2306SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
Wolves will also trigger the GCD
Many thanks for your work on the Sim. Has anyone got any figures yet from the PTR on the effect of Expertise on the wolves? I know that GC said that they would now be affected by a proportion of your expertise but it wasn't clear how this was implemented. Obviously this would influence the sim data as currently it assumes wolves suffer 6.5% dodge.

From the PTR
Originally Posted by Patch 3.2 Patch Notes
All pets now receive 40% of their master's resilience and 100% of their master's spell penetration. In addition, if a player is at their appropriate spell hit chance or hit chance maximum, their pet will be at the maximum for spell hit chance, hit chance, and expertise. If they are below the maximum, their pet will be proportionately below those maximums.
This suggests a fairly substantial boost for Feral Spirit DPS if they get our expertise.
#2307SourcePosted onundefinedErysha
I'm having a problem with EnhSim 1.8.0 and later. Specifically, none of the items that were added in 1.8.0 show up in either the gui or the config. I've deleted every old installation, redownloaded multiple times, and re-extracted each download a few times. In addition, the readme says it's version 1.7.0 but when I run the sim it says 1.8.0-2 at the top. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
#2308SourcePosted onundefinedSylvand
Originally Posted by Erysha View Post
I'm having a problem with EnhSim 1.8.0 and later. Specifically, none of the items that were added in 1.8.0 show up in either the gui or the config. I've deleted every old installation, redownloaded multiple times, and re-extracted each download a few times. In addition, the readme says it's version 1.7.0 but when I run the sim it says 1.8.0-2 at the top. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
I probably should have mentioned it explicitly in the release note, but the GUI and config file were not modified. You'll have to manually input the strings into the text box for the items and set bonuses.
#2309SourcePosted onundefinedsirtyface
Not sure if this is the case with later versions (ie. 1.8.0+), but in V1.7.0.3b, I was getting an interested bug where it seems that the 2pc set bonus for Worldbreaker Battlegear will be counted twice if you select both the 2pc and the 4pc bonus in the Procs and Stuff tab.

I just tested this on 1.8.0, and the same thing occurs. Here is the data I obtained:

1.7.0.3b
Both 2pc and 4pc: 6701.51 dps 488.31 SS dps.
Only 4pc: 6579.24 dps, 430.30 SS dps.
No bonuses: 6381.80 dps, 381.40 SS dps.
1.8.0
Both 2pc and 4pc: 6771.76 dps, 495.24 SS dps.
Only 4pc: 6648.71 dps, 436.29 SS dps.
No bonuses: 6425.95 dps, 385.29 SS dps.
#2310SourcePosted onundefinedFalcon213
It's not a bug, 4pc always assumes that you also have 2pc. (Because, well, you do.)
#2311SourcePosted onundefinedsirtyface
I know, I just kinda figured that there might be a check in there somehow making sure that it wouldn't be counted twice. Either way, I'll use only the 4pc thing for simming.
#2312SourcePosted onundefinedLevva
Sylvand could you add in a test to disable the 2 piece bonus if someone selects 4 and two, in order to save this sort of confusion. It's becoming an FAQ.

I'll update the readme accordingly although that's of limited value as no-one ever reads it.
#2313SourcePosted onundefinedFalcon213
I have another request. Could we possibly get an option to use the 3.1 ruleset (by default off for future-proofing). I know I could just sim without mana, but that would skew my results when playing with talent specs or several leather pieces.
#2326SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
Just wondering when we might expect an update that includes the changes to Spirit Wolves' expertise?
Probably about the time someone actually tests and defines exactly how the wolves get expertise from our stats.

Originally Posted by Patchnotes
All pets now receive 40% of their master's resilience and 100% of their master's spell penetration. In addition, if a player is at their appropriate spell hit chance or hit chance maximum, their pet will be at the maximum for spell hit chance, hit chance, and expertise. If they are below the maximum, their pet will be proportionately below those maximums.
The question is which hit chance? We should all be capped for spells but as Dual Wielders we are still uncapped for white attacks. Does that mean that our wolves are also uncapped for melee attacks or are they capped because we have capped our specials and would be capped if we were using a single weapon? I haven't seen any testing to date to define exactly how the system works for us and that is what really needs to be done before the sim can be updated.
#2327SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Neon_Knightmare
I was just tinkering with this on live, and it does appear that our spirit wolves' hit and expertise scale in proportion to where our character stands with relation to the melee special hit cap. I did a few dummy tests -- with an admittedly small sample size -- and determined the following:

- 1. They do not inherit the 6% melee hit from Dual Wield Specialization. At 114 hit rating, which would put them above 9% melee hit with the talent if they were indeed affected, Recount recorded misses.

- 2. They do not inherit the character's expertise. With 31 expertise skill (courtesy of the changes to the orc racial) and the same 114 hit rating, Recount also recorded dodges.

- 3. They inherit melee hit directly. At 267 hit rating, Recount recorded no misses over several attempts (~80 attacks on average).

- 4. Their expertise is based on the player's melee hit (rather than expertise) rating. At 267 hit rating, with 9/9 expertise, Recount recorded no dodges over several attempts. (Same trials as #3.)

Based on this data, it looks like they are (still) treated as a physical DPS class pet, and scale with melee hit rating up to 8%, as has been previously confirmed. This amount of hit also gives them 6.5% worth of dodge negation. I'd hardly call my hour or so of tests thorough enough to be truly conclusive, but it looks promising -- looks like we don't have to lose sleep over our pets needing 446 (or more) hit rating to be expertise-capped.

Edit: Corrected "spell" hit cap to "melee special." Doh.
#2328SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Zensai
I've seen a significant amount of DPS increase from the spirit wolves last night while raiding. And every fight I was alot higher DPS wise then normally. I was running with my current gear in armory except for my helm. Since they fixed Boundless Gaze, I was running with that, which put me at ~480 hit. Its also worth mentioning, that Shamans can now Bloodlust while Sated. So if you have another shaman to coordinate with you can always have them lust for your 2nd cast of wolves.

I'm curious if anyone experienced a huge DPS bump? It feels like the puppies are doing a considerable more dmg. Because of UI problems, I didn't get to dig through recount. But I'll post my results after digging through WOL/WWS.

Ulduar 25m. Only thing left are Algalon, General, and Yogg. The rest were killed with all hardmodes. Below are the stats on my wolves.

Spirit Wolf
Dmg Done: 873999
Hits: 861
Avg Hit: 651
Crit Hits: 131
Avg Crit Hit: 1300
Blocks: 6
Block Avg: 570.2
Glances: 286
Glance Avg: 488.1
Absorbs: 452
Misses: 2
Parrys: 4

Last edited by Zensai : 08/05/09 at 10:24 AM.
#2329SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3dedmonwakeen
We found the following simple formula to be reasonably accurate (driven by hunter pet testing).

struct pet_t : public player_t
{
  std::string full_name_str;
  player_t* owner;
  pet_t* next_pet;

  <snip> 

  virtual double composite_attack_expertise()
  {
    if ( sim -> P320 )
      return owner -> composite_attack_hit() * 6.5 / 8.0;
    else
      return player_t::composite_attack_expertise();
  }
}
#2330SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Zensai View Post
I was running with my current gear in armory except for my helm. Since they fixed Boundless Gaze, I was running with that, which put me at ~480 hit.
The Armory hasn't been updated yet, what are the new stats on Boundless Gaze?
#2331SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zensai
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
The Armory hasn't been updated yet, what are the new stats on Boundless Gaze?
1100 Armor
70 AGI
100 STA
68 INT
Meta
Blue
66 HIT
224 AP
69 CRIT
#2332SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
I'll try to get these in this week if not tonight:

- wolf expertise changes
- new on-use trinket updates
- checking for set bonus duplicates

PM me if I'm missing anything.
#2333SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stelmaria
I have recently changed my off-spec from Elemental to Enhancement and been using Rawr in conjunction with Enhsim quite a lot. Since yesterday however I have begun to see (very small but consistently) negative values for Mana and Spirit. If I understood the EP-Help on the Enhsim-Homepage correctly, the simulator calculates a baseline of DPS, adds the amount specified in the EP-Tab to one stat and then calculates the new DPS. But how can more Mana or more Spirit lower my DPS on its own?

Another thing I was wondering about is why Enhsim gives me the highest DPS with 32AP gems. Being expertise-capped and close to the white hit-cap the AP-Gems get the highest EP-rating, yet I seem to remember that gemming AP was considered a bad choice for Enhancer, but I'm not sure, where i read that.
#2334SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nevets_69
Originally Posted by Stelmaria View Post
... yet I seem to remember that gemming AP was considered a bad choice for Enhancer, but I'm not sure, where i read that.
You're likely thinking of the Burning Crusade days when shamans still got 2 AP per 1 Strength, so gemming for AP was always worse than gemming for strength. Since 3.0 we get 1 AP per 1 strength and 1 agi, and as a result of us doing significantly more magic damage, AP is always better than strength, and nearly always better than agility.
#2335SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kevinck
Who (if anyone) is watching the compatability between Rawr's output and Enhsim's input? Just wondering if it's the Rawr people, or the Enhsim people, or if those two groups are now one in the same.

One of the reasons I ask is because of the new orc racial to get expertise from fist weapons. Rawr now correctly internally adds this expertise if you use a fist weapon. When you export stats to enhsim config file, Rawr sets weapon type in the config file to '-'. The only options are '-' and 'axe'. And for expertise it outputs the real lower value, not the one increased by 5 for the racial. So when enhsim imports it does not see 'axe' and therefore does not add the extra expertise. So neither application is technically doing anything wrong. It's just something lost in the collaboration of what that config file should look like.

I guess ideally it would require a new entry for that field in Enhsim. But then that means a change to the gui. And I believe this thread mentions you don't have the source for the gui and are working on a brand new one that isn't done yet.

Luckily it's an easy work around for now to just manually change the weapon type to 'axe' after importing a config file.
#2336SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
kaoticz
I've heard that the Totem of Electrifying Wind may have had a 20 second cooldown added to it during the PTR. Can anyone confirm this yes or no? If it does, it will need to be changed in the sim.

It would be nice to know ahead of time if we'd be wasting emblems of triumph to buy this since it's better (with no cooldown) than the Enhance version, Totem of Quaking Earth.

I don't claim to be a math wizard and I'm completely unsure as to the proper way to model an estimation of the totems worth should it have a 20 second cooldown, but my assumption would be:

12 sec uptime / 20 sec cooldown = 60% uptime assuming a lightning bolt lands right when the 20 second cooldown ends and that the 70% proc chance occurs, meaning ~120 constant haste value from the totem.

Unless you can obtain a value for haste below 1.7, it would still be slightly better than the Enhance totem.

Please correct my math/assumptions if I am wrong

Last edited by kaoticz : 08/06/09 at 12:11 PM. Reason: jonnaei mentioned proc chance as well, now included, oops!
#2337SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jonnaei
That 60% uptime is also assuming a 100% proc rate outside of the ICD, which is not the case. Someone on Wowhead is saying 70% proc rate, though I'm not sure where they got that.
#2338SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
Originally Posted by jonnaei View Post
That 60% uptime is also assuming a 100% proc rate outside of the ICD, which is not the case. Someone on Wowhead is saying 70% proc rate, though I'm not sure where they got that.
By clicking on the effect listed on WoW Head, it quite clearly states it has a 70% proc chance. Now the only question is what is the ICD - if any.
#2339SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
Small request Sylvand- when you do your next update, are you able to enable item ID numbers for trinkets and totems? It will certainly make RAWR exporting much simpler, as RAWR currently copies over item IDs and we are forced to continuously re-type the names of totems and trinkets.
#2340SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3cryolithic
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
If you have access to the source can you zip that up and post it somewhere. I can then add it to the EnhSim website and update it for v1.8.2.
I've got the disassembled code, but it needs some cleanup before it will compile. Not sure how long it would take me to go through (lots of crap calls that need to be fixed) as I don't have a lot of time, but I can make what is here available if you want.
#2341SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by kevinck View Post
Who (if anyone) is watching the compatability between Rawr's output and Enhsim's input? Just wondering if it's the Rawr people, or the Enhsim people, or if those two groups are now one in the same.

One of the reasons I ask is because of the new orc racial to get expertise from fist weapons. Rawr now correctly internally adds this expertise if you use a fist weapon. When you export stats to enhsim config file, Rawr sets weapon type in the config file to '-'. The only options are '-' and 'axe'. And for expertise it outputs the real lower value, not the one increased by 5 for the racial. So when enhsim imports it does not see 'axe' and therefore does not add the extra expertise. So neither application is technically doing anything wrong. It's just something lost in the collaboration of what that config file should look like.

I guess ideally it would require a new entry for that field in Enhsim. But then that means a change to the gui. And I believe this thread mentions you don't have the source for the gui and are working on a brand new one that isn't done yet.

Luckily it's an easy work around for now to just manually change the weapon type to 'axe' after importing a config file.
<----(Levva) = Rawr people, well as far as Enhancement Shaman module is concerned.

AH thanks I forgot to update the export to Enhsim. Fixed now for next version. You are right however that in the GUI it won't update the drop down correctly. Cryolithic if you can PM me a zip file or something so I can post it on the EnhSim website so we can update it. I understand it may require some tiding up.

Syvland I take it that the config imports in enhsim now recognises "fist" as a valid choice? Or it will with v1.8.3?


Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
Small request Sylvand- when you do your next update, are you able to enable item ID numbers for trinkets and totems? It will certainly make RAWR exporting much simpler, as RAWR currently copies over item IDs and we are forced to continuously re-type the names of totems and trinkets.
No Vespasian this is ALREADY in EnhSim if you are retyping names in the config file you are doing it wrong. Tukez specifically added this in v1.6.something. So that new trinkets etc didn't depend on new versions of Rawr/ShockAndAwe to work. All that was needed was a new EnhSim. This decoupled the development cycle so that only the sim needed to be updated to use the new item ids.

What I will do however is in the GUI if we get the source working is to display the TEXT rather then the IDs. However behind the scenes in the actual config file the IDs are what you want to have.

Last edited by Levva : 08/07/09 at 5:21 AM.
#2342SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raiix - Myla
There are 3 things that I"m concerned about:

1. Please don"t forget the changes to the troll racial (berserk now always 20% haste, no scaling with health anymore) for the next update of the simulator.

2. Can someone already figure out how the new totems (melee and elemental) perform compared to dueling, hex, gladiator"s?

3. With the new totem bar I don"t see my spirit wolfs' control bar anymore (standard ui). Does someone have the same problem? Is there a hotkey for activating sprint?
#2343SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Glayde
I've used the fluidframes mod to move the new totem bar from where it is (right on top of my pet bars).

FluidFrames : WoWInterface Downloads : Miscellaneous

Basically you mouse over whatever frame you want to move, and toggle it movable/locked with a key you define (I use * on the numpad).

Just make sure you select the entire frame, and not just a child object or you'll do something like move only the pullup arrow from the bar which will break it. (If you do mess up just delete the account/server/char/saved variable/fluidframes.lua file and start over).
#2344SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3cryolithic
I've probably missed it in the thread here, but are the EP values from enhsim completely out to lunch? I'm getting values like 2.47 for Int, which seems outrageous. I'm not wearing leather and don't have mana issues either. Is it weighting the crit from int as Crit rather than just Spell Crit?
#2345SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by cryolithic View Post
I've probably missed it in the thread here, but are the EP values from enhsim completely out to lunch? I'm getting values like 2.47 for Int, which seems outrageous. I'm not wearing leather and don't have mana issues either. Is it weighting the crit from int as Crit rather than just Spell Crit?
Generally they seem normal to me. If you look at the stats from a normal run (they aren't shown for EP calcs) it may tell you why int is so high. If it's not obvious go ahead and post your config/results in this thread so folks can take a look. Potentially it could be something like forgetting to put shamanistic rage in the rotation/etc.
#2346SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3cryolithic
ahh this might be it:
Out of mana time 1.36%

Funny thing though, is I'm never out of mana on fights, though I imagine this is more to me failing at my rotation than anything else...
#2347SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3cryolithic
I guess this leads to the next question...if I'm actually running into oom issues on one or two fights, is it really worth it to change out an AP gem for Int? My gut instinct is no, as most fights have too much down time for it to really matter overall.
#2348SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xoya
Just turn off mana simulation. Easiest way to get around that.
#2349SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Falcon213
Originally Posted by cryolithic View Post
I guess this leads to the next question...if I'm actually running into oom issues on one or two fights, is it really worth it to change out an AP gem for Int? My gut instinct is no, as most fights have too much down time for it to really matter overall.
Do you not have Shamanistic Rage in your priority list? Mana should not be a problem unless you're running a ton of leather with 0/2 imp SS.
#2350SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3cryolithic
No leather at all with 0/2 Imp SS.

Thanks for the tip on the mana simulation, that's got int more inline with what I think it should be.
#2351SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Sylvand
1.8.3.1 is out, marked as Beta for now. Please give it a shot and see how it goes.

Notably missing is any change to troll racials; mostly because troll racials aren't implemented at all right now. Also I have not changed the totem of electrifying winds because there are too many unknowns right now.

By the way, if someone can clear something up for me, it looks like Thunder Capacitor is designed to build up 4 charges and then discharge on the 5th spell crit. This doesn't seem to agree with the little I can find on it and The Lightning Capacitor. I'm asking because of Reign of the Unliving works the same way and I think it should discharge on the third spell crit. Of course there is a big difference between discharging on the third vs. fourth spell crit.

Without further ado:

EnhSim - Release: v1.8.3.1

Dark matter will now correctly proc 612 crit rating for melee and spells, instead of 6.12% melee crit.
Specifying identical/overlapping set bonuses will no longer cause bonuses to be applied twice.
Average AP and spellpower during each ability is now tracked and displayed. For spells and special attacks the average is across the attacks that hit or crit. For white attacks (including spirit wolves' attacks) the average also includes misses, dodges and glancing blows.
Victor's Call and Talisman of Volatile Power should now be correctly implemented, similar to the Blackened Naaru Sliver.
Adding Reign of the Unliving, modeled after Thunder Capacitor. Damage done is always the average of the range, and it will deal damage on the third spell crit (subject to cooldown).
Trinkets dropped in the Trial of the Crusader now have normal and heroic versions. Use the following names for these trinkets:
-victors_call, vengeance_of_the_forsaken, 47725, 47881
-victors_call_heroic, vengeance_of_the_forsaken_heroic, 47948, 48020
-talisman_of_volatile_power, fetish_of_volatile_power, 47726, 47879
-talisman_of_volatile_power_heroic, fetish_of_volatile_power_heroic, 47946, 48018
-deaths_verdict, deaths_choice, 47115, 47303
-deaths_verdict_heroic, deaths_choice_heroic, 47131, 47464
-reign_of_the_unliving, reign_of_the_dead, 47182, 47316
-reign_of_the_unliving_heroic, reign_of_the_dead_heroic, 47188, 47477
Other items (trinkets, totems) and set bonuses added in 3.2 can now be specified by item/spell ID.
Adding searing totem and magma totem details for damage summary.
Spirit wolves now gain expertise from the shaman's hit rating; attacks will be dodged 6.5/8 times as much as they miss (0% miss = 0% dodge).
Updating config.txt to contain the supported weapon, trinket, totem and set bonus strings.

Last edited by Sylvand : 08/08/09 at 1:38 PM. Reason: Updating for 1.8.3.1
#2352SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Thanks to Cryolithic for reverse engineering the EnhSimGUI. I've committed this as an extra project into the source of EnhSim. It doesn't compile at present and needs some significant work but at least its a start. If anyone has some time to help out and is a C# developer let me know.
#2353SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Sylvand, can you check on how it is simulating Dark Matter.

It seems to be treating the proc as significantly less then 612 crit rating and there is something wrong with how the proc is affecting spell crit. When I run it with all the stats but the trinket slot left blank (simulating removing the proc) there is no change in Earth Shock, Flametongue, LB or Magma totem dps. There is a slight decrease in white, windfury, SS and LL dps but not enough to correlate with the average amount of melee crit that the proc should be adding.

From playing with the sim a bit more what seems to be happening is that it is only adding 6% melee crit per proc instead of adding 13.33% melee and spell crit per proc.
#2354SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
From playing with the sim a bit more what seems to be happening is that it is only adding 6% melee crit per proc instead of adding 13.33% melee and spell crit per proc.
Thanks, you're exactly correct. Please check out the fix in 1.8.3.1:

EnhSim - Release: v1.8.3.1

I'll update the above link to point here as well.
#2355SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
Please check out the fix in 1.8.3.1:

Numbers look right on target, thank you for the quick response.
#2356SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tramana
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
By the way, if someone can clear something up for me, it looks like Thunder Capacitor is designed to build up 4 charges and then discharge on the 5th spell crit. This doesn't seem to agree with the little I can find on it and The Lightning Capacitor. I'm asking because of Reign of the Unliving works the same way and I think it should discharge on the third spell crit. Of course there is a big difference between discharging on the third vs. fourth spell crit.
Thunder Capacitor has had many changes since it was added to the game.

At first it required 4 crits (build up 3 charges and release on the 4th), and only had a cooldown after the Lightning Bolt.

Then they changed it to require 5 crits:
EnhSim, DPS simulator

Then they returned it to 4 crits, but added a cooldown between each thunder charge.
[Enhancement] 3.1 changes - new rules in place

It looks like it still behaves that way. 4 crits, cooldown between each one.
8/8 11:34:53.158  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED, "Tramana", "Thunder Charge",0x1,BUFF
8/8 11:34:55.992  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE,"Tramana","Thunder Charge",0x1,BUFF,2
8/8 11:35:01.977  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE,"Tramana","Thunder Charge",0x1,BUFF,3
8/8 11:35:06.437  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Tramana","Thunder Charge",0x1,BUFF
8/8 11:35:06.571  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Tramana","Grandmaster's Training Dummy","Lightning Bolt",0x8,1866,1865,8,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
#2357SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
Thunder Capacitor has had many changes since it was added to the game.

At first it required 4 crits (build up 3 charges and release on the 4th), and only had a cooldown after the Lightning Bolt.

Then they changed it to require 5 crits:
EnhSim, DPS simulator

Then they returned it to 4 crits, but added a cooldown between each thunder charge.
[Enhancement] 3.1 changes - new rules in place

It looks like it still behaves that way. 4 crits, cooldown between each one.
8/8 11:34:53.158  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED, "Tramana", "Thunder Charge",0x1,BUFF
8/8 11:34:55.992  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE,"Tramana","Thunder Charge",0x1,BUFF,2
8/8 11:35:01.977  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE,"Tramana","Thunder Charge",0x1,BUFF,3
8/8 11:35:06.437  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,"Tramana","Thunder Charge",0x1,BUFF
8/8 11:35:06.571  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Tramana","Grandmaster's Training Dummy","Lightning Bolt",0x8,1866,1865,8,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
Great, thanks for the info. I'll assume for now that Reign works the same way. This would mean that it's modeled incorrectly in 1.8.3.1 (along with TC). Right now they will charge on any crit except for 2 seconds (2.5 seconds) after a discharge.

So for now the trinket will be overvalued, but I should be able to get a fix out by the time it's actually attainable.
#2358SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
What might be a better idea would be to post the current assumptions about all the new trinkets and ask people to prove or disprove them once the trinkets are attained.
#2359SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
I've tried to explain how they're modeled in the change notes (EnhSim - Source Code). The missing details that I still wonder about are e.g. when it says attack or spell, what is included. For example Reign currently assumes that flametongue crit will trigger a charge. So let me try to summarize these sorts of assumptions:

Victor's Call - any melee attack (MH/OH auto swing, SS, WF) will bump up the stack
Talisman of Volatile Power - any direct spell damage (shock, LB, lightning overload, CL, LvB) or a lightning shield discharge will bump up the stack
Banner of Victory - same trigger as Victor's Call
Abyssal Rune - same trigger as Talisman of Volatile Power
Death's Verdict - any melee attack (MH/OH auto swing, SS, WF) or direct spell damage (shock, LB, lightning overload, CL, LvB) can trigger the proc
Comet's Trail - same trigger as Victor's Call
Reign of the Unliving - any spell crit (shock, LB, lightning overload, CL, LvB) or FT crit can add a charge

Totem of Electrifying Wind - any LB cast (miss, hit, crit) can trigger the proc
Totem of Quaking Earth - any LL cast (miss, dodge, hit, crit) can trigger the proc
#2360SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Paradox
are there any addons which can export my character into a config file for enhsim?
#2361SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
are there any addons which can export my character into a config file for enhsim?
Given your character name and realm, Rawr can conveinently retrieve your character from armory, at which point you can export to EnhSimGui, which can save/etc to persist your settings. Note that you will have to specify which buffs you want to include.
#2362SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3DizRupT
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
are there any addons which can export my character into a config file for enhsim?
ShockAndAwe does this AFAIK
#2363SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mengus
The set bonuses for T9 will be an important factor in determining when to drop 4pc T8.... Arguably the 2pc T9 is rather weak, thought at least it plays well with 2pc T8...

It's obviously not a huge priority right now as it'll be a few weeks before anyone will even have 2pc T9, but wasn't sure if the shaman community had sufficient data from the PTR on the mechanics to begin modeling it now in advance for better planning on which pieces to pick up down the road.
#2364SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Spectras
Please delete this post. I made a mistake in my Sim tables.

Last edited by Spectras : 08/11/09 at 8:50 PM.
#2365SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stelmaria
Also, I'm not the best one at reading these tables. Does the "difference" category still mean that AP would be better than Haste? (On this note is there an FAQ for reading these tables? I was unable to find one)
I believe the value in the difference column is the difference in dps when you add the specified EP-value for that line's stat. So for AP the standard-EP-value is 200, with a dps-increase of 131.64 this leads to a dps increase of 133.64 / 200 = 0.6682 per point AP. Since your dps-increase for haste is at about 2, i would say that 1 haste-rating is worth more than 1 AP.
#2366SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Falcon213
While I didn't derive this in any mathematical way, I just value haste at hit*1.1, as they both have a similar effect on DPS by increasing MW procs, LS procs, and FT damage. Haste having the additional effect of reducing the GCD on LB and ES, thus the amplification. Of course, 1.1 isn't a constant (and like I already stated, I didn't use any maths to create such a number) as haste value rises compared to hit as you reach the DW hit cap and the diminishing returns on hit begin to become apparent.
#2367SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Peterle
Originally Posted by Spectras View Post
Also, I'm not the best one at reading these tables. Does the "difference" category still mean that AP would be better than Haste? (On this note is there an FAQ for reading these tables? I was unable to find one)

I don't kow if my english is good enough to explain it.


Total DPS

Baseline: DPS with current stats
Haste for example: DPS with the amount haste from your EP range added.


Difference

The Difference between basline total DPS and haste total DPS.


DPS p.p. (per point)

DPS p.p. := difference / EP range (rounded values!)
Haste: 2 = 59.87 / 30 (You didn't post your EP ranges. But it should be round about 30 for haste)


EP

We choose AP for comparison.
EP := haste DPS p.p. / ap DPS p.p.
3.03 = 2 / 0.66


Edit: With the EP value you can compare your stats. Total DPS and difference tells you nothing, just because the sim adds a different amount of each stat for simming these values.

Last edited by Peterle : 08/11/09 at 6:59 AM.
#2368SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Spectras View Post
Also, has anyone noticed a drop in dps this patch? With the change to troll berserking, and the change to spirit wolves, it seems like I would have gone up. Perhaps I have been getting some bad RNG, but unfortunately I lost all of my pre-3.2 sim results.

Thoughts/Comments?

Also, I'm not the best one at reading these tables. Does the "difference" category still mean that AP would be better than Haste? (On this note is there an FAQ for reading these tables? I was unable to find one)
It would help if you posted the config file as well. Right now I am getting EP of 1.67 for haste rating. Note that my dps is simming higher than yours and but oddly the breakdown is not proportional, so you may have something weird with your rotation/etc. I would recommend that you check out the BiS thread and see how the rotation there compares to what you're using.
#2369SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Spectras
Ok, I was using the EnhSimGUI and I had never used it before, so I went and redid everything manually through the config to show my actual unbuffed stats. As you can see, my DPS went up by about 450, but haste is still up at 2.95. Hopefully with the config, the sim results, and the EP calc you guys may be able to wonder why Haste is this much better than AP as far as EP values go.
#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			5000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			10	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				80	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				120	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			1	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		1	//{ 0 | 1 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SW = spirit wolves
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3		MW5_LB
rotation_priority4		ES_SS
rotation_priority5		SS
rotation_priority6		ES
rotation_priority7		LL
rotation_priority8		MT
rotation_priority9		LS
rotation_priority10             MW4_LB



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			24.00	//%
armor				10645	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		20/20.0		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		5.0/5.0		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	4.0/4.0		//%, bloody frenzy, savage combat
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		688/688		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	0.0/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	5.0/5.0		//%, improved scorch, winter's chill, imp.shadow bolt
spell_damage_debuff		13.0/13.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of the elements
spellpower_buff			280/280		//flametongue totem, totem of wrath
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			3.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	3.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		3.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath, master poisoner
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			52/52		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		178/178		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			60/60		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			0		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		1		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			flask_of_endless_rage
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose |
//  elixir_of_mastery | gurus_elixir | elixir_of_mighty_agility | elixir_of_mighty_strength |
//  elixir_of_expertise | flask_of_endless_rage | - }

guardian_elixir			-
//{ elixir_of_draenic_wisdom | elixir_of_mighty_thoughts | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | super_mana_potion |
//  runic_mana_potion | - }

food				fish_feast
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | skullfish_soup | 
//  rhinolicious_wyrmsteak | fish_feast | - }



###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race                            troll	//{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         30.62	//%
oh_crit                         30.62
mh_hit                          12.75	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit                          12.75
mh_expertise_rating             142	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating             142
ap                              3938	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
melee_haste                     24.62	//%
armor_penetration               7.71	//%
str                             131
agi                             873
int                             535
spi                             154
spellpower                      1181	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit                      22.63	//%
spell_hit                       15.93	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
spell_haste                     18.94	//%
max_mana                        12141
mp5                             0	//in combat

mh_imbue	 		windfury
oh_imbue	 		flametongue
//{ windfury | flametongue | flametongue_9 | frostbrand | - }

mh_enchant			berserking
oh_enchant			berserking
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | berserking | - }

mh_weapon			axe
oh_weapon			axe
//{ axe | fist | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			pyrite_infuser
trinket2			mirror_of_truth
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  abacus_of_violent_odds | badge_of_tenacity |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | fury_of_the_five_flights |
//  grim_toll | loathebs_shadow | mirror_of_truth | 
//  the_skull_of_guldan | meteorite_whetstone | embrace_of_the_spider |
//  dying curse | illustration_of_the_dragon_soul |
//  sundial_of_the_exiled | forge_ember | incisor_fragment |
//  mark_of_the_war_prisoner | sphere_of_red_dragons_blood |
//  tome_of_arcane_phenomena | mark_of_norgannon | fezziks_pocketwatch |
//  thorny_rose_brooch | rune_of_finite_variation | bandits_insignia |
//  darkmoon_card_greatness | pendulum_of_telluric_currents |
//  vestige_of_haldor | twilight_serpent | thunder_capacitor |
//  tears_of_bitter_anguish | pyrite_infuser | wrathstone |
//  elemental_focus_stone | dark_matter | blood_of_the_old_god |
//  mjolnir_runestone | victors_call | vengeance_of_the_forsaken |
//  victors_call_heroic | vengeance_of_the_forsaken_heroic |
//  talisman_of_volatile_power | fetish_of_volatile_power |
//  talisman_of_volatile_power_heroic | fetish_of_volatile_power_heroic |
//  banner_of_victory | abyssal_rune | deaths_verdict |
//  deaths_choice | deaths_verdict_heroic | deaths_choice_heroic |
//  comets_trail | reign_of_the_unliving | reign_of_the_dead |
//  reign_of_the_unliving_heroic | reign_of_the_dead_heroic | - }

totem				deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | totem_of_splintering |
//  totem_of_ancestral_guidance | totem_of_the_void | skycall_totem | 
//  totem_of_hex | totem_of_dueling | totem_of_the_elemental_plane |
//  deadly_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | hateful_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability |
//  savage_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | deadly_gladiators_totem_of_survival |
//  hateful_gladiators_totem_of_survival | savage_gladiators_totem_of_survival |
//  totem_of_the_dancing_flame | furious_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability |
//  relentless_gladiators_totem_of_indomitability | furious_gladiators_totem_of_survival |
//  relentless_gladiators_totem_of_survival | totem_of_electrifying_wind |
//  totem_of_quaking_earth | - }

set_bonus1			worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2			-
set_bonus3			-
//higher set bonuses include lower ones eg. naxx_melee_4 includes naxx_melee_2
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness | desolation_battlegear |
//  skyshatter_harness_2 | skyshatter_harness_4 | skyshatter_regalia_2 |
//  skyshatter_regalia_4 | naxx_melee_2 | naxx_melee_4 | gladiators_earthshaker |
//  naxx_nuker_2 | naxx_nuker_4 | worldbreaker_battlegear_2 | worldbreaker_battlegear_4 |
//  t9_battlegear_2 | t9_battlegear_4 | t9_regalia_2 | t9_regalia_4 | - }

metagem				chaotic_skyflare_diamond
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | 
//  chaotic_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyflare_diamond |
//  ember_skyflare_diamond | relentless_earthsiege_diamond | - }

gloves_enchant			-
//{ hyperspeed_accelerators | hand_mounted_pyro_rocket }
cloak_enchant			-
//{ lightweave_embroidery | swordguard_embroidery }

//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			stormstrike
glyph_major2			feral_spirit
glyph_major3			windfury_weapon
//{ lightning_shield | flametongue_weapon | lightning_bolt |
//  windfury_weapon | stormstrike | earth_shock | lava | lava_lash |
//  water_mastery | feral_spirit | - }

glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-



#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		2/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		3/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			3/3
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			3/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			5/5
call_of_flame			3/3
elemental_devastation		3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			0/1
elemental_fury			5/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/3
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/3
shamanism			0/5
EnhSim version 1.8.3.1

................................................................................

MH:
miss                1112712        8.25%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            3236749        24.01%
hit                 3107380        23.05%
crit                6026750        44.70%
average ap          7118.73        
clip                0              0.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.86%
procs/swings        13.79%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2231765        52.32%
crit                2033691        47.68%
average ap          7118.87        

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1035907        52.34%
crit                943455         47.66%
average ap          7096.29        

OH:
miss                1111824        8.25%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            3235457        24.00%
hit                 3107860        23.05%
crit                6028450        44.71%
average ap          7155.96        
clip                0              0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 10582907       63.30%
crit                6135450        36.70%
average sp          2740.24        

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1035567        52.32%
crit                943795         47.68%
average ap          7143.94        

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1628897        63.30%
crit                944360         36.70%
average sp          2740.25        

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1236702        52.24%
crit                1130526        47.76%
average ap          7025.75        

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2029328        63.29%
crit                1177257        36.71%
average sp          2746.83        

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2328758        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%
average sp          2749.39        

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2147706        23.99%
hit                 5775396        64.52%
crit                1028356        11.49%
average ap          7142.14        

Magma Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4845190        63.33%
crit                2806082        36.67%
average sp          2741.85        

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 61.25

flurry uptime                  93.43%
unleashed rage uptime          99.99%
elemental devastation uptime   75.67%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              42.38%
oh enchant uptime              37.81%
trinket1 uptime                18.04%
trinket2 uptime                18.03%
totem uptime                   78.91%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 18.09     7.88%
replenishment       36.92     16.09%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 9.74      4.25%
shamanistic rage    68.28     29.75%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         96.46     42.03%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2095.25   30.48%    89.89
windfury            796.54    11.59%    7.11
flametongue         568.21    8.27%     55.73
stormstrike         396.86    5.77%     6.60      36.35     14.93%
lava lash           350.44    5.1%      7.89      21.74     8.93%
magma totem         499.37    7.26%     2.60      48.36     19.86%
earth shock         587.17    8.54%     8.58      55.43     22.76%
lightning bolt      1033.19   15.03%    10.69     78.31     32.16%
lightning shield    239.11    3.48%     0.86      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       307.50    4.47%     0.40      3.31      1.36%

DPS                 6873.65
MPS                 243.50
MP2min              29220.04
MRPS                234.14
Out of mana time    0.22%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 35.36s
simulation speed: 509064x
EnhSim version 1.8.3.1

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 3.07364% (80.6277 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana calculated.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit calculated.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6874.72
ap                        1.00      0.64      7002.44        127.72
crit rating               1.84      1.17      6909.97        35.25
hit rating                1.60      1.02      6905.28        30.56
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6874.72
haste rating              2.95      1.88      6931.24        56.53
armor penetration rating  1.39      0.89      6901.38        26.66
spellpower                1.01      0.64      6971.04        96.32
mh dps                    5.28      3.37      6900.03        25.31
oh dps                    2.59      1.66      6887.14        12.42
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.75      
intelligence              1.31      
spirit                    -0.02     -0.01     6872.60        -2.12
mana                      -0.00     -0.00     6874.03        -0.69
mp5                       -0.02     -0.01     6874.43        -0.29

Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt
elapsed simulation time: 65000.00h
elapsed real time: 468.31s
simulation speed: 499666x
Sylvand, as far as my rotation goes, I chose not to go with the one from the BiS discussion, as I do not have the discipline to weave in 3 stack CL or something like that. I chose to go with something that was more realistic to my actual rotation. Also, I put less emphasis on the rotation as well because in anything with more than 1 mob, CL or Magma totem obviously increases exponentially.

Edit: I got my GSD about 45 seconds ago right after I finished posting these charts, so I will have to redo all of these with updated gear and let you guys know.

Last edited by Spectras : 08/11/09 at 9:27 PM.
#2370SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
latrine
I'm no sim expert but the melee haste on your config looks way too high. Looking at your armory it shows 16.61 melee haste and you have 24.62 typed in. Same issue with your spell haste. Also you probably want to change haste potion to a potion of speed.

edit: I see you are in some PVP gear, maybe your haste actually is that high. And with me adjusting your haste values to your pvp armory character sheet still shows haste valued ~3.

Last edited by latrine : 08/12/09 at 2:12 AM.
#2371SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
Well getting haste that high is entirely possible. At one point I was trying to match my ingame haste to my theoretical haste values in the sim for testing purposes, since what I found is, as long as I was at 30% melee crit before raid buffs, and 23% spell crit before raid buffs, and spell hit capped, then once my unbuffed haste was @ 20%, any haste after that seemed to have a 2.5-3.2 value. I gave up this pursuit however when I noticed how much haste was dropped from T8 to T9 and with the assumption the other gear did the same in the tier.

I would still like to test this ingame though, to see if its not just the sim being nuts with EP value. It was funny, 15-18% haste was @ 2.1 value, 18-19.5% was @ 1.7, and 20.5%+ was the absurd numbers I posted. All numbers being what was required prior to raid buffs, and then being simmed with raid buffs checked.
#2372SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Spectras
Wow, I ran the sims again, and while sitting at 653 haste (25.89%) the EP for haste went down to 1.7. I am so confused. I know haste fluctuates, but I had no idea it would be that much.

Ugh, I was really wanting to find a way that haste was better than AP by using the sim, but I've hit a brick wall.
#2373SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Houndstooth
Originally Posted by Spectras View Post
Haste.
Recent discussion here.
#2374SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Wootlessberger
Hi, I have some weird numbers when I calculate my EP with my current gear.

This is the copy I get from Rawr :

##########################################
### Rawr.Enhance Data Export to EnhSim ###
##########################################

config_source rawr

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         31.43
oh_crit                         31.43
mh_hit                          11.31
oh_hit                          11.31
mh_expertise_rating             141
oh_expertise_rating             141
ap                              4163
melee_haste                     11.62
armor_penetration               9.26
str                             131
agi                             948
int                             545
spi                             154
spellpower                      1249
spell_crit                      22.61
spell_hit                       14.14
spell_haste                     8.94
max_mana                        12291
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
mh_weapon                       fist
oh_enchant                      3789
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40431
trinket2                        40256

totem                           42608
set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41398

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -
glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -


#############
## Talents ##
#############

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            1/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

#########
# Buffs #
#########

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0.0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60
bloodlust_casters               1
flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

combat_length                   6.00
I think only the totem was wrong (Furious) so I set it myself to the deadly one.

The simulation with all buff, no mana for 1000h :

EnhSim version 1.7.0

....................................................................


MH:
miss                239532         9.71%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            590873         23.95%
hit                 512950         20.79%
crit                1124031        45.56%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.79%
procs/swings        14.47%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 429841         51.50%
crit                404795         48.50%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 214453         51.59%
crit                201246         48.41%

OH:
miss                239020         9.69%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            593660         24.06%
hit                 512652         20.78%
crit                1122054        45.48%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1977204        63.23%
crit                1149579        36.77%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 214549         51.61%
crit                201150         48.39%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 331318         63.33%
crit                191807         36.67%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 248178         51.41%
crit                234540         48.59%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 386035         63.31%
crit                223766         36.69%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 452930         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               116786         6.47%
glancing            432480         23.97%
hit                 1047600        58.06%
crit                207412         11.50%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 57.17

flurry uptime                  94.13%
unleashed rage uptime          99.99%
elemental devastation uptime   74.93%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.85%
oh enchant uptime              37.99%
trinket1 uptime                20.67%
trinket2 uptime                0.00%
totem uptime                   80.45%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2040.25   29.64%    82.25
windfury            836.56    12.15%    6.96
flametongue         539.36    7.84%     52.11
stormstrike         448.43    6.51%     6.93      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           365.79    5.31%     8.05      22.16     10.54%
magma totem         542.38    7.88%     2.90      53.92     25.65%
earth shock         589.20    8.56%     8.72      56.34     26.80%
lightning bolt      965.50    14.03%    10.16     74.46     35.43%
lightning shield    229.25    3.33%     0.84      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       326.70    4.75%     0.40      3.31      1.57%

DPS                 6883.42
MPS                 210.20
MP2min              25223.48
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 2.33s
simulation speed: 1546391x
And now the EP values :

EnhSim version 1.7.0

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.28364% (33.6725 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6884.49
ap                        1.00      0.64      7012.54        128.06
crit rating               1.74      1.12      6917.95        33.46
hit rating                1.69      1.08      6917.01        32.52
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6884.49
haste rating              1.13      0.72      6906.24        21.75
armor penetration rating  1.78      1.14      6918.70        34.21
spellpower                1.00      0.64      6980.46        95.97
mh dps                    5.02      3.21      6908.59        24.10
oh dps                    2.21      1.41      6895.09        10.61
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.71
intelligence*             1.43
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6884.49
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6884.49
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6884.49

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.74, HitRating=1.69, HasteRating=1.13
, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.78, SpellDamage=1.00, MainHandDps=5.0
2, OffHandDps=2.21, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.71, Intellect=1.43, Spirit=0.00, Ma
na=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.13&dps=5.02&mp5=0.00&mcr
=1.74&odps=2.21&spd=1.00&Agi=1.71&mhit=1.69&Int=1.43&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.78&
Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 21.00s
simulation speed: 1714367x
1.13 haste seems really low and I can't find out why.... or is this the good number?

Thank you for your help!

EDIT : Did some other EP calculation and numbers vary a lot... now haste is down to 0.88 :

EnhSim version 1.7.0

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.28364% (33.6725 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6886.28
ap                        1.00      0.63      7012.27        125.99
crit rating               1.82      1.15      6920.76        34.48
hit rating                1.61      1.02      6916.80        30.51
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6886.28
haste rating              0.88      0.56      6902.93        16.65
armor penetration rating  1.56      0.98      6915.79        29.51
spellpower                1.02      0.64      6982.20        95.92
mh dps                    5.58      3.51      6912.62        26.34
oh dps                    2.57      1.62      6898.44        12.16
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.80
intelligence*             1.41
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6886.28
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6886.28
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6886.28

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.82, HitRating=1.61, HasteRating=0.88
, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.56, SpellDamage=1.02, MainHandDps=5.5
8, OffHandDps=2.57, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.80, Intellect=1.41, Spirit=0.00, Ma
na=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=0.88&dps=5.58&mp5=0.00&mcr
=1.82&odps=2.57&spd=1.02&Agi=1.80&mhit=1.61&Int=1.41&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.56&
Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 20.88s
simulation speed: 1724550x

Last edited by Wootlessberger : 08/14/09 at 2:03 PM.
#2375SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Sylvand
Can you try it on the latest EnhSim (1.8.3.1)?

To generally give folks an update, I have a couple investigates for which I'm trying to find time (after work, raiding, running daily heroics and running glyphs). I know I also need to add the badge trinket(s).

However the most interesting thing I will try to investigate is the possibility of delaying LBs to maximize Energized uptime. I'll probably try to implement something like "don't cast LB if there are X seconds left on the ICD" or "MW4_LB if the ICD is over". I was trying this yesterday but it was Freya night so I don't think it will reflect anything near the potential benefit.

Last edited by Sylvand : 08/14/09 at 2:37 PM.
#2376SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Wootlessberger
Ok, I got the good version now. Still some low numbers on haste.

4 EP values with latests version :

EnhSim version 1.8.3.1

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.28364% (33.6725 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6837.18
ap                        1.00      0.62      6961.28        124.10
crit rating               2.03      1.26      6874.98        37.80
hit rating                1.62      1.01      6867.39        30.21
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6837.18
haste rating              1.10      0.68      6857.73        20.55
armor penetration rating  1.77      1.10      6870.12        32.94
spellpower                0.99      0.61      6929.38        92.20
mh dps                    5.47      3.39      6862.63        25.45
oh dps                    2.85      1.77      6850.46        13.28
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.82
intelligence*             1.44
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6837.18
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6837.18
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6837.18

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt
elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 40.73s
simulation speed: 883869x
EnhSim version 1.8.3.1

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.28364% (33.6725 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6836.90
ap                        1.00      0.64      6964.65        127.75
crit rating               1.69      1.08      6869.38        32.48
hit rating                1.77      1.13      6870.76        33.86
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6836.90
haste rating              1.13      0.72      6858.61        21.71
armor penetration rating  1.69      1.08      6869.32        32.42
spellpower                1.00      0.64      6932.34        95.44
mh dps                    5.89      3.76      6865.11        28.21
oh dps                    3.21      2.05      6852.29        15.39
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.70
intelligence*             1.39
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6836.90
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6836.90
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6836.90

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt
elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 40.68s
simulation speed: 885042x
EnhSim version 1.8.3.1

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.28364% (33.6725 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6840.09
ap                        1.00      0.63      6965.66        125.57
crit rating               1.58      0.99      6869.86        29.77
hit rating                1.56      0.98      6869.38        29.29
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6840.09
haste rating              0.92      0.58      6857.36        17.27
armor penetration rating  1.51      0.95      6868.53        28.44
spellpower                0.97      0.61      6931.88        91.79
mh dps                    4.68      2.94      6862.13        22.04
oh dps                    2.29      1.44      6850.89        10.80
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.60
intelligence*             1.41
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6840.09
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6840.09
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6840.09

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt
elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 40.65s
simulation speed: 885587x
EnhSim version 1.8.3.1

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.28364% (33.6725 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana skipped.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit skipped.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 skipped.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6836.70
ap                        1.00      0.64      6964.72        128.02
crit rating               1.95      1.25      6874.09        37.38
hit rating                1.59      1.02      6867.31        30.61
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6836.70
haste rating              1.07      0.69      6857.29        20.59
armor penetration rating  1.49      0.95      6865.31        28.60
spellpower                0.98      0.63      6931.21        94.51
mh dps                    6.09      3.90      6865.95        29.24
oh dps                    2.67      1.71      6849.53        12.82
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.80
intelligence*             1.42
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6836.70
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6836.70
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6836.70

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt
elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 40.75s
simulation speed: 883348x
I did try with uncapped expertise and hit, still low haste. Maybe haste is bad for me?


Thanks for your time.
#2377SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Axekilla
weird results when enabling simulate mana in 1.8.3.1

Please delete this post. I forgot to include Shamanistic Rage in my rotation, which lead to my OOM issues during simulation.

Last edited by Axekilla : 08/14/09 at 5:07 PM.
#2378SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Axekilla View Post
When running Enhsim 1.7.0.3b or 1.8.0, I was able to successfully simulate mana usage w/o strange results like 40% oom time.
With the latest 1.8.3.1, regardless of the values I put in, If I check simulate mana, my dps drops to 5400 or so. If I uncheck it, it'll shoot back up to 7250 or thereabouts.

I don't have my exact config as I'm at work. I'll edit this post and add that later if that will help.

Is there a reason why simulate mana doesn't work anymore? Am I missing something?

My spec is 18/53 (2 pts reverb, 0 in imp ss) as per the BIS sheet. sim time and settings are identical to that same first post in the BIS sheet.
I don't know of any reason that simulate mana wouldn't work anymore. Feel free to PM me your config or post it here.
#2379SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Thaekor
enhsim_ep_exports.txt problems...

I have tried looking on here, and have looked through the readme file from the .zip download. I keep getting this error:

Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt

This file isn't in either the 1.8.2 version, or the beta 1.8.3 version I just downloaded. I tried creating this text file, since it also, stopped showing that it would output the ep values to the output.txt file. Still to no avail. Also, it is showing my windfury / flametongue as having a 0% uptime, in what it actually did output. I am just stumped as to what is going on.

I have tried it using both the EnhSimGui, and the batch files in the zip download. The only portion of the config file I changed was the info that is copied to the clipboard, from Rawr.
#2380SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
When you download and run enhsim on a computer that already had a previous version, make sure to point the enhsim gui to the location of the new executable version.
#2381SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Thaekor View Post
I have tried looking on here, and have looked through the readme file from the .zip download. I keep getting this error:

Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt

This file isn't in either the 1.8.2 version, or the beta 1.8.3 version I just downloaded. I tried creating this text file, since it also, stopped showing that it would output the ep values to the output.txt file. Still to no avail. Also, it is showing my windfury / flametongue as having a 0% uptime, in what it actually did output. I am just stumped as to what is going on.

I have tried it using both the EnhSimGui, and the batch files in the zip download. The only portion of the config file I changed was the info that is copied to the clipboard, from Rawr.
enhsim_ep_exports.txt is not needed; it hasn't been included for a while though I know there was a version somewhere that included it. Basically it's used to build e.g. a lootrank URL based on the calculated EP values. Here's the one I use, you can build your own similar to it:

http://www.lootrank.com/wr.asp?Cla=64&s7=4&Max=15&n1=1&Str=$strength&mh=$haste&dps=$mhdps&mcr=$crit&odps=$ohdps&spd=$spellpower&Agi=$agility&mhit=$hit&Int=$intelligence&Spi=&map=$attackpower&arp=$armorp&Exp=2&Ver=6&i3=0&i9=0&j8=0&t1=46212&t2=45480&t3=46203&t5=46205&t8=45553&t9=46208&t10=45249&t6=45108&t7=45444&t11=45503&t31=45525&t12=45931&t32=45263&t4=45224&t14=45449&t15=45463&t16=40267
#2382SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Thaekor
I have the gui pointing to the new executable. I already checked that, and I ran it from the batch files aswell. I guess I should have been a little clearer on what I wanted. After running the EP calculation batch(or gui version for that matter), the output.txt file doesn't have the pawn string like it did in previous versions.

Recently, I have found myself playing resto far more often than enhance, and I roll on enhance gear when no one else wants it. Now i have several pieces of gear, and I want to see which of them are truly upgrades and which are sidegrades at best. Rawr is great, but it doesn't load the items in your inventory, without alt-tabbing to load each item individually (at least as far as I know). With pawn and Enhsim I used to run the sim, load the pawn string and pick the biggest upgrade item, and run it again, until I got the gear sorted out.
#2383SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Thaekor View Post
I have the gui pointing to the new executable. I already checked that, and I ran it from the batch files aswell. I guess I should have been a little clearer on what I wanted. After running the EP calculation batch(or gui version for that matter), the output.txt file doesn't have the pawn string like it did in previous versions.

Recently, I have found myself playing resto far more often than enhance, and I roll on enhance gear when no one else wants it. Now i have several pieces of gear, and I want to see which of them are truly upgrades and which are sidegrades at best. Rawr is great, but it doesn't load the items in your inventory, without alt-tabbing to load each item individually (at least as far as I know). With pawn and Enhsim I used to run the sim, load the pawn string and pick the biggest upgrade item, and run it again, until I got the gear sorted out.
If you have Character Profiler addon loaded RPG Outfitter | Character Profiler: WoW Addon then you can use that to import into Rawr it will import your character and all the items in your bags and bank and mark them all as available.
#2384SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Izuul
I'm using the sim for the first time today (shaman is an alt), and i noticed that the EP values tend to vary a great deal each time you run them.

What's the best way to handle this to get accurate numbers?
#2385SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Izuul View Post
I'm using the sim for the first time today (shaman is an alt), and i noticed that the EP values tend to vary a great deal each time you run them.

What's the best way to handle this to get accurate numbers?

Increase the number of hours. For accuracy you'll want it set to at least 5000 hours and the larger the number better. Also keep in mind that the bigger you set your EP test values the more accurate the results, even if they do lose some precision in the process.
#2386SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Also keep in mind that the bigger you set your EP test values the more accurate the results, even if they do lose some precision in the process.
I think you have these reversed. If you set an EP value of 300 (for something), it should reduce the effect of RNG on the result but it may not be representative of what will happen if you add only 20 or 40.
#2387SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I think you have these reversed. If you set an EP value of 300 (for something), it should reduce the effect of RNG on the result but it may not be representative of what will happen if you add only 20 or 40.
A bazooka being used against a small target is pretty damn accurate even if it isn't very precise. Large EP values will give you very accurate results, they just won't have any precision at all.

True, I could just be screwing up the terminology but that is how I've always thought of it working.

Last edited by Rouncer : 08/17/09 at 5:48 PM.
#2388SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Synkronos
I think what everyone's talking about here is consistent results If you want the sim to give (nearly) the same results every time you run it for a given input set, you'll need to increase the number of hours, as Rouncer says.

For most things you don't really need the smoothing provided by large EP values. Haste is the obvious exception here with massive swings in value over a very short range. The rest behave pretty much as expected and change in value very gradually.
#2389SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Katine
I searched this thread to see if Blood of the Old God is implemented and i would appear from previous posts that it is as long as i use the item id (45522). However when i add that item ID im still getting Trinket 45522 not found when i run the sim.

Am i missing something?

Edit: Oops i forgot to update my path to the new enhsim.exe.
#2390SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
EnhSim 1.8.3.2 is out

EnhSim - Release: v1.8.3.2

Adding 6 second cooldown to Totem of Electrifying Winds proc.
Hyperspeed Accelerators will now work with on use trinkets. They will trigger a 10 second trinket lockout and will be used with higher priority than trinkets.
Thunder Capacitor and Reign of the Unliving proc fixed; they will now discharge on the 4th and 3rd proc respectively, and their cooldown applies between each proc, not just after a discharge.
Added the following trinkets from triumph badges
- Mark of Supremacy (mark_of_supremacy, 47734)
- Shard of the Crystal Heart (shard_of_the_crystal_heart, 48722)
- Talisman of Resurgence (talisman_of_resurgence, 48724)

The EP exports file Levva added is also included.

Right now the next thing I foresee adding will be the new Deathbringer proc. If anyone manages to get their hands on this, please add as much information as you can here (or in the 3.2 thread, or PM me).
#2391SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Alandovos
EnhSim GUI

As an FYI I've started working on decompiling and getting a new clean source copy of the EnhSimGUI so we can move forward. Once I've got a fully working version of the last release I'll start on getting updates done. Nothing is available for testing yet but I'm 90% on having the display source where it needs to be and just need the config reading/writing fixed up so it can compile. My estimate is about a week or so to get that done.

If you have suggestions for improvements beyond just getting new items to show up by name in the drop downs (vs the code #) either send me a PM or add an item to the work list at the codeplex site (EnhSim - Issue Tracker). PLEASE DO NOT REPLY IN THE THREAD.
#2392SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3mjgunn
Just to triple check here....

To put an item that isn't in the list in the gui yet into the sim, say the mjolnir runestone, or the totem of electrifying wind, I just put the item ID #, say 47666 for the totem, into the totem spot? Want to make sure I'm really right on this because doing that shows an almost 200 dps increase from my deadly gladiator's totem of indomitability which seems like a huge boost for a single piece (not that I'd be complaining!).
#2393SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mengus
If you look at config.txt file that comes in the latest version of EnhSim, you can see all the various totems, set bonuses, trinkets, etc. that are commented out.

If you're using the EnhSimGui, it won't be able to access them, but use the gui for what you can, then go in and manually edit a config file (make sure you backup the original) and you can insert the appropriate items in there.
#2394SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
A bazooka being used against a small target is pretty damn accurate even if it isn't very precise. Large EP values will give you very accurate results, they just won't have any precision at all.

True, I could just be screwing up the terminology but that is how I've always thought of it working.
However this approach is fundamentally flawed as you cannot say that the EP values for say +300 Haste is anything like the EP values for +10 Haste.

EP Values VARY depending on your gear. The most certainly VARY if you inflate their value. You CANNOT reliably use wildly varying EP values and have a hope of them giving accurate results for your current gear.

For example: we know that typical early Naxx EP values are very different from typical post Ulduar values. If you started with Early Naxx gear and adding huge EP steps what you are doing is pushing the results well past even T9 values. Do you seriously imagine that you are going to get good results?

EP values if they are ever of any use are only good for adding a small delta from your current gear and checking what effects they have. This is especially true of haste and the irritating effects of simulator precision where micro variants in hasted GCD effects can mean wild variants in what is theoretically possible for priorites. eg: dipping a GCD so that 14.00001 Magma totem drops is possible during a fight rather than 13.99999. A tiny tiny amount of extra haste can give a dps boost that you'd never actually experience in reality.

Using EP values should only ever be a manual short cut to actually trying out the current setup vs a proposed setup.

ie: if you sim your current gear get a set of realistic EP values and a dps total. If you use those EP values to suggest re-gemming/enchanting you SHOULD ALWAYS feed the proposed setup AFTER regemming/enchanting back into the sim to ACTUALLY CHECK if the dps went up.

Way to many times I've seen someone get EP results and say "EnhSim told me to re-gem for haste, so I removed all my AP gems and replaced with haste ones". They never tested the sim with the new gem config as often if they had the result would be LOWER dps. You cannot rely on EP values to give you anything other than general guidance as to what to go after. Actually running the sim with the new config is vital.
#2395SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
However this approach is fundamentally flawed as you cannot say that the EP values for say +300 Haste is anything like the EP values for +10 Haste.
[/b]
You are just saying exactly the same thing just with more capital letters. edit Simming with +300 crit rating will be pretty precise but your accuracy will be in the toilet so the results will be useless, just as simming with +1 haste rating would be incredibly accurate but the precision /edit would be garbage since any variation would be lost in general RNG so those results would also be garbage.

The concept is to find a compromise point between those two extremes and this is aided by increasing the length of time the sim is run for, to attempt to limit the amount of general randomness that enters into the results.

I did have an interesting thought though, based on your haste example. Maybe it would be a good idea to change combat length from a specific value to instead give it a range of values. So that instead of having the sim run 10 minute blocks of combat simulations for 10000 hours, it would run blocks that vary randomly in length from say 9:30 to 10:15 for those 10000 hours. That would more accurately simulate combat conditions where we have a general idea how long a fight will last but can't be that precise about it. This possibly could resolve some of the irregularities we are getting with haste values as well as limit any skewing of the results due to the influence of activated abilities. For example think about something like the hyperaccelerators. They have 12 second duration and a 1 minute cooldown or a 20% uptime but if the combat cycles were set to say 3:30 then they actually end up with a 23% uptime increasing their value. This gets even more skewed with something like the wrathstone or the Feral Spirits with their longer cooldowns.


Edited to fix as the concept was fine just had the terms mixed up.

Last edited by Rouncer : 08/24/09 at 12:00 AM.
#2396SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Random combat legnths an EXCELLENT idea, sorry couldn't resist given your caps comment.

It would be easily possible to randomly add say +/- 10% of the combat length. So if you set for 10 mins it varies between 9mins & 11 mins. If you set for 6 mins it varies between 5m 24s and 6m 36s. This would indeed smooth out the random effects of tiny haste value changes, due to fixed combat lengths.


Oh whilst I'm at it. Sylvand I was thinking that for EP value outputs it would be a good idea to include "Best Gem values" at the bottom of that so you list ...

Bright Cardinal Ruby (40 AP) : 40 EP
Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi) : X EP
Quick King's Amber (20 Haste) : X EP
Smooth King's Amber (20 Crit) : X EP
Runed Cardinal Ruby (23 Spellpower) : X EP etc.

The idea being that it smooths out the effect of the different item budgets and makes comparing easier.

Even better if you say listed top Red socket, Yellow socket, Blue socket gems by EP value. Which is possibly the most FAQ we get.

Last edited by Levva : 08/20/09 at 11:12 AM.
#2397SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Yo!
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Random combat legnths an EXCELLENT idea, sorry couldn't resist given your caps comment.
It would be easily possible to randomly add say +/- 10% of the combat length. So if you set for 10 mins it varies between 9mins & 11 mins. If you set for 6 mins it varies between 5m 24s and 6m 36s. This would indeed smooth out the random effects of tiny haste value changes, due to fixed combat lengths.
Random combat length makes simulation more "real" but may bring additional fluctuation to EP values and will not smooth EP results produced by tiny haste value changes that are caused by borderline cases of "swing time/windfurry cooldown" ratio.
#2398SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
It shouldn't be difficult to add random combat length, though it will be an extra (optional) parameter in the config file so it might be tricky to use it with the GUI. Are you guys thinking uniform distribution or something like normal/etc.?

Accuracy vs. precision; I don't want to push to point all too much because it's coming down to a matter of semantics, but I would mention that the wikipedia article Accuracy and precision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia uses them in the same way Levva and I have. There's a good chance other people would use them the same way.
#2399SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Simming with +300 crit rating will be pretty accurate but your precision will be in the toilet so the results will be useless,
I think you've mixed up those terms. As noted above in the wiki link, precision relates to the repeatability of the data. Repeated simulation with the same inputs produces fairly precise data - the output values of dps and EP values aren't going to dramatically change from one run to another as long as the inputs are fixed.
#2400SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3dedmonwakeen
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Random combat legnths an EXCELLENT idea, sorry couldn't resist given your caps comment.

It would be easily possible to randomly add say +/- 10% of the combat length. So if you set for 10 mins it varies between 9mins & 11 mins. If you set for 6 mins it varies between 5m 24s and 6m 36s. This would indeed smooth out the random effects of tiny haste value changes, due to fixed combat lengths.
I've found that using random latency values accomplishes the same thing.

Also, if you are running multiple iterations of the same fight length, I would be very wary of how you end the fight.

DPS = Total_Damage / Time_Spent_Attacking

Time_Spent_Attacking can be defined in a couple different ways. Granted, this is more of an issue for characters with long cast-time nukes......

Another way to get slight variation in combat length is to limit the sim by target health.
#2401SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Schwolop
Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen View Post
Another way to get slight variation in combat length is to limit the sim by target health.
Except that then people would need to work out beforehand how much health to allocate to their simulated boss, etc. Perhaps run the sim as normal for a time duration, and when this duration is elapsed switch to a target health of a hundred thousand or so.

If you go with variation of the fight time idea, I wouldn't advocate randomly adjusting the fight time, but would instead span the range of times from a particular distribution (flat, gaussian, or whatever). A set of random fight times has the potential to be misleading, just like a set of fights all of the same length can be. If we have a fixed distribution of times over the whole range then we can be sure that we've sampled fight lengths at enough of the relevant points.
#2402SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3dedmonwakeen
Originally Posted by Schwolop View Post
Except that then people would need to work out beforehand how much health to allocate to their simulated boss, etc. Perhaps run the sim as normal for a time duration, and when this duration is elapsed switch to a target health of a hundred thousand or so.
Halfway through the first iteration you calculate target health based upon damage done.
At the end of every iteration, you recalculate with a dampening factor.

void target_t::recalculate_health()
{
  if ( sim -> max_time == 0 ) return;

  if ( initial_health == 0 )
  {
    current_health = total_dmg;
    initial_health = current_health * ( sim -> max_time / sim -> current_time );
  }
  else
  {
    double delta_time = sim -> current_time - sim -> max_time;
    delta_time /= sim -> current_iteration + 1; // dampening factor

    double factor = 1 - ( delta_time / sim -> max_time );
    if ( factor > 1.5 ) factor = 1.5;
    if ( factor < 0.5 ) factor = 0.5;

    initial_health *= factor;
  }

  if ( sim -> debug ) log_t::output( sim, "Target initial health calculated to be %.0f", initial_health );
}
#2403SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Andrast
The example of haste is a tricky one because of its interaction with the windfury cooldown.

I'll take my current output as an example. This is with a Haste EP step of 20 to mimic the insertion of a single epic haste gem (which is rather contrived but bear with me):


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      7523.60
ap                        1.00      0.65      7654.22        130.62
crit rating               1.54      1.01      7553.77        30.17
hit rating                1.61      1.05      7555.09        31.48
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -7523.60
haste rating              1.47      0.96      7542.78        19.17
armor penetration rating  1.43      0.93      7551.61        28.00
spellpower                1.00      0.65      7621.62        98.01
mh dps                    5.39      3.52      7550.00        26.40
oh dps                    1.83      1.20      7532.58        8.97
As you can see this shows quite a low value for haste. Increasing this value to mimic a trinket proc of, say, 300 haste gives:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      7522.27
ap                        1.00      0.65      7653.18        130.91
crit rating               1.75      1.14      7556.57        34.30
hit rating                1.65      1.08      7554.76        32.49
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -7522.27
haste rating              2.14      1.40      7941.61        419.34
armor penetration rating  1.45      0.95      7550.77        28.50
spellpower                0.97      0.64      7617.89        95.62
mh dps                    4.92      3.22      7546.43        24.16
oh dps                    2.49      1.63      7534.51        12.24
The important thing here is to understand, as many of you already do, that adding 300 haste is proportionally far more beneficial than adding 20 haste.

Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Oh whilst I'm at it. Sylvand I was thinking that for EP value outputs it would be a good idea to include "Best Gem values" at the bottom of that so you list ...

Bright Cardinal Ruby (40 AP) : 40 EP
Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi) : X EP
Quick King's Amber (20 Haste) : X EP
Smooth King's Amber (20 Crit) : X EP
Runed Cardinal Ruby (23 Spellpower) : X EP etc.
Because of the example I put above I'd suggest not doing this. Using exactly the same gear and just by changing the EP step value for Haste I drastically altered the "best Gem". From experience we know that gemming AP is generally the way to go. Putting the "Best Gem Values" at the bottom on the enhsim output would be overly confusing to newer users, and really isn't needed for anyone else.

For the newest enhance shaman the best thing to do would be to point them towards the think-tank entry and to the BiS gear list post, and perhaps develop some quick tutorials on how to use Rawr and Enhsim.
#2404SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Andrast View Post
The example of haste is a tricky one because of its interaction with the windfury cooldown.


The important thing here is to understand, as many of you already do, that adding 300 haste is proportionally far more beneficial than adding 20 haste.

Because of the example I put above I'd suggest not doing this. Using exactly the same gear and just by changing the EP step value for Haste I drastically altered the "best Gem". From experience we know that gemming AP is generally the way to go. Putting the "Best Gem Values" at the bottom on the enhsim output would be overly confusing to newer users, and really isn't needed for anyone else.

For the newest enhance shaman the best thing to do would be to point them towards the think-tank entry and to the BiS gear list post, and perhaps develop some quick tutorials on how to use Rawr and Enhsim.
Really all you proved there is that EP values are inherently volatile and an illusion, haste doubly so (not unlike time & lunchtime - bonus points to those that get the reference).

It would be an interesting exercise to map haste EP step values to haste EP results given say the result from the BiS thread and step it from 10 in steps of 10 and plot the resultant EP curve. My guess from partial trials is you will get a very wavy line.
#2405SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
It would be an interesting exercise to map haste EP step values to haste EP results given say the result from the BiS thread and step it from 10 in steps of 10 and plot the resultant EP curve. My guess from partial trials is you will get a very wavy line.

I came here just now to post something very similar to this:

It would be really neat if enhsim (or a script utilizing it) had a function that automagically found the local DPS maximum for regemming haste over crit or AP; so literally subtract X crit/2XAP, add X haste, compare DPS, rinse+repeat. This gets around the whole EP problem with haste (is the haste you have most valuable when the EP value is high, or does it only get high when you have the previous "less-worthful" haste to get there?) and goes for what we really want - DPS.

Of course it would be highly interesting to have a tool that parses enhsim's output to begin with (which you'd need to perform the above), to perform the above analyses into haste's value over the haste coordinate.
#2406SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3clliche
I have a quick question, when LS is put into the rotation, does Enhsim just refresh it every time nothing else is on available on the list or does it refresh at a certain number of charges?
#2407SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Typeronin
Originally Posted by clliche View Post
I have a quick question, when LS is put into the rotation, does Enhsim just refresh it every time nothing else is on available on the list or does it refresh at a certain number of charges?
I have LS refresh priority after magma totem and before lava lash...although I tend to hit it every time I have nothing to do.
#2408SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cookiemonster
For some reason I keep getting a strange message and I cant seem to find out whats causing it. The message is "Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt". I find reinstalling it works sometimes but I'd rather find a more permanent solution. I'm also wondering if Enhsim is going to be getting an update anytime soon for new items and things?
#2409SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
I think you've mixed up those terms. As noted above in the wiki link, precision relates to the repeatability of the data. Repeated simulation with the same inputs produces fairly precise data - the output values of dps and EP values aren't going to dramatically change from one run to another as long as the inputs are fixed.
I very much could have mixed up the terms and stated as much too, but the basic concept is sound in any event. You have to make choices between being incredibly accurate and incredibly precise and it is finding a proper compromise point that really matters. I guess we could continue the discussion further but it gets into the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal and doesn't really seem necessary to take it to that level [i](reading "Black Hole War" lately and I am 5 shots of So Ju and 3 beers in at the moment)[i].
#2410SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
I very much could have mixed up the terms and stated as much too, but the basic concept is sound in any event. You have to make choices between being incredibly accurate and incredibly precise and it is finding a proper compromise point that really matters. I guess we could continue the discussion further but it gets into the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal and doesn't really seem necessary to take it to that level [i](reading "Black Hole War" lately and I am 5 shots of So Ju and 3 beers in at the moment)[i].
lol this isn't quantum mechanics we're talking here...! But, you have the idea mostly correct: longer sim times (repeats) yield more average and better signal to noise (signal being an actual DPS change, noise being the random +- inherent to to the sim) ratio with no artifacting; increasing the EP jump also drastically increases signal to noise, but has the potential to render the information useless as it doesn't describe the system you're interested in anymore.
#2411SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3thordinrokbeard
I'm a first time user of enhsim...and whenever I hit simulate or calculate EP values, the dos window comes up but it doesn't do anything. I have enhsim.exe as the path file. Was wondering if there was a way to fix this issue.
#2412SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Malan
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
You have to make choices between being incredibly accurate and incredibly precise and it is finding a proper compromise point that really matters. I guess we could continue the discussion further but it gets into the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal
Huh? Not at all. It's perfectly reasonable to try to achieve both precision and accuracy in experimentation. They are not mutually exclusive.
#2413SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Huh? Not at all. It's perfectly reasonable to try to achieve both precision and accuracy in experimentation. They are not mutually exclusive.
You are still missing my point. It's a matter of degrees. You can't be perfectly accurate and perfectly precise, you can only ever have a compromise between the two stats. Exclusivity is not what I was saying but you always do have to find a proper compromise point for the results to be relevant.

EnhSim, DPS simulator

If you run ranges like that you will get very precise results in that they will be repeatable with a small range of variation but how accurate will they be? Real stat changes will be in the 2 digit range and not the 3 digit range so the accuracy will be low. Run with EP values set to a single gem and the results will be more accurate but how precise as variation between each individual run is going to be significant.

Big EP Range
### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         100
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  300
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 300
ep_armor_penetration_rating     300
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    3
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         10
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              MW4_LB
rotation_priority5              ES_SS
rotation_priority6              SS
rotation_priority7              ES
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LL
rotation_priority10             LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                16.0/16.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.7
oh_speed                        2.7
mh_dps                          188.1
oh_dps                          178.9
mh_crit                         32.35
oh_crit                         32.35
mh_hit                          13.63
oh_hit                          13.63
mh_expertise_rating             110
oh_expertise_rating             110
ap                              4433
melee_haste                     14.23
armor_penetration               8.28
str                             149
agi                             899
int                             573
spi                             172
spellpower                      1330
spell_crit                      24.28
spell_hit                       17.04
spell_haste                     10.95
max_mana                        12711
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       fist
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40256
trinket2                        45286

totem                           42607

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  hyperspeed_accelerators
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
Two runs gave

EnhSim version 1.8.3.2

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      7142.06
ap                        1.00      0.65      7272.72        130.66
crit rating               1.85      1.21      7505.43        363.37
hit rating                1.58      1.03      7173.02        30.96
expertise rating          0.84      0.55      7160.04        17.98
haste rating              1.72      1.13      7479.63        337.57
armor penetration rating  1.68      1.10      7470.66        328.60
spellpower                1.02      0.67      7242.32        100.26
mh dps                    5.24      3.43      7167.75        25.69
oh dps                    2.60      1.70      7154.79        12.73
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.73
intelligence*             1.40
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -7142.06
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -7142.06
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -7142.06

elapsed simulation time: 55000.00h
elapsed real time: 111.26s
simulation speed: 1779631x
and

EnhSim version 1.8.3.2

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      7141.85
ap                        1.00      0.65      7271.52        129.68
crit rating               1.87      1.22      7506.39        364.54
hit rating                1.58      1.02      7172.51        30.67
expertise rating          0.96      0.62      7162.25        20.41
haste rating              1.74      1.13      7479.77        337.92
armor penetration rating  1.69      1.10      7470.58        328.73
spellpower                1.06      0.69      7245.13        103.28
mh dps                    5.47      3.55      7168.46        26.61
oh dps                    2.26      1.46      7152.82        10.98
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.74
intelligence*             1.40
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -7141.85
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -7141.85
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -7141.85

elapsed simulation time: 55000.00h
elapsed real time: 111.08s
simulation speed: 1782531x
Notice how little variation there is between the results.

Now for 1 gem range values

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   23
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20
Results

EnhSim version 1.8.3.2

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      7141.43
ap                        1.00      0.65      7167.61        26.18
crit rating               1.84      1.20      7165.48        24.05
hit rating                1.66      1.08      7163.12        21.70
expertise rating          0.93      0.61      7161.46        20.03
haste rating              1.83      1.20      7165.41        23.99
armor penetration rating  1.53      1.00      7161.43        20.01
spellpower                1.11      0.72      7158.07        16.65
mh dps                    5.54      3.62      7168.61        27.18
oh dps                    2.63      1.72      7154.33        12.90
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.74
intelligence*             1.39
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -7141.43
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -7141.43
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -7141.43

elapsed simulation time: 55000.00h
elapsed real time: 110.83s
simulation speed: 1786503x
and

EnhSim version 1.8.3.2

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      7141.70
ap                        1.00      0.64      7167.34        25.64
crit rating               1.68      1.07      7163.20        21.50
hit rating                1.63      1.05      7162.63        20.93
expertise rating          0.91      0.58      7160.82        19.12
haste rating              1.84      1.18      7165.33        23.62
armor penetration rating  1.63      1.05      7162.65        20.95
spellpower                1.13      0.72      7158.37        16.66
mh dps                    5.35      3.43      7167.44        25.74
oh dps                    2.64      1.69      7154.40        12.69
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.69
intelligence*             1.37
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -7141.70
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -7141.70
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -7141.70


elapsed simulation time: 55000.00h
elapsed real time: 110.68s
simulation speed: 1788892x
Significantly more variation (less precision) in the results although these results are more accurate as they represent changes in stat values that people will be experiencing. That's all I was trying to say in the initial post and while I did mix up the terms (I edited that post to fix it) the concept is still sound and still should be something for people to keep in mind when setting their EP values.
#2414SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
I think there is a small issue with the simulator and weapon speed. If you are using two weapons with the same attack speed the sim result shows a higher uptime for flurry.
This was mentioned on page 43/44 but it seems that it was never fixed:
Originally Posted by Tramana View Post
It's simple enough to see if you're getting in phase weapons in a wws parse or combatlog for a fight like patchwerk

Or you can test on a target dummy. Get into range of the target dummy and start with a SS. For me this is what I got when I tried:
1/1 14:09:23.526  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,17364,"Stormstrike",0x9
1/1 14:09:23.535  SWING_DAMAGE,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,1711,1710,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:23.570  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Stormstrike",0x1,1851,1850,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:23.570  SPELL_DAMAGE,"Stormstrike",0x1,990,989,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:24.794  SWING_DAMAGE,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,1053,1052,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:25.446  SWING_DAMAGE,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,1038,1037,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
1/1 14:09:26.653  SWING_DAMAGE,"Expert's Training Dummy",0x10a28,1036,1035,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
So leading with stormstrike does not automatically put your weapons in phase.
I did some similar tests and i never get my weapons in phase.

3.0.3 patch notes - shaman
Flurry: Now grants the proper number of charges when it triggers.
It seems they fixed it by preventing two white hits at the same time.
#2415SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Malan
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
You are still missing my point. It's a matter of degrees. You can't be perfectly accurate and perfectly precise, you can only ever have a compromise between the two stats.

Seriously, I have no idea where you are getting this from. That is not true at all. Accuracy and Precision are 2 very different things - they are not attached on some sort of sliding spectrum where the more you have of one the less you have of the other. You can have an instrument be very accurate and very precise at the same time. This is not at all like the Heisenberg principle, you need to banish that from your mind.

[e] Think of this as though you were firing a rifle at a gun range. If your shots are scattered all over the target, then you are neither accurate nor precise. If you can get them all dead center of the target then you have high accuracy and high precision. If they're all clustered to one side of the target then you have low accuracy but high precision. Or you could have the shots relatively near the center of the target (accurate) but not in a tight cluster (low precision).

Last edited by Malan : 08/24/09 at 10:18 AM.
#2416SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Ok guys I'm off on holiday now, as I was bored before I left I've done some work on ShockAndAwe and released a new version you can see the details of the changes at ShockAndAwe (formerly DisqoDice)

Rouncer has been added as a co-ordinator of the EnhSim project so that he can add additional developers as needed. eg: if someone comes forward to work on the GUI part. Someone did say they wanted to do that but they haven't posted on this thread if I recall correctly. If you still want to participate and help update the GUI check with Sylvand and Rouncer please as they can add you to the project.

I'll see how I feel on my return if I want to continue playing game, if I don't then all the best to you all. Otherwise I'll be back in 3 weeks. The feedback from Blizzcon with all the dumming down of the stats makes me think that a big chunk of theorycrafting is going to disappear and therefore why bother continuing to play when thats a huge part of what makes the game fun for me. However I appreciate it will be at least 8 months to a year before Cataclysm hits the shops, so I might just play on once back from holiday. Assuming of course I can find a suitable guild on an EU realm.

Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Think of this as though you were firing a rifle at a gun range. If your shots are scattered all over the target, then you are neither accurate nor precise. If you can get them all dead center of the target then you have high accuracy and high precision. If they're all clustered to one side of the target then you have low accuracy but high precision. Or you could have the shots relatively near the center of the target (accurate) but not in a tight cluster (low precision).
If the shots are all clustered to one side is this not high consistency rather than high precision? However that said its a decent analogy.

Accurate - free from error
Precise - exactly measured

In sim terms - the degree of precision is how wide a range of results you get - the degree of accuracy is how close the correct answer you are (in our case the "correct" answer is the results seen in game).

Last edited by Levva : 08/25/09 at 9:29 AM.
#2417SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Alandovos
I'm still working on the GUI. Guess my last post was in the [Enhancement] 3.2 Changes thread instead of this one when someone else brought up changes they'd like to see.

Issues on my house have prevented me from moving as fast as I'd like but I'd like to target this weekend for a first pass. Short version is that writing things out is done and just need to work on reading in files and copying from the clipboard.
#2418SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
The feedback from Blizzcon with all the dumming down of the stats makes me think that a big chunk of theorycrafting is going to disappear and therefore why bother continuing to play when thats a huge part of what makes the game fun for me. However I appreciate it will be at least 8 months to a year before Cataclysm hits the shops, so I might just play on once back from holiday. Assuming of course I can find a suitable guild on an EU realm.

In sim terms - the degree of precision is how wide a range of results you get - the degree of accuracy is how close the correct answer you are (in our case the "correct" answer is the results seen in game).
They may be trying to simplify things but it was clear from their comments that they understand that the game has a very active TC community and they don't plan on forsaking us. Simple to learn but with great depth is a paraphrase from one of their comments. I think a lot of the upcoming changes comes down to them having to release the actual equation for Armor Penetration, due to it's complexity, and they really didn't like that. The other thing is they aren't thrilled with the damage/health ratio and they prefer to bring all the other classes up to the level of plate instead of bringing plate down to everyone else. Another option would have been to change plate to 5 stats (by adding AP to it) and then devalue stamina further (like the change made in TBC) but that would merely inflate the disparity between tank healthpools and everyone else even further. Which causes issues since then healers have to be able to deal with those huge healthpools on raids making them overpowered in a PvP situation where the incoming damage can't be anywhere near as profound.

Basically the more I think about it the happier I am with the concept of the itemization changes, although it remains to see how exactly things will work out. Besides that Mastery stat is going to need some serious simming to determine how valuable it will actually be compared to something like the revised Agility.


As for the who accuracy/precision thing, that's precisely the point I was trying to make (see what I did there). Setting the EP range very large will give you a small range of answers but how applicable those answers are to the real conditions in the game is disputable. Setting the EP range very small (say 1 gem value) will give you results that are very applicable to in game conditions but the range of those results may be unacceptable large. Increasing the sim time helps stabilize things but there still has to be some understanding of the above involved when choosing what values to utilize.
#2419SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Gbits
Personally, I think it's going to be a large improvement. We've long complained that shamans are over-itemized (more useful stats than virtually any other class), and this move clearly corrects that. They additionally said that we'd get a mechanic like retadins to convert spellpower (represented in this scenario by intellect) to AP, so that we don't have to itemize for that specifically any more, and that they'd address the resulting mana issues "somehow."

There will still be a wealth of TC to be done between Mastery stats, relative bonuses between different stats (since all will now be affected by buffs, not just some), the increased procs from items/talent-based abilities they promised to replace the lost stats and "make X spell more powerful" talents that currently exist and, possibly, some of the Path of the Titans character advancement "glyphs." It could be a giant mess, but I really don't expect gear to become something like Thrall's Headpiece of the Whale, or for us suddenly to no longer need to sim.
#2420SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Yo!
Reducing number of stats was expected, some of them are simply combinations of other stats and cheating Item level budget as such. I do not like current situation when every gearing step has to be verified by external programs that produce results that cannot be verified in game. Theorycrafting will remain strong, reforging alone will be huge theorycrafting challenge.
#2421SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Yo! View Post
Theorycrafting will remain strong, reforging alone will be huge theorycrafting challenge.
I did like the statement by GC the other day on that point.

Imagine reforging could work like enchanting, where there are specific recipes that everyone knows. Example: "Converts Spirit into 50% equivalent hit rating on gloves."

I'm not saying it would work like this, but something along those lines would be pretty comparable to existing features.
At least that would simplify the process of working out how best to use the ability.
#2422SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3wolfman1265
I am very new to enhsim. I used ensidia's guide to using it.. Anyways my ep values

Ap 1
crit 1.67
hit 1.67 (ensidia had me lower my hit rating no weapons to show what hit would give if i lost hit on an item)
exp 2.78 ( same as above, i am at cap)

now, haste was 3.17

Now i know that haste is sometimes the best to gem.. but 3.17? seems really high.. Is this normal?

and by the way, i used rawr to copy my character to clipboard
#2423SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Saabu
I'm using enhsim ver 1.8.3.2 and can't find the the new T9 set bonus option. Is there a newer version that I'm missing or has this not yet been added?

Last edited by Saabu : 08/25/09 at 5:12 PM.
#2424SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Morthis
It's listed in the config file, the last line for set bonuses.

"t9_battlegear_2 | t9_battlegear_4 | t9_regalia_2 | t9_regalia_4"

Battlegear is the enhance set, Regalia is the elemental set.
#2425SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Saabu
Just to confirm.

Inside the 'procs and stuff' tab, in the drop down list for set bonus, the T9 set does not show up. Instead I type it in manually?

It does not show up for me in the drop down menu for some reason.

Last edited by Saabu : 08/26/09 at 3:08 PM.
#2426SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ehanoro
Troubles with Enhsimgui

Hello, I am having troubles having updated trinkets in my drop-down menu, I have downloaded the latest version multiple times, any help would be appreciated
#2427SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Typeronin
Sometimes EnhSim GUI will point to old versions of the actual EnhSim application. The path is in the bottom right hand corner of the GUI. Point it at the latest version of the app and you should be good to go.

If you're asking about selecting the latest trinkets, sometimes they're not named so you'll have to export from ShockandAwe or know what the corresponding #'s are.
#2428SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
Nothing from the newly added sets/trinkets will show up in the gui since the source for the gui isn't available thus cannot be edited, so the new stuff can't be added as long as someone manages to decompile it.
#2429SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Andrast
Originally Posted by Aximous View Post
Nothing from the newly added sets/trinkets will show up in the gui since the source for the gui isn't available thus cannot be edited, so the new stuff can't be added as long as someone manages to decompile it.
As the poster above you suggested you can type in the item id into the trinket and relic fields. If you export from ShockandAwe or Rawr you'll notice that they both export in this fashion.

If you're having trouble figuring out what the item id for a particular trinket should be, look it up on wowhead and the number in the url will be the id.
#2430SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ehanoro
..Alright, stupid question, but, how do I export from ShockandAwe? I Control+C it, then what do I do with it? Thanks again, Ehan.
#2431SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ronboar
You press the "copy from clipboard" button...
#2432SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sansa
I'm an orc with a fist weapon MH and mace OH. when i sim for expertise, i get around 1.14 for expertise when i'm at 26/21 (MH/OH expertise) and 0.6 for 28/23 (Have to call the fist weapon an axe in enhsimgui since it doesn't include "fist" as an option). But I see a lot of well-known top enh orc shamans at 31/26 expertise on wow armory. Would different gear really make that much of a difference? Based on enhsim I was going to forget gemming expertise past 26 on the MH but I would appreciate any thoughts.
#2433SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sansa View Post
I'm an orc with a fist weapon MH and mace OH. when i sim for expertise, i get around 1.14 for expertise when i'm at 26/21 (MH/OH expertise) and 0.6 for 28/23 (Have to call the fist weapon an axe in enhsimgui since it doesn't include "fist" as an option). But I see a lot of well-known top enh orc shamans at 31/26 expertise on wow armory. Would different gear really make that much of a difference? Based on enhsim I was going to forget gemming expertise past 26 on the MH but I would appreciate any thoughts.
Some of them also may be having issues shedding that much expertise as well. See if they are gemmed for that much and if not, then that may be your answer.
#2434SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Sansa View Post
I'm an orc with a fist weapon MH and mace OH. when i sim for expertise, i get around 1.14 for expertise when i'm at 26/21 (MH/OH expertise) and 0.6 for 28/23 (Have to call the fist weapon an axe in enhsimgui since it doesn't include "fist" as an option). But I see a lot of well-known top enh orc shamans at 31/26 expertise on wow armory. Would different gear really make that much of a difference? Based on enhsim I was going to forget gemming expertise past 26 on the MH but I would appreciate any thoughts.
Probably the EP calculation in the second case is going beyond the expertise cap for your offhand. I would recommend you check the EP value you have set for expertise.
#2435SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sansa
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
Probably the EP calculation in the second case is going beyond the expertise cap for your offhand. I would recommend you check the EP value you have set for expertise.
It was true in the 0.66 case, but not in the 1.14 case, and I fixed it so that it would just hit expertise cap on the OH and ran it again, came out to be 1.03. Still doesn't make sense to gem for expertise in that case, so I'm still wondering why some were. I'm just hoping to get a slow axe soon, though.
#2436SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
any info for OSX users? ienhsim (the Cocoa GUI) is still the 3.1 version (should be the same engine of EnhSim 1.7.x)
and the latest EnhSim release doesn't include OSX command line anymore. I tried to dwonload the latest repository revision, but the included executable seems to be out of date, it outputs:

Totem totem_of_electrifying_wind not found.
EnhSim version 1.7.0.3 by Verges: xxxxxxx@gmail.com
#2437SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Alandovos
A preliminary version of the EnhSimGUI is now available from http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/561320/EnhSimGUI.zip. The new items aren't added yet, but some of Rouncer's requested changes are in since they were easy to do at the same time as the code cleanup. This is just the first step to make sure that the source was decompiled and put back together into a functional application.

If people could please test with their existing config files, rawr and shock and awe and let me know how it works. My testing showed that everything worked well except for some odd things from severely out of date files.

Once I've got some feedback I'll get this added to the official release and start working on additional upgrades/fixes from the community.
#2438SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Seems to work but there is kind of a scrunching effect going on where some of the text is overlapping the option windows.


Attaching Screenshots of the Scrunching per request and one of the old view sans scrunchiness.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Scrunched EnhSim.zip (543.0 KB, 55 views)
File Type: zip Normal EnhSim Gui.zip (90.6 KB, 26 views)

Last edited by Rouncer : 08/30/09 at 12:29 AM.
#2439SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Alandovos
Cool that's easy to fix and I'll just put something in for it with the next feature version. I'm just hoping for no crashes or unusual behavior.

Please everyone make sure that the files written out match and provide the same results when run for simulation or EP values. That's the truest test if this whole experiment has been a success.
#2440SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Alandovos
One other issue I discovered for myself. If you cut and paste in from rawr or shock and awe your rotation will be wiped out. This will be fixed in the next trial version I put out (probably tomorrow).
#2441SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Typeronin
Originally Posted by Sansa View Post
I'm an orc with a fist weapon MH and mace OH. when i sim for expertise, i get around 1.14 for expertise when i'm at 26/21 (MH/OH expertise) and 0.6 for 28/23 (Have to call the fist weapon an axe in enhsimgui since it doesn't include "fist" as an option). But I see a lot of well-known top enh orc shamans at 31/26 expertise on wow armory. Would different gear really make that much of a difference? Based on enhsim I was going to forget gemming expertise past 26 on the MH but I would appreciate any thoughts.
Many of those shamans with 31/26 are using gear that is T8 BiS (meaning gear that is best in slot prior to CotC T9 content), which include T8.5 shoulders, T8.5 gloves (or the Yogg 10HM leather belt), Godbane Signet and Caress of Insanity, which give a total of ~140 expertise.

Your sim values mean that gemming expertise at the 26/21 level is still better than gemming AP but at 28/23, you're better off just being slightly short of expertise cap and gemming AP. Therefore, I'm guessing that at 27/22 or so, you're already better off not hitting expertise cap on your offhand and simply going for AP (or haste...).

31/26 is just a relic of pre-3.2. I'm sure that we will see more shaman with un-capped expertise on their off-hand (if possible with a fist/axe and then a mace OH), especially since T9 seems to have less expertise than previous sets.
#2442SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3crazyhammer
New GUI Calculate EP

I copied and pasted my enhsim folder to new test folder, then replace enhsimgui.exe and ran it. Loaded up my config file and hit Simulate, no problems at all. Same numbers as the old enhsimgui.exe but when I hit Calculate EP Values I get the following error message. Yes it is pointing to the correct enhsim.exe executable.

See the end of this message for details on invoking 
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentException: Empty path name is not legal.
   at System.IO.FileStream.Init(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, Int32 rights, Boolean useRights, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, FileOptions options, SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES secAttrs, String msgPath, Boolean bFromProxy)
   at System.IO.FileStream..ctor(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, FileOptions options)
   at System.IO.StreamWriter.CreateFile(String path, Boolean append)
   at System.IO.StreamWriter..ctor(String path, Boolean append, Encoding encoding, Int32 bufferSize)
   at System.IO.StreamWriter..ctor(String path, Boolean append)
   at EnhSimGUI.MainForm.writeConfigFile(String filename)
   at EnhSimGUI.MainForm.mCalcEPValuesButton_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///c:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
EnhSimGUI
    Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
    CodeBase: file:///C:/enhsimtest/EnhSimGUI.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1433 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.mshtml
    Assembly Version: 7.0.3300.0
    Win32 Version: 7.0.3300.0
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC/Microsoft.mshtml/7.0.3300.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.mshtml.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.
My config

### Saved by ALPHA! of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         110
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LL
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.70
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          188.1
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         32.07
oh_crit                         32.07
mh_hit                          11.38
oh_hit                          11.38
mh_expertise_rating             149.00
oh_expertise_rating             149.00
ap                              4026
melee_haste                     16.61
armor_penetration               5.52
str                             135
agi                             845
int                             533
spi                             155
spellpower                      1207
spell_crit                      24.41
spell_hit                       14.22
spell_haste                     12.78
max_mana                        12111
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        40256

totem                           40322

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41398

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            1/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
#2443SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Alandovos
New version: here.

Changes:
  • Fixed the crash when attempting to calculate EP values
  • Fixed scrunched text labels
  • Pasting in from rawr or shock and awe no longer deletes the rotation setup
  • Added names for new trinkets, totems and sets
  • Lower level items removed from the drop downs (item codes still work)

If I don't get any more error reports I'll get it committed and I'll make an official release.
#2444SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Cochice
Okay so I don't think this has been discussed lately, but given the large number of Off-set pieces in ToC with armor pen on them, I started playing around with my ArP numbers a bit. Of course if we had other options, I wouldn't even bother doing this, but since we're probably going to have to deal with a few pieces with ArP on them, I figured I'd see how much it would take to actually make it good. At 50%ish ArP sims higher than AP and at 60%ish it passes haste (for my config at least).

My question is, has anyone tried fully gearing/gemming for it on live? I only checked by bumping up the value in the sim, I haven't set up a gearset w/ it on chardev, only because most of the pieces aren't in the DB yet.

Next week, when heroic is available, the pieces should be in the DB, and I can sim the gearset, but for now, do you guys think gemming it up to 50% is viable once you have a few pieces?

[e] Looks like ArPen is nerfed on the PTR Incoming Rogue Changes Discussion. Post 308. If that's the case, nevermind!

Last edited by Cochice : 09/01/09 at 4:14 AM.
#2445SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
[e] Looks like ArPen is nerfed on the PTR Incoming Rogue Changes Discussion. Post 308. If that's the case, nevermind!
Well, the question is, was it also nerfed for shamans? We already have a different value of haste rating than other classes, maybe Blizzard now does the same for ArP. Which would make sense, considering our damage composition.
#2446SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3iconocclast
Rotation

Since we all know the exactness of the enhanced shaman rotation (priority) , why is it not simply standardized into the Enhsim?
#2447SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by iconocclast View Post
Since we all know the exactness of the enhanced shaman rotation (priority) , why is it not simply standardized into the Enhsim?
Why remove a very useful feature? That would be like setting the AC on all cars to 70 degrees since that is what most people want it set to. Besides that optimum rotation has changed through the course of the expansion and now even includes MW4-LB and even MW3-CL (depending on which totem you are using). For all we know LL could end up moving very high up the priority list when Quaking Earth is fixed and if that feature was removed we would have no way of knowing.

TLDR - Not everything needs to be dumbed down.
#2448SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
TLDR - Not everything needs to be dumbed down.
I am going to risk the infraction because the irony is just too sweet...

With regards to ArP, has anyone heard any more information on this? I am reading a 13% nerf to the total amount of armor penetrated by current ArP ratings. Is this a bug on PTR or intended?
#2449SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3thordinrokbeard
For some reason whenever I hit calculate EP values I always get an error unless I uncheck MW_5 and SW in the priority rotation. It gets an "Enhancement Shaman simulator has stopped working" error. Is there a way to fix this?
#2450SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Typeronin
Is anyone else simming 20/51/0 well? This is with 4 points in Reverb (0.8s reduced cooldown on on shocks) taking a points out of imp. shields, imp. SS, AK and shamanistic focus. I have this coming out almost 50DPS higher.

I don't know how well this works in practice since that appears to be a lot less mana efficiency and while mana isn't an issue at the moment, it might be with this config.
#2451SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
1.8.3.3 is out. This updates only the EnhSim.exe and config.txt files; the GUI has not been updated with this release.

EnhSim - Release: v1.8.3.3

Adding Flare of the Heavens (flare_of_the_heavens, 45518), 10% chance to proc on direct spell damage (shock LB, LO, CL, LvB)
Changing Totem of Quaking Earth to 400 AP proc with 9s ICD
Changing Totem of Electrifying Winds to 70% proc chance.
#2452SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
Preliminary sim using BiS setup says that Quaking Earth sims 13 DPS lower than Electrifying Wind, and this DPS gets worse as LL is moved up the priority list.

DPS with electifying wind went up by about 10 DPS with the latest version of the sim btw.
#2453SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mogadee
I don't think that simming with ToQE will be all that effective as Enhsim does not take into account that we would open with LL>SS>ES then go into the normal priotity list.

If an opening attack sequence could be added or a LL_QE (LL if QE buff is off) to the priority list, then I think we would see its true, if any, gain.
#2454SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Aximous
I doubt on the long term it would be much of a gain since you would get to LL after at worst 4 casts in the opening and after that it's near 100% uptime so you'd loose only very little dps in the beginning.
#2455SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
I'm seeing the same thing with the BiS setup. The ToEW increase is of course due to adjusting the proc chance (70% from 66%).

It looks like haste being weird in action again; for my current gear ToQE is simming about 100 dps increase.
#2456SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
Preliminary sim using BiS setup says that Quaking Earth sims 13 DPS lower than Electrifying Wind, and this DPS gets worse as LL is moved up the priority list.

DPS with electifying wind went up by about 10 DPS with the latest version of the sim btw.
Did you remember to add MW3-CL back into the rotation and to drop MW3-LB when using ToQE? Once ToQE is fixed it is the best option and should be on the BiS set no matter what the sim says. Why? Because not every encounter is a single target stand still fight and ToEW is an awful choice for those encounters since it precludes using chain lightning. If you want your BiS list to have relevancy to the conditions people are facing in the game and to be an aid to people interested in maximizing their performance then you have to take that into account.



Sylvand, would changing the combat time setting to a variable range help to fix some of that haste weirdness? So that each combat session would have a random amount of time in combat based on a range set in the config? It would function similar to latency in the config/GUI and would add another element of realism into the sim's functionality.

Couple of other things I've been thinking about on the realism front would be percentage of time in melee range and a multiple target option. Not sure how to determine a percentage of time in melee range without someone coding a mod that would track the percentage of time in melee range per combat period but the multiple target option shouldn't be too hard to incorporate.

Last edited by Rouncer : 09/02/09 at 1:21 PM.
#2457SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Did you remember to add MW3-CL back into the rotation and to drop MW3-LB when using ToQE? Once ToQE is fixed it is the best option and should be on the BiS set no matter what the sim says. Why? Because not every encounter is a single target stand still fight and ToEW is an awful choice for those encounters since it precludes using chain lightning. If you want your BiS list to have relevancy to the conditions people are facing in the game and to be an aid to people interested in maximizing their performance then you have to take that into account.



Sylvand, would changing the combat time setting to a variable range help to fix some of that haste weirdness? So that each combat session would have a random amount of time in combat based on a range set in the config? It would function similar to latency in the config/GUI and would add another element of realism into the sim's functionality.

Couple of other things I've been thinking about on the realism front would be percentage of time in melee range and a multiple target option. Not sure how to determine a percentage of time in melee range without someone coding a mod that would track the percentage of time in melee range per combat period but the multiple target option shouldn't be too hard to incorporate.
I'll play around with variable fight intervals. In theory I could add an optional parameter for the range/etc. and whoever is maintaining the GUI could add it in somewhere. It's not obvious to me right now that this is going to fix any variance issues, but I'll see.

As far as melee range etc., multi-target (for magma totem and chain lightning) is probably feasible, anything else is probably beyond the scope of what I can really commit. As you mention it's a very open ended problem; potentially it would be something to do for jEnhSim.
#2458SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Did you remember to add MW3-CL back into the rotation and to drop MW3-LB when using ToQE? Once ToQE is fixed it is the best option and should be on the BiS set no matter what the sim says. Why? Because not every encounter is a single target stand still fight and ToEW is an awful choice for those encounters since it precludes using chain lightning. If you want your BiS list to have relevancy to the conditions people are facing in the game and to be an aid to people interested in maximizing their performance then you have to take that into account.
Rouncer, I did in fact remember to do this and MW3/4_CL simmed lower than MW3_LB whilst using the ToQE by about 20 DPS.

As for your argument relating to the instant BiS status of ToQE because it allows you to use CL, it sounds suspiciously like your argument that Cat's Swiftness is the instant BiS boots enchant because some encounters require you to run between targets; the similarity being that they are both based on innacurate assumptions (the TTT still needs to be updated on that btw). Let's break this down further:

We first need to ask whether or not CL is part of an optimal DPS rotation. At face value, this does not seem to be the case as MW3/4_CL sims lower than MW3_LB with both the enh and the ele totems. If the sim is accurate on this front and there are no unexplored talent/roation setups available, we can then say that CL holds no value for us on single target DPS encounters.

We then need to ask 'how many encounters does CL provide superior DPS for?' Since this is a BiS list for T9 content, it makes sense to limit ourselves to ToC for the purposes of answering this question; this is where a majority of people's raiding time will be spent for the moment. Having completed ToC last night, I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the only encounter that I would use CL on would be Anub'arak, where it is in fact extremely useful. To break it down further:

Beasts- Single target DPS the whole time
Jarraxus- Single target DPS the whole time (ranged kill adds)
Faction Champs- Single target DPS most of the time (there is little point in 'splash damaging' the non-DPS targets)
Twins- Single target DPS the whole time
Anub- Mass aoe.

Therefore, I think it would be fair to say that since the Ele totem provides superior DPS on 4/5 encounters, it is likely to be BiS.

The last step in this would be to calculate the total DPS gained by using the Ele totem throughout a full ToC run vs the DPS lost during Anub due to the fact that you are not deriving any benefit from your totem (you are still going to be casting CL, you just wont be getting any buffs from your totem whilst doing so). I honestly am not inclined to bother with this since all we need do is take into account the very obvious fact that I can of course own both of these totems, and can switch them out as needed. When we are up to Anub, or any other encounter where I am casting a lot of CL, I will simply switch totems.

So no, I do not agree that Quaking Earth is the BiS totem by any stretch as the sim results, the single target nature of most ToC encounters and the fact that I am able to switch totems as I please means that the Ele totem is, in my view, a better overall totem.

I welcome any evidence that demonstrates different findings. If you want your advice to have relevancy to the conditions people are facing in game and to be an aid to people interested in maximizing their performance then you have to able provide accurate evidence to support what you are saying.
#2459SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
So you don't use chain lightning to hit snobalds if they are on people in melee range? Just one example but do what you will it is your thread after all. I just hate that people who are just getting involved in the TC side of the game will take what you post in that thread as gospel and end up hurting their play for it.

How is that Icewalker enchant working out for you on Heroic Ice Howl? I know that encounter is making me think about going back to Cat's Speed and I have Rocket Boots. As for the TTT when you get to be an editor then you can change the section about boot enchants to reflect your poor assumptions. You haven't proven your case to my satisfaction so it doesn't get into the TTT.

By the way, you have an error in your BiS config. You can't have both Mana Spring and Blessing of Wisdom since they won't stack and you might want to think about adding a charge to when the sim will refresh LS (it adds about 10dps even with the loss from the increased oom time).

Last edited by Rouncer : 09/03/09 at 2:16 AM.
#2460SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
My purpose in discussing both Cat's AND this was to reject your assertion that both Cat's and the Enh totem are BiS because of the benefit they provide under certain conditions. I think I manged to prove (in both circumstances) that alternatives (Icewalker and Ele totem) are just as viable, if not more viable, than the alternatives. I was not saying that one is better than the other all the time; only that one is better than the other under certain conditions. In the case of Cat's, I make clear reference to this in my OP to give people the choice; I think it would be useful if the TTT did the same (not to mention that the TTT math is actually incorrect, particularly in it's summary statement).

And thank you for pointing out those errors in the BiS config. I'll fix them up in the next little while.

Edit: Decided to include a note on the OP of the BiS thread that highlights the value of the Enh totem when using CL. Will update soon.
#2461SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
SentinelBorg
It's not just CL. Magma Totem doesn't gain anything from Haste, but it scales great with AP (-> SP), so that's another advantage of ToQE in situations with more then one mob. Also especially in some hardmode fights, you want to use your MW stack to heal sometimes.

The sim is an important tool, but we may not forget, that it only shows one simple situation. The fight against a single boss without interrupts, adds, movement, the need to heal and so on. The moment the fight diverges from this situation, our EP values and so BiS equip may change in reality. That is also the reason why I prefer to gem for crit, instead of haste. Because crit has additional benefits outside the "single boss"-environment, while the difference in the sim's result is rather small.

Last edited by SentinelBorg : 09/04/09 at 4:23 AM.
#2462SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Falcon213
I have been doing some testing to properly quantify the value of haste (as the sim historically has not been very reliable for this stat), and so far my largest discovery is that haste seems to be our best-scaling stat. At what threshold it becomes better than AP I do not know, but we may be experiencing it right now.

This may explain why ToEW sims better than ToQE for the BiS set, despite its much lower uptime.
#2463SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Falcon213 View Post
I have been doing some testing to properly quantify the value of haste (as the sim historically has not been very reliable for this stat), and so far my largest discovery is that haste seems to be our best-scaling stat. At what threshold it becomes better than AP I do not know, but we may be experiencing it right now.

This may explain why ToEW sims better than ToQE for the BiS set, despite its much lower uptime.
This is definitely the reason. With the best in slot gear setup in the other thread long term projections for haste were showing an EP of 2.85ish.
#2464SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
It's like I posted somewhere earlier in this giant thread, it seemed like after reaching like 21-22% unbuffed haste, haste started to become the best stat to stack (in T8.5 equivalent gear, for purposes of other stat weights being regarded in this general percentile).

Perhaps though this only due to the way T8 4 piece is modeled. I'd do some more testing when I have the time.
#2465SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
This is definitely the reason. With the best in slot gear setup in the other thread long term projections for haste were showing an EP of 2.85ish.
I suppose this aligns very closely with my anecdotal experience. Since achieving near BiS towards the end of Ulduar, I began to notice the relative value of BL I was achieving vs other classes. Essentially my DPS would increase significantly more than other classes when I was lusted, which had always made me suspect that haste scaled extremely well for us towards very high levels (40%+).

I would be interested to see the results of further analysis on this.
#2466SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
This is definitely the reason. With the best in slot gear setup in the other thread long term projections for haste were showing an EP of 2.85ish.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I just loaded the BiS config and the only thing I changed is the EP values to better represent our actual current gemming situation.

Attack Power - 80
Crit Rating - 40
Hit Rating - 40
Expertise - 4*
Haste Rating - 40
Spell Power - 46

(* - increased value with new gems doesn't matter for these runs since Exp is worth 0 once over the cap)

Then I ran EP values for 20k hours with these results.

EnhSim version 1.8.3.3

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 6.57486% (172.472 hit rating).
Mh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 3.83441 expertise (31.4325 expertise ra
ting).
Oh expertise + EP range goes past cap by 3.83441 expertise (31.4325 expertise ra
ting).

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      9400.99
ap                        1.00      0.73      9459.73        58.74
crit rating               1.94      1.42      9457.82        56.83
hit rating                1.82      1.33      9454.35        53.36
expertise rating          0.13      0.10      9404.22        3.23
haste rating              1.83      1.34      9454.63        53.64
armor penetration rating  1.91      1.40      9456.97        55.98
spellpower                1.09      0.80      9437.94        36.95
mh dps                    5.30      3.89      9430.16        29.17
oh dps                    2.56      1.88      9415.11        14.12
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.76
intelligence              1.62
spirit                    0.00      0.00      9401.17        0.18
mana                      0.01      0.01      9403.18        2.19
mp5                       0.15      0.11      9403.26        2.27

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.94, HitRating=1.82, HasteRating=1.83
, ExpertiseRating=0.13, ArmorPenetration=1.91, SpellDamage=1.09, MainHandDps=5.3
0, OffHandDps=2.56, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.76, Intellect=1.62, Spirit=0.00, Ma
na=0.01, Mp5=0.15 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.83&dps=5.30&mp5=0.15&mcr
=1.94&odps=2.56&spd=1.09&Agi=1.76&mhit=1.82&Int=1.62&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.91&
Exp=0.13

elapsed simulation time: 280000.00h
elapsed real time: 709.46s
simulation speed: 1420802x
Where is the massive inflation to haste's EP values at high gear levels? The only stat that appears to have had it's value massively inflated by the gear upgrades is Armor Penetration and it is still of less value then straight AP.

EP calculations can easy be skewed by the values utilized so let's try looking at it another way. My current gear shows as generating 7624.43 dps. So what happens if I prioritize haste? Swapping all the yellow slots to 20 haste gems should noticeably increase my dps if haste has more value then the AP and Crit gems I currently use, results 7624.04
dps. Effectively no change whatsoever since there is a variation of at least a couple of dps inherent to the sim.

Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
I suppose this aligns very closely with my anecdotal experience. Since achieving near BiS towards the end of Ulduar, I began to notice the relative value of BL I was achieving vs other classes. Essentially my DPS would increase significantly more than other classes when I was lusted, which had always made me suspect that haste scaled extremely well for us towards very high levels (40%+).

I would be interested to see the results of further analysis on this.
Your anecdotal evidence is flawed since you are neglecting to take into account that when Bloodlusting you are also summoning and lusting your wolves too which is a very large increase in dps by itself.

Last edited by Rouncer : 09/03/09 at 12:10 PM.
#2467SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
There you go with your assumptions again Rouncer. I do not always have my dogs up when I lust/am lusted by another shaman. I am sure my fellow shaman will know the frustration of this all-to-common occurance. Even when my dogs are not out, I still notice that I seem to be deriving significantly more benefit from the haste than other classes.

Of course, I would be the first to admit that my anecdotal experience is not evidence of anything at all. Using a faster-ping service whilst playing with Australians could give me a competitive advantage that is enhanced by the lust, or there could be a million other causes or I could just be imagining things. That is what makes the word 'anecdotal' so great...
#2468SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Farosarg
Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
There you go with your assumptions again Rouncer. I do not always have my dogs up when I lust/am lusted by another shaman. I am sure my fellow shaman will know the frustration of this all-to-common occurance. Even when my dogs are not out, I still notice that I seem to be deriving significantly more benefit from the haste than other classes.

Of course, I would be the first to admit that my anecdotal experience is not evidence of anything at all. Using a faster-ping service whilst playing with Australians could give me a competitive advantage that is enhanced by the lust, or there could be a million other causes or I could just be imagining things. That is what makes the word 'anecdotal' so great...
I'm probably way below your "top end gear" level but for quite a long time I've been observing the exact opposite. I'm benefitting a lot less from bloodlust compared to warriors, ferals and rogues. We talked about it on EU forums some time ago and others had noticed similar behavior and its puzzling to me that you state the exact opposite.

I'm using Worldoflogs parses and I'm familiar with haste behavior on Enhsim. Other explanation would be that I need a good dose of "L2P" and can't benefit the haste like you can.
#2469SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Silverstorm
Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
There you go with your assumptions again Rouncer. I do not always have my dogs up when I lust/am lusted by another shaman. I am sure my fellow shaman will know the frustration of this all-to-common occurance. Even when my dogs are not out, I still notice that I seem to be deriving significantly more benefit from the haste than other classes.
1) Yes, this lack of dogs when heroism is popped happens to me all too frequently. In that case, I generally call the dogs, and pop my own heroism for them. Since the debuff is far longer than the cooldown, and it is cleared if you die, this seems like a reasonable thing to do. I have not simmed this nor done any math at all, but 30% more dog attacks seems worth one GCD from me.

2) In thinking through the benefits of haste, I'm surprised you see this behavior. In my experience during heroism, I'm often waiting on cooldowns to come back up. I know white damage is a significant part of our damage, but it's reasonably similar to ferals (which I also play), and I tend to get (even more) energy limited on my feral. The benefits I see are reduced GCD so we can get through all cooldowns easily, faster white swings lead to more MW procs, and increased attack speed from dogs. Am I missing something significant? Might this be RNG playing nice for you, and you just don't recall the "normal" times?
#2470SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Vespasian View Post
There you go with your assumptions again Rouncer. I do not always have my dogs up when I lust/am lusted by another shaman. I am sure my fellow shaman will know the frustration of this all-to-common occurance. Even when my dogs are not out, I still notice that I seem to be deriving significantly more benefit from the haste than other classes.

Of course, I would be the first to admit that my anecdotal experience is not evidence of anything at all. Using a faster-ping service whilst playing with Australians could give me a competitive advantage that is enhanced by the lust, or there could be a million other causes or I could just be imagining things. That is what makes the word 'anecdotal' so great...
Like the person right above me stated, during our time in Ulduar they fixed Bloodlust/Sated so that now it functions just like Heroism/Exhausted has all along. This means we can now use our lust even when we are sated so there is no reason not to be able to lust your puppies on all of their summons. If you coordinate with the other shaman in the raid this is a nice way to get a dps boost on longer encounters, especially if it is another Enhancement shaman since then you can trade lusts on the doggies so that they are lusted on both summons. If it is a Resto or an Elemental Shaman ask them to either wait for you to call the lust on vent or to give a 3 count when the raid leader calls for it to give you a chance to get them summoned, then you can lust a second summon with yours.
#2471SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sansa
I'm having issues with the precision/accuracy or what-have-you of the sim. I know this came up a few pages back, but I'm finding that whenever I sim the same setup, I see a difference of like 400 dps, which seems unreasonably large. I am simming 10000h but it doesn't seem to help. For instance, sometimes I sim the same setup and get 7600 dps, and other times i get 7200, give or take. The difference is big enough that it's really cutting into the usefulness of the sim for me, as I can't trust EP calculations and comparing talent changes and glyph changes becomes very unreliable, or at the very least tedious (the lower end, 7200 dps, seems to be incorrect, but in order to find when a gear change or talent change benefits me, I have to run the sim multiple times until it is simming the high end instead of the -400 end.. and even then I don't think I can trust to differences of like 10-20 dps increase). I did not have this problem when I used the sim until 3.2 or so (and I am using 1.8.3.3). Any advice?
#2472SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Make sure the GUI is pointing to the correct exe file*. Beyond that I have no idea why you would be seeing such variation when running the same configurations.

Just ran 2x10k hour sim runs showing 7640.12 and then 7640.63 so I think it is something at your end and not an problem intrinsic to the sim.



*the path in the GUI will stay on the previous version even when opened from the new folder so make sure to update the path when you upgrade the sim. You can also check the top line of your output to make sure it is using the correct version.

Last edited by Rouncer : 09/08/09 at 10:21 AM.
#2473SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Zensai
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
So you don't use chain lightning to hit snobalds if they are on people in melee range? Just one example but do what you will it is your thread after all. I just hate that people who are just getting involved in the TC side of the game will take what you post in that thread as gospel and end up hurting their play for it.

How is that Icewalker enchant working out for you on Heroic Ice Howl? I know that encounter is making me think about going back to Cat's Speed and I have Rocket Boots. As for the TTT when you get to be an editor then you can change the section about boot enchants to reflect your poor assumptions. You haven't proven your case to my satisfaction so it doesn't get into the TTT.

By the way, you have an error in your BiS config. You can't have both Mana Spring and Blessing of Wisdom since they won't stack and you might want to think about adding a charge to when the sim will refresh LS (it adds about 10dps even with the loss from the increased oom time).
Everytime I've used CL they never jump far enough to hit the snobalds. You don't need a speed boot enchant for H: Icehowl, but it does help. I've ended up switching to it because my server seems to be getting laggier.
#2474SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Zensai View Post
Everytime I've used CL they never jump far enough to hit the snobalds. You don't need a speed boot enchant for H: Icehowl, but it does help. I've ended up switching to it because my server seems to be getting laggier.
They don't seem to jump from him to the snobolds but they will jump from the snobolds to each other and back to him.

As for runspeed, I switched to my runspeed pair last night over my rocket boots to help with the charge but also for another reason. Both the worms and Icehowl have knockbacks. Icehowl's can be ranged by being right on the edge of melee range but the worms can't and there is probably 5-6 seconds of movement for each knockback. Based on the math we have if you can output 7500 dps in a perfect situation (ie the sim) then if there is 10 seconds of movement in a 5 minute encounter runspeed is a better option then Icewalker or any other enchant. With Icehowl getting stunned and increasing that dps number significantly, along with all the knockbacks, it makes it so that runspeed is more valuable then anything else even if you can get out of range of his charges without it.
#2475SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sansa
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Make sure the GUI is pointing to the correct exe file*. Beyond that I have no idea why you would be seeing such variation when running the same configurations.

Just ran 2x10k hour sim runs showing 7640.12 and then 7640.63 so I think it is something at your end and not an problem intrinsic to the sim.



*the path in the GUI will stay on the previous version even when opened from the new folder so make sure to update the path when you upgrade the sim. You can also check the top line of your output to make sure it is using the correct version.
Definitely pointing to the correct *exe. I have noticed that the path will stay on the previous version even when the previous folder has been deleted. I'm not sure what's going on either, then.. it's very frustrating, because literally I'm running "simulate" with the exact same setup, not changing a thing, and getting numbers like 7213 and then the next one 7545.
#2476SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3frozndevl
Originally Posted by Sansa View Post
Definitely pointing to the correct *exe. I have noticed that the path will stay on the previous version even when the previous folder has been deleted. I'm not sure what's going on either, then.. it's very frustrating, because literally I'm running "simulate" with the exact same setup, not changing a thing, and getting numbers like 7213 and then the next one 7545.
Make sure you aren't just hitting the combat log output instead of simulate. The combat log will give you the fast result, but will give variation.
#2477SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
WF really that sensitive to weapon speed?

I was lucky enough (or so I thought) to get a [Hellscream Slicer] which I thought would replace my [Golden Saronite Dragon]. When I ran EhnSim to be sure it turned out to be less DPS by around 100 DPS (I can post my results directly from EhnSim but I didn't think it was necessary).

I got similar results for placing it in the OH (my current OH is [Caress of Insanity]) which didn't suprise me since FT depends so heavily on weapon speed. I wasn't expecting it to be a DPS drop in the MH slot though because while I know weapon speed affects WF because of the 3 sec CD I didn't think going from a 2.7 speed to a 2.6 speed would outweigh the increase in weapon damage from the axe.

Has anyone else been in the same situation and gotten the same results I did? And if WF is indeed that sensitive to 0.1 increase in weapon speed should I not expect to replace my MH or OH with anything but the item level 258 version of [Hellscream Slicer]?
#2478SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
Originally Posted by Brynmor View Post
I was lucky enough (or so I thought) to get a [Hellscream Slicer] which I thought would replace my [Golden Saronite Dragon]. When I ran EhnSim to be sure it turned out to be less DPS by around 100 DPS (I can post my results directly from EhnSim but I didn't think it was necessary).

I got similar results for placing it in the OH (my current OH is [Caress of Insanity]) which didn't suprise me since FT depends so heavily on weapon speed. I wasn't expecting it to be a DPS drop in the MH slot though because while I know weapon speed affects WF because of the 3 sec CD I didn't think going from a 2.7 speed to a 2.6 speed would outweigh the increase in weapon damage from the axe.

Has anyone else been in the same situation and gotten the same results I did? And if WF is indeed that sensitive to 0.1 increase in weapon speed should I not expect to replace my MH or OH with anything but the item level 258 version of [Hellscream Slicer]?
Yes, only the Heroic version beats GSD/CoI. Weapon speed is way more important to use, than weapon DPS. The 2.7 speed axe from Onyxia may be an upgrade, but that will depend on the strength of the proc, because the loss of stats will be quite heavy.
#2479SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quirk
example of super-inflated haste value

simulation_time 6000
simulation_time_combatlog 30
combat_length 6
report_count 80
threads 2
min_lag 185
max_lag 215
simulate_mana 1

ep_precision 2
ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 200
ep_crit_rating 30
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 4
ep_haste_rating 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 30
ep_spellpower 150
ep_dps 7.5
ep_mana 250
ep_spirit 150
ep_mp5 20

mh_auto_attack 1
oh_auto_attack 1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd 0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd 0
bloodlust_casters 1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets 0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left 15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left 4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active 1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left 0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left 0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left 750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left 3000

rotation_priority_count 9
rotation_priority1 SW
rotation_priority2 SR
rotation_priority3 MW5_LB
rotation_priority4 SS
rotation_priority5 ES_SS
rotation_priority6 MT
rotation_priority7 ES
rotation_priority8 LL
rotation_priority9 LS

miss 8.0
dodge 6.5
glancing 24.0
armor 10645
spell_miss 17.0
nature_resistance 0
fire_resistance 0
frost_resistance 0
arcane_resistance 0
shadow_resistance 0

armor_debuff_major 20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor 5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff 4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff 20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat 688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier 99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff 5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff 5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff 10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
haste_buff 3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase 3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff 3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff 52/52
agi_and_strength_buff 178/178
intellect_buff 60/60

replenishment 1
water_shield 0
mana_spring_totem 1
blessing_of_wisdom 1
judgement_of_wisdom 1

flask_elixir flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir -
potion potion_of_speed
food fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon ###
###############################################################################

race draenei
mh_speed 2.7
oh_speed 2.7
mh_dps 188.1
oh_dps 178.9
mh_crit 29.32
oh_crit 29.32
mh_hit 10.46
oh_hit 10.46
mh_expertise_rating 144
oh_expertise_rating 144
ap 4937
melee_haste 17.72
armor_penetration 5.52
str 147
agi 870
int 553
spi 171
spellpower 1481
spell_crit 21.48
spell_hit 13.08
spell_haste 13.63
max_mana 12411
mp5 0

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue flametongue

mh_enchant berserking
oh_enchant berserking

mh_weapon -
oh_weapon -

trinket1 dark_matter
trinket2 deaths_verdict

totem totem_of_electrifying_wind

set_bonus1 worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2 -
set_bonus3 -

metagem chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant -
cloak_enchant -

glyph_major1 windfury_weapon
glyph_major2 feral_spirit
glyph_major3 stormstrike

glyph_minor1 -
glyph_minor2 -
glyph_minor3 -

ancestral_knowledge 2/5
improved_shields 2/3
mental_dexterity 3/3
shamanistic_focus 0/1
flurry 5/5
elemental_weapons 3/3
unleashed_rage 3/3
weapon_mastery 3/3
dual_wield_specialization 3/3
mental_quickness 3/3
improved_stormstrike 2/2
static_shock 3/3
maelstrom_weapon 5/5

convection 0/5
concussion 5/5
call_of_flame 3/3
elemental_devastation 3/3
reverberation 0/5
elemental_focus 0/1
elemental_fury 0/5
call_of_thunder 0/1
unrelenting_storm 0/3
elemental_precision 0/3
lightning_mastery 0/5
elemental_oath 0/2
lightning_overload 0/5
lava_flows 0/3
storm_earth_and_fire 0/3
shamanism 0/5
I'm seeing an EP value of ~2.87 for haste with this setup. To bring my other stats 'in line' for item comparison I drop expertise to 120/120 and spell hit to 12.99, but leaving them at the aforementioned values yields the same haste inflation.
#2480SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Brynmor View Post
I was lucky enough (or so I thought) to get a [Hellscream Slicer] which I thought would replace my [Golden Saronite Dragon]. When I ran EhnSim to be sure it turned out to be less DPS by around 100 DPS (I can post my results directly from EhnSim but I didn't think it was necessary).

I got similar results for placing it in the OH (my current OH is [Caress of Insanity]) which didn't suprise me since FT depends so heavily on weapon speed. I wasn't expecting it to be a DPS drop in the MH slot though because while I know weapon speed affects WF because of the 3 sec CD I didn't think going from a 2.7 speed to a 2.6 speed would outweigh the increase in weapon damage from the axe.

Has anyone else been in the same situation and gotten the same results I did? And if WF is indeed that sensitive to 0.1 increase in weapon speed should I not expect to replace my MH or OH with anything but the item level 258 version of [Hellscream Slicer]?
It's because when you use the GSD and CoI your weapon speeds are synced. In the sim this allows two hits to only eat one flurry charge when they sync up. This was fixed in a game a while ago but the bug persists in the sim. Your best bet is to knock the speed of one weapon down by .01 and re-sim.

Even doing this GSD is still about 10 DPS better for me.
#2481SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Vespasian
Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
It's because when you use the GSD and CoI your weapon speeds are synced. In the sim this allows two hits to only eat one flurry charge when they sync up. This was fixed in a game a while ago but the bug persists in the sim. Your best bet is to knock the speed of one weapon down by .01 and re-sim.

Even doing this GSD is still about 10 DPS better for me.
I have suspected that the DPS difference might have been a sim error. Is anyone able to confirm that this is the case? If so, would the fix be difficult Sylvand?
#2482SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Saabu
I can't find an option in enhsim to sync potion of speed with heroism (like it does for trinkets) to test out when is the best time to use it on dps burn phases. I have been using during heroism but wanted to test.
#2483SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ehanoro
Small problem I am having, which is probably my own fault, but I am no longer getting a Lootrank.com address after simming ep values, it reads 'Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt.' anyone have a solution to this?
#2484SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Schwolop
It could be file permissions. At least once I've downloaded an EnhSim archive (zip file) which has read-only permissions on that file (and possibly others).
#2485SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Watipah
Patch.3.2.2 Flameshock, changes for enhancement rotation?

Flame Shock: The duration of all ranks has been increased by 6 seconds
Glyph of Flame Shock: Redesigned. This glyph now makes Flame Shock periodic damage able to be critical strikes.


I'd say that the enhancement rotation will include flameshock after this 50% dmg buff per use, every three shocks. It would be very interesting to play with this in the enhsim, I'd be pleased if you could add this soon.

It's speculative, but perhaps the new flameshock glyph could be worth it for enhancement shamans too. The 4-piece t9-setboni could be even better with it, reverbation would probably fall behind improved shields (18 sec flameshock duration), and if the glyph is better then the wf/ls glyph, perhaps krit (and ap) become better stats again?
#2486SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Derfal
Originally Posted by Ehanoro View Post
Small problem I am having, which is probably my own fault, but I am no longer getting a Lootrank.com address after simming ep values, it reads 'Could not open enhsim_ep_exports.txt.' anyone have a solution to this?
the MS-DOS BATCH FILE -start_ep_calculation - went awol for a few rev's.

you can either copy it from a previuos release into your current one.

However unless i've missed an update then it's included in the current release - i'm using 1.8.3.3
#2487SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Puza
What is the correct forum to list a problem I am having with Enhsim accessing the online database, I'm getting an "unterminated string constant" error".

The main website (enhsim.wikidot.com) seems to have a legacy of unanswered querys dating back to April/May - was wondering if this site still valid?
#2488SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Axaeron
First time poster... I'm going to take a stab at Saabu's question here... I'm not sure this is really the correct place for the question, but if my answer is accurate, that's probably the reason why the Potion of Speed option described isn't implemented in EnhSim.


Originally Posted by Saabu View Post
I can't find an option in enhsim to sync potion of speed with heroism (like it does for trinkets) to test out when is the best time to use it on dps burn phases. I have been using during heroism but wanted to test.

I've been operating under the assumption that it really doesn't matter when you use a Potion of Speed. No matter what your current haste level is, 500 extra haste rating will always net the same amount of extra weapon swings.

Here's some math copied and pasted from my guild's forum... Some of it may seem out of context since it's pulled from a larger post about haste and its effects.





THE MATH
For this explanation, I will introduce a new metric: "Extra Swings per Minute," denoted ESM. It is equal to 60((1/WSf)-(1/WSi)) and can be interpreted as the amount of extra white melee attack you will receive per minute when going from WSi (Initial Weapon Speed) to WSf (Final Weapon Speed).

On the surface, Haste seems very bland and predictable. This is not the case. It also seems intuitive to say "10% Haste will reduce my swing speed by 10%." This is also not true for all values. Here is a quick example:

Assume 2.60 Weapon Speed. Ten percent of 2.60 is 0.260. So, does 10% Haste drop the swing speed to 2.60-0.26 = 2.34? Nope. Using the haste equation: 2.6/(1+0.1) = 2.364, a reduction of 0.236, not 0.260.

Ok, so now for the linear claim.

Assume again we are working with a 2.60 speed weapon. As shown above, 10% haste reduces the swing speed by 0.236 seconds.

Now assume we have 20% haste, rather than 10%. Swing speed is brought to 2.167, a reduction of 0.433. So, using 10%, for each 1% haste we reduced our swing speed by 0.236/10 = .0236. At 20% haste, for each 1% we reduced our swing speed by 0.433/20 = .0216.

As you can see, it seems that the haste at the 10% level has given us .0236-.0216 = .002 more benefit for each 1%. As you can imagine, even with these small numbers, the gap gets larger for larger values of haste.

So, were the first 10% actually "better" than the next 10%? No.

Applying the ESM treatment, we see that:

10% Level
ESM = 60((1/2.364)-(1/2.60))
ESM@10 = 4.2857

20% Level
ESM = 60((1/2.167)-(1/2.60))
ESM@20 = 8.5714

So, we normalize both:
(ESM@10)/10 = 0.42857
(ESM@20)/20 = 0.42857

At both the 10% Haste level and the 20% Haste level, each % of Haste yields the same amount of extra swings per minute.


So, even though we saw a smaller reduction in swing speed at the 20% level than at the 10% level, which suggest haste gets "worse" as you get more, we can see that is not the case. Haste will always yield the same amount of extra swings per minute, regardless of how much you have.






Ok, so if the above math is correct (which I think it is), an extra 500 haste rating will cause you to gain the same amount of white melee swings inside and outside of the effects of Heroism/Bloodlust. If you have some other "on use" types of things that would add value to white melee attacks, such as AP or ArP trinkets that you use during Heroism/Bloodlust, the Potion of Speed would be better to use when those other effects are active.
#2489SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Derfal
Originally Posted by Puza View Post
What is the correct forum to list a problem I am having with Enhsim accessing the online database, I'm getting an "unterminated string constant" error".

The main website (enhsim.wikidot.com) seems to have a legacy of unanswered querys dating back to April/May - was wondering if this site still valid?

Tukez is also AWOL.

Try here.

EnhSim - Issue Tracker
#2490SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Schwolop
For Mac users, Sekhem of Feathermoon has written a Cocoa version of the EnhSim GUI. Available from ienhsim - Project Hosting on Google Code. You can leave comments at the original thread on the shaman forums.

At least it'll tide you over until jEnhSim arrives...
#2491SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Puza View Post
What is the correct forum to list a problem I am having with Enhsim accessing the online database, I'm getting an "unterminated string constant" error".

The main website (enhsim.wikidot.com) seems to have a legacy of unanswered querys dating back to April/May - was wondering if this site still valid?
No the site is no longer valid. I've made a new post on both the bugs and development pages there to clarify that and to direct users to the new site.

Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
any info for OSX users? ienhsim (the Cocoa GUI) is still the 3.1 version (should be the same engine of EnhSim 1.7.x)
and the latest EnhSim release doesn't include OSX command line anymore. I tried to dwonload the latest repository revision, but the included executable seems to be out of date, it outputs:

Totem totem_of_electrifying_wind not found.
EnhSim version 1.7.0.3 by Verges: xxxxxxx@gmail.com
I'll review the code on the website and see if we can't get a package for patch 3.3.2 that contains the 3.3.2 windows & mac versions (ie: has ArP nerf & FS buff included) as well as the new GUI following Alanvandos' excellent work on updating the GUI.


BTW all I'm back and will be continuing to play WoW and participate in these and other forums. I've updated ShockAndAwe & Rawr since my return too.

Last edited by Levva : 09/17/09 at 7:33 AM.
#2492SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Did you remember to add MW3-CL back into the rotation and to drop MW3-LB when using ToQE? Once ToQE is fixed it is the best option and should be on the BiS set no matter what the sim says. Why? Because not every encounter is a single target stand still fight and ToEW is an awful choice for those encounters since it precludes using chain lightning. If you want your BiS list to have relevancy to the conditions people are facing in the game and to be an aid to people interested in maximizing their performance then you have to take that into account.



Sylvand, would changing the combat time setting to a variable range help to fix some of that haste weirdness? So that each combat session would have a random amount of time in combat based on a range set in the config? It would function similar to latency in the config/GUI and would add another element of realism into the sim's functionality.

Couple of other things I've been thinking about on the realism front would be percentage of time in melee range and a multiple target option. Not sure how to determine a percentage of time in melee range without someone coding a mod that would track the percentage of time in melee range per combat period but the multiple target option shouldn't be too hard to incorporate.
To follow this up we could go the way Rawr is going and that is to code a Boss Module. So that you select a boss to fight. This then modifies a lot of base parameters only some of which we can control in the sim at present.

At present we can control Boss AC, resistances, miss, dodge rates etc. What it would be useful to add is things like percentage time behind boss, percentage movement time, percentage inactive time (stuns, silences etc). This would allow the sim to be more dynamic and account for the more "normal" boss encounters.

Even if we don't go for a full scale "select a boss" design. Adding percent time behind boss, percentage time moving, and percentage inactive time, would significantly improve the sim.

NB. percentage time moving would allow testing of boot speed enchant effectiveness.

[e] Hmm no-one made a post between my last post and this one. Hopefully common sense prevails and the five hour gap between posts is seen as reasonable and no infraction is required. Given that this post is entirely unrelated to the prior post and another edit of the last post to add a separate quote block would risk an infraction for too many quote blocks
#2493SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Levva I've been thinking about the percentage of time on target and how to integrate it into the Sim and I think the first thing would be to code a mod to actually gather that information. Which may not be that hard to do for something like a boss fight where the aggro pulse stays constant so there is no leaving of combat.

If we had a mod that used something like the rangedisplay library's to track the time in melee range then we would have a real value to use inside the sim.

(in case I'm not being obvious enough, would you mind trying to code something like that for people to use?)
#2494SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
If boss-specific issues like amount of time spent attacking from behind, in movement, stunned, casting hex or wind shear*, or other non-dps time are considered, what about other boss-specific issues? Most encounters provide buffs or debuffs that radically affect damage. The sim as currently implemented works well in part because it ignores all of these factors. A sim or model that includes settings for every factor involved in every current-tier boss fight would certainly be an upgrade, but that seems like significant added work.

As a side note, even the best sim can't account for some factors. If a run speed enchant helps me run out of a damaging effect faster, it's valuable for reasons aside from increasing dps time.

* I know wind shear isn't on gcd or shock cd, but it takes personal reaction time to incorporate.
#2495SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
The idea is to optimize your available gear for the encounter. For enhancement it would be things like using more AP and Crit for fights where there isn't a lot of time on target to maximize the damage output when you are in melee range versus selecting for more haste when the fight just revolves around standing still and straight dpsing.

Then there are fights like Auriaya (if that had been a difficult encounter) where you are in front of the boss being parried the whole time. If the sim could be set up to evaluate that set of conditions and give EP/optimized gear based on it you might end up using say a banked item with more expertise if it would end up increasing your performance for that specific encounter. It wasn't really a hard encounter so it wasn't worth the effort but if say Algalon utilized a similar mechanic so parries needed to be taken into account, with it being a dps race on many levels, it might have been worth optimizing your set for that specific encounter to that degree.
#2496SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EvilGopher
Sim not updating properly?

So I've been trying to update my simulator so that I can sim using the new coliseum totems and set bonus. Downloaded the latest version (v1.8.3.3) from the proper site. Extracted to a folder and when I open it up it doesn't have the options to select the new totems/set bonuses. Looking at the sample config file I see that those are supposed to be options but I can't for the life of me figure out why its not showing. Even loading the sample config it doesn't want to show the new stuff.

This is probably something stupid I can't figure out but until then I can't sim anything properly. Someone please help!
#2497SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
Originally Posted by EvilGopher View Post
So I've been trying to update my simulator so that I can sim using the new coliseum totems and set bonus. Downloaded the latest version (v1.8.3.3) from the proper site. Extracted to a folder and when I open it up it doesn't have the options to select the new totems/set bonuses. Looking at the sample config file I see that those are supposed to be options but I can't for the life of me figure out why its not showing. Even loading the sample config it doesn't want to show the new stuff.

This is probably something stupid I can't figure out but until then I can't sim anything properly. Someone please help!
Check out post 2443 in this thread. You can download the new Enhancesim GUI which allows you to select the appropriate totems/trinkets etc.
#2498SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Frontier
Did some testing to make sure the tier 9 four piece bonus was working and noticed that [Death's Verdict] proced Paragon from Flame Shock DoT tics. Took a quick glance over the EnhSim code for the trinket and it may not be set up to proc from the periodic damage. It is listed as MeleeDamage and SpellDirectDamage. I'm unsure if SpellDirectDamage includes DoT tics or not within the sim.

Ultimately I don't see this being a huge fluctuation in dps within the sim, but you may want to double check the implementation of the trinket for accuracy's sake.
#2499SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Typeronin
Shouldn't be surprising. The tooltip says "when you deal damage", which includes all spells.
#2500SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Levva I've been thinking about the percentage of time on target and how to integrate it into the Sim and I think the first thing would be to code a mod to actually gather that information. Which may not be that hard to do for something like a boss fight where the aggro pulse stays constant so there is no leaving of combat.

If we had a mod that used something like the rangedisplay library's to track the time in melee range then we would have a real value to use inside the sim.

(in case I'm not being obvious enough, would you mind trying to code something like that for people to use?)
Can you clarify what the "rangedisplay library's" is I cannot see a function to tell your range from a mob. If I can test out some of these things I could add some stats to ShockAndAwe debug output. ie: user could turn on stats test, and it would output results on exit from combat.

A more advanced option would be for me to finally implement the stats frame, to show average & max AP, SP, crit, etc (stats) as well as average & max damage for each abilty (SS, LL, WF, LB etc). Adding in melee range% to this as well as behind boss% would be useful.
#2501SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Horac
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Can you clarify what the "rangedisplay library's" is I cannot see a function to tell your range from a mob. If I can test out some of these things I could add some stats to ShockAndAwe debug output. ie: user could turn on stats test, and it would output results on exit from combat.
I think he is referring to range display as used by addons like Deadly Boss Mods. It supports player to player range for sure and may include support for player to mob. There is no Blizzard provided api and ghostcrawler is on record saying that none will be made available (stated during the 3.2 patch when players were trying to test the jump range changes to chain heal). The addon community may have developed a library file (similar to heallibcomm) so that various mods using a rangefinder will be consistent with one another when estimating range for the player. DBM is probably the best place to start looking for range finder information.
#2502SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
This is the mod I was talking about RangeDisplay - Addons - Curse

It works by checking spells and abilities to see if you are in range for them to be used and then gives you an estimate of the range to the target. Since melee range is defined under those conditions - Attack button reds out when you are outside of melee range - I was thinking that could somehow be used to determine the percentage of time in melee range while in combat.

This is the specific Library that mod uses, LibRangeCheck-2.0 - WoW AddOns - WowAce.com
#2503SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I've looked and its simpler than that the Blizzard API has a call

IsSpellInRange("spellname", "unit")
So I can simply use

IsSpellInRange("Stormstrike", "target")
to see if you are in melee range. How frequently to check is typically the issue, as the more frequently checked the more accurate but the more you could possibly add lag if its more than once every 100ms. I'm also thinking that we need only calculate for in range of WorldBossOnly targets. ie: if you are on an add it doesn't count? Or should it be in melee range of your current target whatever that is (presumably as long as current target is hostile).

Any other conditions that would need to be satisfied?

[E] V4.50 of ShockAndAwe now out with lots of new features.
#2504SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Not being an alchemist I've never needed the info. However someone asked me today if EnhSim supports the buff to flasks that alchemists get and if so how do you tell the sim you have that buff?

If this isn't supported can we add it please.
#2505SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3maelfus
While I was an alchemist, I just added the extra AP under the raid AP buff. It was kinda of annoying, but you really only had to do it once. It would be nice for new users to have a little more easily accessible option for that.
#2506SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quaglia
Edit:
delete please.
#2507SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mr Tazza
Originally Posted by Watipah View Post
Flame Shock: The duration of all ranks has been increased by 6 seconds
Glyph of Flame Shock: Redesigned. This glyph now makes Flame Shock periodic damage able to be critical strikes.


I'd say that the enhancement rotation will include flameshock after this 50% dmg buff per use, every three shocks. It would be very interesting to play with this in the enhsim, I'd be pleased if you could add this soon.

It's speculative, but perhaps the new flameshock glyph could be worth it for enhancement shamans too. The 4-piece t9-setboni could be even better with it, reverbation would probably fall behind improved shields (18 sec flameshock duration), and if the glyph is better then the wf/ls glyph, perhaps krit (and ap) become better stats again?
I'm interested in this.

Lvl80 TDummy, no buffs other than FT on offhand, 4t9, SS up for ES numbers.

AVG ES hit: 2520
FS hit: 1107 + 394 dotx4. 2683 total

25% unbuffed spell crit chance brings these to

ES: 3150
FS: 1384 + 394x4 = 2960

In 3.2.2 this would be

ES: 3150
FS: 1384 + 394x6 = 3748

And adding FS glyph

ES: 3150
FS: 1384 + 2955 = 4339

This should go further in favor of FS in a raid as ticks get full SP coefficient.

What I'm not able to calculate is FS glyph dps in comparison to WF/Feral Spirit and how much Reverberation hurts a FS rotation.

EDIT:

Just noticed there's a better calc in the 3.2 changes thread, sorry
#2508SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by SentinelBorg View Post
Great to hear that. About the cooldown, it would probably be a good addition for Shock and Awe, to add a "Lava Lash when no Totem Buff is up"-Priority item.
For example, you usually have MW_5 -> ES_SS -> SS -> ES -> LL. Now we could enhance that to MW_5 -> ES_SS -> SS -> LL_noBuffUp -> ES -> LL. Of course we would also need the same thing in the Sim, to test whether it is an dps increase at all.
Could we add LL_QE to the EnhSim priority possibilities with the definition that if there is less than 6 seconds left on Volcanic Fury buff (the buff that Totem of Quaking Earth gives) then use LL if off cooldown. I will then add it an a possible option to the priorities in ShockAndAwe.

It would be useful however to have testing of this added priority to see if it makes a noticeable difference and where in the priority list it should be.

Whilst I'm posting I'll ask the question about the extended time on Flame Shock, I may have missed it whilst I was on holiday but does FS dot now crit as well or is that Elemental Shaman only? Has anyone tested whether adding FS into priority helps at all given its longer uptime. If so where should it go. I'd imagine somewhere around ES at present perhaps 1 step above ES, ie: FS if debuff run out (or almost run out?), next ES.

That would suggest...

MW5_LB, ES_SS, SS, FS, ES, LL, MT, totems or possibly
MW5_LB, LL_QE, ES_SS, SS, FS, ES, LL, MT, totems if we include LL_QE? Guessing based on LL_QE giving 80% chance of 400 AP and 120 SP more = boost to SS, ES, FS, and MT.

Can someone sanity check the CD times too please ie: if I'm adding the test to ShockAndAwe it should be LL if < X seconds on Volcanic Fury buff. I'm taking this to be 6 seconds, ie: refresh buff if it will run out before LL off cooldown, Similarly what would be the FS one refresh buff if < X seconds left on it. This is trickier as refreshing loses tics thus loses damage.
#2509SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kellaris
Flame shock has had its duration increased by 6 seconds, and it can be glyphed to be able to crit. It would be interesting to see how that would stack up, especially with t9 4-piece, and possibly swapping that glyph for the WF glyph.
#2510SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
FS beats ES-SS provided you are getting the full duration of the debuff (only refreshing FS with 1 tick or less remaining). Early indications are that the FS glyph will beat WF and LS for the third glyph slot but until the Sim gets updated it's still mostly conjecture.
#2511SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mogadee
Delete - Rouncer beat me.
#2512SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Oh and we should also ensure the sim supports the Blessing of Sanctuary change...

Blessing of Sanctuary: This blessing now grants 10% strength in addition to its current effects. Also, the strength and stamina bonuses from this blessing will no longer be lost when Blessing of Kings is removed.
This could give another AP boost to Enhancement, not a huge one but hey it makes the odd strength ring more bearable. Its not clear but does it stack with Blessing of Kings? Anyone tested it? I've not been on the PTR for this patch due to holidays.
#2513SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Oh and we should also ensure the sim supports the Blessing of Sanctuary change...



This could give another AP boost to Enhancement, not a huge one but hey it makes the odd strength ring more bearable. Its not clear but does it stack with Blessing of Kings? Anyone tested it? I've not been on the PTR for this patch due to holidays.
They don't stack. Kings gives 10% all stats. Sancturary gives 10% stam and strength, 3% less damage and mana when you block or parry. But the stam and str parts don't stack. The notes are referencing a bug where if you had both Sanct and Kings and Kings was removed you would lose the portion that overlapped between them.
#2514SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
They don't stack. Kings gives 10% all stats. Sancturary gives 10% stam and strength, 3% less damage and mana when you block or parry. But the stam and str parts don't stack. The notes are referencing a bug where if you had both Sanct and Kings and Kings was removed you would lose the portion that overlapped between them.
Ah ok so no buff then. As expected really.

Ok folks in preparation for 3.2.2 which seems to be updating NOW on US servers I've trawlled the last few pages of threads and tried to post every possible outstanding 3.2.2 issue with EnhSim. Can users have a look and see if I've missed anything or add new comments/tickets for things that are missed.

The list is at EnhSim - Issue Tracker

I'm not sure how Sylvand works but if he is anything like me he'll appreciate having a simple list all in one place of things to tick off as he implements them. Better still being on the codeplex site as the issue tracker there can integrate directly into the IDE (depending on what he's using of course) so he can manage the issues and the code all in the one application. This should be dramatically less work than trawling the forums trying to identify all the issues raised.

Please however keep those issue tracker threads clean to minimise confusion. The additional nice things about the issue tracker threads is they can be hidden when marked as completed/closed.
#2515SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cochice
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Not being an alchemist I've never needed the info. However someone asked me today if EnhSim supports the buff to flasks that alchemists get and if so how do you tell the sim you have that buff?

If this isn't supported can we add it please.

With the new [Flask of the North] from a few patches ago, Alchemists can just use that item, and sim w/ the buff on. FotN takes care of the flask benefit that alchemists get. It used to be a pain to sim, but not anymore.

[e] Also regarding FS and SAA, I was thinking a more transparent bar behind the normal shock timer representing the dot duration would be a good solution visually.
#2516SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
With the new [Flask of the North] from a few patches ago, Alchemists can just use that item, and sim w/ the buff on. FotN takes care of the flask benefit that alchemists get. It used to be a pain to sim, but not anymore.

[e] Also regarding FS and SAA, I was thinking a more transparent bar behind the normal shock timer representing the dot duration would be a good solution visually.
Sorry why is an completely non-intuitive using Flask of the North setting to mimic Mixology a good idea. Surely far far better that Mixology is specifically added to the config rather than having to use work arounds. That simply makes the sim very user unfriendly and difficult for newer users to use.

Re: FS dot bar. I can look at how best to add this an outline bar behind the shock may well work, not sure. I'll play around with it and see what looks ok. Thanks for the suggestion.
#2517SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
Raging Deathbringer

Ony dropped the Raging Deathbringer tonight in 25 man and I won it and have been testing it a bit. As of yet the item doesn't exist on Wowhead, when it does I'll edit this post to include the link but for now Raging Deathbringer is the 245 version of [Empowered Deathbringer]. Raging Deathbringer's proc deals between 1458 and 1874 shadow damage and has a 196.5 DPS.

I did a short 1000 white swing test to attempt to determine the proc rate. I would've done a longer one but was pressed for time and had to stop at 1000. I'll do a much longer test when I can. From 1000 swings I had 46 procs. I was taking somewhat of a moving average as well so I would put the proc rate at 5% for now. It does not seem to have any ICD or if it does it's inconsquential (1.5 seconds or less) as several times I observed two back to back procs on white swings. It does proc off of Stormstrike and Lava Lash. I was unable to determine if it procs off of Windfury as I couldn't determine a more accurate method to test it other than just trying to watch for a weapon proc that seemed to occur from a WF. I don't have any knowledge of manipulating combat logs or parses to see if the proc did indeed come from a WF proc, if anyone has a suggestion of how I would determine that please tell me (and remember, I don't have much experience with logs, etc). However I would think it safe to assume that because it can proc from Stormstrike and Lava Lash it should be able to proc from Windfury.

The proc can crit and its crit percentage is derived from your spell crit. The proc is not affected by Elemental Fury so critical damage is only 150%. The proc does not scale with spellpower. I have yet to test whether it is affected by CoE or similar debuffs as I haven't been able to convince a lock to sit and keep CoE on the targeting dummy for me until I get a proc above 1874 damage. That's all I have to report for now. I'll post again if a longer swing test gives any contradicting results.
#2518SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cochice
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Sorry why is an completely non-intuitive using Flask of the North setting to mimic Mixology a good idea. Surely far far better that Mixology is specifically added to the config rather than having to use work arounds. That simply makes the sim very user unfriendly and difficult for newer users to use.

Re: FS dot bar. I can look at how best to add this an outline bar behind the shock may well work, not sure. I'll play around with it and see what looks ok. Thanks for the suggestion.
either/or works for Mixology. I like the FotN because it's a quick way to change your character sheet for changing the config correctly. It will add the same amount as you would get from (Mixology Endless Rage)-(Normal Endless Rage). The benefit of adding a true/false for Mixology would be if you wanted to sim other elixirs; [Wrath Elixir] with [Elixir of Mighty Thoughts] for example.

Re: FlaS; I raided tonight w/ Flame Shock glyph, and using it in my rotation. I will say that having a tracker for the dot in SAA would be very useful. As it is, I'll probably enable DoTimer for my shaman, though having it in a single frame would be handy. We lost our logs from tonight, so I can't see how FS did on all the fights, but just from anecdotal evidence looking at recount etc, it seemed to be viable enough.
#2519SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Flouyd
edit: nevermind i made a mistake
#2520SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Winfurae
I must be doing something wrong here. After filling in my stats in EnhSim, putting the simulation time to 10000 hours and running the simulator, my dps appears to be 1440. Not very impressive.

My config file looks like the following:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         0

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           0/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.9
oh_dps                          163.3
mh_crit                         30.47
oh_crit                         30.47
mh_hit                          11.04
oh_hit                          11.04
mh_expertise_rating             23
oh_expertise_rating             23
ap                              3878
melee_haste                     21.57
armor_penetration               21.57
str                             131
agi                             975
int                             538
spi                             155
spellpower                      1437
spell_crit                      21.28
spell_hit                       13.8
spell_haste                     21.57
max_mana                        12186
mp5                             60

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        sphere_of_red_dragons_blood

totem                           -

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
I also have a question regarding the 'EP' tab within the GUI. I have looked through this topic and both the EnhSim websites, however I am still unsure what values to put here, or how to determine them. I've ran EP tests using the default values for now, but I have no idea if that's the way to go. Some clarification on this would be great.

Last edited by Winfurae : 09/24/09 at 4:03 AM.
#2521SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quaunaut
Originally Posted by Winfurae View Post
I must be doing something wrong here. After filling in my stats in EnhSim, putting the simulation time to 10000 hours and running the simulator, my dps appears to be 1440. Not very impressive.

My config file looks like the following:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         0

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           0/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.9
oh_dps                          163.3
mh_crit                         30.47
oh_crit                         30.47
mh_hit                          11.04
oh_hit                          11.04
mh_expertise_rating             23
oh_expertise_rating             23
ap                              3878
melee_haste                     21.57
armor_penetration               21.57
str                             131
agi                             975
int                             538
spi                             155
spellpower                      1437
spell_crit                      21.28
spell_hit                       13.8
spell_haste                     21.57
max_mana                        12186
mp5                             60

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        sphere_of_red_dragons_blood

totem                           -

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
I also have a question regarding the 'EP' tab within the GUI. I have looked through this topic and both the EnhSim websites, however I am still unsure what values to put here, or how to determine them. I've ran EP tests using the default values for now, but I have no idea if that's the way to go. Some clarification on this would be great.
You didn't set up your Priority rotation. Essentially all you were doing was auto-attacking.
#2522SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Winfurae
Originally Posted by Quaunaut View Post
You didn't set up your Priority rotation. Essentially all you were doing was auto-attacking.
Ahhh, ofcourse! Cheers for that, this seems more like it. Any ideas regarding the EP tab?
#2523SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quaglia
Use the default values if you are not an advanced user of the simulator.
Also don't forget to add all the buffs you get from raid, since you did not select any.
#2524SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Winfurae View Post
Ahhh, ofcourse! Cheers for that, this seems more like it. Any ideas regarding the EP tab?
If you don't know what you are doing NEVER touch the EP tab's defaults.

These are the "step" values ie: the amounts to try adding to your stats to see how much of a difference that makes. Making a mistake changing these to inconsistent values can mean you get even more meaningless EP value results than the default settings give.
#2525SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
[OT] Shock and Awe issue

I hope not to report an already discussed issue and not to go completely OT, but I think it is a very serious one.

I noticed this since a long time, but it's a problem that rarely showed up in classic raid setups, where guilds usually bring only 1 enhancement shaman. It will be more annoying now if enhancement shamans will have to add Flame Shock in their priority queue.

I am referring to the addon tracking not only the player's own debuffs (SS charges and FS debuff timer), but also other shamans in the same raid.

This means a player's priority (and therefore dps) gets screwed up by other players of the same spec (and now, of same class since elem use FS and even resto can use it sometimes) putting those debuffs on mobs.

should I open a ticket on SaA curseforge webpage or it's an already discussed/fixed/unfixable issue?
#2526SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Troll Berserking Racial.

Can a troll (in game not forum) pls confirm the benefits of their berserking racial for inclusion in the sim. It says "Increases your attack speed by 20% for 10 sec." testers on wowhead suggest it affects spells also. Does it affect GCD?

With the upcoming ability for paid race changes ( World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Paid Race Change - Need Blizzard Rep ) , it may be useful to know if this gives a benefit over say Orc expertise racial.

I've posted a issue ticket on the EnhSim site. EnhSim - View Issue #4981: Troll Berserking Racial

Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
Should I open a ticket on SaA curseforge webpage or it's an already discussed/fixed/unfixable issue?
Not the right thread pls see the ShockAndAwe thread ShockAndAwe (formerly DisqoDice)

I think this is already fixed however please post a ticket on Curseforge to remind me to check that it is fixed.
#2527SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
I hope not to report an already discussed issue and not to go completely OT, but I think it is a very serious one.

I noticed this since a long time, but it's a problem that rarely showed up in classic raid setups, where guilds usually bring only 1 enhancement shaman. It will be more annoying now if enhancement shamans will have to add Flame Shock in their priority queue.

I am referring to the addon tracking not only the player's own debuffs (SS charges and FS debuff timer), but also other shamans in the same raid.

This means a player's priority (and therefore dps) gets screwed up by other players of the same spec (and now, of same class since elem use FS and even resto can use it sometimes) putting those debuffs on mobs.

should I open a ticket on SaA curseforge webpage or it's an already discussed/fixed/unfixable issue?
This hasn't been a concern for a long time now. Both powerauras and pitbull4 separate out my debuffs from any other shamans without any issues and I assume it is the same for the majority of other UI mods.

There is a check box for it in powerauras and there is an option in pitbull4 to make your own debuffs significantly larger then all the other ones and they work fine. This is a definite thing considering I set up powerauras to show me the Flame Shock debuff when active on my target but kept forgetting to cast it last night. We have an elemental shaman so if that was a real issue then I would always see it active even when I forgot to cast it and that definitely was not the case.
#2528SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Chongar
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
This hasn't been a concern for a long time now. Both powerauras and pitbull4 separate out my debuffs from any other shamans without any issues and I assume it is the same for the majority of other UI mods.

There is a check box for it in powerauras and there is an option in pitbull4 to make your own debuffs significantly larger then all the other ones and they work fine. This is a definite thing considering I set up powerauras to show me the Flame Shock debuff when active on my target but kept forgetting to cast it last night. We have an elemental shaman so if that was a real issue then I would always see it active even when I forgot to cast it and that definitely was not the case.
XPerl also handles this properly as well.
#2529SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I was thinking about where a FS would come in the priority list and came up with the following logic.

I am defining FS as ..."If FS dot expired and FS available use FS". ie: never clip the dot.

Situation : "Shock off cooldown, SS on target and FS dot just expired." We have two possibilities :

1) ES_SS, FS or 2) FS, ES_SS

In situation 1) we pick ES over FS and get the 28% boost from the SS debuff and wait minimum of 6 seconds (or less if reverb talented) for shock to come off coolodown to be able to use FS. Or

In situation 2) we pick FS over ES and get minimum of 3 ticks (2 if reverb talented) of FS damage. Note the SS debuff may have expired in the 6 seconds (less if reverb) that shock is now on CD and before you can do ES.

So to me its a case of making sure you use the SS debuff when available otherwise you are trading 28% nature damage for 3 ticks of FS fire damage. I haven't done the maths yet but I'm reasonably sure 28% nature damage will be more. Hence the suggestion of ES_SS before FS.

This would give rise to MW5_LB, ES_SS, FS, SS, ES, LL, MT, LS, totem refresh.

BTW do we have any new co-efficients for Flame Shock? Or did it remain the same just with a longer duration? I'll need to add an option to Rawr so I was hoping to get the figures from someone who knew before going and reinventing the wheel.

Has anyone done any napkin maths to show what level of Spellpower required to make FS viable. Also what level of crit/spellpower required to make FS glyph viable.
#2530SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mogadee
I changed my spec to put 5/5 in reverberation after some early testing with FS. I had 2/2 imp SS and 2/2 imp WF totem, removed those and 1 from Call of Flame. With the 5 second CD I am able to get 2 ESs during the full duration of the FS, without clipping, while maintaining SS debuff, MW 5 stacks, and LL to keep quaking earth totem proc up. Without the reverb, the FS dot would fall off with ~2 seconds left on shock CD.

Reverb seems to be a must in order to fully utilize adding FS into the priority.
#2531SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3tarrick
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
BTW do we have any new co-efficients for Flame Shock? Or did it remain the same just with a longer duration? I'll need to add an option to Rawr so I was hoping to get the figures from someone who knew before going and reinventing the wheel.

Has anyone done any napkin maths to show what level of Spellpower required to make FS viable. Also what level of crit/spellpower required to make FS glyph viable.
Same coefficient with more duration.
#2532SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rani
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Has anyone done any napkin maths to show what level of Spellpower required to make FS viable. Also what level of crit/spellpower required to make FS glyph viable.
Not entirely what you are looking for, but I did basic math for the effectiveness of FS and the glyph a while back:
[Enhancement] 3.2 Changes
[Enhancement] 3.2 Changes

FS beats ES with 1250 SP, I dont have the exact number when they are worth the same but all shamans should attain 1250 easily, if not personal then with raid buffs.

The glyph turned out to be about 56 DPS increase for a shaman with 2500 SP (raid buffed) and 40% crit.
#2533SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I was thinking about where a FS would come in the priority list and came up with the following logic.

I am defining FS as ..."If FS dot expired and FS available use FS". ie: never clip the dot.

Situation : "Shock off cooldown, SS on target and FS dot just expired." We have two possibilities :

1) ES_SS, FS or 2) FS, ES_SS

In situation 1) we pick ES over FS and get the 28% boost from the SS debuff and wait minimum of 6 seconds (or less if reverb talented) for shock to come off coolodown to be able to use FS. Or

In situation 2) we pick FS over ES and get minimum of 3 ticks (2 if reverb talented) of FS damage. Note the SS debuff may have expired in the 6 seconds (less if reverb) that shock is now on CD and before you can do ES.

So to me its a case of making sure you use the SS debuff when available otherwise you are trading 28% nature damage for 3 ticks of FS fire damage. I haven't done the maths yet but I'm reasonably sure 28% nature damage will be more. Hence the suggestion of ES_SS before FS.

This would give rise to MW5_LB, ES_SS, FS, SS, ES, LL, MT, LS, totem refresh.
I think you might be over-thinking how to make FS work in EnhSim. Tukez gave us an option to only cast FS when there are less then a specified number of DoT ticks are remaining so use that to define when to cast FS.

FS is more damage then ES-SS so long as you get at least 5 out of 6 ticks even with the 28% bump in Nature damage. So just set up your priorities with FS before ES_SS and then set it so that it will only cast FS if there is 1 tick or less remaining on the DoT.
#2534SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Not the right thread pls see the ShockAndAwe thread ShockAndAwe (formerly DisqoDice)

I think this is already fixed however please post a ticket on Curseforge to remind me to check that it is fixed.
thanks I didn't notice there was a specific thread, will indeed open a ticket on curseforge.
#2535SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Hey guys, sorry for the untimely update. I took a short vacation and have actually been spending some time outside the game. I'll see if I can't get out 3.2.2 updates this weekend.

I think I can get the flame shock stuff pretty easily. I'll also see about adding LL_EQ. Does anyone have proc rate data for the Onyxia axe?

Was there anything else that needs to get added?
#2536SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
Slightly off topic here but people are discussing how to apply FS in-game;

Wouldn't
/castsequence reset=18/alt Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock
solve 90% of everything discussed regarding Flame Shock usage? You can tune the reset value by Reverberation and/or math showing that overwriting FS is eligible at a sooner stage. Reset button is optional of course.

I'm interested to see if less ES spam will affect damage done by LB now that less SS debuffs are consumed by ES. I doubt this alone will be a great impact (also due to DoT time) but it could be a couple of DPS and tip the scale in favor of the FS glyph instead of WF.
#2537SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
sorry if I bring an already discussed matter, can be worth casting SS (if not already present) on a target even with a MW5 LB/CL available? or the chance of losing 1 GCD of possible MW stacks + the SS chance will result in a dps loss?

substantially, the chance to have x new stacks from SS + GCD whites makes up for the 28% increased damage(SS bonus+glyph of SS) of the LB?

Otherwise, it could be interesting have the option to set this in the sim priority
#2538SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
Why? The sim simulates one target attacks if memory serves me right and you don't start a fight with MW5.
#2539SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Schahmaar
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
Hey guys, sorry for the untimely update. I took a short vacation and have actually been spending some time outside the game. I'll see if I can't get out 3.2.2 updates this weekend.

I think I can get the flame shock stuff pretty easily. I'll also see about adding LL_EQ. Does anyone have proc rate data for the Onyxia axe?

Was there anything else that needs to get added?
Great, I really appreciate your efford. Thanx for that.
A bit of info concerning the axe can be found here:
[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion

Due to the fact that the mechanics isn't completely clear yet, the correct proc rate isn't, too.
But according to the posts about a really great testing of the guys there, at least for me, it's likely to be a 4.6-5.2% proc rate. Now, I did something statistically dangerous, as we do not know the exact mechanics, yet. The sum of all swings and procs of all single measurements will yield a proc-rate of 4.8%. Given the fact (?) that non-integer-values are more unlikely to be used as proc-rates than integers, I'd agree to Brynmors (EnhSim, DPS simulator) statement that the proc-rate is likely 5%.
#2540SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Quaglia
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I'll see if I can't get out 3.2.2 updates this weekend.

I think I can get the flame shock stuff pretty easily. I'll also see about adding LL_EQ. Does anyone have proc rate data for the Onyxia axe?

Was there anything else that needs to get added?

Thanx Sylvand, of course, don't forget the armor penetration change from the last patch:

Armor Penetration Rating: The amount of armor penetration gained per point of this rating has been reduced by 12%.
#2541SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mogadee
From my use of FS in rotation with 5/5 reverb, you can only get 2 ES in between each full FS tick. Taking in to account the GCDs for MW5 stacks, SS, and ES.
#2542SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Why? The sim simulates one target attacks if memory serves me right and you don't start a fight with MW5.
you don't get my point, I am talking about the while combat rotation/priority, not (only) the beginning of a fight. Assume this:

- you SS the target mob (4 SS charges)
- LS procs (3 charges)
- you ES (2 charges)
- Static Shock procs (1 charge)
- you ES (0 charges)
- MW5 is ready

now what is better:
-SS then MW5LB
-MW5LB without applying SS

or something like that.

the diference is in increased LB damage (first choice) at the expense of losing possible MW stacks (second choice)
#2543SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mogadee
It has been stated and proven before that holding off a MW5 to SS to get the debuff would mean a dps loss. MW5 should be used first regardless of the SS debuff. The next SS after the use of MW5 LB could proc a WF and stack MW back up to 3-4, if lucky. If the SS came first for debuff, thats a loss in MW procs and an overall decrease in LBs cast. That is why the priority list does not specify to only use MW5 if the SS debuff is up.
#2544SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
Originally Posted by Mogadee View Post
It has been stated and proven before that holding off a MW5 to SS to get the debuff would mean a dps loss. MW5 should be used first regardless of the SS debuff. The next SS after the use of MW5 LB could proc a WF and stack MW back up to 3-4, if lucky. If the SS came first for debuff, thats a loss in MW procs and an overall decrease in LBs cast. That is why the priority list does not specify to only use MW5 if the SS debuff is up.
Thanks, that's what I needed to know.
I still have the doubt about the correct maths and stats scaling (SS proccing 1-n charges is a chance %), so I tried to find a post/threat that clarifies this, but didn't have much luck. Now, if anyone could be so kind to point me there...

BTW: thanks Levva for the quick fix and update of SaA
#2545SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Mogadee View Post
It has been stated and proven before that holding off a MW5 to SS to get the debuff would mean a dps loss. MW5 should be used first regardless of the SS debuff. The next SS after the use of MW5 LB could proc a WF and stack MW back up to 3-4, if lucky. If the SS came first for debuff, thats a loss in MW procs and an overall decrease in LBs cast. That is why the priority list does not specify to only use MW5 if the SS debuff is up.
However, I don't think the request to have this added to the sim is entirely unreasonable. People want to test this sort of thing out rather than just be told one way or another (which is what we usually encourage around here). Set bonuses and the like can have an impact of this sort of thing and have people asking questions.

I'm not saying you're wrong or even that this is a high priority update, just that having a SS_0Charge priority does have a place on the "Nice To Have" list.
#2546SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
Hey guys, sorry for the untimely update. I took a short vacation and have actually been spending some time outside the game. I'll see if I can't get out 3.2.2 updates this weekend.

I think I can get the flame shock stuff pretty easily. I'll also see about adding LL_EQ. Does anyone have proc rate data for the Onyxia axe?

Was there anything else that needs to get added?
Sylvand I made a point of picking up every last possible update and posting them as issues for you at EnhSim - Issue Tracker thus you can work through them and mark as fixed or post comments etc

I erred on the side of caution, if I wasn't 100% sure the sim coped right as their had been some discussion about it I posted an issue for you to verify. A few of the issues might therefore be a simply yup that's done right in the sim. Post msg saying its right and mark issue as closed.

I've also encouraged others to post any errors on the issues list so that we can maintain a working todo list. This should make it dramatically easier to update as all you ever need look at is the issues list and not have to trawl through multiple threads on this and other forums.

So once again guys if there is any bug or extra wish list item to add PLEASE post a ticket so that ALL of the requests are in the same place.

PS. Would recommend new version is numbered v1.9.0 as it will potentially have quite a few changes and it suggests to people its worth getting as an upgrade.

Last edited by Levva : 09/25/09 at 8:42 PM.
#2547SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Ciege
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Slightly off topic here but people are discussing how to apply FS in-game;

Wouldn't
/castsequence reset=18/alt Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock
solve 90% of everything discussed regarding Flame Shock usage? You can tune the reset value by Reverberation and/or math showing that overwriting FS is eligible at a sooner stage. Reset button is optional of course.

I'm interested to see if less ES spam will affect damage done by LB now that less SS debuffs are consumed by ES. I doubt this alone will be a great impact (also due to DoT time) but it could be a couple of DPS and tip the scale in favor of the FS glyph instead of WF.
i tried this once during the new Ony (we out geared the fight so it really didnt matter) and was encountering issues involving the reset, i litterally was having to go through my other Earth Shocks (varied off 1 to both depending on the priorty list i used) after my Flame Shock debuff had already dropped off. Which brings my next question, why do you have 3 Earth Shocks? By the time the 4th shock rolls around, its time to get Flame Shock back up.

Totem of the Quaking Earth Buff is down or about to be down, would it not be more important (outside of MWx5_LB) to attempt to refresh it first or if it has less than a specific amount of time? My guess would be about 6-7 seconds, as you could bring it back up if needed before it drops.

Last edited by Ciege : 09/26/09 at 4:59 AM.
#2548SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Slightly off topic here but people are discussing how to apply FS in-game;

Wouldn't
/castsequence reset=18/alt Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock
solve 90% of everything discussed regarding Flame Shock usage? You can tune the reset value by Reverberation and/or math showing that overwriting FS is eligible at a sooner stage. Reset button is optional of course.

I'm interested to see if less ES spam will affect damage done by LB now that less SS debuffs are consumed by ES. I doubt this alone will be a great impact (also due to DoT time) but it could be a couple of DPS and tip the scale in favor of the FS glyph instead of WF.
That macro probably fails as they changed the way the macros work in the patch. I understand they now go through every spell in the sequence before restarting. Blizzard changed the way they work as players were using such macros with long sequences so that they could mash a button and the game would make decisions for them. Since the game making decisions is a bad thing it was changed so players had to decide what to use and not the game.
#2549SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
That macro probably fails as they changed the way the macros work in the patch. I understand they now go through every spell in the sequence before restarting. Blizzard changed the way they work as players were using such macros with long sequences so that they could mash a button and the game would make decisions for them. Since the game making decisions is a bad thing it was changed so players had to decide what to use and not the game.
There were no changes that affected castsequence macros that's just how they work. Every time you hit the macro it resets the timer meaning the "18" part of it is only useful in a situation where there is a long pause where you haven't hit the macro at all. That's why I add "combat" into the reset portion of my macro since that way when combat drops, I start on the next target with a Flame Shock no matter how much or little time has elapsed. Which works well since if we are moving between targets/packs then I won't have the Stormstrike debuff up anyway for that first shock from range so I will want to start with Flame Shock then anyway.

The problem he is having with the macro is related to reverberation and the timing of things.

0 - FS
1
2
3
4
5 - ES (reverb)
6 - ES (w/o reverb)
7
8
9
10 - ES (reverb)
11
12 - ES (w/o reverb)
13
14
15 - ES (reverb) or FS (reverb) if you want to clip the last tick
16
17
18 - DoT gone - FS (w/o reverb)
19
20 - FS (reverb) to avoid clipping that last tick

If you are specced into Reverb then you have to make a choice of either clipping the last tick of the FS DoT (which causes FS to lose a chunk of it's damage advantage over ES) or you wait for the DoT to fall off completely before reapplying.

Without Reverb the macro should be;
/castsequence reset=18/combat/alt Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock
With Reverb it depends on whether you want to clip the last DoT tick or not. That is the part that really needs the Sim to figure out what is better especially if you involve the FS glyph. If it turns out to be better to clip then just use the same macro as people without reverb but if it turns out to be better not to clip then you need to add an additional ES into the macro so;
/castsequence reset=18/combat/alt Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock
#2550SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Razanar
To you guys that are discussing the viability of Reverberation, have you considered the possibility of only going 4/5 instead of the full 5/5? At a 5.2 second cooldown, your shock would come off cooldown at the 15.6 second mark. This might provide a couple benefits, including an automatic safeguard against clipping the DoT, as well as freeing up a talent point to put in a place such as Improved Shields, at minimal-to-no DPS loss.

Of course, this is all only relevant if reverberation ends up being a DPS boost with 4/5 T9
#2551SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Razanar View Post
To you guys that are discussing the viability of Reverberation, have you considered the possibility of only going 4/5 instead of the full 5/5? At a 5.2 second cooldown, your shock would come off cooldown at the 15.6 second mark. This might provide a couple benefits, including an automatic safeguard against clipping the DoT, as well as freeing up a talent point to put in a place such as Improved Shields, at minimal-to-no DPS loss.

Of course, this is all only relevant if reverberation ends up being a DPS boost with 4/5 T9

How would 15.6 be any better then 15? The clipping I was talking about is of the last tick which occurs at 18 not the tick that occurs at 15 seconds. I'm not sure it's possible to clip the tick that occurs at 15 seconds with 5/5 reverb or the one that would occur at 18 seconds with 0/5 reverb. Since the cooldown would end as the tick occurs, your client's instruction to the server to cast the next Flame Shock should be a minimum of a latency period behind the server calculating that last DoT tick.
#2552SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ciege
Originally Posted by Razanar View Post
To you guys that are discussing the viability of Reverberation, have you considered the possibility of only going 4/5 instead of the full 5/5? At a 5.2 second cooldown, your shock would come off cooldown at the 15.6 second mark. This might provide a couple benefits, including an automatic safeguard against clipping the DoT, as well as freeing up a talent point to put in a place such as Improved Shields, at minimal-to-no DPS loss.

Of course, this is all only relevant if reverberation ends up being a DPS boost with 4/5 T9
Rouncer is right, i was playing around with the shock rotation and for me it seemed 3/5 worked best, when latency was taken into account. I was able to get my 2 shocks off and right as the last dot tick occured i would re-apply the Flame Shock dot. This was me standing at a target dummy just spamming the shocks, no priority list. Later when i started working on a priority list basis instead, it change things ALOT. The most i was able to keep flame shock on the target i would say was about 85% of the time, as i was placing making sure the QE totem buff stayed up and even more important than that was using MWx5_LB. My priority list boils down to this

MWx5_LB
ToQE =< 7 seconds, LL
FS
ES_SS
SS
LL
LS
MT

Basically the same as Levva's, the only difference i added was to do LL if the QE buff was at 7 or less, so i could HOPEFULLY keep the buff up for a longer period of time, refreshing it rather than letting it drop.
#2553SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Enkeedu
This may be a moot point in a few days when we get an updated version of the simulator, but I was wondering what would be the best way to deal with the armor pen. adjustment in the current sim. I'm thinking not just in terms of modeling dps but adjusting the EP value.

I figured that a reasonable approximation would be to manually decrease my current arm. pen. value which I exported from S&A (multiply by 0.88 to account for the 12% decrease in effectiveness) to adjust the dps output from the simulator, and then apply the same 0.88 coefficient to the EP rating that the simulator gives me. I figured that the first adjustment takes care of the armor pen. I already have, and the second adjusts the rating for future gear that I may look at evaluating.

The difference is not extreme; my current stat went from 13.1 to 11.9 or so, and the EP value from 1.57 to 1.38. That seems reasonable to me, I suppose. Its already led me to swap one piece of gear so I'm just hoping I'm not off base.
#2554SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Enkeedu View Post
This may be a moot point in a few days when we get an updated version of the simulator, but I was wondering what would be the best way to deal with the armor pen. adjustment in the current sim. I'm thinking not just in terms of modeling dps but adjusting the EP value.

I figured that a reasonable approximation would be to manually decrease my current arm. pen. value which I exported from S&A (multiply by 0.88 to account for the 12% decrease in effectiveness) to adjust the dps output from the simulator, and then apply the same 0.88 coefficient to the EP rating that the simulator gives me. I figured that the first adjustment takes care of the armor pen. I already have, and the second adjusts the rating for future gear that I may look at evaluating.

The difference is not extreme; my current stat went from 13.1 to 11.9 or so, and the EP value from 1.57 to 1.38. That seems reasonable to me, I suppose. Its already led me to swap one piece of gear so I'm just hoping I'm not off base.
Errr no not really. EP values simply don't work like that. The EP value of any stat can't simply be multiplied by any change to it as there are plenty of interactions between a single stat and all the other stats in lots of different formulae.

Now as it happens ArP is a complex beast, as GC's formulae on the Blizzard forums showed and isn't directly linear however it is one of the more straightforward stats being a straight modifier to damage reduction. You also have to recall that it only affects around half our dps and so a 12% nerf to Arp will not be a 12% dps loss in fact it only modifies the damage reduction modifier on half our damage so its not even 6%. Assuming the damage reduction modifier you had from ArP is no more than 20-30% then 12% ArP loss is closer to .12*.25*.5 = 1.5%. Of course many will have a lot lower ArP than that and so lower dps loss.
#2555SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Ryethe
I wanted to do some quick comparisons with shock damage to see just how much DPS flameshock would add. In order to simulate this I used the Flame Shock glyph in the sim. For all intents and purposes this glyph should mimic what FS acts like on live without the glyph.

Steps:
1. 2 glyph slots filled with Stormstike and Feral Spirits (only Stormstrike is really important here due to the debuff) and 1 empty glyph slot.
2. Sim without FS in the rotation.
3. Add FS glyph to the third glyph slot (remember that this is the old FS glyph so it will mimic the way FS acts on live unglyphed)
4. Add FS to the rotation above SS_ES
5. Resim.

The difference between 2 and 5 is 10 DPS in favour of 2. Assuming that the new FS glyph adds 77DPS as Bink said then we're still looking at a loss compared to using the WF glyph.

I find it strange that the EnhShock spreadsheet Bink posted was reporting DPS gain without the new glyph when the sim clearly shows otherwise. Something is buggered up in one of the two.

Find my config below:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         60
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         12
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              FS
rotation_priority5              ES_SS
rotation_priority6              SS
rotation_priority7              ES
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS
rotation_priority10             LL
rotation_priority11             MW3_LB
rotation_priority12             MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.61
mh_dps                          196.5
oh_dps                          196.5
mh_crit                         37.78
oh_crit                         37.78
mh_hit                          11.56
oh_hit                          11.56
mh_expertise_rating             140
oh_expertise_rating             140
ap                              4601
melee_haste                     17.92
armor_penetration               3.57
str                             147
agi                             1014
int                             650
spi                             171
spellpower                      1380
spell_crit                      28.79
spell_hit                       14.45
spell_haste                     13.78
max_mana                        13866
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        45522
trinket2                        45931

totem                           47667

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    flame_shock

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Last edited by Ryethe : 09/28/09 at 9:24 AM. Reason: Clarify the steps used.
#2556SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Brynmor
I don't think its worth conjecturing about FS and the new FS glyph until the sim gets updated. At the very least we can say your test showed a 10 DPS loss in a situation where the DoT wouldn't be able to crit. If we translate your test to how FS now behaves live (with the effects of the old FS glyph being folded into FS with no glyph needed) it would be as if you used FS in your rotation and only had 2 major glyphs in use. I would very much think that allowing the FS DoT to crit with the new glyph is going to be worth more than 10 DPS. Unless anyone can prove otherwise it would seem that dropping the WF glyph for the new FS glyph and working FS into our rotation will net a DPS increase. That said I'm not about to start doing so until EnhSim gets updated and I can prove it to myself.

Last edited by Brynmor : 09/27/09 at 3:22 AM. Reason: Clarification
#2557SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Brynmor View Post
I don't think its worth conjecturing about FS and the new FS glyph until the sim gets updated. At the very least we can say your test showed a 10 DPS loss in a situation where the DoT wouldn't be able to crit. If we translate your test to how FS now behaves live (with the effects of the old FS glyph being folded into FS with no glyph needed) it would be as if you used FS in your rotation and only had 2 major glyphs in use. I would very much think that allowing the FS DoT to crit with the new glyph is going to be worth more than 10 DPS. Unless anyone can prove otherwise it would seem that dropping the WF glyph for the new FS glyph and working FS into our rotation will net a DPS increase. That said I'm not about to start doing so until EnhSim gets updated and I can prove it to myself.
Except all previous conjecture and math showed that the extended FS dot was a DPS upgrade BEFORE adding in the new FS glyph (which is why the glyph would have been such a no brainer).

One glyph slot was open was exactly the point. If I fill that glyph slot with WF and removed FS from the rotation, it was a 77 DPS upgrade. That means the new glyph will have to pack one hell of a punch for it to be worth adding a new spell to our rotation.
#2558SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nayruu
Hmmm ..
I use Totem of Quaking Earth and Victor's Call Heroic (Trinket)
When I run the Sim I get the Message
"Trinket 47946 not found.
Totem 47667 not found."

I'm sure I have the latest version of Enhsim. (1.7.0) What can I do about this? O.o
Do we have to wait for a newer version or does my addon give me the wrong numbers of the totem/trinket?
#2559SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
Originally Posted by Nayruu View Post
Hmmm ..
I use Totem of Quaking Earth and Victor's Call Heroic (Trinket)
When I run the Sim I get the Message
"Trinket 47946 not found.
Totem 47667 not found."

I'm sure I have the latest version of Enhsim. (1.7.0) What can I do about this? O.o
Do we have to wait for a newer version or does my addon give me the wrong numbers of the totem/trinket?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you are, in fact, NOT using the latest version of Enhsim, and that you would be wise to actually use the search function on this thread to search for the correct version of Enhsim, 1.8.3.3
#2560SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sithray
Originally Posted by Nayruu View Post
Hmmm ..
I use Totem of Quaking Earth and Victor's Call Heroic (Trinket)
When I run the Sim I get the Message
"Trinket 47946 not found.
Totem 47667 not found."

I'm sure I have the latest version of Enhsim. (1.7.0) What can I do about this? O.o
Do we have to wait for a newer version or does my addon give me the wrong numbers of the totem/trinket?
Yeah, that original post isn't accurate. I think Levva has it in his sig. 1.8.3.3 is the current.
#2561SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lyska
Could we please get an updated mac version?
#2562SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Akiros
Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
I wanted to do some quick comparisons with shock damage to see just how much DPS flameshock would add. In order to simulate this I used the Flame Shock glyph in the sim. For all intents and purposes this glyph should mimic what FS acts like on live without the glyph. I then inserted FS in the rotation above ES_SS. I then simmed with FS in the rotation and with FS out of the rotation.

The result was a 10DPS loss when FS was in the rotation. Assuming that the new FS glyph adds 77DPS as Bink said then we're still looking at a loss compared to using the WF glyph.

I find it strange that the EnhShock spreadsheet Bink posted was reporting DPS gain without the new glyph when the sim clearly shows otherwise. Something is buggered up in one of the two.
What is your reference point?
You need to sim without WF glyph first, and then add the FS glyph.
#2563SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Nayruu
Originally Posted by Deathicle View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you are, in fact, NOT using the latest version of Enhsim, and that you would be wise to actually use the search function on this thread to search for the correct version of Enhsim, 1.8.3.3
Sorry for bothering you. I was just checking the first post in this thread and EnhSim: Downloads where you can't find a newer version
but thanks a lot, I am now up to date
#2564SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Akiros View Post
What is your reference point?
You need to sim without WF glyph first, and then add the FS glyph.
Exactly what I did. Whether or not the third slot is filled with the FS glyph for both tests is irrelevant since if FS is not in the rotation the third slot is effectively empty.
#2565SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Alandovos
Updated GUI released

New version available from EnhSim - Home

GUI updates only!

If you have issues please either send me a PM or the more preferred option is to open an issue on the enhsim site.

Fixed:
4783 - Remove OH melee hit and crit % boxes
4785 - Add check for correct enhsim.exe path before trying to launch sim
4974 - Prevent selecting both 2 and 4 piece bonuses from the same set
4973 - Pick up food and flask buffs from rawr import
4991 - Fixed imports from Shock and Awe

Additional fixes:
Reset of gear choice & glyph boxes when loading
Reset of buff and food boxes when loading only from rawr
Moved glyphs to the Glyphs & Talents tab
Renamed some tabs
Fixed minor formatting issues
Added "Report an Error" button in place of donate button - users will be directed to the issue tracker page on codeplex
#2566SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Akiros
Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
Exactly what I did. Whether or not the third slot is filled with the FS glyph for both tests is irrelevant since if FS is not in the rotation the third slot is effectively empty.
Well, I see a difference of about 20 dps in favor of FS for me. So your results might not be valid for others.

Last edited by Akiros : 09/28/09 at 2:10 PM.
#2567SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Enkeedu
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Errr no not really. EP values simply don't work like that. The EP value of any stat can't simply be multiplied by any change to it as there are plenty of interactions between a single stat and all the other stats in lots of different formulae.

Now as it happens ArP is a complex beast, as GC's formulae on the Blizzard forums showed and isn't directly linear however it is one of the more straightforward stats being a straight modifier to damage reduction. You also have to recall that it only affects around half our dps and so a 12% nerf to Arp will not be a 12% dps loss in fact it only modifies the damage reduction modifier on half our damage so its not even 6%. Assuming the damage reduction modifier you had from ArP is no more than 20-30% then 12% ArP loss is closer to .12*.25*.5 = 1.5%. Of course many will have a lot lower ArP than that and so lower dps loss.
I think I see what you're saying. I never assumed that the 12% decrease in arp would equate to an overall 12% dps loss, but I did assume that decreasing my arp value by 12% would approximate the 12% nerf, which is not necessarily the case as you have explained.

As to the EP scaling, I did suspect that making a simple adjustment there to compensate for the nerf would be a bit ambitious, but given that anytime you use the EP scale alone to justify a gearing choice you are making an approximation, I figured I would still be in the ballpark. Perhaps not! However, if I could come up with the correct coefficient to scale my input arp. by, I could atleast be somewhat confident that my other melee related EP values would not be as incorrect as they are now. Right now I'm reasonably confident that those other melee related stats are valued slightly higher than they ought to be. But really, the only useful stat we have that isn't related to melee is raw spellpower, of which we're almost never trying to compare gear anyway.

I'll just continue to wait patiently for the new sim.
#2568SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rani
Originally Posted by Alandovos View Post
New version available from EnhSim - Home

GUI updates only!

If you have issues please either send me a PM or the more preferred option is to open an issue on the enhsim site.

Fixed:
4783 - Remove OH melee hit and crit % boxes
4785 - Add check for correct enhsim.exe path before trying to launch sim
4974 - Prevent selecting both 2 and 4 piece bonuses from the same set
4973 - Pick up food and flask buffs from rawr import
4991 - Fixed imports from Shock and Awe

Additional fixes:
Reset of gear choice & glyph boxes when loading
Reset of buff and food boxes when loading only from rawr
Moved glyphs to the Glyphs & Talents tab
Renamed some tabs
Fixed minor formatting issues
Added "Report an Error" button in place of donate button - users will be directed to the issue tracker page on codeplex
Might be a dumb question, but does this version includes the changes to FS and ArP?
...also, what about a new LL_QE priority?
#2569SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Rani View Post
Might be a dumb question, but does this version includes the changes to FS and ArP?
...also, what about a new LL_QE priority?
That all relates to core enhsim functionality. This was only a GUI update.
#2570SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Reztester
Hey guys I have been using for Enhsim for a long time but the last two updates have been giving me some real funny numbers:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2655.04
ap                        1.00      0.20      2695.40        40.36
crit rating               1.19      0.24      2662.23        7.19
hit rating                1.48      0.30      2663.97        8.93
expertise rating          0.27      0.06      2656.84        1.81
haste rating              1.20      0.24      2662.31        7.27
armor penetration rating  -0.17     -0.03     2654.00        -1.04
spellpower                2.45      0.49      2729.28        74.24
mh dps                    -0.50     -0.10     2654.28        -0.76
oh dps                    1.87      0.38      2657.87        2.83
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.24
intelligence*             1.53
No matter what i put in I always have been gettign a negative value for main hand, my combate log shows negative dps for white, and stormstrike damage! what am i doing wrong? here is what i am inputting:

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.9
oh_dps                          178.9
mh_crit                         35.47
oh_crit                         35.47
mh_hit                          11.13
oh_hit                          11.13
mh_expertise_rating             136
oh_expertise_rating             136
ap                              4034
melee_haste                     22.96
armor_penetration               0
str                             141
agi                             956
int                             455
spi                             164
spellpower                      1210
spell_crit                      26.01
spell_hit                       14.91
spell_haste                     22.96
max_mana                        11736
mp5                             58

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        pyrite_infuser

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         -

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
edited to include code boxes and clear up where my EP info was posted!

Last edited by Reztester : 09/28/09 at 5:51 PM.
#2571SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Reztester View Post
Hey guys I have been using for Enhsim for a long time but the last two updates have been giving me some real funny numbers:

Use [ code ][ /code ] without the spaces when you are going to post config file. Also if you are asking a question about EP values don't you think it would be germane to include the EP portion of your config?
#2572SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Nayruu View Post
Sorry for bothering you. I was just checking the first post in this thread and EnhSim: Downloads where you can't find a newer version
but thanks a lot, I am now up to date
Would it be at all possible for one of the forum mods to edit that first post in this thread and change the URL link to EnhSim - Home ? What's the protocol to bring this to their attention? Report the post?
#2573SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Reztester
sorry about that fixed my posting with the code tags.
#2574SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Reztester View Post
sorry about that fixed my posting with the code tags.
If that is your entire config then the reason you are getting such warped numbers for EP is that you haven't give the simulator any values you also haven't given the sim a priority list to work with either. Try using the GUI import function instead of just copying the rawr output and running that as your config.
#2575SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
Except all previous conjecture and math showed that the extended FS dot was a DPS upgrade BEFORE adding in the new FS glyph (which is why the glyph would have been such a no brainer).

One glyph slot was open was exactly the point. If I fill that glyph slot with WF and removed FS from the rotation, it was a 77 DPS upgrade. That means the new glyph will have to pack one hell of a punch for it to be worth adding a new spell to our rotation.
It does, but I don't think you understand exactly how you should've ran your test. I tried to explain it a little on my first response but I guess I wasn't as clear as I could've been. This time I'll just resort to math.

I ran EnhSim with my character's stats, full buffs, rotation as set in the BiS thread. No FS, FS glyph, no removal of WF glyph. I get 8143 DPS.

Next test I remove the WF glyph and change nothing else. I get 8058 DPS. From this we can say that the WF glyph is worth 85 DPS in my circumstance.

Then I ran it adding FS to my rotation (below SS on priority) and replacing the WF glyph with the FS glyph to simulate how FS behaves live. I got 8060 DPS. Now, to get to where we'd be live I now have to add back in the DPS from WF glyph, which would bring me to 8145 DPS. So as far as my own stats go incorporating FS into my rotation does yield a small DPS increase.
#2576SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Akiros View Post
Well, I see a difference of about 20 dps in favor of FS for me. So your results might not be valid for others.
It seems that the main issue here is 4pc T9. If I remove 4pc t9 and replace it with 2pc t9 and repeat the test then I see the sim coming out in favour of an ES-FS rotation.

Now observe the difference in FS damage between 4pc t9 being absent and 4pc t9 being added:

2pc T9:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
earth shock         464.13    6.11%     6.28      40.60     18.70%
flame shock         237.69    3.13%     2.98      18.20     8.38%
4pc t9
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
earth shock         580.17    7.5%      6.28      40.60     18.70%
flame shock         261.68    3.38%     2.98      18.20     8.38%
When I scroll up and look at the FS damage attributed to dots it's the same in both configs even though the one with 4pcT9 should be 25% higher.

I've logged this in the bug tracker.
#2577SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Reztester
### Saved by v1.8.3.3a of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 8000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    2000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              MT
rotation_priority6              LS
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              ES

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.9
oh_dps                          178.9
mh_crit                         35.47
oh_crit                         35.47
mh_hit                          11.13
oh_hit                          11.13
mh_expertise_rating             136
oh_expertise_rating             136
ap                              4034
melee_haste                     22.96
armor_penetration               0
str                             141
agi                             956
int                             455
spi                             164
spellpower                      1210
spell_crit                      26.01
spell_hit                       14.91
spell_haste                     22.96
max_mana                        11736
mp5                             58

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        pyrite_infuser

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         -

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
sorry for the hassle this is the entire config file i am using to calculate the EPs i was getting in my previous email.
#2578SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Reztester View Post
armor                           13083


armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
sorry for the hassle this is the entire config file i am using to calculate the EPs i was getting in my previous email.
You are using an old config with some errors. Boss armor isn't that high anymore but the big one is that Sunder is a percentage armor reduction now so you have it removing 3925% of the bosses armor which is most likely why your results are screwed up.
#2579SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bigbare
Originally Posted by Reztester View Post
sorry for the hassle this is the entire config file i am using to calculate the EPs i was getting in my previous email.
Also make sure you fill in talents properly. In this config file you don't have any points in elemental fury, which will drastically skew your ep values for crit as well as current dps simulation.
#2580SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Brynmor View Post
It does, but I don't think you understand exactly how you should've ran your test. I tried to explain it a little on my first response but I guess I wasn't as clear as I could've been. This time I'll just resort to math.

I ran EnhSim with my character's stats, full buffs, rotation as set in the BiS thread. No FS, FS glyph, no removal of WF glyph. I get 8143 DPS.

Next test I remove the WF glyph and change nothing else. I get 8058 DPS. From this we can say that the WF glyph is worth 85 DPS in my circumstance.

Then I ran it adding FS to my rotation (below SS on priority) and replacing the WF glyph with the FS glyph to simulate how FS behaves live. I got 8060 DPS. Now, to get to where we'd be live I now have to add back in the DPS from WF glyph, which would bring me to 8145 DPS. So as far as my own stats go incorporating FS into my rotation does yield a small DPS increase.
First off I could care less how much of a DPS increase the WF glyph is or even the new FS glyph is for that matter. My real intention was not to compare glyphs. Instead I wanted to show that an ES-FS rotation was coming out as a DPS downgrade when all previous data was suggesting an upgrade (this is with 3.2.2 duration and without the glyph). Whether the WF glyph is in or out only has bearing on WF damage and nothing else. With this goal in mind, I can't seem to see any issue with my test. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the glyph at all as it diluted and confused my point. Cavet: As mentioned above, there appears to be a bug in the sim so my test was invalidated for different reasons.

As for your test scenario, I'd suggest you go check how many FS were cast with that sort of setup. To get FS cast values above anything trivial I had to move FS above ES_SS. Reason being that there were almost always extra SS charges and ES_SS was forcing FS to be on CD when it was arrived at in the priority list.
#2581SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
I may just be having a brain fart, but Lava Lash is already on a 6 second cooldown. Is there any value to adding something like LL_QE at this time?
#2582SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3SentinelBorg
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I may just be having a brain fart, but Lava Lash is already on a 6 second cooldown. Is there any value to adding something like LL_QE at this time?
Well, while Lava Lash is on a 6 second cooldown, it is also usually our lowest priority ability. So sometimes, especially with Bloodlust up, we actually may not use it over a longer period of time, because there is always something better available. That why the idea of a LL_QE came up, to increase the priority of LL when the QE buff isn't up.
#2583SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3rastotem
I was thinking the exact same thing sentinelborg, that now that LL has such a good buff attached to it its priority must rise when the buff is not on.
#2584SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
I may just be having a brain fart, but Lava Lash is already on a 6 second cooldown. Is there any value to adding something like LL_QE at this time?
If you run through a typical combat log you may well see times when LL isn't used for 10-15 seconds or more. The buff giving 400 AP (and 120 SP from Mental Quickness) is good to have and could boost lots of damage. The test we wanted to be able to do is ...

Is it worth doing a lava lash early if the buff has expired?

We can test this hypothesis if we have a LL_QE priority. So if its added to the sim we can run sims with it there and sims with it not there to see if there is any worthwhile effect.

[edit] The LL_QE priority should only be active if Totem of Quaking Earth is equipped. This might seem blindingly obvious but I though I'd mention it to ensure this test is present in the sim.
#2585SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylvand
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
If you run through a typical combat log you may well see times when LL isn't used for 10-15 seconds or more. The buff giving 400 AP (and 120 SP from Mental Quickness) is good to have and could boost lots of damage. The test we wanted to be able to do is ...

Is it worth doing a lava lash early if the buff has expired?

We can test this hypothesis if we have a LL_QE priority. So if its added to the sim we can run sims with it there and sims with it not there to see if there is any worthwhile effect.

[edit] The LL_QE priority should only be active if Totem of Quaking Earth is equipped. This might seem blindingly obvious but I though I'd mention it to ensure this test is present in the sim.
All right so rather than using LL as soon as the buff can be refreshed, its priority only gets boosted if the buff actually falls off? That should not be too difficult.
#2586SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
All right so rather than using LL as soon as the buff can be refreshed, its priority only gets boosted if the buff actually falls off? That should not be too difficult.
The way I implemented this in ShockAndAwe was to add the additional priority LL_QE with the test...

	function () 
		return not ShockAndAwe:GetBuffInfo(C["Volcanic Fury"]) and ShockAndAwe:SpellAvailable(C["Lava Lash"]) and ShockAndAwe:QuakingEarthEquipped()
	end
ie: if player has no Volcanic Fury buff and Lava Lash is available and QuakingEarth is equipped then activate priority.

It's probable position in the default queue is MW5_LB, LL_QE, ES_SS, SS, ES, LL, MT, LS. Testing with new sim will identify if this is a dps boost or not. FS might now appear in there somewhere too but thats a different issue.

So in this priority list LL only gets used ahead of SS, ES etc if there isn't a Volcanic Fury buff and player is using QE totem, otherwise the priority drops through to the next possible option. LL is therefore a completely different priority calc that has the simple conditional "is LL available".

Last edited by Levva : 09/29/09 at 12:31 PM.
#2587SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sylvand View Post
All right so rather than using LL as soon as the buff can be refreshed, its priority only gets boosted if the buff actually falls off? That should not be too difficult.

That should work since I don't think anyone is really going to be working out the timing to properly prioritize Lava Lash exactly 9 seconds after it was last refreshed. Boosting Lava Lash to a significantly higher priority when the buff falls off though is pretty simple and would fit within existing priority systems.

Maybe a good way to handle it would be to create a few new options for the priority list that would be dependent on the buffs/debuffs associated with them. Shouldn't be too hard to implement the following and they would cover most eventualities.

SS_noSS - Stormstrike when the debuff isn't on the target

LL_noQE - Lava Lash when ToQE's buff is missing

LS_noLS - refresh Lightning Shield when the buff has fallen off completely

So then these could be placed into the priority list where the user feels they would be appropriate. Then it would be possible to determine if it is better to hit SS when the debuff is missing or to hit MW opening the Sim up to a new level of theorycrafting where the priority list would be actively modified by the buffs and debuffs.
#2588SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mogadee
I have seen the occasion where SS on cd, shocks on cd, MT is down, <3 stack of MW, and LS does not need to refreshed with the QE buff at about 4 seconds left and LL not on cd. My point being, to have LL_QE only if the QE buff is off would be inaccurate. There are times when other spells are on cd and QE can be refreshed by LL while the buff is still up. So I think the LL_QE could have 2 parts to it in the sim. LL_QE if buff is off or if other spells (SS, ES, FS, etc.) are on cd and buff has less than x seconds remaining.
#2589SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Mogadee View Post
I have seen the occasion where SS on cd, shocks on cd, MT is down, <3 stack of MW, and LS does not need to refreshed with the QE buff at about 4 seconds left and LL not on cd. My point being, to have LL_QE only if the QE buff is off would be inaccurate. There are times when other spells are on cd and QE can be refreshed by LL while the buff is still up. So I think the LL_QE could have 2 parts to it in the sim. LL_QE if buff is off or if other spells (SS, ES, FS, etc.) are on cd and buff has less than x seconds remaining.
Seeing as you just listed everything that is traditionally above LL, the sim would just hit LL anyway, regardless of buff status.
#2590SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lokin
Hi everyone.
I have been using the Sim for over a year now and appreciate the work you did there. Lately though I do have a little trouble understanding ep values provided by the sim. Let me explain: the hasterating values (yes i know) i recieve are really messed up. I usually run several sims (100k h) and then take the median for my haste rating. Yet its pretty inconvenient to do so when the values range from 0.02-3.7. So I did some "research" and want to ask you for validation.
First off right now i have ~22% haste and its my favourite stat. I comapre it to hit because after the softhitcap hit scales pretty much linear and predictable up until the hardhitcap.
One note regarding the numbers I used below. Those are not supposed to be EP-Values.


Autoattack: Haste:1,27 Hit:1
In a time Intervall t 1% Hit converts an existing 1% miss into a 1% hit by pushing misses off the attack table which thus can neither crit, nor glance. 1% Haste, on the other hand, adds 1% atacks to t which can hit, crit, miss or glance(this is the part which I am not sure about). So in general we can expect 1% haste being worth 2.06*critrate(raidbuffed ~50%)+0.24*0.7(glancingblow rate * glancing blow dmg)+(1-missrate)*1(regular hit) resulting in 2.06*0.5+0.24*0.7+(1-0.93)*1 = 1.27

Windfury Haste:1 Hit:1
1% extra hits adds 1% possibilities für WF-Procs but due to the 3sec WF CD both stats just push the procs closer together yet they affect the damage of Windfury even when only a little

Flametongue Haste:1 Hit:1
No clear winner here 1% hits result in 1% extra FT-proccs, thus 1% extra damage.

Lightn.Bolt Haste:1 Hit:1
No clear winner here either. 1% extra hits result in 1% extra mw stacks

Shocks Haste:0 Hit:>0
While haste has absolutely no effect on shock damage, hit still can come in handy in those situations where the Spriest/Moonkin dies, is absent or attacks another target (Faction Champions, Northrend Beasts, Twins)

Lightn.Shield Haste:1 Hit:1 Similar situation to Lightning Bolt. More hits result in more procs.

Feral Spirit Haste:1 Hit:1 Similar situation to Autoattack. More hits result in more damage.

Totems Haste:0 Hit:0 No scaling

Stormstrike Haste:0 Hit:0 No scaling

Considering the possibility(which I am not sure about) of additional hits provided by haste, to ~50% crit and the resulting additional procs like Elemental devastation, Flurry, Unleashed Rage, haste should constantly (meaning even in the rare situations where additional haste results in less Windfury procs) be valued more than hit.

So writing that down can anyone tell me where my theory has a flaw? Since with Hit beeing at 1.7 and Haste at 0.02 after 2 100k sims it would mean that I can keep my Haste EP-Value at ~1.9-2.0.

PS: I am sorry for interrupting the FS,LL_QE etc discussion but I dont have anything to contribute to that section and, as far as from the many enhance theory threads i have read, haste rating still seems to cause trouble.
#2591SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
If you are getting haste EP values with a range of 0.02 up to 3.4 then you are doing something wrong. You should probably focus more on figuring that out then figuring out how haste's value relates to hit's value. That has never been a topic of interest to anyone anyway, as far as I can tell, with the debate about haste being centered around it's relative value to AP not to Hit.
#2592SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ciege
Heres the big thing about comparing the LL glyph with the WF glyph. WF glyph WILL NOT scale in the same manner as LL will. Will it scale? Yes of course, everything pretty much scales outside of buffs. The difference is how the glyphs work.

Glyph of Windfury increases the chance for your windfury weapon to proc by 2%, excluding internal cool down. Thus WF is going to scale directly off your melee crit chance with a SLIGHTLY increased chance to proc.

Glyph of Flame Strike gives your flame shock ticks a chance to crit. This is going to scale based off your spell crit chance.

In essence, if your melee crit is decent, 40% raid buffed, but your spell crit is low, 20%. More than likely you will see better numbers from the WF glyph. While if your spell crit chance is moderately higher raid buffed, 35% then you could see better numbers from FS.

BY NO MEANS AM I SAYING USE FS GLYPH OVER WF (or vice versa)! I'm just stating what is giving such varied numbers from shaman 1's gear as compared to shaman 2's gear. Basically there will be no clear winner unless your spell crit exceeds X% to give it more DPS than the WF glyph. No number crunching involed, just basic logic.

I felt i had to state this on the basis of shamans disagreeing, before you compare numbers, compare gear. As always as well, be sure to take into your full raid buffs, they potentially can make a huge difference.

PS: FS coefficient might need updating, 6 ticks now instead of 4.
#2593SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Ciege View Post
Heres the big thing about comparing the LL glyph with the WF glyph. WF glyph WILL NOT scale in the same manner as LL will. Will it scale? Yes of course, everything pretty much scales outside of buffs. The difference is how the glyphs work.

Glyph of Windfury increases the chance for your windfury weapon to proc by 2%, excluding internal cool down. Thus WF is going to scale directly off your melee crit chance with a SLIGHTLY increased chance to proc.

Glyph of Flame Strike gives your flame shock ticks a chance to crit. This is going to scale based off your spell crit chance.

In essence, if your melee crit is decent, 40% raid buffed, but your spell crit is low, 20%. More than likely you will see better numbers from the WF glyph. While if your spell crit chance is moderately higher raid buffed, 35% then you could see better numbers from FS.

BY NO MEANS AM I SAYING USE FS GLYPH OVER WF (or vice versa)! I'm just stating what is giving such varied numbers from shaman 1's gear as compared to shaman 2's gear. Basically there will be no clear winner unless your spell crit exceeds X% to give it more DPS than the WF glyph. No number crunching involed, just basic logic.

I felt i had to state this on the basis of shamans disagreeing, before you compare numbers, compare gear. As always as well, be sure to take into your full raid buffs, they potentially can make a huge difference.

PS: FS coefficient might need updating, 6 ticks now instead of 4.



1. Flame Shock coefficient didn't change. All they did was add an additional 2 ticks at the same exact amount as the previous ticks, basically just incorporating the old flame shock glyph directly into the spell.

2. Windfury Glyph scales very well since we have a few other mechanics that it affects. When WF procs it is 2 additional melee attacks and we have a couple of abilities that proc off melee hits, namely static shock and maelstrom weapon.

3. Do you really think that crit is the only thing that Windfury scales off of? See point 2 and realize that more WF procs also equals more lightning bolts and also realize that Windfury scales incredibly well off of AP too.
#2594SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cochice
I know there was some talk about representing the FS changes in the current version of the sim. The logical change would be to add 2 Piece elemental t8, and add the old flame shock glyph. But the sim isn't recognizing worldbreaker_garb_2 for me. I know that t7 and t9 are both usable as naxx_nuker and t9_regalia. Is the t8 elemental set in there under a different name? Or did it just never get coded in?

I'm using 1.8.3.3a.

Unrelated side note going back to a few pages ago: Levva, the new FS dot bar is great. It is incredibly useful, thanks!
#2595SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3pintor
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
I know there was some talk about representing the FS changes in the current version of the sim. The logical change would be to add 2 Piece elemental t8, and add the old flame shock glyph. But the sim isn't recognizing worldbreaker_garb_2 for me. I know that t7 and t9 are both usable as naxx_nuker and t9_regalia. Is the t8 elemental set in there under a different name? Or did it just never get coded in?

I'm using 1.8.3.3a.

Unrelated side note going back to a few pages ago: Levva, the new FS dot bar is great. It is incredibly useful, thanks!
edit: misread. It seems it is not implemented in the sim.
#2596SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Lokin
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
If you are getting haste EP values with a range of 0.02 up to 3.4 then you are doing something wrong. You should probably focus more on figuring that out then figuring out how haste's value relates to hit's value. That has never been a topic of interest to anyone anyway, as far as I can tell, with the debate about haste being centered around it's relative value to AP not to Hit.
It seems that I failed to explain my problem properly but this was actually supposed to be the point. Until ~20% haste the sim provided me with pretty conservative EP-Values for all stats, meaning hit ~1.5, crit ~1.7, int ~1.5, haste ~1.8, ap 1.0 etc. But after 20% haste the mess began. The values were ranging from 0.1-3.5 going up to 28% haste in 0.5% steps (I actually did 2-3 100k h sims per 0.5% step). Since I did not change anything (raidbuffs, prioritylist, etc) between those simulations and considering the fact that all other stats except of haste did not change their value (well +-0.05 due to sim) I thought maybe haste ranges >20% cause problems in the sim. The choice of comparing haste to hit (in contrary to let's say crit or agi) was that, with hit beeing softcapped but not hardcapped, they work pretty similar by adding extra hits to the table. Thus they should(according to my theory of which I am not sure about) scale similar.

Last edited by Lokin : 09/30/09 at 9:48 AM.
#2597SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Lokin View Post
It seems that I failed to explain my problem properly but this was actually supposed to be the point. Until ~20% haste the sim provided me with pretty conservative EP-Values for all stats, meaning hit ~1.5, crit ~1.7, int ~1.5, haste ~1.8, ap 1.0 etc. But after 20% haste the mess began. The values were ranging from 0.1-3.5 going up to 28% haste in 0.5% steps (I actually did 2-3 100k h sims per 0.5% step). Since I did not change anything (raidbuffs, prioritylist, etc) between those simulations and considering the fact that all other stats except of haste did not change their value (well +-0.5 due to sim) I thought maybe haste ranges >20% cause problems in the sim. The choice of comparing haste to hit (in contrary to let's say crit or agi) was that, with hit beeing softcapped but not hardcapped, they work pretty similar by adding extra hits to the table. Thus they should(according to my theory of which I am not sure about) scale similar.
So the problem is a pseudo-issue? By that I mean is it one that only occurs when you are manipulating the values of the sim or are you actually using Rawr and getting to those points through real gear?

I just created a set in Rawr that prioritizes haste above all else. ToEW, basically all haste gems, Comet's Trail, Quick Dragon's Eyes and Hyperaccelerators. Expertise capped and above the spell hit cap with 798 haste rating which is 31.64% melee haste and then I exported it to EnhSim and ran EP values off it with a 40 step for haste and the EP value for haste came out to 1.63 which is pretty much what I expected. Hit rating with the same step gave a value of 1.87, also pretty much what I expected.

Then I replaced all those haste gems with AP gems dropping the set down to 578 haste rating which is 22.92% melee haste and reran EP values using the same steps. EP value for haste for that set shows 1.74 and the value for hit shows at 1.97 so I'm thinking you are doing something wrong since both of these runs were done above 20% haste with pretty divergent values and yet the EP values are remarkably similar.

Are you making sure to increase melee and spell haste by proper amounts? Keep in mind that we get 25% more melee haste per rating point then spell haste so if you are increasing them both by equal amounts you are giving the sim improper information.
#2598SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Klillestol
EP Values vs. Simming

Hey guys,

Sorry for the elementary question here, but I'm new to using EnhSim and was hoping someone could help. I recently got an upgrade with an empty gem slot. For most of the other classes I have played, gemming is pretty straightforward. For my Survival Hunter, it's just Meta requirements and then Agi, Agi, and more Agi. However, Enhancement Shaman (as I'm sure you all know) are a bit unique in that Haste and AP seem to be very competitive with each other.

I followed the instructions I found and loaded my character into EnhSim. I did two different things:

1) I ran a bunch of simulations, manually adjusting my stats (I left the gem slot empty) to simulate the difference between a Haste and AP gem. In these simulations, Haste came out slightly ahead.
2) I ran "Calculate EP values" to see what would happen. In these numbers, it showed AP = 1.0, Crit = 2.30, Agi = 1.93, Haste = 1.75.

Questions:

- Is method #1 the "preferred way" to figure out the best gem?
- For the EP values, it showed a very high value for Crit and even Agi, yet I have found very little to support that any serious Enhance Shaman are gemming that way. Also, is 1.0 for AP expected?

Thanks!
#2599SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Enkeedu
Originally Posted by Klillestol View Post
Hey guys,

Sorry for the elementary question here, but I'm new to using EnhSim and was hoping someone could help. I recently got an upgrade with an empty gem slot. For most of the other classes I have played, gemming is pretty straightforward. For my Survival Hunter, it's just Meta requirements and then Agi, Agi, and more Agi. However, Enhancement Shaman (as I'm sure you all know) are a bit unique in that Haste and AP seem to be very competitive with each other.

I followed the instructions I found and loaded my character into EnhSim. I did two different things:

1) I ran a bunch of simulations, manually adjusting my stats (I left the gem slot empty) to simulate the difference between a Haste and AP gem. In these simulations, Haste came out slightly ahead.
2) I ran "Calculate EP values" to see what would happen. In these numbers, it showed AP = 1.0, Crit = 2.30, Agi = 1.93, Haste = 1.75.

Questions:

- Is method #1 the "preferred way" to figure out the best gem?
- For the EP values, it showed a very high value for Crit and even Agi, yet I have found very little to support that any serious Enhance Shaman are gemming that way. Also, is 1.0 for AP expected?

Thanks!
I'd say that running the sim is probably the best way to compare configurations, but it can be tricky to modify the stats directly (see Rouncer's post above about different melee/spell haste scales). That said, I always use EP values when I'm comparing gems. I'm intrigued at how a haste gem sim'd to more dps than an AP gem when the EP for haste is 1.75. I would expect that haste would have to have an EP of more than 2.0 for it to be better than AP (AP gem is 40, haste gem is 20).

Oh, and AP will always be worth 1. It is the stat that all EP ratings are scaling off of. EP stands for "equivalency points" iirc, and in your example above, 1 haste is equivalent to 1.75 AP.
#2600SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Horac
Originally Posted by Klillestol View Post
I followed the instructions I found and loaded my character into EnhSim. I did two different things:

1) I ran a bunch of simulations, manually adjusting my stats (I left the gem slot empty) to simulate the difference between a Haste and AP gem. In these simulations, Haste came out slightly ahead.
2) I ran "Calculate EP values" to see what would happen. In these numbers, it showed AP = 1.0, Crit = 2.30, Agi = 1.93, Haste = 1.75.

Questions:

- Is method #1 the "preferred way" to figure out the best gem?
- For the EP values, it showed a very high value for Crit and even Agi, yet I have found very little to support that any serious Enhance Shaman are gemming that way. Also, is 1.0 for AP expected?

Thanks!
I think your example here is the primary reason for the discussion around removing or lowering the emphasis of EP. At the end of the day, EP is just an estimate of how valuable each stat is compared to other stats in your current gear.

The bold part I think is important. EP works ok as a general guide for both gear and gem selection. But because of how EP is calculated it will always be better to sim different gear/gem sets and compare the results to get an idea of which is better for your gear setup. Because each piece of gear comes with 5 or 6 different stats on it, changing even a single piece of gear can have an impact on the EP calculation.

If you want accurate information about how a piece of gear or gem change will effect your dps use the sim. If you want a rough estimate for quick and dirty changes use EP. Just be aware that using EP may result in less optimal results because of how EP fluctuates with changes to your gear setup.
#2601SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Cochice
Originally Posted by Klillestol View Post
Hey guys,

Sorry for the elementary question here, but I'm new to using EnhSim and was hoping someone could help. I recently got an upgrade with an empty gem slot. For most of the other classes I have played, gemming is pretty straightforward. For my Survival Hunter, it's just Meta requirements and then Agi, Agi, and more Agi. However, Enhancement Shaman (as I'm sure you all know) are a bit unique in that Haste and AP seem to be very competitive with each other.

I followed the instructions I found and loaded my character into EnhSim. I did two different things:

1) I ran a bunch of simulations, manually adjusting my stats (I left the gem slot empty) to simulate the difference between a Haste and AP gem. In these simulations, Haste came out slightly ahead.
2) I ran "Calculate EP values" to see what would happen. In these numbers, it showed AP = 1.0, Crit = 2.30, Agi = 1.93, Haste = 1.75.

Questions:

- Is method #1 the "preferred way" to figure out the best gem?
- For the EP values, it showed a very high value for Crit and even Agi, yet I have found very little to support that any serious Enhance Shaman are gemming that way. Also, is 1.0 for AP expected?

Thanks!
EP values are all relative to AP, which is always going to have a value of 1. In terms of stat value, there will always be 2 AP per 1 agi/crit/haste etc. So for anything to be more valuable than AP, it needs an EP of >2. In your case, Crit has this and nothing else. I am, however, surprised that you have such a high EP for crit.

Number 2 is an acceptable way to find your best choice for gemming given your current gear. As soon as you swap your gear, though, your numbers will very likely change.


[e] Enkeedu beat me to it, I'm not sure how I missed that post.

Last edited by Cochice : 09/30/09 at 4:57 PM.
#2602SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
I'm beginning to wonder if the EP values are actually indicative to what is an actual upgrade stat wise. After simming several notable players stats - at least those that are stacking haste - I find that their haste EP drops well below 2.0 and in some cases as low as 1.6 per point. Strangely enough, replacing one 20 haste gem at a time with 40 ap results in a lower overall simulated DPS while replacing 1 40 ap gem with 1 20 haste gem results in a higher simulated dps. This seems to completely contradict what ep values the sim is actually giving us. Even with the BiS setup with ep ranges set at default, haste was only returning a 2.08 EP value!!
#2603SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Cochice
Originally Posted by Deathicle View Post
I'm beginning to wonder if the EP values are actually indicative to what is an actual upgrade stat wise. After simming several notable players stats - at least those that are stacking haste - I find that their haste EP drops well below 2.0 and in some cases as low as 1.6 per point. Strangely enough, replacing one 20 haste gem at a time with 40 ap results in a lower overall simulated DPS while replacing 1 40 ap gem with 1 20 haste gem results in a higher simulated dps. This seems to completely contradict what ep values the sim is actually giving us. Even with the BiS setup with ep ranges set at default, haste was only returning a 2.08 EP value!!
I stopped trusting the sim's value of haste on any matter. In game I treat it equal to AP when comparing pieces (pawn value of 2). Even though my current value is technically 2.64. I just figure it's a good stat when we can get it, but going out of your way to gear for it isn't beneficial. Wonky stat is wonky.
#2604SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3saberwolfcdw
Has Anyone done any Simulating to see how good the tier 8 4 set bonus if its worth keeping till you get the T9 4set cause the t9 2set is complete fail. I have tried it with and without having that set bonus by switching out my tier pants for emblem ones and the only real difference is 2% crit for 2% haste and the set bonus of course. I havent seen any major DPS changes but maybe I am just over looking stuff...Any ideas would be great...thanks in advance
#2605SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
I stopped trusting the sim's value of haste on any matter. In game I treat it equal to AP when comparing pieces (pawn value of 2). Even though my current value is technically 2.64. I just figure it's a good stat when we can get it, but going out of your way to gear for it isn't beneficial. Wonky stat is wonky.
I too use an EP value for haste other than the computed enhsim output. It's not that I disagree with the sim's valuation of haste for a particular gear set, it's just that the relative value of haste can change a lot from small changes in gear stats. However rather than normalize haste to attack power, I normalize to hit (past spell cap), based on the assertions made in this post a couple months back:

Enhancement Trinkets
#2606SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Deathicle View Post
I'm beginning to wonder if the EP values are actually indicative to what is an actual upgrade stat wise. After simming several notable players stats - at least those that are stacking haste - I find that their haste EP drops well below 2.0 and in some cases as low as 1.6 per point. Strangely enough, replacing one 20 haste gem at a time with 40 ap results in a lower overall simulated DPS while replacing 1 40 ap gem with 1 20 haste gem results in a higher simulated dps. This seems to completely contradict what ep values the sim is actually giving us. Even with the BiS setup with ep ranges set at default, haste was only returning a 2.08 EP value!!
You're using EP wrong. EP tells you what would happen if you added X of Y stat on top of what your current gearset gives. It's not going to tell you how to switch your gems. That's what RAWR and export to EnhSim is for. Also the default EP step for haste is 30 whereas the gem you're adding is 20.
#2607SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Deathicle
Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
You're using EP wrong. EP tells you what would happen if you added X of Y stat on top of what your current gearset gives. It's not going to tell you how to switch your gems. That's what RAWR and export to EnhSim is for. Also the default EP step for haste is 30 whereas the gem you're adding is 20.
Right. And adding 20 haste seems to be doing more for my sim than adding 40 ap, despite it having a lower EP value. Not only that, but I refuse to believe that the simulator's haste value is the 'prefect' haste value needed before it goes under 2.0 again. Blizzard is not that prescient.

But you dont have to take my word for it. Simply remove the haste gems from the BiS setup and replace them with 40 ap gems 1 at a time and sim for EP. Remarkable watching haste stay below 2.0 throughout most of the transition yet apparently resulting in higher dps.

Last edited by Deathicle : 10/01/09 at 1:49 AM.
#2608SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Gak
Has anyone else been getting crazy numbers for intelligence? Mine is currently 4.25 which seems way out compared to crit of 1.98 and haste of 1.75.
#2609SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Krish
Originally Posted by Gak View Post
Has anyone else been getting crazy numbers for intelligence? Mine is currently 4.25 which seems way out compared to crit of 1.98 and haste of 1.75.
If you had searched this thread you'd find several posts just like yours, with several responses just like mine. You have simulate mana turned on but probably don't have Shamanistic Rage in your priority order (it should be at the top). This means that the sim is under the impression that you're OOM.
#2610SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Schahmaar
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
I stopped trusting the sim's value of haste on any matter. In game I treat it equal to AP when comparing pieces (pawn value of 2). Even though my current value is technically 2.64. I just figure it's a good stat when we can get it, but going out of your way to gear for it isn't beneficial. Wonky stat is wonky.
Hm, this sounds really strange to me. The discussion is always about using AP or Haste...what I found with simulating my gear was that Crit always yielded slightly more DPS than haste but neither Haste nor Crit was better than AP (Raid-Buffed crit is somewhere at 35-40%). And, additionally, I'm talking about a difference of 4-5 DPS for gemming AP, Haste or Crit. This, at least for me, is consistent with what the EP calculation tells me. May it be that the issues, you are talking about, are very gear depending, anyway?
#2611SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
The bottom line here is that EP values are currently not what they once were. Back in the olden days we were able to state this is the EP values for T1, T2 etc. Even up to T6 gear we were able to give fairly sensible static values for EP so it was dead easy to compare gear you simply multiplied up the stats and compared two EP totals.

Then came WotLK and haste effects. Over the last year it has become painfully apparent that we cannot give a fixed set of EP values and hence the oft repeated mantra "You have to sim it for yourself". EP values were removed from the TTT and the mantra firmly took its place. Yet still people clinged to the notion that they could simply multiply up the stats to compare two items. Worse still people still cling to the ooohh stat X has > 2 EP I better "stack" that stat. This usually led to wild re-gemming/re-enchanting for the new stat costing hundreds of gold, often with disappointing results.

Now we are gradually coming to the realisation that doing any form of EP value stat comparison is really quite a bad idea given the current volatility of haste etc. The biggest issue is that the amount of effort it takes to work out how best to set up your gear. To setup the sim for multiple runs takes a lot of calculation. Doing this manually is a pain as it takes ages to switch around even a gem or two and re-run the results, Rawr's export helps of course and takes the tedium out of it and reduces the opportunity for errors to slip in. The other option is Rawr's optimiser and this is amazing, the issue is that the underlying calculations are decent but not as sound or as thorough as EnhSim.

So what to do? Personally I've given up entirely on using EP values. What I do is to use Rawr to predict optimisation of current gear and then CHECK the suggestion using Export to EnhSim. The ability of Rawr to hone in on a best setup is wonderful, if only EnhSim could have this feature or I could get Rawr to make a call to EnhSim as a dll so that its optimiaser was using EnhSim to calc the dps.

Perhaps this is a longer term goal? Add an option to EnhSim for a direct API call and provide a EnhSim.dll compiled from the current code. Then in Rawr I could add an option that the optimiser would make an API call with the config it wanted to test. The big issue is that it would take upwards of several hours to run. Rawr's optimiser runs several thousand possible combos of gear to find an optimal set. Running the sim a few thousand times even with a low 1000h config is going to take ages.
#2612SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Xiaoang
I've always used EnhSim rather than Rawr to generate EPs and then use Pawn to compare gear and upgrades. And I have always gemmed for straight AP once hit and exp capped as Enhsim never gave me a EP higher than 2.0 for any stat when I used a range the same as the total stat gain form all of my sockets.

Rawr optimiser really seems to favour hit and haste though over AP and crit which are my two highest EPs otherwise. From your above post Levva, would I be best following what Rawr says then?
#2613SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
Originally Posted by Deathicle View Post
Right. And adding 20 haste seems to be doing more for my sim than adding 40 ap, despite it having a lower EP value. Not only that, but I refuse to believe that the simulator's haste value is the 'prefect' haste value needed before it goes under 2.0 again. Blizzard is not that prescient.

But you dont have to take my word for it. Simply remove the haste gems from the BiS setup and replace them with 40 ap gems 1 at a time and sim for EP. Remarkable watching haste stay below 2.0 throughout most of the transition yet apparently resulting in higher dps.
I probably wasn't clear but that's exactly what I was getting at. By setting your EP step to 30 (the default) you are adding what are probably 20 high value haste points followed by 10 lower value haste points which average out to the EP you saw. Basically, you are taking the EP you get from adding 30 haste and apply that EP to a 20 haste increase and expecting that EP to bear out (which it does not). There are some graphs around that show how quickly haste goes through peaks and valleys.

Also, you have to understand EP is derived from DPS so saying the "DPS value of haste is high, even though the ep is low" makes absolutely no sense. I showed a while back that there is nothing wrong with the DPS calculations brought forth using the Calculate EP Button. It was giving the same DPS on the base and EP stat calcs as it would if I manually added those stats and did a normal sim.
#2614SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Xiaoang View Post
I've always used EnhSim rather than Rawr to generate EPs and then use Pawn to compare gear and upgrades. And I have always gemmed for straight AP once hit and exp capped as Enhsim never gave me a EP higher than 2.0 for any stat when I used a range the same as the total stat gain form all of my sockets.

Rawr optimiser really seems to favour hit and haste though over AP and crit which are my two highest EPs otherwise. From your above post Levva, would I be best following what Rawr says then?
If Astrylian the Rawr creator had his way the EP values tab would completely disappear, unfortunately he doesn't get rid of it because of the wailing and gnashing of teeth he fears from users if he did.

If you assume that the EP values display doesn't exist at all in Rawr you are going to get dramatically better results than if you even glance at it. Bottom line NEVER EVER use Rawr for EP values. EP values are crap at the best of times Rawr ones I never look at and would advise you do the same. Note the massive red disclaimer text saying DON'T rely on this.

If you really really really can't do without the crutch of EP values and you simply must delude yourself that they are meaningful then stick to EnhSim's EP values results.

Your gearing would be significantly better if you just ran EnhSim to get DPS results and ignored EP values as a quaint relic of past times.


Rawr's Optimiser

Perhaps its worth clearing up how this works. What Rawr does for ANY gear setup is to run through a full set of calculations, eg: amount of hit,miss etc for white dmg, yellow dmg, spells etc. crit rates, talent effects proc chances etc. At the core of the code is effectively a routine that takes a set of Stats and returns a dps value. The set of stats is made up of the gear + gems + enchants + buffs.

Now the graphs you see in Rawr - eg: showing the head slot items. What it does is get a Stats object with your current gear, gems etc and assumes your head slot is empty. It calls the dps routine and gets a value. This is the base value with that slot empty. It then looks at all the head slot items with relevant stats (ie: AP, hit, crit, Agi etc and ignores things like spirit) and it generates a new Stats object for your gear + the item. It runs the dps routine and gets a new value. Subtracting base value from the new value gets a dps figure for that new item. THIS is the number you see in the chart.

It does this for every item in your item cache. So if you see 40 items in the head slot chart it ran the sim 41 times. A base calc + 40 sims one for each item. This is surprising to most people as its really quite fast.

The optimiser works in exactly the same way. You mark the items, gems, enchants etc that you have available (in bags/bank/known skills etc) anything that you want to swap around to possibly improve your current setup. It does a base calc first, then tries lots of different combos of gear. Each and every combo it tries it does a FULL sim of and gets back a dps figure. The calculation is the same its just different gear its trying.

It works on the basis of honing in on what combo of gear is giving the best result. Each time it changes something its trying to get closer and closer to an optimum set from what is available. This often means it does a few thousand runs of the sim from start to finish. Each one on a slightly different setup each one generating a new dps figure. When its done it presents the result.


Now at present there seems to be a bug that at certain points suddenly makes hit seem to be the stat that gives higher dps. I suspect this is to do with a rounding error but as yet I haven't found the issue. The point is when its found the optimiser will still do exactly what it did in the past. ie: run the sim thousands of times. It will still pick the gear with the highest dps. Its just that the gear it uses will not have the bug with hit.

Note that NOTHING in this process involved EP values at any stage. RAWR DOES NOT USE EP VALUES AT ALL. In fact neither does EnhSim.

Last edited by Levva : 10/01/09 at 9:40 AM.
#2615SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
If Astrylian the Rawr creator had his way the EP values tab would completely disappear, unfortunately he doesn't get rid of it because of the wailing and gnashing of teeth he fears from users if he did.

If you assume that the EP values display doesn't exist at all in Rawr you are going to get dramatically better results than if you even glance at it. Bottom line NEVER EVER use Rawr for EP values. EP values are crap at the best of times Rawr ones I never look at and would advise you do the same. Note the massive red disclaimer text saying DON'T rely on this.

If you really really really can't do without the crutch of EP values and you simply must delude yourself that they are meaningful then stick to EnhSim's EP values results.

Your gearing would be significantly better if you just ran EnhSim to get DPS results and ignored EP values as a quaint relic of past times.
I think you are deluding yourself. Again. This EP bashing happens with a couple of months between. It's getting really old.

EP isn't magic numbers that solves your DPS and gearing issues instantly. It's not silly digits drawn randomly from a hat to delude people into thinking "stat X gud" either. EP is stat weighing based on DPS gains by introducing more of said stat. And that's it. Any added problems due to this, like removing another stat, reaching a soft/hard cap, diminishing returns and whatnot, are problems outside of actual EP. Yes, it's too bad that gear doesn't come as stat X+5% as EP would be a lot easier but that's just not how itemization is. Yes, it's far better to calculate individual sets and see how that affects your personal DPS. Yes, EP just shows trends in stat weighing. But this is known factors for a lot of us. We know of EP's limitations and keep them in mind when working with EP. So for all that do this, you propose removing the only source of looking at all gear to see trends in upgrade paths, just to get what? Shots in the dark with Rawr exports into EnhSim? Rawr has to use something to weigh gear and EnhSim takes too long to individually calculate sets.

Warning newbes is fine. Explaining the shortcomings of EP to people that don't understanding it is fine. Spreading FUD about EP is not fine.
#2616SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by Raut View Post
Rawr has to use something to weigh gear
No it doesn't sorry but this is a complete misconception. Rawr DOES NOT use ANY weights AT ALL in its calculations. It works in the same manner as EnhSim.

The difference between the two and the reason the EnhSim is dramatically more accurate is that EnhSim actually does step by step blow by blow calculations as if you were in actual combat, and runs this over thousands of hours of simulated combat. Rawr by comparison uses the same formulae and the same calculations but assumes that if something procs 50% of the time to give 100AP then the average AP it will give is 50.

Both sims use the same calculations, both give similar results, both work out EP values in exactly the same manner. EnhSim takes longer because its doing a proper genuine simulation, Rawr on the other hand is using averages so that it gets the result really quickly. In neither sim are EP values used to work out DPS they never have been and never will be.



I do take on board your comments about what EP values are but seriously extremely few people actually understand that. The vast majority of people time and time again assume they can get a set of EP values and that tells them how to gear/gem/enchant.

In fact the most common misconception is still very true, people will still try to multiply up the stats on one item with their EP values and compare it to the multiplied up stats on another item. This was fine when EP values were static it simply isn't viable these days and produces some very misleading results. We do seem to agree on this.

Whilst I do appreciate that FUD is perhaps unwelcome. We do need a massive amount of re-education about what EP values actually are. In that vein encouraging people to simply use EnhSim to get their dps values change their gear and run it again to get a new dps value is far far better than ever speaking about EP values.

EPs are fine for guiding you but shouldn't be used these days to actually compare items. They are just too unreliable for accurate comparisons especially where haste is involved.

Last edited by Levva : 10/01/09 at 10:03 AM.
#2617SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Please don't take bits out of context like that. It looks like I'm implying that Rawr uses EP or something like it with your comment.

I understand the fundamentals of Rawr. It's a solid tool of those specs that are fully supported. We both know this isn't happening with enhance anytime soon. Your approach to a hybrid (pun not intended) solution with Rawr and EnhSim looks really good and is a step up from basic EnhSim. I really mean that.

What grinds my gears is that EP is blamed for ignorant and/or stupid people. I know that 90+% of all EP discussions are simply a waste of time as the person asking them should stay the fuck away from EP all together. I'm just not happy losing this tool because of said people.

An example of how EP is pretty nifty compared to raw DPS comparisons:

You progress through tier X and gain the usual stats, little to no haste. EP is a,b,c, etc. You enter tier X+1 and gain some more of the usual stats and some haste. EP suddenly change and give haste a new value of, say, 1.8 EP up from 1.1. In your Rawr gear comparison window, you don't see this. Your gems may still be hit for yellow and your gear is a mix of most beneficial stats. You're not aware that haste is potentially up to take over AP in pure DPS. You'll still find the BiS gear by Rawr/EnhSim if your checklist is long enough, so that's not the problem. But you've lost the ability to see the stat trend. The next run you do may change all your gems to haste and you never saw it coming.
#2618SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
In your example what you would see is in Rawr it suddenly re-optimising your gear for haste. It sounds like you haven't really used Rawr all that much. Its primary benefit is in the optimiser which looks at thousands of possible combos of items/gems/enchants etc you mark as available and works out the highest dps combo. This is an amazingly good part of the program. Even if you didn't run the optimiser all the graphs would show gemmings suggesting higher dps from haste. This works only if you have turned on show gemming combos.

It also sounds like you haven't used it much lately its come on leaps and bounds in the last month or so and gives pretty damned good results at present. There is always issues of course - the same is true of EnhSim (just look at its issue tracker), however I do my best to solve these as and when people point them out. The sanity check of exporting data to EnhSim is of course something I'd expect every elitist jerk reader to be doing and not just relying on Rawr's closed solution methodology.

I'd agree that we shouldn't entirely abandon EP values. However I'd like to see a re-focusing of attention away from them towards iterative solutions and graphing. The new graph features added to Enhsim should help this. The aim is to find any local maximums/minimums that might exist with stats close to what you currently have equipped. This would then give a visual representation that by changing stats from X to Y you would get a dps increase.

I totally agree we should have a means of seeing where small changes to gear might give decent returns, EP values have too much baggage for this in my view and so alternatives should be found. This does NOT mean dropping the idea all together is what I am after. I suspect you are taking my antipathy to the way people treat EP values (note not the values themselves) as meaning I want no method of indicating what direction to take to improve our gear. This isn't true.
#2619SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3frozndevl
Levva - You mentioned a graphing feature within Enhsim, but this is the first I have seem mention of this. Is this in a dev version that has not been released to the general public? I was unable to locate any tickets or description of this on the codeplex site.
#2620SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3maelfus
I would love to see a graphed EP chart. I expect though that it is going to take a pretty significant rewrite to be able to do that in its current state. I was going to suggest it for jEnhSim as that would be a much more probably place for implementation.

Either way, if it makes it's way into the current incarnation, it will solve a lot of the uncertainty I've had about gemming for AP vs Haste.
#2621SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ciege
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
1. Flame Shock coefficient didn't change. All they did was add an additional 2 ticks at the same exact amount as the previous ticks, basically just incorporating the old flame shock glyph directly into the spell.

2. Windfury Glyph scales very well since we have a few other mechanics that it affects. When WF procs it is 2 additional melee attacks and we have a couple of abilities that proc off melee hits, namely static shock and maelstrom weapon.

3. Do you really think that crit is the only thing that Windfury scales off of? See point 2 and realize that more WF procs also equals more lightning bolts and also realize that Windfury scales incredibly well off of AP too.
I have seen Lightning Bolt crits over 11k and my Windfury crits, even with both hits critting, have yet to reach that point. Also noteworthy is that because Windfury has an internal cool down of 3 seconds (not 100% confirmed, but it is believed to be somewhere in that range) it in essence places a cool down on the windfury glyph.

While all shocks have cool downs, Flame Shock has a dot time of 18 seconds, so even while on cool down it still doing damage, and allows you to use Earth shock and Maelstrom Weapon charges for Lightning Bolt.

What i was REALLY saying is the comparison of which glyph is going to be better will be based off your Melee Crit chance VS your Spell Crit Chance, raid buffed. Low spell crit means the dot ticks will have less of a chance to crit, thus the value of this glyph will be lower. I'm not mentioning your melee crit here because more than likely it will be quite high most of the time during raids.

In testing of this glyph, I have found it to provide me a DPS increase in 25 mans, where i have a more raid buffs, and not as much in 10 mans. Still have to do more testing of course but this is just what I have found so far.

PS: Please pardon grammer and spelling ive been awake for all of 10 minutes now.
#2622SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bestpike
I think abandoning EP values over more sophisticated ways to calculate upgrades in gear seems a bit trivial. I mean, item upgrade choices usually dont have many options on what we want anyway. Let's say you have Belt of Dragons and the 245 level belt dropped (belt of Deathly dominion). You are going to take it because the stat difference is massive (so its surely an upgrade even if minimal) and there isnt really any other choice. So if you actually did a pretty intelligent theorycrafting you are pidgeon-holed in a single item and your calculations didn't provide any real results.

About gemming, we have around 12-14 gem slots average. Lets say the educated person used his real calculations and found out that he should gem with some stat that in reality has for example 2.1EP. Another person uses Enhsim EP values that are quite false, so while thinking he is gemming with for example a 2.1EP stat, in reality it has a pretty low 1.6EP.

The first player is gaining 504-588 real EP. The second player because of his ignorance will be gaining 384- 448 EP. The average EP bonus the first player will gain through his hard work is around 130EP, which equals usually to about 1% more DPS. This difference wont even show up in real raid encounters, and this is the maximum that can exist (2.1EP vs 1.6EP is pretty huge).

It seems to me that this game isn't punishing enough people for not being educated and not knowing what they are doing, or looking it on the other side of the coin, it isn't rewarding players very much that actually want to search things a bit more.

Maybe we should just stay with the EP values and focus more on DPS priorities and cycles, where some real difference can be made. But of course it all depends on how much time and thought someone is prepared to invest compared to the results he is getting.
#2623SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Krish
Originally Posted by bestpike View Post
I think abandoning EP values over more sophisticated ways to calculate upgrades in gear seems a bit trivial. I mean, item upgrade choices usually dont have many options on what we want anyway. Let's say you have Belt of Dragons and the 245 level belt dropped (belt of Deathly dominion). You are going to take it because the stat difference is massive (so its surely an upgrade even if minimal) and there isnt really any other choice.
I'd disagree a bit here. The 245 Deathly Dominion is, if your EP values are similar to mine, a very very small DPS upgrade (whereas the 258 is BiS and a significant upgrade). Knowing this at a glance, and that say a hunter in your guild gets far more from it, would be a benefit to your guild (and therefore to you) by being a much larger raid DPS upgrade from his belt of dragons. If we really wanted to just say "this is new and from a higher tier of content, it must be an upgrade, /roll", then we wouldn't be discussing it here and spending time trying to understand our own gearing through the sim.
#2624SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
bestpike
Originally Posted by Krish View Post
I'd disagree a bit here. The 245 Deathly Dominion is, if your EP values are similar to mine, a very very small DPS upgrade (whereas the 258 is BiS and a significant upgrade). Knowing this at a glance, and that say a hunter in your guild gets far more from it, would be a benefit to your guild (and therefore to you) by being a much larger raid DPS upgrade from his belt of dragons. If we really wanted to just say "this is new and from a higher tier of content, it must be an upgrade, /roll", then we wouldn't be discussing it here and spending time trying to understand our own gearing through the sim.
Well i don't know where we disagree. If your EP values say that this is a very small upgrade of course you should pass on it.

The belt was meant as an example to show that often there aren't many choices of upgrades anyway and that generally massive stat upgrades won't leave you with lower dps IF your calculations of your EP values are faulty. I never said that someone should decide to take an item because of its higher level.

By the way, how small upgrade of DPS is it? If you could pm me your EP values it would be nice.

Edit: I think the misunderstanding happened because of something i didn't express well. With "You are going to take it because the stat difference is massive (so its surely an upgrade even if minimal)" i meant that "You are probably going to take it because at most occassions the EP value comparison of the two items will show that the 245 belt is better".

Last edited by bestpike : 10/04/09 at 8:01 AM.
#2625SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Boro
Originally Posted by Levva View Post

Now at present there seems to be a bug that at certain points suddenly makes hit seem to be the stat that gives higher dps. I suspect this is to do with a rounding error but as yet I haven't found the issue. The point is when its found the optimiser will still do exactly what it did in the past. ie: run the sim thousands of times. It will still pick the gear with the highest dps. Its just that the gear it uses will not have the bug with hit.
What Levva said here is the most annoying thing I have found with the RAWR Optimizer at the moment. Constantly, placing hit with values 600+. The method I have used has been to use RAWR get something that feels 'right', export it to EnhSim and check it out. Quick, easy and without exception has with each addition to gear or change in tier sets, translated into improved dps. An understanding of the 'differnt' types of boss fights (movement, static, etc) means I may swap to a haste build or go more with an AP/Crit build. But the great thing about RAWR it gives you the opportunity do 'what if's' quickly.

I stopped using EP values at the start of Ulduar, largely because I started using RAWR. It just simplified the whole gear decison making process for me. However, with this inflated Hit value I am getting at the moment I am having real difficulties being half way sure as to which way to go at the moment from a gemming point of view. I took the [] (haven't seen the Axe yet) and now I am trying to work out wether to use it in my OH over [Caress of Insanity] But I simply do not trust the inflated hit at the moment. On some optimise runs I am getting Caress as the choice on others the Cudgel but either way inflated hit.

I have often tried explaining to guildies the complexity of working out what is and what is not an upgrade for an Enhancement Shaman and how it seems changing one piece of gear can mean a large regemming excerise.

It would be interesting if anyone would like to armory my profile to see what they get in RAWR because after literally hundreds of RAWR and sim runs over the last two weeks I am spending longer in the sim and RAWR than I am in Ulduar and ToGC put together. This seems some what ironic.

Last edited by Boro : 10/04/09 at 9:34 AM.
#2626SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Brynmor
Not to stray terribly off topic but about your OH slot; I ran into a similar problem several weeks ago when I got the 245 ilevel axe from 25 Anub'arak. I figured it should've been an upgrade over my Caress of Insanity but it didn't sim as being an upgrade. Since the FT coefficient scales up with weapon speed the 2.7 speed Caress will beat any 2.6 speed weapons but 258 ilevel weapons (nothing conclusive on Raging Deathbringer yet though). I don't play an orc however though I would surmise that the 245 axes would probably be a DPS upgrade in your OH if you needed the expertise.
#2627SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Brynmor, you are wrong about Caress. Even for non-orcs, the ilevel 245 axe from HAnub-10 is the superior weapon. Most likely your misinformation is because you are not changing your offhand speed to account for the bug with matched weapons and Flurry charges in the sim.

Change your offhand to 2.71 and rerun your sims and you will see the axe show up as a better option.

Running your profile through EnhSim I get 8235.94 when the speed is kept matching. This drops to 8199.77 when you unmatch the offhand speed to 2.71 Loading up the Axe and sticking a 20 expertise gem in it (slightly under the expertise cap but more relevant without regemming things) EnhSim shows 8220.59dps.

Until the sim gets fixed always make sure to unmatch your weapon speeds.

Last edited by Rouncer : 10/04/09 at 11:09 PM.
#2628SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Bigbare
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Brynmor, you are wrong about Caress. Even for non-orcs, the ilevel 245 axe from HAnub-10 is the superior weapon. Most likely your misinformation is because you are not changing your offhand speed to account for the bug with matched weapons and Flurry charges in the sim.

Change your offhand to 2.71 and rerun your sims and you will see the axe show up as a better option.

Running your profile through EnhSim I get 8235.94 when the speed is kept matching. This drops to 8199.77 when you unmatch the offhand speed to 2.71

Loading up the Axe and sticking a 20 expertise gem in it (slightly under the expertise cap but more relevant without regemming things) EnhSim shows 8220.59dps.

Until the sim gets fixed always make sure to unmatch your weapon speeds.
I think Brynmor is referring to [Hellscream Slicer].
#2629SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Bigbare View Post
I think Brynmor is referring to [Hellscream Slicer].
minchar

Originally Posted by Brynmor View Post
Since the FT coefficient scales up with weapon speed the 2.7 speed Caress will beat any 2.6 speed weapons but 258 ilevel weapons
#2630SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by frozndevl View Post
Levva - You mentioned a graphing feature within Enhsim, but this is the first I have seem mention of this. Is this in a dev version that has not been released to the general public? I was unable to locate any tickets or description of this on the codeplex site.
It is available in change 26691 or later see EnhSim - Source Code for the source code. You will need to compile this source code for it to work. If you don't know how to do that then please wait for the release. I and the other developers will NOT be compiling versions for you sorry.

Originally Posted by bestpike View Post
I think abandoning EP values over more sophisticated ways to calculate upgrades in gear seems a bit trivial. I mean, item upgrade choices usually dont have many options on what we want anyway. Let's say you have Belt of Dragons and the 245 level belt dropped (belt of Deathly dominion). You are going to take it because the stat difference is massive (so its surely an upgrade even if minimal) and there isnt really any other choice. So if you actually did a pretty intelligent theorycrafting you are pidgeon-holed in a single item and your calculations didn't provide any real results.

About gemming, we have around 12-14 gem slots average. Lets say the educated person used his real calculations and found out that he should gem with some stat that in reality has for example 2.1EP. Another person uses Enhsim EP values that are quite false, so while thinking he is gemming with for example a 2.1EP stat, in reality it has a pretty low 1.6EP.

The first player is gaining 504-588 real EP. The second player because of his ignorance will be gaining 384- 448 EP. The average EP bonus the first player will gain through his hard work is around 130EP, which equals usually to about 1% more DPS. This difference wont even show up in real raid encounters, and this is the maximum that can exist (2.1EP vs 1.6EP is pretty huge).

It seems to me that this game isn't punishing enough people for not being educated and not knowing what they are doing, or looking it on the other side of the coin, it isn't rewarding players very much that actually want to search things a bit more.

Maybe we should just stay with the EP values and focus more on DPS priorities and cycles, where some real difference can be made. But of course it all depends on how much time and thought someone is prepared to invest compared to the results he is getting.
This is EXACTLY a description of someone completely and utterly screwing up and using EP values in the worst possible way. DO NOT multiply EP values together on stats of an item to compare them EP is too variable these days to make that a sensible strategy.

Instead sim start and end states and see how much DPS you gain or lose not how much EP you gain or lose. Using EP values correctly means using them as a guide as to which direction to go in. This is where I think graphs will be better as they could be easier to understand.

I'm not in favour of abandoning the concept of a feature that shows us what direction to go in. I am in favour of abandoning the way EP values are treated at present as the current variability of them means that far too many people fall into the trap of the poster above.

Last edited by Levva : 10/05/09 at 5:05 AM.
#2631SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
This is EXACTLY a description of someone completely and utterly screwing up and using EP values in the worst possible way. DO NOT multiply EP values together on stats of an item to compare them EP is too variable these days to make that a sensible strategy.
Rawr and enhsim combine together to do some things very well. "What is our BiS gear talent and priority combination" is a good example of an interesting, meaningful, approachable, and non-trivial problem that the rawr + sim combination is helpful for, and we have a whole thread full of posts approaching the best answer to that question. An even more ideal scenario: I have (or hope to have) two items in my possession, and want to find out which one will provide me with more potential dps.

In theory, every time a potential upgrade drops, I should compare it with my current gear in this fashion. If it ends up not being an upgrade, or if I can see that it will be more beneficial to a hunter or rogue, I pass on it. However there are several pieces of gear for each item slot in any given tier. The combinatorics on this set end up being too big for me to test every possible drop with enhsim. Rawr's genetic algorithm optimizer is great, but its formulae don't have the depth of simulation. The ideal scenario of just grabbing every item on the BiS list is out of the question for me, since my main spec is resto; by guild policy and personal unselfishness I get leftovers that other people don't need.

So, fully aware of the limitations and weaknesses of EP values in the current game, I deliberately use them anyway, in the exact manner you deplore. I'm not going to wait for 9 or 24 other people wait for me to weigh in on loot when we can otherwise spend that time. After I win an item I then of course go through a more rigorous examination with the available tools. Maybe an item isn't an upgrade after all, then I give an Abyssal Crystal to the group. It would have been disenchanted anyway if I didn't want it.

EP isn't the best way to compare gear. No one will argue that. It is, however, a convenient quick and dirty guesstimator. It's fast, and it's usually pretty close.
#2632SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bestpike
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
It is available in change 26691 or later see EnhSim - Source Code for the source code. You will need to compile this source code for it to work. If you don't know how to do that then please wait for the release. I and the other developers will NOT be compiling versions for you sorry.



This is EXACTLY a description of someone completely and utterly screwing up and using EP values in the worst possible way. DO NOT multiply EP values together on stats of an item to compare them EP is too variable these days to make that a sensible strategy.

Instead sim start and end states and see how much DPS you gain or lose not how much EP you gain or lose. Using EP values correctly means using them as a guide as to which direction to go in. This is where I think graphs will be better as they could be easier to understand.

I'm not in favour of abandoning the concept of a feature that shows us what direction to go in. I am in favour of abandoning the way EP values are treated at present as the current variability of them means that far too many people fall into the trap of the poster above.
Levva, you are totally right and i believe most people know that. EP values never show the full true picture. They are constantly changing. But i believe you are taking things a bit too far. You are implying that after 1 or 2 item upgrades the EP values of a player would have changed so much that he is actually making totally wrong decisions on what items are upgrades for him or not.

Are they really changing that fast? And if they are, if i upgrade 1 item that is truly an upgrade, that means that on another or more slots because of the changed EP values the BiS items would have changed too. If that is the case the only solution to this problem is creating an application where you are putting various (or even all) items for each slot and then the application will decide what is the best combination for you depending on what items you have availabe. But i think this process is hard and time consuming and for only minimal gains.
#2633SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Mogadee
bestpike - sounds like you just described the optimizer in rawr. you select (the green diamonds next to gear name) the gear items and run optimizer to select the best item, enchant, and gemming based on its formulae. As Levva as said before, it will go thru all the selections, running them thru the formulae and select the best end result. Also, run that new selection thru the sim to confirm the results. always always always sim to confirm.

side note, EP does change per item change. As it is calculated for the total set as it currently is. Changing one item, changes the result of the EP calculation. For most reliable EP reults, however reliable EP is, it would need to be calculated after each item/enchant/gem change. I personally stay away from EP. And if need be, I will run a quick sim between pulls to see an item drop from a boss is worthwhile.
#2634SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by bestpike View Post
Levva, you are totally right and i believe most people know that. EP values never show the full true picture. They are constantly changing. But i believe you are taking things a bit too far. You are implying that after 1 or 2 item upgrades the EP values of a player would have changed so much that he is actually making totally wrong decisions on what items are upgrades for him or not.

Are they really changing that fast? And if they are, if i upgrade 1 item that is truly an upgrade, that means that on another or more slots because of the changed EP values the BiS items would have changed too. If that is the case the only solution to this problem is creating an application where you are putting various (or even all) items for each slot and then the application will decide what is the best combination for you depending on what items you have availabe. But i think this process is hard and time consuming and for only minimal gains.
For haste, yes sadly they are changing that fast. It has yet to be determined if this is an artefact of using a computer doing perfect priority skills and thus hitting an exact sweet spot for haste which means suddenly 22.2% haste is miles better (EP 2.8+) than haste of 22.1% (EP 1.6).

There are numerous possible fixes for the issue that can be investigated and its not an issue if your gear build doesn't include much haste. However since a large percentage of Enh Shaman as going haste as main stat then it makes sense to warn these people in particular that they MAY be deluding themselves using EP values multiplying them up.

Your suggestion that we need a program where you select each item you have available and all the different gems and enchant and then get the program to work out what combination is the best is EXACTLY what the Rawr Optimiser does. This is why I spend so much time trying to improve its calculations as the optimiser is a fantastic tool that takes a massive amount of work out of trying to decide how to regem to hit caps, up dps etc.

@Jessamy

Perhaps I'm just too organised but I know in advance of a raid which items I could use as an upgrade off which bosses, and encourage all guild members to do the same. If you were in my guild and didn't have a clue if something was an upgrade you'd be told to go get a clue before the next raid or risk losing a spot to someone who came prepared.

The boss loot tables are seriously not that large that its in any way difficult to know which pieces are an upgrade for you. Waiting until an item drops and only then bothering to think about it is slowing down the raid.

I can however fully appreciate that for an offspec this is perhaps above and beyond the call of duty and so can forgive you on that count
#2635SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bobxii
EP values are just the partial differentials of the DPS function in [ap, crit, hit, haste, expertise...etc] space, and "normalized" so that the value of AP is 1. This said, given that the appropriate soft caps are reached, only haste has any complex (higher than ~2nd order) interactions with the DPS function over the ranges that we care about - it wouldn't be terribly difficult to reduce the current "EP system" to a less simulator-dependent "Haste-EP system", where we divide the DPS function and its EP values into groups based upon haste rating, splitting around the windfury interaction areas (which are the root cause of the "haste problem").

Within each group of haste %'s, the EP values would be (very) simple functions - AP would be flat, crit would be (approximately) flat or an exponential function given by flurry and E.D., hit would be linearly dependent on haste %, haste would be approximately linear, etc. With the implementation of such a system, it would be possible to move away from EnhSim for all but the most demanding applications, to a spreadsheet-based system, one that most people are capable of understanding and utilizing, and one that is drastically simpler to use. EnhSim would only be needed when moving across haste groups (from one to another) - however since most of our gear doesn't even contain haste, we could do away with the need to sim every time we acquire a new piece. This would be simple enough that it could merit the return of EP values to the TTT, grouped based upon haste ranges and MH weapon speed, with the caveat that using a trinket with a haste proc (Elemental Focus Stone, etc) will distort these EP values.

edit: also note that (given the differential nature of EP values), the value of current haste is at a max/min when the EP value is lowest.
#2636SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3bestpike
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
For haste, yes sadly they are changing that fast. It has yet to be determined if this is an artefact of using a computer doing perfect priority skills and thus hitting an exact sweet spot for haste which means suddenly 22.2% haste is miles better (EP 2.8+) than haste of 22.1% (EP 1.6).

There are numerous possible fixes for the issue that can be investigated and its not an issue if your gear build doesn't include much haste. However since a large percentage of Enh Shaman as going haste as main stat then it makes sense to warn these people in particular that they MAY be deluding themselves using EP values multiplying them up.

Your suggestion that we need a program where you select each item you have available and all the different gems and enchant and then get the program to work out what combination is the best is EXACTLY what the Rawr Optimiser does. This is why I spend so much time trying to improve its calculations as the optimiser is a fantastic tool that takes a massive amount of work out of trying to decide how to regem to hit caps, up dps etc.
Wow I didn't know Rawr was so sophisticated. I didn't give it too much time to work with. I will check it out. Thanks for your hard work Levva
#2637SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Grendelstein
Mac Binary

Originally Posted by Lyska View Post
Could we please get an updated mac version?
I have, with some help from the codeplex enhsim site, compiled a current Mac version of EnhSim. It's a Unix binary but works just like it always has on the Mac.

EnhSim Mac Binary
#2638SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Brynmor
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Brynmor, you are wrong about Caress. Even for non-orcs, the ilevel 245 axe from HAnub-10 is the superior weapon. Most likely your misinformation is because you are not changing your offhand speed to account for the bug with matched weapons and Flurry charges in the sim.

Change your offhand to 2.71 and rerun your sims and you will see the axe show up as a better option.

Running your profile through EnhSim I get 8235.94 when the speed is kept matching. This drops to 8199.77 when you unmatch the offhand speed to 2.71 Loading up the Axe and sticking a 20 expertise gem in it (slightly under the expertise cap but more relevant without regemming things) EnhSim shows 8220.59dps.

Until the sim gets fixed always make sure to unmatch your weapon speeds.
I was unaware of that bug, but I just ran a set of tests; the first with my current setup with the OH speed set to 2.71 and I got 8359.92 (my number's higher than the test from your post because I got some new loot tonight).

I then ran the sim replacing the OH with [The Lion's Maw] ([Frostblade Hatchet] for horde), changing the OH speed to the correct 2.6, adding a 20 Expertise gem to the OH to get to me 135 to Expertise Rating and assuming I drop a 40 AP gem for a 10 Expertise/10 Hit gem to get me over the Expertise cap. I got 8359.42.

So even when I make the change to the sim to take into account the matched weapon speed bug I still get results that indicate only a 258 weapon is going to replace CoI.

[e] Actually it wouldn't make sense to use the 10 Expertise/Hit gem since even if I was under the Expertise cap by 5 Expertise rating the 40 AP gem would be worth more in terms of EP than the Exp/Hit gem. I get ~30 EP for the Exp/Hit gem when I'm 5 Expertise Rating under cap while the 40 AP gem is of course worth 40 EP. Even so, the extra 10 EP value I'd gain hardly makes the [The Lion's Maw] a clear upgrade over CoI.

Last edited by Brynmor : 10/07/09 at 1:07 AM.
#2639SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Razanar
Originally Posted by Grendelstein View Post
I have, with some help from the codeplex enhsim site, compiled a current Mac version of EnhSim. It's a Unix binary but works just like it always has on the Mac.

EnhSim Mac Binary
At the risk of sounding like a complete newb, what am I supposed to do with this file? Is there a place I'm supposed to put it in my iEnhsim folder? Or do I need a separate program to run it?
#2640SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kurai01
It might not be completely clear unless you've used previously released versions. This is the mac binary file, not a GUI app and must be run in Terminal.app in much the same way Windows users will run enhsim.exe.

The first thing you need to do is rename it if your browser downloaded it as a generic file. (just call it enhsim)
Secondly, as with many binaries, you need to make it executable. In the terminal locate the file and enter:

chmod 755 enhsim
I'd recommend moving it to an existing enhsim folder that contains the windows files, that will give you a default config file.
After exporting from ShockAndAwe and pasting in another file, you can run something like:

./enhsim myconfig.txt output.txt
You should expect a similar experience to enhsim.exe from the command-line and I've verified this is true with 10.6.1.
#2641SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ziff
Not sure who is approving patches on EnhSim right now, but I added a patch to fix the changes to Flame Shock and Armor Pen for 3.2.2. I uploaded the patch to CodePlex so if one of the coordinators could look it over, it would be nice to get EnhSim updated for 3.2.2.
#2642SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3mjgunn
How does the sim work with "use" trinkets? I saw the option for syncing it with heroism, but if that's not chosen does it just pop them whenever they're off cooldown?
#2643SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by bobxii View Post
EP values are just the partial differentials of the DPS function in [ap, crit, hit, haste, expertise...etc] space, and "normalized" so that the value of AP is 1. This said, given that the appropriate soft caps are reached, only haste has any complex (higher than ~2nd order) interactions with the DPS function over the ranges that we care about - it wouldn't be terribly difficult to reduce the current "EP system" to a less simulator-dependent "Haste-EP system", where we divide the DPS function and its EP values into groups based upon haste rating, splitting around the windfury interaction areas (which are the root cause of the "haste problem").
Sadly that isn't true. Hit rating also has a very significant effect above the spell hit cap. As additional hits generate more MW procs which means you can get an extra LB in before another skill (eg: LL). This then puts that second skill delayed for another GCD. By which time a third higher priority skill (eg SS) might be available further delaying the "second" skill (LL). This delaying effect then ripples through the combat sequence of skills used and can significantly change the balance in numbers of casts between abilities - LB & LL usage numbers are often significantly changed for instance.

This means that the numbers of LBs cast during a combat cycle of the sim will vary due to RNG but also due to additional hit adding a greater frequency in there. This can push more LBs at the expense of other abilities (notably LL & MT). This CAN mean that marginal variations in hit rating (above the spell hit cap) can change the number of abilities used and hence the dps results.

In EP terms this can seriously distort hit rating above the spell hit cap, adding additional hit rating does definitely give a dps boost, however it feels "stepped" ie: small amounts of hit make little difference then there is a jump to a new plateau. This is my gut feeling as to how it will come out. I'm still working on adding a graphing function to Rawr which will show steps of each stat +/- 5 steps of 1 epic gem's worth of stat either side of your current gear. eg: +/- 200 AP, +/- 100 haste, +/- 100 crit etc. The output will be presented as a graph of each stat change vs dps.

Last edited by Levva : 10/14/09 at 10:51 AM.
#2644SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Enkeedu
Originally Posted by ziff View Post
Not sure who is approving patches on EnhSim right now, but I added a patch to fix the changes to Flame Shock and Armor Pen for 3.2.2. I uploaded the patch to CodePlex so if one of the coordinators could look it over, it would be nice to get EnhSim updated for 3.2.2.
Fantastic!

I've really been wanting to run new sims to find out what kind of upgrade path I should be pursuing through T9, but its hard to trust the numbers from an outdated simulator. Can our enhsim contributors get this update approved and pushed through to download? We're in the 4th week since 3.2.2 dropped!
#2645SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Peterle
Here is a new EnhSim executable with some small fixes: REMOVED I create a patch for some of the changes.

Things i try to fix:

* Change the proc of the Mjolnir Runestone from 612 ArP to 665 ArP.
* Change the value of 'SPELL_HASTE_RATING_TO_HASTE' to the value of 'MELEE_HASTE_RATING_TO_HASTE' (0.00039646246f). At the armory it seems that both have the same ratio but i did not test it in game.
* Change the value of 'ARMOR_PENETRATION_RATING_TO_ARMOR_PENETRATION' from 0.0008119361f down to 0.0007142857f. I just calculate the value using my ArP rating and percentage. If someone knows the exact value i will replace it.
* Flame shock gives six dot ticks. The coefficient for the dot was not changed if i remember correctly.
* Flurry now gives three charges even with same weapon speed.

Some words about the flurry fix: There is already a define for these change ('FLURRY_SYNCED'). But the code which was commented out by these option did not work anymore. So i only fix these two lines. But i do not have the time to take a closer at the simulator so i'm not sure if i did it the right way. With different weapon speed i get the same results and with same weapon speed flurry uptime ist not higher anymore. So it seems that the sim works correctly.

Last edited by Peterle : 10/16/09 at 3:12 AM.
#2646SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Peterle View Post
Here is a new EnhSim executable with some small fixes: http://inteam.org/EnhSim.zip

Things i try to fix:

* Change the value of 'SPELL_HASTE_RATING_TO_HASTE' to the value of 'MELEE_HASTE_RATING_TO_HASTE' (0.00039646246f). At the armory it seems that both have the same ratio but i did not test it in game.
We get 30% more melee haste then spell haste since the 3.1 patch (armory is wrong - check your in-game paperdoll if you want to check your values). Hopefully someone can incorporate your other fixes into a build that treats haste rating properly.

Levva should be able to include you into the codeplex project if you are interested in helping us out in the future. (Ziff should have been contacted about this already, for the curious)
#2647SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3EllissDee
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
We get 30% more melee haste then spell haste since the 3.1 patch (armory is wrong - check your in-game paperdoll if you want to check your values). Hopefully someone can incorporate your other fixes into a build that treats haste rating properly.

Levva should be able to include you into the codeplex project if you are interested in helping us out in the future. (Ziff should have been contacted about this already, for the curious)
So as of now, are we better off using the default EnhSim on CodePlex, or this new one? Which would be more accurate?
#2648SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Spaceinvader
I think Ziff's uploaded source code patch attempted to fix a few more issues than Paterle's uploaded executable even though Ziff didn't say much in his post. These are the full notes that Ziff posted with his patch on the codeplex site:
I went ahead and syn'd up the changes for 3.2.2 with Flame Shock and Armor Pen. I tested all of these changes on live with the exception of the T9 shock bonus, since I don't have that gear yet.
- Switched to the new Armor Pen scaling number for 3.2.2. Numbers from the Combat Rating thread on Elitist Jerks
- Extended the time of Flame Shock to include 2 more dot ticks.
- Updated the spell power scaling for flame shock from the Elemental TTT wiki.
- Created separate stats for the dot so we can see the crit rate
- Changed the spellpower and crit multiplier to applying at flame shock cast time, since they don't change while the flame shock dot is ticking
- Updated the T9 Elemental 2 piece set bonus to now allow Flame Shock to crit
- Updated the Flame Shock glyph to now allow Flame Shock to crit
- Updated the Flame Shock dot to also apply the bonus from concussion along with the shock damage multiplier from the T9 2 piece set bonus
- Removed Lava Burst eating Flame Shock
- Removed the 'cast LvB only if FS dots left' since it wasn't useful anymore. The 'cast LvB only if FS active' should cover any scenarios that are needed
There were a number of problems with calculating the damage for FS dots in the prior version (e.g. T9 bonus was not being applied) that Ziff attempted to address and he even marked off the issues in the issue tracker.

Last edited by Spaceinvader : 10/15/09 at 9:03 AM.
#2649SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by EllissDee View Post
So as of now, are we better off using the default EnhSim on CodePlex, or this new one? Which would be more accurate?
Default one since having 30% less melee haste then occurs in game is likely to lead to some significant inaccuracies. Hopefully one of the other coordinators who actually knows what they are doing will have a chance soon to review the changes in Ziffs XML update to the source code and then compile it into a new executable for download and proper testing.
#2650SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Can I ask anyone that has coding experience and wants to contribute to the project to contact a project co-ordinator - Myself or Rouncer and we can add you as a contributor.

PLEASE don't issue your own mini versions with adhoc changes as that just leads to confusion with multiple different versions at all different stages of development. The whole point of creating a codeplex project was so that multiple developers could assist and we would have a unified code repository and avoid the diverse versions issue.
#2651SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
PLEASE don't issue your own mini versions with adhoc changes as that just leads to confusion with multiple different versions at all different stages of development. The whole point of creating a codeplex project was so that multiple developers could assist and we would have a unified code repository and avoid the diverse versions issue.
Yes you are right. I overlooked the option to upload a patch to the project. Ziffs changes are looking much more accurate to me. So i only create patches for the Mjolnir Runestone and the 'FLURRY_SYNCED' option.

As i wrote before: I took only a superficial look at the simulator. So there is no guarantee that the 'FLURRY_SYNCED' change is correct.
#2652SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Compiled Ziff's update off of Alandovos work but was unable to patch up his GUI changes so it is currently listed as an Alpha but is available for download and testing.

Once Alandovos compiles a new release with his GUI changes it will be changed to release status but all the EnhSim changes are in place and from my testing it is working well enough for people to start using it.

Still missing the Flurry updates so if you are using matched weapon speeds make sure to set your offhand speed up or down by .01 hopefully those can be tested and incorporated into the release patch along with the GUI updates.

EnhSim - Release: 1.8.4 Alpha
#2653SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Alandovos
Rouncer and I must work on the exact same schedule. I've bumped the version number to 1.8.4.1 and package up the GUI changes and incorporated the Mjolnir Runestone fix.

Again the flurry updates aren't in there because I didn't have enough time to check it out. Someone on the team will get to that very soon.

EnhSim - Release: 1.8.4.1 Beta
#2654SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Ryethe
I noticed that the total damage output of ES and FS is the same regardless of T9 4Pc. The DPS output at the bottom changes as expected (25%) but the total damage output at the top is the same.

Other than that, most of the changes seem to be working from what I can tell and FS seems to be coming out better than I had hoped.
#2655SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3jcgamo88
Not sure if this is a problem with my machine or with the code however attempting to use anymore than 1 thread results in using only 1 thread! I've been using Taskman and the Threads column to monitor this.
I did a quick search of the 104 pages of posts and didn't see anyone else comment on this as I glanced over everything.
#2656SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Brynmor
Never mind, please delete this post.

Last edited by Brynmor : 10/19/09 at 3:20 AM.
#2657SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
I'll try to update some of the "issues" on the issue tracker now they have been dealt with. Could other authors please mark issues as done once they commit fixes so that we have an on going track of only outstanding issues.

I'll also have a look at some of the code, I'm rusty with C++, to see if some of the easier fixes can be incorporated quickly. However I will say this up front I will not become the main EnhSim maintainer. I have way too much on my plate as it is.

If some of the guys who contributed could put themselves forward to work on the project please, it would benefit the whole Enh Shammy community that has come to rely on EnhSim.

Last edited by Levva : 10/19/09 at 8:53 AM.
#2658SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shammiewow
Something that I have wondered about Enhsim:

When l look at my profile in the Armory, my Spellpower is increased by the buff from Flametongue Weapon in my off-hand. But when I try to paste from Rawr, the buff is not added in. Does Enhsim add in the Spellpower buff when you select Flametongue for your off-hand, or do you need to add the additional spellpower yourself?
#2659SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Originally Posted by Shammiewow View Post
Something that I have wondered about Enhsim:

When l look at my profile in the Armory, my Spellpower is increased by the buff from Flametongue Weapon in my off-hand. But when I try to paste from Rawr, the buff is not added in. Does Enhsim add in the Spellpower buff when you select Flametongue for your off-hand, or do you need to add the additional spellpower yourself?
Enhsim adds the buff, so you should not include it with your stats when you set up your config. This is one reason why it's better to use rawr to export an enhsim config rather than pull stats from your paperdoll in game.

(And especially avoid using stats from the paperdoll on the armory. Quite often the armory has wrong stats for some pieces of gear. Some items get updated late in a PTR phase in the actual game files, but not in the armory database.)
#2660SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Spaceinvader
Originally Posted by jcgamo88 View Post
Not sure if this is a problem with my machine or with the code however attempting to use anymore than 1 thread results in using only 1 thread! I've been using Taskman and the Threads column to monitor this.
I did a quick search of the 104 pages of posts and didn't see anyone else comment on this as I glanced over everything.
My recollection is that multithreading has not worked since Tukez went AWOL. When Verges updated Tukez's last version and created v1.7.0.3, he was not able to get multithreading to work. There also is a patch note with v1.8.0 noting that multithreading is not supported. I haven't heard anything further on the issue, so I assume that multithreading still is not supported.
#2661SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Kadomony
I did some simming with the Fetish of Volatile Power (heroic) and Mirror of Truth, and the DPS difference is about 5 in favour of the Fetish, but since the enhsim priority doesn't seem to allow for adding Wind Shear into the rotation, I'm wondering if that's actually a bit lower than it should be? My rough calculations make me believe it should be closer to 15-20, seeing as Wind Shear helps build up the stacks almost twice as fast.

Has anyone tested these in a more live-fire environment? The Fetish is definitely harder to use properly, since it's on-demand, and you have to be sure to be pushing wind shear as well as everything else, but considering the amount of on-demand burst the current content seems to require, I'm thinking it's probably better.

I was also wondering if there was some way to add Wind Shear into the priority just for this.
#2662SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Deathicle
I've taken this from the BiS thread as it is a more appropriate conversation for this thread.

Originally Posted by philviral View Post
Forgive me for further derailing this from a BiS discussion, but I just thought of something along the lines of the current conversation that I would like to run by the community.

As Levva said, "there are certain sweet spots (and sour spots) for haste where adding tiny additional amounts can result in dramatic dps changes up or down." These 'sweet spots' are the result of a certain haste value giving x number of MW procs for the given combat length - the 'standard' config provided in the OP has this at 10 minutes.

Could this issue perhaps be relieved by adding a random element to the combat length? So instead of running 10 minute fights for 5000 hours, the sim could run 10 minute fights +/- a random number of seconds up to, say, 30. Similar to how the windfury CD is modeled, if i remember correctly from that discussion earlier this year.
If the sim truly requires a fixed combat time of 10 minutes at 5000/10000 hours to achieve the best results, then we seriously need to take a good hard look at just what constitutes an accurate simulated test. If what you said is true, then this is right along the lines of same speed weapons with Flurry bug. The simulator should be modified to provide random combat intervals - say +- 90 seconds for each 10 minute fight and then run for 10000 hours. It may still not be perfect, but it would be a lot more realistic than using a quirky coincidental set of numbers to achieve the BiS setup/dps values.
#2663SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Deathicle View Post
I've taken this from the BiS thread as it is a more appropriate conversation for this thread.



If the sim truly requires a fixed combat time of 10 minutes at 5000/10000 hours to achieve the best results, then we seriously need to take a good hard look at just what constitutes an accurate simulated test. If what you said is true, then this is right along the lines of same speed weapons with Flurry bug. The simulator should be modified to provide random combat intervals - say +- 90 seconds for each 10 minute fight and then run for 10000 hours. It may still not be perfect, but it would be a lot more realistic than using a quirky coincidental set of numbers to achieve the BiS setup/dps values.
This was added as an issue to the EnhSim project back on the 22nd September please see EnhSim - View Issue #4967: Combat Length It has yet to be incorporated into the sim. I very strongly believe this is an important change that needs to be addressed to help smooth out co-incidental haste effects on fixed length combat.
#2664SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3• Raut
Three factors make fixed time combat rounds a bad thing: GW, BL and trinkets. Ok, and profession/race CDs so four things. (And I'm sure others will list new and exciting things I didn't think of). Anyway, they are all on 1*X minute timers and some combat intervals can be greatly manipulated by said cooldowns. I always found the 10 minute combat length thing a bit odd as it diminishes Bloodlust and favors GW and trinkets(and profs/race). Very few fights are 10 minutes long and as such, simming 10 minute fights does not represent live fights. A ten minute fight does not produce greater accuracy in DPS or EP if you're calculating that. The sim has a configurable time it's supposed to simulate and decreasing combat length will only produce more simulated fights, with the added bonus of being closer to live fights.

Back to my original point; Instead of having more random inserted into EnhSim, how about fixed combat segment intervals?

combat_min_length = 4 // in minutes
combat_max_length = 10
combat_stepping = 1 // perhaps do it in seconds instead?

So the first simulated fight will be 4 minutes, second 5, etc and then a ten minute fight. After that EnhSim will reset it's internal combat stepping counter and start at 4 minutes again. Why do this? Well, we have a simulator that has a lot of random factors. While live has random combat length it's not necessarily a good thing for the simulator to incorporate all things random in the game. As shown, some deviation is good because it negates false plateaus due to EnhSim's strict nature. However, as many deterministic (here loosely used as we can easily and precisely calculate each and every combat lengths just by looking at the config) factors as possible will make less "flukes" in EnhSim results.
#2665SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Peterle
I uploaded a patch which includes a new option for config file:
combat_length_rng_factor 0.1
This will add or substract up to 10% (in this case) of the combat length.
#2666SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Alandovos
New EnhSim available from the site: EnhSim - Release: 1.8.5.0 Beta

Big thanks to Peterle for the patches.

As always please use the EnhSim site for reporting issues.
#2667SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
New Release v1.8.5.1

I've uploaded a new release of EnhSim. Changelog is as follows...

Various fixes
Updated config.txt file with various new values - eg: no longer uses lvl 70 potion by default
Armour debuffs now warn if outside acceptable range. Boss armour now warns if users using old config file value of 10645 instead of 10643.
Added warnings about using low level potions/flasks
New racial flag wasn't being initialised for Draenei causing odd crashes for Alliance Shaman
Various efficiency improvements with combat log settings
Fixed bug with Feral Spirits AP, they get AP from 2 times their strength not their str + agi.
#2668SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Spaceinvader
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Fixed bug with Feral Spirits AP, they get AP from 2 times their strength not their str + agi.
I believe that the sim was calculating this properly. The agility-related variables were just there to future-proof the code in case wolves at some point began scaling off of Agi instead of Str, but their presence did not alter the calculation.

The original code in question was as follows:

attack_power_base_ + sim.ap_ * attack_power_scaling_ + strength_ * strength_to_ap_ + agility_ * agility_to_ap_

But agility_to_ap_ was set to 0, so no AP was added. But if Blizzard made a future change to allow Agi-based scaling, all that had to be done to implement it would be to change the constant from 0 to another number.

So that was a long way of saying that I don't believe that change should throw off the values that people were simming previously.
#2669SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
Can we get *for testing purposes only* a priority choice for, Flame Shock only if SS debuff is not on the target? So like, FS_noSS ?

I think it would be worth looking into.

Also, haven't checked the newest release, but last time I checked, Darkmoon Card: Greatness is missing in the trinkets list in the sim (was helping a friend out who has the trinket).
#2670SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Originally Posted by kaoticz View Post
Also, haven't checked the newest release, but last time I checked, Darkmoon Card: Greatness is missing in the trinkets list in the sim (was helping a friend out who has the trinket).
Some trinkets are implemented in the simulator itself but not listed in the GUI drop-down menu. You can include these in various ways. You can manually edit them into a config file, or if you select the trinket in question in rawr and export a config file it will automatically include them. If you want to use a trinket that you don't find in the drop-down, and want to select it from within the GUI, you can type its item number. For reference, the Darkmoon card you're looking for is item number 44253.
#2671SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Spaceinvader View Post
I believe that the sim was calculating this properly. The agility-related variables were just there to future-proof the code in case wolves at some point began scaling off of Agi instead of Str, but their presence did not alter the calculation.

The original code in question was as follows:

attack_power_base_ + sim.ap_ * attack_power_scaling_ + strength_ * strength_to_ap_ + agility_ * agility_to_ap_

But agility_to_ap_ was set to 0, so no AP was added. But if Blizzard made a future change to allow Agi-based scaling, all that had to be done to implement it would be to change the constant from 0 to another number.

So that was a long way of saying that I don't believe that change should throw off the values that people were simming previously.
Ah bugger. You're right - reverting change and immediately releasing fix as v1.8.5.2
#2672SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3kaoticz
Originally Posted by Jessamy View Post
Some trinkets are implemented in the simulator itself but not listed in the GUI drop-down menu. You can include these in various ways. You can manually edit them into a config file, or if you select the trinket in question in rawr and export a config file it will automatically include them. If you want to use a trinket that you don't find in the drop-down, and want to select it from within the GUI, you can type its item number. For reference, the Darkmoon card you're looking for is item number 44253.
Yah I realized this after posting -- but still, when the gui was updated and the trinkets were alphabetized and added into the drop down, it made me feel like it should just be added for "completeness' sake" :P

Thanks though
#2673SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylari
Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, but how would one go about manually adding a new trinket to the sim? Specifically my shaman is currently using a mirror of truth, and EnhSim crashes every time I attempt to copy her into the sim because the trinket isn't in the list.
#2674SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Sylari View Post
Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, but how would one go about manually adding a new trinket to the sim? Specifically my shaman is currently using a mirror of truth, and EnhSim crashes every time I attempt to copy her into the sim because the trinket isn't in the list.
Mirror of Truth is in the Sim, you are crashing for some other reason. Make sure that the GUI is pointing at the proper exe file since that seems to be the most common cause for crashes.
#2675SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Mirror of Truth is in the Sim, you are crashing for some other reason. Make sure that the GUI is pointing at the proper exe file since that seems to be the most common cause for crashes.
Actually Mirror of Truth isn't available as an option in the enhsim GUI drop-down menu in the most recent build. You have to type it in, and it doesn't work to type in the name, you have to type in the number. If you search for the item on any common database web site, you can find out the in game item number. Enter that number as the name of your trinket. In this case, Mirror of Truth is item number 40684, which you can see in the url when you search for the item at any of these sites:

[Mirror of Truth]
The World of Warcraft Armory
Mirror of Truth - Items - Sigrie

But really, you should be using rawr to create your enhsim config files anyway, and rawr does this automatically. It's faster, easier to do without making mistakes, and as long as your item database is up to date within rawr, it's more accurate. (Some items have different stats in game than their stats on the armory, especially socket bonuses.)
#2676SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Sylari
Originally Posted by Jessamy View Post
But really, you should be using rawr to create your enhsim config files anyway, and rawr does this automatically. It's faster, easier to do without making mistakes, and as long as your item database is up to date within rawr, it's more accurate. (Some items have different stats in game than their stats on the armory, especially socket bonuses.)
I tried that to begin with, but I'd repeatedly get a clipboard parsing error, which I had assumed was the simulator getting confused over my second trinket ( and aa new error... null values on something called OldValue when trying to save )
#2677SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Sylari View Post
I tried that to begin with, but I'd repeatedly get a clipboard parsing error, which I had assumed was the simulator getting confused over my second trinket ( and aa new error... null values on something called OldValue when trying to save )
1) Make sure you use "Copy EnhSim config to clipboard" and not "Copy data to clipboard" in Rawr. The copy data is for raw Rawr data NOT for EnhSim. I've updated the GUI to warn about this in future.

2) Make sure you are using the new config.txt (supplied with v1.8.5.2) as the default there are new options added to the sim lately and so you will potentially get errors if you are using an old config file.
#2678SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Tyranik
After a quick search of this thread I cannot seem to locate the answer to a problem I am having with the newest version of EnhSim, v1.8.5.2. I installed it the same way I did with past EnhSims, but every time I try to save my configuration (stats, talent spec, etc) it gives me an error. The following link is to a post on codeplex by someone else with the same problem:
EnhSim - View Issue #5358: missing trinkets and unable to save

The error message pasted in that thread is the exact same as mine.

Some background information:
-I've used EnhSim in the past and never had this issue before.
-The "..." button in the bottom right was set for the EnhSim.exe file of v1.8.5.2, not any previous EnhSim.exe versions.
-I had 2 previous versions of EnhSim still hanging around on my drive, so I uninstalled those and the newest version, then reinstalled
-I tried installing .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 (per the suggestion in the Readme file)
-I tried uninstalling all previous .NET Frameworks and then installing 3.5 SP1 (should I be using .NET Framework 4 beta 2?)
-I receive no other error messages, except for this error message when attempting to save the file.
-I have tried just saving the blank config that is there when you first open the program (I changed nothing), and it still gives me an error.

Also, I had been using the EnhSim version just prior to this one perfectly fine.

I have already done a lot of google searches, and while I've found many other posts about "Unhandled exception" errors, I cannot find an answer to this specific problem. The response on the Codeplex Issue Report was not helpful, either.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and hopefully anyone else with this problem in the future will find this thread helpful.

Thanks in advance.
#2679SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Just to ask, are you trying to save it to the previous folder instead of to your new folder? The GUI loads the previous config so just making sure you have redirected the save function to the new folder and that you are not trying to save the file in a folder that is in your recycle bin.
#2680SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Tyranik
Well I'm not at home so I can't test your theory Rouncer, but I am 99.9% certain (I have a long-winded reason as to why I'm certain, but I will spare you) that I was saving it to the proper folder.

I am at a friend's house, so I will test the sim on her computer. Perhaps I can figure out the correlation (or lack of) between our two computers.

@Sylari: Since you seem to be the only other known person with this problem, maybe you could let me know any sort of info about your computer that may have something in common with mine. Any sort of info on your .NET Framework, or anything else that may affect this would be helpful for solving this issue.

EDIT: After downloading it on my friends computer, I received the same error message when trying to save my config. When testing the simulation function, I also noticed the error about the armor for bosses being 10645 instead of the proper 10643, and it mentioned how my config file may not be up-to-date (which makes no sense, seeing as how this computer has never had any other EnhSims on it before). At home I had just changed the armor manually, but this time I decided to load the newest config.txt file into the GUI from the EnhSim folder. I was then able to save different configurations properly.

While I cannot test if this will work on my home computer until Monday, it may be a good idea for others with this same problem to try loading the config.txt file into their GUI, then copying their own configuration into the GUI, before trying to save. Just make sure you don't try to save over the config file, or it will give you another "Unhandled exception" message.

Last edited by Tyranik : 10/31/09 at 3:00 PM.
#2681SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rani
I also had an issue exporting from the latest rawr to Enhsim: the data was copied fine but it was unable to run the sim.
I later saw that after exporting from rawr the enhsim rotation had a number of checked boxed named "XX" instead of my old rotation.

Once I un-checked them it worked fine.
#2682SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Saidbeastie
Originally Posted by Rani View Post
I also had an issue exporting from the latest rawr to Enhsim: the data was copied fine but it was unable to run the sim.
I later saw that after exporting from rawr the enhsim rotation had a number of checked boxed named "XX" instead of my old rotation.

Once I un-checked them it worked fine.
I'm having the same problem. In Rawr, there's a tab called "priorities" that looks similar to the rotation section of enhsimgui. When my priorities are checked in Rawr, it exports to enhsim as XX instead of each ability. When I uncheck them in Rawr, it exports to enhsim normally but unchecks whatever I might have had checked in enhsim.

Another problem I'm having that I didn't have in previous versions was that after exporting my Rawr data to enhsim the "water shield" box is checked. It's a little annoying to have to turn it off every time I export.

EDIT: I just noticed that this should probably be in the Rawr thread.
#2683SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Solema
I'm sorry if this has been answered b4 but i haven't found anything on this thread.Is it possible and/or of any use to add an option for a Greater Fire Elemantal in the sim?
#2684SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Saidbeastie View Post
I'm having the same problem. In Rawr, there's a tab called "priorities" that looks similar to the rotation section of enhsimgui. When my priorities are checked in Rawr, it exports to enhsim as XX instead of each ability. When I uncheck them in Rawr, it exports to enhsim normally but unchecks whatever I might have had checked in enhsim.

Another problem I'm having that I didn't have in previous versions was that after exporting my Rawr data to enhsim the "water shield" box is checked. It's a little annoying to have to turn it off every time I export.

EDIT: I just noticed that this should probably be in the Rawr thread.
Should be updated for v2.2.25. It no longer uses the export of priorities. It will only put watershield on if Lightning shield is off in your priorities. If its off then you'd naturally use watershield or are you doing something else?
#2685SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3goropeza
I normally do not post, but I wanted to point out an interesting observation made with Flame Shock dps. Replacing Glyph of Windfury with Glyph of Flame Shock (and appropriately adding FS into my rotation) sims out to be roughly a 50 dps increase yet my DPS seems to have fallen in raid meters. What is interesting though is that my position in Damage Done meters has me ranked above people who have survived the entire fight and whose dps was greater than mine. I realize this could be due to any number of things, so I still don't rule out the possibility of a reduction in damage. I was simply wondering if this is indicative of faulty simulations with Flame Shock or a problem with how dps is calculated through Recount?
#2686SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shammiewow
I think the answer is "no", but is there any way to sim an item like [Raging Deathbringer] in Enhsim?
#2687SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by goropeza View Post
I normally do not post, but I wanted to point out an interesting observation made with Flame Shock dps. Replacing Glyph of Windfury with Glyph of Flame Shock (and appropriately adding FS into my rotation) sims out to be roughly a 50 dps increase yet my DPS seems to have fallen in raid meters. What is interesting though is that my position in Damage Done meters has me ranked above people who have survived the entire fight and whose dps was greater than mine. I realize this could be due to any number of things, so I still don't rule out the possibility of a reduction in damage. I was simply wondering if this is indicative of faulty simulations with Flame Shock or a problem with how dps is calculated through Recount?

DPS meters work by stopping whenever there is a 5 (3?) second pause without any damage being done. If you are using Flame Shock those pauses become much rarer since the DoT is continuing to do damage even if you are out of melee range.
#2688SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Jessamy
Originally Posted by Shammiewow View Post
I think the answer is "no", but is there any way to sim an item like [Raging Deathbringer] in Enhsim?
It's fairly kludgy, but if one of your trinkets has no on-proc or on-use effects, you can add 40371 ([Bandit's Insignia]) as one of your trinkets. (The trinket's static attack power won't affect the simulator since your total attack power is input elsewhere.) It's a completely different proc, with a different proc rate and proc mechanic -- but its proc ends up having a similar final dps contribution to the proc from the axe.

Then just manually enter your weapon with 2.7 speed and 196.5 dps (and set to axe if you're an orc). Most people conclude that with no stat contributions, the axe is worse than anything in Ulduar, but not by much.
Originally Posted by Razanar View Post
I'm pretty sure when it measures up to other ilvl 245 weapons it doesn't compare, even with the 2.7 speed.
For me, it's better than any ilvl 226 weapon, and worse than any ilvl 232 weapon.

Last edited by Jessamy : 11/03/09 at 2:14 PM.
#2689SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Razanar
Originally Posted by Jessamy View Post
It's fairly kludgy, but if one of your trinkets has no on-proc or on-use effects, you can add 40371 ([Bandit's Insignia]) as one of your trinkets. (The trinket's static attack power won't affect the simulator since your total attack power is input elsewhere.) It's a completely different proc, with a different proc rate and proc mechanic -- but its proc ends up having a similar final dps contribution to the proc from the axe.

Then just manually enter your weapon with 2.7 speed and 196.5 dps (and set to axe if you're an orc). Most people conclude that with no stat contributions, the axe is worse than anything in Ulduar, but not by much.
You should also make sure to sim the difference between putting it in the mainhand and the offhand. Putting it in the offhand would be more beneficial at first glance, dude to Flametongue procs doing more damage with 2.7 speed, as well as more LL damage. Also, more hits because of LL means a couple extra procs in the course of a fight.

Of course, that's all first glance speculation. I'm pretty sure when it measures up to other ilvl 245 weapons it doesn't compare, even with the 2.7 speed.
#2690SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Flametongue damage is unaffected by weapon speed. Blizzard's fix was to make it a speed neutral attack. Slower weapons will have larger flametongue procs but they will be happening less frequently so they cancel each other out. True, you would get more Lava Lash damage and the FT damage when you SS and LL would be higher but it wouldn't compare to the additional damage the slower weapon would do in the mainhand when you get a Windfury proc.
#2691SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Shammiewow
Thanks, using a trinket as a substitute is a great idea, but unfortunately both of mine have procs that need to be modeled.

I spent some time on the Dummy comparing [Raging Deathbringer] to [Insanity's Grip] in my mainhand, and it did not do well. Admittedly, the IG had the Berserker enchant and the [Raging Deathbringer] did not, but even so, it should have been at least equal, unenchanted, to be a worthwhile upgrade.

I didn't think to try it in my offhand. I'm wielding [Tankard O' Terror] there. I'll try that tonight.

It would be nice if Enhsim allowed for user-defined procs.

Last edited by Shammiewow : 11/03/09 at 2:54 PM.
#2692SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Given the changes to Fire Elemental it looks like it would be useful to add FE to the possible priorities list so that its effects and the effects of the Fire Elemental glyph can be tested. At present there doesn't seem to be any code dealing with Fire Elementals. Anyone care to create a patch that adds this?

@Shammiewow
Whilst user defined procs would be nice there just isn't a mechanism within the existing code that would ever make this viable without a radical re-write. A radical re-write would be better in the jEnhSim project which has seen little recent activity.
#2693SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Gbits
Is there a current download site for 2.25? The codeplex link (the one from your sig) still leads to 2.24 - not trying to rush you if it's still in development, just experiencing the same priority issue as everyone else and looking forward to avoiding it. (Grrr, sorry to repeat our referencing of Rawr in the EnhSim thread, though they're awfully interdependent these days...)
#2694SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Gbits View Post
Is there a current download site for 2.25? The codeplex link (the one from your sig) still leads to 2.24 - not trying to rush you if it's still in development, just experiencing the same priority issue as everyone else and looking forward to avoiding it. (Grrr, sorry to repeat our referencing of Rawr in the EnhSim thread, though they're awfully interdependent these days...)
Rawr releases are at the mercy of the Project Co-ordinator Astrylian. It is entirely his call when or if an official new version is released. If you get a copy of Visual Studio Express Edition from Microsoft Website http://www.microsoft.com/exPress/ you can download the latest source code directly from the Rawr website and run the very very latest code, which is typically updated daily.

EnhSim releases are at the mercy of Myself, Rouncer & Alandovos at present. We could however do with another C++ developer and a Mac developer so that we can get the Elementals CD changes added, Fire Nova added, and Tier 10 bonuses added.
#2695SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Desertbull
Hello,
I hope this is the right thread to ask my question.

EnhSim is currently confusing me with EP values for haste. I'm at about 620 haste rating, which means my weapon speed in raids is below 1.4. Anyway, haste value has decreased from 2.9 to 1.8, so it's quite useless against pure AP.
I thought haste value only decreases between 1.5 and 1.4, so I thought its value should actually increase again now.

Is it a bug in the simulator oder a "haste cap"? I'm not quite sure how to change my gems now because of these strange values. Please help me with this.

Kind regards
#2696SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
lae
Hello,
I also have difficulties in understanding EP's values.

For example I use two differents rotation priorities. Everything else remains the same.


config 1: MW5_LB / FS / ES_SS / SS / ES / MT / LL / LS / SR / SW
config 2: MW5_LB / FS / ES_SS / SS / ES / MT / LL / LS / SR / SW / MW4_LB



CONFIG FILES:
config1:
### Saved by v1.8.5.2 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   8.00
report_count                    80
threads                         1
combat_length_rng_factor        0.1
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         150
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    3
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       2500
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         10
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              FS
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              SR
rotation_priority10             SW

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10643
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          196.5
oh_dps                          196.5
mh_crit                         43.41
oh_crit                         43.41
mh_hit                          13.78
oh_hit                          13.78
mh_expertise_rating             143
oh_expertise_rating             143
ap                              4753
melee_haste                     14.83
armor_penetration               4.86
str                             141
agi                             1229
int                             695
spi                             165
spellpower                      1426
spell_crit                      32.11
spell_hit                       17.23
spell_haste                     11.41
max_mana                        14541
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        45263

totem                           47667

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

config2 :
### Saved by v1.8.5.2 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   8.00
report_count                    80
threads                         1
combat_length_rng_factor        0.1
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         150
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    3
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       2500
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         11
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              FS
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              SR
rotation_priority10             SW
rotation_priority11             MW4_LB

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10643
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          196.5
oh_dps                          196.5
mh_crit                         43.41
oh_crit                         43.41
mh_hit                          13.78
oh_hit                          13.78
mh_expertise_rating             143
oh_expertise_rating             143
ap                              4753
melee_haste                     14.83
armor_penetration               4.86
str                             141
agi                             1229
int                             695
spi                             165
spellpower                      1426
spell_crit                      32.11
spell_hit                       17.23
spell_haste                     11.41
max_mana                        14541
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        45263

totem                           47667

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5



RESULTS:
config1:
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      8011.45
ap                        1.00      0.67      8144.65        133.20
crit rating               1.78      1.19      8047.10        35.64
hit rating                1.65      1.10      8044.50        33.05
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -8011.45
haste rating              1.47      0.98      8040.81        29.36
armor penetration rating  1.39      0.92      8039.16        27.70
spellpower                1.08      0.72      8119.26        107.81
mh dps                    5.22      3.47      8037.51        26.06
oh dps                    2.42      1.61      8023.54        12.09
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.75      
intelligence              1.27      
spirit                    -0.01     -0.00     8010.91        -0.54
mana                      -0.01     -0.00     8010.23        -1.22
mp5                       0.05      0.03      8012.11        0.66

config2:
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      8038.28
ap                        1.00      0.68      8174.35        136.07
crit rating               1.82      1.24      8075.52        37.24
hit rating                1.67      1.14      8072.40        34.12
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -8038.28
haste rating              2.38      1.62      8086.77        48.49
armor penetration rating  1.41      0.96      8067.09        28.81
spellpower                1.10      0.75      8150.12        111.84
mh dps                    5.29      3.60      8065.29        27.01
oh dps                    2.88      1.96      8052.96        14.68
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.74      
intelligence              1.60      
spirit                    -0.01     -0.00     8037.70        -0.58
mana                      0.01      0.01      8040.12        1.84
mp5                       -0.03     -0.02     8037.93        -0.35

There is a very small difference in term of dps (about 27dps) between the two rotations.
On one side (config1 without MW4), haste rating is better than AP or crit rating and on the other side that's the exact opposite.

Is it really as interresting as everybody says to focus on haste rather than on crit ?

Moreover is there a way to synchronize LB with SS charges or to use SS only if there is no remaining SS charges ? I'll be interested in testing that.


(Sorry for my bad english)

Last edited by lae : 11/07/09 at 3:37 PM.
#2697SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by lae View Post
Hello,
I also have difficulties in understanding EP's values.

For example I use two differents rotation priorities. Everything else remains the same.


config 1: MW5_LB / FS / ES_SS / SS / ES / MT / LL / LS / SR / SW
config 2: MW5_LB / FS / ES_SS / SS / ES / MT / LL / LS / SR / SW / MW4_LB
Move SR (and SW) to the top of your priority list since you are most likely running out of mana at some point with the config using MW4. That's also why you are showing such a high EP value for Intellect since you are running OOM while waiting for a free priority to use SR.
#2698SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3lae
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Move SR (and SW) to the top of your priority list since you are most likely running out of mana at some point with the config using MW4. That's also why you are showing such a high EP value for Intellect since you are running OOM while waiting for a free priority to use SR.
But when I simulate with the config using MW4 I obtain that report :
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2455.60   30.55%    82.07
windfury            955.12    11.88%    6.92
flametongue         610.53    7.6%      52.90
stormstrike         438.17    5.45%     6.60      36.37     12.62%
lava lash           369.85    4.6%      7.86      21.65     7.51%
magma totem         606.73    7.55%     2.84      52.88     18.35%
earth shock         551.25    6.86%     5.72      70.90     24.60%
flame shock         306.78    3.82%     2.86      33.49     11.62%
lightning bolt      1052.32   13.09%    9.52      69.78     24.21%
lightning shield    380.99    4.74%     1.77      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       310.85    3.87%     0.37      3.10      1.08%

DPS                 8038.17
MPS                 288.16
MP2min              34579.17
MRPS                278.89
Out of mana time    0.02%
It seems to show that I am not running oom and that's why I've prefered increasing the min mana to use SR rather than putting it to the top of my priorities. It results in a dps increase.

Are the 0,02% OOM time as influent as that ?
#2699SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Razanar
"Everybody" doesn't say to focus entirely on haste. Haste is a very volatile stat, and it's understood now that haste should be very delicately handled when replacing other stats for it.

On your EP values, I would think that the spike in haste comes from the fact that more haste = shorter MW_4 cast time, which means less "melee swing time" missed from casting.
#2700SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3ziff
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
EnhSim releases are at the mercy of Myself, Rouncer & Alandovos at present. We could however do with another C++ developer and a Mac developer so that we can get the Elementals CD changes added, Fire Nova added, and Tier 10 bonuses added.
I'm almost done coding the T10 bonuses, but I have a question for how we want the 2 piece bonus triggered. As of today, SR is only used when the current mana drops below a threshold. With the new bonus, I assume we will want to use SR just like any other skill, immediately after it comes up after cooldown. So should we just ignore the mana threshold when the T10 2P bonus exists? Have another option on how to trigger SR? Have people manually change the mana threshold to trigger earlier? I kind of like the first option, since it's less likely people will forget to change an option when they enable the T10 2P bonus

Looking at the code, I'm going to try to model the fire elemental after the way the Spirit Wolfs were implemented. But I need to know some specifics on how the fire elemental works.
- What are the complete set of skills it has?
- Does it just do it's AOE attack and never does melee?
- Does it's stats get effected at all by ours?
- How much mana does it have and how much mana is used for each skill?
- What is it's in-game mana regen rate?
- Does it get effected by Judgement of Wisdom? Replenishment?

Finally, could somebody give me a roll-up on how Fire Nova works.
- What is its cooldown
- What is its duration before firing
- What are the base damage numbers
- What are the spell coefficients?
- Does it get effected by any of our other talents, like Call of Flame, Elemental Fury, etc
- How much mana does it use?
- Does it share a cooldown with anything else?
- Does Fire Nova work with the Fire Elemental totem?

I'm not on the PTR currently so I can't do this research on how these talents work on the PTR. Can somebody do this research so I can make sure this code works correctly? I understand that they might completely change things before it goes Live, but it should be interesting to see the impact of these changes on our dps.
#2701SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Leave SR as it is currently implemented. It's easy enough to set the mana threshold to say 15000 so that SR becomes top priority to be used whenever it is off cooldown. That also gives us options for how to deal with the bonus and keeps validity for mana figures when we start adding things like the Fire Nova Glyph and Improved Fire Nova Talents.

Popping Fire Nova every 3 seconds is going to use an incredible amount of mana and without control over SR there would be no way to know if it would be at all sustainable. Perhaps it could be used as massive AoE for specific situations by popping SR when you get low on mana. Currently we can manipulate the combat length and mana level setting to determine when it would be best to pop SR for maximum duration without going oom but if you link the bonus to just using SR as a dps cooldown that option would be lost.

As for the Fire Elemental, it has 3 attacks. An AoE nova, a damage aura and a direct damage attack. Beyond that we will need testing to determine how he scales with spellpower (he does scale) and other stats as well how those abilities are used. Strawberry said he saw a 5 second cooldown on the Nova but we could use a lot more specific testing. We also need that testing to be on the Boss Dummy as well as little ones so we can see the Elemental's miss rate and determine if that is affected by our stats.

Fire Nova is exactly the same as the current totem except it becomes an activated instant ability with a 10 second cooldown. It should have a 21.42% coefficient. Questions are if it will still be affected by Call of Flame and whether it can proc and/or be affected by Elemental Focus (there were early reports that it could proc it but was unaffected by it). Fire Nova does work with the Fire Elemental Totem with the Nova originating off of the totem not the Elemental.
#2702SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
zimeron
A couple people tested out the Fire Elemental's scaling in the SimC group. Here's what we came up with:
Swing: 180 + 0.6 * SP + ( 2.0 / 14 ) * AP

Blast: ( 725 to 825 ) + 0.2 * SP

Nova: ( 925-1050 ) + 0.5 * SP

Shield: 96 + 0.015 * SP

Base Mana: 4000 + 15(0.3 * SP)
Nova is a two second cast and doesn't appear to have a cooldown.

His AI is also wonky and doesn't always appear to use every ability to it's fullest. For example he'll have .5 second pauses of nothing.

Last edited by zimeron : 11/09/09 at 11:26 AM.
#2703SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3dedmonwakeen
Some notes on my examination of (too many) Fire Elemental parses:

(1) I would agree with Strawberry on the 5sec CD for Fire Nova
(2) While Fire Nova may be a 2sec cast, the elemental never does anything 0.5sec after the cast is over..... so I have chosen to effectively model it as a 2.5sec cast
(3) Fire Blast also seems to have a 5sec CD
(4) There is no clear priority list. If both FB and FN are off cooldown, it seems random which one is picked
(5) Swing time is 2sec and un-modified by any haste effects
(6) If FB or FN will come off CD in less than 2sec, the Elemental will often just wait instead of trying to get in another melee swing. I haven't yet determined the crossover point yet.
(7) FN costs 207 mana and FB costs 276 mana
(8) The elemental has 4k base mana and inherits 30% of master's intellect, gaining 15 mana per intellect
(9) When out of the five-second-rule it gains 10.66 mana per second

Hope that helps. I'll have a version of SimC out (possibly tonight) with my implementation for comparison purposes if necessary.
#2704SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I was looking at the sim output trying to determine why Rawr.Enhance likes hit more than EnhSim likes hit. I noted the following phenomena. With both weapons having Berserking on them the MH Uptime was given as 42.18% and the OH as 37.23% however I was at a loss to think of a reason that the OH proc rate would be so much lower than the MH proc rate. Any thoughts/explanations?
#2705SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I was looking at the sim output trying to determine why Rawr.Enhance likes hit more than EnhSim likes hit. I noted the following phenomena. With both weapons having Berserking on them the MH Uptime was given as 42.18% and the OH as 37.23% however I was at a loss to think of a reason that the OH proc rate would be so much lower than the MH proc rate. Any thoughts/explanations?

Windfury hits can proc Berzerking
#2706SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Ryethe
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I was looking at the sim output trying to determine why Rawr.Enhance likes hit more than EnhSim likes hit. I noted the following phenomena. With both weapons having Berserking on them the MH Uptime was given as 42.18% and the OH as 37.23% however I was at a loss to think of a reason that the OH proc rate would be so much lower than the MH proc rate. Any thoughts/explanations?
Were they both 2.6 speed?

EDIT: I did some testing and the uptime persisted regardless of weapon speed.

EDIT2:
I ran a pure white hit test and am really confused by the results:
EnhSim version 1.8.5.2

...............................................................................


MH:
miss                2427018        9.51%
dodge               2600           0.01%
glancing            6121848        24.00%
hit                 4683856        18.36%
crit                12275527       48.12%
average ap          8157.07
clip                0              0.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.42%
procs/swings        14.85%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               780            0.01%
hit                 3705013        48.89%
crit                3872245        51.10%
average ap          8160.90

OH:
miss                2336396        9.52%
dodge               2406           0.01%
glancing            5894269        24.01%
hit                 4507579        18.36%
crit                11808753       48.10%
average ap          8159.76
clip                0              0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 12757259       57.44%
crit                9453342        42.56%
average sp          3047.38

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 38.80

flurry uptime                  85.65%
unleashed rage uptime          99.97%
elemental devastation uptime   0.00%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              35.49%
oh enchant uptime              23.99%
trinket1 uptime                20.18%
trinket2 uptime                32.06%
racial uptime                  0.00%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      22.66%
mp5                 0.00      165.93%
replenishment       -0.00     -50.18%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom -0.00     -38.41%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2288.57   64.72%    83.43
windfury            810.17    22.91%    6.32
flametongue         437.59    12.37%    37.02

DPS                 3536.32
MPS                 0.00
MP2min              0.00
MRPS                93.52
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 18.69s
simulation speed: 1926472x
I remember reading about having 50% of the proc rate on off-hand weapons but I thought that was no longer the case? Also the OH number isn't nearly 50% of the MH number in this case so that can't be it. Correct me if I'm wrong but MH and OH should have the same hit%, right?

Last edited by Ryethe : 11/09/09 at 3:41 PM.
#2707SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Stopokingme
Afaik the 50% offhand proc rate is a relic from 1.0, from rogues testing, not taking into account the extra main hand strikes triggering extra procs. You can safely disregard that.
#2708SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Jessamy
You did not do a pure white hit test. You still have windfury on your main hand and flametongue on your off hand. Since your test includes windfury attacks, the enchant uptimes will be skewed in your results. In-game (or in a more standard simulation run), stormstrike and lava lash will balance this some, since they add more off hand swings.

Here is a test run of the BiS thread config with no weapon imbues, and all attacks turned off. Enchant uptimes are very similar now.
EnhSim version 1.8.5.0

................................................................................

MH:
miss                1190567        8.73%
dodge               45892          0.34%
glancing            3274297        24.01%
hit                 2062187        15.12%
crit                7064564        51.80%
average ap          8375.71        
clip                0              0.00%

OH:
miss                1191761        8.74%
dodge               46366          0.34%
glancing            3273344        24.00%
hit                 2073985        15.21%
crit                7052053        51.71%
average ap          8361.05        
clip                0              0.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 35.80

flurry uptime                  86.61%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   0.00%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              24.09%
oh enchant uptime              24.19%
trinket1 uptime                20.07%
trinket2 uptime                32.02%
racial uptime                  0.00%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      54.76%
mp5                 0.00      99.34%
replenishment       -0.00     -30.05%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom -0.00     -24.06%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2780.68   100%      90.92

DPS                 2780.68
MPS                 0.00
MP2min              0.00
MRPS                97.74
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 13.97s
simulation speed: 1288659x

Last edited by Jessamy : 11/10/09 at 11:08 AM.
#2709SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Levva, any chance you could update the default ep_* values in the default config file to reflect actual item budget? It doesn't matter per se as it's just used to calculate EP but with values like 40 AP, 20 haste, etc you'll have something closer to actual gear changes. Given an empty socket it's even a perfect simulation of how to gem an item. Default AP and SP EP values are just so much higher than everything else and I don't see why.
#2710SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Murmor
I've spent some time trying to get up to speed with Enhsim and Rawr, to try and help figure out where they disagree.

One difference is that Rawr uses the same average AP for all abilities, for Enhsim they come out different. ToQE accounts for a lot of that, as the lava lash that procs it doesn't get the effect. I can't prove that at the moment, though.

Also, Enhsim can proc something off a main hand Stormstrike and have that effect apply to the offhand. Offhand SS is showing more average AP then mainhand SS. Does this happen in the game too?
#2711SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Murmor View Post
I've spent some time trying to get up to speed with Enhsim and Rawr, to try and help figure out where they disagree.

One difference is that Rawr uses the same average AP for all abilities, for Enhsim they come out different. ToQE accounts for a lot of that, as the lava lash that procs it doesn't get the effect. I can't prove that at the moment, though.

Also, Enhsim can proc something off a main hand Stormstrike and have that effect apply to the offhand. Offhand SS is showing more average AP then mainhand SS. Does this happen in the game too?
I'd be interested to try an EnhSim with say 100,000 hours or more time to see if the average AP & SP settled down on each ability. I wouldn't believe the current variations at present as the sim length is too short to see them settle down.

This should at least smooth out the effects of ToQE you describe as in theory as the combat sim length tends to infinity so the variations should tend to zero and work out to be the average. This is of course unless there is a complex feedback mechanism such as with WF, MW5, ED & haste, where different rules apply and even Rawr needs an iterative approach.

On default config.txt - yup sure I can change them - Do we reckon that it should be just the value of 1 epic gem ie: 40 AP, 23 SP and 20 everything else?
#2712SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Raut
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
On default config.txt - yup sure I can change them - Do we reckon that it should be just the value of 1 epic gem ie: 40 AP, 23 SP and 20 everything else?
Not sure. 40/20/23 are good because they are one gem but slight deviation because of RNG are more significant. Perhaps 80/40/46?
#2713SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Murmor
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I'd be interested to try an EnhSim with say 100,000 hours or more time to see if the average AP & SP settled down on each ability. I wouldn't believe the current variations at present as the sim length is too short to see them settle down.

This should at least smooth out the effects of ToQE you describe as in theory as the combat sim length tends to infinity so the variations should tend to zero and work out to be the average. This is of course unless there is a complex feedback mechanism such as with WF, MW5, ED & haste, where different rules apply and even Rawr needs an iterative approach.
I think LL will always have a lower average AP than the other abilities, because of it's interaction with ToQE. During a fight you have time when Volcanic Fury is active and times when it isn't. You always know the last ability before it becomes active is LL. I'll run a 100,000 hour sim to prove it, though.
#2714SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
How sure are you that the Lava Lash that procs Volcanic Fury isn't affected by it? I would work on testing that conclusion in game before worrying about how that is modeled in the sim.

Shouldn't be hard to test. Stand sideways to a level 60 dummy naked with a white/grey slow offhand (to minimize the damage range and maximize the effect of the proc) and start Lava Lashing. Once you have a decent control sample, equip the totem and do a bunch tracking only the ones that proc and then clicking it off. If there is no difference in the average value of the ones that proc versus the control group then you have proved your theory.
#2715SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Murmor
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
How sure are you that the Lava Lash that procs Volcanic Fury isn't affected by it? I would work on testing that conclusion in game before worrying about how that is modeled in the sim.

Shouldn't be hard to test. Stand sideways to a level 60 dummy naked with a white/grey slow offhand (to minimize the damage range and maximize the effect of the proc) and start Lava Lashing. Once you have a decent control sample, equip the totem and do a bunch tracking only the ones that proc and then clicking it off. If there is no difference in the average value of the ones that proc versus the control group then you have proved your theory.
Fair point. I did this test and it didn't take long to conclude that LL works the way I thought. For the record with only [Hammer] in the offhand LL hits for 70-77 regardless of whether ToQE procs or not. Once the proc is active it will hit for about 110-120. It was pretty obvious that nothing more detailed was required.

With that in mind - the numbers for the 100,000 hour sim are:

Average AP for ability:
MH7904.86
MH WF7908.41
MS SS7893.52
OH7908.22
OS SS7936.85
LL7880.01

And the full output was

C:\Users\loz\Documents\src\EnhSim-30240\Release>EnhSim.exe murmor_config.txt
EnhSim version 1.8.5.2

................................................................................


MH:
miss                9569330        4.07%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            56452751       24.00%
hit                 53670936       22.82%
crit                115480121      49.10%
average ap          7904.86
clip                0              0.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.37%
procs/swings        15.80%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 41441974       47.91%
crit                45056958       52.09%
average ap          7908.41

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 18502635       47.99%
crit                20053607       52.01%
average ap          7893.52

OH:
miss                9955551        4.07%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            58680297       24.00%
hit                 55742432       22.80%
crit                120141566      49.13%
average ap          7908.22
clip                0              0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 191516379      60.53%
crit                124887936      39.47%
average sp          2973.16

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 18467924       47.90%
crit                20088318       52.10%
average ap          7936.85

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 29061539       60.53%
crit                18949065       39.47%
average sp          2973.66

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 20630958       47.66%
crit                22652820       52.34%
average ap          7880.01

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 31854266       60.52%
crit                20779391       39.48%
average sp          2978.96

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 61874962       100.00%
crit                0              0.00%
average sp          2982.48

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            40508300       24.00%
hit                 108881100      64.51%
crit                19392856       11.49%
average ap          7917.94

Magma Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 88767677       60.53%
crit                57873248       39.47%
average sp          2975.64

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 49.15

flurry uptime                  90.68%
unleashed rage uptime          100.00%
elemental devastation uptime   74.05%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              43.69%
oh enchant uptime              37.68%
trinket1 uptime                32.46%
trinket2 uptime                18.07%
racial uptime                  0.00%
totem uptime                   91.40%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 18.03     8.71%
replenishment       38.47     18.58%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 8.96      4.33%
shamanistic rage    47.81     23.10%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         93.74     45.28%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2240.81   31.31%    79.95
windfury            947.24    13.23%    7.21
flametongue         577.49    8.07%     52.73
stormstrike         453.65    6.34%     6.43      35.41     16.03%
lava lash           369.12    5.16%     7.21      19.87     9.00%
magma totem         506.65    7.08%     2.49      46.29     20.96%
earth shock         585.70    8.18%     8.00      51.71     23.42%
lightning bolt      919.67    12.85%    8.77      64.27     29.10%
lightning shield    336.23    4.7%      1.15      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       220.80    3.08%     0.40      3.28      1.49%

DPS                 7157.36
MPS                 220.83
MP2min              26499.57
MRPS                214.56
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 100000.00h
elapsed real time: 560.74s
simulation speed: 642011x
Config File:
#################	
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//comment marks are # and //
##  v1.8.5.2   ##   //if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value


//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.
//You always input what you see on your character sheet/paper doll.

simulation_time			100000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			10	//in minutes
combat_length_rng_factor        0.1	//Maximum random adjustment to add to each combat run, specified as a decimal % (0.1 = 10%)
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				250	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				250	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			1	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account



########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results. Best scenario is low EP ranges and high simulation time.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have. To skip a test, use 0 as range.

//Which stat is used as baseline stat, meaning it gets EP value of 1. This is important when calculating EP values.
ep_precision			2 //how many digits there are in ep value?
ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				200
ep_crit_rating 			30
ep_hit_rating 			30
ep_expertise 			4 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		30
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	30
ep_spellpower 			150
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				250
ep_spirit			150
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	0	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		1	//{ 0 | 1 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	1250	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SW = spirit wolves
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//ES_SS = earth shock only if there are stormstrike charges
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//MT = magma totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		8
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2		SR
rotation_priority3		MW5_LB
rotation_priority4		SS
rotation_priority5		ES
rotation_priority6		LL
rotation_priority7		MT
rotation_priority8		LS



##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				8.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			24.00	//%
armor				10643	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0
arcane_resistance		0
shadow_resistance		0



###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########

##########################################
### Rawr.Enhance Data Export to EnhSim ###
##########################################

config_source rawr

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.7
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          196.5
oh_dps                          196.5
mh_crit                         33.08
oh_crit                         33.08
mh_hit                          16.93
oh_hit                          16.93
mh_expertise_rating             144
oh_expertise_rating             144
ap                              4373
melee_haste                     12.37
armor_penetration               7.57
str                             145
agi                             1038
int                             578
spi                             165
spellpower                      1312
spell_crit                      23.37
spell_hit                       21.16
spell_haste                     9.52
max_mana                        12786
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
mh_weapon                       axe
oh_enchant                      3789
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        47303
trinket2                        45286

totem                           47667
set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      t9_battlegear_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -
glyph_major1                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -


cast_sr_only_if_mana_left 1250
replenishment             1
water_shield              0
mana_spring_totem         0
blessing_of_wisdom        1
judgement_of_wisdom       1


#############
## Talents ##
#############

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

#########
# Buffs #
#########

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0.0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60
bloodlust_casters               1
flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast
#2716SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Murmor View Post
Fair point. I did this test and it didn't take long to conclude that LL works the way I thought. For the record with only [Hammer] in the offhand LL hits for 70-77 regardless of whether ToQE procs or not. Once the proc is active it will hit for about 110-120. It was pretty obvious that nothing more detailed was required.

With that in mind - the numbers for the 100,000 hour sim are:

Average AP for ability:
MH7904.86
MH WF7908.41
MS SS7893.52
OH7908.22
OS SS7936.85
LL7880.01

And the full output was
Interesting. I can look at amending Rawr.Enhance to modify LL effects. The other thing of note is the variance between MH SS & OH SS as these two are the only ones significantly off the 7908 base. Interesting MH is lower than base OH is higher. Any theories as to why?
#2717SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
stassart
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Interesting MH is lower than base OH is higher. Any theories as to why?
[Formula: Enchant Weapon - Berserking] would be my theory. I have not tested if it is the behavior in game, but I am guessing that in EnhSim if Berserking procs on the MH hit of Stormstrike then the OH hit gets the benefit. A trinket ([Blood of the Old God] for example) that increases attack power and procs off the main hand hit could also be a source.

In game on Stormstrike, the main hand does hit before the off-hand, that is not difficult to verify and has been tested. In the case of windfury proc at least the proc is applied before the off-hand swing (in previous testing if windfury is applied to both weapons the MH will have a higher proc rate than the OH). I do not know if that means that other types of procs are applied before the OH hit though.

Edit: If the OH SS AP was actually higher in game, wouldn't the OH SS damage before more than half the MH SS damage? I just spent some time looking over WoL parses and in every large combatlog the OH SS was 50% of MH SS +- 1%. That does not seem to match what I would expect if the EnhSim behavior was correct? This is far from conclusive as 20 or so hours of in game combat comes nowhere near to the 5,000-10,000 hours of EnhSim runs, but it does make me question.

Last edited by stassart : 11/12/09 at 10:17 AM.
#2718SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Murmor
I ran some simple tests in game, with a hammer in one hand and a weapon with berserking on in the other to see how Stormstrike works.

What I concluded is that:

1. Either both MH and OH hit (either can be a crit), or SS as a whole is parried/dodged/missed. To me, it looks like Enhsim can have OH miss/parry/dodge independently of MH hit.
2. Berserking proc on MH nearly always affects the OH. I saw one occasion when it didn't. As hard as I stared at it, the number didn't change.
3. UR procs off the MH don't affect the OH

What I couldn't answer without a much longer test, (or for the rich, putting berserking on a hammer). Is whether the ability that procs berserking gets the AP bonus or not. My numbers are suggestive that it doesn't, but not conclusive.
#2719SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Murmor View Post
I ran some simple tests in game, with a hammer in one hand and a weapon with berserking on in the other to see how Stormstrike works.

What I concluded is that:

1. Either both MH and OH hit (either can be a crit), or SS as a whole is parried/dodged/missed. To me, it looks like Enhsim can have OH miss/parry/dodge independently of MH hit.
2. Berserking proc on MH nearly always affects the OH. I saw one occasion when it didn't. As hard as I stared at it, the number didn't change.
3. UR procs off the MH don't affect the OH

What I couldn't answer without a much longer test, (or for the rich, putting berserking on a hammer). Is whether the ability that procs berserking gets the AP bonus or not. My numbers are suggestive that it doesn't, but not conclusive.
You are always rich on the PTR. It is effectively fake money on the PTR assuming you transfer a character with heaps of cash. You can blow it all on berserking on a hammer and it won't effect your live character. This is probably worth doing as if EnhSim is inaccurately modelling Stormstrike or berserking procs then that needs fixed.
#2720SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Just to let people know I've had two individuals put themselves forward to assist with adding the T10 stuff to EnhSim, Eralun and Arbreng. Eralun will help with general coding and features, Arbreng is keen to get the multi-threading working again to dramatically speed up the time it takes the sim to complete.
#2721SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Torcha
(deleted)

Last edited by Torcha : 11/13/09 at 9:21 PM.
#2722SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Further update...

Ziff has also now joined the EnhSim team and will be checking in his T10 patch changes soon. So hopefully we can have v1.9.0 ready BEFORE patch 3.3 hits.
#2723SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Funaria
Call of Flame and Fire Nova

I do not have logs, and am not sure how to link talents from the PTR if it is possible. Sorry for that. However, I haven't seen a reply yet to Rouncer's question as to whether Call of Flame affects the new Fire Nova spell.

The tooltip on the talent on the PTR says: Increases the damage done by your fire totems and Fire Nova by 5/10/15% and the damage done by your Lava Burst spell by 2/4/6%.

To ensure that it was actually working as the tooltip made it appear, I did a statistically insignificant number of tests (because I knew I couldn't show logs and was only checking to make sure there was no bug). First I tested on a target dummy with 5 points spent in Convection and no other talent points spent. Normal hits were between 942 and 980, with a crit of 1444. Damage went up gradually with each point spent in Call of Flame, culminating in a non-crit average of 1126 and a crit of 1771.

I was using a Frost Resistance totem to avoid any effects from the totem itself, and wore the same gear for all testing. (I didn't have the bag space to go naked.)
#2724SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I've just added Elam author of various articles & guides on EnhSim to the EnhSim project as a documentation editor. He will take on the task of updating the wiki on the EnhSim website. He should be able to start soon on fleshing out the wiki with various articles and compiling some proper documentation, and how to guides.
#2725SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Extenze
I doubt this deserves it's own thread, and since it's dependent on EnhSim I'll just post it here. Included is the compiled EXE and the source AU3, it's an AutoIt Script file.

[e] Ha, I forgot the program's description. It's the program Levva was talking about that will run a bunch of simulations, change the RNG factor's in the config files, and save the results into a CSV file. This is also Windows ONLY.

http://dl3.dropbox.com/u/816613/rngOmatic.rar

It's operation's pretty straight forward. You type in the value which combat_length_rng_factor will incriment ex: 0.05,0.1,0.15... until it hits it's maximum, defaulted to 1. You'll want to hit "Create Configs" before you start it. It'll look at the original config in the 3rd input box, copy it and modify it and create as many as you want until it hits the maximum RNG factor. Just drop this in your enhsim directory and it's good to go.

Then hit Start and it'll run enhsim with the appropriate config file, and parse the outputs automatically and dump it to the rngOutput.txt everytime the RNG factor changes, or every 10 sims.

This script will output the results into a text file, but it's format should be compatible with any spreadsheet software. Just change the filetype to *.csv

Sample output:
rng,dps1,dps2,...,dps10
0.05,3065.08,3065.02,3065.73,3065.06,3065.35,3065.32,3064.95,3064.80,3065.32,3064.34
0.1,3064.57,3064.46,3065.00,3064.96,3065.44,3064.58,3064.63,3065.67,3064.42,3064.36

If you want to stop it while it's working, you'll have to right click the tray icon and exit that way.

There's no INI support, but it didn't seem like a big deal because there's only 3 inputs and it'll take quite a while for a full run.

You shouldn't have to worry about enhsim updates breaking this, as long as you don't change the names of the DPS result and combat_length_rng_factor.

**note: This script is using a quick and dirty way of monitoring CPU usage, which it uses as a notification that it's finished simming. It takes the cpu% off the status bar. You can minimize taskmgr.exe if you want to. Just don't close it. The default cpu% threshold is 50%

Let me know if any extra features are needed like being able to change the # of sims per RNG or something. And of course if you find any bugs.

[top]Change Log


Revision 8
*Added: EJ Table formatting, It's now completely copy-paste friendly. You will have to manually add STDEV values, however.
I did include that column in the header.
*Added: Hours to time estimation
*More tuning

Revision 7
*Added: Added a file open dialogue to find config.txt easier
*Fixed: fixed derivative configs not updating combat_length_rng_factor

Revision 6
*Quite a large speed increase and is way more reliable now (15-20mins off a standard run)

Revision 5
*Added: rngOutput.txt now has the incriment and maximum in it's name eg: rngOut_0.05_to_1.txt
*Added: sims per RNG, this lets you alter how many passes it makes per incriment, default 10
*Added: Add a starting point, so you can resume. Things happen

Revision 4
*Fixed the sim loop only working with 0.05
*It now starts with a config at 0 RNG factor

Revision 3
*Decided versions aren't my style
*Further corrections to estimated time

Version 1.0.1
*Added nopause too the end of execute string, nice time reduction
*Fixed time estimation
*No more includes, pulled everything into script. Reduced it's size by 2/3

Version 1
*Initial release

Last edited by Extenze : 11/24/09 at 3:11 PM.
#2726SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Jessamy
edit: It appears that even though setting increment to 0.01 correctly created 100 config files, the executable is only using config files in steps of 0.05. I'll let the run finish to completion anyway, but it looks like I'll only be providing 1/5 as much data as I had hoped. Also for more satisfactory comparison, it would be nice to have the program run through with an rng factor of 0 too.

edit2: I'll do it again with 0.01 using r4 of the executable, but here are the data I have available for now. For rigor and disclosure purposes, seed config file is from the OP of the BiS thread (boss armor corrected but otherwise unchanged).

edit3: I ran it with rng factor step size of 0.50 just to be able to get data for the zero condition to add to the output data. I took a first actual look at the output data and it appears that the rng factor has no affect at all, which I know isn't true from my earlier runs a few weeks ago. So I opened up a few of the config files created by the rngOmatic executable, and combat_length_rng_factor was still set to 0; the script didn't edit the file. So I guess I have a very large (110 points) sample size for one unmodified config file. I'll manually edit some config files for my next run.

For what it's worth, the average (mean) of the accidental data is 9360.28, with a stdev of 0.94.

config:
### Saved by v1.8.5.2 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   10
report_count                    80
threads                         1
combat_length_rng_factor        0
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         60
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    3
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       4000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         11
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LS
rotation_priority9              LL
rotation_priority10             MW3_LB
rotation_priority11             MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10643
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          216.5
oh_dps                          216.5
mh_crit                         41.81
oh_crit                         41.81
mh_hit                          12.26
oh_hit                          12.26
mh_expertise_rating             128
oh_expertise_rating             128
ap                              5444
melee_haste                     21.61
armor_penetration               22.90
str                             151
agi                             1339
int                             742
spi                             171
spellpower                      1633
spell_crit                      29.48
spell_hit                       15.32
spell_haste                     16.62
max_mana                        15246
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        45609
trinket2                        47464

totem                           47666

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   4/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
output (data useless for rng factor purposes):
0,9360.03,9359.41,9360.41,9360.19,9358.83,9360.11,9361.08,9359.56,9358.52,9359.16
0,9360.09,9358.51,9359.70,9359.48,9360.90,9362.15,9360.90,9358.65,9358.99,9360.22
0,9359.06,9360.72,9360.23,9359.71,9359.92,9360.40,9359.46,9361.46,9359.59,9361.37
0,9359.61,9359.71,9360.50,9359.55,9360.76,9360.72,9359.77,9359.17,9361.55,9362.39
0,9359.68,9360.33,9359.37,9360.75,9359.39,9359.29,9362.79,9360.35,9360.36,9361.02
0,9359.27,9360.16,9360.78,9360.55,9360.79,9359.97,9359.53,9361.77,9360.37,9359.76
0,9360.58,9359.38,9361.95,9362.08,9359.89,9361.32,9361.75,9360.65,9359.59,9361.11
0,9360.26,9361.64,9360.88,9359.91,9360.86,9360.11,9359.10,9361.36,9361.03,9360.29
0,9359.85,9361.46,9358.90,9361.47,9360.64,9359.33,9360.37,9361.20,9358.54,9360.63
0,9360.82,9360.16,9359.79,9360.80,9360.82,9361.51,9360.60,9361.46,9360.58,9360.47
0,9360.50,9360.16,9360.66,9359.78,9359.42,9360.52,9358.59,9361.00,9359.66,9359.92
0,9359.17,9361.69,9360.59,9360.94,9361.94,9359.09,9359.44,9359.63,9360.76,9361.91
0,9359.47,9362.60,9359.30,9360.41,9362.08,9362.32,9360.37,9359.09,9359.47,9360.53
0,9361.01,9359.21,9359.98,9359.38,9359.41,9360.71,9360.50,9360.92,9358.59,9359.10
0,9358.92,9361.59,9360.29,9360.67,9360.79,9360.38,9361.54,9359.58,9359.04,9360.53
0,9360.33,9360.61,9361.06,9359.74,9360.48,9359.54,9362.04,9360.45,9358.99,9361.36
0,9361.21,9360.37,9361.35,9359.80,9359.65,9358.67,9359.57,9360.14,9360.62,9360.23
0,9358.57,9361.10,9359.14,9360.51,9359.70,9361.34,9359.56,9362.19,9360.45,9361.37
0,9361.22,9359.69,9361.44,9360.84,9359.91,9360.71,9360.26,9361.08,9359.99,9360.15
0,9361.22,9359.39,9358.49,9359.70,9359.87,9361.05,9360.36,9359.72,9361.62,9361.42
0,9359.21,9358.98,9358.83,9359.08,9361.37,9360.15,9358.86,9358.89,9359.98,9360.77

Last edited by Jessamy : 11/22/09 at 11:30 PM.
#2727SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Extenze
New version. Jessamy I can't see how it completed a whole run without changing the RNG, it's tied into variable that decides how to kill it so I dunno what to say.

Revision 5
*Added: rngOutput.txt now has the incriment and maximum in it's name eg: rngOut_0.05_to_1.txt
*Added: sims per RNG, this lets you alter how many passes it makes per incriment, default 10
*Added: Add a starting point, so you can change what RNG it starts at, like .4 or .8 instead of always starting at 0. Things happen

Last edited by Extenze : 11/23/09 at 12:04 AM.
#2728SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
After all that, I stand by my much earlier statement -- if we are using a 10 minute fight duration, a 35% rng factor is reasonable.
0.00,9358.69,9360.11,9360.61,9360.15,9361.05,9361.61,9361.06,9362.76,9359.69,9360.11
0.05,9374.32,9376.73,9375.44,9376.35,9375.58,9375.34,9374.70,9378.06,9375.74,9377.05
0.10,9378.03,9377.90,9378.14,9376.15,9375.08,9376.72,9377.44,9377.80,9375.62,9378.01
0.15,9376.71,9376.74,9378.34,9378.26,9376.37,9377.91,9376.55,9376.78,9377.39,9376.95
0.20,9375.91,9375.97,9376.50,9374.61,9377.70,9376.91,9376.02,9377.38,9378.42,9376.37
0.25,9379.82,9377.57,9378.94,9378.03,9378.36,9376.08,9379.50,9376.90,9378.38,9377.79
0.30,9384.19,9383.62,9383.17,9384.02,9385.05,9383.53,9383.26,9383.56,9382.83,9383.71
0.35,9386.27,9385.75,9387.03,9390.06,9386.87,9387.71,9386.55,9385.64,9387.15,9387.48
0.40,9387.20,9387.41,9387.56,9387.44,9386.46,9386.72,9385.43,9385.77,9386.80,9387.34
0.45,9384.73,9385.09,9387.51,9384.92,9384.88,9386.01,9385.41,9386.63,9385.90,9385.66
0.50,9384.31,9384.75,9385.40,9385.30,9382.64,9384.23,9386.30,9385.23,9383.85,9383.68
0.55,9383.21,9385.12,9384.10,9385.72,9384.69,9384.61,9384.99,9383.84,9386.25,9385.62
0.60,9385.62,9385.08,9385.77,9388.07,9387.82,9386.19,9385.66,9386.73,9387.54,9386.73
0.65,9387.12,9386.13,9388.51,9390.00,9389.10,9386.24,9387.59,9388.31,9389.87,9388.53
0.70,9389.38,9388.33,9387.53,9388.59,9386.81,9386.06,9387.94,9389.10,9387.79,9388.21
0.75,9387.92,9387.34,9386.22,9387.99,9385.71,9386.07,9387.19,9386.75,9387.46,9388.41
0.80,9387.10,9386.97,9385.15,9389.28,9386.95,9386.40,9384.86,9385.81,9385.33,9385.36
0.85,9386.58,9386.49,9383.74,9385.30,9386.01,9386.08,9386.47,9385.72,9386.14,9387.11
0.90,9387.29,9386.59,9386.99,9385.97,9387.16,9384.78,9386.41,9387.14,9387.39,9385.69
0.95,9386.66,9388.74,9384.89,9388.90,9388.18,9388.57,9388.07,9386.85,9388.91,9388.04
1.00,9385.58,9385.36,9385.74,9385.78,9386.02,9387.14,9386.80,9385.66,9387.28,9386.63
0.00,9360.584,1.118
0.05,9375.931,1.128
0.10,9377.089,1.122
0.15,9377.200,0.728
0.20,9376.579,1.078
0.25,9378.137,1.138
0.30,9383.694,0.619
0.35,9387.051,1.259
0.40,9386.813,0.736
0.45,9385.674,0.879
0.50,9384.569,1.049
0.55,9384.815,0.928
0.60,9386.521,1.028
0.65,9388.140,1.362
0.70,9387.974,1.003
0.75,9387.106,0.898
0.80,9386.321,1.327
0.85,9385.964,0.926
0.90,9386.541,0.843
0.95,9387.781,1.285
1.00,9386.199,0.699
#2729SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Extenze
Revision 6
*Quite a large speed increase and is way more reliable now
#2730SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Aiming for a beta release of v1.9.0.0 at 5pm GMT Tuesday 24th November 2009. This will NOT be suitable for general use, it is intended for serious testers only. ie: we will need feedback on the EnhSim site please on any issues found. It would also be useful for testers to provide feedback to say that new stuff or things that have changed actually work.

If there are things that need to be included in v1.9.0 for patch 3.3 and they are not already covered PLEASE raise an issue so that its on the to do list. EnhSim - Issue Tracker

NB. Fire Elemental is on the to do list

V1.9.0 Changes
Following calculations on EJ EnhSim thread setting default combat length variation to 35%
Added a config_version parameter to config.txt
Added warning if config version doesn't match program version to reduce chances of people using old config files.
Added extra priorities to default priority list.
Added in the T10 2 piece and 4 piece bonus
Refactored the way set bonuses are done to deal with the two bonuses on T10 that are proc based
Added a new switch called 'cast_sr_on_cooldown', to help deal with when the T10 2p bonus can be triggered. Haven't added it to the UI until it's clear this option is the correct way to add this.
added mixology buff option.
Fixed progress bar under linux.
SS_0. Stormstrike if no SS debuff on the target (Zif's patch)
LL_QE. Lava Lash if Quaking Earth buff not active (Zif's patch)
** WoW Patch 3.3 **
- Fire Nova spell
- Fire Nova Glyph
- Fire Nova talent
Added an uptime tracker for the fire totems. (magma and searing totem)
Fixed a message box issue which occured when the app couldn't find the last used config file (it will now only show this message box the first time it runs into this problem)
Fixed a bug with saving the settings from EnhSimGUI under windows7
Change config to have EP Steps equivalent to 2 epic gems
GUI : Added check for Rawr copy data to clipboard being used in error.
Updated Weapon_Enchants.cpp with optimisations to save double calculating stuff for combat log output

Last edited by Levva : 11/23/09 at 8:10 AM.
#2731SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Extenze
Using the same config as Jessamy. 10k hour sims
edit: Wouldn't it be more helpful to find the high-low rather than the stdev?
edit2: you're correct, I'll figure it out

edit3: Alright I figured out the issue with the config files. My regular expression is matching a decimal value, and if the original config.txt has a 0 for the combat_length_rng_factor then my expression doesn't return an array and thus doesn't get edited. So, don't have it = 0. I'll add some error checking on that.
edit4: I just made the decimal not mandatory, I'll have a new build up after I'm done simming. 159m left

Last edited by Extenze : 11/23/09 at 3:52 PM.
#2732SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Jessamy
Extenze, are you sure your rng is changing? Your numbers seem to all be the same as the 0% case. Try opening up config0.15.txt (or whatever) and check the combat_length_rng_factor line. To produce my output I manually edited that line.
#2733SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Extenze
I double checked this time. 10k hour simulations with the BIS config.

Revision 7
*Added: Added a file open dialogue to find config.txt easier
*Fixed: fixed derivative configs not updating combat_length_rng_factor

I'm also gonna work on auto setting cpu affinities so I can get this done 2x as fast.
Variance %DataDataDataDataDataDataDataDataDataData Std Deviation
09358.899360.559360.059360.139359.059359.79360.629361.289361.69361.20.92
0.059375.899375.569376.539375.329374.539375.399375.89375.289374.839374.190.69
0.19378.289378.299378.689379.479378.369379.229379.399377.879378.329379.090.56
0.159376.369377.099378.449377.079376.449376.119376.779376.559377.679377.180.69
0.29377.819376.499375.919377.719376.889376.619376.3593779376.19377.780.7
0.259378.189378.719377.899377.629378.019378.379379.079377.689377.849378.450.47
0.39383.459381.719382.549384.379383.089384.359383.619383.399383.889383.730.81
0.359387.089386.049387.599387.849386.419387.719386.119387.529387.189387.840.7
0.49386.139386.659387.619386.469387.079387.669387.289386.19387.999386.850.66
0.459386.259385.889384.849385.619384.999385.979386.129384.519386.679384.510.77
0.59385.029384.749383.819384.859383.979384.949384.579383.649383.669384.340.54
0.559386.149384.989383.39384.919384.549384.349383.769384.129382.239384.51.05
0.69386.469386.659387.229385.859386.239386.119386.249386.099386.479384.750.64
0.659389.829387.699388.249387.479387.189389.059388.399388.389388.369387.690.78
0.79387.739388.479388.559387.699389.149389.359388.189387.829388.99387.120.71
0.759387.719386.589386.119387.389387.019386.939387.79387.199386.159387.980.65
0.89385.889385.99386.579387.259385.559386.999386.759387.269385.999386.460.61
0.859385.79386.029385.439384.639386.159386.899388.019386.129385.379386.550.93
0.99385.629385.759387.519387.899387.269387.749385.889386.749386.519388.040.92
0.959387.989388.659389.059387.459387.639388.59389.489387.429389.599389.620.91
19386.639386.69385.979385.29388.449387.099386.159387.59387.079387.39 

Last edited by Extenze : 11/23/09 at 8:57 PM.
#2734SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Guys for these tests PLEASE use more than one config.txt you are getting large samples on the data which is great but if that only holds true for that file and is completely different for other files we are screwed.

Please use the default config.txt file as supplied in the download + say 3 or 4 random Enh Shammy's. Please note the BiS thread config.txt file is invalid as its a v1.7.0 config file.
#2735SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
Also could you start formating the data as a table before I go blind trying to look for truth inside those walls of numbers.

[ table ] and use | for breaks between data points and hit enter for the next line of the table

Maybe something like this:

Variance %DataDataDataDataDataDataDataDataDataData Std Deviation
09358.899360.559360.059360.139359.059359.79360.629361.289361.69361.20.92
0.059375.899375.569376.539375.329374.539375.399375.89375.289374.839374.190.69
0.19378.289378.299378.689379.479378.369379.229379.399377.879378.329379.090.59

Or just skip the Table=head part and have your script output swap all the commas for | then you could just copy/paste the output between [ table ] and [ /table ] and it would be far more legible and easy to comprehend.

Last edited by Rouncer : 11/23/09 at 8:06 PM.
#935889SourcePosted onundefined9358.89
#2736SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Graphing it makes it easier to see...



From zero theres a sharp rise at 5%, a levelling off between 5% and 30% then a sharp rise again at 35% which remains fairly constant thereafter.

This is the source of my concern. I'm wondering if the sharp rises are nothing more than haste sweet spots for that specific config file. If it can be re-run for other characters.

eg: Levva, Khadgar, EU
Rouncer, Mal'Ganis, US
Barawr, Blade's Edge, US

NB. v1.9.0.0 of EnhSim will be released in around 2 hours, so better using that and it's config file as a fresh baseline.

[Edit]: v1.9.0.0 now released

Last edited by Levva : 11/24/09 at 1:41 PM.
#2737SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Rouncer
So I started playing with 1.9 and it seems that haste is gaining even more value with the introduction of Fire Nova because of GCD starvation (e: scratch most of that - seems to be an issue with Magma Totem refreshment - move that to a much higher priority and haste drops down to a more normal level. Most likely due to the inability to refresh Magma Totem early in the Sim).

Would it be possible to add a "cleave" option to EnhSim? So that it would run the simulations with a primary target and a selectable number of additional targets? Maybe lock that option to 10 at most so the AoE cap wouldn't have to be incorporated (or just don't lock it but have it throw an error to the board saying that the results will be inaccurate due to the AoE cap)?

I'd love to be able to work out better priorities/rotation for fights like Twins or Anub.

Last edited by Rouncer : 11/24/09 at 3:28 PM.
#2738SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shammiewow
Is there any kind of recommendation about how to run Enhsim to limit run-to-run variance?

I'm running 1.8.5.2, using 10,000 hours, and even with that I'm seeing DPS numbers running from 6893 to 6921, using the same set-up. Should I use an even longer sim?

I understand that Haste can be odd, but my Shammie is not a high-haste build, so I would think that the effects would be lessened.

It's hard to evaluate gear and talent choices when the Sim numbers bounce around so much from run to run.
#2739SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Extenze
I left it running 20k simulations when I went to sleep, it took 5h45m D:
This is using my characters setup.

20,000 hours

10000

5000 hours


I also made another revision, but didn't feel like posting till I had the graphs done. I'm finishing off my 10k simulation atm, it should take an hour. Although I doubt it'll be any different, the 5k and 20k are pretty much identical.

Revision 8
*Added: EJ Table formatting, It's now completely copy-paste friendly. You will have to manually add STDEV values, however.
I did include that column in the header.
*Added: Hours to time estimation
*More tuning

Last edited by Extenze : 11/24/09 at 10:28 PM. Reason: added 10k graph
#2740SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
@Shammiewow

We really cannot help unless you post your config.txt file. BTW please use v1.9.0.0 to see if that makes a difference.

@Rouncer

Yes I suspect that MT needs to be a lot higher in the priority - on testing on the PTR it just felt that way too often MT wasn't down. The new values in the sim show the fire totem uptime so it should be easy to test this theory.

Re: "Cleave"

1) Lets not call it that, way too much confusion

2) Are you basically thinking "Additional targets" and that all that is calculated is the extra dps to these additional targets?

If so perhaps we have simply an additional output line for "additional target AOE damage" and only AoE damage skills are affected ie: Magma totem, Fire Nova, Fire Elemental (Fire Nova), Chain Lightning. ie: these damage abilities have an extra tracking value for "additional_aoe_damage".

Config parameters could be "additional_targets" with as you suggest a default of zero and a max of 10. Would it be an idea to have a "additional_target_presence" which would be a percentage. 100% would be like twins where the targets are always present and say 40% for Anub? I'd see this as implements with a random factor, if ability is AoE and roll <= additional_target_presence then add damage multiplied by additional_targets to additional_aoe_damage.

This would give a non patchwerk style couple of parameters to play with.

BTW verification of FN spellpower co-efficient is required. I used the figure on wowwiki and not sure its up to date.
#2741SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
Re: "Cleave"

1) Lets not call it that, way too much confusion

2) Are you basically thinking "Additional targets" and that all that is calculated is the extra dps to these additional targets?

If so perhaps we have simply an additional output line for "additional target AOE damage" and only AoE damage skills are affected ie: Magma totem, Fire Nova, Fire Elemental (Fire Nova), Chain Lightning. ie: these damage abilities have an extra tracking value for "additional_aoe_damage".

Config parameters could be "additional_targets" with as you suggest a default of zero and a max of 10. Would it be an idea to have a "additional_target_presence" which would be a percentage. 100% would be like twins where the targets are always present and say 40% for Anub? I'd see this as implements with a random factor, if ability is AoE and roll <= additional_target_presence then add damage multiplied by additional_targets to additional_aoe_damage.

This would give a non patchwerk style couple of parameters to play with.

BTW verification of FN spellpower co-efficient is required. I used the figure on wowwiki and not sure its up to date.
Probably don't need to get that complicated to actually work it by percentage of presence. Wouldn't really be that useful in this circumstance since your priority list should be different when you have multiple targets versus just a single target. Which is actually the reason why we now need this since our priorities actually can affect our AoE damage potential. So just adding an option to specify additional targets are present (and those only being affected by Chain Lightning, Magma and Fire Nova damage) with a value between 1 and 10 would be ideal.

Also would probably be a good idea to add an option to control the refresh time on Magma - so that we could say refresh based on priority provided there was 10 (or whatever value is specified) seconds or less on the timer. Set up the option similar to how it handles Lightning Shield or FS except based on time instead of ticks or charges.
#2742SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Totentanz
Originally Posted by Rouncer View Post
Would it be possible to add a "cleave" option to EnhSim? So that it would run the simulations with a primary target and a selectable number of additional targets? Maybe lock that option to 10 at most so the AoE cap wouldn't have to be incorporated (or just don't lock it but have it throw an error to the board saying that the results will be inaccurate due to the AoE cap)?

I'd love to be able to work out better priorities/rotation for fights like Twins or Anub.
please add, maybe under:

EnhSim - View Issue #4968: Add more Boss parameters
#2743SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
This comment added to that thread

Keep it simple since there is no reason to have the sim model every aspect of a combat encounter.

Things that are definite necessities
- option to simulate additional targets that would only be affected by Magma Totem, Fire Nova and Chain Lightning
- option to control when the simulator will refresh Magma Totem. Current system only refreshes when the totem expires which means no clipping of ticks but does mean there will be time where the totem won't be active. Option should let the user select the minimum number of seconds remaining before it will try to refresh the totem based on your priority list)

Things that would be nice but are not required
- percentage of time behind target. Would be nice to see if expertise does have value past the dodge cap for specific encounters.
- percentage of time in melee range. Would be nice to see if AP is valued higher then Haste when there are periods of time where the only action possible is shocking. Ideally it would only be modeling times when have to run out for regularly defined AoE attacks from the primary target. So basically would be random sporadic short periods of time (say 5 second windows) where no melee would be possible but shocking and using MW4/5 would be possible.

Anything more complicated falls into the realm of fluff and really isn't necessary or useful. That melee range percentage is pretty much already in that category and the time behind the target is pretty close as well. Considering it would require very specific encounters that would make us want to gear differently based on findings from those parameters. The multiple target thing was mostly fluff before 3.3 but with Fire Nova entering the picture it may have a large effect on our priorities when there is more then one target and the sim would be very helpful in working them out.
#2744SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I've actually posted two new issues EnhSim - View Issue #5501: Magma time left option and EnhSim - View Issue #5500: AoE damage with specifics of how we could possibly quickly implement these issues.

I'll leave it to those that know the C++ better than I to implement though as I tried to implement Black Magic enchant the other day and the result was the sim just hung in some sort of loop Slowly getting to understand C++ wierdnesses but its taking time.
#2745SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I've actually posted two new issues EnhSim - View Issue #5501: Magma time left option and EnhSim - View Issue #5500: AoE damage with specifics of how we could possibly quickly implement these issues.

I'll leave it to those that know the C++ better than I to implement though as I tried to implement Black Magic enchant the other day and the result was the sim just hung in some sort of loop Slowly getting to understand C++ wierdnesses but its taking time.

I saw your issues and made comments and then escalated them both so hopefully someone will work on them for the next release.
#2746SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Shammiewow
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
@Shammiewow

We really cannot help unless you post your config.txt file. BTW please use v1.9.0.0 to see if that makes a difference.
As you suggested, I tried 1.9.0.0 to see if it had the same large swings. I ran it four times at 10,000 hours and found that the results were almost without variance. The 4 runs varied by about 1 dps, or about 0.015%.

I'll be happy to post my 1.8.5.2 config if it would help you, but it seems like you've got this resolved in 1.9.0.0. Thank you!
#2747SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Quaglia
With this version it seems that also without using Fire nova there is a certain increase in DPS while moving MT up in the priority list.
But what it really puzzles me is that LL_QE seems to be rated quite low. I have run the simulator several times trying to put LL_QE in different places in the priority list and eventually I had the highest DPS putting it very low, just before "normal" LL.
Anybody observed the same behaviour? Before adjusting my priority accordingly, I would like to be sure that the sim is handling correctly the Totem of Quaking Earth.

My config file:
### Saved by v1.9.0.0 of EnhSimGUI

config_version                  1.9.0.0
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6.00
report_count                    80
threads                         1
combat_length_rng_factor        0.35
min_lag                         100
max_lag                         200
simulate_mana                   1
cast_sr_on_cooldown             0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           80
ep_crit_rating                  40
ep_hit_rating                   40
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 40
ep_armor_penetration_rating     40
ep_spellpower                   46
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         600
ep_spirit                       40
ep_mp5                          40

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1250
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         12
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              FS
rotation_priority5              SS_0
rotation_priority6              ES_SS
rotation_priority7              SS
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              ES
rotation_priority10             LL_QE
rotation_priority11             LL
rotation_priority12             LS

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10643
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1
mixology                        1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            troll
mh_speed                        2.7
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.9
oh_dps                          196.5
mh_crit                         40.53
oh_crit                         40.53
mh_hit                          11.92
oh_hit                          11.92
mh_expertise_rating             139
oh_expertise_rating             139
ap                              4633
melee_haste                     14.35
armor_penetration               13.15
str                             147
agi                             1190
int                             665
spi                             170
spellpower                      1390
spell_crit                      29.52
spell_hit                       14.91
spell_haste                     11.04
max_mana                        14091
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       fist
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        45286
trinket2                        45931

totem                           totem_of_quaking_earth

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    flame_shock
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
improved_fire_nova              2/2
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5
And the output:
EnhSim version 1.9.0.0

................................................................................

MH:
miss                1122162        9.07%
dodge               1211           0.01%
glancing            2970732        24.01%
hit                 1431237        11.57%
crit                6849315        55.35%
average ap          8107.08        
clip                0              0.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          14.91%
procs/swings        13.74%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               418            0.01%
hit                 1641767        41.71%
crit                2293517        58.27%
average ap          8107.35        

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               181            0.01%
hit                 811708         41.71%
crit                1134229        58.28%
average ap          8088.63        

OH:
miss                1164534        9.09%
dodge               1283           0.01%
glancing            3073951        24.00%
hit                 1482344        11.57%
crit                7086141        55.32%
average ap          8111.32        
clip                0              0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 8928123        56.34%
crit                6919439        43.66%
average sp          3033.46        

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               188            0.01%
hit                 812629         41.76%
crit                1133120        58.23%
average ap          8124.86        

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1012709        56.42%
crit                782323         43.58%
average sp          3035.97        

Flame Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 493493         56.30%
crit                383111         43.70%
average sp          3035.90        
dots hit            2961415        56.30%
dots crit           2298209        43.70%
average dot sp      3035.90        

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               240            0.01%
hit                 942515         41.71%
crit                1316862        58.28%
average ap          8078.25        

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1471830        56.32%
crit                1141371        43.68%
average sp          3040.30        

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3145048        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%
average sp          3041.34        

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2150308        23.97%
hit                 5788742        64.53%
crit                1031614        11.50%
average ap          8120.99        

Magma Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4580652        56.35%
crit                3548033        43.65%
average sp          3038.10        

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 48.58

flurry uptime                  93.73%
unleashed rage uptime          100.00%
elemental devastation uptime   79.75%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.77%
oh enchant uptime              36.94%
searing totem uptime           0.00%
magma totem uptime             88.03%

trinket1 uptime                18.52%
trinket2 uptime                20.62%
racial uptime                  6.88%
totem uptime                   91.71%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 18.10     8.80%
replenishment       42.19     20.52%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 9.06      4.41%
shamanistic rage    136.23    66.26%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2531.73   31.38%    83.94
windfury            948.46    11.75%    6.56
flametongue         604.51    7.49%     52.83
stormstrike         447.12    5.54%     6.49      35.74     15.39%
lava lash           340.22    4.22%     7.53      20.75     8.94%
magma totem         585.02    7.25%     2.79      51.94     22.37%
earth shock         571.18    7.08%     5.98      38.67     16.65%
flame shock         406.24    5.03%     2.92      17.83     7.68%
lightning bolt      956.57    11.86%    8.71      63.82     27.49%
lightning shield    346.34    4.29%     1.16      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       331.30    4.11%     0.41      3.43      1.48%

DPS                 8068.70
MPS                 232.18
MP2min              27861.30
MRPS                209.96
Out of mana time    0.17%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 52.41s
simulation speed: 343472x
Edit:
I noticed that the totem uptime was 91.71%. Is it this value realistic with the current priority?

Last edited by Quaglia : 11/25/09 at 12:51 PM.
#2748SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I've added the magma totem ticks option. Its very interesting, setting this to a non zero value or even just in v1.9.0.0 moving MT higher up the priority list results in a significant MT boost. This will be due to higher uptime.

V1.9.0.1 will be out soon.
#2749SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Saidbeastie
I dunno if this is useful-- maybe not. But the way I handle magma totem while I'm in an actual raid is such:

If all my abilities are on cooldown, and lightning shield is up with a high number of stacks, I refresh magma totem regardless of how much time it has left (using my better judgment of course; I don't see myself refreshing the totem at over 5 seconds). The way I see it, the DPS loss from a couple reset swing timers is made up for by magma totem being up nearly 100% of the time, which for me it is.

I think the way to model this in the sim would be to add another rotation item called, say, MT_<5 that could be added into the bottom of the priority queue.

I obviously don't know how effective my own method is without the simulator to tell, but I think going into 3.3 it'll be necessary to model a more robust technique with magma totem.
#2750SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Personally, I refresh it at 10 seconds or less when I have a free GCD.

The option that Levva has integrated in 1.9.0.1 will allow you to tell the sim the minimum number of ticks remaining on the current Magma Totem before it will start looking for a GCD under the priority list structure to refresh the totem. Since you like 5 seconds that gives you a choice between either 3 ticks (6 seconds) or 2 ticks (4 seconds). Probably better to stick to 3 ticks, though, as that will more likely represent your current behavior.
#2751SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
ziff
Looking at the graphs above, it seems pretty consistent that EnhSim is hiting some Haste spikes when haste is increased. Or let me be clearer, from those graphs haste is plateauing for wide ranges where you would hope it would have some kind of positive impact on our dps. I'd be interested on seeing which damage components are the main culpret here, just so that we can verify that the code is working correctly for those components.

Leevva, could you post another graph with a breakdown of each damage component for one of the abovee simulation runs? Maybe we can see some outlier that would require some further investigation.

Last edited by ziff : 11/26/09 at 12:39 AM.
#2752SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by ziff View Post
Looking at the graphs above, it seems pretty consistent that EnhSim is hiting some Haste spikes when haste is increased. Or let me be clearer, from those graphs haste is plateauing for wide ranges where you would hope it would have some kind of positive impact on our dps. I'd be interested on seeing which damage components are the main culpret here, just so that we can verify that the code is working correctly for those components.

Levva, could you post another graph with a breakdown of each damage component for one of the abovee simulation runs? Maybe we can see some outlier that would require some further investigation.
I only cut n paste the data others prepared and stuck it in Excel to produce the graph. I'm sure that Extenze could see how feasible this is to add output of different data.
#2753SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Originally Posted by Saidbeastie View Post
If all my abilities are on cooldown, and lightning shield is up with a high number of stacks, I refresh magma totem regardless of how much time it has left (using my better judgment of course; I don't see myself refreshing the totem at over 5 seconds). The way I see it, the DPS loss from a couple reset swing timers is made up for by magma totem being up nearly 100% of the time, which for me it is.
Responding to this point at the request of another shaman.

Casting any INSTANT cast spell, as a shaman, does NOT reset your swing timer. Casting a spell with a cast time when you have any charges of Maelstrom Weapon active does NOT reset your swing timer. When there are any charges of Maelstrom Weapon active, if the cast timer intersects with the swing timer then that swing simple does not occur, ie the swing timer is clipped not reset.
#2754SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Lchaim
Is there any way we could get an option to cast CL instead of LB if additional targets > n? (or just > 0)
It seems that this would give more accurate data for AoE situations.

e: I specifically mean that if there are adds 25% of the fight, you would probably cast CL 25% of the fight, not 100%.
#2755SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by Lchaim View Post
Is there any way we could get an option to cast CL instead of LB if additional targets > n? (or just > 0)
It seems that this would give more accurate data for AoE situations.

e: I specifically mean that if there are adds 25% of the fight, you would probably cast CL 25% of the fight, not 100%.
Good idea. I've added that as an issue.

For those that haven't yet seen v1.9.1.2-beta is now available at EnhSim I'd like testers to test all the changes please and report back things tested and proved working as much as reporting bugs. We'd like to get this version to the point we are confident of calling it a release not just a beta.
#2756SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Rouncer
Well, we can't call it a release until Blizzard pushes 3.3 anyway. Speaking of which, if anyone has access to the PTR (mine is throwing errors at me when I try to patch to the latest version) would they mind testing the interaction of Elemental Focus (the talent) and Fire Nova. Last I checked, Fire Nova could proc Clearcasting from the talent but it didn't get the mana reduction nor would it use a charge when cast while it was active.
#2757SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I very strongly suspect we only have until the 8th ie: 11 days so I'd like to get it ready for then as there has been a lot of changes and we need some stability checks to verify all is well.

Personally I'm also spending a lot of time on Rawr as well as EnhSim so personally I really can't put in the time to get EnhSim tested. It is better anyway if someone who isn't coding does the quality control checks. As it is a lot easier to verify your tests as you are not bound by the assumptions the programmer made and thus would test things he may not have thought of.

If some volunteers could help we can provide a full list of changes that require testing and sign off. Rouncer could you possibly co-ordinate this task given that you aren't one of the programmers?
#2758SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Jessamy
My character config, enhsim v1.9.0.0-beta. 1000 hours per sim, 5 runs per increment, 1% (0.01) increment step size. 1.53 mean stdev.



Same setup, 10000 hours per sim. 0.48 mean stdev.


Last edited by Jessamy : 11/30/09 at 11:31 AM.
#2759SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Extenze
I ran the usual 10 sims pers RNG, and took the average of the 10 to get these values. 5k hour simulations
Edit: I could've sworn I've typed this in, but I got these numbers by running 10 sims per RNG change, and averaging them otherwise the graph would've been monstrous.

 whiteWFFTSSLLMTESFSLBLSSWtotalDPS
02737.021026.85612.07437.61342.88521.98584.07317.76962.48316.12334.478193.3
0.052747.281029.42613.73437.77342.77521.83584.26317.72965.02316.8329.078205.66
0.12755.451031.6615.11437.97342.74521.92584.53317.64967.22317.39316.038207.6
0.152758.491032.46615.65438.16342.88522.1584.76317.67967.97317.79308.448206.36
0.22760.311033.01615.96438.24343522.23584.84317.68968.44317.93304.68206.24
0.252761.021033.23616.11438.22342.9522.21584.88317.66968.78317.99304.018207.01
0.32761.741033.46616.2438.18342.89522.08584.83317.64968.95318.06308.068212.09
0.352762.261033.65616.26438.17342.8522.11584.92317.61969.09318.05311.178216.08
0.42762.51033.81616.28438.18342.79522.01584.91317.62969.21318.09310.38215.69
0.452762.661033.84616.35438.24342.85522.12584.81317.61969.24318.16308.378214.24
0.52763.051033.8616.44438.27342.88522.17584.85317.63969.3318.18306.728213.29
0.552762.911033.75616.39438.27342.91522.09584.94317.64969.32318.19306.278212.67
0.62763.131033.99616.43438.25342.81522.11584.9317.63969.41318.2308.148214.99
0.652763.361034.16616.43438.26342.8521.99584.89317.63969.48318.24309.968217.19
0.72763.611034.27616.51438.26342.83521.99584.82317.57969.41318.21309.458216.93
0.752763.781034.32616.51438.23342.84522.12584.89317.63969.42318.31308.398216.42
0.82763.61034.04616.48438.27342.86522.13584.77317.63969.42318.32307.368214.89
0.852763.781034.33616.49438.21342.84522.04584.82317.66969.42318.26306.918214.77
0.92763.871034.32616.5438.17342.82522.08584.96317.6969.53318.28308.148216.26
0.952763.781034.33616.55438.23342.85522.11584.83317.63969.49318.4309.398217.57
12762.931033.81616.38438.25342.83522.05584.96317.61969.31318.26309.218215.59

There's a graph in my spreadsheet, but I don't really see any usable detail in it.

Subtracting 0.00 rng values from the 1.0 values you can see what changes the most.
whiteWFFTSSLLMTESFSLBLSSWtotalDPS
25.916.964.310.63-0.060.070.89-0.156.822.14-25.2622.28

edit2: Here's the spreadsheet I used, containing all the raw data.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/816613/attacksOut_me_5k.ods

Last edited by Extenze : 11/29/09 at 8:31 PM.
#2760SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
I was investigating an issue reported by inconsistencies in Rawr.Enhance & EnhSim with [Talisman of Volatile Power] now it turns out there were bugs in both programs. It did throw up an interesting issue what precisely constitutes "spell damage" and "spell casts" as far as special effect triggers are concerned. A special effect trigger is something that initiates a proc - eg: Set bonus LL triggering Quaking Earth, or spell cast triggering trinket.

Currently EnhSim has the following definition for spell cast...
  public pShockCast,
  public pLightningBoltCast,
  public pLightningOverloadCast,
  public pChainLightningCast,
  public pLavaBurstCast,
  public pLightningShieldCast,
  public pFireNovaCast
Now I note no mention of things like magma totem drops which are spell casts, and apparently do trigger the talisman shouldn't these be included?

We also have the related Spell Damage...
  public pShockDamage,
  public pLightningBoltDamage,
  public pLightningOverloadDamage,
  public pChainLightningDamage,
  public pLavaBurstDamage,
  public pFireNovaDamage,
  public pLightningShieldDamage
The sim has no concept of separating non periodic damage, periodic damage and spell damage. I suspect we should make a separation between them. So that we can have effects proc on any spell damage (including periodic damage such as FS Dot ticks and Magma/searing totem pulses), periodic damage (FS Dot ticks and magma/searing totem) and non-periodic damage (as above).

I may be wrong but doesn't most trinkets that proc off spell damage also proc off magma totem damage & FS Dot ticks?

Whilst I'm musing on these things, where does Flametongue weapon imbue damage come into this? Should it be treated as spell damage? Does it proc things that come under the spell damage list? If so then the Sim is ignoring this source of spell damage at present.
#2761SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3stassart
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
I may be wrong but doesn't most trinkets that proc off spell damage also proc off magma totem damage & FS Dot ticks?

Whilst I'm musing on these things, where does Flametongue weapon imbue damage come into this? Should it be treated as spell damage? Does it proc things that come under the spell damage list? If so then the Sim is ignoring this source of spell damage at present.
I believe spell damage trinket procs fall into these categories:

1) Procs on harmful spell cast
Example: [Talisman of Volatile Power]

2) Procs on any spell cast
Example: [Eye of the Broodmother]

3) Procs on non-periodic crits
Example: [Reign of the Dead]

4) Procs on periodic damage
Example: [Extract of Necromantic Power]

I do not know if Muradin's Spyglass (ICC-10) is initial cast only or periodic damage also, if it is both then it adds another category.

I would guess that Extract of Necromantic Power procs off magma totem damage, but I have not tested it. I would guess that a flametongue weapon damage (Flametongue Attack) crit would proc Reign of the Dead, but I have not tested it.
#2762SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3
Edited onundefined
Levva
Originally Posted by stassart View Post
I believe spell damage trinket procs fall into these categories:

1) Procs on harmful spell cast
Example: [Talisman of Volatile Power]

2) Procs on any spell cast
Example: [Eye of the Broodmother]

3) Procs on non-periodic crits
Example: [Reign of the Dead]

4) Procs on periodic damage
Example: [Extract of Necromantic Power]

I do not know if Muradin's Spyglass (ICC-10) is initial cast only or periodic damage also, if it is both then it adds another category.

I would guess that Extract of Necromantic Power procs off magma totem damage, but I have not tested it. I would guess that a flametongue weapon damage (Flametongue Attack) crit would proc Reign of the Dead, but I have not tested it.
V1.9.1.3 - not released yet. Uses the following for those...

1) Procs on harmful spell cast - pSpellCast - was pSpellDamage in v1.9.1.2
Example: [Talisman of Volatile Power]

2) Procs on any spell cast - not currently implemented!!!
Example: [Eye of the Broodmother]

3) Procs on non-periodic crits - pSpellCrit and pFlametongueCrit
Example: [Reign of the Dead]

4) Procs on periodic damage - not currently implemented!!!
Example: [Extract of Necromantic Power]

None of these trinkets are getting any proc effect from either a Magma totem drop (spell cast) or Magma totem pulse (spell damage? spell crit?).

You also have trinkets in patch 3.3 like [Dislodged Foreign Object] which has proc of "Your harmful spells have a chance to increase your spell power by 105 and an additional 105 every 2 sec for 20 sec."

Which sounds like spell cast too but who knows (not exactly a Enhance trinket anyway so not a big deal).

So questions are

1) Does periodic spell damage trigger trinkets with "on spell damage"?

2) What does Magma totem damage count as? Periodic? Non periodic? Nothing - doesn't trigger anything?

3) What does Flametongue damage count as? Melee damage? Spell damage? Neither its a special case and works on trinket by trinket basis?

EnhSim currently behaves as

1) no periodic damage triggers exist

2) magma totem doesn't trigger anything

3) treated as a special case on trinket by trinket basis. eg: for [Talisman of Volatile Power] flametongue damage isn't in the sim as triggering this effect.

Last edited by Levva : 11/30/09 at 11:20 AM.
#2763SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3zimeron
Originally Posted by Levva View Post
1) Does periodic spell damage trigger trinkets with "on spell damage"?

2) What does Magma totem damage count as? Periodic? Non periodic? Nothing - doesn't trigger anything?
1) Example of an item that is worded this way?

2) Magma, Searing, and the Fire elemental's damage is considered nothing, they don't proc anything for you. You can get a proc off the spell cast of the totem though.
#2764SourcePosted onPatch 2.4.3Levva
Originally Posted by zimeron View Post
1) Example of an item that is worded this way?

2) Magma, Searing, and the Fire elemental's damage is considered nothing, they don't proc anything for you. You can get a proc off the spell cast of the totem though.
Muradin's Spyglass which is
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=50345
Equip "Each time you deal spell damage to an opponent, you gain 20 spell power for the next 10 sec, stacking up to 10 times."

NB. You'll need to follow the link - EJ forum mangles the link trying to make it a www . wowhead . com item instead of a ptr . wowhead . com item.